The Real Jesus: Myth #4 (6 of 10)

[mrtalkntext11]

do good not because there's heaven but because it is good...

don't do bad not because there's hell but because it is bad...

[mesrlover1]

God is not of the mankind. In addition, He is not an angel. There is no christian or jewish or hindu or buddist god, there is only one Absolute God. Absolute beauty can not be numerous. Absolute perfection can not be numerous. Absolute power can not be numerous.

Absolute wisdom can not be numerous. Absolute truth can not be numerous..Jesus was a great prophet and a perfect man but he is nothing but a slave and a very limited being or entity compared to Him.

[humanistheart]

Lol, there is no virgin prophicies, nor does the bible even idicate mary was a virgin. Are all christians that ignorant?

[jcr4runner]

@humanistheart Ironically BOTH Matthew and Luke interpret the prophecy to mean a "virgin" so the fact that Jews of that day understood it to mean that with no qualification or further explanation gives it further credibility.

[humanistheart]

@jcr4runner Hardly. First of all the 'virgin' birth is a mistranslation that's become popularized in christian lore. Like how christians think satan and lucifer are one and the same, and is a fallen angel. 2nd if you knew history you'd know the vast majority of jews did not exept that explanation. Christianity was originally a failed Jewish reform movement, if it had succeeded judiasm and christianity would never had diverged.

[jcr4runner]

@humanistheart No. The Virgin birth was "popularized" by the Gospels.

I agree with your last statement. Christianity has no conflict with the religion of the Old Testament.

[humanistheart]

@jcr4runner Almost, it was popularized by mistranslation of the gospels.

That's not what I said at all, in fact it's the complete opposite. Jews rejected jesus and the evolving chrsitian doctine because it did conflict with their scriptures. This is why christianity divulged from judaism.

[humanistheart]

@jcr4runner 3rd, we don't know who authored Mathew or Luke, they may or may not have been jews. And 4th, there is no prophecy concerning a virgin birth in the scriptures.

[jcr4runner]

@humanistheart "We don't know" except for the fact that it was universally attested to by the early church with no controversy until the 1800s when atheists posing as theologians decided to attack anything and everything that was accepted by the church for centuries.

[humanistheart]

@jcr4runner We don't know who authored these texts. If you have some proof to this I'd recommend writing a paper on it as no one has been able to do this before. As for your comments concerning athiests, that's just desperation on your part. Get back to me if you ever find that mysterious source.

[jcr4runner]

@humanistheart I am all for skepticism, but I apply the same test to the Bible as all literature. Genuine authorship should be determined by early manuscripts with postscripts or superscripts with the author's name, by external testimony of authorship that is close to the writing of the documents, and by a lack of controversy over authorship by those who first received the documents.

The Gospels far surpass all other ancient documents in these three tests.

[humanistheart]

@jcr4runner

No, in fact the gospels fail entirely on all thee tests. We don't have a single original script for any of the books of the NT (or the hebrew bible for that matter) there has never been any 'external testimony' from anyone involved with the writing or author of these gospels, nor do the writers identify themselves. In fact if you read the first verses of luke he states flat out he's not an eye witness.

[durbinjeff]

@humanistheart Do you know the good news?

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

[durbinjeff]

@humanistheart

I must confess that I have heard this verse for 45 years, I have heard many men tell me that the word virgin or Alma in the Hebrew language means a young unmarried woman. These teachers are sincere, they are correct with the translation. But they are wrong about the point, because a young unmarried woman having a baby is not that miraculous. It is not that uncommon.

[booniesman88]

@humanistheart (Isa 7:14) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

[HeavenBound2323]

obviously you non believers want to believe, thats why you are here watching this video. But you will never belive, with all this scientific evidence prove bible accuracy and the life of Jesus you still refuse to believe. You wont believe until it is too late, until you are under God's wrath. Open your eyes, proof is right here

[humanistheart]

@HeavenBound2323

That wouldn't be belief, it would be knowledge as one then would know this god existed, because of the wrath (insidently you think your loving perfect god has wrath? Talk about a contradiction!). No, it's more the other way around. You watch these to convince yourself it's true because you know deep down it can't be.

[witchcerridwen]

just read what i have written.very simple.paganism is the fastest growing religion.you must be blind not to see that.

[witchcerridwen]

well christianity is not a threat anymore as the churches are getting empty and paganism is the fastest growing religion.sorry.......

[jcr4runner]

Proof? Pagan temples outnumber churches in most towns, right?

[humanistheart]

@witchcerridwen

Actually Islam and Mormonism and the leaders right now.

[EndTimeDelusion1]

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I WILL BE HIS GOD, and he shall be my son.

Luke 8:39 Return to thine own house, and shew how great things GOD hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things JESUS had done unto him.

[seawitch9496]

jesus was a man not god no man is god, why would god just tell one person, and not tell us all what is truth, no way is he god, we are all sons and darthers of god and you can only fine him in your heart, not in a book that a man wrote, god bless us all.

[pablocoon]

that you believe that will cost you eternity in paradise. Jesus was the God man, the king of Kings. I hope you can change your heart and find eternal life.

[iscrca]

I meant to say that Jesus was a threat to the romans, and everyone else. He was doing right and they were doing wrong and that is why they had him crucified. He is the son of God.

[iscrca]

Either you believe or you don't it's that simple and I don't need people who don't believe and who have nothing better to do to tell me Jesus is real. People will always try to prove that he is not the son of God just like in Jesus time which is why they had him put to death. He was a threat to him. Why else would they have killed them. And they did lots of things that were wrong and instead of taking blame they killed him.

[KattarnaX]

you should really read european history, if you want to know about Christianity...

[cookiemonsterog]

You show the same pagan images of Jesus as the pagans do. Jesus was not Ceasar Borges nor White. No white man could have hid in EGYPT, just as Moses, Joseph, Isaac and Jacob fitted in.

[snaebjorn53]

I think Christ Jesus made it perfectly clear to his disciples in the gospel John: "I am the living bread which comes down from heaven", "he who has me has seen the father", "I and my father are one", "I am the truth and the light" This is why the Jews had him put to death, for blasphemy.However, in the Philippians he renounced his divine state as to be man, and in Psalm 82 didn't he say we are all Gods?And there is no archaeological or tangible evidence Christ lived, it's only opinion..... Peace

[bonajab]

I think jesus was the exact image of God, the Son of God, that he will rule the kindom God has given Him, that He does whatever He sees His Father doing. It's sort of like the relationship Joseph had with Pharoh. Also, I think the Bible and secular historians lend tangible evidence to the existence of Jesus.

[valu777]

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father,but by me.

it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[TheBestEVER4LIFE]

i agree and God we both know what God said about the prouds

[Agriyaqaz]

I really liked your video and your channel. If you need any help getting this video or channel exposed I use a site called tubeviews.(net) It has really helped like 20 of my main videos get to the top in position. God Bless!

thanks for sharing good stuff man

[mysteek29]

I think that you must first understand that these so-called critics only want human kind to return to the point that they love each other more than myths. You are holding on to false beliefs because 1- you couldnt see living without it 2 you benefit finanially from it 3. You out of a desperate and perverse need to be dependant on something you hold on to things that ultimately change nothing for you. Your belief doesnt make your life without problems that everyone has.

[john32190]

This is interesting, it's just too bad there is no such thing as a god and all religions are man made. Enjoy believing in invisible men living in the sky, I'll be using my brain to decide things for myself instead of puting blind faith into some crazy religion.

[draconusrex33]

A fool says in his heart there is no God

[MikeLockard]

Perfect statement my friend!

[mystisme]

you must decide is he the son of man or the son of god? anyway can t you really read your bible cause one disciple ask to jesus who we were and jesus him self said truly i tell ,ye are gods, meaning that we are all gods

[teeggarscott]

God bless you!!!!

[sc0tchlvr]

There are specific reasons why Jesus does refer himself as part of the Divine; one who deserves to be seated at the "right hand" of the Father. That reason was that Jesus was so connected to the true nature of who we ALL are as God's children. That is right - ALL of us are Gods! Jesus himself reiterated that statement that was said TWICE in the Old Testament, and when he re-stated it, he was almost stoned for saying so! Are we all not too different today when we can't see what Jesus was saying!

[Metania01]

That will not get you to Heaven. You have to believe to the REAL God the Holy Trinity (Father, Son(Jesus Christ) and Holy Spirit, and I don't know why you don't?

[joeocho88]

I am a Jew and I think there are good people and good teachings of all religions.

I have to admit that I have been rather skeptical about these people who say JESUS WAS G*D! He may have been an ELOHIM. The penalty for unmarried pregnant women was DEATH by STONING among the Jews of Mary's day.

IF 'Jesus' existed,He would have been a JEW! There is only ONE G*D! G*D and the Elohim created EVERYTHING- to suggest He has an illegitimate Son is BLASPHEMY!

I CAN'T HEAR ANY MORE OF THIS!

[draconusrex33]

he wasn't illegitimate..they were engaged when mary found she was with child..remember older customs..engaged was the same as being married for most Israelis of that time and before then..she would have needed a divorce decree to get out of the marriage.she delivered while married which does make Yeshua legitimate.according to Isaiah he was the appointed Messiah..the only one born at the right time and place as foretold by the Lord

shalom

[omadon7]

salvation is from the jews

[atnight87]

Salvation is open to all mankind....not only comes from Jews.

[Linkent]

Hypostatic Union...research. or John 1-3

[soilofk]

it is interesting how "Cristians" believe in the old testament, that is soooooo Jewish, full of all jewish traditions and historic record of that time. Then at the same time they belive in the new testament that is soooo diferent than the old testament. Even Jesus said that "he did not come to change the law...but to make it true..." It is connected.

[aznric3boi91]

do you even understand the basis of why religion was created in the first place?? where and why religion was so powerful back in ancient times up til today?? also the new testament was mistranslated multiple times....humans were not suppose to be governed by others in the first place...religion was put in place to govern people, society and every they saw fit. the idieology is called manipulation of society to get what somebody wants.

[jcr4runner]

As far as I know the most ancient Greek manuscripts of the NT and the Hebrew OT are 99 percent what we have today.

What do you mean by "mistranslated"?

[aznric3boi91]

as far as i know most of the new testament and old testament translated into english has many misunderstanding..... i know for sure that if a person were to study the greek and hebrew version they can see the enormous difference...that meaning you actually read the hebrew torah... and i highly doubt its 99% ....also i can tell you for sure that the bible is just a astro-theological hybrid.

[jcr4runner]

You can get interlinear Bibles that show the Hebrew and Greek alongside the English words and then a translation in the margin.

You can also get the "Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" which has the 2100 year old scrolls' translation and then you can compare it to a modern version.

The Bible is no "hybrid" it's remained remarkably unchanged compared to the original manuscripts. There is no other ancient document like it.

[aznric3boi91]

how is it possible that not even one word has not changed in the bible from the old testament...also you must be aware that the bible and dead sea scrolls is not the only source....even if you say its not a hybrid....i can say that it show remarkable similarities to other religion and their scriptures....especially the Egyptians. i can however say that the bible is scientfically proven that the bible is an astro theological hybrid ....hybird between stars and paganism

[jcr4runner]

I didn't say not one word have been changed. I wrote that we can arrive at what the scriptures said withing 99 percent certainty. Since the OT was copied maninly in Israel, it's copies are even more unchanged than the NT.

There are "remarkable similarities" between all religions as Paul points out in Romans 1 (due to natural revelation) and Acts 17:22-31.

But the Bible is the only ancient document that has as many manuscripts as it has and whose manuscripts have been preserved as accurately.

[aznric3boi91]

thats very untrue...im saying that many of the stories told is based off of what man fears...fear is what gives humans the ability to manipulate others....religion is on of many manipulation techniques..it has been known since the beginning of time that man fears death...first it was light vs dark...then religion....today is terrorism....they all link together...its so obvious

[jcr4runner]

I don't believe that the Bible is myth because it has too many of the details unique to eyewitness and historical

The ancient myths did not occur exactly as they are recorded, but most myths and legends have a basis in a historical event or truth found in the Bible.

It's a bleak vew of ancient literature -- virtually all of which is based on mythos -- to say these stories were invented by fearful manipulative people.

[jcr4runner]

I don't a agree with your premise in either direction -- toward the Bible or toward mythos.

If anything these alleged similarities are based on truth. If the Flood really happened exactly as recorded in the Bible, then we would expect hundreds of versions of these flood stories circulating since ancient times from as far away as Asia and North America. And in fact, almost every ancient culture had a "Flood Myth."

[aznric3boi91]

haven't you ever heard that stories were spread by word of mouth? its like the story that plato spread with the odyssey .this is not a bleak view on anything.people should open up their minds to what is the truth.not be constrained to some book which has given the power to manipulate others.how else do you think the dark age happened and how vatican were set up? how do you think that there is so much fighting in the world just because of some stupid religion that makes people talk bad of others?

[jcr4runner]

In many of the books in the Bible the authors describe how the books were actually written. With the exception of Genesis and Job, which were passed down by necessity, here's no example of an author recording a distant oral tradition. Every book has an identifiable author writing about events that took place in his own generation.

[aznric3boi91]

what i am saying is that things get passed around by word of mouth....you dont need proof that the author didnt record something from a distant land...because its everywhere like you said...one of the biggest ways is by the silk road and the crossing of the northern bridge in ancient times....as things get translated the are more likely to be exaggerated and then sometimes reinvented.i dont care about specific parts of the bible...i can probably even say that the bible was created as a necessity

[pskerin]

This is reply to the statement that Jesus is Jehovah,because Jesus is on the throne.First,Jesus is at the right hand of Jah.Then he is "placed" on the throne by Jah for 1000yrsThen Jesus gives throne back to Jah.If one gives or places the other.The One who does the placing is superior.The one at the right hand is lesser,however,with a great deal of authority,all of which was "given"to Jesus by Jah.How does Jah give the throne to himself,and then returns it to himself?You conclude God is Messiah.

[Jitpring]

Friends, see this great book by Frank Sheed: To Know Christ Jesus.

[GodistheHolySpirit]

Jesus is God which I learnt from 2 separate studies of the Bible.

The problem believing Christians have is the translations of the Greek and Latin when Jesus spoke Aramaic

In the NT,Jesus appears praying to the Father and other scriptures reveal Jesus is saying He is the Father as in John 14:9

Jesus went to the cross because of his claim of being God and He rose from the dead proving He is God.

[MntrTodd]

Isaiah 43:2, Isaiah 14:21, Hosea 13:4, John 6:57, Hebrews 26:5, Mark 10:18, John 14:21, John 7:16, John 5:19, John 6:44-46, John 5:30, John 20:17, Matt. 6:6, I John 4:12, Matt. 20:23, Matt. 19:17, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19, Matt. 3:17, Matt. 17:5, Mark 1:11, Mark 9:7, Luke 3:22, Luke 9:35, Romans 1:3-4, II Pet. 1:17-18, Col. 1:15, Hebrews 1:6, Rev. 3:14, John 14:28, I Cor. 15:27-28, Matt. 27:46, Mark 15:34, John 5:31, you get the idea. The notion that Jesus is God not supported by NT

[jcr4runner]

I noticed you didn't include Psalm 110.

Look you can use selective scripture quoting to prove anything. Why does David in Psalm 110 call the Messiah his Lord?

None of these scriptures even in isolation contradict that Jesus is the Son of God, the second Person of the Trinity, co-equal and co-eternal with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

[kerburger]

amen!

[MntrTodd]

The idea that Jesus' divinity is denied at least two dozen times in various NT passages. He denies it with his own words no less than 14 times.

Calling J.P. Holding "one of the foremost Chrisitan apologists on the net", well, that doesn't say much for internet apologetics, does it?

[Glorthac]

Prove it.

[plzuplzme]

Yes, According to Trinitarian THEORY as articulated/conjectured in the Athanasian Creed, Trinitarians CLAIM to worship one God, HOWEVER, when articulation/concept of the Trinity is measured/tested against the Biblical scriptures, the nature of the Trinitarian 'ONENESS'does not exist!! Please provide BIBLICAL evidence where 'God' is comprised of Father, Son, Spirt that form one being!!....

[jcr4runner]

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. Psalms 110:1-4

[jcr4runner]

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions. Matthew 22:41-46

[jcr4runner]

The answer is of course that He is both!

Jesus was the Son of David, but also the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity.

Would you like to discuss the "Son of man" passage in Daniel next?

[plzuplzme]

When measuring the articulation of the Trinity against the biblical scriptures/definitions/concept­s, it transparently exposes Trinitarians as worshippers of three distinct eternal Gods that share the one essence of divinity. That is, One essence of divinity in three distinct personal deities - polytheism. Nowhere is it articulated within the bible that one 'GOD'is comprised of three distinct persons that form one being.

[jcr4runner]

Modalists and other Monarchian heretics can say that can say that Trinitarianism is Tritheism all day long.

It's not.

And it won't become Tritheism simply because you insist that Trinitarians believe in three Gods.

We don't.

Christianity is Trinitarian. We believe in one God in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. For a definition of the Trinity read the Athanasian Creed.

[plzuplzme]

A sect of misguided Jews during NT times erroneously interpreted the OT personifications of God's attribute - Word/Wisdom - as a distinct self conscious 'person' manifested in Jesus. God's attributes never subsisted as 'persons'.The erroneous transition of belief from personification to 'person' of God's attribute prepared the distorted Christological interpretation of Jesus as reflected in the NT.

[plzuplzme]

Dismantle the personified wisdom/logos modes of thought and expressions that were used in the NT to conceptualize the person of Jesus and his relationship to the God he worshipped, and you have a human Jewish prophet that performed miracles by God Almighty.

[AbdAlMuqtadir]

According to this video - the conclusions are based solely on the english language - and also what I noticed was in this video Jesus is a white guy.

[jcr4runner]

More specifically he is a Renaissance Italian guy -- or the ideal portrait of this period when a lot of religious art was produced. I realize we don't know what Jesus looked like exactly and we can never know in this life.

The earliest Christians did not believe in making artistic representations of Jesus because of their Jewish interpretation of the second commandment against images.

What is the earliest image of Jesus I wonder?

[AbdAlMuqtadir]

hmm, good inquiry - they did not believe in making artistic representations, and the word JESUS is the acronim for "may his name be forgetten and not remembered", which they insisted be done in accordance to the admiration of him.

[plzuplzme]

The speculative jewish wisdom/memra/logos philosophies/conceptualization­s that were used by the NT Authors as templates to interpret the man Jesus, consequently distorted his true historical identity as the human prophet (only) and messiah of God Almighty.

[jcr4runner]

You are Muslim then?

[mokyboo]

Did you ask him this because muslims do not believe in the trinity?

[jcr4runner]

Muslims believe that Jesus is the messiah, but not God.

[mokyboo]

That is what I asked. Trinity is God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit. I use to think it was all three also working on one accord, but I have come to realize that Jesus was a manifestation of God and they are all one.

[jcr4runner]

The One is Three and the Three are One.

Both formulas are correct and neither is correct without acknowledging the other.

At least that's what Athanasius taught.

[MntrTodd]

This part of the documentary is a pretty lame attempt to establish internet hack J.P. Holding as some kind of serious, credible Biblical scholar. But he just looks silly pontificating on his contrived rationale that Jesus is God, in lieu of the many NT passages in which Jesus explicitly states that he and God are seperate entities.

[jcr4runner]

Look for further interviews with Dr. George Grant and Old Testament scholar Dr. Raymond C. Ortlund.

I'll post these in a few days.

That Jesus and the Gospel writer's proclaimed the messiah to be God is a slam dunk.

[mtcanz]

"In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God." John 1:1

"With" speaking to diversity -- separateness; "Was" speaking to the unity -- oneness. It's very clear there is both.

"And the Word BECAME flesh and dwelt among us..." John 1:14 "Became" = "ginomai", "began to exist as". The one who was eternally WITH and eternally WAS God BEGAN to exist ... but only in the flesh as a man.

[CREDITS4CARBON]

We know Jesus is the messiah because HE fits all the old testament prophecies as to who the messiah will be. Where He is born, how He is born, who He is born to ( allmah, a younge, unmarried virgin )of the tribe of King David. The bible says in the old testament that "any person claiming to be God should be put to death" according to the jews. During a nazarites vow of seperation from God ( a testing period ), he must not go near any dead bodies. In death Jesus kept that vow by dying 1st.

[MntrTodd]

There are no old testament prophecies of Jesus, only passages quoted out of context and pretended to be prophecies by NT authors. And the word "allmah" does not mean "virgin".

[BryanMark2]

Please refrain from commenting on things you know nothing about. The enirety of the old testiment is a prophistetic look to the advent of the Messiah.

[MntrTodd]

You can't even spell the word "testament" and now you're going to tell me what it is?

[mtcanz]

...and you misspelled "almah"....big deal; it happens.

Almah can mean "maiden" Or "virgin" -- either/both. The Septuagint translates "almah" in Isaiah 7:14 into the Greek, "parthenos"...which almost always means "virgin".

[rdsxric461]

The son of man doesn't mean God. Ezekiel was called the son of man as well. Just because Jesus calls himself the son of man doesn't mean he claimed to be God. A better place to show Jesus called himself God is John 8:58 when he says before Abraham was, I AM. In Aramaic or Hebrew im not sure he used the Yahweh sense of I AM. which is God

[koduckman]

people i tell you that i have seen the holy one with my own eyes i know what surrounds the holy one i know the place where he walked and where he had given comfort and i can tell you at what point he left and in which direction he came.

[allahis4losers]

Jesus did claim deity I am the Alpha and Omega the first and the last.

[braddles84]

Oh sorry. You say Jesus IS God. Ok my bad, I'd better watch the video

[jcr4runner]

The LORD said unto my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool. I was watching in the night visions, And behold, One like the Son of Man, Coming with the clouds of heaven! He came to the Ancient of Days, And they brought Him near before Him.

[craggles80]

The concept of the trinity was not introduced to the 6th century AD. The understanding of the trinity has changed unbelievably since then. Maybe ask yourself this. Did Jesus pray to himself? Did he do his own will? How could he be seated at the right hand of the father? If he was God. Mmmm.

[jcr4runner]

The "sixth" century? -- The fourth century of Athanasius had nothing to do with the doctrine of the Trinity? Nor the third century Cyprian? Nor the second century of Tertullian?

[McBuff427]

How about this statement of Jesus in Matthew 24:36 "of that day and hour. ..no one knows. .NOT EVEN THE SON. . but THE FATHER ONLY!" God and Jesus know different things. . . also Jesus prayer in John 17 "all believers be "one" as God and Christ are "one." . ."One" clearly does not mean "same"

[angelsonx]

Read John Zizioulas' book, "Being As Communion." It will offer some insight as to how Jesus is God, yet at the same time is not the Father. Just because Jesus didn't know something WHILE ON EARTH doesn't mean that he's not God. He took on limitations of flesh. Besides, the rest of the NT affirms Christ's deity by applying the ultimate "Day of the Lord" coming spoken of in the OT to Jesus. The NT writers, who claim to have been taught by Jesus, undeniably equate him with Yahweh in the OT.

[mokyboo]

This is true. Jesus was of flesh, a manifestation of God. I still get confused with this because I am just beginning to study it but how you put it makes sense and I will look up that book. Thanks!

[sparrowdancer]

Read Isaiah, in which it clearly states that "it pleased" Jehovah to put the Messiah to grief and bruise him. The mission of the Messiah, after all, was to liberate the Jews from the laws of Jehovah.

[jcr4runner]

Not according to Jesus: Matt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do."

[sparrowdancer]

The quote from Matthew does not contradict what I said. Who knows what he really said, because there were no gospels in existence until many years later. Jerome first compiled the "new testament" in the Latin Vulgate in 405 A.D. Clearly, the majority of the teachings were not based upon the teachings of Jesus, but upon the teachings of Paul, a Jewish man who had never met, seen, heard, or followed the teachings of Jesus.

[jcr4runner]

The writer of the Didache, Clement, Papias, Polycarp and Ignatius quote from the New Testament. They lived in the first century. If the NT was not written for "many years after" then how is that possible?

[yastunt]

sparrow,there is reportedly a fragment of John's gospel in the British mueseum dated to. .120ad. .since it is a copy of a copy etc the original must have been much earlier - check it out!

[jcr4runner]

There's also a radically conservative Catholic scholar named Carsten Peter Theide who claims he's identified a fragment from the Gosepl of Mark from BEEFORE 70 AD.

Thiede's redating of the Magdalen papyrus, a fragment of the Greek Gospel of Matthew, to the latter part of the 1st century on palaeographical grounds has also provoked much debate.

In any case, the Magdelen fragment is very early -- 2nd century at the latest.

[yastunt]

jc,the late Carsten Theide has been challenged on his dating of that fragment. .nevertheless it is remarkable that no gospel mentions the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem AD70 - with the implication at least one of them was written BEFORE AD70

[jcr4runner]

I think there is a 50-50 chance that the Magdalen Papyrus is first century. The "careful" view is that it is late second century. But it's still one of the earliest papyrus fragments.

No New Testament book mentions the destruction of the Temple. The pseudopigraphal Epistle of Barnabas DOES mention it, which is exactly what we should expect from a post-70 AD Christian book.

[yastunt]

thanks jc,for that revealing observation about the "Barnabas" epistle - its disturbing to see how sceptics try to wriggle their way out of the difficulties posed by the absence of any reference to the attack on Jerusalem AD70.

[jcr4runner]

The fragment of the Gospel of John is called the Ryland's fragment. It was found in Egypt and many think it is the earliest extant copy of any NT book.

If this "copy of a copy" was in Egypt by the early second century, it must have been written by John prior to the traditional date of his death in the early 90s AD.

[jcr4runner]

Since John is considered by most to be the latest Gospel, it stands to reason that the other Gospels could have been written by 70 AD.

Even most liberals who don't think the Gospels are authentic now admit an early date of no later than 80 AD.

Virtually no one is saying 100 years after Jesus any more.

[sparrowdancer]

This is utter bull, produced by "yahweh" thinkers. Jesus is the opponent of Jehovah. This is clearly stated in Hebrew in the Old Testament. The reason all of the old and new testament contradicts itself is because it is about a battle between two gods - the god of Israel, and the god of the Messiah.

[jcr4runner]

Where in the Hebrew Old Testament does it "clearly state" that Jesus is the opponennt of Jehovah?

[CBALLEN]

Thank you for your videos,it's been a great help.