God Ky is so weak! The person playing him seemed to try so hard, hitting much better combos and FRC like crazy, but it just didn't seem to matter. He would make one mistake and that was the end of the fight for him.
Believe it or no Kaqn is considered THE best OS player in Honshu right now. You have to realize that Ky is a very pressure based character so theres a good chance you will prorate a lot, so you can FRC all day long and STILL get 50% less damage on a good combo. Ky is powerful, its just that a good OS player won't fall for the pressure game and wait for Ky to make a mistake.
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Pressure is kind of a BS stradegy for anyone except like Bridget, and even then it doesn't work if the enemy knows what you're up to before you start.
Pressure is NOT a BS strategy in GG. So much so that the developers had to create three different ways for people to get out of pressure situations and its STILL a very popular strategy.
Actually there's 4 ways to get out of it. Burst, Dead Angle, Instant Guard and now Slash Back. This only proves my point that, when all the cards are played, Ky really doesn't have much going for him.
You have to be kidding me. I'm a Ky player and that's possibly his WORST combo starter. It's a forced prorate of 50%, and with a character like Ky, who has moves that prorate a lot and the fact he does the worst damage in the game, throw is a terrible combo starter for him.
Ky can be VERY pressure oriented, his sweep is incredibly good, and CSE on Oki is a free blockstring for Ky. B&Bs are used even in top level play, in fact that's where they matter most.
Ezrael15, I don't think you use throw correctly then. It's combo can do just about as much damage as any of Ky's combos. But again, this only proves my point that Ky is harder to use. Everyone keeps barking about the pressure but that's something any skilled player can predict and counter.
Throw is a much more viable option of using to cash in on cranked guard bar AFTER using pressure. It leads to severely prorated damage, you can do much more off of something like Stun Dipper RC -> S -> 2HS -> air combo.
If you think pressure isn't an extremely important part of fighting games, then you really don't understand them at all. Throw can also be countered with a quick move, a throw break, an overdrive, or even your own throw. Every single thing in the entire game can be countered.
To build on this, using throw is a means of a quick mixup, it creates fear and makes pressure more effective and opens up other options. Throw FRC, as I said twice already, is extremely prorated and I only use it to score a kill if it's within reach. I don't use it often because I know there are better options for comboing. Throw is very easily one of his worst combo starters, any proclaimed Guilty Gear player will confide in that.
Throw cannot be countered. If throw is capable of landing, it lands. Otherwise your character performs his normal h or 6h(depending on what you're doing). And Stun Dipper is very situational. You have to be the perfect distance from the enemy for the second part of Stun Dipper to even land, and after a BB that's ify.
Pressure is a great part of fighting games, I'm just Ky sucks at it, if only because everyone knows how his pressure works and thusly knows how to get around it.
Throws can be escaped, and if the throw is seen (which isn't that hard) it can easily be down + punched resulting in a short combo ending in a knockdown.
Stun dipper is no more situational than any other of Ky's combos, it's not difficult to learn the correct distance, nor is it hard to get the placement. Ky's pressure has some very large holes in it, which is why his pressure relies on the player being aware of these holes and knowing what to do when the opponent tries to use them.
It seems a little unlikely to combo off of "seeing" someones throw. I assume you mean seeing the person run up to you, which if they use FD to stop then punching isn't going to help much. And Stun Dipper is a terrible attack. There's only a small specific distance at which the second hit will land. If the second hit is blocked then Ky is completely vulnerable. How can people love Stun Dipper but hate Grand Viper so much?
If they FD brake, how in the world are they going to punish a down + punch unless they score a counter hit? And I don't think GV is a terrible attack, some of Sol's most damaging combos include it. Stun Dipper outside of a combo is terrible (unless you're fighting Jam or something and countering her FB Puffball), but it really isn't hard to space it correctly when you're doing a combo. Not only that, with 25% Ky can combo off his sweep by using Sweep -> CSE FB, rather than wasting it on throw.
Actually I was just making the point that 2p wouldn't work, depending on the skill of the Ky player.
Sweep can be blocked, throw can't, which makes lightning sphere more wasteful of tension(unless you wait to see if sweep landed, which can screw up lightning sphere). You still have to be pretty close in order to combo off it, so why not just dash, FB and hit throw. If they attack you'll automatically block it, and if not you'll land a throw.
2P will come out in time. The range that Sweep -> LS will combo is surprisingly large, in fact I'm pretty sure on some characters you can do it from max range. And it's better to do that because throw does piddly damage.
Anyways, I'm done with theory fighter. Throw, in my opinion, is a terrible combo starter for Ky in the most common case, I find his other combo options more useful (and factually stronger to boot).
You cant always burst or DA and Instant Guard does not create an advantage, just reduces disadvantage. Ky has great normal attack range, very simple moves and comboes, high priority, great projectiles, low recovery and and followups from almost any move. OS has very limited examples of these but has much MUCH higher damage potential (MUCH).
You can say Ky's moves are simple all you want, I learned OS quicker than I learned Ky though, so the only reason I see you saying that is just cause everyone else does.
Since this argument will probably just go on, I will summarize my points:
1: Good OS players have to be, and usually are, patient.
2: Kaqn is CONSIDERED the BEST OS player.
3: Pressure is a viable strategy in a game that relies heavily on mobility, high-low mixups and baiting.
4: Ky is one of the most well balance characters in the game, very capable of creating advantageous situations by pressuring opponents, but still very B&B.
c00lwatter, this only proves my point. Pressure and B&B are very useful against someone who doesn't know how to play the game against players well, but against someone with experience in their character, it's almost useless because they can probably get out of it. Thusly, in the end Ky is harder to win as because that's all he has.
Burst can only be done with a full burst meter. Dead angling costs 50% tension. Throw Breaks require prediction of a throw in the opponents part, which defeats the purpose of a throw in the first place. The best ways to escape tension are with Slashbacking (required little tension and retarded good timing) and Instant blocking (No tension, but not guaranteed to let you escape)
Lol, is this a video or a gaming debate?
666culorto666 5 months ago
damn im so jeluos to ps2 players :D
labumba0 2 years ago 3
first round had a fucking sick finish
scukmyass 3 years ago
lol sorry i didnt read the "in honshu" part
f4u57 4 years ago
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so this is the best os player u know of? or out there cuz i dont mean to sound like a jerk but im pretty sure os can be played way way better
f4u57 4 years ago
God Ky is so weak! The person playing him seemed to try so hard, hitting much better combos and FRC like crazy, but it just didn't seem to matter. He would make one mistake and that was the end of the fight for him.
Tokorai 4 years ago
Believe it or no Kaqn is considered THE best OS player in Honshu right now. You have to realize that Ky is a very pressure based character so theres a good chance you will prorate a lot, so you can FRC all day long and STILL get 50% less damage on a good combo. Ky is powerful, its just that a good OS player won't fall for the pressure game and wait for Ky to make a mistake.
c00lwatter 4 years ago
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Pressure is kind of a BS stradegy for anyone except like Bridget, and even then it doesn't work if the enemy knows what you're up to before you start.
Tokorai 4 years ago
Pressure is NOT a BS strategy in GG. So much so that the developers had to create three different ways for people to get out of pressure situations and its STILL a very popular strategy.
c00lwatter 4 years ago
Actually there's 4 ways to get out of it. Burst, Dead Angle, Instant Guard and now Slash Back. This only proves my point that, when all the cards are played, Ky really doesn't have much going for him.
Tokorai 4 years ago
Also, with the ability to break grabs, Ky has more or less lost his best combo starter.
Tokorai 4 years ago
Pressure is great for 4 characters in GG, Chipp, Millia, Jam and Bridget since they are meant for close quarter attack and high mobility.
c00lwatter 4 years ago
You have to be kidding me. I'm a Ky player and that's possibly his WORST combo starter. It's a forced prorate of 50%, and with a character like Ky, who has moves that prorate a lot and the fact he does the worst damage in the game, throw is a terrible combo starter for him.
Ky can be VERY pressure oriented, his sweep is incredibly good, and CSE on Oki is a free blockstring for Ky. B&Bs are used even in top level play, in fact that's where they matter most.
Ezrael15 3 years ago
Ezrael15, I don't think you use throw correctly then. It's combo can do just about as much damage as any of Ky's combos. But again, this only proves my point that Ky is harder to use. Everyone keeps barking about the pressure but that's something any skilled player can predict and counter.
Tokorai 3 years ago
Throw is a much more viable option of using to cash in on cranked guard bar AFTER using pressure. It leads to severely prorated damage, you can do much more off of something like Stun Dipper RC -> S -> 2HS -> air combo.
If you think pressure isn't an extremely important part of fighting games, then you really don't understand them at all. Throw can also be countered with a quick move, a throw break, an overdrive, or even your own throw. Every single thing in the entire game can be countered.
Ezrael15 3 years ago
To build on this, using throw is a means of a quick mixup, it creates fear and makes pressure more effective and opens up other options. Throw FRC, as I said twice already, is extremely prorated and I only use it to score a kill if it's within reach. I don't use it often because I know there are better options for comboing. Throw is very easily one of his worst combo starters, any proclaimed Guilty Gear player will confide in that.
Ezrael15 3 years ago
Throw cannot be countered. If throw is capable of landing, it lands. Otherwise your character performs his normal h or 6h(depending on what you're doing). And Stun Dipper is very situational. You have to be the perfect distance from the enemy for the second part of Stun Dipper to even land, and after a BB that's ify.
Pressure is a great part of fighting games, I'm just Ky sucks at it, if only because everyone knows how his pressure works and thusly knows how to get around it.
Tokorai 3 years ago
Throws can be escaped, and if the throw is seen (which isn't that hard) it can easily be down + punched resulting in a short combo ending in a knockdown.
Stun dipper is no more situational than any other of Ky's combos, it's not difficult to learn the correct distance, nor is it hard to get the placement. Ky's pressure has some very large holes in it, which is why his pressure relies on the player being aware of these holes and knowing what to do when the opponent tries to use them.
Ezrael15 3 years ago
It seems a little unlikely to combo off of "seeing" someones throw. I assume you mean seeing the person run up to you, which if they use FD to stop then punching isn't going to help much. And Stun Dipper is a terrible attack. There's only a small specific distance at which the second hit will land. If the second hit is blocked then Ky is completely vulnerable. How can people love Stun Dipper but hate Grand Viper so much?
Tokorai 3 years ago
If they FD brake, how in the world are they going to punish a down + punch unless they score a counter hit? And I don't think GV is a terrible attack, some of Sol's most damaging combos include it. Stun Dipper outside of a combo is terrible (unless you're fighting Jam or something and countering her FB Puffball), but it really isn't hard to space it correctly when you're doing a combo. Not only that, with 25% Ky can combo off his sweep by using Sweep -> CSE FB, rather than wasting it on throw.
Ezrael15 3 years ago
Actually I was just making the point that 2p wouldn't work, depending on the skill of the Ky player.
Sweep can be blocked, throw can't, which makes lightning sphere more wasteful of tension(unless you wait to see if sweep landed, which can screw up lightning sphere). You still have to be pretty close in order to combo off it, so why not just dash, FB and hit throw. If they attack you'll automatically block it, and if not you'll land a throw.
Tokorai 3 years ago
2P will come out in time. The range that Sweep -> LS will combo is surprisingly large, in fact I'm pretty sure on some characters you can do it from max range. And it's better to do that because throw does piddly damage.
Anyways, I'm done with theory fighter. Throw, in my opinion, is a terrible combo starter for Ky in the most common case, I find his other combo options more useful (and factually stronger to boot).
Ezrael15 3 years ago
I guess that's the whole concept of combat styles. Agree to disagree.
Tokorai 3 years ago
You cant always burst or DA and Instant Guard does not create an advantage, just reduces disadvantage. Ky has great normal attack range, very simple moves and comboes, high priority, great projectiles, low recovery and and followups from almost any move. OS has very limited examples of these but has much MUCH higher damage potential (MUCH).
c00lwatter 4 years ago
You can say Ky's moves are simple all you want, I learned OS quicker than I learned Ky though, so the only reason I see you saying that is just cause everyone else does.
Tokorai 4 years ago
Since this argument will probably just go on, I will summarize my points:
1: Good OS players have to be, and usually are, patient.
2: Kaqn is CONSIDERED the BEST OS player.
3: Pressure is a viable strategy in a game that relies heavily on mobility, high-low mixups and baiting.
4: Ky is one of the most well balance characters in the game, very capable of creating advantageous situations by pressuring opponents, but still very B&B.
c00lwatter 4 years ago 4
c00lwatter, this only proves my point. Pressure and B&B are very useful against someone who doesn't know how to play the game against players well, but against someone with experience in their character, it's almost useless because they can probably get out of it. Thusly, in the end Ky is harder to win as because that's all he has.
Tokorai 3 years ago
Burst can only be done with a full burst meter. Dead angling costs 50% tension. Throw Breaks require prediction of a throw in the opponents part, which defeats the purpose of a throw in the first place. The best ways to escape tension are with Slashbacking (required little tension and retarded good timing) and Instant blocking (No tension, but not guaranteed to let you escape)
Pandaman64 3 years ago
Really Pandaman64? I didn't know ANY of that cause I've never played the game or read the instruction book.
/sarcasm off
Tokorai 3 years ago
I MUST GET THAT SONG!
Vulcan422 4 years ago
New theme for the win!!!
shadnose 4 years ago
lol tried to IB it huh? XD XD
recca4001 5 years ago