brown and root was paid one billion dollars (a lot of money at the time) to dredge cameron bay. look at any conflict from ww2 to afganistan and that hog is feeding at the public trough.
JFK ordered, LBJ delivered . but of course we have to give the Kennedys credit for everything good beacuse they are "American royalty" "America died when Jack did" blah blah. everything bad of course was that low life red neck LBJ's fault. He simply used JFK's memory. He didnt call senators and pressure them like he did in the senate nooo.of course not! it was all kennedy all hail the kennedys bow down and worship!
I think Johnson was a way better president than Kennedy. Kennedy said civil rights was politically impossible. It really pisses me off that people credit Kennedy for Civil Rights when it doesn't seem like he did all he could to get it done.
@AlecBoy006 Johnson was a peace of shit. Not only was he an arrogant bastard who stole elections and twisted truths, he also took credit for Kennedy's domestic program. For the first 2 years in office he fed off the popularity and memory of JFK. And Johnson took all credit for the 64 and 65 civil rights bills. He didnt make them and also opposed civil rights in the past such as the 1957 civil rights bill (kennedy and al gore sr. also opposed that bill). They are all hypocrites.
@AlecBoy006 JFK was a good president but he just didn't have long enough. I think maybe if he lived he wouldn't have been as successful as LBJ was with domestic policy but wouldn't have messed up Vietnam. they were both awesome.
@Derby14 LBJ used to help Nixon too. A lot of the animosity between republicans and democrats is for show. These guys are all close. If people could see how close they really are, somebody might start asking about just how many parties do we have in this country.
LBJ stripped naked on Air Force One, no matter who was there, including his daughters.One agent said, 'if this guy wasn't president, he'd be in a mental hospital, he's so nutty." He would urinate in front of female reporters at the ranch. He would sit on the toilet and defecate in front of aides.
LBJ's behavior was outlandish. Incidents included having affairs with his secretaries, urinating in public and stripping naked every time he entered Air Force One. Lady Bird caught LBJ having sex with a secretary in the Oval Office.
He blew up at the Secret Service and said, 'you should have warned me she was coming,' and he insisted they install a buzzer system to warn him the next time that Lady Bird was in the vicinity.
It's not so much that Kennedy didn't care about domestic policy he barely won and had no mandate to do anything. The southerners in congress at the time also held up his civil rights bill and his health care bill (medicare). LBJ used JFK's memory to get these bills strengthened, passed through congress, and incorporated them into the Great Society. The war on poverty was LBJ's idea.
@crackmonster99 LOL the war on pverty was a cause that JFK engineered and LBJ hated the kennedys because THOSE were not good for business and its why the son of a bitch aided in JFKs death theres plenty of videos on his old staff talking on him for the piece of shit he was lol he cared shit about poverty please lol!
@kahetel13 The war on poverty was a JFK idea I just finished a book explaining just that but JFK was going to limit it to Kentucky. LBJ expanded it to the whole country. Believe it or not LBJ did care about poor people and wasn't comfortable around ivy leaguers. He had a tendency to bully his subordinates and couldn't keep people on his staff long because of his temper. That more than anything else is why former LBJ staffers talk down on their former boss.
@crackmonster99 ok so you just stated he bullied his subordinates and couldnt keep people on his staff long ? he was a arrogant and temper driven killer thanks for confirming his temper and no i dont believe he cared about the poor not really
@crackmonster99 No, JFK couldnt get anything done because he was green. LBJ spent his entire life in congress, and he was known for getting things done. He knew how to push legislation through congress. He knew the players, and he knew what it took to make a deal. JFK had absolutely no track record, no experience. LBJ was highly qualified and had a record of success in congress. He was speaker of the house.
@crackmonster99 Well apparently Kennedy had written the words "War on Poverty" on a scrap of paper for ideas for his reelection but I will concede to you that LBJ made it his own crusade.
Interesting that Ike calls Johnson "Mr. President". Today it is protocal for Presidents and former Presidents to call each other, in private, by their first names. Clinton and Bush are "Bill and George" which each other, and both call President Obama by his first name in private.
How we rewrite history. All the evidence says that Kennedy was on his way to do the same things in Vietnam that LBJ had to do when he took over. We must remember JFK oversaw Diem's death.
JFK was assured by the South Vitenamese military that the November 1963 coup would be bloodless and Diem would be exiled to Burma or Thailand, not executed. When Diem was killed, he felt lied to and was rethinking U.S. policy in Vietnam when he, Kennedy, was killed.
@proken58 simply not true. There wasnt even a single person that could speak for "the south vietnamese military" at that time, as you say. Secondly, the plan left the question of what to do with Diem and Nhu up to the viet generals, but the state department did direct in the final hours "if exhile is decided upon, under no circumstances would the Nhu's be allowed to stay in asia." So geez, you are just totally wrong on all accounts. Care to say where you get your bad information?
not only did JFK plan and carry out the coup, the question needs to be asked and understood-why did he do this? Did he do this because he was getting ready to withdraw? Why didnt he then withdraw when he had so many opportunities to do so? When Diem and Nhu asked him to pull the troops out? JFK carried out the coup because he wanted the US to have complete control over the prosecution of the war. This was another step in his massive escalation. The step thjat sealed our fate.
My best friends uncle was the mayor of Da Nang. His other uncle was an officer in the military police. He tracked down communist agents. He wrote a book about it. His name is Lien Thanh. He is all over vietnamese youtube. Look it up.
In his book, he talks about how every time he captured a communist agent, he was ordered by some high up authority to release them. He discovered the vietcong were based in the basements of the buddhist pagodas, and some priests were actually high level vietcong operatives. He found loads of materiel, and communications equipment, in rooms under the pagodas, but he couldnt do anything about it.
Ike said the US military should stay out of vietnam. But when Kennedy got into office, he began ramping up US involvement. A quote from a JFL speech in 1963, shortly before Dallas, where he is boasting about his increases in military spending "we have increased american fighting forces in vietnam by 600%. Put that on a banner."
Ike knew to focus on the political side of the equation, not the military side. He set up south Vietnam, and put in a stable political leadership. JFK focused almost exclusively on the military side of things, and looked the other direction and the corrupt group of infighting generals, former french military members, who didnt care about civilian casualities, and only looked to benefit themselves. No military force can save that kind of political system that totally lost popular support.
yeah. a good solid man. affairs all over the place, even with women connected to the mob, poor decision making and lack of experience. Bay of Pigs. Putting missiles in Turkey, Cuban missile crisis. Assasination of Diem. Killing all those poor farmers in Laos, sealing our fate in vietnam, coverup of his own disease that made him unable to handle any kind of stress. Wow, a good solid man?
You have an agenda. You wanna smear President Kennedy. I thought you loved him like everybody else. He`s an icon in the democratic party. You failed to mention any of his successes. I hate people like you. Screw u!
and I think people like you are just soft in the head. Making JFK out to be a hero when in actuality he did so much damage to this country. And there is LBJ, who accomplished so much from civil rights to the Great Society, and you totally ignore him. Even worse, people like you attribute some of his accomplishments to JFK. Wishful thinking I guess.
oh please. every success was Kennedy's idea??? Did people stop using their brains in this country? Kennedy didnt give a shit about civil rights or domestic policy. That was LBJ's focus. Go ahead and tell me Great Society was JFK's idea. And voting rights act? JFK's idea? Then why didnt he do anything when he was in office? He was busy thinking up all these great ideas that he didnt have any time to take any actions??
Who federalized the alabama national army so that black students could attend college?? He was probably killed for that action. You don`t seem to have a clue on JFK so why do you bother?
Ike sent in National Guard troops to Little ock. Does that make him the civil rights president? You make it sound so dramatic. JFK was not interested in civil rights. If he was, there was so much he could have done. LBJ was interested in civil rights, and look at what he did about it. JFK was acting predictably, the macho man president responding to a challenge to the federal government, which he interpreted as a challenge to his manhood. Civil rights had little to do with it.
You are right. JFK didn't care about Civil Rights...Bobby may have, but not JFK. LBJ formed his Great Society with good intentions. Most of his programs were updated versions of Roosevelts Fair Deal, which Johnson got his start working as an aide on. While he may have taken a few things from JFK's Presidency, the Great Society was all LBJ. Hopefully history will start showing this and when people think about Civil Rights, they put a picture of LBJ right next to MLK.
I can imaging LBJ turning over in his grave every time somone calls JFK the civil rights president, and pegs LBJ as being responsible for the vietnam war.
LBJ was a initially a teacher who taught black children in the desolete areas of Texas. He had a compassion for them. To pass two major Civil Rights bills in two years is unimaginable. People should look up all the programs from the Great Society and see how many we use today still. Head start, school lunch programs, and truth in labeling (food manufacturers have to put on labels stating what is in the food). Things you don't even think about were LBJ's Great Society programs.
LBJ changed was the most effective president of the 20th century. Nobody did more than LBJ. He passed major laws on civil rights, education, housing, and even health care, all in his first 2 years. If he hadnt gotten stuck with JFK's vietnam mess, it would be LBJ's face on the money. JFK called all economically disadvantaged people "poor suckers". He couldnt get anything done because he was too busy with his weekly drunken orgies by the white house pool.
Your right. Kennedy was pretty much just an image who's looks brought elegance to the White House. Bobby was a lot of the brains behind JFK (ooh didn't mean it to sound that way) but you know what I mean. Bobby and Teddy were more for the down trodden and for those who never got a fair shake in life. If not for Nam, LBJ's Great Society could have changed the world. The major bills he passed: Medicaid-Medicare and two civil rights bills in two years, were all voted down by by republicans.
@LittleVinnyCock JFK served 3/4ths of his term, so we do have a very good indication what he would have done in his last year in office. Civil rights-nothing. More delaying, more stalling. Vietnam war-he would have followed through with the continutation of his MASSIVE escalation and americanization of the war. He most likely would NOT have waited until 1965 to send in US troops as LBJ did. He would have done it in the chaos after his coup. After all, that was the purpose of his coup.
LBJ initiated and pushed through more civil rights legislation than any other presidident in the history of this country. But wait, how little did we know? It was all JFK's ideas. Wow. Who would have guessed? All the time JFK spent lounging around the pool,smoking cigars and cavorting with the whores brought in when Jackie was out, he was actually thinking up the entire domestic agenda of the future president , LBJ. He was so generous, saving his best ideas for LBJ.
everything JFK got in life came tohim onm a silver platter from Daddy. He wanted to be a PT boat captain, he got it. The first time he saw combat, he made so many mistakes, and sunk the boat. How does a speedy, nimble PT boat get rammed by a destroyer anyway? Couldnt manage to get off a single torpedo. And because of that, he is made a war hero....by Daddy.
@LittleVinnyCock Respond to this video...Gen Maxwell Taylor - "Kennedy repeatedly emphasized the desire to utilize the siuation in Vietnam to study and test the techniques and equipment of counterinsurgency, and hence he insisted on exposing our most promising officers to servicein Vietnam." Face it, Kennedy was a gung ho cold warrior, and he massively escalatd in Vietnam from the beginning of his term. Kennedy WANTED to fight in Vietnam. LBJ wanted anything BUT a war in Vietnam.
@Jellolion1 wow you really have no idea do you. Look at Kennedys speech on secret govnt. Kennedy was stated he was gonna tear the cia into 1000 pieces and make the dollar backed by silver and close the federal reserve. The war in vietnam was caused by the cia he did what he had to than when he saw it was all a lie he changed and was calling out the secrete society in govnt that caused these issues. Johnson was part of the kennedy murder plan and simple. he was the head of the coup of the times.
@THXcooper a vid? You want a vid? You think these clips on youtube actually have any truth or accuracy to them? Sorry, I cant provide you the spoon fed little clip to make you feel comfortable. But if it is documents that you are after, why not go to the US archives website? You can read all of JFK's meeting notes involving escalation of the war, and leading up to the murder of Diem. Thats what the K brothers spent most of their time on, screwy black ops planning, and bimbos.
Respond to this video... while you are there, you can compare to LBJ's meeting records and see what he spent most of his time on, successfully moving forward civil rights and the great society, and leaving a legacy that lasts to this day.
@Jellolion1 and killing 58,ooo thousand troops.LBJ knew the war was unwinnable but was stubborn and didn't want to show weakness.In 1968 LBJ quit in vietnam and resign the presidency in disgrace.
@LittleVinnyCock thank you for that. Did you think we were not aware of that. LBJ hated the war in vietnam. He was pushed into it by politics. As LBJ said, he ws damned if he did, damned if he didnt. McNamara knew how to play on LBJ's emotions and push his buttons. McNamara went one litttle step at a time, to ultimately succeed in his master plan of getting LBJ to send in massive numbers of troops.
@LittleVinnyCock JFK would have sent in the troops even soner than LBJ. The cornerstone of JFK's military policy was to embrace the book "The Silent Trumpet",by Gen Taylor, which favored building up conventional troops to fight what he called "limited wars" in thrid world countries. This was wwhat was exactly behind his escalation in Vietnam. Vietnam was to be JFK's showcase of "limited war".
hmmm ...... good rhetoric, these days i tend to reflect same ..... myth making of a slain president .... truth is he was juggling some very pissed alliances from hoover to LBJ and the south to the mafia to the military industrial complex to the ruskies and cubans ..... pure mineland ..... its a wonder he wasnt shot before taking office ..... and if that happened ... well ....
Kassandracomplex quote, cut and pasted "As for the CIA under Eisenhower, Stanley Sheinbaum has admitted that the CIA was infiltrating the Saigon police force in 1956 I believe."
JFK was killing 600 civilians a week by his indescriminate bombing of civilian hamlets by the VNAF, the vietnamese air force, consisting of american planes and air force pilots. Where is the outrage about that? JFK cant do anything bad? What about his coup that created the quagmire in vietnam? How about his indescriminate bombing in Laos, killing thousands of poor farmers?
During the JFK administration, the CIA tried to drop ARVN special forces soldiers into north vietnam. They dropped hundreds of them into the north, but after they dropped them in, they would never hear anything back. Years later, they found out that every single one was killed. Because they wore shoes, and not the sandals that were popular in the north, they were immediately recogized. It took the CIA years to figure this out, and hundreds of soldiers were killed.
Jellolion1, you have emotional issues. Take a day off and then remove your embarrassing posts. You'll feel better. And read about Sheinbaum and the CIA in Vietnam under Eisenhower, NOT Kennedy. Eisenhower's TORTURE of Vietcong had nothing to do with MAD. But the fact he did it contradicts your statement that Eisenhower "exclusively relied on MAD". That is your patently ridiculous quote.
whats wrong? never saw the facts before? Spend all your time around JFK fairy tale believers? Eisenhowers torture of vietcong? horseshit. We didnt really start getting involved in the real combat missions until the kennedy administration. Read John Paul Vann. Trying to blame it on Eisenhower, and somehow keeping Kennedy out of the picture is pure JFK propaganda. JFK got us into the vietnam war. Go back to reading fairy tales. Obviously you cant handle the truth.
Why are you so hung up on Eisenhower torturing vietcong? The war escalated exponentially after Eisenhower left office and JFK came in. You are some kind of anti Eisenhower goofball. Ike told us to stay out of vietnam. JFKJ didnt listen and got us in the quagmire by killing Diem.
after JFK's goons got rid of Diem, they went after all of Diems relatives, hunted them down and killed them all. They went after every regional governor, and deposed them. A lot of torturing and killing going on then. The country was in chaos, and the vietcong made some huge victories during this time. Lodge came back to washington and told LBJ "vietnam has gone to hell in a handbasket. The will to fight has died with Diem".
Eisenhower relied soley on MAD, you stupid dolt. All of our Navy ships and air force had only nuclear weapons on board during those years. Anybody with a brain knows this. Tell me, where did Eisenhower send our troops to fight a conventional war? He didnt do it, because he was relying soley on MAD. JFK reversed this policy, as he pured money into the Army and special forces, and conventional weapons.
calling Ike a murderer because he won ww2. Now I see what kind of screwball we have here. Focusing on Ikes activities in vietnam when JFK scaled it up 100 times from Ike. You dont think JFK had the CIA in Vietnam? How do you think he murdered Diem. JFK knew he was going to hell, because he murdered a fellow catholic. Ho Chi Minh said it was the stupidest thing the US ever did. The murder of Diem was the action that got us into the quagmire in vietnam.
kassandracomplex, you are obviously a left wing fool, who thinks anything the US did to protect its interest in the world was evil. Why do you think you have such an easy life? Because people like Ike secured our freedom and prosperity. Ike is a hero, not a murderer. Unfortunately JFK blew it big time. Sticking LBJ with the huge mess he created. JFK murdered the strongest leader of south vietnam, the only independent voice of vietnam. The beginning of the quagmire.
There is a book called "legacy of ashes" that describes the history of the CIA. During the early years of the war, nobody in the CIA could even speak vietnamese. They knew nothing about vietnam. Infiltrating the saigon police so they could torture vietcong prisoners??? That is so stupid. The south vietnamese didnt need any help torturing communists, and the CIA never successfully infiltrated anything in vietnam. Never. They infiltrated the american- U Mich organization. .
Sheinbaum was probably a CIA asset. The whole U. Mich. project failed anyway, like everything else the CIA tried to do in Vietnam. Diem got fed up with them and kicked them out of the country. Trying to infiltrate the Saigon police - ha ha , how did you ever come up with that? The CIA were all white, upper class americans. How could they ever have fit in with the Saigon police??? You are not too smart, are you?
"Trying to infiltrate the Saigon police - ha ha , how did you ever come up with that?"
Why don't you go talk to Stanley Sheinbaum about it since you're a genius of his caliber. And it was Eisenhower who authorized the assassination attempts against Castro, through Sidney Gottlieb.Your insults and mental imbalance bore me. You suffer cranio rectal blockage. Bore me no more please.
The Kennedy administration set up the VNAF- the vietnamese air force - american planes, US air forcre pilots. They ran the war like a business, and every branch of the service wanted a piece of JFK's new business line, especially the air force. They could keep these air bases locked up and away from the press.
As John Paul Vann described, the targets they hit were almost exclusively civilian hamlets. The air Force officers didnt care to go out in the field to see what they were hitting, like Vann did. Besides, that would be bad for business. In mid 1962, they were killing 600 civilians per week in their bombing runs.
Why should I go talk to a cia asset piece of crap like Sheinbaum? You read 1 (one) book and you think you know everything about the vietnam war. I have read every book I can get my hands on, for the past 20 years, and my best freinds here are all vietnamese. I have been to vietnam several times. What about you? You know nothing. Some of my freinds are former south vietnamese officers, some were former communists collaboraters. I know all of them. What about you? One book. Ha.
another kassandracomplex quote: "Eisenhower introduced the CIA into Vietnam and they were torturing and killing back in the 50s when Stanley Sheinbaum was staffing the Saigon police force riddled with CIA plants". Tell me more about how the CIA was infiltrating the Saigon police with "CIA plants". What a stupid load of bullshit. Sheinbaum was the CIA asset, and it was the U Mich organization that was infiltrated by the CIA, not the Saigon police force, you stupid dolt.
Sheinbaum was part of a Mich State Univ organization to advise the Diem government. Later it was revealed that they were infiltrated and being run by the CIA. Nevertheless, Diem had goten fed up with them and kicked them out of the country anyway. The CIA most certainly did not "infiltrate the saigon police". That is laughable. They infiltrated the amercan MSU organization. The real question is how did a group of so called amercan intellectuals became stoodges for the CIA?
Sheinbaum ... landing a teaching job at Michigan State University in 1954. There, he landed a position as co-director of the Vietnam Project, as well. His responsibilities as part of the Vietnam Project included hiring men to travel to South Vietnam and set up a police force, but during a trip to Saigon Sheinbaum realized that not only had he unknowingly become a puppet for the CIA, but that his own men were using torture techniques to interrogate Vietcong prisoners as well.
After the French lost, Ike was getting a lot of pressure to go into Vietnam. He sent Ridgeway to analyze the situation, then said NO WAY, because 1) the climate and terrain 2) it was an irregular war 3) they didnt have the support of the population. JFK went straight into vietnam as soon as he got into office. He spent all of 1963 planning the coup, because Diem didnt want US troops in vietnam. JFK wanted the US to take complete control of the war, so he had to get rid of Diem.
Sidney Gottlieb, an Eisenhower murderer and likely a murderer of American scientist Frank Olson. Eisenhower was a murderer, that's how he won WW2. And it was Eisenhower who first began the American atrocities in Vietnam.
Eisenhower won world war 2 because he was a murderer? Thats just precious. I suppose you would rather have left the nazis and japanese win. Eisenhower was a smart man. He kept us out of trouble, until that inexperienced goofball came into office and sent us straight into one quagmire after another. JFK and RFK's favorite pastime was to dream up some screwball ideas for covert actions against the cubans and castro, not to mention Laos and vietnam.
"March 1960, under The Cuban Project, a CIA plan approved by President Eisenhower and under the direction of CIA Directorate for Plans, Richard M. Bissell, Gottlieb came up with ideas to spray Fidel Castro's television studio with LSD and to saturate Castro's shoes with thallium so that the hair of his beard would fall out. Gottlieb also hatched schemes to assassinate Castro, including the use of a poisoned cigar, a poisoned wetsuit, an exploding conch shell, and a poisonous fountain pen."
I believe the first American soldier to die at the hands of nationalist Vietnamese units was in 1945 in an ambush. The introduction of the CIA and the killings and torture began under Eisenhower. Don't forget, Eisenhower was responsible (along with MacArthur) for the most obscene affront to the American military in history, the attack on the Bonus Marchers 1932) In this tape we hear Ike talking about how he'd use nukes if he felt he had to. Ike was a killer. Patrice Lamumba found that out.
You make some good points Kassandra, but you exaggerate your point. Ike was not president in 1945 after all, Truman was. Truman was the first to begin American involvement in Vietnam.
Also, Ike was McArthur's subordinate during the attack on the Bonus Marchers. It's unfair to blame him for this, when he was obeying the orders of his superior. You make it sound like it was his idea. Remember too the CIA, although in contact with the President, used to do a lot largely unsupervised.
There is actually a video clip here on You Tube showing MacArthur at the Bonus assault (theyactually used tanks on starving American vets!!!!) and in the video I believe you can see Eisenhower standing next to Mac. His back is turned but it appears to be him. I guess he could always have used the Nuremburg Defense...
Yes I exaggerate slightly but I'm tired of people praising Ike as though he was a grandfatherly type. One could argue that American involvement in Vietnam began in 1840 when Admiral White (was it? Memory is rough here...) first sailed into the Delta in Anaam or whatever they called it then. The CIA there was Eisenhowers however, installed I believe by Stanley Sheinbaum into the Saigon police force, over which Sheinbaum had hiring power. (Sheinbaum incredulously denied knowing what he was doing)
Yes, Kassandracomplex likes to exaggerate. Ding dong. Almost everything you have said so far has been completey wrong. Like LBJ directing nuclear weapons research in Israel? Idiot.
Yes, kassandracomplex likes to exaggerate. Her specialty is making up facts, like saying LBJ had the power to stop the Israeli nuclear program. Like saying Bell Helicopters got their military contract from LBJ. Bell put jet turbines on the helicopters, making them into military tools of unimagainable capability. Only a fool would ignore their capability.
By 1953 the USA was paying 78% of Frances total costs in Indochina!
It is funny how Ike is clear about "winning" - Which is the complete & utter antithesis of LBJ's policy of "gradual escalation" (which led to so much suffering & death)
LBJ has got to be one of the South's most corrupt & duplicitous political figures
LBJ was never convinced that the US involvement was going to achieve anything. He was very careful to avoid attacking large centers of population in the North, because he was afraid of another Korean war, with millions of chinese coming over the border. Most of the"suffering and death" came from Nixon, who had no qualms about bombing cities and killing large numbers of civilians. And just as LBJ had predicted, it accomplished nothing.
LBJ was not above murder (he had his own sister killed). He was in on the assassination & he engineered the cover up. He had the most to gain & the most to lose because he was going to be dumped from the ticket in 1964 as a result of another justice department investigation into Bobby Baker's activities that would have exposed LBJ to a criminal indictment. JFK thought he could give up Texas as long as he could win California. The political battle turned into a blood feud.
Yet, he was the first President to send advisors into French Vietnam...hmmm... That being said, I know what you are saying though. Johnson wanted to be FDR and win a war of his own.
The first person to put troops into vietnam was JFK. JFK had 18000 troops in vietnam. Diem didnt want them there. Finally they agreed to no more than 12,000, yet JFK had 18000 troops there. Nhu, vietnam sec of defense, said he was tired of US soldiers entering vietnam illegally, not paying any attention to the laws of south vietnam, and operating at will. Diem and Nhu didnt live much longer after thjey expressed their opinions on the american troops. JFK had them killed.
The vietnam war turned after JFK's coup. JFK organized the coup in 1963, and carried it out in Nov 1963, to usurp the power from Diem. Diem wanted the americans out of vietnam. JFK wanted to have the ultimate authority on running the war, so he had Diem and Nhu killed, and he put in incompetent american puppets. This allowed the ameicanization and expansion of the war.
Actually, Will, I've heard that conversation before and considering the context, I've always thought it obvious that when he said "we" had Diem killed that we meant we in the Kennedy administration (esp since he complains about it). LBJ as VP wouldn't have had the power to direct the CIA to carry out coups. Kennedy's tapes, however, show that he authorized the Diem Coup, but they don't indicate that he intended Diem to be murdered. LBJ and Nixon (who got info from J. Edg Hoover) thought JFK did.
organizing and staging a coup in south vietnam, and pinning your hopes on men like "the generals," whose only goals were being able to enrich themselves with the governments money, this is the equivalent of driving drunk on the freeway. You cant absolve yourself from the consequenses. And the worst was not the deaths of Diem and Nhu. The worst was the total destabilization of the government, and the huge advances made by the communists during this time, from which the south never recovered.
watch?v=5FiKVcmNqOY&feature=related The fog of war. pres LBJ says to MacNamara "how can you say you are pulling men out when you were losing the war?" JFK wanted to pull out 6% of the troops in vietnam. It was just for show. It was insignificant number of troops. JFK carried out the coup in order to take over the government of south vietnam and take full control of the war.
JFK made no indication that he would withdraw - The AP press piece on the Honolulu conference gave no indication he would withdraw; nor did Excerpts from briefing book prepared for the November 1963 Honolulu Conference on Vietnam
Once Diem & his brothers were dead, from that time on, it was probably inevitable that Washington would commit American combat forces to South Vietnam, although LBJ held back until March 1965
Four years later, it became clear that 550,000 US troops weren't helping
Actually Kennedy was about to pull the troops and Robert McNamarra (who was a truly loyal honorable man if you do the silghtest unbiased research about him) acknowledged this in the documentary "Fog of War". Eisenhower introduced the CIA into Vietnam and they were torturing and killing back in the 50s when Stanley Sheinbaum was staffing the Saigon police force riddled with CIA plants. The Kennedy's are not here because they were true progressives. Vietnam was a GOP operation early on.
boy you really bought the load of shit. JFK was not involved because he was a true progressive? What about the coup he spent all of 1963 planning, and resulted in the death of Diem. He carried out this coup so the US could get control of the war. Diem didnt want the americans in vietnam. If JFK really wanted out, wouldnt that have been the perfect time to exit??? JFK didnt want out. That is bullshit, and he said as much in his cronkite interview.
so the cia wasnt involved when JFK was president??? What makes you think that the cia wasnt doing the same thing during the JFK administration? You believe the manufactured image of JFK, that everything bad was done by people pulling the wool over the eyes of JFK. Its so much horseshit. Do you really think JFK could have been that stupid? JFK was running the show. He was commander in chief. There are loads of evidence, hard evidence, to show that JFK was the key planner and supporter of the coup
I believe the CIA was involved in Vietnam during JFK's administration. All I was pointing out is that people have a falsely benevolent image of Ike who was the progenitor of the CIA's involvement in Vietnam. As for the "manufactured image of JFK, I believe the negative image most Americans have of him is manufactured from years of what they call "blaming the dead guy" politics. The MSM has had little good to say about him for decades, unfairly I think.
The CIA was involved in vietnam???? How did you come to that conclusion? Do you find that suprising? What do you think the role of the CIA is anyways?? Most Americans have a positive image of Ike and a negative image of JFK??? (they are both dead by the way). What country are you from???
Kennedy was about to pull the troops? You mean the 18000 troops that he started escalating over the UN mandate of 300 the minute he got into office? At what point was he going to pull the troops? After he destroyed the government by his coup, assasinated Diem, and drove the country into complete chaos? Is that when he was planning on pulling out the troops?
How do I come to the conclusion the CIA was involved in Vietnam? Stanley Sheinbaum and his efforts at staffing the Saigon PD mid 50s. That's when the CIA started their horrors. I believe McNamarra's assertion that Kennedy had decided to begin the withdrawal, simultaneous with his efforts to halt Israel's nuke program. Chaos reigned by the time Ike left office, Kennedy didn't cause that. Talk to Vietnamese as I have personally about the UN colonial bisection of their country.
macnamara, the person that assembled stories of us servicement being tortured and murdered by the vietcong, in order to convince LBJ to start the bombing campaign? And of course once the bombing started, you had to send in marines to protect the air bases. And once the marines go in, if someone starts shooting at them, they will attack back. So they will need to be supplement by armytroops. unbiased research my ass. Read Dan Ellsberg's book.
At least one of those stories was true. But LBJ needed no coaxing. Texas congressman LBJ, Vietnam escalation, Bell Helicopters Fort Worth Texas, I've always thought a connection there. He also gave Israel a green light to go nuclear and increased military funding after Kennedy was murdered. Minus Kennedy, escalation went turbo charged and Israel went nuclear.
Bell Helicopters, Ft worth Texas??? All you have are coincidences. Tell me you really believe the president of the US is involved in military procurement, not only in quantities, but choosing specific weapons systems?? You have obviously never worked for the government before. You think the president can just call up the military and say hey, why dont you order up a few hundred thousand helicopters. The decision to go with helicopters was in the works for a long time, long before LBJ.
The Bell Helicoptors first went into service in Vietnam in 1962. The idea to use helicoptors for army air mobile was hatched in the Kennedy administration. It certainly had nothing to do with the vice president at the time.
Israel would not have asked for, or listened to anything LBJ had to say regarding Israels ability to defend itself. The Israel nuclear program started in 1949. The US had inspectors in Israel throughout the 60's. Israel got their nuclear program going by cooperation with the French, buying parts from west Germany, and stealing and smuggling whatever they couldnt buy legally.Israel and France had a mutual enemy-Egypt.
LBJ increased military funding after JFK was murdered? Major wars tend to have that effect. But LBJ's immediate focus after the assasination was the war on poverty. When the war began to heat up, he was very dissapointed that the vietnam war took funding away from his great society programs.
tell me, what exactly was JFK doing to prevent Israel from developing nuclear weapons. Israel certainly didnt slow down when JFK was in office. You make it sound like Israel answered to JFK, and JFK was preventing Israel from working on its nuclear program, that it started with France in 1949. Are you making this stuff up???
the whole idea to fight in vietnam came from Kennedy and Taylor. Taylor wrote a book on limited warfare in 1959, and Kennedy embraced it and adopted it as the cornertone of his military policy. Eisenhower relied exclusively on mutually assured destruction. But Kennedy said we want to fight these "small" wars , and he poured the money into the army, and embraced technologies such as bell helicopters to use in vietnam.
"Eisenhower relied exclusively on mutually assured destruction."
And the tortured and murdered Vietnamese under Eiesenhower done by the CIA? Where does that fit into MAD? Never mind. I don't really care what you think. Your bias is palapable and obviously flawed. Please don't respond. I will not respond to you.
You never hear of MAD, mutually assured destruction? It was the cornerstone of our cold war policity for many years, you stupid dolt. Why did you reply if you dont want to hear what it is? The Eisenhower administration military policy was based on MAD. He cut funding to conventional forces, like the army, and put all the funding into the air force. Kennedy reversed this because he wanted to fight want he called "limited wars". He based his military policy on Maxwell Taylors book.
General Maxwell Taylor, wrote a book in 1959 that embraced "limited warfare". Taylor was the top guy in vietnam under JFK. JFK embraced his book, and made it part of his 1960 campaign platform. When he got into office, he poured funding back into the army, and invented "special forces" like the seals, green berets, etc to fight one of these limited wars, in vietnam. Most military people were totally opposed and said there was no such thing as a "limited war".
The policy of limited war, or "flexible response" was undoubtedly on JFK's mind from the beginning of his administration, when he tried to use it on Cuba in the bay of pigs, and failed miserably. The problem, according to most of JFK's advisors, is there is no such thing as a limited war. Once one side starts losing, they escalate, then the other side escalates. JFK didnt learn his lesson, because this desribes the vietnam war exactly.
I don't think you could correctly answer why Kennedy pulled the air support at the Bay of Pigs. Oh, and the lead assassin who allegedly contrived all the Castro plots undr Kennedy? Sidney Gotlieb and they were contrived under Eisenhower. Kennedy very likely might not even have known about them at first. March 1960. Get yer facts straight buckaroo.
under Diem, the war was fairly low key. Typical fighting is well described in the book "a bright and shining lie". Then JFK killed Diem so the US could take over the war. Once thje US took over the south, the north declared a war of liberation, and China and the soviets poured in massive military aid. The US also poured in massive military forces. What was once a limited war, quickly headed toward an a showdown between superpowers.
You ask what MAD has to do with torturing prisoners? Absolutely nothing. MAD is a national military strategy. What does it have to do with torturing of prisoners? You tell me. Eisenhower didnt torture and murder vietnamese prisoners anyway. Ever hear of the Phoenix program? I doubt it. It was run from 1967-1972. Nothing to do with Eisenhower. Eisenhower had few US personell actually in vietnam. JFK was the person who ramped up the number of US personell from the UN mandated 300 to 18000
Let me give you a little advice. Before you open your mouth and totally embarrass yourself, at least take a few minutes to double check it on wikipedia. This stuff is no secret. It is well known. MAD, Taylor's book, JFK's military policies, this is standard stuff. You just pull stuff out of your ass, like Bell Helicopters, and the israeli nuclear program. Complete bullshit. You make it up as you go.
I haven't embarrassed myself. On the contrary, your posts are remarkable for their display of emotional imbalance. Perhaps after you cool down in a day or two you might recognize that and remove them for your own peace of mind. Good luck. Really, go see someone who specializes in mental issues.
Israels nuclear ambitions began in the late 40's and continued until they allowed the news out that they had nuclear weapons in the early 80's. They worked with France for most of the years, then collaborated with South Africa in the 70's and 80's. LBJ gave them the green light my ass. Why would the Israelis be compelled to ask LBJ for "permission"?
the whistleblower was an israeli agent. They wanted to let the world know they had nuclear weapons, but they didnt want to announce it. So they set up a phoney leaker to make it look like he was betraying his country by leaking this news. Actually, it was exactly what the Israeli government wanted. Why dont you know this stuff? Dont you read a newspaper?
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Eisenhower was the best president of the 20th century
sckrbt 8 months ago
brown and root was paid one billion dollars (a lot of money at the time) to dredge cameron bay. look at any conflict from ww2 to afganistan and that hog is feeding at the public trough.
yesgyes 9 months ago
johnson new these tapes would be left to history...just the way he wanted it told.
yesgyes 9 months ago
JFK ordered, LBJ delivered . but of course we have to give the Kennedys credit for everything good beacuse they are "American royalty" "America died when Jack did" blah blah. everything bad of course was that low life red neck LBJ's fault. He simply used JFK's memory. He didnt call senators and pressure them like he did in the senate nooo.of course not! it was all kennedy all hail the kennedys bow down and worship!
pf1030 10 months ago
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THXcooper 8 months ago
It was a disaster for America when Joseph P. Kennedy was born. His kids have been a curse for America.
442Ragtop 1 year ago
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THXcooper 8 months ago
@442Ragtop on what planet?
joshatkins94 7 months ago
LBJ was a red neck shit kicking dumb ass.
gsxrbuckeye 1 year ago
I think Johnson was a way better president than Kennedy. Kennedy said civil rights was politically impossible. It really pisses me off that people credit Kennedy for Civil Rights when it doesn't seem like he did all he could to get it done.
AlecBoy006 1 year ago 2
@AlecBoy006 Johnson was a peace of shit. Not only was he an arrogant bastard who stole elections and twisted truths, he also took credit for Kennedy's domestic program. For the first 2 years in office he fed off the popularity and memory of JFK. And Johnson took all credit for the 64 and 65 civil rights bills. He didnt make them and also opposed civil rights in the past such as the 1957 civil rights bill (kennedy and al gore sr. also opposed that bill). They are all hypocrites.
Willredd94 11 months ago
@AlecBoy006 JFK was a good president but he just didn't have long enough. I think maybe if he lived he wouldn't have been as successful as LBJ was with domestic policy but wouldn't have messed up Vietnam. they were both awesome.
joshatkins94 7 months ago
Eisenhower, while out of office for several years, comes across as very competent here. I think he is vastly under rated as a president.
Derby14 1 year ago
@Derby14 LBJ used to help Nixon too. A lot of the animosity between republicans and democrats is for show. These guys are all close. If people could see how close they really are, somebody might start asking about just how many parties do we have in this country.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
LBJ stripped naked on Air Force One, no matter who was there, including his daughters.One agent said, 'if this guy wasn't president, he'd be in a mental hospital, he's so nutty." He would urinate in front of female reporters at the ranch. He would sit on the toilet and defecate in front of aides.
LineMountain 1 year ago
LBJ's behavior was outlandish. Incidents included having affairs with his secretaries, urinating in public and stripping naked every time he entered Air Force One. Lady Bird caught LBJ having sex with a secretary in the Oval Office.
He blew up at the Secret Service and said, 'you should have warned me she was coming,' and he insisted they install a buzzer system to warn him the next time that Lady Bird was in the vicinity.
LineMountain 1 year ago
Eisenhower commanded such resepect he even got that big mouth Johnson to shut up and listen.
bigjoetube 2 years ago 3
It's not so much that Kennedy didn't care about domestic policy he barely won and had no mandate to do anything. The southerners in congress at the time also held up his civil rights bill and his health care bill (medicare). LBJ used JFK's memory to get these bills strengthened, passed through congress, and incorporated them into the Great Society. The war on poverty was LBJ's idea.
crackmonster99 2 years ago 12
@crackmonster99 LOL the war on pverty was a cause that JFK engineered and LBJ hated the kennedys because THOSE were not good for business and its why the son of a bitch aided in JFKs death theres plenty of videos on his old staff talking on him for the piece of shit he was lol he cared shit about poverty please lol!
kahetel13 1 year ago
@kahetel13 The war on poverty was a JFK idea I just finished a book explaining just that but JFK was going to limit it to Kentucky. LBJ expanded it to the whole country. Believe it or not LBJ did care about poor people and wasn't comfortable around ivy leaguers. He had a tendency to bully his subordinates and couldn't keep people on his staff long because of his temper. That more than anything else is why former LBJ staffers talk down on their former boss.
crackmonster99 1 year ago
@crackmonster99 ok so you just stated he bullied his subordinates and couldnt keep people on his staff long ? he was a arrogant and temper driven killer thanks for confirming his temper and no i dont believe he cared about the poor not really
kahetel13 1 year ago
@crackmonster99 No, JFK couldnt get anything done because he was green. LBJ spent his entire life in congress, and he was known for getting things done. He knew how to push legislation through congress. He knew the players, and he knew what it took to make a deal. JFK had absolutely no track record, no experience. LBJ was highly qualified and had a record of success in congress. He was speaker of the house.
Jellolion1 8 months ago
@Jellolion1 everything you said was correct except that he was never speaker. LBJ was majority leader in the senate before becoming vp.
crackmonster99 8 months ago
@crackmonster99 yes you are correct. Good catch. The bottom line was that LBJ knew his way around congress.
Jellolion1 8 months ago
@crackmonster99 WAR on poverty? haha just youtube Bill Hicks JFK. WAR, WAR, bankers WARS! you sheeple.
ha38bb1 7 months ago
@crackmonster99 or just listen to Guns and Roses Civil war. Listen to the fuckin lyrics, You ignorant cunts.
ha38bb1 7 months ago
@crackmonster99 Well apparently Kennedy had written the words "War on Poverty" on a scrap of paper for ideas for his reelection but I will concede to you that LBJ made it his own crusade.
jerzy862 2 months ago
Breaking news: There are crazy people on the Internet
lol
luluxinhapr 2 years ago
Interesting that Ike calls Johnson "Mr. President". Today it is protocal for Presidents and former Presidents to call each other, in private, by their first names. Clinton and Bush are "Bill and George" which each other, and both call President Obama by his first name in private.
proken58 2 years ago
How we rewrite history. All the evidence says that Kennedy was on his way to do the same things in Vietnam that LBJ had to do when he took over. We must remember JFK oversaw Diem's death.
brnsimpson 2 years ago
JFK was assured by the South Vitenamese military that the November 1963 coup would be bloodless and Diem would be exiled to Burma or Thailand, not executed. When Diem was killed, he felt lied to and was rethinking U.S. policy in Vietnam when he, Kennedy, was killed.
proken58 2 years ago
really. did he tell you this?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
@proken58 simply not true. There wasnt even a single person that could speak for "the south vietnamese military" at that time, as you say. Secondly, the plan left the question of what to do with Diem and Nhu up to the viet generals, but the state department did direct in the final hours "if exhile is decided upon, under no circumstances would the Nhu's be allowed to stay in asia." So geez, you are just totally wrong on all accounts. Care to say where you get your bad information?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
American propaganda, most certainly. It wouldn't suprise me if this was the official version taught in American schools.
Dragolaa 2 years ago
not only did JFK plan and carry out the coup, the question needs to be asked and understood-why did he do this? Did he do this because he was getting ready to withdraw? Why didnt he then withdraw when he had so many opportunities to do so? When Diem and Nhu asked him to pull the troops out? JFK carried out the coup because he wanted the US to have complete control over the prosecution of the war. This was another step in his massive escalation. The step thjat sealed our fate.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
My best friends uncle was the mayor of Da Nang. His other uncle was an officer in the military police. He tracked down communist agents. He wrote a book about it. His name is Lien Thanh. He is all over vietnamese youtube. Look it up.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
In his book, he talks about how every time he captured a communist agent, he was ordered by some high up authority to release them. He discovered the vietcong were based in the basements of the buddhist pagodas, and some priests were actually high level vietcong operatives. He found loads of materiel, and communications equipment, in rooms under the pagodas, but he couldnt do anything about it.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Ike said the US military should stay out of vietnam. But when Kennedy got into office, he began ramping up US involvement. A quote from a JFL speech in 1963, shortly before Dallas, where he is boasting about his increases in military spending "we have increased american fighting forces in vietnam by 600%. Put that on a banner."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Ike knew to focus on the political side of the equation, not the military side. He set up south Vietnam, and put in a stable political leadership. JFK focused almost exclusively on the military side of things, and looked the other direction and the corrupt group of infighting generals, former french military members, who didnt care about civilian casualities, and only looked to benefit themselves. No military force can save that kind of political system that totally lost popular support.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Kennedy was a good and solid man. It was a disaster for America that he was killed.
Enslaved10 2 years ago 9
yeah. a good solid man. affairs all over the place, even with women connected to the mob, poor decision making and lack of experience. Bay of Pigs. Putting missiles in Turkey, Cuban missile crisis. Assasination of Diem. Killing all those poor farmers in Laos, sealing our fate in vietnam, coverup of his own disease that made him unable to handle any kind of stress. Wow, a good solid man?
Jellolion1 2 years ago 3
You have an agenda. You wanna smear President Kennedy. I thought you loved him like everybody else. He`s an icon in the democratic party. You failed to mention any of his successes. I hate people like you. Screw u!
Enslaved10 2 years ago
can you mention any of his successes?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
and I think people like you are just soft in the head. Making JFK out to be a hero when in actuality he did so much damage to this country. And there is LBJ, who accomplished so much from civil rights to the Great Society, and you totally ignore him. Even worse, people like you attribute some of his accomplishments to JFK. Wishful thinking I guess.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Every success of LBJ was Kennedys idea. The war on poverty was Kenndys idea, Civil rights was Kennedys idea and plan. So there you go!
Enslaved10 2 years ago
oh please. every success was Kennedy's idea??? Did people stop using their brains in this country? Kennedy didnt give a shit about civil rights or domestic policy. That was LBJ's focus. Go ahead and tell me Great Society was JFK's idea. And voting rights act? JFK's idea? Then why didnt he do anything when he was in office? He was busy thinking up all these great ideas that he didnt have any time to take any actions??
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Who federalized the alabama national army so that black students could attend college?? He was probably killed for that action. You don`t seem to have a clue on JFK so why do you bother?
Enslaved10 2 years ago 2
Ike sent in National Guard troops to Little ock. Does that make him the civil rights president? You make it sound so dramatic. JFK was not interested in civil rights. If he was, there was so much he could have done. LBJ was interested in civil rights, and look at what he did about it. JFK was acting predictably, the macho man president responding to a challenge to the federal government, which he interpreted as a challenge to his manhood. Civil rights had little to do with it.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
@Jellolion1 JFK had james meridith enroll at ole miss.
LittleVinnyCock 1 year ago
You are right. JFK didn't care about Civil Rights...Bobby may have, but not JFK. LBJ formed his Great Society with good intentions. Most of his programs were updated versions of Roosevelts Fair Deal, which Johnson got his start working as an aide on. While he may have taken a few things from JFK's Presidency, the Great Society was all LBJ. Hopefully history will start showing this and when people think about Civil Rights, they put a picture of LBJ right next to MLK.
dannyd1572 2 years ago
I can imaging LBJ turning over in his grave every time somone calls JFK the civil rights president, and pegs LBJ as being responsible for the vietnam war.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
LBJ was a initially a teacher who taught black children in the desolete areas of Texas. He had a compassion for them. To pass two major Civil Rights bills in two years is unimaginable. People should look up all the programs from the Great Society and see how many we use today still. Head start, school lunch programs, and truth in labeling (food manufacturers have to put on labels stating what is in the food). Things you don't even think about were LBJ's Great Society programs.
dannyd1572 2 years ago
LBJ changed was the most effective president of the 20th century. Nobody did more than LBJ. He passed major laws on civil rights, education, housing, and even health care, all in his first 2 years. If he hadnt gotten stuck with JFK's vietnam mess, it would be LBJ's face on the money. JFK called all economically disadvantaged people "poor suckers". He couldnt get anything done because he was too busy with his weekly drunken orgies by the white house pool.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Your right. Kennedy was pretty much just an image who's looks brought elegance to the White House. Bobby was a lot of the brains behind JFK (ooh didn't mean it to sound that way) but you know what I mean. Bobby and Teddy were more for the down trodden and for those who never got a fair shake in life. If not for Nam, LBJ's Great Society could have changed the world. The major bills he passed: Medicaid-Medicare and two civil rights bills in two years, were all voted down by by republicans.
dannyd1572 2 years ago
@dannyd1572 I like this guy.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 You have always been stubborn in praising Johnson and will always be.
celtazeezee1 1 year ago
Truman was the Fair Deal
bigjoetube 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 JFK didn't serve a term in office so we don't know what he would have done.
LittleVinnyCock 1 year ago
@LittleVinnyCock JFK served 3/4ths of his term, so we do have a very good indication what he would have done in his last year in office. Civil rights-nothing. More delaying, more stalling. Vietnam war-he would have followed through with the continutation of his MASSIVE escalation and americanization of the war. He most likely would NOT have waited until 1965 to send in US troops as LBJ did. He would have done it in the chaos after his coup. After all, that was the purpose of his coup.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
LBJ initiated and pushed through more civil rights legislation than any other presidident in the history of this country. But wait, how little did we know? It was all JFK's ideas. Wow. Who would have guessed? All the time JFK spent lounging around the pool,smoking cigars and cavorting with the whores brought in when Jackie was out, he was actually thinking up the entire domestic agenda of the future president , LBJ. He was so generous, saving his best ideas for LBJ.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
everything JFK got in life came tohim onm a silver platter from Daddy. He wanted to be a PT boat captain, he got it. The first time he saw combat, he made so many mistakes, and sunk the boat. How does a speedy, nimble PT boat get rammed by a destroyer anyway? Couldnt manage to get off a single torpedo. And because of that, he is made a war hero....by Daddy.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
@Jellolion1 George W. Bush was the same way as JFK
LittleVinnyCock 1 year ago
@LittleVinnyCock Respond to this video...Gen Maxwell Taylor - "Kennedy repeatedly emphasized the desire to utilize the siuation in Vietnam to study and test the techniques and equipment of counterinsurgency, and hence he insisted on exposing our most promising officers to servicein Vietnam." Face it, Kennedy was a gung ho cold warrior, and he massively escalatd in Vietnam from the beginning of his term. Kennedy WANTED to fight in Vietnam. LBJ wanted anything BUT a war in Vietnam.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 Was JFK in your opinion a good president?
LittleVinnyCock 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 looking back at history that makes NO sense. Vietnam escalated because the illuminati regained power. Come on...
Rawmodel 1 year ago
@Rawmodel watch?v=DeNv_62v6WQ&feature=related have a look at that Johnson admits they started Vietnam
MILLSTREETMED 1 year ago
@Jellolion1 wow you really have no idea do you. Look at Kennedys speech on secret govnt. Kennedy was stated he was gonna tear the cia into 1000 pieces and make the dollar backed by silver and close the federal reserve. The war in vietnam was caused by the cia he did what he had to than when he saw it was all a lie he changed and was calling out the secrete society in govnt that caused these issues. Johnson was part of the kennedy murder plan and simple. he was the head of the coup of the times.
MILLSTREETMED 1 year ago
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THXcooper 8 months ago
@THXcooper a vid? You want a vid? You think these clips on youtube actually have any truth or accuracy to them? Sorry, I cant provide you the spoon fed little clip to make you feel comfortable. But if it is documents that you are after, why not go to the US archives website? You can read all of JFK's meeting notes involving escalation of the war, and leading up to the murder of Diem. Thats what the K brothers spent most of their time on, screwy black ops planning, and bimbos.
Jellolion1 8 months ago
Respond to this video... while you are there, you can compare to LBJ's meeting records and see what he spent most of his time on, successfully moving forward civil rights and the great society, and leaving a legacy that lasts to this day.
Jellolion1 8 months ago
@Jellolion1 and killing 58,ooo thousand troops.LBJ knew the war was unwinnable but was stubborn and didn't want to show weakness.In 1968 LBJ quit in vietnam and resign the presidency in disgrace.
LittleVinnyCock 1 year ago
@LittleVinnyCock thank you for that. Did you think we were not aware of that. LBJ hated the war in vietnam. He was pushed into it by politics. As LBJ said, he ws damned if he did, damned if he didnt. McNamara knew how to play on LBJ's emotions and push his buttons. McNamara went one litttle step at a time, to ultimately succeed in his master plan of getting LBJ to send in massive numbers of troops.
Jellolion1 1 year ago
@LittleVinnyCock JFK would have sent in the troops even soner than LBJ. The cornerstone of JFK's military policy was to embrace the book "The Silent Trumpet",by Gen Taylor, which favored building up conventional troops to fight what he called "limited wars" in thrid world countries. This was wwhat was exactly behind his escalation in Vietnam. Vietnam was to be JFK's showcase of "limited war".
Jellolion1 1 year ago
hmmm ...... good rhetoric, these days i tend to reflect same ..... myth making of a slain president .... truth is he was juggling some very pissed alliances from hoover to LBJ and the south to the mafia to the military industrial complex to the ruskies and cubans ..... pure mineland ..... its a wonder he wasnt shot before taking office ..... and if that happened ... well ....
MrDoublehappy 2 years ago
forgot about the drug addiction(s)
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Compared to the scumbag who suceeded him your right.
bigjoetube 2 years ago
@Enslaved10 can you say CIA???? youtube Bill Hicks JFK. and WAKE THE FUCK UP
ha38bb1 7 months ago
Kassandracomplex quote, cut and pasted "As for the CIA under Eisenhower, Stanley Sheinbaum has admitted that the CIA was infiltrating the Saigon police force in 1956 I believe."
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK was killing 600 civilians a week by his indescriminate bombing of civilian hamlets by the VNAF, the vietnamese air force, consisting of american planes and air force pilots. Where is the outrage about that? JFK cant do anything bad? What about his coup that created the quagmire in vietnam? How about his indescriminate bombing in Laos, killing thousands of poor farmers?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
During the JFK administration, the CIA tried to drop ARVN special forces soldiers into north vietnam. They dropped hundreds of them into the north, but after they dropped them in, they would never hear anything back. Years later, they found out that every single one was killed. Because they wore shoes, and not the sandals that were popular in the north, they were immediately recogized. It took the CIA years to figure this out, and hundreds of soldiers were killed.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Jellolion1, you have emotional issues. Take a day off and then remove your embarrassing posts. You'll feel better. And read about Sheinbaum and the CIA in Vietnam under Eisenhower, NOT Kennedy. Eisenhower's TORTURE of Vietcong had nothing to do with MAD. But the fact he did it contradicts your statement that Eisenhower "exclusively relied on MAD". That is your patently ridiculous quote.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
whats wrong? never saw the facts before? Spend all your time around JFK fairy tale believers? Eisenhowers torture of vietcong? horseshit. We didnt really start getting involved in the real combat missions until the kennedy administration. Read John Paul Vann. Trying to blame it on Eisenhower, and somehow keeping Kennedy out of the picture is pure JFK propaganda. JFK got us into the vietnam war. Go back to reading fairy tales. Obviously you cant handle the truth.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Why are you so hung up on Eisenhower torturing vietcong? The war escalated exponentially after Eisenhower left office and JFK came in. You are some kind of anti Eisenhower goofball. Ike told us to stay out of vietnam. JFKJ didnt listen and got us in the quagmire by killing Diem.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
after JFK's goons got rid of Diem, they went after all of Diems relatives, hunted them down and killed them all. They went after every regional governor, and deposed them. A lot of torturing and killing going on then. The country was in chaos, and the vietcong made some huge victories during this time. Lodge came back to washington and told LBJ "vietnam has gone to hell in a handbasket. The will to fight has died with Diem".
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Eisenhower relied soley on MAD, you stupid dolt. All of our Navy ships and air force had only nuclear weapons on board during those years. Anybody with a brain knows this. Tell me, where did Eisenhower send our troops to fight a conventional war? He didnt do it, because he was relying soley on MAD. JFK reversed this policy, as he pured money into the Army and special forces, and conventional weapons.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
calling Ike a murderer because he won ww2. Now I see what kind of screwball we have here. Focusing on Ikes activities in vietnam when JFK scaled it up 100 times from Ike. You dont think JFK had the CIA in Vietnam? How do you think he murdered Diem. JFK knew he was going to hell, because he murdered a fellow catholic. Ho Chi Minh said it was the stupidest thing the US ever did. The murder of Diem was the action that got us into the quagmire in vietnam.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
kassandracomplex, you are obviously a left wing fool, who thinks anything the US did to protect its interest in the world was evil. Why do you think you have such an easy life? Because people like Ike secured our freedom and prosperity. Ike is a hero, not a murderer. Unfortunately JFK blew it big time. Sticking LBJ with the huge mess he created. JFK murdered the strongest leader of south vietnam, the only independent voice of vietnam. The beginning of the quagmire.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
There is a book called "legacy of ashes" that describes the history of the CIA. During the early years of the war, nobody in the CIA could even speak vietnamese. They knew nothing about vietnam. Infiltrating the saigon police so they could torture vietcong prisoners??? That is so stupid. The south vietnamese didnt need any help torturing communists, and the CIA never successfully infiltrated anything in vietnam. Never. They infiltrated the american- U Mich organization. .
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Sheinbaum was probably a CIA asset. The whole U. Mich. project failed anyway, like everything else the CIA tried to do in Vietnam. Diem got fed up with them and kicked them out of the country. Trying to infiltrate the Saigon police - ha ha , how did you ever come up with that? The CIA were all white, upper class americans. How could they ever have fit in with the Saigon police??? You are not too smart, are you?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"Trying to infiltrate the Saigon police - ha ha , how did you ever come up with that?"
Why don't you go talk to Stanley Sheinbaum about it since you're a genius of his caliber. And it was Eisenhower who authorized the assassination attempts against Castro, through Sidney Gottlieb.Your insults and mental imbalance bore me. You suffer cranio rectal blockage. Bore me no more please.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
thats what you said
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The Kennedy administration set up the VNAF- the vietnamese air force - american planes, US air forcre pilots. They ran the war like a business, and every branch of the service wanted a piece of JFK's new business line, especially the air force. They could keep these air bases locked up and away from the press.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
As John Paul Vann described, the targets they hit were almost exclusively civilian hamlets. The air Force officers didnt care to go out in the field to see what they were hitting, like Vann did. Besides, that would be bad for business. In mid 1962, they were killing 600 civilians per week in their bombing runs.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Why should I go talk to a cia asset piece of crap like Sheinbaum? You read 1 (one) book and you think you know everything about the vietnam war. I have read every book I can get my hands on, for the past 20 years, and my best freinds here are all vietnamese. I have been to vietnam several times. What about you? You know nothing. Some of my freinds are former south vietnamese officers, some were former communists collaboraters. I know all of them. What about you? One book. Ha.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
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Jellolion1 2 years ago
another kassandracomplex quote: "Eisenhower introduced the CIA into Vietnam and they were torturing and killing back in the 50s when Stanley Sheinbaum was staffing the Saigon police force riddled with CIA plants". Tell me more about how the CIA was infiltrating the Saigon police with "CIA plants". What a stupid load of bullshit. Sheinbaum was the CIA asset, and it was the U Mich organization that was infiltrated by the CIA, not the Saigon police force, you stupid dolt.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Sheinbaum was part of a Mich State Univ organization to advise the Diem government. Later it was revealed that they were infiltrated and being run by the CIA. Nevertheless, Diem had goten fed up with them and kicked them out of the country anyway. The CIA most certainly did not "infiltrate the saigon police". That is laughable. They infiltrated the amercan MSU organization. The real question is how did a group of so called amercan intellectuals became stoodges for the CIA?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Sheinbaum ... landing a teaching job at Michigan State University in 1954. There, he landed a position as co-director of the Vietnam Project, as well. His responsibilities as part of the Vietnam Project included hiring men to travel to South Vietnam and set up a police force, but during a trip to Saigon Sheinbaum realized that not only had he unknowingly become a puppet for the CIA, but that his own men were using torture techniques to interrogate Vietcong prisoners as well.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
After the French lost, Ike was getting a lot of pressure to go into Vietnam. He sent Ridgeway to analyze the situation, then said NO WAY, because 1) the climate and terrain 2) it was an irregular war 3) they didnt have the support of the population. JFK went straight into vietnam as soon as he got into office. He spent all of 1963 planning the coup, because Diem didnt want US troops in vietnam. JFK wanted the US to take complete control of the war, so he had to get rid of Diem.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Sidney Gottlieb, an Eisenhower murderer and likely a murderer of American scientist Frank Olson. Eisenhower was a murderer, that's how he won WW2. And it was Eisenhower who first began the American atrocities in Vietnam.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
Eisenhower won world war 2 because he was a murderer? Thats just precious. I suppose you would rather have left the nazis and japanese win. Eisenhower was a smart man. He kept us out of trouble, until that inexperienced goofball came into office and sent us straight into one quagmire after another. JFK and RFK's favorite pastime was to dream up some screwball ideas for covert actions against the cubans and castro, not to mention Laos and vietnam.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"March 1960, under The Cuban Project, a CIA plan approved by President Eisenhower and under the direction of CIA Directorate for Plans, Richard M. Bissell, Gottlieb came up with ideas to spray Fidel Castro's television studio with LSD and to saturate Castro's shoes with thallium so that the hair of his beard would fall out. Gottlieb also hatched schemes to assassinate Castro, including the use of a poisoned cigar, a poisoned wetsuit, an exploding conch shell, and a poisonous fountain pen."
wiki
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
wow... fascinating...
rowdy916 2 years ago
I believe the first American soldier to die at the hands of nationalist Vietnamese units was in 1945 in an ambush. The introduction of the CIA and the killings and torture began under Eisenhower. Don't forget, Eisenhower was responsible (along with MacArthur) for the most obscene affront to the American military in history, the attack on the Bonus Marchers 1932) In this tape we hear Ike talking about how he'd use nukes if he felt he had to. Ike was a killer. Patrice Lamumba found that out.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
You make some good points Kassandra, but you exaggerate your point. Ike was not president in 1945 after all, Truman was. Truman was the first to begin American involvement in Vietnam.
Also, Ike was McArthur's subordinate during the attack on the Bonus Marchers. It's unfair to blame him for this, when he was obeying the orders of his superior. You make it sound like it was his idea. Remember too the CIA, although in contact with the President, used to do a lot largely unsupervised.
rmm413c 2 years ago
There is actually a video clip here on You Tube showing MacArthur at the Bonus assault (theyactually used tanks on starving American vets!!!!) and in the video I believe you can see Eisenhower standing next to Mac. His back is turned but it appears to be him. I guess he could always have used the Nuremburg Defense...
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
Yes I exaggerate slightly but I'm tired of people praising Ike as though he was a grandfatherly type. One could argue that American involvement in Vietnam began in 1840 when Admiral White (was it? Memory is rough here...) first sailed into the Delta in Anaam or whatever they called it then. The CIA there was Eisenhowers however, installed I believe by Stanley Sheinbaum into the Saigon police force, over which Sheinbaum had hiring power. (Sheinbaum incredulously denied knowing what he was doing)
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
Yes, Kassandracomplex likes to exaggerate. Ding dong. Almost everything you have said so far has been completey wrong. Like LBJ directing nuclear weapons research in Israel? Idiot.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Yes, kassandracomplex likes to exaggerate. Her specialty is making up facts, like saying LBJ had the power to stop the Israeli nuclear program. Like saying Bell Helicopters got their military contract from LBJ. Bell put jet turbines on the helicopters, making them into military tools of unimagainable capability. Only a fool would ignore their capability.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
lbj was so full of shit
MsSunlover 2 years ago
all of them wrong about the war LBJ even admitted it so did McNamara
MsSunlover 2 years ago
I believe there were advisers in Nam under Ike's administration.
JoesRambles 2 years ago 2
By 1953 the USA was paying 78% of Frances total costs in Indochina!
It is funny how Ike is clear about "winning" - Which is the complete & utter antithesis of LBJ's policy of "gradual escalation" (which led to so much suffering & death)
LBJ has got to be one of the South's most corrupt & duplicitous political figures
sugarpuddin88 2 years ago
LBJ was never convinced that the US involvement was going to achieve anything. He was very careful to avoid attacking large centers of population in the North, because he was afraid of another Korean war, with millions of chinese coming over the border. Most of the"suffering and death" came from Nixon, who had no qualms about bombing cities and killing large numbers of civilians. And just as LBJ had predicted, it accomplished nothing.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
@Jellolion1 Than wtf is LBJ doing in Vietnam if he doesn't want to win?Either win the fuckin war or not go at all.That LBJ was a 2 face cock sucker.
LittleVinnyCock 1 year ago
Never heard LBJ stay silent so long to listen to anyone.Ike wasn't LBJ's predecessor though,JFK was.BTW wolf8503 it did sound like he blew a honker.
gizdor20 2 years ago 2
LBJ was not above murder (he had his own sister killed). He was in on the assassination & he engineered the cover up. He had the most to gain & the most to lose because he was going to be dumped from the ticket in 1964 as a result of another justice department investigation into Bobby Baker's activities that would have exposed LBJ to a criminal indictment. JFK thought he could give up Texas as long as he could win California. The political battle turned into a blood feud.
045781 2 years ago
Well, it sounds to me like Ike is aiding and abetting Johnson's hawkishness.
gnolti 2 years ago
Ike was a 4 star general!
jchris723 2 years ago
Ike died a 5 star general (General Of The Army). This was the rank he was re-instated to by JFK after he left the presidency in 1960.
thej762000 2 years ago 2
Wow Amazing ! This proves my Theory about Ike
and The Johnson Admin. and Icke still having a
say so in the Vietnam war!
*****
DiegoHarmon 3 years ago
Yeah its the sound of the dictabelt rotating.
esb84 3 years ago
Good old IKE!!!!
he never would have gotten us into that damn war. He was just too savvy,experienced and smart!! (the same for iraq!!!!)
hr
mollie32303 3 years ago 6
Yet, he was the first President to send advisors into French Vietnam...hmmm... That being said, I know what you are saying though. Johnson wanted to be FDR and win a war of his own.
jpzollar 3 years ago
Some of the seeds of that war were planted under Ike's presidency. The US was involved in Vietnam in some way a longer than just the actual hot war.
JoesRambles 2 years ago
The first person to put troops into vietnam was JFK. JFK had 18000 troops in vietnam. Diem didnt want them there. Finally they agreed to no more than 12,000, yet JFK had 18000 troops there. Nhu, vietnam sec of defense, said he was tired of US soldiers entering vietnam illegally, not paying any attention to the laws of south vietnam, and operating at will. Diem and Nhu didnt live much longer after thjey expressed their opinions on the american troops. JFK had them killed.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Kenndy was planning to pull the troops out. Johnson reversed Kenndys plans and increased the troops. Johnson was a disaster!
Enslaved10 2 years ago
The vietnam war turned after JFK's coup. JFK organized the coup in 1963, and carried it out in Nov 1963, to usurp the power from Diem. Diem wanted the americans out of vietnam. JFK wanted to have the ultimate authority on running the war, so he had Diem and Nhu killed, and he put in incompetent american puppets. This allowed the ameicanization and expansion of the war.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
UPDATE: LBJ adimtted killing Diem on one of these tapes.
will4ward 2 years ago
oh really. idiot.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Actually, Will, I've heard that conversation before and considering the context, I've always thought it obvious that when he said "we" had Diem killed that we meant we in the Kennedy administration (esp since he complains about it). LBJ as VP wouldn't have had the power to direct the CIA to carry out coups. Kennedy's tapes, however, show that he authorized the Diem Coup, but they don't indicate that he intended Diem to be murdered. LBJ and Nixon (who got info from J. Edg Hoover) thought JFK did.
rmm413c 2 years ago
organizing and staging a coup in south vietnam, and pinning your hopes on men like "the generals," whose only goals were being able to enrich themselves with the governments money, this is the equivalent of driving drunk on the freeway. You cant absolve yourself from the consequenses. And the worst was not the deaths of Diem and Nhu. The worst was the total destabilization of the government, and the huge advances made by the communists during this time, from which the south never recovered.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
watch?v=5FiKVcmNqOY&feature=related The fog of war. pres LBJ says to MacNamara "how can you say you are pulling men out when you were losing the war?" JFK wanted to pull out 6% of the troops in vietnam. It was just for show. It was insignificant number of troops. JFK carried out the coup in order to take over the government of south vietnam and take full control of the war.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
JFK made no indication that he would withdraw - The AP press piece on the Honolulu conference gave no indication he would withdraw; nor did Excerpts from briefing book prepared for the November 1963 Honolulu Conference on Vietnam
Once Diem & his brothers were dead, from that time on, it was probably inevitable that Washington would commit American combat forces to South Vietnam, although LBJ held back until March 1965
Four years later, it became clear that 550,000 US troops weren't helping
sugarpuddin88 2 years ago 3
kennedy was planning to pull the troops out? yeah he was, after the war was over.
Jellolion1 2 years ago 2
Actually Kennedy was about to pull the troops and Robert McNamarra (who was a truly loyal honorable man if you do the silghtest unbiased research about him) acknowledged this in the documentary "Fog of War". Eisenhower introduced the CIA into Vietnam and they were torturing and killing back in the 50s when Stanley Sheinbaum was staffing the Saigon police force riddled with CIA plants. The Kennedy's are not here because they were true progressives. Vietnam was a GOP operation early on.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
boy you really bought the load of shit. JFK was not involved because he was a true progressive? What about the coup he spent all of 1963 planning, and resulted in the death of Diem. He carried out this coup so the US could get control of the war. Diem didnt want the americans in vietnam. If JFK really wanted out, wouldnt that have been the perfect time to exit??? JFK didnt want out. That is bullshit, and he said as much in his cronkite interview.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
so the cia wasnt involved when JFK was president??? What makes you think that the cia wasnt doing the same thing during the JFK administration? You believe the manufactured image of JFK, that everything bad was done by people pulling the wool over the eyes of JFK. Its so much horseshit. Do you really think JFK could have been that stupid? JFK was running the show. He was commander in chief. There are loads of evidence, hard evidence, to show that JFK was the key planner and supporter of the coup
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I believe the CIA was involved in Vietnam during JFK's administration. All I was pointing out is that people have a falsely benevolent image of Ike who was the progenitor of the CIA's involvement in Vietnam. As for the "manufactured image of JFK, I believe the negative image most Americans have of him is manufactured from years of what they call "blaming the dead guy" politics. The MSM has had little good to say about him for decades, unfairly I think.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
The CIA was involved in vietnam???? How did you come to that conclusion? Do you find that suprising? What do you think the role of the CIA is anyways?? Most Americans have a positive image of Ike and a negative image of JFK??? (they are both dead by the way). What country are you from???
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Kennedy was about to pull the troops? You mean the 18000 troops that he started escalating over the UN mandate of 300 the minute he got into office? At what point was he going to pull the troops? After he destroyed the government by his coup, assasinated Diem, and drove the country into complete chaos? Is that when he was planning on pulling out the troops?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
How do I come to the conclusion the CIA was involved in Vietnam? Stanley Sheinbaum and his efforts at staffing the Saigon PD mid 50s. That's when the CIA started their horrors. I believe McNamarra's assertion that Kennedy had decided to begin the withdrawal, simultaneous with his efforts to halt Israel's nuke program. Chaos reigned by the time Ike left office, Kennedy didn't cause that. Talk to Vietnamese as I have personally about the UN colonial bisection of their country.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
macnamara, the person that assembled stories of us servicement being tortured and murdered by the vietcong, in order to convince LBJ to start the bombing campaign? And of course once the bombing started, you had to send in marines to protect the air bases. And once the marines go in, if someone starts shooting at them, they will attack back. So they will need to be supplement by armytroops. unbiased research my ass. Read Dan Ellsberg's book.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
At least one of those stories was true. But LBJ needed no coaxing. Texas congressman LBJ, Vietnam escalation, Bell Helicopters Fort Worth Texas, I've always thought a connection there. He also gave Israel a green light to go nuclear and increased military funding after Kennedy was murdered. Minus Kennedy, escalation went turbo charged and Israel went nuclear.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
Bell Helicopters, Ft worth Texas??? All you have are coincidences. Tell me you really believe the president of the US is involved in military procurement, not only in quantities, but choosing specific weapons systems?? You have obviously never worked for the government before. You think the president can just call up the military and say hey, why dont you order up a few hundred thousand helicopters. The decision to go with helicopters was in the works for a long time, long before LBJ.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The Bell Helicoptors first went into service in Vietnam in 1962. The idea to use helicoptors for army air mobile was hatched in the Kennedy administration. It certainly had nothing to do with the vice president at the time.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
Israel would not have asked for, or listened to anything LBJ had to say regarding Israels ability to defend itself. The Israel nuclear program started in 1949. The US had inspectors in Israel throughout the 60's. Israel got their nuclear program going by cooperation with the French, buying parts from west Germany, and stealing and smuggling whatever they couldnt buy legally.Israel and France had a mutual enemy-Egypt.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
LBJ increased military funding after JFK was murdered? Major wars tend to have that effect. But LBJ's immediate focus after the assasination was the war on poverty. When the war began to heat up, he was very dissapointed that the vietnam war took funding away from his great society programs.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
tell me, what exactly was JFK doing to prevent Israel from developing nuclear weapons. Israel certainly didnt slow down when JFK was in office. You make it sound like Israel answered to JFK, and JFK was preventing Israel from working on its nuclear program, that it started with France in 1949. Are you making this stuff up???
Jellolion1 2 years ago
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Jellolion1 2 years ago
the whole idea to fight in vietnam came from Kennedy and Taylor. Taylor wrote a book on limited warfare in 1959, and Kennedy embraced it and adopted it as the cornertone of his military policy. Eisenhower relied exclusively on mutually assured destruction. But Kennedy said we want to fight these "small" wars , and he poured the money into the army, and embraced technologies such as bell helicopters to use in vietnam.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"Eisenhower relied exclusively on mutually assured destruction."
And the tortured and murdered Vietnamese under Eiesenhower done by the CIA? Where does that fit into MAD? Never mind. I don't really care what you think. Your bias is palapable and obviously flawed. Please don't respond. I will not respond to you.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
You never hear of MAD, mutually assured destruction? It was the cornerstone of our cold war policity for many years, you stupid dolt. Why did you reply if you dont want to hear what it is? The Eisenhower administration military policy was based on MAD. He cut funding to conventional forces, like the army, and put all the funding into the air force. Kennedy reversed this because he wanted to fight want he called "limited wars". He based his military policy on Maxwell Taylors book.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
General Maxwell Taylor, wrote a book in 1959 that embraced "limited warfare". Taylor was the top guy in vietnam under JFK. JFK embraced his book, and made it part of his 1960 campaign platform. When he got into office, he poured funding back into the army, and invented "special forces" like the seals, green berets, etc to fight one of these limited wars, in vietnam. Most military people were totally opposed and said there was no such thing as a "limited war".
Jellolion1 2 years ago
The policy of limited war, or "flexible response" was undoubtedly on JFK's mind from the beginning of his administration, when he tried to use it on Cuba in the bay of pigs, and failed miserably. The problem, according to most of JFK's advisors, is there is no such thing as a limited war. Once one side starts losing, they escalate, then the other side escalates. JFK didnt learn his lesson, because this desribes the vietnam war exactly.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I don't think you could correctly answer why Kennedy pulled the air support at the Bay of Pigs. Oh, and the lead assassin who allegedly contrived all the Castro plots undr Kennedy? Sidney Gotlieb and they were contrived under Eisenhower. Kennedy very likely might not even have known about them at first. March 1960. Get yer facts straight buckaroo.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
under Diem, the war was fairly low key. Typical fighting is well described in the book "a bright and shining lie". Then JFK killed Diem so the US could take over the war. Once thje US took over the south, the north declared a war of liberation, and China and the soviets poured in massive military aid. The US also poured in massive military forces. What was once a limited war, quickly headed toward an a showdown between superpowers.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
You ask what MAD has to do with torturing prisoners? Absolutely nothing. MAD is a national military strategy. What does it have to do with torturing of prisoners? You tell me. Eisenhower didnt torture and murder vietnamese prisoners anyway. Ever hear of the Phoenix program? I doubt it. It was run from 1967-1972. Nothing to do with Eisenhower. Eisenhower had few US personell actually in vietnam. JFK was the person who ramped up the number of US personell from the UN mandated 300 to 18000
Jellolion1 2 years ago
"Eisenhower didnt torture and murder vietnamese prisoners anyway. "
Wrong again. Sheinbaum has already acknowledged this. Years before Kennedy was president. You have emotional issues really.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
Let me give you a little advice. Before you open your mouth and totally embarrass yourself, at least take a few minutes to double check it on wikipedia. This stuff is no secret. It is well known. MAD, Taylor's book, JFK's military policies, this is standard stuff. You just pull stuff out of your ass, like Bell Helicopters, and the israeli nuclear program. Complete bullshit. You make it up as you go.
Jellolion1 2 years ago
I haven't embarrassed myself. On the contrary, your posts are remarkable for their display of emotional imbalance. Perhaps after you cool down in a day or two you might recognize that and remove them for your own peace of mind. Good luck. Really, go see someone who specializes in mental issues.
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
Israels nuclear ambitions began in the late 40's and continued until they allowed the news out that they had nuclear weapons in the early 80's. They worked with France for most of the years, then collaborated with South Africa in the 70's and 80's. LBJ gave them the green light my ass. Why would the Israelis be compelled to ask LBJ for "permission"?
Jellolion1 2 years ago
They "allowed" the news out? How long did they imprison their whistleblower?
kassandrasduplex 2 years ago
the whistleblower was an israeli agent. They wanted to let the world know they had nuclear weapons, but they didnt want to announce it. So they set up a phoney leaker to make it look like he was betraying his country by leaking this news. Actually, it was exactly what the Israeli government wanted. Why dont you know this stuff? Dont you read a newspaper?
Jellolion1 2 years ago