Heaven's Gate - Michael Cimino

[TimCollinsATL]

After hearing about the tumultuous production, the critics WANTED to hate it. It was a self fulfilling prophecy.

[007koko007]

But I only understand her, not him :)

[007koko007]

I am from Croatia and if I'm not wrong, that woman at the end of the video is speaking Croatian language. I can understand her every word. Kovač is also common Croatian surname.

[MeisterKeime]

one of the greatest movie in cinema history:)greets from germany

[CenyddRos]

A great many truly magnificent films never turn a profit. This is the price of art. On the flip side, many of the most economically successful films are actually garbage directed by people who should be limited to doing TV commercials.

[CenyddRos]

People who describe this scene as "pretentious" remind me of monkies commenting on Rembrandt.

[alessandrosoresini]

this is a masterpiece. nothing else to say

[biffula]

@alessandrosoresini a masterpiece of suck.

[blablaidontcarewhour]

Thank you Mr. (Now Mrs.) Cimino for making it impossible to finance creative projects. I love The Deer Hunter, and I hate this film.

[ar4216]

Animals were abused and killed to make this boring piece of shit film.

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

1. Animals were abused and killed in movies before. But before the 1980's there literally were no "animal rights" groups that preached like the worst tele-evangelists.

2. "Heaven's Gate" wasn't "Cannibal Holocaust" which was released the same year. In that one the torture and brutal killing of animals was part of the shocking plot.

3. As a troll you're not very convincing. Animals are abused and killed to make that food you eat daily!

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes You're defending the abuse and killing of animals for entertainment- that's an outrageous position to take. If you are not serious it is you who are the troll and if you are serious you need mental help. Only a true piece of shit gets off on seeing animals tortured. Either way, fuck you.

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

Complain about "Cannibal Holocaust" and not "Heaven's Gate". If you're serious.

I never said I defended the killing of animals for entertainment, merely that you are totally lost when you find THAT to be the thing that set the movie apart. A few horses were killed making "Heaven's Gate" an infinitely more other animals suffer to make medicines, hygiene products and make-up but you don't complain about that do you??

I suggest you drop dead or you lost Peta wacko.

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes You can try and claim you're not defending the abuse and killing of animals for your entertainment but it's clear you are. You try and minimize it by claiming Cannibal Holocaust is far worse and then bringing up animals killed for food and experiments. But this is not about those things, it's about Heaven's Gate. Do you have a problem with what Cimino did? It's clear you do not. Thus you have no problem with the killing of animals for your entertainment. Sick.

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

Sigh. What are you smoking??

Are you trying to say Cimino did "Heaven's Gate" just so that he could kill a few horses for people's entertainment? Are you trying to convince me that was what killed the movie? You're insane.

No, I do NOT have a problem with what Cimino did because the "evil" you claim he did is such an insignificant matter next to the shockwaves the movie sent through Hollywood and the movie industry worldwide.

Why do you have such a one-track mind?

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes If you think what Cimino did to the horses is a trivial matter and justifiable I think you have a warped take on things And one of the shockwaves this film sent through Hollywood is that we saw a weakening of the power held by the auteur and a shift of control to the studios. It also helped to destroy United Artists. I don't think either of those developments were positive. Beyond that, I don't think the film is that good. Gorgeous cinematography, bad film.

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes Zsigmond was the genius on this film, not Cimino.

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

And I have you figured out. The only reason you even heard about "Heaven's Gate" is because those weed smoking friends of yours mentioned "innocent animals were killed in the making". You're not even interested in movie making.

Of all the critique "Heaven's Gate" got nobody, I mean nobody cried their eyes out for a few horses that most likely had no idea what would happen to them.

What's next, you're going to "Patton" and say he was rotten because he shot a peasant's donkey?

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes I tried to be nice but it's clear you really are a dbag. LOL!

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes "weed smoking friends", "PETA", etc. And you won't to deny you're a rightwinger? You've got all the concerns of a rightwing tool- therefore it's safe to assume you are one you sick freak. HaHa! Be honest, do most people who deal with you think you're an asshole? If you can at least admit that I'll think better of you. Do you enjoy being an ignorant dick? Listen to a lot of talk radio? Watch a lot of Fox News? What kind of car do you drive?

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

Go stand outside McDonald's and protest against them using slave labor, chopping down rain forests and poisoning people with the oil they use to make their fries, if you're out on some crusade.

Coming here and bashing "Heaven's Gate" as if that movie was the Holocaust and the most evil thing in the world imaginable shoots you dead in the water from the very start.

You're complaining about dust on a table in a room that's on fire! Get your "noble" priorities right.

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes Yes, try and exaggerate what I said. Nowhere did I say what happened on this movie was comparable to the holocaust. I get it, you're a douchebag. Will you at least admit that? Most people who know you think you're a prick, right? "McLaren Mercedes"- LOL! Guarantee you're a condescending jackoff. You love cars huh? LMAO! And you hate PETA. So you're a right wing dbag at that. This isn't about them. It's about what Cimino had done and your defense of it. Moron.

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes Yes, try and exaggerate what I said. Nowhere did I say what happened on this movie was comparable to the holocaust. I get it, you're a douchebag. Will you at least admit that? Most people who know you think you're a prick, right? "McLaren Mercedes"- LOL! Guarantee you're a condescending jackoff. You love cars huh? LMAO! And you hate PETA. So you're a right wing dbag at that. This isn't about them. It's about what Cimino had done and your defense of it. Moron.

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

You're dodging the subject.

Since you can't prove me wrong you call me douchebag. Let's me assure you that I do more good every week than you have done in your entire life. I know your kind. The kind that preaches about "innocent animals" but never gives change to a homeless person. A disgusting misanthrope with glued on false morals

"What Cimino has done..." Well, there you go again.You're portraying the guy as an evil man who's movie was bad because a few horses were killed

[ar4216]

@McLarenMercedes None of us are perfect and live a life free of inflicting pain on other living things- but that doesn't mean we should give up and make excuses for cruelty. That is what you have done. You seem to have no problem with what Cimino did. I do. Oh well. We're different. Maybe you're not that big of a dbag. Just like you don't know me and what I do for those less fortunate I don't know you.

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

Newflash. Most people hate Peta. Not just "right wing" people if you thought that. They are classified as a organization that supports arsonists and methods of terror.

They are complete wackos with the most repulsive set of moral standards ever.

Btw, stop with those LOL and LMAO if you want people to take you seriously and not assume you're some butthurt teenager out on some "noble crusade" to make the world realize "Heaven's Gate" flopped because a few horses were killed.

[McLarenMercedes]

@ar4216

And I don't know why I waste my time arguing with a complete idiot who can't even back up his/her own fickle opinions.

You're flagged. Hitler may have been an evil man, but he was right about one thing: Two different standpoints means nothing in themselves. It's only when one side defeats the other that we see who was right and who was wrong. Since he lost the war he was clearly wrong, but had he won it he'd been considered a genius.

You don't get the big picture. Never will

[crustyeyegoop]

When I was young, my friends aunt told us Kris Kristofferson and Salvestor Stallon *spell check* did porn flicks before mainstream hollywood. It turned out to be true but doesnt show up on their bio pages of films LOL. This is good cinimatic stuff though.

[showmasterman]

Yes anyone can indulge themselves in anything but what a bunch of excess pretentious crap when it comes to story telling. Everyone in this boat learned the hard way that money corrupts absolutely...especially a directors vision. And we've seen a lot more ships like this one...

[knownpleasures]

not sure of its plot importance but a cimino scene masterpiece

[zigilwantsu]

just this useless pretentious scene can ruin an entire movie! what crap.

[osopolar61]

The French are always ahead of everybody. France is the center of the world. United States has been always a province. And my name is Michael, not Jean Luc.

[osopolar61]

By the way, the prologue alone is one of the greatest moments of cinema.

[JuanMacready]

@osopolar61 The prologue was completely pointless and John Hurt and Kris Kristofferson were both far too old to play students.

[LittelRedFromThaHood]

This is flat out my favorite movie -- in its 219 min version anyway. I don't even understand complaints about slow pacing. It's the shortest long movie I've ever seen. I breathe a sigh of relief every time I remind myself how close Cimino came to not even getting a chance to shoot the prologue.

[osopolar61]

This movie is not for everybody. I understand people who say it is slow, boring and extremely long; because most of us grew up watching the films of Spielberg. The problem with Cimino is that he was an artist, probably the only artist of his generation along with Terrence Malick. I am glad he took his chance, because he probably knew he was making his last movie (the movies he made after Heaven's Gate were far from being personal projects).

[MeisterKeime]

a wonderful movie in my opinion...for me one of the greatest movies ever made...i think the audience dont like this movie because in this movie, the good great american are the villains...a very underrated movie....greets from germany

[Brianruns10]

How did you get this clip? Krisofferson's Voice Over narration clearly shows it's from the shortened theatrical release version, which I am to understand has NEVER been released on home video. I've always wanted to see this version, to compare with the more well known, and available version, the notorious long version which was withdrawn after a few days, but later released on DVD as the directors' cut.

[MeatballsMarlowe]

I haven't seen this movie so I can't really judge it. However, based on just watching this clip and how lengthy it is, I think I more or less get a sense of the problem. This scene is very meticulous, and shows great technical artistry, but feels very cold, and what little emotion there is is ruined by how long it's all dragged out.

[mkn638]

I believe that this movie exposed true values of the American society. Greed, cruelty, and murder as the best and the only way to solve all the problems. This is probably why the film is hated so much in the States. Old people say: "Don't blame a mirror if your face is ugly"

[biffula]

@mkn638 while what you say about American society may or may not be true, the reason it's hated is because it's like taking a forced 4 hour talking tour of ones own living room. It is beyond boredom.

[JuanMacready]

It was a fucking joke that John Hurt and the talentless Kristofferson were supposed to be about 21 when they both looked 50.

Worst movie ever made, so glad it flopped.

[CristinaFernandez]

@JuanMacready All of the actors did the best they could and were mostly good in a bad movie, with the notable exception of John Hurt. He just sleepwalked and was just not trying. Worst performance of his career.

[JuanMacready]

@CristinaFernandez Kristofferson simply didn't have what it took to carry the film.

[samswank]

Baron, I may be a philistine, but I like movies that have a coherent story line. I watched more than two hours of this film on DVD with a friend who had a small part in it. It's stunningly photographed, the sets and the costumes are all beautiful, but it goes nowhere fast. Actually, it goes nowhere painfully slow.

[Austyg]

Too thick. He lays it on too thick. Drawnnnnn out sequences, like the lawn dancing on campus. And then he repeats the visual motiff: another round of dancing in a circle, this time by males only. And then the final battle will have more . . . round 'n round going in circles. He rubs it in. And rubs it in.

[JuanMacready]

I will celebrate the talentless loser Kristofferson's death.

[cobolsaurus]

Read the book "Final Cut' by Steven Back and you'll see cimino was an egotistic selfish full of himself asshole...

[cobolsaurus]

Mmm I think that movies like Gone with the wind, dr zhivago, Titanic, came out as a great epics because they had great stories to tell... This story was a small one in content and meaning and couldn't bear the heavy weigth of the ambitious make up of cimino... He took a little story and photographed it as if he was telling a biblical tale. It's as if you took a little tale like "Brokeback mountain" and photographed it as if it were the 10 commandments...

[deaddoc]

@cobolsaurus Couldn't disagree more. This was based on real history, it is the story of perhaps the first real government cover-up of corruption in high places by connected, wealthy interests that allowed and even endorsed the murder of citizens, simply because wealthy men wanted all the land in the state.

[cobolsaurus]

@cobolsaurus besides cimini is a wacko...

[JuanMacready]

Fucking awful movie which rightly flopped.

[itchychinaman]

@ timeoleplusbeau  because America needs blood to be spilled for its foundations............... Unfortunately much of this American blood has soaked the soil of France. The French people did not then and do not now deserve the sacrifices that the American people have made for them. The hatred envy and humiliation of the French people for, and by, the USA consume them. Notice that we are communicating on American invented devices on an American venue (internet) in the English language?

[deaddoc]

@itchychinaman You are worse than igorant. You are the one who seems consumed by hate of the French. The French suffered a bloody revolution and the terrible Reign of Terror because Louie XVl spent so much money supporting the American Revolution.

[timeoleplusbeau]

The beauty and the meaning. And just like it was done THE SAME in the Deer hunter with the Wedding party, it goes shattered because America needs blood to be spilled for its foundations.

[timeoleplusbeau]

The Waltz is the allegretto of their youth and the promise and dreams. Its a metaphor of theirs ranks / longing for luxury as well. They are allowed to fornicate this way because they are said to be the top of the crop. Its a sex / social ladder image. This is how their eve of life. This comes after listening to a speech saying "you are Top gun, go build america", that shows students winking at the ladies. Just look at how they are drawing circles. The beauty and the meaning all in one.

[cobolsaurus]

The waltz sequence alone is too long... He bet on visuals but the storyline lost on that... It's like reading a good story that goes around and around instead of making a straight point.

[7beers]

This clip is fascinating: on the one hand, I think it's great, but on the other hand, if this is an indication of the rest of the movie, I can see why it bombed. Clearly, Cimono was going for another epic like Gone With The Wind, but something is missing.

[elbethere]

what is the name of the song they are singing at 4:33?

[BaronVonPenguin]

You're all philistines. This is one of the greatest American pictures ever made. If only Americans could see that. It pisses on the Deer Hunter. American audiences have no patience when it comes to entertainment just look at baseball and football. Its all bells and whistles and too many breaks in the game. The attention span of nine year olds!!

[7beers]

On the other hand, I rarely read of violence among the fans of American sports, but I do read of such in European football games.

[halbie71]

BaronVonPenguin I would agree with you. I think this movie is a masterpiece!

[deaddoc]

@BaronVonPenguin I'm an American and I agree with you. I also wonder if you know that it is based on real history? The Johnson County Cattle War is the basis of this movie. This movie haunted me so much that I began to research the history. They made some changes, and some familiar with the history don't like that, but they wouldn' have had a good enough story if Cattle Kate had been hung before the climatic battle. The original book by a witness was suppressed for years. I have a copy.

[BaronVonPenguin]

@deaddoc Howdy! Yes I too became obsessed with all things Heaven's Gate including the Historical elements which although are interesting are probably nowhere near as dramatic as the movie. Check out the Final Cut documentary on youtube if you haven't already. I'd love to read that book, whats it called?

[elbethere]

@BaronVonPenguin I am also obsessed with this film, and with it's making. I always wonder what the line is between success and failure.

[milkredbull]

@BaronVonPenguin You're an idiot. Nobody like that likes baseball; its the most boring sport imaginable.

[BaronVonPenguin]

@milkredbull Wha?

[milkredbull]

@BaronVonPenguin Sorry. Too much to drink. Please disregard.

[BaronVonPenguin]

@milkredbull Ha Ha! No worries.

[JuanMacready]

@BaronVonPenguin I hope Kris Kristofferson dies of CANCER.

Soon.

[BaronVonPenguin]

@JuanMacready I'm sure you do.

[CristinaFernandez]

@BaronVonPenguin It doesn't mean I have a slow attention span when I say that nothing is going on in a self-indulgent, pointless scene where nothing is going on.

Also, the way European critics love this movie and Cimino is nothing but pointless contrarianism. If American audiences started to rediscover Cimino, they'd start to re-evaluate their view of this movie. It already happened with former French darling Mickey Rourke; now he's popular again, you can't get French critics to say anything.

[BaronVonPenguin]

@CristinaFernandez 1)Exactly what pointless scene are you talking about? 2)I'm not so sure that European critics love Cimino per se either. As far as I can tell everything he did after this was universally panned although I love Year of The Dragon myself. 3)Are you honestly saying that in France Mickey Rourke's role in The Wrestler went unheralded?5) Your point about Americans re-evaluating Cimino is the point I was making in the first place. It won't happen. EVER.

[Psycho1er]

what an over exaggerated piece of shit movie..

[mrsbrown333]

zzzzzzzzzzz

[wbresl1]

hmm showy and incoherent. a better director would ave made a better movie on a fraction of the budget and a fraction of the runnig time

[jegspillerpiano]

Also The Deerhunter could have been cut nearly in half and still said it all wanted to say, but structure and editing is not Ciminos strong point it seems.

[7beers]

Couldn't agree more that Deer Hunter should have had at least 30 minutes edited out.

[guillatra]

one of my favorite films.

[SinAutor]

Amazing film

[mike1964180]

Saw Kristofferson on tv saying the film was assasinated and unfairly treated. Tell that to the united artists employees (not the bosses) who okeyd a 7million dollar film and wound up with a 40 mil turkey that cost all of them their jobs and most their careers

[yes55]

Yes, later, we see an actual small band obviously playing the "Blue Danube" music, as if to correct the narrative problem mentioned earlier. It might have made more sense to use this band all along - and to have used less immediately familiar music! First time I saw this I thought "When filming this in Oxford did they just put on a tape of the 2001 soundtrack? Did they have people waltzing with no music?" Weird problems like this made almost the most expensive movie ever seem cheap throughout.

[yes55]

Most film-goers already associated this Strauss waltz with 2001, which had used a fairly long sampling of it... so Cimino seems to want to outdo that by making this dancing go on and on and on... it doesn't work. Also: where is the music coming from? It sounds recorded in a modern day studio, but they are obviously dancing to it, the "dance" isn't in our heads like the ships in 2001... so is there some live orchestra playing it somewhere to such perfection which we cannot see? It makes no sense.

[8data]

its a masterpiece!

[hubleywhip]

what a wonderful mix of choreography and photography. like my fair lady crossed with barry lyndon.

[procommenter]

Extensive plastic surgery will make Kristofferson appear youthful!

[Tripp1993]

United Artists died in 1980.

CAUSE OF DEATH: Michael Cimino's "Heaven's Gate", the worst star-studded picture in history.

RESURRECTION: 1981, when MGM bought UA, almost died again in 2005, and was resurrected in 2006 by Tom Cruise and Paula Wagner.

[deaddoc]

@Tripp1993 I wonder how many present critics of this film were alive or old enough to understand the state of things in 1980? This film was merely over the heads of many Americans. And it still is...

[NotHomelessAnymore]

Lol, this scene is awkward on so many levels. Even if you like Heaven's Gate, at least try to appreciate how it sunk United Artists into bankrupcy. Cimino was notorious for bullying producers into extending his budget and schedule and famously blew millions of dollars destroying a set (a whole town) and reconstructing it a few yards along. Creative freedom in Hollywood was no more in the 80's thanks to dumb, expensive projects like this.

[Onaryc59]

"Creative freedom in Hollywood was no more in the 80's thanks to dumb, expensive projects like this." The trouble is, you can't have creative freedom without dumb projects like this sometimes. If all creative freedom was successful, the studios would let it happen all the time. You want creative freedom, you have to accept its failures. Can't have it both ways.

[SinAutor]

this scene contains a masterful display of choreography and photography. the producers even stated " it looks like david lean decided to make a western"

fair enuf it bombed at the box office, but that is no way to gauge how good a film is. the imagery in the film and mise en scene is astounding.

[cinemawonderland]

Gosh, I can't understand why critics hated this film so much when it came out. It's incredible! I mean some even said it was "incompetently photographed," what they hell were they watching?

[shirazhound]

The critics came for a Western and got an opening straight out of Jane Eyre. This flick shoulda opened with K>K> on the train heading to Johnson County.

[trevino22]

thanks for posting