@VisCreed To their credit, the 3 things you mention are all true. it really IS slippery because it's wet, and the water really DOES act as a lubricant, and the temperature really HAS an effect on how wet it is. None of them got the more fundamental principle, true enough, but why should an amateur be expected to? You can't chide people because not everyone is balls deep in physics.
@Slampropp Yeah okay I was being an asshole but still. Temperature has nothing to do with (unless you associate it with the temperature increased on the ice through pressure acting on it thus making a liquid layer ontop of it allowing you to "slide".
Im pretty sure Derrick said the "slipperyness" of ce stays the same through the climate change.
@VisCreed In my experience, trying to walk on skating rinks in the spring when the ice is starting to melt away and is covered by a film of water, it's a LOT harder to stay on your feet compared to the middle of winter. Now, I don't have any actual data on this, but it makes sense when you think about it; If a little lubrication can reduce the friction a bit, adding more should reduce it further (to a point.)
@VisCreed No doubt about that! :) But there's a Swiss flag averywhere... i didn't count less than four... five with the lampion. Very swiss... in the middle of Vancouver (i guess) :)
The point it the H20 is very special in it's nature. Most of other molecules are in solid state more dense, but ice is less dense than liquid water (that's why it also floats on water). So when you are pressing on it, you are causing it to be more dense.
I am glad to say I am closer than the people you have on these videos, (for example, in this video, I knew there was a thin layer of water due to pressure), but I am not 100% there. Happy to learn and happy to be close.
I love how people just continue to spout their bad science, even when they don't know what they are talking about. Saying, "I don't know." is one of the greatest things you can, scientifically.
so, if the ice was REALLY cold, would it still be able to have the watery layer from the pressure or is there a point where it's too cold for the effect to be observed
@imamadmad1 turns out the pressure effect only seems to predominate above -3C however other effects maintain the watery layer. Check out the link in the description for more.
this is a common misconception, the pressure exerted by the skates causes a tiny change in the melting point which is irrelevent in cold temp where the ice is still slippery event though it is way below the freezing point and doesn't create no layer of water, this is bullshit. you should really check your stuff before going and asking people as if you're much smarter and they are stupid. a much more likely exp. is that the rubbing of the skates with the ice creates heat which melts the ice.
When we apply pressure to the ice causing the molecules to come close to each other, shouldn't that increase the melting point because now more force has to be applied to break the inter-molecular forces and convert the ice to water. Also, from this video, can this also be concluded that objects with greater mass will find the ice more slippery than objects with a smaller mass because the greater mass object applies more pressure to the ice than the smaller mass object?
This video is misleading as it doesn't state that this is only one theory of why ice is slippery. It is also now widely believed that the molecules at the surface layer are less bonded and there for remain free to retain their liquid state, even at very low temperatures.
Damn, I was sure it was the friction of the skate on the ice that turned a very small amount of the ice underneath the skate to become water and turning back to ice when the friction stops(skate leaves the ice). Increasing pressure means higher temperature though, so this makes sense.
@GokuHyperbeam69 After reading some article in physics today from 2005, I indeed found out I was correct. Pressure is the cause of slipperyness at around melting point and down to about -3.5degrees celcius, below that, friction(melting the ice) is the main reason for ice's slipperyness...(in addition to a smaller layer of water that is allways on top of ice even at -24degrees celcius, wich at it's thinnest is 12nm thick)
It has long been believed that ice is slippery because the pressure of an object in contact with it causes a thin layer to melt. For example, the blade of an ice skate, exerting pressure on the ice, melts a thin layer, providing lubrication between the ice and the blade.
@henkeman0 This explanation has come into doubt with the proposal that ice molecules in contact with air cannot properly bond with the molecules of the mass of ice beneath (and thus are free to move like molecules of liquid water). These molecules remain in a semiliquid state, providing lubrication regardless of pressure against the ice exerted by any object
@1veritasium That means the ice is cold enough to refreeze water that melted from the surface.
Man no 1 in my university ( not even teachers ) were able to give me a good answer. Im glad you see physics as a thing to understand instead of a rule.
You do not need a melting effect to create the slickness. The pressure explanation makes no sense - very light objects also skate across ice. Much heavier objects actually have more trouble. What reduces the friction between skate and ice is the ease with which the upper most layer of ice tears away as the skate passes over it. A much heavier object actually has trouble because it must tear away deeper into the ice structure, and into more tightly bound ice, to glide.
The thin layer of water explanation is not correct per se - you do not create a fluid water effect that decreases friction. It has to do with the fact that the upper most layer of ice is not as well bound, and easily tears off as the skate passes over it. When temperatures are extremely cold, the ice is bound better, and you do not move as freely over the ice. The warmer the temperature, the less well bound the upper most layer of the ice is
@sexyjazzy666 aha - this has to do with the crystalline structure of ice and how it is less dense than water. Under high pressure it is tougher to form that less dense crystalline solid.
This one's quite tricky - many chemists and physicists have misconceptions. It even came up in your video - ice rinks still work well at very cold temps. The pressure is insufficient to drop the freezing point below ambient. What about that?
In Canada the temperature can be -30% c. The ice is still slippery for skates but water will never form. I think it has to do more with the density of the ice and low surface friction of the expansion of water when it freezes. Plastic sheets can also be used for skating and there is no water involved.
@1veritasium The components of skating are smooth surface and lubricant. Ice gives the smooth surface and the pressure of the skates on the ice causes the ice to melt providing the lubricant (I didn't know that). Artificial 'ice' consists of interlocking squares of white plastic, which has been sprayed with a mixture of silicone and water. The plastic provide the smooth surface and the silicone / water provides the lubricant. Thanks for the video Veritasium and keeping me thinking / reading.
yeah, heard that it was not because the ice melts, but, instead, because the water molecules on the top layers are unstable. and this happens because the one underneath are able to form hydrogen bridges with other water molecules, but the tops ones don't do this
@credico It depends on the pressure and it only applies to water in this case (and other stuff with density anomaly). I think the ideal temperatur for hockey has other reasons then slippery.
can someone explain to me exactly - is it the pressure puttign energy into the ice causing the temperature to rise which makes the layer of water, or is that the pressure displaces the molecules and changes there state into a liquid even though their temperature would suggest they should be a solid (At least for a very small layer on the top)?
@Dixavd look at the phase diagram of water. if you increases the pressure, ice melts into water. both of your answers should be correct, because you need energy in order to displace molecules, it is given by pressure or temperature.. It happens due to the special ice structure which has a lower density then water at standard state. temperature is not the only one what determines a phase.
@ChaosN I looked at some phase diagrams (although I have not gotton to that point in education to properly understand exactly what was beign described, I tried to understand as best I could what it meant). Is this correct:
The pressure and the temperature determine the phase of an object. Because of the shape of forming ice it is less dense than that of the liquid water at a slightly higher temperature.Thus adding pressure will create the same conditions for a liquid as with higher temp?
@Dixavd your first statement is correct. the rest depends on the conditions (temperature and pressure) where you use your statement, but for standard conditions its correct. you dont really create the same conditions, bu tone of the phases will have less energy and so is prefered thermodynamicly.
I believe with (extremely) higher pressure (unneccessary to know for normal people in normal life) the density of ice increases again and you get different ice forms (different crystal structure) :)
@ChaosN ok thankyou - reading through some phase diagrams and information pertaining to state of matter and information specific to water, along with your help, I think I undertsnad it now.
Here's a question: Would an object with a very low density (such as an inflated raft with nobody on it) experience any slipperiness if it were pushed across fully-frozen ice? If so, is it from the pressure it's exerting on the ice? Or would it be something else?
Hey der , there's no perfectly agreed reason of why the ice is slippery , but this one is the most widely accepted .
And for the question , it will slide but not for lond, because the friction would melt the upper layer of ice and decrease the friction and hence it slips.
@zebruh Since posting this video, I have been informed by a very reliable source that surface chemists have recently come to the conclusion that the surface layer or two of water molecules in ice are naturally quite 'liquid-like', so although it's true increasing the pressure decreases the melting point, it is not the only reason ice is slippery.
@1veritasium In fact, the extra pressure that is applied barely decreases the melting point at all. Nearly all of the layer of water is from the boundary layer of water that is formed at the surface.
@1veritasium I'm glad you pointed out the liquid-like structure of the top layer of ice, because I saw in a video back in middle school that said that "the ice melts when your on top of it" theory was a bit of a misconception and it was rather the flimsy, unsupported molecules on the top of the ice that determined its slipperidity
ahaha that girl is like cause of the ratio. ahaha
dsass600 1 hour ago
"Because its wet", "lubricating oil" ,"temperature"
Its frightening how people can be stupid!
Im 16 and in the foundation math group but even I knew that it was due to pressure!
No faith in humans
VisCreed 2 days ago
@VisCreed To their credit, the 3 things you mention are all true. it really IS slippery because it's wet, and the water really DOES act as a lubricant, and the temperature really HAS an effect on how wet it is. None of them got the more fundamental principle, true enough, but why should an amateur be expected to? You can't chide people because not everyone is balls deep in physics.
In conclusion, don't be an asshole.
Slampropp 2 days ago
@Slampropp Yeah okay I was being an asshole but still. Temperature has nothing to do with (unless you associate it with the temperature increased on the ice through pressure acting on it thus making a liquid layer ontop of it allowing you to "slide".
Im pretty sure Derrick said the "slipperyness" of ce stays the same through the climate change.
VisCreed 1 day ago
@VisCreed In my experience, trying to walk on skating rinks in the spring when the ice is starting to melt away and is covered by a film of water, it's a LOT harder to stay on your feet compared to the middle of winter. Now, I don't have any actual data on this, but it makes sense when you think about it; If a little lubrication can reduce the friction a bit, adding more should reduce it further (to a point.)
Slampropp 1 day ago
Swiss Flag in the Background! :)
Does anybody know why? Just wondering.
Fam0e 1 week ago
@Fam0e Because Switzerland is AWESOME!!
VisCreed 2 days ago
@VisCreed No doubt about that! :) But there's a Swiss flag averywhere... i didn't count less than four... five with the lampion. Very swiss... in the middle of Vancouver (i guess) :)
Maybe the inkeeper is swiss?
Fam0e 2 days ago
The point it the H20 is very special in it's nature. Most of other molecules are in solid state more dense, but ice is less dense than liquid water (that's why it also floats on water). So when you are pressing on it, you are causing it to be more dense.
nafativedec 1 week ago
I am glad to say I am closer than the people you have on these videos, (for example, in this video, I knew there was a thin layer of water due to pressure), but I am not 100% there. Happy to learn and happy to be close.
jamesahibbard 1 week ago
ratio of ah... trying not to stupid to umm... being stupid
waterproofcat1 1 week ago
I love how people just continue to spout their bad science, even when they don't know what they are talking about. Saying, "I don't know." is one of the greatest things you can, scientifically.
dgtlrn 1 week ago
"duuuh uuuhhhh ratio off uhhhhh"
XionixZTV 1 week ago
10 yrd run-up sliding 60 meters... Confused much?
Liqtor 2 weeks ago
The length of the molecules does it.
SnaipaSpottage 2 weeks ago
GO CANUCKS!
snojunkie777 1 month ago
Uh, the ratio
WuggyFoot 1 month ago
thank you for the lesson:]
GtheJAR 1 month ago
so, if the ice was REALLY cold, would it still be able to have the watery layer from the pressure or is there a point where it's too cold for the effect to be observed
imamadmad1 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos 3
@imamadmad1 turns out the pressure effect only seems to predominate above -3C however other effects maintain the watery layer. Check out the link in the description for more.
1veritasium 1 month ago 4
this is a common misconception, the pressure exerted by the skates causes a tiny change in the melting point which is irrelevent in cold temp where the ice is still slippery event though it is way below the freezing point and doesn't create no layer of water, this is bullshit. you should really check your stuff before going and asking people as if you're much smarter and they are stupid. a much more likely exp. is that the rubbing of the skates with the ice creates heat which melts the ice.
TheRightNeutrino 1 month ago
Comment removed
dgtlrn 1 week ago
When we apply pressure to the ice causing the molecules to come close to each other, shouldn't that increase the melting point because now more force has to be applied to break the inter-molecular forces and convert the ice to water. Also, from this video, can this also be concluded that objects with greater mass will find the ice more slippery than objects with a smaller mass because the greater mass object applies more pressure to the ice than the smaller mass object?
sherrykhan11 1 month ago
i just learned this in chemistry :P along with phase diagrams -_-
lilaznnerd69 2 months ago
this makes me scream at the screen
darealodguy 2 months ago
This video is misleading as it doesn't state that this is only one theory of why ice is slippery. It is also now widely believed that the molecules at the surface layer are less bonded and there for remain free to retain their liquid state, even at very low temperatures.
GideonHectorMcLean 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Damn, I was sure it was the friction of the skate on the ice that turned a very small amount of the ice underneath the skate to become water and turning back to ice when the friction stops(skate leaves the ice). Increasing pressure means higher temperature though, so this makes sense.
TheNoorac 2 months ago
@TheNoorac That doesn't make sense because ice is slippery regardless of skates
GokuHyperbeam69 1 month ago in playlist More videos from 1veritasium
@GokuHyperbeam69 Yeah, uhm, the skates were just an example.
TheNoorac 1 month ago
@GokuHyperbeam69 After reading some article in physics today from 2005, I indeed found out I was correct. Pressure is the cause of slipperyness at around melting point and down to about -3.5degrees celcius, below that, friction(melting the ice) is the main reason for ice's slipperyness...(in addition to a smaller layer of water that is allways on top of ice even at -24degrees celcius, wich at it's thinnest is 12nm thick)
TheNoorac 1 month ago
where in sydney is that? looks like an awesome ice rink! i tend to go to the one in norwest (sydney ice arena)
AznS0ulja 2 months ago
This guy is trolling hard!
heyandy889 3 months ago
@1veritasium why doesn't the fish dies when the water is frozen?
HarunVizcarra 3 months ago
its simple , water expands as it freezes, and it compacts as it heats up
when u "push" against the ice, u are trying to compact it , making it liquid .....
its cus when water freezes its molecules dont clump together like other substances, instead they form a crystal structure and expand in volume.
sidewaysfcs0718 3 months ago
I love your videos but.... Vancouver? Really? Why not Toronto or Edmonton!?
Baboonaiih 3 months ago
@Baboonaiih I'm from Vancouver.
1veritasium 3 months ago 9
@1veritasium Oh I see how it is....
Baboonaiih 3 months ago
@1veritasium Your Canadian ?!?!?!?!?! you gotta come by hamilton and teach my physics class for a day, my teacher watches your videos toooo!!
TheCrAziEsTSKiiLL 2 months ago
It has long been believed that ice is slippery because the pressure of an object in contact with it causes a thin layer to melt. For example, the blade of an ice skate, exerting pressure on the ice, melts a thin layer, providing lubrication between the ice and the blade.
henkeman0 4 months ago
Comment removed
henkeman0 4 months ago
Comment removed
henkeman0 4 months ago
Comment removed
henkeman0 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@henkeman0 This explanation has come into doubt with the proposal that ice molecules in contact with air cannot properly bond with the molecules of the mass of ice beneath (and thus are free to move like molecules of liquid water). These molecules remain in a semiliquid state, providing lubrication regardless of pressure against the ice exerted by any object
henkeman0 4 months ago
But why does the ice stick to our fingers if we touch it?
GeorgTsabou 4 months ago
@GeorgTsabou That means the ice is cold enough to refreeze water that melted from the surface.
1veritasium 4 months ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
@1veritasium That means the ice is cold enough to refreeze water that melted from the surface.
Man no 1 in my university ( not even teachers ) were able to give me a good answer. Im glad you see physics as a thing to understand instead of a rule.
Man u rock
FailDrummer 2 months ago
Comment removed
TheCrAziEsTSKiiLL 2 months ago
@1veritasium had the same question!!! thanks!
fcoalvaradov 3 days ago in playlist Science Experiments!
Richard Feynman answers: ?v=wMFPe-DwULM#t=152s
UniqueCosmicDust 5 months ago
You do not need a melting effect to create the slickness. The pressure explanation makes no sense - very light objects also skate across ice. Much heavier objects actually have more trouble. What reduces the friction between skate and ice is the ease with which the upper most layer of ice tears away as the skate passes over it. A much heavier object actually has trouble because it must tear away deeper into the ice structure, and into more tightly bound ice, to glide.
dmbeaster 5 months ago
The thin layer of water explanation is not correct per se - you do not create a fluid water effect that decreases friction. It has to do with the fact that the upper most layer of ice is not as well bound, and easily tears off as the skate passes over it. When temperatures are extremely cold, the ice is bound better, and you do not move as freely over the ice. The warmer the temperature, the less well bound the upper most layer of the ice is
dmbeaster 5 months ago
i love this shit
i could be watching jersey shore like the rest of america
but id rather watch this,
jjtheslayer69 5 months ago 39
@jjtheslayer69 come at me bro
schr4nz 5 months ago
@schr4nz heeeeeeshAH!
jjtheslayer69 5 months ago
2:46
Who's a bad skater now, biatch?
PackOwolflets 6 months ago
Dude, are you from vancouver?
sandman132435 6 months ago
but why does the compresion decrees the melting point?
btw i love your video's <3
sexyjazzy666 6 months ago
@sexyjazzy666 aha - this has to do with the crystalline structure of ice and how it is less dense than water. Under high pressure it is tougher to form that less dense crystalline solid.
1veritasium 6 months ago
@1veritasium oh ok that makes sense thx :)
sexyjazzy666 6 months ago
@1veritasium but if it was cold enough, wouldnt the pressure difference be irrelevant?
bonalicious69 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sexyjazzy666 You can check out his regelation videos :P
RubixHEAVEN 5 months ago
I LOVE THIS CHANNEL if it was a girl id tap it 1st then marry it later.
mycrickethighlights2 6 months ago
This channel is so awesome!
kriztian0493 6 months ago
GO CANUCKS!!!!
TheCanucks100 6 months ago
This one's quite tricky - many chemists and physicists have misconceptions. It even came up in your video - ice rinks still work well at very cold temps. The pressure is insufficient to drop the freezing point below ambient. What about that?
trick58 6 months ago
In Canada the temperature can be -30% c. The ice is still slippery for skates but water will never form. I think it has to do more with the density of the ice and low surface friction of the expansion of water when it freezes. Plastic sheets can also be used for skating and there is no water involved.
Zooni2 6 months ago
@Zooni2 actually it seems there is a thin 'water-like' layer on ice even at very cold temperatures - quite counter-intuitive
1veritasium 6 months ago
Comment removed
Zooni2 6 months ago
@1veritasium The components of skating are smooth surface and lubricant. Ice gives the smooth surface and the pressure of the skates on the ice causes the ice to melt providing the lubricant (I didn't know that). Artificial 'ice' consists of interlocking squares of white plastic, which has been sprayed with a mixture of silicone and water. The plastic provide the smooth surface and the silicone / water provides the lubricant. Thanks for the video Veritasium and keeping me thinking / reading.
Zooni2 6 months ago
I think i love you..too bad I live in Sweden :]
Lawergren 6 months ago
Is that a Bauer total one stick I'm seeing. This guy looks liked he would be Dust at hockey
thefoxrider08 6 months ago
I love the lubrication analogy at 1:17
lubrication hahaha you know right?
Arghira 6 months ago
I've miss that one too...
I must stoop watching his videos...My self-esteem is getting pretty low
Arghira 6 months ago
@Arghira Keep your spirits up. It's not about having things right to begin with; but about having them right in the end. :-)
martinjbswift 6 months ago
yeah, heard that it was not because the ice melts, but, instead, because the water molecules on the top layers are unstable. and this happens because the one underneath are able to form hydrogen bridges with other water molecules, but the tops ones don't do this
ShamelessMCRFan 6 months ago
So that's why it's slippery? Hmm. What would happen if the ice did not "melt" beneath the blade? Does the ice liquify beneath the puck?
bclamore 6 months ago
wow, I had no idea of this, thanks allot for this video, really interesting.
dannes22 6 months ago
@credico
Thank you very much credico , the document was very informative and concise.
josyula547 6 months ago
another way to act as a smartass arond my friends =) thx
laury150 6 months ago
@credico
there's no perfectly agreed reason of why the ice is slippery , but this one is the most widely accepted ....
josyula547 6 months ago
@credico It depends on the pressure and it only applies to water in this case (and other stuff with density anomaly). I think the ideal temperatur for hockey has other reasons then slippery.
ChaosN 6 months ago
can someone explain to me exactly - is it the pressure puttign energy into the ice causing the temperature to rise which makes the layer of water, or is that the pressure displaces the molecules and changes there state into a liquid even though their temperature would suggest they should be a solid (At least for a very small layer on the top)?
Dixavd 6 months ago
@Dixavd look at the phase diagram of water. if you increases the pressure, ice melts into water. both of your answers should be correct, because you need energy in order to displace molecules, it is given by pressure or temperature.. It happens due to the special ice structure which has a lower density then water at standard state. temperature is not the only one what determines a phase.
ChaosN 6 months ago
@ChaosN I looked at some phase diagrams (although I have not gotton to that point in education to properly understand exactly what was beign described, I tried to understand as best I could what it meant). Is this correct:
The pressure and the temperature determine the phase of an object. Because of the shape of forming ice it is less dense than that of the liquid water at a slightly higher temperature.Thus adding pressure will create the same conditions for a liquid as with higher temp?
Dixavd 6 months ago
@Dixavd your first statement is correct. the rest depends on the conditions (temperature and pressure) where you use your statement, but for standard conditions its correct. you dont really create the same conditions, bu tone of the phases will have less energy and so is prefered thermodynamicly.
I believe with (extremely) higher pressure (unneccessary to know for normal people in normal life) the density of ice increases again and you get different ice forms (different crystal structure) :)
ChaosN 6 months ago
@ChaosN ok thankyou - reading through some phase diagrams and information pertaining to state of matter and information specific to water, along with your help, I think I undertsnad it now.
Dixavd 6 months ago
ur mother slides on my belly
newkid765 6 months ago
These are legit the best science videos I've seen on Youtube. Very informative yet extremely entertaining. I wish you were my science teacher haha
mikee1129 6 months ago
Very cool. (pun intended)
Here's a question: Would an object with a very low density (such as an inflated raft with nobody on it) experience any slipperiness if it were pushed across fully-frozen ice? If so, is it from the pressure it's exerting on the ice? Or would it be something else?
zebruh 6 months ago 4
@zebruh
Hey der , there's no perfectly agreed reason of why the ice is slippery , but this one is the most widely accepted .
And for the question , it will slide but not for lond, because the friction would melt the upper layer of ice and decrease the friction and hence it slips.
josyula547 6 months ago
@zebruh Since posting this video, I have been informed by a very reliable source that surface chemists have recently come to the conclusion that the surface layer or two of water molecules in ice are naturally quite 'liquid-like', so although it's true increasing the pressure decreases the melting point, it is not the only reason ice is slippery.
1veritasium 6 months ago 8
@1veritasium Perhaps update the video to reflect that?
(The lady at 0:55 seems to have had this, by the way. ;-) )
martinjbswift 6 months ago
@1veritasium In fact, the extra pressure that is applied barely decreases the melting point at all. Nearly all of the layer of water is from the boundary layer of water that is formed at the surface.
XxKillerIdiotxX 6 months ago
@1veritasium Hi, can you make pleas, a clip about radiometric dating ?, because I really don't understand it :).
Thank you and respect.
eminescinescu 6 months ago
@1veritasium I'm glad you pointed out the liquid-like structure of the top layer of ice, because I saw in a video back in middle school that said that "the ice melts when your on top of it" theory was a bit of a misconception and it was rather the flimsy, unsupported molecules on the top of the ice that determined its slipperidity
GokuHyperbeam69 1 month ago in playlist More videos from 1veritasium
awesome
KaoFamJK 7 months ago
Comment removed
QuikZStaR 7 months ago