Hi @TAPriceCTR I see, So, you are an "us." Tell you what, you're probably right. And may I add, being able to read the universe's messages is really as better than a religion without the dogma or guilt,
Hi @TAPriceCTR . . .yes, what you say is true, however, if you are implying astrology is a belief, you are sadly mistaken. That's like saying that music is a belief. . .do you believe in music?
Hi @TAPriceCTR Nice spinoff. . . no, that's not what I said. W.D. Gann was quite a proponent for astrology, as was J.P. Morgan. . . only the uneducated in the field would close his eyes to the obvious. . .
@chadow7231 how is that a spin? you compared astrology to music which is nothing but pleasant art. the creator or listener can give it meaning but music in and of itself is meaningless. noones life is controled by music.
Hi @TAPriceCTR and no one's life is "controlled" by Astrology. Like music, only people trained to recognize the language of the li'l dots on paper can make it "work."
however the musical score will read the same whether an amateur, profesional, or computer is reading it. with astrology the stars do not change, but the alleged significance does.
hi @TAPriceCTR I think the word "however" is an abstract in its own right. As a musician who also taught music, I cannot agree on your premise. I can say the same about an astrology chart - it "will read the same whether an amateur, professional, or computer is reading it."
continued: Although the stars do not change, the planets (of which we are more interested) do change and have various significance by the nature of their position as the Sun determines the seasonal changes in the upper and lower latitudes on this planet.
@chadow7231 you can say it will read the same regardless of who or what reads the stars but that is pattently false. give the same information to 10 different astrologers and you get 10 different results.
there is a measured, calculable, verifiable, scientific causality to how the angle of the earth relative to the location of the sun to determines the seasons. I can simulate the effect with a heat lamp and a piece of sheet metal. you can not simulate how these psychic rocks impose their will.
hi @TAPriceCTR well, I guess you told me !!! However, what you are stating is only partially accurate - and only describes, as far as the modern-day astrologer proponents go, the current suppositions that all astrologers are alike. Assemble 10 different Traditional Astrologers and you will receive the same answer to any question or situation accurately and succinctly. What you are stating above is your lack of understanding about the actual situation concerning astrology's practitioners.
Respond to this video... continued: I am happy that you can duplicate earth's causal seasonal activity with heat lamps and strips of sheet metal. . . quite a feat in my world! And, you are correct, you cannot simulate the electro-magnetic field that the solar system performs with your lamps and metalic strips. I have no idea why you refer to the planets as "psychic rocks," planetary activity has a rhythm and recurring cycles that are easily observed.
There are 4 Element in this universe..What is 4 Sigma..there are 6 hour quarter of the day...X 4 is 24 hour for 1 day..Dayllight and Night..Sun and Moon..Yang and Ying..
Time is x..this is symbol of HALION IO ION EON Electron and Proton..It is also mean 6..The Number of Sigma..6666 is XXXX or WWWW is the same mening..It is Taurat,Zabur,Injil and Quran...4 Sigma
The Cardinal have two face..12,3,6,9..mean The Ending point of Capricorn=12,Aries=3,Cancer=6,Libra=9..and the Beginning of Aquarius=12,Taurus=3,Leo=6,Scorpio=9..
Why is HALIOS=(ALION) or A LION(LEO) have 2 different colour of eye..one blue and one black?ALION is ALIEN...That is the Sign of EYE ⊙ if you see that it is the (i) or the symbol of saucer or Eye...
RA is about ⊕⊗⊙ Eye..or i mean X= the number 10 or ion..alpha&omega is 360° but 1 eye mean half way like 180° that mean from the constellation of Leo(Pyramid)
A Pyramid is like A prism can be used to break light up into its constituent spectral colors (the colors of the rainbow). Prisms can also be used to reflect light, or to split light into components with different polarizations,So that why Olympic London on 2012 the Thema is about 1 eyes..mean Ra..or Halios..the IO..i On...Aeon...or i on..the focus..
Hi@chadow723...Pyramid is like A prism can be used to break light up into its constituent spectral colors (the colors of the rainbow). Prisms can also be used to reflect light, or to split light into components with different polarizations..So that why 2012 you will see the Olimpic London thema is about 1 eyes...The Halios...Io..Ion..Aon..
Astronomy&Astrology is the same meaning..just the word of Onomy when including the connecting vowel -o-that is commonly used in connecting two elements of Greek origin) a system of rules, laws, or knowledge about a body of a particular field; distribution, arrangement, management and Ology is the meaning of Logica..both are in Union..
Astronomy=Pisces,Astrology=Aries....Astronomy=Ages Of Capricorn will enter Sagittarius(Galactic Center).Astrology=Ages Of Aquarius..will enter Capricorn(Galactic Center) .
Why Astrology not change for say the first House now is rule by Jupiter and the first house own by Pisces and the Sign of Pisces now is the Sign of Aries like this ϒ...Peace..
hi @andromr1969, well, there you have it symbolic structure and physical structure. . .both are in union so I guess I'll stay with the symbolic side of the coin and let Pisces be what it is when needed as a Pisces signature.
Yes astrology is different then astronomy and science..but Astrology said when 21 March every year the Sun is entering the Aries Zodiac but in Astronomy Science try to look use a telescope or google Sky Map it show 21 March the Sun is still at Pisces..different 30º
he stated "We don't claim that the planets influence a vibe or ANYTHING!" Well then you better look up the defination of Astrologer! Because the defination clearly shows a belief in the influence of human affairs from celestial objects
near the end of this video he states its based a series of principles (i assume that we should apply to our life)
Well, most principles can be applied to our lives and doesn't make any difference where the stars or planets were at a certain time.
u r definitely right in saying this crap has nothing to do with science
u r definitely right in saying that if u ask 10 different people a question all who have studied traditional astrology you'll 'pretty much' get a similar astrological answer within the range some 'framework' of which i am sure is based on speaking about emotions or feelings in other words generalizations that are open to whole slew of interpretations!!
I came to hear what you had to say about "Science and Astrology", not to hear about the quarrels you are having with some other people on youtube. I'd like to help a little here. Keep in mind that just because someone says that they represent a scientific way or they are a science person does not mean they are a scientist. There is a huge difference between people claiming to be scientific and the actual scientists. So, I just really hope someone doesn't give you the wrong idea about science
Yeah, too bad I messed up the p[ost. . . we were at war during those months. . . .however, you are right on with your Voice of Reason. Thanks for the post, much appreciated,
Hahah! Posted on another one of your videos. Again, I like the demeanor. Your hair is fine. XD And the fact you recognize that Astrology is not on "Scientific" grounds makes me surprised that people are still attacking you. I applaud you in a way! Would I be correct in assuming that these 'modern' astrologers seem to drift towards Tropical Astrology rather than Sidereal?
Hi, MH, Well there are many types of astrology, Persian, Chinese, Hindu, Sidereal etc. Tropical astrology is a symbolic language based on the seasonal changes. By watching the solar ingress into each solstice or equinox, we get an idea about the concept of the art. The Sun is much more conducive to growith in the Spring than in winter etc. . .
How I explain to people I know the legitimacy in astrology(both Eastern and Western:), is by simply guessing their sign, or a strangers, I must admit I'm getting good and I swear this is the key for all mysteries in our solar system(kingdom) and beyond
But science extends into all walks of life. For example, the reason the Greeks made amphitheaters the way they did is because they knew about acoustics.
BTW, love is caused by the release of endorphines from the brain.
If something is creative or not is a matter of opinion. Some think Pollock is creative and some think that he is just messy.
So the signs are arbitrarily defined dates, animals and "principles."
Reuvenybenisreal, Well apply your Greek reasoning to the seasonal changes and you have a great deal of astrological thought. Or, do you believe that choosing some forms of opinions rule out over other forms?
BTW, All language is based upon your last statement on arbitrarily defined situations. Or do you question the reason a "chair" is called a chair. . . a chair is an agreed upon symbol that we all recognized over a period of time..
i have a request/question..:333 umm..could you please explain exactly what a progressed natal chart is? i think its like a modern version of a birthchart...like a new one..does this mean you get all new traits? and if a birthchart provides insight to your destiny..that stays the same right? i have no idea lol..btw, im really curious..whats your zodiac sign? :):)
Once we have established the birth chart. We add one degree to the ascending sign for each year of life. So, if someone is born with 1 (one) degree Aries rising, ther are said to be under the influence of Mars. When they turn 29 years of age the new Ascendant will be Zero degree Taurus. They would no longer be under the influence of Mars but now be under the influence of Venus.
I find astrology spot on when I look at a sign and a person I know the tendencies are correct 100%of the time. person after person commenting on a sign follow some blogs they all talk the same lingo... I believe
I check it out id there a difference I know about western Astrology and Kabbalh.. Let me know I love to read checked out your web site it loks very good will be back to read there .. Nice to meet u ,
William Lilly's Christian Astrology is a foundational work. Written in 1645, it's still the best around. My new Project, Moment Of Truth, covers the basic traditional approach, good for beginners and great for intermediate and perfect as a teaching tool for professionals.
Actually astrology is a science because it's knowledge. It's just not natural science. Astrology can be related to philosophy too. Natural science has errors as well. It's normal for humans wanting to prove everything with mathematical principles.
Lilbao, Mode4rn astrology is about psychology, traditional astrology is about defining the process of life using principles that the moderns overlook.
It's more along the lines of fractal experience. Allof nature reflects upon itself. . . as humans, we refuse to recognize the patterns within ourselves as autonomy is so very important.
All fractals follow a basic pattern in nature and can be seen reflecting their patters from small crystals to galaxies.
Fractals are too irregular for geometry; and are seemingly infinite. They turn up in food, germs, plants, mountains and more. The basic design of a spiral can be seen in a Nautilus shell and reflected in the galactic spirals as well.
JStewartFan, I'd already told you more than once after you initially addressed me, that my first post wasn't to you. Each time you kept on trying to goad me into an argument. You've also done the same thing to someone else in another vid. Lie and backtrack all you want, but you had an axe to grind and wanted to argue. PERIOD.
See my 4th reply. I looked for support about claims (others, not YOU, made), which I addressed. There are two examples of this, one with chadow, one electriciansmate elsewhere. I'm asking nothing of you but for you to stop making accusations about me that are not supported by the facts here, and that I've repeatedly clarified. You keep coming back; I'm forced to defend my position that is incorrectly characterized. Let it go here and we are done!
To me, it's really a simple thing. Either you think astrology is valid or you don't. And whatever you think is fine. If you think it's BS, then you don't have to practice it.But I don't see the point of harassing those who do think there's something to it, demanding that they 'prove' it to you. Go focus on what you DO believe in, and stop trying to force everybody else to fall in line and agree with you.
I asked (easy) questions and u see what came back. Even after a few tries. We evaluate claims in the world by reason&evidence or take them on faith. The question one should ask themselves is "how do I know the claim is true"? If it is based on taking someone's word for it, or is it based on evidence? What is the quality of that evidence? What other explanations are there for the observed phenomena? Are the claims objectively verifiable or subjective? This is hardly "force".
Not sure what you're getting at. Yes, I also believe that if you're going to insist something is true from a scientific standpoint, that you had better be able to back it up with some kind of proof or evidence, so you're preaching to the choir on that one. But there are also, like you said, things that are definitely out of the realm of science and cannot be proven or disproven, it's just a matter of faith or liking the idea and wanting to believe in it.
For me personally it's not wishful thinking. Do I like astrology and think it's cool?Absolutely, but also, I have found it accurate as far as my own life experience. It has proved itself to me, in a sense. Which isn't me saying it's scientifically valid - like I said, I can't prove that. I'm saying I believe in it and it works for me, so I'm going with it. You feel differently about it,that's fine. You don't have to practice it. That doesn't give you the right to harass those who do, though.
You seem to think challenging unsubstantiated claims as harassment. From the description
>> This video is for the intelligent and courteous criticism, debate, and discussion of astrology.
Do I need to slather every comment with sugar before it gets the label of "courteous"?
You seem to argue that everyone who has some arbitrary "faith claim" should go unchallenged when bringing it up PUBLICLY. Among others I tried to get relevant responses rather than evasive ones, I gave up when snubbed.
No no. I prefer straight talk with sugarcoating. I also understand that this comment section was set aside for debate but also, just for people to speak their piece on the subject and leave it at that, not that everyone who comes in must go back and forth over this with others who don't agree indefinitely. At this point, I feel like you're essentially trying to make me debate this with you, which is pointless. Like I said, I don't believe in, or agree with, trying to push anything that
Not trying to debate you at all, I recognize you are free to believe whatever you want, on faith or evidence of whatever quality. I mistakenly thought you were responding to me specifically and am not trying to change your mind. My posts in here are trying to encourage critical thinking skills for people who may be misled by invalid, improper or no evidence in the face of claims that CAN be tested objectively. Astrology is incidental.
I can only repeat myself and say that I'm not pushing astrology as scientific fact or saying that anyone else should believe in or practice it, unless they want to. Having said that, I don't really think it's necessary for you to play critical thinker for other people when I'm sure they have the intellect and ability to read and think for themselves and make whatever choice they feel is best for them, one way or the other.
I'm not saying that you are, I'm trying to find some common ground for completion. But, I now have to respond in kind in that you also don't have to play "mother" to all those who can't tolerate rational inquiry. Should this only be a self-affirming astrology love fest?
You seem to be taking issue with someone being skeptical to claims made in here by asking "what's your evidence" as if it's some kind of moral crime. I'm not asking you to explain your faith.
I'm not playing mother and I think to say that anyone who doesn't agree with you can't handle a differing opinion is really just nonsense, in all honesty. My problem isn't debate or other opinions. My problem is when it's obvious that the two people in question don't agree and instead of agreeing to disagree, the other party keeps on beating them over the head with their views. To me, that reads like someone trying to force someone to change their opinion.
cont./ ..can't or hasn't been scientifically proven, as scientific fact. Again, I'm saying that on a personal level, I find it accurate and that it resonates for me. Now, if I were in here insisting that astrology is a science that can be definitely proven, you'd have a case here. But right now, we're in the realm of faith. And Yes, people have the right to believe in what they want faith-wise, without being harassed or challenged on it.
>> Yes, people have the right to believe in what they want faith-wise, without being harassed or challenged on it.
If that faith is a private belief that informs one's life personally, I fully agree. The issue comes when people on basis of their faith, publicly take it to those who don't share it as true, as a proscription on their behavior or charge others for it. When that occurs, I have no qualms challenging the basis of their claims and why one should believe them.
I'm not sure what you want me to say here, especially when I just said the same thing more than once, albeit in a more complicated manner, which was that I don't agree with anyone trying to push any of their personal beliefs as scientific fact unless they can prove via unbiased sources that it IS indeed scientific fact. Where we differ is on charging for it - I believe that if someone who believes in astrology goes and pays for a consultation and chart interpretation, that is their business.
I could say the same. You've essentially repeated yourself to me over and over when I undestood you completely the first time and the odd part is, on the key things, we actually agree here.
So I'm not sure exactly what it is you want or expect, here.
No, a few posts back you were still repeating yourself and playing Captain Crusader like it was your given duty and people aren't intelligent enough to think for themselves and come to their own opinions.
I assume a mixture of critical thinking skills of those who attend YouTube, some better and some worse than mine. Are you claiming everyone is equally skilled in critical thinking? For example, some still think the earth is flat! I really don't get it, I tried hard to end on a positive note and now you are resorting to labels like "Captain Crusader" and just taking another shot about what we already discussed. Should critical thinking EVER be encouraged? Who gets to and when?
Why are you automatically assuming that you have stronger critical thinking skills than everyone else and that they need YOU to inform and guide them? Rather presumptuous and arrogant on your part and insults their intelligence. And if people want to think the Earth is flat or just like the idea, that's one thing and they should be left alone to do so, it's their right - however, if they turn around and try to insist it's scientific fact, well, they had better be able to back it up.
>Why are you automatically assuming that you have stronger critical thinking skills than everyone else...
I don't. Do you even read what I write? I stated I assumed a mixture, some better and some worse than mine. You didn't answer my previous question, and I don't say they have no right to believe what they want, rather I would say their reasons fail with the application of some basic critical thinking. Google flat earth society, ok?
Again - the fact that you even feel that you had to come in and be the critical thinking voice of reason for others does say that you feel that, Yes they cannot do it for themselves and need you to. Answer what question? And the fact that people practice and believe in something that has no scientific evidence doesn't automatically mean they lack critical thinking skills, by default.The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.Again, people have the right to believe what they want, so let them.
U must mean don't question them, how can I NOT LET them? *sigh* It's like two ships passing in the night. I made no claims you ascribe to me in this recent post. I'm NOT saying what you think I am, it's that simple. Please read me more carefully. Critical thinking can be suspended in some *contexts* by otherwise very capable thinkers. (compartmentalization) My inquiry isn't about anything you've said regarding astrology, however you aren't the only one who has posted in this thread are you?
'Let' isn't the right word.You don't have any power over anybody nor they do not need your permission to believe what they believe or do what they want to do.And Yes, people have the right to their beliefs without you questioning them.Again, if they were demanding that astrology is a science and can be proven as such,that's different, but you are essentially trying to argue with people about what they believe in,which isn't something that affects you in any way and that they have every right to.
Chadow claims in here because of astrology, he can profitably predict the outcomes of gambling and stock trades which are quantifiable. He claimed to another "there are no losses". He can't seem to back up this astro based claim beyond his "word". HOW it works isn't even a question yet, THAT his claims are true are pending. These aren't in principle subjective claims, they are very quantifiable. Wanna defend that? I gave up since he snubbed my questions. Now u come along missing the boat.
I'm not Chadow. He seems nice, and I'm definitely glad he made astrology vids, but not everyone who practices astrology sees everything the same way, frankly. So you essentially want me to sit here and argue and defend views that are not my own? When I commented, I wasn't addressing you or anybody else specifically. As I said, I was offering my two cents on the video itself, which is about astrology skeptics. You can't miss what you weren't trying to catch in the first place.
You really don't get it, I'm NOT addressing YOU for exactly that reason, not EVERYONE sees astrology the same way and was showing where we prob agree. You keep thinking I am addressing YOU when I don't and didn't have any desire to address you further except to try and correct your incorrect assertions about my meaning. I already said I made a mistake about the target of your initial post and tried to disengage at that point, yet you suggest I'm brow beating? *sigh*
Actually, you did address me. You can backpedal and claim you didn't and that your intentions weren't to try and start an argument all you want, but you and I both know that if I were addressing you, I would've replied directly to your post and/or referred to you by name. You also did the same thing to another poster in another astrology vid. You just want to argue and bully someone who believes in astrology.
I don't refer to people by name, and many times people post "replies" without using "reply", which is beyond me. YT's thread management is poor to be generous, and often these relationships don't show up until later. I think it's pretty clear I tried to correct my mistake, but you then levied new assertions on me which I didn't make. I'll let the record, rather than your reinterpretation of it, speak for itself.
Not everyone replying in every vid who happens to say they believe in astrology is replying to you but somehow forgetting to hit reply or refer to you by name. That's absolutely asinine and you know it.Remember, I'm not the only one you've done this to, and even after I told you I wasn't addressing you with my first comment, you kept on, and about an hour ago you even tried to argue with me again, this time with Chadow's statement, basically pinning it on me and demanding that I defend it.
My very first comment, was explaining how I wasn't "forcing" anyone to agree with me, but asking questions. I admittedly mistook your initial "don't force" comment as directed at me, and subsequently tried to disengage as I mentioned and you still hang on. I don't hate astrology, or any personal divination tool for that matter. Sadly, you seem to feel persecuted. I take issue with those claims such as chadow made and tried to explain the approach I used as not "force".
I still say YouTube ate the first part of that exchange and that your approach was much less mellow and diplomatic than that. But, I can't prove it and it is possible I'm remembering things wrong.But again, like I said, if I were addressing you, I would've hit reply just like I have for the other 90 percent of this exchange, and were that somehow not possible, I would have referred to you by name. And again, you also bumrushed another person this same way in another vid on the same subject.
I have not lost a single post, before I make more, I verify my previous posts "take".
Now it's "bumrushed", all I asked was what does "It works" mean? That's hardly an attack. C'mon, you are really reaching now. Let's recount, I'm a "brow beater", "bum rusher", "back peddler", "astrology hater", um, what else, oh "hissyfitter", nice. I just asked objective questions to see how people support claims they make. You aren't one of those making those claims, so I'm not asking you.
I remembered wrong then, but at any rate you have spent the majority of this exchange trying to goad me into arguing something that I never contested in the first place, even after I told you that and said more than once that I was not talking to you in my initial post. You also pulled the same thing on someone else in another one of Chadow's vids. You're baiting because you have an astrological axe to grind and want to argue, but when called on it you backtrack and claim it was an error.
All those adjectives are a fitting description for someone who is adamant about how useless they think a subject is, but hangs around in the comment sections of vids about that same subject for months on end; then rushes anyone who says they like the subject and plays stupid later and says they didn't know they weren't talking to you, even after they told you they weren't MORE THAN ONCE; and proceeds to make nasty comments about the thinking skills and comprehension of those who don't agree.
There's no way that two people somehow forgot how to reply directly to posts (or specify via name) on YouTube. Especially after one of them tells you more than once that they weren't talking to you but replying to the comments in the VIDEO, yet you still continue trying to pull them into an argument with you on the subject matter. And you've apparently been in both vids long term as well, so you definitely have an axe to grind or a personal agenda you're pushing where astrology is concerned.
And disengaging would be agreeing to disagree, not trying to make me defend someone else's opinion on the subject and continuing to address the other party. And you were definitely brow-beating - you milked that 'prove it' thing until you couldn't anymore then just resorted to saying their was something wrong with everyone's thinking skills because they don't agree with you. If that's not browbeating, I don't know what is.
All this is what you wrongly asserted about me, thankfully any reader can scroll back and see how it actually went. There isn't enough room to refute everything because it keeps piling up. So, I'll refer any readers to the record.
No, they will see all the games you played and probably not realize that YT ate the first few comments of this exchange. I'm not wrong about you. How else do you explain someone hanging around in vids about a topic they hate for long periods of time, trying to start an argument with whoever comes in and believes in the subject matter, especially when they didn't approach you first to begin with and were just expressing their own opinion?
Oh, and on the "making you defend someone elses opinion" was an attempt to show you where we probably agreed, that objective claims about predicting stock / gambling outcomes is verifiable and he attributes this claimed skill to astrology. No, I didn't expect you to actually defend it. I actually thought you might agree with me based on your "astro isn't science but faith"-like position, especially given your comment about Horary Astrology. Oh well.
No it wasn't. You wanted to argue with Chadow who, smartly, refuses to engage you on it anymore, so you tried to pin his words on me as though everyone into astrology thinks the same, and challenged me once again to prove astrology. Yes, you actually expected me to defend it as though all astrologers think the same and follow all the same schools of thought. Which shows your ignorance on the subject, because astrologers almost never agree on ANYthing.
I said that very early on, when trying to disengage with you (search "snubbed"). Pin? I was trying to find our common grnd, yet you call me a liar. Wow, I hope people will take the time to read this and see the actual events, provided YT orders it as entered, which isn't always the case sadly. I'm not backpedaling, I'm replying to your accusations since my 1st disengagement attempt. Putting words in my mouth doesn't change what I said. For me being so unworthy, you can't seem to let it go.
Early on you did NOT try to disengage- the majority of that time was spent with me repeating myself that I don't think astrology is a science and wondering what your problem was.And Yes, almost two hours ago you brought up Chadow's views and demanded that I defend them, as if they were my own, so pin is accurate.And, I told you hours before that we agreed on astrology not being scientifically proven.Long before you did, and more than once.You weren't trying to prove what was already established.
What you say makes no sense. I don't hold those views, my views are consistent. The record shows that. You kept putting incorrect words in my mouth and I was compelled to correct them. I brought up chadow again because your misunderstanding kept swinging around, so I tried to refocus on where we could get back on track, hopefully find common ground and stop. But, you see fit to keep this going and I'll keep responding until you stop inventing positions I don't hold.
What I said made perfect sense. You are consistent in your hatred of astrology, but far from it where your actions (more like tactics) are concerned. You have no problem doing things to intentionally antagonize people then backtracking and saying it was error, or saying things happened in an order that they didn't and basically outright lying if it suits your purposes.Like I said, there was no need for you to establish common ground when I had done it already hours before. You wanted to bait.
>>.Like I said, there was no need for you to establish common ground when I had done it already hours before. You wanted to bait
Why would I say this on my 8th response to you? (were at well over 25 each)
8 - I still want and expect nothing.
I can only point to the evidence here, and what comes straight from my mouth, I don't hate astrology or any tool or divination. As I said in my 4th reply - astrology is incedental.
And again, I have absolutely no interest in you personally. What I AM doing right now, is defending myself and repeating how the events actually occurred, because you're backtracking, rewriting history,trying to play clean up and essentially, saying that I'm lying when I'm definitely not. Being made out to be a liar would annoy anyone.
So you can see why I am annoyed. Playing "I know you are but what am I" game doesn't work with adults, sorry.
It you have accused me of hating astrology, bumrushing, hissyfiting, trying to pin chadow's claims on you, thinking all astrologers are the same, lying and such, when I happily admit I'm holding none of those positions or behaviors. The record stands, just let it speak. I have no problem with you holding your "astrology is not science" position, nor claim you think otherwise.
No, adults don't resort to games and sleazy tactics. You can try and pin your own behavior on me if you like, but you and I both know you're lying. You do hate astrology - you've been on a rage in this man's astrology videos, rushing to jump on anyone who has anything positive to say on the subject, trying to pin Chadow's thoughts on me and demand I defend them even after I've said at least a dozen times that I don't share those views. I don't care what you say, your actions tell the tale.
>> I don't care what you say, your actions tell the tale.
This sums up the essence of this whole thread. The 1st post I mistook as directed at me. Thread reply's aren't put into the reply structure immediately by YT, and I was the most recent poster in a month.
The following are highlights from my 1st 9 replies to your responses. By reply 3, I was simply defending against accusations trying to clarify. It continues even now, but as you say, you don't care what I say. Here:
I think YT actively prevents quotes, I cannot paste them in, despite being short. This is frustrating as you might imagine. I'll try after this takes.
9 - I tried hard to end on a positive note and now you are resorting to labels like "Captain Crusader"
I've been trying to defend against these "I don't care what you say" accusations now for 21 more replies to you, and you sometimes posted 2 for my 1, none of those had me taking issue with your astrology position. That doesn't count those on the other vid "feebles foibles" (which were really part and referenced this thread actually) I didn't know which was what
It wasn't about you proving to me where we agreed, especially since I had already said before you did, repeatedly, hours ago, that we both agreed that astrology can't be scientifically proven. Right now you're trying to do a clean-up job and twist things you said and did around. Simple as that.
And..I'm the most recent person who posted in this thread who happened to say they believed in astrology which made you want to argue. I understood you fine the first time, nothing you said was that complex. Essentially, you're pretending to be in here under the guise of scientific truth - only,when you get that, when people say that astrology isn't a science, you don't stop there. You still want to press the issue because really you feel no one should believe in astrology because YOU don't.
When you first posted, I thought you were addressing me specifically. If I thought you were not addressing me, I wouldn't have bothered. Prior claims were made in this thread regarding astro & stocks/gambling outcomes by chadow. Read back maybe you will see my comments there. When I hear amazng truth claims I ask for objective evidence, because I don't want to be misled if possible. That says nothing about one's "right" to faith beliefs which for me is universal.
If I were addressing you specifically, I would've hit 'reply'. Did the individual you're trying to browbeat in the other thread now, address you specifically or reply directly to your comments? And again, you keep saying one thing and doing another, because when I told you myself that I don't consider astrology a science, you kept on insisting I prove it, as though I'd said the opposite before finally implying that those believe anyway lack critical thinking skills.
"Not trying to debate you at all, I recognize you are free to believe whatever you want, on faith or evidence of whatever quality. I mistakenly thought you were responding to me specifically and am not trying to change your mind."
I didn't ask you for proof. I explained my motivations regarding chadow's gambling claims about astrology and you went back at me and we are still going following me "the brow beater" to another thread no less! lol
Just because you bactracked and said you weren't trying to debate, that doesn't null and void your first INITIAL comment to me, which was you challenging me to prove astrology. Again, went went back and forth several times with you insisting that I prove astrology to you which made me have to keep reminding you that I never said astrology was scientifically valid in the first place.Then about an hour ago you tried to pin Chadow's statements on me and demanded again that I prove astrology to you.
And I didn't follow you over to that vid, let's get this straight. I subscribed to Chadow a day ago and was actually watching multiple vids he did at that time. I was surprised to go in another one and see you pulling the same crap on another person that you did on me and couldn't pass up the opportunity to comment on it. But I don't follow people around, and certainly not you. Frankly, you're not interesting enough.
So basically, I'm saying I believe in astrology, absolutely, but there's no way in hell I'd try to present it as scientific fact, and I'm not on board with anyone who does. At the same time, that doesn't mean that we don't have the right to believe in it. If it's not for you, then fine, but I don't see what trying to force everyone else to go along with you on it does. People have a right to believe what they want to believe. Hopefully I'm making sense, here.
Gambling predictions? Sounds like Horary Astrology and I'm really not into that, and I also haven't read the entire exchange of words in here. What I am saying is, people have a right to believe in whatever they want, but when it comes down to the area of science, if you're going to push something as scientific fact, you have better be able to prove it. You didn't bring up rights, but I did. Critical thinking and epistemology is irrelevant.
You should read what is said here, and how it sound questions are evaded.
The point of my comment was about critical thinking, yours was about rights. If you just want to give opinions that's fine with me, I was trying to actually respond to your statement.
That is their opinion,they're entitled to it. I don't have to read the exchange, I was not commenting on any exchanges here in the first place. I'm offering up my own thoughts on the video. I did respond to your statement, which really wasn't so much about critical thinking as simply saying you don't agree that astrology is scientific fact. Which is fine, because I'm not pushing that theory in the first place myself. I'm going with what resonates with me. If it doesn't for you, find what does.
If it isn't science, and just "principles", what principles are there that can't be tested scientifically? How do you know they are valid? (Anecdote isn't reliable validation) If you dig into them, those principles may involve scientific claims. Why planets and not bird droppings or crushed peanuts for example? If you make a statement about someone, how do you objectively test whether that statement couldn't be made (better) via some other (less tangential) technique?
Astrology isn't a quantifiable discipline, m=no science. I used that word to have fun with my audience. Jon, I actually make a lot of money in the money market and base all of my moves both by selling and buying stock. . . all with astrology. What do I care if you believe what I do or not? Grab your hair and pull. . . how would I know how you feel?
You would have a pretty decent idea by pulling your own and utilizing our similarities as typical humans to map that sensation to me (theory of mind).
YOU are the one that came on YT and made claims about Astro, I just asked questions, which you didn't answer. As for your discretionary stock picking (fwiw, money market is commercial paper&repos not stock), it hardly demonstrates astrology's validity unless it can be replicated in a controlled way, otherwise it is just self serving anecdote.
Jon, Yes, I did, and I came on YT to attract like minded people who want to learn what I know. You see, the situation is easily replicated as I do this daily regardless of the "official name" the transactions may have. Replication, yes, often yes, exciting, yes for me and many clients I make the calls for. You don't know it, but it works if you use the proper methods and not the rubbish that's called astrology out there today.
Sounds like a veiled commercial for some kind of subscription newsletter or website. So far, nobody published on Wall Street using Astro "timing" has had any audited results that are better than statistical norms. (i.e. no real edge)
Substituting this stuff instead of answers to my straightforward questions is rather telling though.
There are astrologers who can and there are astrologers who can't. Simple analogy, I do what I do and I do it well. . . this is a well known fact in my circle.
As far as showing audited results. . . get real.
Who wants to?
There is NO answer to your straightforward questions. None whatsoever. Astrology can't be answered or accounted for in 500 hundred words or less. Neither can syntactical expression.
If astrology is to have any objective validity, it shouldn't depend on a particular "expert" to demonstrate it works. Math, physics, medicine, engineering etc, all work. There are individuals who excel, but to demonstrate the principles and efficacy of the knowledge requires no "super" practitioner. You are free to make as many 500 chunk posts (addressing whatever detail is needed) as you wish or a video. Answering my questions don't need long equivocations, just basic RELEVANT answers.
Wow, you did a great job defending astrology. You rock.
VenusAsABoyFilms 2 months ago
hi @VenusAsABoyFilms thanks
chadow7231 2 months ago
many people claim astrology to be scientificaly proven.... don't blame us for your cohorts pretending you are not a religion.
TAPriceCTR 3 months ago
Hi @TAPriceCTR I see, So, you are an "us." Tell you what, you're probably right. And may I add, being able to read the universe's messages is really as better than a religion without the dogma or guilt,
chadow7231 3 months ago
@chadow7231 everyone believes their beliefs are better than everyone elses... if you thought someone elses was better you would switch to theirs.
TAPriceCTR 3 months ago
Hi @TAPriceCTR . . .yes, what you say is true, however, if you are implying astrology is a belief, you are sadly mistaken. That's like saying that music is a belief. . .do you believe in music?
chadow7231 3 months ago
@chadow7231
so what you are saying is that astrology is merely soothing to the mind and does not actualy have anything to do with truth?
TAPriceCTR 3 months ago
Hi @TAPriceCTR Nice spinoff. . . no, that's not what I said. W.D. Gann was quite a proponent for astrology, as was J.P. Morgan. . . only the uneducated in the field would close his eyes to the obvious. . .
chadow7231 3 months ago
@chadow7231 how is that a spin? you compared astrology to music which is nothing but pleasant art. the creator or listener can give it meaning but music in and of itself is meaningless. noones life is controled by music.
TAPriceCTR 3 months ago
Hi @TAPriceCTR and no one's life is "controlled" by Astrology. Like music, only people trained to recognize the language of the li'l dots on paper can make it "work."
chadow7231 3 months ago
@chadow7231
however the musical score will read the same whether an amateur, profesional, or computer is reading it. with astrology the stars do not change, but the alleged significance does.
TAPriceCTR 3 months ago
hi @TAPriceCTR I think the word "however" is an abstract in its own right. As a musician who also taught music, I cannot agree on your premise. I can say the same about an astrology chart - it "will read the same whether an amateur, professional, or computer is reading it."
chadow7231 3 months ago
continued: Although the stars do not change, the planets (of which we are more interested) do change and have various significance by the nature of their position as the Sun determines the seasonal changes in the upper and lower latitudes on this planet.
chadow7231 3 months ago
@chadow7231 you can say it will read the same regardless of who or what reads the stars but that is pattently false. give the same information to 10 different astrologers and you get 10 different results.
there is a measured, calculable, verifiable, scientific causality to how the angle of the earth relative to the location of the sun to determines the seasons. I can simulate the effect with a heat lamp and a piece of sheet metal. you can not simulate how these psychic rocks impose their will.
TAPriceCTR 3 months ago
hi @TAPriceCTR well, I guess you told me !!! However, what you are stating is only partially accurate - and only describes, as far as the modern-day astrologer proponents go, the current suppositions that all astrologers are alike. Assemble 10 different Traditional Astrologers and you will receive the same answer to any question or situation accurately and succinctly. What you are stating above is your lack of understanding about the actual situation concerning astrology's practitioners.
chadow7231 3 months ago
Respond to this video... continued: I am happy that you can duplicate earth's causal seasonal activity with heat lamps and strips of sheet metal. . . quite a feat in my world! And, you are correct, you cannot simulate the electro-magnetic field that the solar system performs with your lamps and metalic strips. I have no idea why you refer to the planets as "psychic rocks," planetary activity has a rhythm and recurring cycles that are easily observed.
chadow7231 3 months ago
@chadow7231 Well, I guess you have never seen anyone dance to any music, , , that is a form of control.
chadow7231 3 months ago
Fire-Tetrahadron-Light-Nitrogen/Air-Octahadron-Gas-Oxygen/Water-Icosohadron-Liquid-Hidrogen/Earth-Hexahadron-Solid-Carbon
andromr1969 4 months ago
There are 4 Element in this universe..What is 4 Sigma..there are 6 hour quarter of the day...X 4 is 24 hour for 1 day..Dayllight and Night..Sun and Moon..Yang and Ying..
andromr1969 6 months ago
@andromr1969 There are not 4 elements in fact there are 118
MrTakers168 4 months ago
Time is x..this is symbol of HALION IO ION EON Electron and Proton..It is also mean 6..The Number of Sigma..6666 is XXXX or WWWW is the same mening..It is Taurat,Zabur,Injil and Quran...4 Sigma
andromr1969 6 months ago
Connection between Sol/Sel Batteries is a Curren Karan or Quran..Wave,Stream,Flow..AlQuranius..
andromr1969 6 months ago
And WWWW is Aquarius bulb..light the life with Idea
andromr1969 6 months ago
Imagine Leo- and Cancer + is a Sel or Sol...
andromr1969 6 months ago
Ohrs
andromr1969 6 months ago
Alfa & Omega is between Cancer&Leo..The Number 6
andromr1969 6 months ago
The Cardinal have two face..12,3,6,9..mean The Ending point of Capricorn=12,Aries=3,Cancer=6,Libra=9..and the Beginning of Aquarius=12,Taurus=3,Leo=6,Scorpio=9..
andromr1969 6 months ago
@andromr1969 explain more
chadow723 6 months ago
Flying Saucer is look like eye...Lost in Space..Danger..Danger..this is not compute...hahaha
andromr1969 6 months ago
@andromr1969 Billy Mumy and I are friends. . .taught him music when he was Will Rogers. . . nice guy
chadow723 6 months ago
Why is HALIOS=(ALION) or A LION(LEO) have 2 different colour of eye..one blue and one black?ALION is ALIEN...That is the Sign of EYE ⊙ if you see that it is the (i) or the symbol of saucer or Eye...
andromr1969 6 months ago
@andromr1969 oh
chadow723 6 months ago
Leo to Aquarius is 180°...that 1 eye..I On..is the 6 sign and the New beginning of the New era is the 7 sign...
andromr1969 6 months ago
RA is about ⊕⊗⊙ Eye..or i mean X= the number 10 or ion..alpha&omega is 360° but 1 eye mean half way like 180° that mean from the constellation of Leo(Pyramid)
andromr1969 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
A Pyramid is like A prism can be used to break light up into its constituent spectral colors (the colors of the rainbow). Prisms can also be used to reflect light, or to split light into components with different polarizations,So that why Olympic London on 2012 the Thema is about 1 eyes..mean Ra..or Halios..the IO..i On...Aeon...or i on..the focus..
andromr1969 6 months ago
Hi@chadow723...Pyramid is like A prism can be used to break light up into its constituent spectral colors (the colors of the rainbow). Prisms can also be used to reflect light, or to split light into components with different polarizations..So that why 2012 you will see the Olimpic London thema is about 1 eyes...The Halios...Io..Ion..Aon..
andromr1969 6 months ago
Astronomy&Astrology is the same meaning..just the word of Onomy when including the connecting vowel -o-that is commonly used in connecting two elements of Greek origin) a system of rules, laws, or knowledge about a body of a particular field; distribution, arrangement, management and Ology is the meaning of Logica..both are in Union..
andromr1969 6 months ago
hi @andromr1969 , Yes thank you for this. . .
chadow723 6 months ago
@andromr1969 Thanks, , ,I agree
chadow723 6 months ago
Astronomy=Pisces,Astrology=Aries....Astronomy=Ages Of Capricorn will enter Sagittarius(Galactic Center).Astrology=Ages Of Aquarius..will enter Capricorn(Galactic Center) .
andromr1969 6 months ago
hi @andromr1969 good call, one sidereal and the other the symbolic tropical. . .
chadow723 6 months ago
@andromr1969 thanks again
chadow723 6 months ago
Why Astrology not change for say the first House now is rule by Jupiter and the first house own by Pisces and the Sign of Pisces now is the Sign of Aries like this ϒ...Peace..
andromr1969 6 months ago
hi @andromr1969, well, there you have it symbolic structure and physical structure. . .both are in union so I guess I'll stay with the symbolic side of the coin and let Pisces be what it is when needed as a Pisces signature.
chadow723 6 months ago
Yes astrology is different then astronomy and science..but Astrology said when 21 March every year the Sun is entering the Aries Zodiac but in Astronomy Science try to look use a telescope or google Sky Map it show 21 March the Sun is still at Pisces..different 30º
andromr1969 6 months ago
hi @andromr1969 that's true. . . symbols and reflections
chadow723 6 months ago
@andromr1969 a difference of 24+ degrees if you will
chadow723 6 months ago
This video made me subscribe...
LeeFelo 1 year ago
he stated "We don't claim that the planets influence a vibe or ANYTHING!" Well then you better look up the defination of Astrologer! Because the defination clearly shows a belief in the influence of human affairs from celestial objects
near the end of this video he states its based a series of principles (i assume that we should apply to our life)
Well, most principles can be applied to our lives and doesn't make any difference where the stars or planets were at a certain time.
Supernaut617 1 year ago
Comment removed
Supernaut617 1 year ago
u r definitely right in saying this crap has nothing to do with science
u r definitely right in saying that if u ask 10 different people a question all who have studied traditional astrology you'll 'pretty much' get a similar astrological answer within the range some 'framework' of which i am sure is based on speaking about emotions or feelings in other words generalizations that are open to whole slew of interpretations!!
Supernaut617 1 year ago 2
I came to hear what you had to say about "Science and Astrology", not to hear about the quarrels you are having with some other people on youtube. I'd like to help a little here. Keep in mind that just because someone says that they represent a scientific way or they are a science person does not mean they are a scientist. There is a huge difference between people claiming to be scientific and the actual scientists. So, I just really hope someone doesn't give you the wrong idea about science
Fand421 1 year ago
@Fand421
Yeah, too bad I messed up the p[ost. . . we were at war during those months. . . .however, you are right on with your Voice of Reason. Thanks for the post, much appreciated,
chadow723 1 year ago
Well said.
borquetoe 1 year ago
so i am guessing you don't believe in the horoscope since it is based on the individual
maximusTLP 1 year ago
Hahah! Posted on another one of your videos. Again, I like the demeanor. Your hair is fine. XD And the fact you recognize that Astrology is not on "Scientific" grounds makes me surprised that people are still attacking you. I applaud you in a way! Would I be correct in assuming that these 'modern' astrologers seem to drift towards Tropical Astrology rather than Sidereal?
metallhead43v3R 1 year ago
@metallhead43v3R
Hi, MH, Well there are many types of astrology, Persian, Chinese, Hindu, Sidereal etc. Tropical astrology is a symbolic language based on the seasonal changes. By watching the solar ingress into each solstice or equinox, we get an idea about the concept of the art. The Sun is much more conducive to growith in the Spring than in winter etc. . .
chadow723 1 year ago
yes my friend...let them be as they are astrology works inside them...the both are necessary I guess..
Gelameable 1 year ago
@Gelameable True indeed, many parts to the system but we are still within it.
chadow723 1 year ago
I really like you.. I knew you were a Leo lol
How I explain to people I know the legitimacy in astrology(both Eastern and Western:), is by simply guessing their sign, or a strangers, I must admit I'm getting good and I swear this is the key for all mysteries in our solar system(kingdom) and beyond
MercurysWand 1 year ago
@MercurysWand
Yupp, we are all facets of "The One. . . "
chadow723 1 year ago
Ah,loved your talks.thanks
Mike3gdc 1 year ago
But science extends into all walks of life. For example, the reason the Greeks made amphitheaters the way they did is because they knew about acoustics.
BTW, love is caused by the release of endorphines from the brain.
If something is creative or not is a matter of opinion. Some think Pollock is creative and some think that he is just messy.
So the signs are arbitrarily defined dates, animals and "principles."
ReuvenYisrael 1 year ago
Reuvenybenisreal, Well apply your Greek reasoning to the seasonal changes and you have a great deal of astrological thought. Or, do you believe that choosing some forms of opinions rule out over other forms?
BTW, All language is based upon your last statement on arbitrarily defined situations. Or do you question the reason a "chair" is called a chair. . . a chair is an agreed upon symbol that we all recognized over a period of time..
chadow723 1 year ago
You rule! chadow723 your the man :) Keep up the good work.
gween 1 year ago
i have a request/question..:333 umm..could you please explain exactly what a progressed natal chart is? i think its like a modern version of a birthchart...like a new one..does this mean you get all new traits? and if a birthchart provides insight to your destiny..that stays the same right? i have no idea lol..btw, im really curious..whats your zodiac sign? :):)
aquafinafresh 2 years ago
Once we have established the birth chart. We add one degree to the ascending sign for each year of life. So, if someone is born with 1 (one) degree Aries rising, ther are said to be under the influence of Mars. When they turn 29 years of age the new Ascendant will be Zero degree Taurus. They would no longer be under the influence of Mars but now be under the influence of Venus.
I'm aq Leo
chadow723 1 year ago
I find astrology spot on when I look at a sign and a person I know the tendencies are correct 100%of the time. person after person commenting on a sign follow some blogs they all talk the same lingo... I believe
CharUSAIdaho 2 years ago
Hi CharUSA,
You may believe but if you study TRADITIONAL ASTROLOGY and not today's psychology og astrology, you will come to KNOW. . .a powerful tool indeed!
Thnx for the post
chadow723 2 years ago
I check it out id there a difference I know about western Astrology and Kabbalh.. Let me know I love to read checked out your web site it loks very good will be back to read there .. Nice to meet u ,
CharUSAIdaho 2 years ago
Hi CharUSA, My pleasure as well.
William Lilly's Christian Astrology is a foundational work. Written in 1645, it's still the best around. My new Project, Moment Of Truth, covers the basic traditional approach, good for beginners and great for intermediate and perfect as a teaching tool for professionals.
chadow723 2 years ago
Actually astrology is a science because it's knowledge. It's just not natural science. Astrology can be related to philosophy too. Natural science has errors as well. It's normal for humans wanting to prove everything with mathematical principles.
IiIbao 2 years ago
Hi lilbao, Well, this is a simplistic comment, one I like. . . :-)
But, if we want mathematical principles involved, the stock market provides a great example.
chadow723 2 years ago
And perhaps astrology and other occult practices like astrology have metaphysical roots. =)
IiIbao 2 years ago
Lilbao,
Actually, astrology isn't all that metaphysical. . . there are certain rules to follow which makes it more of a discipline than a psychic experience.
chadow723 2 years ago
I see. I have another question. Can you tell me the what traditional astrology can be used for that modern astrology can't?
IiIbao 2 years ago
Lilbao, Mode4rn astrology is about psychology, traditional astrology is about defining the process of life using principles that the moderns overlook.
chadow723 1 year ago
Is there any way to chat off line...on private email then I can give you a little more detail.
ninety2angel 2 years ago
Ninety, a lot of people contact ne through the YouTube home page for Chadow723
chadow723 2 years ago
I am writing a fantasy book and am discussing/describing 'star reading' could you help me with a basic overview/description?
ninety2angel 2 years ago
Angel, you'll have to be more specific
chadow723 2 years ago
I think it's possible to link science to astrology, I'm just not smart enough to do it. Behavioral genetics, perhaps?
eroshiyda 2 years ago
Hi eroshiyda,,
It's more along the lines of fractal experience. Allof nature reflects upon itself. . . as humans, we refuse to recognize the patterns within ourselves as autonomy is so very important.
chadow723 2 years ago
I see your point.What do you mean by "fractal experience"?
eroshiyda 2 years ago
Hi eroshiyda,
All fractals follow a basic pattern in nature and can be seen reflecting their patters from small crystals to galaxies.
Fractals are too irregular for geometry; and are seemingly infinite. They turn up in food, germs, plants, mountains and more. The basic design of a spiral can be seen in a Nautilus shell and reflected in the galactic spirals as well.
All energy reflects itself. . . simple as that
chadow723 2 years ago
Ah, yes. I didn't know they had a name for it. Thank you for sharing. ^-^
eroshiyda 2 years ago
very good : )
spikkel70 2 years ago
Oseeupee, can't answer you on that. . .
you'll have to do your own research
chadow723 2 years ago
JStewartFan, I'd already told you more than once after you initially addressed me, that my first post wasn't to you. Each time you kept on trying to goad me into an argument. You've also done the same thing to someone else in another vid. Lie and backtrack all you want, but you had an axe to grind and wanted to argue. PERIOD.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
See my 4th reply. I looked for support about claims (others, not YOU, made), which I addressed. There are two examples of this, one with chadow, one electriciansmate elsewhere. I'm asking nothing of you but for you to stop making accusations about me that are not supported by the facts here, and that I've repeatedly clarified. You keep coming back; I'm forced to defend my position that is incorrectly characterized. Let it go here and we are done!
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Frankly, I'm sick of going over this with you and all your lying and game-playing is not working for me, so.
I'm going to do what everyone else here did : leave you alone, to harass the next random passerby who says they think astrology is super-great.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
To me, it's really a simple thing. Either you think astrology is valid or you don't. And whatever you think is fine. If you think it's BS, then you don't have to practice it.But I don't see the point of harassing those who do think there's something to it, demanding that they 'prove' it to you. Go focus on what you DO believe in, and stop trying to force everybody else to fall in line and agree with you.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
I asked (easy) questions and u see what came back. Even after a few tries. We evaluate claims in the world by reason&evidence or take them on faith. The question one should ask themselves is "how do I know the claim is true"? If it is based on taking someone's word for it, or is it based on evidence? What is the quality of that evidence? What other explanations are there for the observed phenomena? Are the claims objectively verifiable or subjective? This is hardly "force".
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Not sure what you're getting at. Yes, I also believe that if you're going to insist something is true from a scientific standpoint, that you had better be able to back it up with some kind of proof or evidence, so you're preaching to the choir on that one. But there are also, like you said, things that are definitely out of the realm of science and cannot be proven or disproven, it's just a matter of faith or liking the idea and wanting to believe in it.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
That's fine, but wishful thinking doesn't make something true.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
For me personally it's not wishful thinking. Do I like astrology and think it's cool?Absolutely, but also, I have found it accurate as far as my own life experience. It has proved itself to me, in a sense. Which isn't me saying it's scientifically valid - like I said, I can't prove that. I'm saying I believe in it and it works for me, so I'm going with it. You feel differently about it,that's fine. You don't have to practice it. That doesn't give you the right to harass those who do, though.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
You seem to think challenging unsubstantiated claims as harassment. From the description
>> This video is for the intelligent and courteous criticism, debate, and discussion of astrology.
Do I need to slather every comment with sugar before it gets the label of "courteous"?
You seem to argue that everyone who has some arbitrary "faith claim" should go unchallenged when bringing it up PUBLICLY. Among others I tried to get relevant responses rather than evasive ones, I gave up when snubbed.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
No no. I prefer straight talk with sugarcoating. I also understand that this comment section was set aside for debate but also, just for people to speak their piece on the subject and leave it at that, not that everyone who comes in must go back and forth over this with others who don't agree indefinitely. At this point, I feel like you're essentially trying to make me debate this with you, which is pointless. Like I said, I don't believe in, or agree with, trying to push anything that
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
Not trying to debate you at all, I recognize you are free to believe whatever you want, on faith or evidence of whatever quality. I mistakenly thought you were responding to me specifically and am not trying to change your mind. My posts in here are trying to encourage critical thinking skills for people who may be misled by invalid, improper or no evidence in the face of claims that CAN be tested objectively. Astrology is incidental.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I can only repeat myself and say that I'm not pushing astrology as scientific fact or saying that anyone else should believe in or practice it, unless they want to. Having said that, I don't really think it's necessary for you to play critical thinker for other people when I'm sure they have the intellect and ability to read and think for themselves and make whatever choice they feel is best for them, one way or the other.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
I'm not saying that you are, I'm trying to find some common ground for completion. But, I now have to respond in kind in that you also don't have to play "mother" to all those who can't tolerate rational inquiry. Should this only be a self-affirming astrology love fest?
You seem to be taking issue with someone being skeptical to claims made in here by asking "what's your evidence" as if it's some kind of moral crime. I'm not asking you to explain your faith.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I'm not playing mother and I think to say that anyone who doesn't agree with you can't handle a differing opinion is really just nonsense, in all honesty. My problem isn't debate or other opinions. My problem is when it's obvious that the two people in question don't agree and instead of agreeing to disagree, the other party keeps on beating them over the head with their views. To me, that reads like someone trying to force someone to change their opinion.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
cont./ ..can't or hasn't been scientifically proven, as scientific fact. Again, I'm saying that on a personal level, I find it accurate and that it resonates for me. Now, if I were in here insisting that astrology is a science that can be definitely proven, you'd have a case here. But right now, we're in the realm of faith. And Yes, people have the right to believe in what they want faith-wise, without being harassed or challenged on it.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
>> Yes, people have the right to believe in what they want faith-wise, without being harassed or challenged on it.
If that faith is a private belief that informs one's life personally, I fully agree. The issue comes when people on basis of their faith, publicly take it to those who don't share it as true, as a proscription on their behavior or charge others for it. When that occurs, I have no qualms challenging the basis of their claims and why one should believe them.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I'm not sure what you want me to say here, especially when I just said the same thing more than once, albeit in a more complicated manner, which was that I don't agree with anyone trying to push any of their personal beliefs as scientific fact unless they can prove via unbiased sources that it IS indeed scientific fact. Where we differ is on charging for it - I believe that if someone who believes in astrology goes and pays for a consultation and chart interpretation, that is their business.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
> I believe that if someone who believes in astrology goes and pays for a consultation and chart interpretation, that is their business.
Your point was already made. I'll highlight this last bit so you know without I doubt I heard you, k?
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I could say the same. You've essentially repeated yourself to me over and over when I undestood you completely the first time and the odd part is, on the key things, we actually agree here.
So I'm not sure exactly what it is you want or expect, here.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
Nothing actually, as of a few posts ago, I thought we were wrapped up.
I still want and expect nothing.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
No, a few posts back you were still repeating yourself and playing Captain Crusader like it was your given duty and people aren't intelligent enough to think for themselves and come to their own opinions.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
I assume a mixture of critical thinking skills of those who attend YouTube, some better and some worse than mine. Are you claiming everyone is equally skilled in critical thinking? For example, some still think the earth is flat! I really don't get it, I tried hard to end on a positive note and now you are resorting to labels like "Captain Crusader" and just taking another shot about what we already discussed. Should critical thinking EVER be encouraged? Who gets to and when?
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Why are you automatically assuming that you have stronger critical thinking skills than everyone else and that they need YOU to inform and guide them? Rather presumptuous and arrogant on your part and insults their intelligence. And if people want to think the Earth is flat or just like the idea, that's one thing and they should be left alone to do so, it's their right - however, if they turn around and try to insist it's scientific fact, well, they had better be able to back it up.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
>Why are you automatically assuming that you have stronger critical thinking skills than everyone else...
I don't. Do you even read what I write? I stated I assumed a mixture, some better and some worse than mine. You didn't answer my previous question, and I don't say they have no right to believe what they want, rather I would say their reasons fail with the application of some basic critical thinking. Google flat earth society, ok?
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Again - the fact that you even feel that you had to come in and be the critical thinking voice of reason for others does say that you feel that, Yes they cannot do it for themselves and need you to. Answer what question? And the fact that people practice and believe in something that has no scientific evidence doesn't automatically mean they lack critical thinking skills, by default.The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.Again, people have the right to believe what they want, so let them.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
U must mean don't question them, how can I NOT LET them? *sigh* It's like two ships passing in the night. I made no claims you ascribe to me in this recent post. I'm NOT saying what you think I am, it's that simple. Please read me more carefully. Critical thinking can be suspended in some *contexts* by otherwise very capable thinkers. (compartmentalization) My inquiry isn't about anything you've said regarding astrology, however you aren't the only one who has posted in this thread are you?
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
'Let' isn't the right word.You don't have any power over anybody nor they do not need your permission to believe what they believe or do what they want to do.And Yes, people have the right to their beliefs without you questioning them.Again, if they were demanding that astrology is a science and can be proven as such,that's different, but you are essentially trying to argue with people about what they believe in,which isn't something that affects you in any way and that they have every right to.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
Chadow claims in here because of astrology, he can profitably predict the outcomes of gambling and stock trades which are quantifiable. He claimed to another "there are no losses". He can't seem to back up this astro based claim beyond his "word". HOW it works isn't even a question yet, THAT his claims are true are pending. These aren't in principle subjective claims, they are very quantifiable. Wanna defend that? I gave up since he snubbed my questions. Now u come along missing the boat.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I'm not Chadow. He seems nice, and I'm definitely glad he made astrology vids, but not everyone who practices astrology sees everything the same way, frankly. So you essentially want me to sit here and argue and defend views that are not my own? When I commented, I wasn't addressing you or anybody else specifically. As I said, I was offering my two cents on the video itself, which is about astrology skeptics. You can't miss what you weren't trying to catch in the first place.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
You really don't get it, I'm NOT addressing YOU for exactly that reason, not EVERYONE sees astrology the same way and was showing where we prob agree. You keep thinking I am addressing YOU when I don't and didn't have any desire to address you further except to try and correct your incorrect assertions about my meaning. I already said I made a mistake about the target of your initial post and tried to disengage at that point, yet you suggest I'm brow beating? *sigh*
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Actually, you did address me. You can backpedal and claim you didn't and that your intentions weren't to try and start an argument all you want, but you and I both know that if I were addressing you, I would've replied directly to your post and/or referred to you by name. You also did the same thing to another poster in another astrology vid. You just want to argue and bully someone who believes in astrology.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
I don't refer to people by name, and many times people post "replies" without using "reply", which is beyond me. YT's thread management is poor to be generous, and often these relationships don't show up until later. I think it's pretty clear I tried to correct my mistake, but you then levied new assertions on me which I didn't make. I'll let the record, rather than your reinterpretation of it, speak for itself.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Not everyone replying in every vid who happens to say they believe in astrology is replying to you but somehow forgetting to hit reply or refer to you by name. That's absolutely asinine and you know it.Remember, I'm not the only one you've done this to, and even after I told you I wasn't addressing you with my first comment, you kept on, and about an hour ago you even tried to argue with me again, this time with Chadow's statement, basically pinning it on me and demanding that I defend it.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
My very first comment, was explaining how I wasn't "forcing" anyone to agree with me, but asking questions. I admittedly mistook your initial "don't force" comment as directed at me, and subsequently tried to disengage as I mentioned and you still hang on. I don't hate astrology, or any personal divination tool for that matter. Sadly, you seem to feel persecuted. I take issue with those claims such as chadow made and tried to explain the approach I used as not "force".
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I still say YouTube ate the first part of that exchange and that your approach was much less mellow and diplomatic than that. But, I can't prove it and it is possible I'm remembering things wrong.But again, like I said, if I were addressing you, I would've hit reply just like I have for the other 90 percent of this exchange, and were that somehow not possible, I would have referred to you by name. And again, you also bumrushed another person this same way in another vid on the same subject.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
I have not lost a single post, before I make more, I verify my previous posts "take".
Now it's "bumrushed", all I asked was what does "It works" mean? That's hardly an attack. C'mon, you are really reaching now. Let's recount, I'm a "brow beater", "bum rusher", "back peddler", "astrology hater", um, what else, oh "hissyfitter", nice. I just asked objective questions to see how people support claims they make. You aren't one of those making those claims, so I'm not asking you.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I remembered wrong then, but at any rate you have spent the majority of this exchange trying to goad me into arguing something that I never contested in the first place, even after I told you that and said more than once that I was not talking to you in my initial post. You also pulled the same thing on someone else in another one of Chadow's vids. You're baiting because you have an astrological axe to grind and want to argue, but when called on it you backtrack and claim it was an error.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
All those adjectives are a fitting description for someone who is adamant about how useless they think a subject is, but hangs around in the comment sections of vids about that same subject for months on end; then rushes anyone who says they like the subject and plays stupid later and says they didn't know they weren't talking to you, even after they told you they weren't MORE THAN ONCE; and proceeds to make nasty comments about the thinking skills and comprehension of those who don't agree.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
There's no way that two people somehow forgot how to reply directly to posts (or specify via name) on YouTube. Especially after one of them tells you more than once that they weren't talking to you but replying to the comments in the VIDEO, yet you still continue trying to pull them into an argument with you on the subject matter. And you've apparently been in both vids long term as well, so you definitely have an axe to grind or a personal agenda you're pushing where astrology is concerned.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
And disengaging would be agreeing to disagree, not trying to make me defend someone else's opinion on the subject and continuing to address the other party. And you were definitely brow-beating - you milked that 'prove it' thing until you couldn't anymore then just resorted to saying their was something wrong with everyone's thinking skills because they don't agree with you. If that's not browbeating, I don't know what is.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
All this is what you wrongly asserted about me, thankfully any reader can scroll back and see how it actually went. There isn't enough room to refute everything because it keeps piling up. So, I'll refer any readers to the record.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
No, they will see all the games you played and probably not realize that YT ate the first few comments of this exchange. I'm not wrong about you. How else do you explain someone hanging around in vids about a topic they hate for long periods of time, trying to start an argument with whoever comes in and believes in the subject matter, especially when they didn't approach you first to begin with and were just expressing their own opinion?
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
Oh, and on the "making you defend someone elses opinion" was an attempt to show you where we probably agreed, that objective claims about predicting stock / gambling outcomes is verifiable and he attributes this claimed skill to astrology. No, I didn't expect you to actually defend it. I actually thought you might agree with me based on your "astro isn't science but faith"-like position, especially given your comment about Horary Astrology. Oh well.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
No it wasn't. You wanted to argue with Chadow who, smartly, refuses to engage you on it anymore, so you tried to pin his words on me as though everyone into astrology thinks the same, and challenged me once again to prove astrology. Yes, you actually expected me to defend it as though all astrologers think the same and follow all the same schools of thought. Which shows your ignorance on the subject, because astrologers almost never agree on ANYthing.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
I said that very early on, when trying to disengage with you (search "snubbed"). Pin? I was trying to find our common grnd, yet you call me a liar. Wow, I hope people will take the time to read this and see the actual events, provided YT orders it as entered, which isn't always the case sadly. I'm not backpedaling, I'm replying to your accusations since my 1st disengagement attempt. Putting words in my mouth doesn't change what I said. For me being so unworthy, you can't seem to let it go.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Early on you did NOT try to disengage- the majority of that time was spent with me repeating myself that I don't think astrology is a science and wondering what your problem was.And Yes, almost two hours ago you brought up Chadow's views and demanded that I defend them, as if they were my own, so pin is accurate.And, I told you hours before that we agreed on astrology not being scientifically proven.Long before you did, and more than once.You weren't trying to prove what was already established.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
What you say makes no sense. I don't hold those views, my views are consistent. The record shows that. You kept putting incorrect words in my mouth and I was compelled to correct them. I brought up chadow again because your misunderstanding kept swinging around, so I tried to refocus on where we could get back on track, hopefully find common ground and stop. But, you see fit to keep this going and I'll keep responding until you stop inventing positions I don't hold.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
What I said made perfect sense. You are consistent in your hatred of astrology, but far from it where your actions (more like tactics) are concerned. You have no problem doing things to intentionally antagonize people then backtracking and saying it was error, or saying things happened in an order that they didn't and basically outright lying if it suits your purposes.Like I said, there was no need for you to establish common ground when I had done it already hours before. You wanted to bait.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
So if this is true:
>>.Like I said, there was no need for you to establish common ground when I had done it already hours before. You wanted to bait
Why would I say this on my 8th response to you? (were at well over 25 each)
8 - I still want and expect nothing.
I can only point to the evidence here, and what comes straight from my mouth, I don't hate astrology or any tool or divination. As I said in my 4th reply - astrology is incedental.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
And again, I have absolutely no interest in you personally. What I AM doing right now, is defending myself and repeating how the events actually occurred, because you're backtracking, rewriting history,trying to play clean up and essentially, saying that I'm lying when I'm definitely not. Being made out to be a liar would annoy anyone.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
So you can see why I am annoyed. Playing "I know you are but what am I" game doesn't work with adults, sorry.
It you have accused me of hating astrology, bumrushing, hissyfiting, trying to pin chadow's claims on you, thinking all astrologers are the same, lying and such, when I happily admit I'm holding none of those positions or behaviors. The record stands, just let it speak. I have no problem with you holding your "astrology is not science" position, nor claim you think otherwise.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
No, adults don't resort to games and sleazy tactics. You can try and pin your own behavior on me if you like, but you and I both know you're lying. You do hate astrology - you've been on a rage in this man's astrology videos, rushing to jump on anyone who has anything positive to say on the subject, trying to pin Chadow's thoughts on me and demand I defend them even after I've said at least a dozen times that I don't share those views. I don't care what you say, your actions tell the tale.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
>> I don't care what you say, your actions tell the tale.
This sums up the essence of this whole thread. The 1st post I mistook as directed at me. Thread reply's aren't put into the reply structure immediately by YT, and I was the most recent poster in a month.
The following are highlights from my 1st 9 replies to your responses. By reply 3, I was simply defending against accusations trying to clarify. It continues even now, but as you say, you don't care what I say. Here:
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
I think YT actively prevents quotes, I cannot paste them in, despite being short. This is frustrating as you might imagine. I'll try after this takes.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Here are two, maybe they will take:
5 - I'm not saying that you are, I'm trying to find some common ground for completion.
8 - I still want and expect nothing.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
The final one of this list was:
9 - I tried hard to end on a positive note and now you are resorting to labels like "Captain Crusader"
I've been trying to defend against these "I don't care what you say" accusations now for 21 more replies to you, and you sometimes posted 2 for my 1, none of those had me taking issue with your astrology position. That doesn't count those on the other vid "feebles foibles" (which were really part and referenced this thread actually) I didn't know which was what
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
It wasn't about you proving to me where we agreed, especially since I had already said before you did, repeatedly, hours ago, that we both agreed that astrology can't be scientifically proven. Right now you're trying to do a clean-up job and twist things you said and did around. Simple as that.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
And..I'm the most recent person who posted in this thread who happened to say they believed in astrology which made you want to argue. I understood you fine the first time, nothing you said was that complex. Essentially, you're pretending to be in here under the guise of scientific truth - only,when you get that, when people say that astrology isn't a science, you don't stop there. You still want to press the issue because really you feel no one should believe in astrology because YOU don't.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
When you first posted, I thought you were addressing me specifically. If I thought you were not addressing me, I wouldn't have bothered. Prior claims were made in this thread regarding astro & stocks/gambling outcomes by chadow. Read back maybe you will see my comments there. When I hear amazng truth claims I ask for objective evidence, because I don't want to be misled if possible. That says nothing about one's "right" to faith beliefs which for me is universal.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
If I were addressing you specifically, I would've hit 'reply'. Did the individual you're trying to browbeat in the other thread now, address you specifically or reply directly to your comments? And again, you keep saying one thing and doing another, because when I told you myself that I don't consider astrology a science, you kept on insisting I prove it, as though I'd said the opposite before finally implying that those believe anyway lack critical thinking skills.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
7 Hours ago when you said that, I replied:
"Not trying to debate you at all, I recognize you are free to believe whatever you want, on faith or evidence of whatever quality. I mistakenly thought you were responding to me specifically and am not trying to change your mind."
I didn't ask you for proof. I explained my motivations regarding chadow's gambling claims about astrology and you went back at me and we are still going following me "the brow beater" to another thread no less! lol
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Just because you bactracked and said you weren't trying to debate, that doesn't null and void your first INITIAL comment to me, which was you challenging me to prove astrology. Again, went went back and forth several times with you insisting that I prove astrology to you which made me have to keep reminding you that I never said astrology was scientifically valid in the first place.Then about an hour ago you tried to pin Chadow's statements on me and demanded again that I prove astrology to you.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
And I didn't follow you over to that vid, let's get this straight. I subscribed to Chadow a day ago and was actually watching multiple vids he did at that time. I was surprised to go in another one and see you pulling the same crap on another person that you did on me and couldn't pass up the opportunity to comment on it. But I don't follow people around, and certainly not you. Frankly, you're not interesting enough.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
Comment removed
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
So basically, I'm saying I believe in astrology, absolutely, but there's no way in hell I'd try to present it as scientific fact, and I'm not on board with anyone who does. At the same time, that doesn't mean that we don't have the right to believe in it. If it's not for you, then fine, but I don't see what trying to force everyone else to go along with you on it does. People have a right to believe what they want to believe. Hopefully I'm making sense, here.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
Ok, then I'm assuming you aren't supporting the gambling prediction claims made here.
Who said anything about "rights"? This is about critical thinking and epistemology.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Gambling predictions? Sounds like Horary Astrology and I'm really not into that, and I also haven't read the entire exchange of words in here. What I am saying is, people have a right to believe in whatever they want, but when it comes down to the area of science, if you're going to push something as scientific fact, you have better be able to prove it. You didn't bring up rights, but I did. Critical thinking and epistemology is irrelevant.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
I quote him: "Basement, there are no losses".
You should read what is said here, and how it sound questions are evaded.
The point of my comment was about critical thinking, yours was about rights. If you just want to give opinions that's fine with me, I was trying to actually respond to your statement.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
That is their opinion,they're entitled to it. I don't have to read the exchange, I was not commenting on any exchanges here in the first place. I'm offering up my own thoughts on the video. I did respond to your statement, which really wasn't so much about critical thinking as simply saying you don't agree that astrology is scientific fact. Which is fine, because I'm not pushing that theory in the first place myself. I'm going with what resonates with me. If it doesn't for you, find what does.
SnotRockets55 2 years ago
If it isn't science, and just "principles", what principles are there that can't be tested scientifically? How do you know they are valid? (Anecdote isn't reliable validation) If you dig into them, those principles may involve scientific claims. Why planets and not bird droppings or crushed peanuts for example? If you make a statement about someone, how do you objectively test whether that statement couldn't be made (better) via some other (less tangential) technique?
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Jonstewartftranboy,
Astrology isn't a quantifiable discipline, m=no science. I used that word to have fun with my audience. Jon, I actually make a lot of money in the money market and base all of my moves both by selling and buying stock. . . all with astrology. What do I care if you believe what I do or not? Grab your hair and pull. . . how would I know how you feel?
chadow723 2 years ago
You would have a pretty decent idea by pulling your own and utilizing our similarities as typical humans to map that sensation to me (theory of mind).
YOU are the one that came on YT and made claims about Astro, I just asked questions, which you didn't answer. As for your discretionary stock picking (fwiw, money market is commercial paper&repos not stock), it hardly demonstrates astrology's validity unless it can be replicated in a controlled way, otherwise it is just self serving anecdote.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Jon, Yes, I did, and I came on YT to attract like minded people who want to learn what I know. You see, the situation is easily replicated as I do this daily regardless of the "official name" the transactions may have. Replication, yes, often yes, exciting, yes for me and many clients I make the calls for. You don't know it, but it works if you use the proper methods and not the rubbish that's called astrology out there today.
chadow723 2 years ago
Sounds like a veiled commercial for some kind of subscription newsletter or website. So far, nobody published on Wall Street using Astro "timing" has had any audited results that are better than statistical norms. (i.e. no real edge)
Substituting this stuff instead of answers to my straightforward questions is rather telling though.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago
Jon, Yes, doesn't it though :-)
There are astrologers who can and there are astrologers who can't. Simple analogy, I do what I do and I do it well. . . this is a well known fact in my circle.
As far as showing audited results. . . get real.
Who wants to?
There is NO answer to your straightforward questions. None whatsoever. Astrology can't be answered or accounted for in 500 hundred words or less. Neither can syntactical expression.
chadow723 2 years ago
If astrology is to have any objective validity, it shouldn't depend on a particular "expert" to demonstrate it works. Math, physics, medicine, engineering etc, all work. There are individuals who excel, but to demonstrate the principles and efficacy of the knowledge requires no "super" practitioner. You are free to make as many 500 chunk posts (addressing whatever detail is needed) as you wish or a video. Answering my questions don't need long equivocations, just basic RELEVANT answers.
jonstewartfanboy 2 years ago