Argument for Torah's Divinity (New Version) Part One

[Tockwork]

Great video, thanks for the explanations and info.

[vulcanmat613]

as well as the fact that the talmud calls a fetus which has not yet developed beyond a certain point 'just water'; the talmud makes a similar statement about life being mostly water, and it was completed shorlty before muhammed came. The facts that the talmud knew eclipse those of islam by leaps and bounds - the talmud records the synodic month, a calculation just recently determined by hyper-sensitive NASA equipment, to be precisely what the talmud recorded in the name of rabban gamliel

[Tockwork]

part 2

These contradictions are somewhat proof of what religion is correct.

I believe in the Old Testament (Torah).

The Old Testament stated the Moses was the greatest prophet! Quran disagrees.

gday

[vulcanmat613]

Just to answer something you said about islam - someone recently put out a sefer(scholarly torah book) about all of the scientific knowledge chazal(the sages of the talmud) had, as well as an explanation of some things they said whcih seem to contradict science. To my knowledge, islam only says the fact that people are mostly made of water, but this was no great discovery - the fact that a person must drink so much of it shows this quite clearly,

[vulcanmat613]

however, there was a difference of .002, which means either NASA needs to recalibrate their machinery, since the first time they did it, they found a number further from the talmud's calculation, when they did it again more recently, they found it to be .002 different from rabban gamliel's - or we may employ a different reconciliation that was used by the Vilna Gaon in a verse in the book of prophets, but that is a different approach

[Tockwork]

part 1

Finally, Judaism was the ORIGINAL RELIGION. It was the first from god (and hopefully the only). It doesn't make any sense that god would change his ways.

Judaism has to be the correct religion, if you take a look at it.

Judaism states that a Messiah will indeed come and the torah sets out guidelines.

Christianity's Jesus hadn't fulfilled them.

Islam says that Jesus was a prophet instead, not the Messiah, and totally gets rid of the concept of a Messiah coming.

[Tockwork]

Two points that disproves Christianity is that the Torah had said what the Messiah was to do. (Gather the jews, war will end, and something about a temple)

Jesus had not done any of them.

Also, Jesus is god, correct? Jesus died on the cross? So God died?

The Quran has somewhat proof. It references to some scientific information that has only come to light recently.

[Tockwork]

Islam and Judaism are my favorite religions. I hope one of them is the correct one.

It's kind of hard to find proof of what book is actually the word of G-D/Allah.

I have ordered a free Quran and I have a Bible right next to me which carries the Old Testament (Torah) and the New. I'm going to personally read through so I can decide which is the word of god. You can't decide what the right religion is by viewing youtube videos or reading articles on the internet.

[vulcanmat613]

We shave off more of the question by showing the bible of the Samaritans, sworn enemies of Torah Jews, who have the exact same torah as we do(with an exception of some crazy commandment to make sacrifices at har grizim, their ancient idol-worshipping mountain) - they surely would never have accepted torah from us if we had written it then, it must have been because they knew the torah had been written before their arrival at the time of sancheriv(this is about 400 years before josephus).

[vulcanmat613]

We then go back to the era of the division of the ten tribes - we know they kept the Torah, however they never would have accepted it from judah, or vice versa, if the other had written itat the time of the feud. This puts us back another 400 years(or so, I have to look at the exact numbers).

Take a look at Rabbi Avigdor Miller's book 'rejoice o youth', or 'awake my glory', where he goes through the whole timeline, showing how it must have been written at the time of Moshe rabbeinu.

[vulcanmat613]

Since it was written at that time, it would have been impossible to convince the entire Jewish people of an entire series of national miracles(splitting the sea, plagues, giving of the torah, g-d's voice, people dying as a clear result of G-d's punishment, miracles in the tabernacle, korach's death, the plague stopping with the death of zimri, daily manna, and more.

[myp410up]

The Torah was not given at Har Sinai. The Torah, being defined as the 5 books of Moshe, was not brought down by him from the mountain. He brought only the luchos. He allegedly wrote 13 sifrei Torah on the day of his petirah (which being on Shabbos is quite interesting since ksivo is a melocho). If Torah means commandments, many were given in Mitzrayim and many more after maamad Har Sinai. So what is "Torah" and when was it "given" to Yidden?

[vulcanmat613]

You're taking medrashim, which are not necessarily meant cepeshutam, and distorting them - where does it say Moshe died on shabbos? The seforim say that moshe had a malaach help him write those 13 seforim(similar to our mesorah about the shach),; what I am speaking about here is the aseres hadibros - plus, you leave out important information - your question sounds similar to a tiferes yonason, without the teretz, lol. He always brings together chazal's and explains them as having no stiros

[vulcanmat613]

Honestly, you should ask a rov next time you have these kases - any good rosh yeshiva or lamdan in general would appreciate them, but to go around showing off your 6th grade education in chumash to a bunch of people online is a tad pathetic - you can ask much better kashes than what you ask(go to rav reisman's motzi shabbos shiurium for some great contradictions) - we have a rule from reb chaim 'fun a kashyeh shtarb mir nesht' - you dont die from a question. Ever learn reb akiva eiger?

[vulcanmat613]

Anyway, to put on my reb yonason hat, I'll answer you qith a chazal(i think it's in the zohar) which explains that the sefer torah is , at its core, a listing and set of Hashem's shaimos(names) - this is how we understand jpw Adam had a sefer torah(like the medrash says). So it is very possible to have a sefer torah without having all the commandmnets, or all of the events listed in the pashtus of the pesukim, previously written. The torah was written to take the form, using simple hebrew words

[vulcanmat613]

of whatever would have transpired during the course of history - i.e. had klal yisroel not done the chait haegel(sin of the golden calf), the torah would not have written it, and the shaimos would have been rearranged to spell something else. I do not understand your problem with proof based on the aseres hadibros, however to answer your other question, I am not assuming anythijng in the proof - that is what people have as a knee-jerk reaction when you tell them a verse in the torah.

[vulcanmat613]

You see, christians tend to 'prove' xtianity by saying 'well, the New testament says etc..', and this is their proof. Secularists, former-frum Jews, or anyone else for that matter, because of their cynicism , assume the same when you tell them 'the torah says..' - they dont even think about what you're telling them! Just 'Stop! you're using a verse! that must mean you're proving the torah wityh itself...blind faith again...'. This is not what I am doing.

[vulcanmat613]

First, we take a statement in the torah. Then, we analyze the nature of the Jewish people's belief for the past 3,400 years(aside from recent reform, conservative, recon, and otherwise heretical movements),; even heretical Jews in the past never questioned maamar har sinai. We then take the fact that Jews all over the world have the exact same torah, with minimal differences in custom and which authority they follow

[vulcanmat613]

We shave off about 2000 years of wondering 'well, couldn't it have been changed in 3,400 years?' by Josephus's statements made 2,000 years ago listing all books of the torah, and prophets/writings.

[myp410up]

I reject your fake false DEAD god, so there! My G-d never wore diapers. Can you say that about your idol, fool?

[Salamlcolholam]

also there is a midrash that all the jews died and were then revived after hearing the voice of g-d

[vulcanmat613]

yeah, but all were resurrected, and all remembered what had happened

[Salamlcolholam]

i know i was just saying that to emphasize the power of that encounter

[josevanreyes]

Also dont portray Judaism as some sort of religon of peace. What about your armies being ordered to kill innocent men, women and children? eithnically cleanse them?

[vulcanmat613]

The canaanites were innocent?? Your own teachings say they were evil, from cham.

[josevanreyes]

Innocent baby children evil? Islam talks of those who are guilty not innocent children not to forget killing the animals too.

[vulcanmat613]

fool, in war we can't be so careful. When a country fights a war, people die - it's natural. Islam was the cause of countless wars, so dont play liberal with me. The babies were not being punished, they were innocent - but as you know from histroy the good are punished with the bad. As for animals - you've got to be kidding me - the animals were killed in the flood too. g-d's commands are not for our westernized scrutiny

[vulcanmat613]

According to you, anything but complete submission to allah is "guilt" - thats not peace. g-d never told us to wipe out canaan because they werent jews, it was because they were truly evil. for example, shlomo hamelech was at peace with his neighbors, yet they did not accept torah - cant say the same for any muslim leader, especially during the bloody caliphates.

[josevanreyes]

Thirdly Muhammed pbuh was not a Pedophile because Aisha hit pubery and was ready for marraiages it was a cultural norm. Aisha was muture enough to be a nurse in war so why could she not marry? Also Jews say Issac married a 3 year old Rebecca and Moses was ordered to rape a 3 year old child. Again even pure ignorance in your own religon

[vulcanmat613]

rivka was 3 when she was engaged. the actual interaction began much later. what you claim to be a story about moshe is a complete fabrication used in anti-semitic circles, i'd like to see where you got that from. aisha was not pubescent and even if she was, muhammed was a grown, illiterate man - with a 9 year old girl, that is certainly pedophilia.

[josevanreyes]

Dont give me that crap. Even if she was 3 when engaged it still probably means she was married early. Its culture. And dont tell me lies aswell. Aishia did hit puberty thats how they knew she was ready for marriage. She was a nurse in war and already knew how to cook food and look after the house.

[vulcanmat613]

It's not garbage - yitzchak was all about gevurah, or self-restraint, he had no reason to want sex that badly. According to the opinion that rivka was 3(some say she was at a mature age already), she obviously was just promised to yitzchak - in no country or culture was it permitted to be with a toddler, plus avraham and his family were known worldwide for their decency.

[josevanreyes]

Again ive checked Jewishs sources and they say they married 3. Muhammed pbuh was also about self restrain. Aisha was given to him by Abu Bakar her farther. Muhammed pbuh did not ask for marriage. She was married to Muhammed pbuh when she reached puberty

[josevanreyes]

Also the early Christians where monothiest! Again look up on your history. Look up the Ebointes where Jews and accepted Jesus. Look up the Nazerenes. Look up Peter.

[vulcanmat613]

ebonites?? are you serious? post-paul they became the chrisians of today and the past 2000 years. the early christians were ignorant jews at best - dont even talk about peter, he's a cae i can make a whole video on in itself.

[josevanreyes]

No but that was not your point you stated christians where always pagans. But they where no. The nazrenes and the Ebonites where monothiest they where the earliest followers and they where JEWS. Christianity came after them. Point is early christians where monothiest FACT.

[vulcanmat613]

I said christians were pagans due to their new testament, which is polytheistic and indeed pagan. The most early manifestations of christianity no longer exist, and they were pagan as well, since jesus gathered followers based on miracles done through kochos hatumah.

[josevanreyes]

No your arguement was Christianity began with Paul which is false. Moses did Miracles also so what? Jesus healed etc because it was a gift and evidance

[vulcanmat613]

only g-d heals. people cannot heal, and those who claim to are no better than witch doctors and the like. moshe's miracles were quite different and were national - i.e, krias yam suf and the makos. dont even make a comparison - i said modern day christian doctrines, those based on the new testament, are from paul. before him they were just a small group of confused jews and pagans who believed in some guy who openly broke shabbos.

[josevanreyes]

Bro your so ignorant. Firstly you talk about Crusaders vs Muslims. Dude do some research on those wars. Crusadars came and killed every Muslim and JEW. An eye witness stated blood was up to the horses knee. Saladin saved Jerusalem and the jews from slaughter so dont stand there and act like we fought a unjust war

[vulcanmat613]

i wasnt calling the crusades a christian or muslim decision, however both sides were very combative and bellicose, it was bound to happen. muslims killed jews too - remember, this was before rambam came and humanized your "philosophy".

[josevanreyes]

No both sides where no combative or beelicose before. We Muslims united with the Jews to cleane the temple mount when it was used a rubbish bin by christians. We lived side by side in Jerueslam and we fought to save Jerusalem from butchers. As for Humanizing our Philosphy it was done by Muhammed pbuh. Islam is peace

[vulcanmat613]

You know, just because you and your PR guys repeat "islam is the religion of peace" does not make it so. The koran calls for the extermination of the kufar, if there was a coalition between muslims and jews, it was akin to that between america and russia during WWII.

[ThePsychoguy]

Some questions from a skeptic: If the revelation is such a historical event, why do we not have independent records other than the Bible (letters, journals, etc.)? Also, Christians and Muslims accepting the revelation is no surprise, since they claim that their religion springs from Judaism. Lastly, I think it'd be interesting to see what kind of records you have linking the rabbis from Moses himself. What kind of records would the historians you mention have?

[vulcanmat613]

healthy skepticism is fine: other nations do have records of the revelation, as it was a world-changing time - however most are from empires and peoples that no longer exist today, however I'd recommend researching it on google for exact documentation. There is a book called "sefer hadoros" which links many prominent families in the Jewish community with moshe, ahron, to dovid and the temple era, down to the first and second galus on

[vulcanmat613]

Early christians were not Jewish for the most part - they were pagan following the original apostles. The fact that these pagan people knew of the revelation is astounding, as is the fact that arab muslims at the time of muhammed also believed in the revelation at sinai, the documents I've seen from neighboring people(i.e. hittites) which testify to the revelation notwithstanding.

[RandySchmurkadurk]

So if a redneck with a wifebeater in Arkansas develops a love for Torah and converts officially, and marries another redneck convert from Arkansas who converts officially, and they have a kid, the kid is more Jewish than me, someone with the name Cohen who was raised in the synagogue, but never formally converted?

(No offense meant to rednecks or people from Arkansas or to people who wear wifebeaters, there's nothing wrong with that, I was just using it for sake of the question).

[vulcanmat613]

I know many former rockstars, comedians, actors, and people you would consider rednecks who either were born Jewish and returned to torah after not being raised observant, or who were goyim who converted. Torah goes beyond your narrow scope of obvious social bias - who cares what a person's past is? If he/she wants to change, we don't discriminate..

[asongtowardslife]

That is a wonderful answer and I hope G-d continues to keep you, unwavering in your path. Shalom.

[vulcanmat613]

I don't care if your name is Mordechai hebrew - if you are not jewish according to halacha, you are not Jewish. I already explained this to you, but you have an obvious emotional bias and you want to call yourself Jewish without following the torah, so you follow whoever comes to you and says "hey! you can be jewish and not wear tefillin, keep shabbos, or eat kosher!"

[gr1014]

Wearing the blazer in this vid.

[RandySchmurkadurk]

And anyway, how does any Jew know that they are truly born Jewish? During the 2000 year exile, anyone could have had an ancestor marry a Non-Jewish mother, and then they just raised the kid Jewish without formal conversion. With enough people raised that way and intermarriage with others also raised that way, anyone could be a Non-Jew and not know it, correct?

And in the above post I wasn't referring to you as the rabbi, but I just meant any rabbi could say something like that.

[vulcanmat613]

We're very good record-keepers. You can open a book called "sefer hadoros" which shows you the chain of jewish families, many of which are represented today, dating back to moses. Before the reform movement of the 1800's, there was not a jew who did not keep torah - karaites were very well separated from the torah jews, and those who kept torah would not allow non-kosher conversions.

[RandySchmurkadurk]

But this "law" is not mentioned in Tanakh, and I am a Cohen, a distinction passed down via father. So you're saying that a Non-Priest Rabbi has the authority to call me (a person with the Kohanim chromosome) a non-Jew?

[vulcanmat613]

Tanakh is not all of the torah. The oral law, or the talmud, is an integral, inseparable part of the torah - ive spoken about this elsewhere on my video comments. Just because a specific halacha is not mentioned immeidatelty in the tanakh, does not mean it is not hinted to in it, or said explicitly in the talmud.

[RandySchmurkadurk]

I have a bit of a question about the Oral Torah. According to it, I'm not a Jew because my dad is only Jewish and not my mother. Yet under Nuremberg Nazi law, I would've been killed or thrown into a labor camp.

Why is this? How is it that I am not Jewish?

[vulcanmat613]

Hitler did not care if you were Jewish by torah law - his interest and desire was to kill anyone with even an once of Jewish blood. It was not genocide - it was extermination of a genetic pool of millions of people. You are not Jewish, at all, however it is very good that you sympathize with the plight of the Jews, and G-d loves those who love Jews - you will receive olam haba, or a place in the world to come if you simply follow the 7 laws of noah.

[bchristhor]

ur eliashiv isn't a semite

[vulcanmat613]

semite means from shem, noah's son. Any Jew is a semite, no matter what country he lives in - rav eliashiv is a jew just like a middle eastern jew.

[tongueincheek81]

I've read somewhere that Ovadia Yosef is a better authority than Eliashiv

[vulcanmat613]

It's not "better" or "worse" it doesn't work that way. Rav Ovadia is the main posek for the sepharidc community, and rav eliashiv is the main authority of the ashkenazim. The fact that you refer to them without proper respect tells me you know nothing about either one of them.

[bchristhor]

hehehehehehehehe

[israelappel]

Great video!