@Twistx77 I think smallest trace is a matter of routing bit and not machine itself. I was able to route a track between 0,100" spaced pins on standard PDIP packages, but not able to route two tracks between these pins. I never tried smd with mechanical routing. I think 0,050" spaced pins could be the limit with my routing bits. For 0,025" spaced pins I never tried mechanical routing, but traditional UV exposure + FeCl3 etching.
@ideegeniali Yeah, thats the thing, if I get one, I want one that can make SMD, at least most packages. The problem is price, I found one that seems pretty good , that makes traces of 4 mils but its 6000$ the cheapest version.
@Twistx77 Searching youtube for FTQP, I found this one: video tDkmtq26Hi0 they show routing for a TQFP. They state they used a 10° bits. In fact my routing bits are one 30° and the other 60°. I find myself always using the 30°. Never tried a 10° bit, but after seeing this video, should give it a try in case I succed at putting two traces between 0,100" spaced pins or route for TQFP and other <0,050" spaced pins smds.
@ideegeniali Thank you for all the information. I use the traditional UV metod but when you have to make a two or three boards in a day its awful because of all the time you spend making the board is time that you could be spending doing something more useful. Anyway, thank you again, I'll check the video you suggest.
@Twistx77 UV + Etch is not that bad, believe me! It can do really small traces with high definition. I'm happy with my TSSOP at 0,050" pin spacing. What I hate after UV+Etch is the manual drilling of holes. What I like of CNC routing is that the holes are auto-aligned with the routing. But resolution is poor. What will be my next step? Try to mix the two processes: have an etched pcb aligned and then drilled on cnc. Cnc drilling is fast, while cnc routing is not that fast (etching is faster).
@ideegeniali Yeah, I know, resolution its pretty good I just made today a board with a 80pin TQFP but I have to spend time to make it- With the CNC you just make the files and make it run and then you can do something else. Also as you said the drilling is awful, specially when you have to drill different sizes.
@Twistx77 If you have more than one board to make, usually you can expose the next while etching the previous, and etch the next while drilling the previous. One board only not much to parallel with UV+etch. With cnc you can do something else if you have auto-tool-change. But without ATC, you'll have to stay after the machine for drilling. For routing, it's a very long process yes, you can do something else. A more interesting routing of mines than this vid can be seen here: 98yGQZI2RPc
man a machine like this i need to make my PCBs prototypes, its amazing because you dont need acid , no intoxication no water polution its makes a job clean and fine, its all that i need..
It's not all gold what shines. You have small travel length on this machine, and you can't mill too small traces. But if you don't need small traces or big pcb's, yes, this method is effective.
It is true if you need big pcb's but you can always increase the size of the table without a huge change on the mf70. About the small traces i disagree... if you have the right milling bit you are able to produce small traces. Very small. I have a mf70 cnc and i can mill traces for SSOP-28 (0.65mm).
Correct. I didn't have the suitable drill bits when I did this video:I used 1mm endmill! I tried with good bits 1 month ago: I milled as little as 0,20 mm with 30° drill bits. And I have bigger cnc machine now, no travel lenght issues with them. Milling pcb's is effective and cheaper and even faster than acid for most projects.They're techniques so different, that I think you cannot actually compare them. There's something to learn with each technique to master it.Once done, impressive results!
Visit my site ideegeniali(dot)it. I used EagleCad with a script of mines to generate toolpath based on the design of the electronic board. The Mill is a Proxxon MF70 converted to cnc with a mechanical kit of mines called kiwi. I designed the electronic board myself as well, I called it cobra (2A bipolar chopping), connected to PC via parallel port. On PC mach3 was running, generating steps for the driver based on the toolpath in standard GCode.
Can I sak you, whats the smallest trace you can make with this machine? I need to buy one and I need to know if I coud make 80- pin TQFP foot prints.
Twistx77 9 months ago
@Twistx77 I think smallest trace is a matter of routing bit and not machine itself. I was able to route a track between 0,100" spaced pins on standard PDIP packages, but not able to route two tracks between these pins. I never tried smd with mechanical routing. I think 0,050" spaced pins could be the limit with my routing bits. For 0,025" spaced pins I never tried mechanical routing, but traditional UV exposure + FeCl3 etching.
ideegeniali 9 months ago
@ideegeniali Yeah, thats the thing, if I get one, I want one that can make SMD, at least most packages. The problem is price, I found one that seems pretty good , that makes traces of 4 mils but its 6000$ the cheapest version.
Twistx77 9 months ago
@Twistx77 Searching youtube for FTQP, I found this one: video tDkmtq26Hi0 they show routing for a TQFP. They state they used a 10° bits. In fact my routing bits are one 30° and the other 60°. I find myself always using the 30°. Never tried a 10° bit, but after seeing this video, should give it a try in case I succed at putting two traces between 0,100" spaced pins or route for TQFP and other <0,050" spaced pins smds.
ideegeniali 9 months ago
@ideegeniali Thank you for all the information. I use the traditional UV metod but when you have to make a two or three boards in a day its awful because of all the time you spend making the board is time that you could be spending doing something more useful. Anyway, thank you again, I'll check the video you suggest.
Twistx77 9 months ago
@Twistx77 UV + Etch is not that bad, believe me! It can do really small traces with high definition. I'm happy with my TSSOP at 0,050" pin spacing. What I hate after UV+Etch is the manual drilling of holes. What I like of CNC routing is that the holes are auto-aligned with the routing. But resolution is poor. What will be my next step? Try to mix the two processes: have an etched pcb aligned and then drilled on cnc. Cnc drilling is fast, while cnc routing is not that fast (etching is faster).
ideegeniali 9 months ago
@ideegeniali Yeah, I know, resolution its pretty good I just made today a board with a 80pin TQFP but I have to spend time to make it- With the CNC you just make the files and make it run and then you can do something else. Also as you said the drilling is awful, specially when you have to drill different sizes.
Twistx77 9 months ago
@Twistx77 If you have more than one board to make, usually you can expose the next while etching the previous, and etch the next while drilling the previous. One board only not much to parallel with UV+etch. With cnc you can do something else if you have auto-tool-change. But without ATC, you'll have to stay after the machine for drilling. For routing, it's a very long process yes, you can do something else. A more interesting routing of mines than this vid can be seen here: 98yGQZI2RPc
ideegeniali 9 months ago
good video
Layouts4Facebook 1 year ago
man a machine like this i need to make my PCBs prototypes, its amazing because you dont need acid , no intoxication no water polution its makes a job clean and fine, its all that i need..
guimbadriver 3 years ago
It's not all gold what shines. You have small travel length on this machine, and you can't mill too small traces. But if you don't need small traces or big pcb's, yes, this method is effective.
ideegeniali 3 years ago
It is true if you need big pcb's but you can always increase the size of the table without a huge change on the mf70. About the small traces i disagree... if you have the right milling bit you are able to produce small traces. Very small. I have a mf70 cnc and i can mill traces for SSOP-28 (0.65mm).
Regards
LuisAndre2 3 years ago
Correct. I didn't have the suitable drill bits when I did this video:I used 1mm endmill! I tried with good bits 1 month ago: I milled as little as 0,20 mm with 30° drill bits. And I have bigger cnc machine now, no travel lenght issues with them. Milling pcb's is effective and cheaper and even faster than acid for most projects.They're techniques so different, that I think you cannot actually compare them. There's something to learn with each technique to master it.Once done, impressive results!
ideegeniali 3 years ago
ficata
che bello!
Robertosten 3 years ago
guwnooooooooooooooo
rafal30108 3 years ago
What tool are you using there?
matt9741399 4 years ago
It's just a 1mm U-mill supplied with proxxon mf70 itself. This video is one of the trial done during the first 2 days.
ideegeniali 4 years ago
how did you make it
can u send the project documents to me
RoMeO644 4 years ago
Visit my site ideegeniali(dot)it. I used EagleCad with a script of mines to generate toolpath based on the design of the electronic board. The Mill is a Proxxon MF70 converted to cnc with a mechanical kit of mines called kiwi. I designed the electronic board myself as well, I called it cobra (2A bipolar chopping), connected to PC via parallel port. On PC mach3 was running, generating steps for the driver based on the toolpath in standard GCode.
ideegeniali 4 years ago