Where was I during Bush's years? I am not blinded by partisanship like you are. I was a critic of Bush when he started spending like a drunken sailor. As a liberal, doesn't Obama have any policies that you don't like? Is everything he does "magic". Just for the numbers: Bush expanded the Govt by a record 700 billion which I hated. Obama's first year he blew that record away by over a trillion in new spending. Does this concern you? If not, it shows your ignorance.
The whole idea of a completely unregulated internet scares the crap out of me, simply because when unregulated, he who has the gold, makes the rules, Doesn't that scare you?
There is a R - Minnesota group that claims 3000 or so votes are not valid and many of them were cast by felons. The ballots will all be shredded soon, so if you have the political will and money to examine those votes, go ahead, but don't waste public money or time to do it. I have a job (this week anyway), so I can't be bothered to execute this justice.
Actually, it's pretty funny, cause each time Norm Coleman tried to delay seating Franken by demanding absentee ballots be counted, the wider the margin of victory between Franken and Coleman became.
@poisonapple16 yet, here you are. News flash, every election you didn't win wasn't stolen, every government program that doesn't benefit you specifically isn't socialism, and every black man you'd rather not be President wasn't born in Kenya.
Actually most of the shit you conservatives call socialism does benefit you, but you are too bellicose, shortsighted and ungrateful to say so. Do you miss insurance practices like rescission? Miss the unregulated markets that crashed us?
@GretchenDawntreader "most of the shit you conservatives call socialism does benefit you"...my mother taught me not to steal. Just because the government has the power to take from one (taxes) and give to another through whatever program doesn't make it right. The way most people think are "what's in it for me". I remember when the Dems were much more conservative...John F Kennedy quote "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
@FrankieJGP part of what you can do for your country is pay taxes so the big projects that only governments can do, get done. Unless you think it means grab a shovel and build your own interstate highway system. Taxes aren't stealing. Look at the darling of the teabaggers, Momma Grizley. For every $1 Alaska sent to the Feds, the Feds sent back like $6 in assistance, programs and infrastructure. Takes a lot of grizley gall to complain about that.
@GretchenDawntreader I actually couldn't agree more with your last comment! My point is that there are many people who look to government for WAY too much. I hope you would agree that government spending (that is approaching 50% of GDP) is much too big. When my household needs to cut it's budget, this is what I do. Politicians at all levels are doing the opposite, saying that spending is the solution. Unfortunately, our kids are in for a rude awakening. Friend,this is unethical and wrong!
@FrankieJGP you do realize of course that part of why the budget appears to have exploded is that Bush fought 2 wars off the books...and now we aren't pretending they are free anymore.
@GretchenDawntreader I absolutely agree with you...Bush was spending WAY too much!!! I didn't agree with his "stimulus" package either. Obama has took Bush's huge budgets and increased them dramatically. Where are those who bashed Bush for his budgets and are turning a blind eye to Obama's monster sized budgets. He is spending us into oblivion. I look at policies I believe in, not the party. This spending has to stop!
@FrankieJGP If you think "Bush was spending WAY too much!!!" then for those 8 years, where were you? Where was the teaparty? Where were the wailing women demanding "their country back?" Suddenly it's a travesty, suddenly the administration is a threat to democracy. All of a sudden.
That's why all the rhetoric about evil Obama rings hollow. You can say "Bush was also bad!" but everybody thought giving everything to the rich was brilliant! Until the economy collapsed. D'oh!
@FrankieJGP I'd love to hear your thoughts on allowing the tax cuts to the richest Americans to expire, which was written into the law by the GOP when they passed them 10 years ago. The law says, 10 years later, they expire. Dems aren't raising taxes, the GOP programmed that they expire this year. Dems don't have to do a thing. Thoughts? Dick Armey, darling of the teaparty, says "Dems are raising taxes."
@GretchenDawntreader (cont.) I do not want my children to pay for bailouts. Our deficit is now at 14 trillion. Our GDP is at 17 trillion.Does this concern you?
As for the tax increase...I am far from rich. The owner of the comany I work for is well to do. He started this business from the ground up (first 4 years he made little) with the understanding that he will reap the rewards. We need tax laws to promote this. Last time I checked, the poor don't hire. dems&rep need to work on this.
@FrankieJGP yeah it concerns me. First thing to do, cut the military budget in half. Stop paying billions in subsidies to the oil industry, as they post record profits. Stop paying farmers not to grow crops.
Then, then, talk about cutting food stamp programs and stuff. The tax cuts that the GOP wrote to expire, corresponded to a 10 year period of massive greed, the gap between poor and rich yawned, and then it all collapsed. The jobs chart went down and down, guess low taxes didn't help.
@FrankieJGP Google Image search "bikini graph" and note what happened when Bush left and Obama took over, and tell me that Obama is ruining the country.
Quote 1: "He started this business from the ground up (first 4 years he made little)"
Quote 2: "Last time I checked, the poor don't hire."
So, this owner of the company you work for who started with little money never hired anyone? How'd you get your job? You have to be rich to hire people? I thought "small business" was the banner of conservatives. Now we need to keep them rich? So they will trickle down on the "little people?" We had that experiment.
@GretchenDawntreader I said that he started and for 4 years he didn't make anything...at this time he worked with a partner literally 80+ hrs a week with the hope that one day he wouldn't have to do that. Over time he succeeded through persistence. Would he be willing to do that if he knew that most of his hard work would be taken by the govt. If I work o.t. and I knew that 70% of it will be gone, I probably wouldn't do it. "We cannot lift the poor by tearing down the rich" Abe lincoln
@FrankieJGP If I work o.t. and I knew that 70% of it will be gone, I probably wouldn't do it. "We cannot lift the poor by tearing down the rich" Abe lincoln
Absurd. Stop listening to talk radio and watch CSPAN. When the breaks expire (as the GOP wrote them to, even though they are painting it as the Dems raising taxes,) the rate will go from like 35% to 39.5%. Claims that 'omfg rich people will be unable to hire!' are just silly. Also, when Lincoln said that, the rich weren't billionaires
@GretchenDawntreader I looked at the bikini graph,and I really hate to burst this theory, but the increases are due to government jobs.(Census workers were hired, among others).Is this good?I'm very happy to see people work. However,if you've every studied econ,the private sector supports the public sector through taxation.(Yes there is a little trickle effect when govt workers are taxed).True growth comes from only the private sector.If my boss is taxed more,he may layoff people to cover this.
@FrankieJGP Saying the turnaround in jobs since the election is all due to the Census is also absurd. Exactly how many census workers do you think there are...
Also, on that graph, the recovery is about equal to the loss preceding it. If you are going to dismiss the recovery as unimportant, than the mirror-image loss has to also be unimportant. Yet they are painted as STAGGERING! Can't have it both ways. Both are significant, or both aren't. Jobs are jobs.
WASHINGTON–Congress seems increasingly reluctant to let taxes go up, even on wealthier Americans.Worried about the fragile economy and their own upcoming elections,a growing number of Dems are joining the rock-solid Republican opposition to Obama's plans to let some of the Bush administration's tax cuts expire"In my view this is no time to do anything that could be jarring to a fragile recovery," Rep. Gerry Connolly of Virginia, a Democrat.
@FrankieJGP again, Dems aren't letting anything expire. The LAW the GOP passed in reconciliation (which they blast Dems for using!) says they SHALL expire.
It is completely bogus to say the Dems are "letting" anything expire. Dems would have to pass another tax cut to extend them. And to say that Dems are "raising taxes" is flat out lying.
"Rock-solid" is a good way of describing the GOP role now in the Congress. A rock has no ideas, proposes no plans and offers no alternatives.
@GretchenDawntreader Is the GOP perfect in their policy? haha. Are the Dems? far from it. My ideological belief is that the feds need to be reigned in. Under this and past administrations it is so overreaching. BTW over 1m census jobs. 80k NEW IRS jobs.Govt doesnt create wealth,it takes it.True economic growth is from private sector. Govt can't create it. I hope you and I agree that this spending needs to stop and now!! I almost feel as if I know you.I appreciate this friendly talk!
@FrankieJGP some spending is useful. Stimulus dollars are driving some new clean energy industry in Ohio, where I live. I'd be happy for campaign finance reform (which no one in office wants to pass, so it will never pass,) kicking lobbyists out of the corridors of power, and serious cutting of pork. We wouldn't have so much spending on the military (more than the rest of the world combined) if every part was made in a different state on purpose.
@GretchenDawntreader Govt spending is useful within the proper role of govt.Everytime someone says "stimulus spending" I always think "kids and grandkids" spending.You've brought good points, but why is it that whenever there is a deficit there are those who always want to raise taxes without looking at spending.When it can be said that there is no waste in govt, then I could understand the increases.But there is too much waste.How much is enough?I also said b4,govt can't create wealth.
@FrankieJGP The thing is those tax cuts were never budgeted, it was assumed by Bushes economic team that America would grow out the lost tax revenue more than it had to increase public spending to support it. Those tax cuts thus left a large structural deficit and the side which want to renew them are not offing any cuts to offset it. So I would rather they expire than keep accruing debt, it's hard to call them an increase when they are temporary and were passed by reconciliation.
@FrankieJGP Not quite, public spending provides items that add to the value of any private product produced. A Ferrari is a nice thing in America with smooth tarred roads. Electricity without air pollution is nice too. Sure government spending was a minimum level of service is provided generally tend not improve general satisfaction, but it enables greater satisfaction from private production. We should do well to remember this.
@CmdrTobs I never once said there should be no govt spending...the obvious goes without saying.Should money go for roads?...etc. I think the answer is obvious. It should be remebered that private production is the only support of the things you mentioned.In this economy we need to encourage more investment.Over-taxation will discourage people from this.It seems to me that you think i've been pawned because you believe govt has all the answers. Things like the war on poverty really worked.
@FrankieJGP is the "war on poverty" a special program? You are right about private production, I don't disagree. I am just saying counter cyclical public spending is on projects can and does create wealth. An example is the hover dam, since 1986 it has surpassed its operating costs and since then it has provided electricity essentially at 0 cost.
Just the sort of project the private sector can't undertake but makes us wealthy.
Where was I during Bush's years? I am not blinded by partisanship like you are. I was a critic of Bush when he started spending like a drunken sailor. As a liberal, doesn't Obama have any policies that you don't like? Is everything he does "magic". Just for the numbers: Bush expanded the Govt by a record 700 billion which I hated. Obama's first year he blew that record away by over a trillion in new spending. Does this concern you? If not, it shows your ignorance.
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
The whole idea of a completely unregulated internet scares the crap out of me, simply because when unregulated, he who has the gold, makes the rules, Doesn't that scare you?
janiskfp 1 year ago
Democrats with balls! Give Alan Grayson his own talk show. We cannot let the tea party set the agenda.
batourey 1 year ago
Who's still retarded enough to support Coleman?
nordahl154 1 year ago
There is a R - Minnesota group that claims 3000 or so votes are not valid and many of them were cast by felons. The ballots will all be shredded soon, so if you have the political will and money to examine those votes, go ahead, but don't waste public money or time to do it. I have a job (this week anyway), so I can't be bothered to execute this justice.
DavidEdwardSchnell 1 year ago
Actually, it's pretty funny, cause each time Norm Coleman tried to delay seating Franken by demanding absentee ballots be counted, the wider the margin of victory between Franken and Coleman became.
Oops.
Yosho2k 1 year ago
Oh you certainly didn't waste any effort in stealing the election...
I can't take listening to this asshole....
poisonapple16 1 year ago
@poisonapple16 yet, here you are. News flash, every election you didn't win wasn't stolen, every government program that doesn't benefit you specifically isn't socialism, and every black man you'd rather not be President wasn't born in Kenya.
Actually most of the shit you conservatives call socialism does benefit you, but you are too bellicose, shortsighted and ungrateful to say so. Do you miss insurance practices like rescission? Miss the unregulated markets that crashed us?
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader "most of the shit you conservatives call socialism does benefit you"...my mother taught me not to steal. Just because the government has the power to take from one (taxes) and give to another through whatever program doesn't make it right. The way most people think are "what's in it for me". I remember when the Dems were much more conservative...John F Kennedy quote "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP part of what you can do for your country is pay taxes so the big projects that only governments can do, get done. Unless you think it means grab a shovel and build your own interstate highway system. Taxes aren't stealing. Look at the darling of the teabaggers, Momma Grizley. For every $1 Alaska sent to the Feds, the Feds sent back like $6 in assistance, programs and infrastructure. Takes a lot of grizley gall to complain about that.
Not everything is about you.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader I actually couldn't agree more with your last comment! My point is that there are many people who look to government for WAY too much. I hope you would agree that government spending (that is approaching 50% of GDP) is much too big. When my household needs to cut it's budget, this is what I do. Politicians at all levels are doing the opposite, saying that spending is the solution. Unfortunately, our kids are in for a rude awakening. Friend,this is unethical and wrong!
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP you do realize of course that part of why the budget appears to have exploded is that Bush fought 2 wars off the books...and now we aren't pretending they are free anymore.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader I absolutely agree with you...Bush was spending WAY too much!!! I didn't agree with his "stimulus" package either. Obama has took Bush's huge budgets and increased them dramatically. Where are those who bashed Bush for his budgets and are turning a blind eye to Obama's monster sized budgets. He is spending us into oblivion. I look at policies I believe in, not the party. This spending has to stop!
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP If you think "Bush was spending WAY too much!!!" then for those 8 years, where were you? Where was the teaparty? Where were the wailing women demanding "their country back?" Suddenly it's a travesty, suddenly the administration is a threat to democracy. All of a sudden.
That's why all the rhetoric about evil Obama rings hollow. You can say "Bush was also bad!" but everybody thought giving everything to the rich was brilliant! Until the economy collapsed. D'oh!
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP I'd love to hear your thoughts on allowing the tax cuts to the richest Americans to expire, which was written into the law by the GOP when they passed them 10 years ago. The law says, 10 years later, they expire. Dems aren't raising taxes, the GOP programmed that they expire this year. Dems don't have to do a thing. Thoughts? Dick Armey, darling of the teaparty, says "Dems are raising taxes."
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader (cont.) I do not want my children to pay for bailouts. Our deficit is now at 14 trillion. Our GDP is at 17 trillion.Does this concern you?
As for the tax increase...I am far from rich. The owner of the comany I work for is well to do. He started this business from the ground up (first 4 years he made little) with the understanding that he will reap the rewards. We need tax laws to promote this. Last time I checked, the poor don't hire. dems&rep need to work on this.
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP yeah it concerns me. First thing to do, cut the military budget in half. Stop paying billions in subsidies to the oil industry, as they post record profits. Stop paying farmers not to grow crops.
Then, then, talk about cutting food stamp programs and stuff. The tax cuts that the GOP wrote to expire, corresponded to a 10 year period of massive greed, the gap between poor and rich yawned, and then it all collapsed. The jobs chart went down and down, guess low taxes didn't help.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP Google Image search "bikini graph" and note what happened when Bush left and Obama took over, and tell me that Obama is ruining the country.
I'll wait.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP
Quote 1: "He started this business from the ground up (first 4 years he made little)"
Quote 2: "Last time I checked, the poor don't hire."
So, this owner of the company you work for who started with little money never hired anyone? How'd you get your job? You have to be rich to hire people? I thought "small business" was the banner of conservatives. Now we need to keep them rich? So they will trickle down on the "little people?" We had that experiment.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader I said that he started and for 4 years he didn't make anything...at this time he worked with a partner literally 80+ hrs a week with the hope that one day he wouldn't have to do that. Over time he succeeded through persistence. Would he be willing to do that if he knew that most of his hard work would be taken by the govt. If I work o.t. and I knew that 70% of it will be gone, I probably wouldn't do it. "We cannot lift the poor by tearing down the rich" Abe lincoln
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP If I work o.t. and I knew that 70% of it will be gone, I probably wouldn't do it. "We cannot lift the poor by tearing down the rich" Abe lincoln
Absurd. Stop listening to talk radio and watch CSPAN. When the breaks expire (as the GOP wrote them to, even though they are painting it as the Dems raising taxes,) the rate will go from like 35% to 39.5%. Claims that 'omfg rich people will be unable to hire!' are just silly. Also, when Lincoln said that, the rich weren't billionaires
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader I looked at the bikini graph,and I really hate to burst this theory, but the increases are due to government jobs.(Census workers were hired, among others).Is this good?I'm very happy to see people work. However,if you've every studied econ,the private sector supports the public sector through taxation.(Yes there is a little trickle effect when govt workers are taxed).True growth comes from only the private sector.If my boss is taxed more,he may layoff people to cover this.
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP Saying the turnaround in jobs since the election is all due to the Census is also absurd. Exactly how many census workers do you think there are...
Also, on that graph, the recovery is about equal to the loss preceding it. If you are going to dismiss the recovery as unimportant, than the mirror-image loss has to also be unimportant. Yet they are painted as STAGGERING! Can't have it both ways. Both are significant, or both aren't. Jobs are jobs.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader I found this on the AP website:
WASHINGTON–Congress seems increasingly reluctant to let taxes go up, even on wealthier Americans.Worried about the fragile economy and their own upcoming elections,a growing number of Dems are joining the rock-solid Republican opposition to Obama's plans to let some of the Bush administration's tax cuts expire"In my view this is no time to do anything that could be jarring to a fragile recovery," Rep. Gerry Connolly of Virginia, a Democrat.
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP again, Dems aren't letting anything expire. The LAW the GOP passed in reconciliation (which they blast Dems for using!) says they SHALL expire.
It is completely bogus to say the Dems are "letting" anything expire. Dems would have to pass another tax cut to extend them. And to say that Dems are "raising taxes" is flat out lying.
"Rock-solid" is a good way of describing the GOP role now in the Congress. A rock has no ideas, proposes no plans and offers no alternatives.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader Is the GOP perfect in their policy? haha. Are the Dems? far from it. My ideological belief is that the feds need to be reigned in. Under this and past administrations it is so overreaching. BTW over 1m census jobs. 80k NEW IRS jobs.Govt doesnt create wealth,it takes it.True economic growth is from private sector. Govt can't create it. I hope you and I agree that this spending needs to stop and now!! I almost feel as if I know you.I appreciate this friendly talk!
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP some spending is useful. Stimulus dollars are driving some new clean energy industry in Ohio, where I live. I'd be happy for campaign finance reform (which no one in office wants to pass, so it will never pass,) kicking lobbyists out of the corridors of power, and serious cutting of pork. We wouldn't have so much spending on the military (more than the rest of the world combined) if every part was made in a different state on purpose.
GretchenDawntreader 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader Govt spending is useful within the proper role of govt.Everytime someone says "stimulus spending" I always think "kids and grandkids" spending.You've brought good points, but why is it that whenever there is a deficit there are those who always want to raise taxes without looking at spending.When it can be said that there is no waste in govt, then I could understand the increases.But there is too much waste.How much is enough?I also said b4,govt can't create wealth.
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP The thing is those tax cuts were never budgeted, it was assumed by Bushes economic team that America would grow out the lost tax revenue more than it had to increase public spending to support it. Those tax cuts thus left a large structural deficit and the side which want to renew them are not offing any cuts to offset it. So I would rather they expire than keep accruing debt, it's hard to call them an increase when they are temporary and were passed by reconciliation.
CmdrTobs 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP Not quite, public spending provides items that add to the value of any private product produced. A Ferrari is a nice thing in America with smooth tarred roads. Electricity without air pollution is nice too. Sure government spending was a minimum level of service is provided generally tend not improve general satisfaction, but it enables greater satisfaction from private production. We should do well to remember this.
CmdrTobs 1 year ago
@CmdrTobs I never once said there should be no govt spending...the obvious goes without saying.Should money go for roads?...etc. I think the answer is obvious. It should be remebered that private production is the only support of the things you mentioned.In this economy we need to encourage more investment.Over-taxation will discourage people from this.It seems to me that you think i've been pawned because you believe govt has all the answers. Things like the war on poverty really worked.
FrankieJGP 1 year ago
@FrankieJGP is the "war on poverty" a special program? You are right about private production, I don't disagree. I am just saying counter cyclical public spending is on projects can and does create wealth. An example is the hover dam, since 1986 it has surpassed its operating costs and since then it has provided electricity essentially at 0 cost.
Just the sort of project the private sector can't undertake but makes us wealthy.
CmdrTobs 1 year ago
@GretchenDawntreader Christ you have handed that guy some serious pwn.
CmdrTobs 1 year ago