@JohnAThornton In regard to Ron Watson's common sense. You credit him with looking for Noah's Ark on Ararat. And lo what happens Ron discovers the Ark in the very spot he looks. I think you should look up the term confirmation bias. Ron wants an Ark on Ararat so Ron gets one, even if it is just rock formation that looks vaguely ship like. I
@JohnAThornton The idea that Archeologist would NOT investigate compelling evidence of a giant bronze ship is ludicrous. Don't trust me, look up the number and range of different phd's submitted by archeology post grads and you will see that they are covering a lot if basis. The idea that not a single archeologists can be prevailed upon to study what would be the greatest discovery in the history archeology is silly.
BLESSED ART THOU OH LORD OUR GOD KING OF THE UNIVERSE, FOR THOU BRINGETH FORTH THE TRUTH THE K I N G IS C O M I N G, PLEASE GO TO MY CHANNEL GOD WANTS TO BLESS YOU WITH HIS WITNESS,
THE BLOOD OF HIS SON, HE GAVE HIS SON TO DIE FOR YOU, ACCEPT JESUS AS LORD TODAY TO BE SAVED ,REPENT READ KJV BIBLE PLEASE ,PLEASE GO TO MY CHANNEL GOD WANTS TO BLESS YOU NOW
How in the world could elephants negotiate a downward descent on the almost vertical wa;;s of a high mountain? Absolutely mpossible! That fact is but one reason any reasonable person would know that Noah's Ark would and could not have come to rest on Mt. Arat, proper. A boat looks like a boat, whether sitting (or buried) on dry land or floating on water (or sitting on the bottom of the ocean. Do you get the picture?
@HolyRevelation Whoa NELLIE!! I''m with you 100%, Ron Wyatt was a man after God's own heart, and God reciprocated by giving him more good old common sense than a 10 mile long freight train can haul. Noah's Ark is right where God left it. He showed Ron where it was, and provided the means to get there. The Ark was never "lost", the "scientific" community just didn't have sense enough to know where to look and mostly refused to look in the most logical place of all, "the MOUNTAINS of ARAT"
@HolyRevelation Interesting point you touch on there. Orogeny, I mean. In fact it's these very processes that directly rule out a global flood as per a literal reading of Genesis. The amount of heat released as clearly documented by the chemcial composition of the Earth's crust completely rules out the flood. A LOCAL flood? Yeah, sure. There's data that supports that. Happens all the time, and stories do get bigger in the retelling. Global? No way.
I get the picture better then you can possibly imagine. Image the overhead architectual view of a boat. Now, consider that view and know the timber frame fall away from center by design. Outwards, and for sake of imagery can use a wireframe in your imagination. The image would vaguely resemble a boat, but that is the image is created by the remnants of ancient vessels. Expand the Biblical measurements to adapt to an outwardly collapsed frame. Wyatt found Noah's Ark
The end is closer than we think my friends. There are already plans for taxation of churches. I hope everyone sees the truth and chooses to make a decision.
When Evolutionists attempt to eliminate the supernatural God, they must attribute Gods supernatural attributes to the universe. Instead of believing in a super, intelligent, creative God, they believe in a super, intelligent, creative universe.
Evolution is form of eastern, Hindu, mysticism disguised as science.
Many people have lied for personal gain. In fact, the motivation of most lies is some perceived benefit to oneself. What could Jesus have hoped to gain from lying about his identity? Power would be the most obvious answer. If people believed he was God, he would have tremendous power. (That is why many ancient leaders, such as the Caesars, claimed divine origin.)-2nd part below
The rub with this explanation is that Jesus shunned all attempts to move him in the direction of seated power, instead chastising those who abused such power and lived their lives pursuing it. He also chose to reach out to the outcasts (prostitutes and lepers), those without power, creating a network of people whose influence was less than zero. In a way that could only be described as bizarre, all that Jesus did and said moved diametrically in the other direction from power.-3rd part below
It would seem that if power was Jesus motivation, he would have avoided the cross at all costs. Yet, on several occasions, he told his disciples that the cross was his destiny and mission. How would dying on a Roman cross bring one power?-final point at he below
Death, of course, brings all things into proper focus. And while many martyrs have died for a cause they believed in, few have been willing to die for a known lie. Certainly all hopes for Jesus own personal gain would have ended on the cross. Yet, to his last breath, he would not relinquish his claim of being the unique Son of God. Jesus used the terms Son of Man and Son of God to identify his dual nature as both man and God (See Did Jesus Claim to be God?).2 God be the Glory 4ever n ever
There was an american who disapprove Jesus,unknowingly dt his country was made under Jesus teaching.-"Ironically, Jeffersons memorable words in the Declaration of Independence were rooted in Jesus teaching that each person is of immense and equal importance to God, regardless of sex, race, or social status. The famous document sets forth, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
Jesus greatness was obvious to all those who saw and heard him. But, whereas most great people simply fade into history books, Jesus of Nazareth is still the focus of numerous books and media controversy.Within three years, Jesus changed the world for the next 20 centuries. Other moral and religious leaders have left an impact---but nothing like that unknown carpenter from Nazareth.
Could you please view this documentation and tell me what you think?
Copy and paste the following terms into google and hit enter and the first result should be a PDF file, that would be the one. The pertinent information is on pages 78-80:
When Tertullian applies Christian terminology to the Mysteries he wants to show how similar they are to the Christian sacraments. It never crosses Tertullian's mind that these parallels might be used against Christian sacraments... He never conceals the similarities he discovers, but tends rather to overstate the parallels between Christianity and pagan rites.
2) The early Church Fathers Justin Martyr and Tertullian tried to say that Mithraism copied the Lords Supper from Christianity, but then they were forced to say that demons had copied it since only demons could copy an event in advance of its happening.
I would never date a guy that can't stand up for himself and has to run away. He has to stand up for himself in a peaceful way, because that is the lessons from Jesus. At the same time, we have to take into consideration of what other people say, and put serious thought into it, and not just shoot it down, because the Bible says to question your faith and find answers to reassure yourself that it is the right faith. Lets be honest, there are many fake ones out there.
@Matthew1944 Sometimes you trust the source to a point where you consider everything there to be true, whether it is or not, ie evolution, global warming.
You may trust people, not me, I test all things, if I can't test it or find logical evidence backing it up, I reject it.
@HolyRevelation -test all things, if I can't test it or find logical evidence backing it up, I reject it."
Good, now how about the ark. At 450 feet in length, it would have been 150 feet over the outside limits for a wooden ship. Any wooden ship of that size would not have lasted more than a few weeks before the joints twisted and loosened with the constant motion of water. An American wooden ship, 100 feet shorter, with steel struts,needed pumping constantly and was eventually drydocked
@Matthew1944 Let me get this straght, according to you, the Ark could not float, but he universe could created itself, then used random mutation of unconscious, dead matter to spontaneously generate irreducibly complex languages, codes, information, systems, all accidentally.
There is no point in debating you because you're willing to throw out all logic, reasoning and rational thought in order to justify your untestable, naturalist beliefs.
@HolyRevelation - The ark could not float for very long because it was outside of NATURAL LIMITS for a wooden ship. I don't know how the universe was created and neither do you. You have a book of legends that tries to explain it as primitive men have done in every civilization to date.
@Matthew1944 2) Logic does not support a giant invisible entity that thinks the universe into existance and breaths into dirt to create man. No logic there, HR. Logic, and rational thoughy have never been an ingredien in the myth and magic of religion.
@HolyRevelation@HolyRevelation - Absolutely, SOMETHING created the universe but as I said before, I don't know, you don't know and neither religion nor science really knows. I doubt that anyone ever will.
As far as God goes, we have given him human form but I doubt very much that it is a fact and I doubt also the "he" cares what we believe. Our job seems to be to survive and carry on the species or die and be food for others. Actually, it's well organized so that everyone gets fed.
So you don't know what created anything, you just have blind faith in something other than God.
Hoping that an alternate explanation can someday be found apart from God, is a blind leap of faith, or wishful thinking.
Your scepticism is unjustified, it's unscientific, and no better than anyone else's beliefs. Untill you can give me a logical explanation for the existence of the universe or evidence that I'm wrong about a creator, I don't have to believe that I am wrong.
@HolyRevelation - No I DON'T know how anything was created and neither do you. You believe in a being with human form, I simply feel there is a creative force and admit I don't know much beyond that. I have never felt that my belief is any better than yours, it just isn't the same. You go by "the book" and I feel that the book was written by primitives who were also trying to explain their existance. Other primitives have their own creation story and there are hundreds of them.
@HolyRevelation "Your scepticism is unjustified, it's unscientific"
There you go, pot calling the kettle black. My skepticism comes from the inability to believe in the magical and the invisible - hardly unscientific. For me, "God did it" just doesn't cut it. Certainly everything on this earth is in perfect balance except for human beings who are continually messing it up.
@Matthew1944 3) It's like the blind men and the elephant, HR. You call it God, I say there is something but I don't know anything more, scientists call it the big bang. Each blind man saw something different. None of them were absolutely wrong but none of them were absolutely right either. AND being blind, none of them would ever know either. Just as we will never know.
How fresh do you think they are anyway and does it really matter? To me whoever carved them definitely associated them with the Biblical acct of Noah.
The stones were rather freshly carved, and scientists have actually found instances where whole like that occur naturally, but I can not say that is the case without further examination.
Only a GLOBAL flood supports the location you are talking about. If you want raped on why a global flood in impossible fine, but we are moving on for now.
It wasn't a global flood according to the BIBLE, so why would i need that?
The "boat shape" is definitely not symetrical.
It's as symetrical as a 5000 yr old vessel can get with a little supernatural intervention.
1. The metal traces that were interpreted as iron brackets were actually goethite, a hydrated iron oxide.
You're so sure about that huh? I suppose the wood was not really wood, the chambers inside were not really chambers, the anchor stones were not really anchor stones, etc. Give me a break, you do only care about being right and not about what is right.
Someone can tell lies and that SAME person smetimes can tell the truth, so my point is you can't just throw a claim out because of who said it, you should look at the evidence. Still think its funny?
3. The Hebrew word ehrets should've been trabslated land, it was only that territory making it a local regional flood so those mounts wouldn't matter. Mountains can also be translated "hills'. Nowhere does the Bible say it was rectangular, and it is only a little wider because the deck timbers collapsed and the rib timbers splayed, but it's real close. The length is exact. Did you watch the WHOLE video i sent?
Go for it. Good luck you're going to need it. And don't come back with what some of the other dishonest so-called Christians out there have done, like try and discredit him because he's not a scholarly archaeologist. That's attacking the messenger and not the message or the evidence and is dishonest. And I'm ready for that kind of response anyway.
BTW, attacking someone's credibility is valid, mainly because when they lie repeatedly, and they do so for profit, and only profit, they are no longer a valid source. It shows their motivation, which in court is enough to sentence someone to death. We can play with the fact though. Your comment here about the "so-called Christians" proved yourself as an idiot, but we will move on.
dishonest mockers and cynics are all alike. You don't want to look at the evidence or the message, you'd rather attack the messenger because you can't attack the message.
Don't call me foolish, you're being the fool. Ok let's see if your an honest truth seeker or whether you just don't give a damn. You made a claim you said, "proven incorrect, staged or non-existent". So back it up ! So far you seem like someone more interested in being right, than what is right.
No according to the evidence. How can you be a truth seeker or an honest person without looking at the evidence. I left you a laundry list of evidence we wouldn't even demand from anythng else. I'll send you a link.
Noah's ark is the sort of subject that people would tell stories about.Some people might be motivated by misplaced piety to make up stories.Some have been motivated by money.Others might elaborate a story simply to get attention. For example,they might misinterpret a blurry photograph or a shape seen through fog, or they might conclude that any wood they find is from the ark, although wood has been carried up Ararat in historical times for building crosses &huts.
2. This testimony and the reports are very consistent. It does not matter if people have thought they seen it on different mountains, what matters is where is the evidence, and this one provides the evidence with a whole ship! Not just a broken timber.
1. It doesn't have to be corroborated to be true. This one has many eyewitnesses even a visitors center built from the Turkish Govt. This one has plenty of physical evidence, the wood was retrieved with witnesses on site and on video. Any more?
Yeah, let me tell you buddy, and all human life was wiped out except noah's family. I could rape you with reasons why that is impossible.
Listen hot shot it's a localized regional flood the Bible talks about, so it was not "all human life" as you put it. If you're wrong about that, you should be asking "what else am I wrong about!".
I am debating with the "literal" nut cases that think it is a global flood not people who think it was a regional flood. Either way, there was no flood that a person named noah was a part of, it was stolen from the Sumerians.
No, because there are many flood stories over hundreds of years, and the initial one that all the others are based off of it a regional flood with no animals other than livestock on board. PLUS, given the amount of water on Earth in the air, ice and other, the Earth would only be 5% less land area than it is today. Everything goes against a global flood.
And you play dirty games blocking people from posting and proving you wrong. I am calling you out on it now, and defending Nidodson.
In the oldest known version of the story, it was a river flood, the guy tore down his house and turned it into a boat, and it was only livestock, and 7 days floating in the flood.
The local river flood IS the same story as Gilgamesh, the story the Bible's great flood story is based off of, and ALL other great flood stories.
Atrahasis, is the story. Research it, and research it well. There is a clear blatant connection between it and Gilgamesh, which has a clear connection between it and the Bible's altered version of the story too.
It is the same story, it does explain all the stories that came from it. Do your own research, earn your right to debate.
What evidence besides similarity do you have for accusing people all over the world of plagiarism?
It's estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.
Which is harder to believe, that all of these ancient civilizations somehow know about Gilgamesh or that they all got flooded?
If you actually knew something about geology, chemistry, and other natural sciences, plus psychology, I would definitely say that they all got flooded.
We see many stories repeated throughout mythology.
We have Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Horus/Osiris, Zoroster, Mithras, Attis, Dionysus/Bacchus, and 100s of other characters in mythology that repeat much of what Jesus and these other guys did.
We also the garden of eden is a story that repeated a lot, a creation story and others.
"all of these other gods, were nothing like Jesus."
Christianity and Mithraism were almost identical and existed side by side in Rome for 200 years, causing Tertullian and Justin Martyr to complain that they were the "Devil's work" by copying christianity. Mithraism lost ground when christianity was made the state religion late in the fourth century.
Oh yea, and I suppose there is a man-made boat with rivets evenly spaced, chambers throughout, made of wood, the right size (this is huge), right location (huge), at 6300 ft. above sea level, with anchor stones nearby, that fits the Biblical account to a tee, is all coincidence!! That's being a hypocrite, you wouldn't demand that much evidence for anything else! Maybe the Sumerian thing is made up?!?
Rivets, nails, bolts and screws had yet to be invented during the time of said diluvian flood.
"with anchor stones nearby"
Ever seen these "anchor stones"? They have crosses on many of them. Hmmmm, crucifiction had yet to be invented and Jesus was a long way off into the future. Archeology has verified these monoliths as observation stones. The holes receive eyepieces which serve as surveying equpment for the stars and/or land formations.
Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the "Metals of Earth".
Azazel taught men the art of working metals into bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all coloring tinctures. There arose much godlessness, and they began to commit fornication, and they were led astray and became corrupt in all their ways!
No sir. You're talking about body adornments and light armaments. I'm speaking of boats, a REALLY large one. Think about it, why would rivets be found but not metal plates, huh? Rivets do no good with wood alone. There HAS to be metal plates for the rivets. This seems to be a huge oversight on whoever seems to have fabricated the "rivets found" story.
The crosses may be recent, it doesn't matter. All the means is the people that did it were associating the area with Noah, hence 8 crosses. No they're anchor stones. It's a known fact that same style of anchor stones were used for millenia. In Noahs day they were experts in metals, it even says in the Bible.
Perhaps a look at the "anchor stones of arzap" video would help you visualize how these stones were originally used.
You actually think multi-thousand pound stones can handle their own weight for a full year on the ocean with only several inch thick loops atop them? Have you examined the photos of these stones?!?!
Also, it seems pretty wierd that most of them have stepping stones sitting in front of them so as to make the holes at eye level...
Oh, did I forget to mention that these stones are made from local rock from the surrounding landscape. Seems kinda wierd that "anchor stones" would be made in (what is now) Turkey and then moved to mesopotamia for a powerless boatride right back to the very location they were made.
With the evidence that the Turkey government has required before creating a national park around the ark I would have to say it is foolish to shoot from the hip and make a comment like this before looking into it further yourself.
hehe are you blind or what ? the boat is there to see. PIck up your glasses and look ! nevermind who found it, just look and read. Ancres, boat, villages with names like "The boat past by here"...etc...open your mind kid and heart and look....for real !
There is no boat. When they went to look for it, they realize it was a rock with snow on it, and just a visual illusion. Open your eyes dude, this guy made fat cash from fooling people like you to donate money to him.
@JohnAThornton In regard to Ron Watson's common sense. You credit him with looking for Noah's Ark on Ararat. And lo what happens Ron discovers the Ark in the very spot he looks. I think you should look up the term confirmation bias. Ron wants an Ark on Ararat so Ron gets one, even if it is just rock formation that looks vaguely ship like. I
ma049 1 month ago
@JohnAThornton The idea that Archeologist would NOT investigate compelling evidence of a giant bronze ship is ludicrous. Don't trust me, look up the number and range of different phd's submitted by archeology post grads and you will see that they are covering a lot if basis. The idea that not a single archeologists can be prevailed upon to study what would be the greatest discovery in the history archeology is silly.
ma049 1 month ago
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BLESSED ART THOU OH LORD OUR GOD KING OF THE UNIVERSE, FOR THOU BRINGETH FORTH THE TRUTH THE K I N G IS C O M I N G, PLEASE GO TO MY CHANNEL GOD WANTS TO BLESS YOU WITH HIS WITNESS,
THE BLOOD OF HIS SON, HE GAVE HIS SON TO DIE FOR YOU, ACCEPT JESUS AS LORD TODAY TO BE SAVED ,REPENT READ KJV BIBLE PLEASE ,PLEASE GO TO MY CHANNEL GOD WANTS TO BLESS YOU NOW
hereforthelasttime 10 months ago
How in the world could elephants negotiate a downward descent on the almost vertical wa;;s of a high mountain? Absolutely mpossible! That fact is but one reason any reasonable person would know that Noah's Ark would and could not have come to rest on Mt. Arat, proper. A boat looks like a boat, whether sitting (or buried) on dry land or floating on water (or sitting on the bottom of the ocean. Do you get the picture?
JohnAThornton 11 months ago
@JohnAThornton I never said that everyone must believe Ron, that up to them.
I'm showing people Rons evidence, never said it was 100% proof of Noah's Ark.
To answer your question about elephants negotiating an almost vertical downward descent.
Mountains can grow higher over time, maybe around the time of the flood, Mt. Arat wasn't so tall.
HolyRevelation 11 months ago
@HolyRevelation Whoa NELLIE!! I''m with you 100%, Ron Wyatt was a man after God's own heart, and God reciprocated by giving him more good old common sense than a 10 mile long freight train can haul. Noah's Ark is right where God left it. He showed Ron where it was, and provided the means to get there. The Ark was never "lost", the "scientific" community just didn't have sense enough to know where to look and mostly refused to look in the most logical place of all, "the MOUNTAINS of ARAT"
JohnAThornton 9 months ago
@HolyRevelation Interesting point you touch on there. Orogeny, I mean. In fact it's these very processes that directly rule out a global flood as per a literal reading of Genesis. The amount of heat released as clearly documented by the chemcial composition of the Earth's crust completely rules out the flood. A LOCAL flood? Yeah, sure. There's data that supports that. Happens all the time, and stories do get bigger in the retelling. Global? No way.
NorthForkFisherman 3 months ago
@JohnAThornton
I get the picture better then you can possibly imagine. Image the overhead architectual view of a boat. Now, consider that view and know the timber frame fall away from center by design. Outwards, and for sake of imagery can use a wireframe in your imagination. The image would vaguely resemble a boat, but that is the image is created by the remnants of ancient vessels. Expand the Biblical measurements to adapt to an outwardly collapsed frame. Wyatt found Noah's Ark
waketheoblivious 8 months ago
The end is closer than we think my friends. There are already plans for taxation of churches. I hope everyone sees the truth and chooses to make a decision.
joebarniak 1 year ago
When Evolutionists attempt to eliminate the supernatural God, they must attribute Gods supernatural attributes to the universe. Instead of believing in a super, intelligent, creative God, they believe in a super, intelligent, creative universe.
Evolution is form of eastern, Hindu, mysticism disguised as science.
HolyRevelation 1 year ago
scoffers.... how perfect, all the time fulfilling prophecy in their ignorance.
Godcallingearth 1 year ago
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Pokerislife7 2 years ago
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praise God almighty forever and ever!
snapshot888 2 years ago
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Many people have lied for personal gain. In fact, the motivation of most lies is some perceived benefit to oneself. What could Jesus have hoped to gain from lying about his identity? Power would be the most obvious answer. If people believed he was God, he would have tremendous power. (That is why many ancient leaders, such as the Caesars, claimed divine origin.)-2nd part below
snapshot888 2 years ago
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The rub with this explanation is that Jesus shunned all attempts to move him in the direction of seated power, instead chastising those who abused such power and lived their lives pursuing it. He also chose to reach out to the outcasts (prostitutes and lepers), those without power, creating a network of people whose influence was less than zero. In a way that could only be described as bizarre, all that Jesus did and said moved diametrically in the other direction from power.-3rd part below
snapshot888 2 years ago
It would seem that if power was Jesus motivation, he would have avoided the cross at all costs. Yet, on several occasions, he told his disciples that the cross was his destiny and mission. How would dying on a Roman cross bring one power?-final point at he below
snapshot888 2 years ago
How would dying on a Roman cross bring one power?
1 Corinthians 1:18
The preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that are perishing; but to us who are saved it is the power of God.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
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Death, of course, brings all things into proper focus. And while many martyrs have died for a cause they believed in, few have been willing to die for a known lie. Certainly all hopes for Jesus own personal gain would have ended on the cross. Yet, to his last breath, he would not relinquish his claim of being the unique Son of God. Jesus used the terms Son of Man and Son of God to identify his dual nature as both man and God (See Did Jesus Claim to be God?).2 God be the Glory 4ever n ever
snapshot888 2 years ago
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i pity you, for thinking you are right and for thinking you know. @lligam
snapshot888 2 years ago
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snapshot888 2 years ago
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There was an american who disapprove Jesus,unknowingly dt his country was made under Jesus teaching.-"Ironically, Jeffersons memorable words in the Declaration of Independence were rooted in Jesus teaching that each person is of immense and equal importance to God, regardless of sex, race, or social status. The famous document sets forth, We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights
snapshot888 2 years ago
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Jesus greatness was obvious to all those who saw and heard him. But, whereas most great people simply fade into history books, Jesus of Nazareth is still the focus of numerous books and media controversy.Within three years, Jesus changed the world for the next 20 centuries. Other moral and religious leaders have left an impact---but nothing like that unknown carpenter from Nazareth.
snapshot888 2 years ago
HolyRevelation,
Could you please view this documentation and tell me what you think?
Copy and paste the following terms into google and hit enter and the first result should be a PDF file, that would be the one. The pertinent information is on pages 78-80:
ararat archaeological survey
twothlesswonder 2 years ago
Correction, pages 78-81.
Thanks
twothlesswonder 2 years ago
When Tertullian applies Christian terminology to the Mysteries he wants to show how similar they are to the Christian sacraments. It never crosses Tertullian's mind that these parallels might be used against Christian sacraments... He never conceals the similarities he discovers, but tends rather to overstate the parallels between Christianity and pagan rites.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
2) The early Church Fathers Justin Martyr and Tertullian tried to say that Mithraism copied the Lords Supper from Christianity, but then they were forced to say that demons had copied it since only demons could copy an event in advance of its happening.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
If anyone has any real arguments I'd love to hear them,so fear, all I'm seeing is alot of internet hoaxes.
If I catch someone lying, being vulgar or spreading disinformation, they will be blocked.
I don't mind when people disagree with me, has different opinions or some reliable evidence to share, I welcome it.
Just make sure that your sources are reliable and unbiased.
It's OK if you put me down but I draw the line at internet hoaxes, lying, spreading disinformation or being vulgar.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
I would never date a guy that can't stand up for himself and has to run away. He has to stand up for himself in a peaceful way, because that is the lessons from Jesus. At the same time, we have to take into consideration of what other people say, and put serious thought into it, and not just shoot it down, because the Bible says to question your faith and find answers to reassure yourself that it is the right faith. Lets be honest, there are many fake ones out there.
Moralogic92 2 years ago
Truth between candid minds can never do harm. Thomas Jefferson:
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei:
Tolerance and apathy are the
last virtues of a dying society. Aristotle:
The world is a dangerous place,
not because of those who do evil,
but because of those who look on
and do nothing. Albert Einstein:
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
Interesting that you should quote Jefferson (diest), Galileo Galilei (lifelong house arrest by the church), Aristotle (pagan) and Einstein (deist).
Matthew1944 2 years ago
Even if the devil himself made a true statement, that statement is still true.
Truth is truth regardless of the source.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
"Truth is truth regardless of the source. "
Right, except sometimes we trust the source to a point where we consider everything there to be true, whether it is or not.
Matthew1944 2 years ago
@Matthew1944 Sometimes you trust the source to a point where you consider everything there to be true, whether it is or not, ie evolution, global warming.
You may trust people, not me, I test all things, if I can't test it or find logical evidence backing it up, I reject it.
HolyRevelation 1 year ago
@HolyRevelation -test all things, if I can't test it or find logical evidence backing it up, I reject it."
Good, now how about the ark. At 450 feet in length, it would have been 150 feet over the outside limits for a wooden ship. Any wooden ship of that size would not have lasted more than a few weeks before the joints twisted and loosened with the constant motion of water. An American wooden ship, 100 feet shorter, with steel struts,needed pumping constantly and was eventually drydocked
Matthew1944 1 year ago
@Matthew1944 Let me get this straght, according to you, the Ark could not float, but he universe could created itself, then used random mutation of unconscious, dead matter to spontaneously generate irreducibly complex languages, codes, information, systems, all accidentally.
There is no point in debating you because you're willing to throw out all logic, reasoning and rational thought in order to justify your untestable, naturalist beliefs.
HolyRevelation 1 year ago
@HolyRevelation - The ark could not float for very long because it was outside of NATURAL LIMITS for a wooden ship. I don't know how the universe was created and neither do you. You have a book of legends that tries to explain it as primitive men have done in every civilization to date.
Matthew1944 1 year ago
@Matthew1944 2) Logic does not support a giant invisible entity that thinks the universe into existance and breaths into dirt to create man. No logic there, HR. Logic, and rational thoughy have never been an ingredien in the myth and magic of religion.
Matthew1944 1 year ago
@Matthew1944 It is natural to ascribe intelligence to that which appears designed, the laws of physics, the universe and life, appear to be designed.
Laws of causality, something created the universe, mind or matter?
Any intellectually honest person would admit that random mutation of unconscious, dead matter can not create living, conscious, biological machines.
Languages, codes, information and systems can only be the product of an intelligent mind, matter can not create languages.
HolyRevelation 1 year ago
@HolyRevelation @HolyRevelation - Absolutely, SOMETHING created the universe but as I said before, I don't know, you don't know and neither religion nor science really knows. I doubt that anyone ever will.
As far as God goes, we have given him human form but I doubt very much that it is a fact and I doubt also the "he" cares what we believe. Our job seems to be to survive and carry on the species or die and be food for others. Actually, it's well organized so that everyone gets fed.
Matthew1944 1 year ago
@Matthew1944
So you don't know what created anything, you just have blind faith in something other than God.
Hoping that an alternate explanation can someday be found apart from God, is a blind leap of faith, or wishful thinking.
Your scepticism is unjustified, it's unscientific, and no better than anyone else's beliefs. Untill you can give me a logical explanation for the existence of the universe or evidence that I'm wrong about a creator, I don't have to believe that I am wrong.
HolyRevelation 1 year ago
@HolyRevelation - No I DON'T know how anything was created and neither do you. You believe in a being with human form, I simply feel there is a creative force and admit I don't know much beyond that. I have never felt that my belief is any better than yours, it just isn't the same. You go by "the book" and I feel that the book was written by primitives who were also trying to explain their existance. Other primitives have their own creation story and there are hundreds of them.
Matthew1944 1 year ago
@HolyRevelation "Your scepticism is unjustified, it's unscientific"
There you go, pot calling the kettle black. My skepticism comes from the inability to believe in the magical and the invisible - hardly unscientific. For me, "God did it" just doesn't cut it. Certainly everything on this earth is in perfect balance except for human beings who are continually messing it up.
Matthew1944 1 year ago
@Matthew1944 3) It's like the blind men and the elephant, HR. You call it God, I say there is something but I don't know anything more, scientists call it the big bang. Each blind man saw something different. None of them were absolutely wrong but none of them were absolutely right either. AND being blind, none of them would ever know either. Just as we will never know.
Matthew1944 1 year ago
Check "100 categories of Evidence against a Worldwide flood".
evcforum(dot)net/cgi-bin/dm(dot)cgi?action=msg&f=17&t=198&m=1
LoraSinger 2 years ago
you can call it mythology if you want, any thnking person can tell it is a prevalent human attitude today.
stevehauk 2 years ago
The pharisees said this AFTER Christ had just ressurected Lzarus mind you:
Joh 11:48 if we let him alone , all will believe in him; and the Romans will come, and will take away both our place and nation.'
Just goes to show you what can happen if you stop your ears and harden your heart, but at least you're looking into it.
stevehauk 2 years ago
How fresh do you think they are anyway and does it really matter? To me whoever carved them definitely associated them with the Biblical acct of Noah.
stevehauk 2 years ago
The stones were rather freshly carved, and scientists have actually found instances where whole like that occur naturally, but I can not say that is the case without further examination.
Looks like we agree on something.
stevehauk 2 years ago
Only a GLOBAL flood supports the location you are talking about. If you want raped on why a global flood in impossible fine, but we are moving on for now.
It wasn't a global flood according to the BIBLE, so why would i need that?
The "boat shape" is definitely not symetrical.
It's as symetrical as a 5000 yr old vessel can get with a little supernatural intervention.
stevehauk 2 years ago
1. The metal traces that were interpreted as iron brackets were actually goethite, a hydrated iron oxide.
You're so sure about that huh? I suppose the wood was not really wood, the chambers inside were not really chambers, the anchor stones were not really anchor stones, etc. Give me a break, you do only care about being right and not about what is right.
stevehauk 2 years ago
Someone can tell lies and that SAME person smetimes can tell the truth, so my point is you can't just throw a claim out because of who said it, you should look at the evidence. Still think its funny?
stevehauk 2 years ago
4. ??? 5. It's not a synclinal structure, it has chambers, rivets, etc. EVENLY SPACED.
Fasold died a believer.
2. There was wood with elemental carbon associated (didn't you watch it?!?). I'll send you another link with the arguments.
stevehauk 2 years ago
3. The Hebrew word ehrets should've been trabslated land, it was only that territory making it a local regional flood so those mounts wouldn't matter. Mountains can also be translated "hills'. Nowhere does the Bible say it was rectangular, and it is only a little wider because the deck timbers collapsed and the rib timbers splayed, but it's real close. The length is exact. Did you watch the WHOLE video i sent?
stevehauk 2 years ago
Go for it. Good luck you're going to need it. And don't come back with what some of the other dishonest so-called Christians out there have done, like try and discredit him because he's not a scholarly archaeologist. That's attacking the messenger and not the message or the evidence and is dishonest. And I'm ready for that kind of response anyway.
stevehauk 2 years ago
BTW, attacking someone's credibility is valid, mainly because when they lie repeatedly, and they do so for profit, and only profit, they are no longer a valid source. It shows their motivation, which in court is enough to sentence someone to death. We can play with the fact though. Your comment here about the "so-called Christians" proved yourself as an idiot, but we will move on.
nidodson 2 years ago
dishonest mockers and cynics are all alike. You don't want to look at the evidence or the message, you'd rather attack the messenger because you can't attack the message.
stevehauk 2 years ago
Don't call me foolish, you're being the fool. Ok let's see if your an honest truth seeker or whether you just don't give a damn. You made a claim you said, "proven incorrect, staged or non-existent". So back it up ! So far you seem like someone more interested in being right, than what is right.
stevehauk 2 years ago
Staged?!? What kind of BS kop-out is that?
stevehauk 2 years ago
According to your BS resources.
No according to the evidence. How can you be a truth seeker or an honest person without looking at the evidence. I left you a laundry list of evidence we wouldn't even demand from anythng else. I'll send you a link.
stevehauk 2 years ago
Noah's ark is the sort of subject that people would tell stories about.Some people might be motivated by misplaced piety to make up stories.Some have been motivated by money.Others might elaborate a story simply to get attention. For example,they might misinterpret a blurry photograph or a shape seen through fog, or they might conclude that any wood they find is from the ark, although wood has been carried up Ararat in historical times for building crosses &huts.
4 words: look at the evidence
stevehauk 2 years ago
2. This testimony and the reports are very consistent. It does not matter if people have thought they seen it on different mountains, what matters is where is the evidence, and this one provides the evidence with a whole ship! Not just a broken timber.
stevehauk 2 years ago
1. It doesn't have to be corroborated to be true. This one has many eyewitnesses even a visitors center built from the Turkish Govt. This one has plenty of physical evidence, the wood was retrieved with witnesses on site and on video. Any more?
stevehauk 2 years ago
Atheists/Evolutionists are closed minded, they will reject any and all evidence that contradicts their theories.
The people who claim that there is no evidence of the boat are the same people who believe in evolution without any evidence.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
Yeah, let me tell you buddy, and all human life was wiped out except noah's family. I could rape you with reasons why that is impossible.
Listen hot shot it's a localized regional flood the Bible talks about, so it was not "all human life" as you put it. If you're wrong about that, you should be asking "what else am I wrong about!".
stevehauk 2 years ago
I am debating with the "literal" nut cases that think it is a global flood not people who think it was a regional flood. Either way, there was no flood that a person named noah was a part of, it was stolen from the Sumerians.
nidodson 2 years ago
Let me get this straight nidodson:
You think that because the Sumerians and most other cultures and civilizations have a flood story, that it somehow disproves the flood story.
lol, that's a good one, nice logic.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
No, because there are many flood stories over hundreds of years, and the initial one that all the others are based off of it a regional flood with no animals other than livestock on board. PLUS, given the amount of water on Earth in the air, ice and other, the Earth would only be 5% less land area than it is today. Everything goes against a global flood.
nidodson 2 years ago
the initial one that all the others are based off of it a regional flood with no animals other than livestock on board.
All of the flood stories that I'v hear of tell of a global flood and with animals on board.
I'm going to go check out the Sumerian flood story right now and if animals were involved, I'm going to block you for spreading disinformation.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
I'v got some bad news for you nidodson:
I was right, the Sumerian flood story all most matches the Bible story exactly.
You need to get your facts straight before you tell people that they're wrong.
You're just playing games on here, so your gone.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
And you play dirty games blocking people from posting and proving you wrong. I am calling you out on it now, and defending Nidodson.
In the oldest known version of the story, it was a river flood, the guy tore down his house and turned it into a boat, and it was only livestock, and 7 days floating in the flood.
TruthistEvo 2 years ago
This local river flood has nothing to do with the great flood of the Bible.
Nidodson was lying by saying that there aren't great flood stories all around the world that mirror the genesis account.
This river story that you speak of does not explain all of the great flood stories all over the world.
But, I will give you one chance to back up what you say.
I haven't heard of this river story that your talking about, what is your source?
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
The local river flood IS the same story as Gilgamesh, the story the Bible's great flood story is based off of, and ALL other great flood stories.
Atrahasis, is the story. Research it, and research it well. There is a clear blatant connection between it and Gilgamesh, which has a clear connection between it and the Bible's altered version of the story too.
It is the same story, it does explain all the stories that came from it. Do your own research, earn your right to debate.
TruthistEvo 2 years ago
What evidence besides similarity do you have for accusing people all over the world of plagiarism?
It's estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.
Which is harder to believe, that all of these ancient civilizations somehow know about Gilgamesh or that they all got flooded?
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
If you actually knew something about geology, chemistry, and other natural sciences, plus psychology, I would definitely say that they all got flooded.
We see many stories repeated throughout mythology.
We have Jesus, Krishna, Buddha, Horus/Osiris, Zoroster, Mithras, Attis, Dionysus/Bacchus, and 100s of other characters in mythology that repeat much of what Jesus and these other guys did.
We also the garden of eden is a story that repeated a lot, a creation story and others.
Research more.
TruthistEvo 2 years ago
If you actually knew something about real history, you'd know that Horus and all of these other gods, were nothing like Jesus.
If these hoaxes were true, Jesus would have been easily debunked years ago and no one would believe the Bible today.
You have been listening to people like Bill Maher to long, you and Bill are 100% wrong.
These things exist "NOWHERE" in ancient mythology.
These are all proven hoaxes that you're spreading, and you tell me to "Research more" lol. your blocked
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
"all of these other gods, were nothing like Jesus."
Christianity and Mithraism were almost identical and existed side by side in Rome for 200 years, causing Tertullian and Justin Martyr to complain that they were the "Devil's work" by copying christianity. Mithraism lost ground when christianity was made the state religion late in the fourth century.
innvista(dot)com/culture/religion/deities/mithra(dot)htm
LoraSinger 2 years ago
"by copying christianity"
And by copying Christianity, what was even more astounding to them was that Mithraism had copied Christianity BEFORE there was a Christianity.
LoraSinger 2 years ago
These are all proven hoaxes that you're spreading, the internet is full of them.
I suggest that you do some more research before you make claims like this.
If these hoaxes were true, Jesus would have been easily debunked years ago and no one would believe the Bible today.
Don't just take my word for it, go look it up for yourself, there are many reliable sources, here one of them.
pleaseconvinceme Horus Myth
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
Oh yea, and I suppose there is a man-made boat with rivets evenly spaced, chambers throughout, made of wood, the right size (this is huge), right location (huge), at 6300 ft. above sea level, with anchor stones nearby, that fits the Biblical account to a tee, is all coincidence!! That's being a hypocrite, you wouldn't demand that much evidence for anything else! Maybe the Sumerian thing is made up?!?
stevehauk 2 years ago
"I suppose there is a man-made boat with rivets"
Rivets, nails, bolts and screws had yet to be invented during the time of said diluvian flood.
"with anchor stones nearby"
Ever seen these "anchor stones"? They have crosses on many of them. Hmmmm, crucifiction had yet to be invented and Jesus was a long way off into the future. Archeology has verified these monoliths as observation stones. The holes receive eyepieces which serve as surveying equpment for the stars and/or land formations.
twothlesswonder 2 years ago
You're wrong
Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the "Metals of Earth".
Azazel taught men the art of working metals into bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all coloring tinctures. There arose much godlessness, and they began to commit fornication, and they were led astray and became corrupt in all their ways!
This is Before the flood!
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
"You're wrong"
No sir. You're talking about body adornments and light armaments. I'm speaking of boats, a REALLY large one. Think about it, why would rivets be found but not metal plates, huh? Rivets do no good with wood alone. There HAS to be metal plates for the rivets. This seems to be a huge oversight on whoever seems to have fabricated the "rivets found" story.
twothlesswonder 2 years ago
The crosses may be recent, it doesn't matter. All the means is the people that did it were associating the area with Noah, hence 8 crosses. No they're anchor stones. It's a known fact that same style of anchor stones were used for millenia. In Noahs day they were experts in metals, it even says in the Bible.
stevehauk 2 years ago
That's right stevehauk, those anchor stones are genuine. "observation stones" lol
bolts and screws had yet to be invented during the time of said diluvian flood:
Over and over again Atheists who clearly have little to no understanding of the Bible make false claims.
If they don't believe what the Bible says, that's one thing but adding to and subtracting from the Bible is disingenuous.
HolyRevelation 2 years ago
"No they're anchor stones."
Perhaps a look at the "anchor stones of arzap" video would help you visualize how these stones were originally used.
You actually think multi-thousand pound stones can handle their own weight for a full year on the ocean with only several inch thick loops atop them? Have you examined the photos of these stones?!?!
Also, it seems pretty wierd that most of them have stepping stones sitting in front of them so as to make the holes at eye level...
twothlesswonder 2 years ago
Not to mention several being found with the eyepieces STILL in them...
Can you just ignore or dismiss such findings without so much as examination or reasoning?
twothlesswonder 2 years ago
Oh, did I forget to mention that these stones are made from local rock from the surrounding landscape. Seems kinda wierd that "anchor stones" would be made in (what is now) Turkey and then moved to mesopotamia for a powerless boatride right back to the very location they were made.
Can you just dismiss this observation too?
twothlesswonder 2 years ago
With the evidence that the Turkey government has required before creating a national park around the ark I would have to say it is foolish to shoot from the hip and make a comment like this before looking into it further yourself.
zarinrs 2 years ago
hehe are you blind or what ? the boat is there to see. PIck up your glasses and look ! nevermind who found it, just look and read. Ancres, boat, villages with names like "The boat past by here"...etc...open your mind kid and heart and look....for real !
Cockraine 2 years ago
There is no boat. When they went to look for it, they realize it was a rock with snow on it, and just a visual illusion. Open your eyes dude, this guy made fat cash from fooling people like you to donate money to him.
nidodson 2 years ago
JESUS IS GOD
YaOkRight 3 years ago 2