I think mules should cost minerals and have a supply. I hate when a terran player flies his expo somewhere and just lands like 10 mules and all of a sudden he's got 3X the economy of me even though I have a base on him.
lol @ the IMBA of terran, eventually the nerf will come and you will lose. Blizz loves terran though btw...they enjoy having them as the best race. But yeah 8 harvestors and the terran still have it...rlly actually makes me a bit sick of how IMBA this matchup is. lol ooo well, time 2 get off my soap box lol.
It's going to be hilarious when Terran gets nerfed to see how many of those players actually fall out of the GM and masters leagues because they actually are mediocre players that just get the huge benefits of playing the easiest most powerful race. Not taking anything away from illusion, he's beast and all.... but Drewbie? mass marine tank pew pew for the lame.
The few Terran players that I could imagine staying up at the top are MMA, Kas, and Thorzain. They happen to be the only ones I can stand to watch since they actually have some semblance of skill.
What they should do with MULES is either make them LESS EFFECTIVE the MORE you have out on the field, or less effective the fewer SCVs you have, or ANYTHING.... they NEED a fucking nerf, seriously.
Why not just make it so MULES can mine fucking GAS too!?
I hate the whole bullshit of Zerg needing 1+ bases more than their opponent, it really fucking sucks when you can't even punish Terran or Protoss for fast expanding because the only way to do it is go ALL IN, which usually fails anyway.
Zerg need love man, IDGAF what all you Terran imba op bitch pussies say, you need a fucking nerf or Zerg need some buffs. Lick my balls.
While Catz had more harvesters, they were all on two practically mined out bases. His extra harvesters weren't bringing him in any more income. Were he on three bases, or at least on two that weren't so depleted, Illusion would have been way behind on income.
People need to realize that the Income tab is messed up, it fluctuates all the time - therefore never giving you an actually correct amount. Now granted, Mules are excellent, but remember that Illusion dropped 5, and was running off of 3 orbitals to keep dropping them. He also was able to produce SCVs that much faster as well. So to those who keep whining about imbalance, just remember you can only make one SCV at a time, at the same speed, so MULEs are a way to even out the harvester game.
Mules are not a way to even out the game, it's a way for Terran to be more accessible. I used to main Terran for about 1st half of my play in SC2, getting to top 25 plat (after 800 or so games) without even trying (I didn't use hotkeys or control groups). Terran is honestly as user-friendly as it gets.
I've barely managed to get to top 8 plat scrub as z, after 1.2k games. Playing with much more mechanical, macro, and micro improvement. I could be a masters terran!
IT WAS 9 TO 40 HARVESTERS HOW WAS HE UP IN MINERALS!??!
Lets see zerg had some on gas.. 10 of those workers where actually being produce not working, And the terran had all his workers plus 3 OCs work of mules on minerals. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE.
Then the zerg with a shit army had to constantly produce 0/0 zerglings to stop a 3/2 marine army while the terran went to 3 OCS economy.
those were mules from 3 bases and was a temporary income to keep up with zerg's usual insane droning, zergs would like to have awesome income and extend like crazy while terrans wait for them to make brood lords...in this game zerg did mistakes, he wasted almost all his army with the bust, lost a 3rd, so with the bust the game just evened it up
haha... count every mule as perma +6 harvesters... terran pays for an orbital command 150 mins +scv producing time. So , there harvester count in actuality was 18+9= 27 vs 40.... still pretty lopsided but illusion harrased well denying bases and that attack costed catz alot
How about having like a 20 to 30 second cooldown for mules? then it's similar micromanagement as it is for zerg with the inject larvae, and the immediate comeback from a blow like this is more difficult.
@tookedeamon For a competitive game, no race should have an 'edge.' Even if you say that Terran is OP, we can all agree that they shouldn't be for the game to be truly competitive. No expansion should make one race or another OP.
You are right there; all the races should be as closely balanced as possible (without making them too similar). The problem is Blizzard has done little to help Zerg. I just want lurkers and scourge back, so that everyone will cry that Zerg is OP! Bwhwaahhahawhwa!
(As you can see, my personal interests don't align with that of the pro leagues).
And that's exactly why I never go for an early 3rd, yeah if it's not scouted you will skyrocket ahead of your opponent but to me the risk outweighs the rewards.
@scaMper982 because i find mules OP? sure, toss has crono, zerg can mass produce drones, but for any race other than T that was 9 to 40 harvesters they would be significantly behind, yes catz lost his 3rd continually and lost his pool and infestation pit, and had no ups, which is why he lost, but the only reason it went to that point was Ts ability to remain equal in income with mules. Mules should balance out the game, not win you the game
catz' ladder account is col.standard, col.catz he uses for tournaments because he would fuck around on his col.catz account and he got really low on the ladder and it would take too long to climb back up so he just started a new account
Also, the game is pretty balanced at higher level play, which is what Blizzard is doing. Most of the complaints are at lower level play, where the lack of skill makes certain races seem more powerful. Personally I think Zerg is the best race in SC2, however to exploit all the benefits of playing zerg a player has to have a very high APM to manage inject larve, creep spread and efficent unit production at the right time.
I think alot of people don't realize that the mules didn't win Illusion the game; his excellent drop play sniping both the spawning pool and the infestor pit won him the game. Catz tried to all in and it didn't work out.
@ShammGod126 your crazy if u think zerg is the best race, i think terran and toss are equal but zerg is a very weak race at the highest levels where one mistake can cause you your entire army in seconds... I dont think terran is op just zerg is too squishy weak, i hope blizzard increases the rate of creep spread two fold and double zergs hp regen speed to recover quicker from battles since they have such low health y not!!!
Terran can heal, repair, toss have quick shield recover speed... zerg?
@TheGiantKiller8 i play zerg. And zerg can retrain another army at once on 4 bases. with a macro hatch, which i get late game because of an excess of minerals, its even better. but i agree, the only thing zerg has going for them at the moment is skyzerg lategame and mutas vs. toss.
@pyromite13 i play zerg/toss not very good at zerg... i feel infestors are underused and hate being limited by the larva system... i cant keep on top of my injects either
@ShammGod126 but the point is it did work. catz destroyed illusions harvester count. but because of the op of mules it didnt end up helping catz at all. yes illusion played well and there were other factors to consider but to watch that video and say mules arnt seriously op... well that just means you play terrran
Nothiing but a zerg whine fest in Psy's comment section everytime I read it. Psy you should change you name to leader of whiners seriously. Of course Psy only shows the income tab when terran has 4 mules going. Doesn't mention that the zerg is mining more gas, doesn't talk about it later when Terran is only mining 500 minerals to Cats 950-1000. I knew as soon as he said that the "swarm" of Crying bitches would be all over the comments. Congrats sheep, your king has appeased you once again.
Wow, only Terran can lose practically all their workers and still have a greater mineral economy than 40+ enemy workers with like 5-6 Mules.
Illusion is a good player, and played well, but Catz should have won, and would have, if Terran was actually balanced. Marines, Mules and Marauders - Fucking fix them.
Its lovely how people are so singleminded about this game. They think "Herp derp Illusion lost a bunch of workers but still managed to win Terran over powered !! " but they miss a lot of stuff.
Catz made a ton of sacrifises for the baneling bust. No third base, no upgrade, no tech at all and he was already way behind (you could argue that Zerg is forgiven you can just lose your hatch). Illusion was ahead, had 3 OCs, had upgrades and had already teched up to medivacs. After the bust it was even
@N3OJerom its obvious that most of the people that watch psy are zerg players that whine op every time an other race comes back from a rough situation but when a zerg player powers 30 drones with the trust fund he got cathing up in workers they consider it normal. Judging from the comments anyway
If your units had to be constructed at the same place as your workers, you would realize it's more of a gamble than anything else to power drones hard after a massive upset. Meanwhile, Terran can do one more all-in and win. Even if they lose virtually all their economy.
Hey everyone im a fellow sc2 caster that hosts many tournaments. Im only 14 and trying to get noticed. I recently hit 60 subs and would really appreciate it if you guys check out my channel! I do live casts of my 1v1’s and 2v2s. And if you don’t wanna check out my channel would you at least gimme a thumbs up to help me get noticed? Thanks everyone! :D
and btw Psy way to showcase the shitty fucking poor excuse for skills from one of your Terran players. maybe next time pick a game that doesnt make him look like a complete fuck tard
FUCK TERRAN!! this fucking bullshit is why i dont play SC2 at all anymore. this fucking game talks about being so balanced. sorry blizz pull your head out of your ass and balance your game.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I almost prefer when you cast others, Psy. You're being way too hard on yourself when you're casting your own matches!
The best way to win against terran is to deny one base, heras runbys even late tech against a not very very damaged terran is not winable, they snipe your tier3 shit with a few ghosts and you cant win in a macra fest. So just deny one base (2nd expo) and dont let them take it and defend it with your live because if they get it you have nearly to 100% lost.
yes this mules are definatly op, a protos player or a zerg would have lost after such bad defense and loosing nearly all of his workers but not terran he just can summon instantly 50 worker worth mules and is with 10 workers left in front of you with your not herased fully mining 2 base. I think to kill terran you should prefer to go after the production but wait, they can fly away so just dont attack with ground at all because you cant win, ok maybe I overact a bit, but frustrating to see!
terran needs more apm to do the same basic things as toss/zerg
and terran is least played race on b net
evrything is just well balanced, its not whiners created this cool game its the blizzard and that's how i know who need to balance this game (which is already almost perfectly balanced).
Oh no! 3 OCs not using mules for 30 seconds allows the terran to keep up with a 2 base zerg for 30 seconds (then drop to next to nothing) a little bit later! That's almost as imba as almost winning with only tier 1 units after 10 minutes against an opponent that was ahead in workers the whole time.
I think people are missing the point at how easy it was for the zerg to bust down a wall, with just Bling/ling and completly destroy 2 mineral lines all this when he was massively behind from the start of the game for being greedy and punished for it.
Is that not an imba? I think so but nobody wants to talk about that, would it of been right if the Zerg had won that game? think about it, really, would that of been balanced for this zerg to take that game?
@StarCraftRaver So your telling me breaking a terran with an all in against a terran who doesn't use his own bunkers, and has more then a 3rd of his forces (16 out of 40 marines and both medivacs) as well as was pumping out upgrades/tech (seige, 2 ebays, starport as well as a third command center) is broken?
No matter how bad the zerg played (late lair, no gas, never got 3rd), no one should lose when it is 40-9 workers. Not to wine or so but this proves that mules are bit imbalanced.
Mule spam is stupid, they should at least put a cooldown on this ability. If zerg forget to inject in a time in the game, it's usless queen energy for the rest of the game. For terran, no problem, you can just spam mules when you realize it...
@HrKAG What I mean is if zerg miss an inject, his macro is fuked hardcore. There is no easy way to get this stacked up energy back into larvae (only macro hatch... lol).
Just put a cooldown on the call mule ability and the terran will be forced to use scan as zerg is forced to use creep tumors if they fail their timings. This looks fair to me.
I'm not sure if you were joking Psy, but mules are only temporary. Please don't make such a weak complaint about mules. Every race has their own macro mechanic. If Illusion was playing better he wouldn't even have had that many mules to call down in the first place. Epic play by winner :D
Oh please. "Each race has their own macro mechanic". So? Which other race can just shrug off losing all its workers? Or instantly fix a supply block? Or be completely impervious to cloak? Or own a mineral dump unit that literally counters everything?
Illusion played this game well, but this doesn't change the fact T is the most forgiving race of all. One mistake as Z and you lose, 1000 mistakes as T and you are still happy in the game.
@TP5991 What a load of garbage, have you ever played as Terran? Marines counter everything? Collosus? Storm? Seige Tanks? Banlings? Fungal? kill Marines is mass.
Terran need mules plain and simple, Zergs can drone and drone....and drone, until they need to react to a threat, Terrans have to balance army and SCVs zergs can have literally double the amount of workers than a Terran come mid game. Protoss have Chrono, can mass build structures with one probe, instantly,
@TP5991 Terrans have to use the SCV through the whole building process, we have no natural healing and need SCV's for that further strengthening our need for mules. A scan comes at a heavy cost, and so does dropping a supply.
Are you fucking retarded? No, really, what league are you in? I'd like to know this. Illusion played amazingly well in this game, kept Standard on the back foot the entire time. His marines were also upgraded with Stim and, later on, Combat Shields. Yeah, they certainly do counter everything if everything is un-upgraded zerglings and banelings (yes, they did have speed).
@TP5991 And, Orbitals in the early game can't do all 3 things which you described. Using them to fix supply blocks means you're bad, using them for mules is pretty nice but in some cases can make you mine out quicker. Using them for scans can certainly help deal with cloaked units or give you intel, but then herp derp you can't mule or supply drop. You shouldn't make such sweeping statements about a game that you're not playing professionally.
@TP5991 How exactly is terran forgiving? You can almost instantly lose your army to banelings, fungal growth, storms or forcefields. If you leave tanks undefended, they may get killed by mutas.
@TP5991 That obviously isn't true since the win rates are pretty even across all. Unless you think that all zerg players are better which is just stupid. Yes workers are less valuable for Terran but kill off a couple of reactors and tech labs and a Terran is screwed. You Obviously haven't played Terran if you think that Marines counter everything. Go play Terran and try making just Marines against a zerg player. You will get steamrolled by Roaches Banelings Infestors BroodLords.
@TP5991 what other race has the ability to pump 20 workers at once ? or make 10 supply depos at once without losing any mining time ? (hint hint , its zerg)
Think of the mule as +4 extra perma workers wich you lose for a while if you scan.
you are talking about like terran has infinite orbital command energy. If you lose all your workers as terran you are dead unless your opponent plays terrbily.
the extra supply depo that you drop costs 300 hundred (you lose a mule) so i think its a fair trade
You're totally right how mules work there, and about OCs not having infinite energy.
However, you also have to consider that if a Zerg pumps 20 workers at once, that's 20 units he can't have if the enemy pushes. Same with 10 Overlords, that's 20 larvae he can't use to attack.
Mules aren't infini-drop, and Larvae need to be managed. I wish I could send a reply to two people at once.. :/
@druidy2 if losing that muledrop costs you 300 minerals, then every single building zerg puts down costs infinite tminerals in mining time for that one drone
@druidy2 Let's be clear: mules don't cost 300 minerals. They cost energy. Energy recharges. Those 300 minerals aren't 'lost' numbnuts, you just get them a bit later. Stupid shit-dumb terran doesn't even know how his own race works.
@rollingling You can't argue against 6 MULEs making up for a 31 harvester gap; that is sooooo stupid and kept illusion in the game. Keep in mind MULEs ignore saturation, so you can have full saturation+MULEs on two base and have practically the same mineral income as a 3 base opponent (all illusion needed since he went pure marines); no matter how many probes/drones we make, we can't have 3 base mineral income on 2 base.
@rollingling Zerg workers still use larva, which is basically an extra resource terrans don't even have to worry about. Sure you can pump out 30 drones, but now you can't build an army. 'Protoss has chrono boost'. And...what? You ever even played toss? Chrono is okay-ish early game and meh to useless afterwards. Try losing 30 probes and chrono boosting your way back to an econ while making an army. Having fun yet?
@TP5991 Sounds like just another butthurt zerg too me. Maybe you should l2p instead of bitching about races.
How about Z's ability to instantly tech switch on a dime? But why talk about the strengths of your race when you can bitch about another race and hide your ineptitude?
@vixaroth mhhhm... Mules are temporary? An Orbital Command's energy is regenerated about 50 energy per 90 seconds, and how long does a mule last? Hmm... Mules are like adding 4 workers to your economy, which are replenish-able, and aren't affected by the saturation of other workers. If you lose it, well, just wait 90 more seconds and you got it back. Go search some Mule threads in Team Liquid or something, and you'll see all the math...
Typical zerg blaming the imbalance of mules for the win. Conveniently forgetting that Catz took a ton of damage before the baneling bust not to mention the crazy fast 3-2 upgrades that Illusion got.
Also it's very misleading when Psy says that he is up on minerals at the point he is around 900-1200 because 30 seconds later all of those mules are gone and he is way down to 600-700.
@hastyscorpion1 I think the point is that they last long enough to stabilize and pump out a shit ton of marines and workers immediately. Energy also recharges fairly quickly in sc2. Let's face it, if at ANY point in a game a zerg or protoss is down 40-9 workers, it's insta gg. Terrans can and do routinely come back from pretty massive worker deficits to win games.
@hastyscorpion1 I don't really care about a 'balance' flame war, but I will say that the mechanic gives terran players a larger buffer for mistakes, I think this is why some players are frustrated by mules.
@hastyscorpion1 Ha. You know what Mules cost? Energy. That's right, it takes around 50 seconds to create a mule, and 90 seconds for mules to expire. That means there will be around 4 Mules going at a time off 3 orbitals. They do last forever as long as you pay attention.
1 orbital have enough energy regen to allow one mule for the whole game. the regen is slightly faster though. with one orbital, at one point there can be two mules.
CatZ is probably the best at baneling busting. He took on two guys while Total Biscuit did nothing with a baneling bust. He fucking made them eat shit!
Zerg takes early, undefended third. Gets surpirsed when opponents early pressure takes it out. "herp derp so imba how is zerg supozed to stop thiss???+!!1"
@SODEMO2007 And if not, patethic mule-terran will have DOUBLE the income from the same number of bases, free to make both army and SVCs and zerg, stuck on 2-base have to choose from producing defenses and loosing the makro game from the start, or producing drones and loosing to whatever push terran feels like. Zerg do NOT get 1 base up for advantage, it's for necessity... sigh
Psy... I think i love you. You are such a funny commentator and your kick ass SC2 player!! You are one of my favorite commentators even better than Day9!! Keep up the good work!!! <33!!
@NotAG4yName Yeah, they really should balance inject larva, maybe give terran some kind of building add-on that allows them to produce two units at once or something like that
@NotAG4yName You do realize zerg has NO other means of producing units at all, other than hatch? They can't make drones and army at the same time, and more than anything, injects can't be stacked. Forget to inject - you're screwed. Forget to mule, well, shiftclick and win, pro terran skillz.
The pronlem isnt mules, its the passivity of NA zergs. Disagree? See Leenock's follow through at Providence. 'nuff said.
bumshka21 1 week ago
Hello signoureyweavers? Wtf
bumshka21 1 week ago
illusion switched from zerg to terran because he said terran was too much fun. he made the right choice lol.
imgdumpprep 1 week ago
I think mules should cost minerals and have a supply. I hate when a terran player flies his expo somewhere and just lands like 10 mules and all of a sudden he's got 3X the economy of me even though I have a base on him.
hannsgia1234 2 weeks ago
mules are a fucking joke
gernou92 1 month ago
lol @ the IMBA of terran, eventually the nerf will come and you will lose. Blizz loves terran though btw...they enjoy having them as the best race. But yeah 8 harvestors and the terran still have it...rlly actually makes me a bit sick of how IMBA this matchup is. lol ooo well, time 2 get off my soap box lol.
GTO19020 1 month ago
When you spam sd to hard your drones stop working.
RedWolfCid 1 month ago
Dont limit mules. I think you should just have to build them like scv's.
superpantman 1 month ago
It's going to be hilarious when Terran gets nerfed to see how many of those players actually fall out of the GM and masters leagues because they actually are mediocre players that just get the huge benefits of playing the easiest most powerful race. Not taking anything away from illusion, he's beast and all.... but Drewbie? mass marine tank pew pew for the lame.
staphinfection 1 month ago
@staphinfection
The few Terran players that I could imagine staying up at the top are MMA, Kas, and Thorzain. They happen to be the only ones I can stand to watch since they actually have some semblance of skill.
tookedeamon 1 month ago
What they should do with MULES is either make them LESS EFFECTIVE the MORE you have out on the field, or less effective the fewer SCVs you have, or ANYTHING.... they NEED a fucking nerf, seriously.
Why not just make it so MULES can mine fucking GAS too!?
staphinfection 1 month ago
I hate the whole bullshit of Zerg needing 1+ bases more than their opponent, it really fucking sucks when you can't even punish Terran or Protoss for fast expanding because the only way to do it is go ALL IN, which usually fails anyway.
Zerg need love man, IDGAF what all you Terran imba op bitch pussies say, you need a fucking nerf or Zerg need some buffs. Lick my balls.
staphinfection 1 month ago
NERF MULES! If you're going to give a race a "get out of jail free" card, then ALL races should have something similar.
staphinfection 1 month ago
While Catz had more harvesters, they were all on two practically mined out bases. His extra harvesters weren't bringing him in any more income. Were he on three bases, or at least on two that weren't so depleted, Illusion would have been way behind on income.
Midnightblues94 1 month ago
People need to realize that the Income tab is messed up, it fluctuates all the time - therefore never giving you an actually correct amount. Now granted, Mules are excellent, but remember that Illusion dropped 5, and was running off of 3 orbitals to keep dropping them. He also was able to produce SCVs that much faster as well. So to those who keep whining about imbalance, just remember you can only make one SCV at a time, at the same speed, so MULEs are a way to even out the harvester game.
zmdecker24 1 month ago
@zmdecker24
Mules are not a way to even out the game, it's a way for Terran to be more accessible. I used to main Terran for about 1st half of my play in SC2, getting to top 25 plat (after 800 or so games) without even trying (I didn't use hotkeys or control groups). Terran is honestly as user-friendly as it gets.
I've barely managed to get to top 8 plat scrub as z, after 1.2k games. Playing with much more mechanical, macro, and micro improvement. I could be a masters terran!
tookedeamon 1 month ago
fucking mule win game again
Kollmanniak 1 month ago
come on, come on. meow u little bitch... ah fuck it
gifibidy 1 month ago
All I'm seeing in this thread is a bunch of qq and wah wah.
will8677 1 month ago
IT WAS 9 TO 40 HARVESTERS HOW WAS HE UP IN MINERALS!??!
Lets see zerg had some on gas.. 10 of those workers where actually being produce not working, And the terran had all his workers plus 3 OCs work of mules on minerals. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE.
Then the zerg with a shit army had to constantly produce 0/0 zerglings to stop a 3/2 marine army while the terran went to 3 OCS economy.
Shaphrion 1 month ago
Hello Sigourney Weavers??? LOL
Blackhorndown 1 month ago
Bring forth the balance wars!
Hsdimes 1 month ago
The 2nd-top comment owns the 1st
ezgftt 1 month ago
There should be a cap on how many mules you can have out at once, instead of just how much energy you have at the time, that is really silly.
AForgottenTome 1 month ago
lol terran.
NIMHFS 1 month ago
those were mules from 3 bases and was a temporary income to keep up with zerg's usual insane droning, zergs would like to have awesome income and extend like crazy while terrans wait for them to make brood lords...in this game zerg did mistakes, he wasted almost all his army with the bust, lost a 3rd, so with the bust the game just evened it up
scaMper982 1 month ago
haha... count every mule as perma +6 harvesters... terran pays for an orbital command 150 mins +scv producing time. So , there harvester count in actuality was 18+9= 27 vs 40.... still pretty lopsided but illusion harrased well denying bases and that attack costed catz alot
druidy2 1 month ago
"So Cats continuing to make zerglings..."
"Meow"
5:30
lucyandnyuuatonce 1 month ago 6
@lucyandnyuuatonce howd u hear that shyt? lol epic
skjonnyr 1 month ago
How about having like a 20 to 30 second cooldown for mules? then it's similar micromanagement as it is for zerg with the inject larvae, and the immediate comeback from a blow like this is more difficult.
skllbeatslck 1 month ago
@skllbeatslck
That's actually not a bad idea. Blizzard should implement that cooldown mechanic in HOTS. If it's a Zerg expansion pack, they should get the edge.
tookedeamon 1 month ago
@tookedeamon For a competitive game, no race should have an 'edge.' Even if you say that Terran is OP, we can all agree that they shouldn't be for the game to be truly competitive. No expansion should make one race or another OP.
Midnightblues94 1 month ago
@Midnightblues94
You are right there; all the races should be as closely balanced as possible (without making them too similar). The problem is Blizzard has done little to help Zerg. I just want lurkers and scourge back, so that everyone will cry that Zerg is OP! Bwhwaahhahawhwa!
(As you can see, my personal interests don't align with that of the pro leagues).
tookedeamon 1 month ago
And that's exactly why I never go for an early 3rd, yeah if it's not scouted you will skyrocket ahead of your opponent but to me the risk outweighs the rewards.
proteuseffects 1 month ago
this is just ridiculous, no one can argue that T is not OP, 9 to 40 harvesters? thats is retarded
crazzynez 1 month ago 3
@crazzynez na terran and toss are equal, zerg is just too weak they need major improvements
TheGiantKiller8 1 month ago
@crazzynez u have no understanding of this game
scaMper982 1 month ago
@scaMper982 because i find mules OP? sure, toss has crono, zerg can mass produce drones, but for any race other than T that was 9 to 40 harvesters they would be significantly behind, yes catz lost his 3rd continually and lost his pool and infestation pit, and had no ups, which is why he lost, but the only reason it went to that point was Ts ability to remain equal in income with mules. Mules should balance out the game, not win you the game
crazzynez 1 month ago
catz' ladder account is col.standard, col.catz he uses for tournaments because he would fuck around on his col.catz account and he got really low on the ladder and it would take too long to climb back up so he just started a new account
crazzynez 1 month ago
mules make up for the lack of skill zerg needs to play
sirlisterofsmeg333 1 month ago
Mules so OP!!!1 I mean the Terran can chrono out SCV's at double speed or make ten of them at the same time like Protoss and Zerg can too right?!
..w wait what? They can't?
SODEMO2007 1 month ago
Also, the game is pretty balanced at higher level play, which is what Blizzard is doing. Most of the complaints are at lower level play, where the lack of skill makes certain races seem more powerful. Personally I think Zerg is the best race in SC2, however to exploit all the benefits of playing zerg a player has to have a very high APM to manage inject larve, creep spread and efficent unit production at the right time.
ShammGod126 1 month ago
I think alot of people don't realize that the mules didn't win Illusion the game; his excellent drop play sniping both the spawning pool and the infestor pit won him the game. Catz tried to all in and it didn't work out.
ShammGod126 1 month ago
@ShammGod126 your crazy if u think zerg is the best race, i think terran and toss are equal but zerg is a very weak race at the highest levels where one mistake can cause you your entire army in seconds... I dont think terran is op just zerg is too squishy weak, i hope blizzard increases the rate of creep spread two fold and double zergs hp regen speed to recover quicker from battles since they have such low health y not!!!
Terran can heal, repair, toss have quick shield recover speed... zerg?
TheGiantKiller8 1 month ago
@TheGiantKiller8 i play zerg. And zerg can retrain another army at once on 4 bases. with a macro hatch, which i get late game because of an excess of minerals, its even better. but i agree, the only thing zerg has going for them at the moment is skyzerg lategame and mutas vs. toss.
pyromite13 1 month ago
@pyromite13 i play zerg/toss not very good at zerg... i feel infestors are underused and hate being limited by the larva system... i cant keep on top of my injects either
TheGiantKiller8 1 month ago
@ShammGod126 but the point is it did work. catz destroyed illusions harvester count. but because of the op of mules it didnt end up helping catz at all. yes illusion played well and there were other factors to consider but to watch that video and say mules arnt seriously op... well that just means you play terrran
MrJoshuaBolster 1 month ago
if mules aren't OP, what is?
saladin2020 1 month ago
@saladin2020 Marines
GMan19861 1 month ago
You should cast both yourself and pros, thats what use to be so awesome about your channel
pattertatter 1 month ago
Awesome game! rly great! why dont you cast a few games from other vile-players each week? one or two and let the rest be your own gameplay?
flemmingnor 1 month ago
@bubba18sar Well, you are hating, because:
1) PsY is neutral... (you're obviously total loss if you don't understand that)
2) You're terran bronze and lose to zerg
3) You don't have a life and start bitching in comments about good casters and their sub's.
=> Good job!
Alidokta 1 month ago
Shakira's plateau. If you know what I mean.
KenDM 1 month ago
Nothiing but a zerg whine fest in Psy's comment section everytime I read it. Psy you should change you name to leader of whiners seriously. Of course Psy only shows the income tab when terran has 4 mules going. Doesn't mention that the zerg is mining more gas, doesn't talk about it later when Terran is only mining 500 minerals to Cats 950-1000. I knew as soon as he said that the "swarm" of Crying bitches would be all over the comments. Congrats sheep, your king has appeased you once again.
bubba18sar 1 month ago
@bubba18sar Or you could change your name leaders of whiners. "Owno Psy doesn't cast from a completely neutral point of few. What terrible".
11supplier 1 month ago
Fuck Terran bullshit
julesjordan 1 month ago
9 vs 40 harvesters. Psy: The game has even up quite a bit :).
nqkoi159 1 month ago 37
@nqkoi159 The funny thing is that they were actually even..
MilletGtr 1 month ago
do spanisiwa!
TnTZerg 1 month ago 2
@TnTZerg
Yeah ! Moar spanishiwa
Iverass 1 month ago
Wow, only Terran can lose practically all their workers and still have a greater mineral economy than 40+ enemy workers with like 5-6 Mules.
Illusion is a good player, and played well, but Catz should have won, and would have, if Terran was actually balanced. Marines, Mules and Marauders - Fucking fix them.
EngYneNine 1 month ago
I thought you said "Sigourney Wieners" at first.
GregBackwards 1 month ago
Down to 8 harvesters, no problem for the Terran...
keriozaraki 1 month ago 46
damn that was good game mules really fricken help
shipsimulatorfreak 1 month ago
Master Yoda impersonation at 6:25
MrRitx 1 month ago
Its lovely how people are so singleminded about this game. They think "Herp derp Illusion lost a bunch of workers but still managed to win Terran over powered !! " but they miss a lot of stuff.
Catz made a ton of sacrifises for the baneling bust. No third base, no upgrade, no tech at all and he was already way behind (you could argue that Zerg is forgiven you can just lose your hatch). Illusion was ahead, had 3 OCs, had upgrades and had already teched up to medivacs. After the bust it was even
N3OJerom 1 month ago
Comment removed
druidy2 1 month ago
@N3OJerom its obvious that most of the people that watch psy are zerg players that whine op every time an other race comes back from a rough situation but when a zerg player powers 30 drones with the trust fund he got cathing up in workers they consider it normal. Judging from the comments anyway
druidy2 1 month ago
@druidy2
If your units had to be constructed at the same place as your workers, you would realize it's more of a gamble than anything else to power drones hard after a massive upset. Meanwhile, Terran can do one more all-in and win. Even if they lose virtually all their economy.
tookedeamon 1 month ago
why the f are two illusion players both terran in two different teams? so much for originality.
MrRitx 1 month ago
those mules are ridiculous
babygravy696 1 month ago
Mules won the game.
pupsbobik 1 month ago 2
LOL@everyone crying about T fuck the haters stomp the zerg!!!
Drpitar 1 month ago
Hey everyone im a fellow sc2 caster that hosts many tournaments. Im only 14 and trying to get noticed. I recently hit 60 subs and would really appreciate it if you guys check out my channel! I do live casts of my 1v1’s and 2v2s. And if you don’t wanna check out my channel would you at least gimme a thumbs up to help me get noticed? Thanks everyone! :D
Yolgaming 1 month ago
lol terran
blaekman 1 month ago
I wanna see you play but once or twice a month it's good to see other vile members I guess.
danmanjones 1 month ago
and btw Psy way to showcase the shitty fucking poor excuse for skills from one of your Terran players. maybe next time pick a game that doesnt make him look like a complete fuck tard
wholelottanate 1 month ago
FUCK TERRAN!! this fucking bullshit is why i dont play SC2 at all anymore. this fucking game talks about being so balanced. sorry blizz pull your head out of your ass and balance your game.
wholelottanate 1 month ago
LEAVE.......YOUR CAT.......ALONE!!! Cats are fluffy, cute and adorable beings, be glad you got one:)
PRAISE THE CAT!!
eaSY1511 1 month ago
Don't take this the wrong way, but I almost prefer when you cast others, Psy. You're being way too hard on yourself when you're casting your own matches!
Iverath 1 month ago
The best way to win against terran is to deny one base, heras runbys even late tech against a not very very damaged terran is not winable, they snipe your tier3 shit with a few ghosts and you cant win in a macra fest. So just deny one base (2nd expo) and dont let them take it and defend it with your live because if they get it you have nearly to 100% lost.
TheBlackiwid 1 month ago
yes this mules are definatly op, a protos player or a zerg would have lost after such bad defense and loosing nearly all of his workers but not terran he just can summon instantly 50 worker worth mules and is with 10 workers left in front of you with your not herased fully mining 2 base. I think to kill terran you should prefer to go after the production but wait, they can fly away so just dont attack with ground at all because you cant win, ok maybe I overact a bit, but frustrating to see!
TheBlackiwid 1 month ago
Truth is illusion was just better
terran needs more apm to do the same basic things as toss/zerg
and terran is least played race on b net
evrything is just well balanced, its not whiners created this cool game its the blizzard and that's how i know who need to balance this game (which is already almost perfectly balanced).
MrBimbosz 1 month ago
MOAR GAMES OF OTHER PEOPLE
jase6190 1 month ago
Terrans are the real roches of the Sc2 universe no matter if you nuke them or not they still surive.
ZeelofTheMarty 1 month ago
@dfgkflkfgbdb Dude. In Korea, they counter banelings with marines.
No joke. All you need is micro.
goingfortheone1 1 month ago
When he says Cats I always think he speaks about his cat.
sacpelicancom 1 month ago
Oh no! 3 OCs not using mules for 30 seconds allows the terran to keep up with a 2 base zerg for 30 seconds (then drop to next to nothing) a little bit later! That's almost as imba as almost winning with only tier 1 units after 10 minutes against an opponent that was ahead in workers the whole time.
Cry more.
S2076 1 month ago
"Hello Sigourney Weaver"
Can see that the mental state of Psy becomes stranger every new replay.
sacpelicancom 1 month ago
I think people are missing the point at how easy it was for the zerg to bust down a wall, with just Bling/ling and completly destroy 2 mineral lines all this when he was massively behind from the start of the game for being greedy and punished for it.
Is that not an imba? I think so but nobody wants to talk about that, would it of been right if the Zerg had won that game? think about it, really, would that of been balanced for this zerg to take that game?
StarCraftRaver 1 month ago
@StarCraftRaver So your telling me breaking a terran with an all in against a terran who doesn't use his own bunkers, and has more then a 3rd of his forces (16 out of 40 marines and both medivacs) as well as was pumping out upgrades/tech (seige, 2 ebays, starport as well as a third command center) is broken?
Myrmidal 1 month ago
MULES...dear God...bliz is so retarded, they havent fixed what needs to be fixed, such as mules, ultralisk pathing and forcefields
FishTurd69 1 month ago
No matter how bad the zerg played (late lair, no gas, never got 3rd), no one should lose when it is 40-9 workers. Not to wine or so but this proves that mules are bit imbalanced.
Cimbom1990GS 1 month ago
@Cimbom1990GS "bit" is more of an understatement, i hope you understand that
FishTurd69 1 month ago
scumbag cat: meows the whole game, then shuts up at the end
onemileperhour 1 month ago 2
Mule spam is stupid, they should at least put a cooldown on this ability. If zerg forget to inject in a time in the game, it's usless queen energy for the rest of the game. For terran, no problem, you can just spam mules when you realize it...
nosfe333 1 month ago
@nosfe333 Yep, spreading creep and getting an absolutely vital speed bonus is completely useless.
HrKAG 1 month ago
@HrKAG What I mean is if zerg miss an inject, his macro is fuked hardcore. There is no easy way to get this stacked up energy back into larvae (only macro hatch... lol).
Just put a cooldown on the call mule ability and the terran will be forced to use scan as zerg is forced to use creep tumors if they fail their timings. This looks fair to me.
nosfe333 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Fuck you illusion. i hope you get cancer.
Anghelnicolae 1 month ago
T 9:40 Z
"now we have preety even game"
-bizz, plz... rly?
grosswick 1 month ago
I'm not sure if you were joking Psy, but mules are only temporary. Please don't make such a weak complaint about mules. Every race has their own macro mechanic. If Illusion was playing better he wouldn't even have had that many mules to call down in the first place. Epic play by winner :D
vixaroth 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@vixaroth
Oh please. "Each race has their own macro mechanic". So? Which other race can just shrug off losing all its workers? Or instantly fix a supply block? Or be completely impervious to cloak? Or own a mineral dump unit that literally counters everything?
Illusion played this game well, but this doesn't change the fact T is the most forgiving race of all. One mistake as Z and you lose, 1000 mistakes as T and you are still happy in the game.
TP5991 1 month ago 47
@TP5991 lol, cute.
HrKAG 1 month ago
@TP5991 What a load of garbage, have you ever played as Terran? Marines counter everything? Collosus? Storm? Seige Tanks? Banlings? Fungal? kill Marines is mass.
Terran need mules plain and simple, Zergs can drone and drone....and drone, until they need to react to a threat, Terrans have to balance army and SCVs zergs can have literally double the amount of workers than a Terran come mid game. Protoss have Chrono, can mass build structures with one probe, instantly,
StarCraftRaver 1 month ago
@TP5991 Terrans have to use the SCV through the whole building process, we have no natural healing and need SCV's for that further strengthening our need for mules. A scan comes at a heavy cost, and so does dropping a supply.
A Terran without mules would be a dead Terran.
StarCraftRaver 1 month ago
@TP5991 qq
RedHillRabbitoh 1 month ago
@TP5991 Sorry just finished watching the game, valid points :P
RedHillRabbitoh 1 month ago
@TP5991
Are you fucking retarded? No, really, what league are you in? I'd like to know this. Illusion played amazingly well in this game, kept Standard on the back foot the entire time. His marines were also upgraded with Stim and, later on, Combat Shields. Yeah, they certainly do counter everything if everything is un-upgraded zerglings and banelings (yes, they did have speed).
TerribleTractor 1 month ago
@TP5991 And, Orbitals in the early game can't do all 3 things which you described. Using them to fix supply blocks means you're bad, using them for mules is pretty nice but in some cases can make you mine out quicker. Using them for scans can certainly help deal with cloaked units or give you intel, but then herp derp you can't mule or supply drop. You shouldn't make such sweeping statements about a game that you're not playing professionally.
TerribleTractor 1 month ago
@TP5991 How exactly is terran forgiving? You can almost instantly lose your army to banelings, fungal growth, storms or forcefields. If you leave tanks undefended, they may get killed by mutas.
Grulps 1 month ago
@Grulps WOOPS! GUESS I MAEK MARINES AND SPREAD DEM HURP DURP. That's how.
TheAocowns 1 month ago
@TP5991 That obviously isn't true since the win rates are pretty even across all. Unless you think that all zerg players are better which is just stupid. Yes workers are less valuable for Terran but kill off a couple of reactors and tech labs and a Terran is screwed. You Obviously haven't played Terran if you think that Marines counter everything. Go play Terran and try making just Marines against a zerg player. You will get steamrolled by Roaches Banelings Infestors BroodLords.
hastyscorpion1 1 month ago
@TP5991
Yes each race has their own macro mechanic and every people is entitled to their own biased opinion.
Like you.
TheSazbak 1 month ago
@TP5991 what other race has the ability to pump 20 workers at once ? or make 10 supply depos at once without losing any mining time ? (hint hint , its zerg)
Think of the mule as +4 extra perma workers wich you lose for a while if you scan.
you are talking about like terran has infinite orbital command energy. If you lose all your workers as terran you are dead unless your opponent plays terrbily.
the extra supply depo that you drop costs 300 hundred (you lose a mule) so i think its a fair trade
druidy2 1 month ago
@druidy2
I'm somewhere between you and TP5.
You're totally right how mules work there, and about OCs not having infinite energy.
However, you also have to consider that if a Zerg pumps 20 workers at once, that's 20 units he can't have if the enemy pushes. Same with 10 Overlords, that's 20 larvae he can't use to attack.
Mules aren't infini-drop, and Larvae need to be managed. I wish I could send a reply to two people at once.. :/
StupidHead1010 1 month ago
@druidy2
Pardon, 10* in the event of the Overlords.
StupidHead1010 1 month ago
@druidy2 if losing that muledrop costs you 300 minerals, then every single building zerg puts down costs infinite tminerals in mining time for that one drone
machavellii 1 month ago
@druidy2 Let's be clear: mules don't cost 300 minerals. They cost energy. Energy recharges. Those 300 minerals aren't 'lost' numbnuts, you just get them a bit later. Stupid shit-dumb terran doesn't even know how his own race works.
kohle36 1 month ago
@TP5991 way to take everything out of proposion
druidy2 1 month ago
@TP5991 u dont always have 3 orbitals in that point in the game, and zerg can make multiple workers at once, protoss has crono boost
so... your argument is invalid :)
rollingling 1 month ago
@rollingling You can't argue against 6 MULEs making up for a 31 harvester gap; that is sooooo stupid and kept illusion in the game. Keep in mind MULEs ignore saturation, so you can have full saturation+MULEs on two base and have practically the same mineral income as a 3 base opponent (all illusion needed since he went pure marines); no matter how many probes/drones we make, we can't have 3 base mineral income on 2 base.
Inphinity2 1 month ago
@rollingling Zerg workers still use larva, which is basically an extra resource terrans don't even have to worry about. Sure you can pump out 30 drones, but now you can't build an army. 'Protoss has chrono boost'. And...what? You ever even played toss? Chrono is okay-ish early game and meh to useless afterwards. Try losing 30 probes and chrono boosting your way back to an econ while making an army. Having fun yet?
So...your argument is...wait you didn't have one
kohle36 1 month ago
@TP5991 Sounds like just another butthurt zerg too me. Maybe you should l2p instead of bitching about races.
How about Z's ability to instantly tech switch on a dime? But why talk about the strengths of your race when you can bitch about another race and hide your ineptitude?
geniusman16 1 month ago
@vixaroth mhhhm... Mules are temporary? An Orbital Command's energy is regenerated about 50 energy per 90 seconds, and how long does a mule last? Hmm... Mules are like adding 4 workers to your economy, which are replenish-able, and aren't affected by the saturation of other workers. If you lose it, well, just wait 90 more seconds and you got it back. Go search some Mule threads in Team Liquid or something, and you'll see all the math...
T0mTTT 1 month ago
@T0mTTT
mules mine at a rate equal to 3 workers and orbital costs same as 3 scvs
is there a problem?
vzq93 1 month ago
Spanishiwa or Nestea games as Spanishiwa's games are entertaining and Nestea's games are pretty rare.
Kozaack 1 month ago
Definitely keep casting other Vile games, but just not as much as you cast your own! <3
TheKindofaman 1 month ago 2
fuck catz and his stupid chin strap
smellhead11112222333 1 month ago
Mew you lil bitch :))
reventsucks 1 month ago
Shut up cat!
reventsucks 1 month ago 56
zerg op. got owned in beginning... mass ling for the win?
TheFubar5 1 month ago
Psy please cast more Illusion!!!
10WaysToRaize 1 month ago
Illusion? Like the folder that holds the game RapeLay? /jk
martinwm 1 month ago
Mules are a joke.
Dyabolikl 1 month ago
Typical zerg blaming the imbalance of mules for the win. Conveniently forgetting that Catz took a ton of damage before the baneling bust not to mention the crazy fast 3-2 upgrades that Illusion got.
Also it's very misleading when Psy says that he is up on minerals at the point he is around 900-1200 because 30 seconds later all of those mules are gone and he is way down to 600-700.
Mules don't last forever
hastyscorpion1 1 month ago
@hastyscorpion1 I think the point is that they last long enough to stabilize and pump out a shit ton of marines and workers immediately. Energy also recharges fairly quickly in sc2. Let's face it, if at ANY point in a game a zerg or protoss is down 40-9 workers, it's insta gg. Terrans can and do routinely come back from pretty massive worker deficits to win games.
kohle36 1 month ago
@hastyscorpion1 I don't really care about a 'balance' flame war, but I will say that the mechanic gives terran players a larger buffer for mistakes, I think this is why some players are frustrated by mules.
kohle36 1 month ago
@hastyscorpion1 Ha. You know what Mules cost? Energy. That's right, it takes around 50 seconds to create a mule, and 90 seconds for mules to expire. That means there will be around 4 Mules going at a time off 3 orbitals. They do last forever as long as you pay attention.
DisguisedNinjas 1 month ago
@hastyscorpion1
1 orbital have enough energy regen to allow one mule for the whole game. the regen is slightly faster though. with one orbital, at one point there can be two mules.
IIReJeCtSII 1 month ago
I think your style psy wouldve countered illusions better, since you used to favour macro hatches over a 3rd expand. and right into your mutabane
chazstahs 1 month ago
We want SPANISHIWA.
Chainsawfire 1 month ago
I just became an Illusion fan.
wardogPC 1 month ago
SUDDUP CAT
PIGMAN1391 1 month ago
Mules win another game. Such a stupid ability. At least Chrono Boost and Inject Larva don't directly give you more money.
TheSDM19 1 month ago
wtf did he call us this time?
GraveRobberXL 1 month ago
@GraveRobberXL he called us sigourney weavers haha
beauzuluuluz 1 month ago
CatZ is probably the best at baneling busting. He took on two guys while Total Biscuit did nothing with a baneling bust. He fucking made them eat shit!
TheAsianStarcraft 1 month ago
I was so surprised when I saw that Psy was casting a game he wasn't in.
TheFirestarter119 1 month ago
Zerg takes early, undefended third. Gets surpirsed when opponents early pressure takes it out. "herp derp so imba how is zerg supozed to stop thiss???+!!1"
SODEMO2007 1 month ago
@SODEMO2007 And if not, patethic mule-terran will have DOUBLE the income from the same number of bases, free to make both army and SVCs and zerg, stuck on 2-base have to choose from producing defenses and loosing the makro game from the start, or producing drones and loosing to whatever push terran feels like. Zerg do NOT get 1 base up for advantage, it's for necessity... sigh
SebbeK81 1 month ago
@SODEMO2007 I know man, it's such a hard thing to work out it's racking my skull lol!
StarCraftRaver 1 month ago
Are we going to see a marine splitt and uu~ uuuuu~~
zelan 1 month ago
Maybe a fast macro hatch instead of a third would be better.
brAysian 1 month ago
Mules are OP as shit
LowLanding 1 month ago
big meow at 5:32
fezan84 1 month ago
in this game illusion is scary good
dethem 1 month ago
Psy... I think i love you. You are such a funny commentator and your kick ass SC2 player!! You are one of my favorite commentators even better than Day9!! Keep up the good work!!! <33!!
ilovefood989 1 month ago
And that's why i don't play SC2 anymore game is BROKEN! Only OP Terran can do that after being TOTALLY decimated.
blackicicle 1 month ago
more CatZ plz
108mreko 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
mules are op
how op?
stupid op
ForgottenMemoryLost 1 month ago
mules are op
how op?
stupid op
ForgottenMemoryLost 1 month ago
mules are op
how op?
stupid op
ForgottenMemoryLost 1 month ago
mules are op
how op?
stupid op
ForgottenMemoryLost 1 month ago
Psy's cat was cheering for Catz.
ulfy01 1 month ago
yea mules are good....so is larva inject you crybaby bitches
NotAG4yName 1 month ago
@NotAG4yName it doesn't compare to inject, as you can't forget to inject for 4 minutes and then decide to stack 6 of them on one base
Rezikrisp 1 month ago
@NotAG4yName Reactors + Mules vs Inject meh..
martinarcand1 1 month ago
@NotAG4yName Yeah, they really should balance inject larva, maybe give terran some kind of building add-on that allows them to produce two units at once or something like that
ikoppel 1 month ago
@NotAG4yName You do realize zerg has NO other means of producing units at all, other than hatch? They can't make drones and army at the same time, and more than anything, injects can't be stacked. Forget to inject - you're screwed. Forget to mule, well, shiftclick and win, pro terran skillz.
SebbeK81 1 month ago
to counter that do 1 spine at both bases walk a queen down to 3rd before it pops queen + spine + ling reinforcements is more than enough