Artificial Intelligence - Flawless?

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

Fail of the video poster.

Ai isn't claimed to be flawless... nothing is/can ever be flawless.

Variations and variables will always interfere.

[austpom333]

I just want something to bring me a drink.

[brianonymous]

It actually looks like his leg failed and collapsed.

[NFSGamerUSA]

ASIMO is controlled by a crew of operators behind the scenes. It has no AI.

[retrocareermelted]

im poud of that little robot, i saw it hauling ass on USnews.

[hendomaster]

the 3 robotic lawrs b4 we make AI

A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

A robot must obey orders given to it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or the Second Law.

[valnx]

thats the 3 laws from movie ''i robot'' you dumbass. dont post shit like this, cos u dont know shit about robotics, and if you watched the movie, that does not make u an expert. so if you dont have anything to say without copying other ideas just STFU!

[hendomaster]

apparently you guys dont understand them laws are REAL when it comes to A.I not just in the movie my friends...when u see a movie on war...does that mean war isnt real? no...you can find this out just oh you know...google even...

[valnx]

this is stupid discusion... ''if i see a movie about war is it real'' wtf man? thats why there are movies called scifi or documentaries and stuf. by the way, if you see a movie about bat man, does that mean he is real? movie ''i robot'' is scifi, the same like matrix, lord of the rings, bat man, spiderman, and other movies like that... so is that all real then? your argument seems kinda silly now if u ask me... :DDD

[hendomaster]

Google, try it *End Convo*

[igoronline]

Actually these are Isaac Asimov's.But it makes total sense to try to put them on A.I. The only problem is how will you stop a heuristic software from remodelling itself? it will eventually rewrite any law to whatever it sees fit.

[myg0tSvenska]

Do not laugh at the robot, for one day he will be your overlord! :D

[jeromewilson]

"just if-then statements" is the new 'shopped.

[magicianspirit]

It looked like a little man in a space suit when it was walking around, but why the long pause before it started climbing? Maybe it was saying, "Guys, do you really think this is a good idea, what with my bum knee and all?"

[magicianspirit]

Why was the picture so small?

[johnking87]

An ant can walk up stairs better and faster than that.

[Bridgerboy]

Or at all, right? XD

[999madcows]

not AI... just if-then statements.

[Dirtfire]

That's pretty much what AI is today.

[Bridgerboy]

That's just boolean logic right? Well there are people who are trying to make AI that goes beyond that.

[Dirtfire]

I know of some, but I don't want to mention it here because they have an online forum that I don't want spammed. It is very interesting, I must say. Expect to start hearing a lot about it in coming years.

[coolmancool1234567]

no shit. that's how our brains work too

[soccom8341576]

well, it doesn't exactly work like that, even though it can be broken down to if then statements. Indeed, almost all control systems can be broken down into such.

The fact that it can be broken down into such statements means nothing.

[BoyintheMachine]

coolmancool1234567: No the brain is far more weirder. On a smal level it is extremely complex, but suprisingly this high complexity merely produces rather simply functions, function that together work to create 'mind'. So the theory is, if the function is what is necessary, perhaps the small and highly complex stuff isn't, which is a lot of the philosophy in action w/ A.I. Reproduce the function.

[sidlan]

Why did they have to hide the robot from the public just because it fells ??

[KurNorock]

It's not AI at all. It is pre-programmed movements or radio control.

Even if it was some kind of vision recognition software, that is still not AI.

[SOEdigital]

Exactly.

[BoyintheMachine]

KurNorock: It's not radio control! I'm not sure how much, if any A.I. programs are used in Asimo, but your definition of A.I. seems a bit underdeveloped.

[BoyintheMachine]

(clarificaiton) I had to second think that, perhaps a radio signal is given but it's not like remote control or anything. Nobody is steering it. If there is a radio signal it is merely to engage a program.

[KurNorock]

Relax. So it isn't RC. That doesn't mean it is AI either. We are a long, long way off from AI.

This little robot is a pre-programed machine at best. The only thing amazing about it is that it shows the future capability of the function we can get from robotics.

My definition of AI is not underdeveloped, it just seems your definition is too encompassing.

[BoyintheMachine]

Perhaps you aren't aware that A.I. is nearly everywhere in our society today?

By typing, "We are a long, long way off from AI.", you were not quite correct. Society is flooded w/ 'Weak A.I.'. The type of A.I. you are referring to seems to be of the 'Strong' variety, a.k.a 'Artificial General Intelligence', the level of intelligence most comparable to human intelligence.

The thing is, it's likely there won't be an 'anouncement' when Strong A.I. has been created.

[KurNorock]

There is no AI anywhere in our society. AI is artificial INTELLIGENCE. Nothing we have even remotely comes close to being able to think on its own. Asimo does not see the stairs and think of the best way to climb them, it simply follows a set of programs that say "If this, then that." and navigates its way like such. It can not learn, or write its own programming, it can not use logic, reason, or memory of past events. It's not self aware. It is just a complicated program, nothing more.

[KurNorock]

It doesn't even come close to fitting the 'weak AI hypothesis'.

Weak AI is a machine that is programmed to ACT like it thinks it has a mind. This isn't AI at all, just clever programing the make it look like AI.

Give me a single example of something in our society that is actual AI.

[BoyintheMachine]

KurNoorock: A.I. is all around you. The problem is that you are stuck on an uninformed prejudice of what YOU belive A.I. is. You will also need to familiarize yourself with the philosophical arguments associated with A.I. For example, one cannot 'prove' someone is conscious/sentient. Instead we assume others are. It will be the same way with A.I. When it reaches the level where we *assume* it to be conscious, then it shall be conscious!

[KurNorock]

I ask for one single example of AI in our society and you accuse me of having a prejudice against AI.

I know what AI is, and I am familiar with the philosophical arguments.

Now, how 'bout an example of AI in our current society?

[BoyintheMachine]

KurNorock: From, BBC NEWS article, "Predicting A.I.'s Future":

"AI is everywhere

In fact, they point out that artificial intelligence already pervades our lives.

Machines will gradually become more intelligent and become more pervasive

Fuel injection systems in our cars use learning algorithms. Jet turbines are designed using genetic algorithms, which are both examples of AI, says Dr Rodney Brooks, the director of MIT's artificial intelligence laboratory..."

[BoyintheMachine]

(Continued)

"Every cell phone call and e-mail is routed using artificial intelligence, says Ray Kurzweil, an AI entrepreneur and the author of two books on the subject, The Age of Intelligent Machines and The Age of Spiritual Machines.

"We have hundreds of examples of what I call narrow AI, which is behaviour that used to require an intelligent adult but that can now be done by a computer," Mr Kurzweil says..."

[BoyintheMachine]

(continued)

""It is narrow because it is within a specific domain, but the actual narrowness is gradually getting a bit broader," he adds."

FYI: You can find countless examples if you would get off your high horse and simply educate yourself on this topic.

[KurNorock]

Oh please. Fuel injection systems do not use any sort of AI. They simply follow pre-programmed instructions to meter different amounts of fuel based on information from various sensors. The computer can not think for itself or decide to do anything other than what it was programmed to do. That is not intelligence, artificial or otherwise. It amounts to nothing more than super complicated clockwork.

[KurNorock]

It is not a learning algorithm. It is simple programmable adjustments. And the computer will always make the same adjustment for a certain sensor input EVERY time, even if the adjustment makes a problem worse. (A problem many mechanics are familiar with) This is not intelligence in the slightest degree, it is just following programming.

Same with the genetic algorithms, cell phone and e-mail routing computers. Just because the computer can replace a human does not make it an AI.

[KurNorock]

And for future reference, you shouldn't resort to ad hominem attacks in a debate. Especially one online.

So don't assume I am on a high horse because I am not. I have no bias, I don't care if there is any AI in our society right now or not. But I haven't seen any evidence of such and so far you have failed to show me any.

The only thing you have shown me so far are examples of the technology that will eventually lead to AI, but is not AI at all, themselves.

[BoyintheMachine]

I can't continue this discussion with you. You are far to ignorant on this subject. Please brush up on the topic. I would suggest your local library as a start.

Also, this subject matter is not controversial. It is accepted by mainstream science, so your notion that I somehow have to *prove* this to you is likewise ignorant. You might as well be askimg me to *prove* to you the earth is spherical. It can be done, but the likely response you'll get is 'educate yourself' on the subject.

[KurNorock]

(translation following..)

"I can't provide any evidence to back my claims and that angers me. Instead of admitting I have no evidence, I choose to belittle you and suggest that you do not know what you are talking about." - BoyintheMachine

Does that about sum it up?

If you could provide me with even one example of real, functional, AI used by society today, I would happily admit I am wrong. But you can't.

[KurNorock]

And not only can you not find anything, you are trying to cover that up by claiming you do not need to provide an example, as if it would violate some moral standard you have to do so.

[BoyintheMachine]

All you are doing is demonstrating your ignorance of the subject, let alone your confusion regarding the term, 'Artificial Intelligence'.

It's not my habit to cater to ignorance. If you would like to educate yourself on this topic, brush up on yoru reading, and then engage in an intelligent discussion then perhaps..

Until then, this discussion is over.

[KurNorock]

Yes, you've already said that.

All I did was ask for a single example of AI in use in our society. You are the one that made the claim, I am simply asking for an example.

It seems it would have been much less of a hassle to you to name a device of some sort instead of verbally attacking me.

Whether you are wrong or right, your own arrogance is in your way.

If you can't name even a single example, admit it and move on. If you can, let's hear it.

[BoyintheMachine]

No, what you are doing is trying to nitpick over the term 'Intelligence', trying to debate someone on that ground, never knowing that countless others have done so.  So why not do your homework instead of going on youtube to demand someone engage you in this fashion?

You might begin your journey with two topics, 1.) The Turing Test, and 2.) The Chinese Room arguement. Both are loved and hated by many. Both have valid criticisms.

[KurNorock]

lol

Is it really so hard?

I am not nitpicking over the term 'intelligence' I am simply asking for a single example of AI.

I am not asking for self awareness, or emotion, or anything of that sort. I am just asking for an example of a machine that does not simply follow 'if-then' commands.

Instead of simply naming a device, which may take a total of 10 or 15 letters, you type out a whole long response attacking my character, of which you know nothing about.

[BoyintheMachine]

This has nothing to do with your character and I haven't attacked your character at all. You are simply ignorant on this subject. Don't be ashamed, as Will Rogers sadi, 'Everyone is ignorant, only on differing subjects.' Now, please take the time to educate yourself.

As I stated before, I will not get into a debate about what you define as 'Intelligence'.

Have a nice day.

[KurNorock]

Where am I asking for a debate about the definition of intelligence? I am not asking that.

I am just asking for a single example of a device or program that does not run on if-then commands.

It has been over a week and you simply can not, or will not do it.

You are right, this debate is over. You can't supply any evidence for your claims other than simply asserting them as true.

[BoyintheMachine]

There is no debate. You are ignorant on the subject. I have made no claim.

Please educate yourself on this subject.

I stated that A.I. was all around us in our society and quoted you an article by an expert to back it up. Case closed.

[KurNorock]

You stating that AI is all around us IS a claim. I asked for a single example, and instead of that, you give me a link to a video with some experts who say (exactly what I have been saying) that the RESEARCH and TECHNOLOGIES used in the study of AI are all around us.

That in no way says that any AI is out there, only the small steps towards it we have taken so far.

[BoyintheMachine]

I provided a link to an article where an A.I./Robtics expert claimed A.I. was all around us in our society and gave examples. You merely said this wasn't A.I. (as if your proclamation made it so).

Please educate yourself on this subject.

[KurNorock]

No you din't. As I pointed out in my last post, you provided a link where an AI/robotics expert gave examples of machines that use technologies created through AI research.

If you can't see the difference between that and actual 'AI' then maybe it is you who needs to "educate yourself"

[BoyintheMachine]

There is no 'actual A.I.'. There is only A.I. The term 'Artificial Intelligence' is a broad term, implying a range much like that of organic intelligence. The intelligence of a cockroach isn't on the same level of a human being, but cockroaches possess a form of intelligence no less.

Please educate yourself.

[KurNorock]

And now it seems you are suffering from a lack of knowledge of the english language.

If somebody were to point to a rock and say "That is AI." I would ask them "You can't tell the difference between that and actual AI?"

It has nothing to do with a 'range' but everything to do with "AI or not AI"

A technology brought about through AI research is not AI. 

While building his cars, Henry Ford invented charcoal briquettes. Does that make charcoal a car?

[BoyintheMachine]

You are attempting an 'oranges to apples' debate without any understanding of your own comment.

Seriously, rocks? -I'm not going to dignify that with a responce.

"A technology brought about thorugh AI research is not AI." -I'm gonna lump this with ignorant statements of the past such as, 'The earth is flat', and 'The earth is the center of the universe'.

"Henry Ford invented charcoal briquettes. does that make charcoal a car?" -Yes, if charcoal is made into a car.

Educate yourself.

[KurNorock]

This is a classic case of "You can't argue with stupid"

You are either too arrogant or too stupid to get the points I've been making. I was not debating about rocks, I was pointing out my use of the word 'actual'.

And yes, while researching something you CAN and usually do come up with something completely different.

Research into radar technologies lead to the invention of the microwave. Does that make a microwave a radar? Absolutely not.

[KurNorock]

HDTVs and cell phones have technologies in them brought about by AI research, but HDTVs and cell phones clearly are not AI. Even in the video game industry, the term AI is used to encompass things such as 'enemy behavior' in the game. Even the most realistic 'behavior' can be boiled down to 'if-then' commands the program must follow.

[BoyintheMachine]

KurNorock: Your use of the word, 'actual', has no bearing on the subject of A.I., mainly as it has no bearing on natural intelligence. Artificial Intelligence exists. It is nowhere near human-level, meaning 'Artificial General Intelligence', but it exists no-less. You seem to think that just because you say it does't exist, than it makes it so. Unless you are a Wizzard then you are quite mitaken.

Pleas educate yourself.

[BoyintheMachine]

(continued) USA Today,"A.I. Isn't Just A Movie'. "Today's AI can re-create slices of what humans do,in software that can indeed make decisions. In recent years, this so-called narrow AI has made its way into everyday life. A jet lands in fog because of relatively simple AI programmed into its computers. The expertise written into the program looks at dozens of readings from the jet's instruments and decides, much as a pilot would, how to adjust the throttle, flaps and other controls.

[KurNorock]

Well, finally! An example! This is all I've been asking for for the past few weeks. And I have been asking so I could do this..

A jet lands in fog because of careful programming that takes readings and measurements, and performs a series of pre-programmed tasks based on those readings.

It is STILL just 'if-then' programming. The term AI is flung around like the word 'theory'. People use it to talk about things that are not AI, but are very complicated 'if-then' programs.

[KurNorock]

They seem like AI because of their complexity and because in some instances they can take the place of a human. But they are not AI. They can do nothing except what a programmer has programmed them to do. There is no decision making, no learning, no understanding, no judgment. If those computers could read a set of data points from the planes instruments and do something other than what it is strictly pre-programmed to do, it could be considered AI.

[BoyintheMachine]

KurNorock: Your statement,'They are not A.I.' By what definition do you claims such?

Your claim: 'There is no decision making, no learning, no understanding, no judgement.' You are quite wrong. The A.I. in the plane, for example, is dynamic and constantly monitors data. It function is equivelant to the function of a human pilot. The last sentence you wrote reveals your ignorance as it shows what your definition of 'A.I.' is. To you, A.I. = 'A.G.I.' which isn't the same thing.Educate yourself.

[BoyintheMachine]

You don't seem to be getting it. It's not about 'if-then' programs. It's about 'function'. You cannot prove you are intelligent, neither can I. Instead our unconscious beliefs about each other being intelligent is based on 'functioning'. The A.I. used in the example above goes beyond traditional 'programming' as it allows the computer to perform a function previously reserved for a human being. That's the nature of the game, function.

[KurNorock]

But it does not go above traditional programming. A simple calculator can 'function' very well and take the place of a human doing various forms of math, yet nobody claims it is AI.

The plane computer functions as its programming tells it. It does not do anything other than what the strict program says it should do given X or Y.

Function really has nothing to do with it. You can be intelligent without having a function.

[BoyintheMachine]

First of all, all human action can be interpreted on an 'if/then' basis, ex-'If one touches a hot object then quickly take your hand away'. The key thing to realize is that it's no longer just about 'if/then' programs. Instead, it's about neural networks, genetic algorhythms, and 'fuzzy logic'.

'Intelligence' is based on perception. Perception of Intelligence is based on function. We don't view a dog being intelligent unless the dog functions/'behaves' in an intellgient manner...

[BoyintheMachine]

(continued) All you are doing, KurtNorock, is saying that YOU don't percieve A.I. as 'actual A.I.' Your peception is based on a misunderstanding of what A.I. is. For example, you mention calculators, but calculaters contain no programming that would allow room for the demonstration of intellgient behavior.  The programming of A.I. today results in a rather small room/space for machines to behave in an intelligent manner. In the future this space will broaden significantly. *FUNCTION*!!!

[BoyintheMachine]

(continued) Please read up on this subject. In previous comments you kept confusing 'A.I.' with 'A.G.I.', which is not the same thing. No one is claiming that today's A.I. is equal to a human being as 'A.G.I.' implies. Instead, it's merely a slice of human intelligence, thus referred to as 'Weak/Narrow A.I.'. (A.G.I., Artificial General Intelligence, is referred to as 'Strong A.I.' A human being has 'General Intelligence', machines aren't there yet.)

[KurNorock]

I haven't confused anything. You said yourself a calculator is not AI because it has no programming that would allow 'room' for the demonstration of intelligent behavior. I am simply saying that there is nothing out there now that has that 'room' either.

A calculator follows a strict program which tells it to display certain numbers if a certain sequence of keys is pressed. Things like car computers, video games, airplane auto pilots, etc. are all equally as restricted as the calculator.

[KurNorock]

Now, these computers may seem to 'act' intelligent, but they are not. It is the human condition to assign intelligence to anything doing something complex, and these various computers are programmed (just like calculators) to do complex things.

But for all the complexity, it is still just tasks being performed as written exactly by the programmers code.

It is true, we don't view a dog as intelligent unless it behaves intelligently. But there is a huge difference between a dog and a program

[KurNorock]

A program will always perform the same task given a certain situation. A dog has the 'room' to display intelligence by changing its behavior (even the slightest bit) even if the situation is exactly the same.

And yes, much of human thought is 'if-then' type action. But if that was the ONLY way we thought (like all computers) then we would have never survived. It is the ability to break free of the 'if-then' programming that determines intelligence.

[BoyintheMachine]

Blog Article: Does Artificial Intelligence Exist? by Ronald Brak

"Some people deny that artificial intelligence exists. They say that any apparent examples of machines acting intelligently are just illusions...

...As machines perform more and more tasks formally done by humans, does this mean that less and less human activity will have turned out to require intelligence? At the rate we're going I think we'll soon discover that humans were never intelligent in the first place."

[BoyintheMachine]

(continued) Give it up KurNorock, philosophy and our current state of technology is not on your side.

A.I. is real. You cannot prove you are intelligent anymore than you can disprove the existance of Artificial Intelligence.

[KurNorock]

I know that. You are the one complaining about my use of the word 'actual'.

I am not asking for 'human level' AI and I never claimed anything does or does not exist simply because of my saying so.

[BoyintheMachine]

This is what I mean by the fact that your concept of A.I. is underdeveloped. You might want to brush up on the field. Search Youtube for 'Charlie Rose: Artificial Intelligence Pannel' for a start. Several good books to read, one for example is 'Flesh and Machines' by Rodney Allen Brooks, one of the speakers on the youtube clip I wrote of above.

[KurNorock]

Ok, watched the video. Nothing I didn't already know. They were not talking about AI in our society now, they were talking about the developments they are making from the research into AI.

A machine that recognizes facial expressions and reacts accordingly is still just following 'if-then' programming. A machine that can read print and store it, or translate it, is still just following programming that had to be entered by a person.

(cont)

[KurNorock]

(cont)

None of that is AI, it is just really complex programming.

An example of AI would be if a machine with no programming concerning a subject, could read a book about the subject, then make calculations, predictions, and models about the subject. 

All the fancy technology you might call AI is not AI. It is the building blocks needed to create AI.

We have a box full of iron, aluminum, cloth, rubber, and paint, and you are calling it a car.

[crrm81]

I already saw this video, one of the joint legs ceased causing the robot to fall, thought I would call it a mechanical problem, not an AI failure. Akin to an old man falling down after his leg fractured.

[duuuuuumb]

was that during an actual presentation?, asimo must be soo embarrassed.