the medium is the message...

[typeclash]

I would not die for someones right to promote child abuse. But maby thats just me.

[JeffreyBeanJr]

Nice video. I agree with most of what you say.

[RadicalComedy]

I like the asshole comment, its just that I have never seen an ugly asshole before. ~Raven

[NLPNVC]

On my page there is a standing question, "what do you think about what is said in the video featured on this page." I feature videos that I don't always agree with in hope of having a conversation about it. After reading what you have written here I am going to re-think this idea of mine.

Peace to you.

[mtamorphis]

I like the phrase.."Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one!"

[phaedress]

You realise I have a crush on you, right?

[battim]

lol. no i did not. regardless, hillary sucks (wink).

[phaedress]

Your boorish attitude is the thing that makes me...er...well, whatever.

[oliviapeachcom]

I feel all the things said here, I am curious what your take on corporal punishment

[battim]

all for it

[achampag]

thanks for makin me come back and watch this...

new vid this week?

[battim]

how did i make you do that?

[achampag]

instead of digging, i generally go to the vid to look at the latest comments...easier.

so i caught the message again...

[James5482]

hey dude

your freeking me out

and making me read !

I am trying to wait for the movie to come out

but...

child abuse sucks

you are t h e g r e a t b a t t i m

may your voice be heard!!!

Take Care

James

[ShortbusMooner]

It's so hard to walk that fine line. You want to say, "<b>You <u>can't</u> have a channel that promotes pedophilia!!</b>", but then you have to let them have their rights- so we can have <b>our</b> rights. But it's so hard.

[TheDeester1]

There is a limit to rights, ecspecially when they violate the rights of others. A child having even a pic of him being viewed for sexual arousal is a violation of his rights. It is a different story when an adult takes a photo for that purpose vs. a child being exploited.

[battim]

agreed dee

[ShortbusMooner]

Oh, yes! I concurr. I guess they way the pedos would get around the laws, is by just "talking" about the subject. But, lord only knows, what those sickos have to look at, in the privacy of their own homes.

Brrrrrrr! :(

[battim]

shortbus, then you have folks like bedlam who go to the wall supporting those that "talk" about it.

[ShortbusMooner]

Honestly, I'm torn on this subject:

it digusts me, to think that someone could even think that way, let alone, extoll the virtues of pedophilia. But then, for the constitution to work, it has to be all or nothing....

[ShortbusMooner]

...

we can't say it's OK for me to talk about how great, say, "foot-fetish" is, but say it's not OK for him to "speak" about his fantasies. I guess it has to come down to the actual "act".

But, then- does the "speaking" lead to the act itself? Or, are we just the Thought Police?

Questions, questions...

[battim]

i don't recall anyone saying there should be a law against, and if that was never said, the word police isn't relevant to the discussion.

[battim]

ask yourself if you like feet, would you want to do that if given the opportunity?

[battim]

i agree, some of us have laid down our lives for that liberty, but its odd to me when one uses that same freedom to criticize folksl ike bedlam for their defense of dendro, he whines like a little girl...

[ShortbusMooner]

Oh, I agree. There are some wishy-washy folks. That's what I mean by confusion- which view is moderate? Which is extreme?

[battim]

extremism is a persepctive and certainly relative to he person you speak to...vertainly there are much better issues to take a stand on freedom of speech, especially when a 17 year old is involved.

[ShortbusMooner]

I hate to admit it, but I was actually thinking that he needed some psychological help!

[battim]

he does, as does bedlam. egoists of high orders for certain...what they don't get is thoughts are behaviors and abnormal thoughts that one obsesses on need attantion, or they become something more, in one form of the other.

[ShortbusMooner]

Egoists! Self-indulgent! I couldn't have thought of a better word!

[21stCenturyCat]

hey battim, call yourself a comedian?! that wasn't funny at all! ;)

But seriously, I guess one of the points you were making was the right for a person to be able to express themselves however much we might disagree with them. On that point I think there are limits (not many), but I would not fight for the rights of a person to talk about and promote being a pedophile.

[battim]

burnvictim fought for dendro right to do so and then got butthurt when i criticized him for it...

[21stCenturyCat]

ahhh right, got it

[waffleypie]

Nice vid, and of course favouriting a video about pedophilia is wrong.

[MissXaverie]

I would have much preferred a winky face in place of the lol.

[amnesiablonde]

Great point of view battim.  Love the quotes, very well put together.

[sneakypreacher]

Nice message...but MY GOD that music sucks! It sounds like a bunch of drunken people screaming and beating on dumpster lids!

[Stuka87]

oh man, this post made me lol.

[battim]

hey bro, easy on the heritage..lol

[sneakypreacher]

I"m not the type to down anyones heritage...I"m just saying their music sucks. But as a people, they're great.

[battim]

lol, love ya man

[battim]

@sneakypreacher its sioux chants.

[JKVman2007]

Thank you battim. I always appreciate hearing your point of view. I am glad you are on YouTube.

[IsaacBickerstaffEsq]

Prepare the hemlock - for the children.

[GivinUpOnGood]

Never mind.I just found your replacement comment at the bottom of this comment section.

[batphilo]

that is true...moeny always supercedes responsibility...ask seanbedlam the antcapitalist who begs for a partnership on youtube...funny, no?

[Voodooray007]

Cool! i like that proveb.

[PositiveLogic]

The unfortunate fact is that despite the naming of that location as FAVORITEs AND the perceived meaning of the word...YT's "intended" purpose was/is the same as in any browsing context... as BOOKMARKs (a term Microsoft changed in Internet Explorer & which confuses the meaning). YT has no separate location for links to the converse of FAVORITEs (maybe UNPOPULAR? or CONTROVERSIAL?) so the context of someone's "favorites" becomes open to (mis)interpretation. Innocent of malice/Victim of assumption.

[batphilo]

well i dont think its assumption to the bulk of folks who browse youtube...its like friends on myspace...would you allow a pedophile endorser to be your friend there?

i think gary et al are bright enough to understand how it will be perceived and privately they were told so and still didnt care...so i called them out...and they got butthurt...

[battim]

PL, the word favorite is clear...the medium is the message..it will be perceived that way, if an editor of a magazine names something his favorite and it endorses pedophilia, what impression will that leave?

[PositiveLogic]

Tim,

All I can say is go to Wikipedia and type Favorites in the search box...

[battim]

not the point...most folks who come to youtube are teenagers, youtube give positive implications to those videos favorited. the word favorites has implications...

[battim]

its not only about how you view it, its how others will view it, the message is not just what you mean it to be, but how it is taken by folks...

[volantare]

oh, btw, I think the reason some people have highlighted the video isn't because of freedom of speech, or because they agree, but because they want to stimulate debate and force people to think out of the box. In this case, challenging people to question norms and what creates them. This doesn't necessarily mean that the other position is CORRECT (although this obviously has been misinterpreted), but rather he wants to THINK.

[battim]

thinking is great, but so is social responsibility, i think when responding to a 17 year old old we sholud be careful what message we send them, favoriting their video gives the feeling of endorsement, no?

[volantare]

What are they endorsing though? He was challenging what are considered the norms of society, which is not a negative thing. I am willing to bet that he selected this topic because of the intense emotions associated with it. He has demonstrated a lack of understanding/knowledge of some of the "issues" involved (i.e. he failed to include reality in his discussion), but you can argue that highlighting this topic may encourage others to include reality when engaged in philosophy.

[volantare]

Of course, what I wrote requires debate within the video itself, of course, which could be left to you and others. I would think that such discussion/debate would occur anyway. I can see where you're coming from, and you could easily argue that favouriting a video without context could justify cynicism. That's probably fair enough. Subscription is another thing altogether. People often subscribe to people they don't agree with, for debate or otherwise.

[battim]

to them sure, thats why i said its on them...i cant do it.

[battim]

gary's context was a joke he made comparing children to apples...tasteless...if he wanted to be against dendro he should have done that and not tiptoed around it...thats intellectual cowardice...and faulty metaphorical postioning...apples don't have nervous systems..

[battim]

it is a negative thing when is rationalizes something has been shown cross culturally (even where childbriding is legal) to have negative psychological reamifications. highlighting it is NOT favoriting it...responding to it is.

[volantare]

Jokes may be poor taste (such jokes will always exist), but there would always be others, like you, to take up the sociological/psychological impacts and the scientific research on pedophilia: i.e. that it is always damaging, and more importantly, that children (and arguably even young adults) are incapable of consent.

[battim]

funny though...folks are bashing me because of the main message the promotion of this child idea is, in the childs mind (dendro) its an endrosement.  anytime i see favorited on my vids i assumed folks liked it.

[volantare]

I don't have a problem with battim disagreeing with dendrophile, but I think he went too far when he said that anyone who subscribes to such people support pedophilia: if you refuse to listen to people, how can you debate them? Conflict can be a productive thing and subscribing does not automatically condone anything that is said. It is certainly too far to suggest that anyone who subscribes to that subscriber is just as bad.

[battim]

what i said is, i can't do it...and if you sub to dendro you are making that impression, yes.

[failedvlogger]

I believe the children are our future

[battim]

you listening to whitney again?

[lilvoyce]

This is NOT an adult site.. so rules are in place. If you want to exercize total freedom of speech then go to an adult only forum people!! No one is stopping you, but we must follow rules. To all that are bashing those who want to keep the smut off this site, remember the TOS, that YOU ALL agreed to.

[lilvoyce]

If YT wants to allow freedom of speech concerning such vulgar topics then they need to ban minors from joining this site. Make a choice, keep the smut, or ban the kids. We can't have it both ways. There are rules here to protect children and they should be enforced, or simply not let kids on this site....

[battim]

i've always said there should be a 18 plus side like most video websites have, they don't even give us the choise to do that with our videos...livevideo does...

[lilvoyce]

Freedom of speech is all fine and dandy, but we dendro like the rest of us agreed to YT's Terms of Service. There is a code of Conduct section, in which prohibits such vulgar videos such as his. While I support freedom of speech, I also support the rules that we Are EXPECTED to follow here at YT.. cont.

[lilvoyce]

*but dendro, like the rest of us agreed to yt's TOS* correction

[battim]

thank you...but codes of conduct don't matter to kids...or adults who favorite their videos...

[maximumjla]

Tim, I sincerely hope you and Superlu patch things up dispite the difference of opinion. You are both my favorite Youtubers. As you said everyone has a right to thier opinion even if I disagree with it, I will fight to the death to keep their right to say it. No matter what. Peace.

[battim]

we are friends...we just disagree is all...

[nickanddeb]

tim...i think you missed the point with burnvictim's intention. the front page can be used to promote videos or people we like (most of us), people hidden by the shadows (as victor often does), and people hiding (or lurking) in the shadows. dendrophilian is clearly an example of the latter. he wants this scumbag exposed, up front in broad daylight, for what he is. if he were promoted only as a link on a video, most people would miss it unless, by chance, they watched that video.

[nickanddeb]

i'll admit his gallows humor videos on the subject may be a bit of a deception, but we're just mixing apples and oranges here.

[battim]

so why not come out with...why make jokes and odd and tasteless metaphors? can we agree favoriting it may leave an impression on the young man of endorsed ment?

[battim]

nick gary never said he wanted anyone exposed...ever. he simply never said that, his point was about freedon of speech.

[parisblonde]

u rock keep doing what you're doing tim.

[battim]

thanks kath...i sit here jaw agape that folks dont get it...

[jinxie3334]

Wow, I've been watching these videos and your getting slammed pretty bad. Sucks. I agree with freedom of speech, but I also know that words can be powerful and used as weapons if one is not careful and responsible. I feel that putting such a video on your home page is going against innocent children and someone really needed to take a stand for them. Why would anyone want to pass on the word about why it should be ok to take advantage of children? It's wrong and it is very sad.

[battim]

agreed the word favorites is not an implication it is clearly defined....gary misses that point

[jinxie3334]

I'm not sure why they put it on their favorites. I asked my teenage children what they thought of that and they said that they would assume that, that person was in favor of what the kid said. I just wanted a younger persons point of view. They also said it was a stupid thing to do. Can't say what else they said...is wasn't very nice lol.

[achampag]

first rational vid bout this whole mess. i totally agreee w you. nice job

[battim]

so rational burnvitcim77 cried literally on video...

[freesouljah]

people sharing their ideas is a good, healthy thing...it lets some air flow through our thoughts, and maybe helps us to see why others feel the way they do...

[battim]

agreed, but is endorsing that message to a boy a good thing?

[SSanf]

You do realize that you have helped dendrophilian's subscriber base grow by bringing him to so many more people's attention, right? But, hey, why skip a chance to jump right in and join the controversy. Got to come up with some kind of material to keep your audience's interest, right? Pedophilia, that's good. And, well, you know. dendrophilian seems to be the hottest thing going on right now. He's growing exponentially. Latch on to those coat tails. Latch on, man!

[batphilo]

so you think we should just stay silent, like we did world war two or like pedophilia was never talked about before? nope. we need to have this discussion...good and bad...

[SSanf]

The appropriate response and the one that many others made was to make a cogent well reasoned response to his arguments telling why you disagreed and debunk his theories. Perhaps, you made one. I have not watched all your videos. Trying to intimidate others over the content of their own page even the content of the pages of people they subscribe to is not appropriate.

[batphilo]

social activism is appropriate...so i should say how i feel? odd...

[SSanf]

Surely, you are fully aware that it is inappropriate. But, it sure is controversial to attempt to tell others what they should have on their page and what should be on the pages of those the subscribe to, isn't it?

[batphilo]

again it appropriate to voice my concerns...i said clearly...whatever you do is on you...silly...i never claimed censorship, but it is a reflection of who you are...

[SSanf]

Threats and intimidation to bend others to your will is not social activism. Social activism would have been to organize others to counter his arguments with even better arguments. If he cannot be defeated with reason, he has won.

[battim]

where did I threaten anyone or intimidate anyone? that is simply a lie...silly...

[JustA11en]

SSanf: I had a look at your channel, you don't seem like the type of person that would want anyone to tell YOU what is appropriate.

[SSanf]

LOL!! I sure don't worry about it a lot one way or another.

I do not approve of the recommended tactics. I think they are way out of line. If you do not like it that I hold that opinion, oh very darned well. I guess, I will just have to live with you not liking it. I think I will still do OK knowing that.

[batphilo]

I have a question why do you keep giving the video about it comments and hits?  isn't that doing the same?

[SSanf]

Why wouldn't I? I do not share your concerns and fears about people sharing and disseminating unpopular ideas. Unpopular ideas are generally unpopular for a reason. Making them more known will not make them any more popular than they already were. Anyone interested in finding support for pedophilia probably can find and have found more than enough resources to validate their thinking. The good thing about YT is it exposes those ideas and allows for public rebuttal.

[battim]

when did i say i didnt want him to get hits? what i said was favoriting it is an endorsement...

[SSanf]

"what i said was favoriting it is an endorsement."

I believe the way "favorites" is used on YT is to indicate videos that you wish to call to people's attention. There is no other option as things are set up at this time so that is the option used. Whether or not it is an endorsement varies by user. You may wish to suggest more options to YT.

[batphilo]

the medium is the message, how you preceive it doesnt matter...the majority of folks define words for how they are defined, not how you choose to define them, look up the word favorite...responding to it would be eoungh to highlight no? favoriting it isn't the olny means...and you can also put it on lists that dont show on your front page...

[21stCenturyCat]

SSanf: Maybe but I also add favourites so that if want to go back and watch a 'favourite' video I can do so easily. Something I have done from time to time.

[battim]

my point is why add to that endorsement by favoriting this kids video?

[battim]

as are you by commenting on every video about...and giving them hits...lol

[SSanf]

When ideas are both unsound and dangerous, the best thing is to debunk them in a very public way so that they can be seen to have the fallacies that they do and fewer of the gullible are mislead into erroneous thinking. When they are discussed in hidden places there is no one to dispute them or stand up for the correct point of view. Trying to silence such ideas only drives them out of sight leaving the vulnerable on their own resources to challenge such thinking.

[SSanf]

I am not concerned about dendrophilian's subscriber base growing. That is your concern. I think it is a good thing to get these dark things into the open. His ideas on that one topic have been challenged by viewers who are both smart enough and concerned enough to respond to the actual arguments. Those reasoned responses will do more to dissuade gullible people tempted into a dangerous line of thinking than any effort at suppression ever could.

[battim]

in your opinion...but endorsing them with a tag of favorite gives the impression, as it would if editor said an article was his/her favorite would, that one endorses that message. i never tried to silence it...nor did i ever claim to.

[Skaramine]

Accusations, tossed around irresponsibly, weaken those accusations which are true. The Bill of Rights protects Americans from guilt by association. I refuse to think of good people smeared with the appellation baby-raper just because they're subscribed to someone who didn't even MAKE the Dendrophillia rap.

[batphilo]

what accusation was trapsed around? only the it was featured on their front page...and thats true

[Skaramine]

But you felt that staying subscribed to people who had featured it is somehow an endorsement. I'm subscribed to Superlu, who's subscribed to that snarky little asshole. Does that mean I endorse pedophilia too? How many degrees of separation is appropriate?

[battim]

again what I decide is up to me no? I said this is what I am doing you can do as you please

[battim]

what I said is to a 17 year old it will be the impression of an endorsement

[Skaramine]

Not meaning to cause a fight. I feel like smacking dendrophillia in the nose with a flaming log for being pro-pedophillia. I am, however, more freedom of speech. They can talk all the shit they want.

[batphilo]

agreed

[battim]

superlu is not subbed to dendrophilian

[NotSoOldHippy]

I would expect that as a species, we are already doomed. Any primate species one cares to point at is fundamentally broken and no amount of societal evolution will cure our fundamentally flawed biological imperatives.

Humanity WILL be replaced by something else despite all of our best efforts to retain what we are.

[mbpearce76]

Well said, wrote.

[SuvivorsFaith]

Agreed whole heartedly hon. Love and Blessings Tim

[GivinUpOnGood]

Good video.I think the disagreement about this issue could have been resolved behind closed doors.The whole thing just served to promote that fellows vid even more.

[SSanf]

Yep! Before all the controversy, denouncements and responses dendrophilian had under 300 subscribers. Now, he has 2,400. Way to go on keeping his message from being heard. Good work guys. Just have to admire your winning tactics. Now, of course, if it got you a few sympathy subscribers along the way because you kept telling everyone about what a bad guy he is and keeping his name in front of everyone, what the heck. You earned them didn't you?

[SSanf]

His video about pedophilia has now had 67,640 views! Good job!

[battim]

so are we not supposed to expose him and twiddle our thumbs and be silent? isn't that what the catholic church did?

[SSanf]

You know if something is getting the opposite result from what you want, perhaps, it isn't a good idea to continue doing it.

If you had used the common sense of not making such a big deal over it, a whole lot fewer people, probably including some potential pedophiles, would have seen his video.

The reasonable response would have been to simply refute his arguments and let it go at that.

[battim]

such as giving this video hits and comments...your action contradict your message ssanf

[GivinUpOnGood]

You did notice that I said Good Video, didn't you?It is your presentation NOT your views on this subject that bothers me. It is my opinion that your original video would have been better as a stand alone vid,rather than one attached to Dendro and direct towards another. Also.I am a bit concerned with some of the contradictions you make while making your arguments and the idea of your guilt by association concept.

[battim]

not guilt of pedophilia but a disregard for impression, the medium is the message and noone seems to munderstand that...point is if my 14 year old watches my vids see im subb'd to gary then go to his page and see favorites, she would be like. "dad subs to someone who favorites this crap?"

this was addressed privately with gary, he chose to not care and leave it there...i think it needed to be made public, his favorite list is public

[GivinUpOnGood]

I understand what you are saying, but one could also argue that you addressing this issue with a Batman themed channel, are doing the same.If you were to take a group of children and give them the option of two video icons to choose from....one with a batman image or one of some guy sitting in a room full of boxes....which one do you think they would choose?

[GivinUpOnGood]

You are linking your vids on this subject to that which you do not approve of and could be guiding any child who might have viewed your channel(thinking it was child appropriate content)directly to the offending video. There for you could also be called irresponsible.

[battim]

the child will find the video, they need to see people disagree with dendro persepctive, staying silent about it is what the chruch did, the abuse continued...we must not shelter them from dissent on this issue for the sake of sheltering them fromthe issue, a sub is an endorsement, my video is a rebuttal...see the difference?

[GivinUpOnGood]

So you are saying you want to lead children to that video?In your first video addressing this subject you where chastising BV77 for being irresponsible in regards to exposing that video to children.Now you are saying you want children to view it.

That is a contradiction.

[battim]

no i didnt say that...but if they are lead to it they will be lead to the dissent as well, ive always argued youtube should have an 18 plus side to it as well as an all audience side to it...

[battim]

my issue was with how dendroplhilian sees the favoriting...not the video...my issue was with favoriting it, not bringing attention to it...

[GivinUpOnGood]

Unfortunately 18 is never going to happen.I'd like to see youtube raise the limit to at least 16,but like I've stated in another in another thread recently...It would cut too much into user numbers and the target demographic of most of the ads.

[battim]

that is true...moeny always supercedes responsibility...ask seanbedlam the antcapitalist who begs for a partnership on youtube...funny, no?

[battim]

i don't have an issue with a kid seeing how many folks think dendro is wrong...but a sub is an endorsement.

[leafdude]

That is a great point battim. It reminds me of that poem about the nazis where the person said they took everyone away and they said and did nothing because it wasn't them being taken away...until eventually it was their turn. Some of us refuse to be silent on this issue and let the bastards continue on. How do we know this site hasn't allowed some child to be harmed because of these preditors? Cheers!

[battim]

and this little video lef made burnviticm make 3 videos crying and seanbedlam went nuts (then took down his two videos on it) and they cried for like three weeks...makes you wonder, no?

[battim]

some folks, brother, actually promote folks like dendrophilia and then whine when they are connected with him, odd, no?

[battim]

several folks did talk to gary privately...to no avail

[w0rldpeace]

Allow me to summarize: child abuse is wrong.

[Rh1no1]

There is a lot missing in the summary!

[w0rldpeace]

I thought it was fairly succinct.

[Rh1no1]

You win.

[w0rldpeace]

lulz

[Rh1no1]

giggle :D

[BEENDOWNHEARTEDBABY]

I honestly don't know what or whom you are addressing but I agree wholeheartedly with your message! If I may take the liberty of adding one thing; In my opinion WAR is Child Abuse! I have been there, I have seen it and it sucks! Peace and Love from San Francisco Baby!

[battim]

its to burnvictim77 who faviroted a video rationalizing pedophilia then whined when i pointed it out