No but seriously, this isn't how it's supposed to be played, you cannot move when your playing silent notes, so therefore, your hands should be at the rest position.
@omgwtfbbq6666 Yes, yes, you're probably right. At least on one level, and if I ever perform it again (which I almost certainly wouldn't, unless Chris [M. Conga] was around), I'll keep that in mind.
Still, if this is an adaptation less for a concert hall, and more for a folksy open mic at a coffee house, I'm not sure that's terribly relevant. Or, at least not relevant in quite the same way.
"Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory, or a truck passing by a music school?"
@omgwtfbbq6666 Don't get me wrong, though- I'm neither under any illusion that I've accomplished anything interesting at all with this 'performance', nor that I've accomplished much that could truly be said to be remarkable with any other. But, eh, so goes it, right? 'Twas fun, nevertheless.
In the spirit of constructive criticism: for one thing, this piece is in three movements, and it helps if you do it in three movements because otherwise people forget that you're doing it at all. Also, since nobody knew what you were doing, there wasn't nearly enough build-up to it, so the audience wasn't concentrating properly, so it was as if you weren't performing anything but had just taken a break for a few minutes. Otherwise, nice performance.
i performed a concert in ode to john cage at the national gallery in d.c. in honor of cage/cunningham/rauschenberg collaborations and it was wonderful. cats decided to walk out though. i a just happy the music evoked a reaction. if people hate it or love it i am happy; if people are apathetic, i am sad.
@AndrewLargemanJones I'm tellin you man, it needs some bass, a little more timber and maybe a singer....your never gonna achieve platinum without......it
Nice. I'm in a contemporary ensemble and we're performing this piece in May. We'll probably be doing it from the original score and in a different key than this one though ;)
As 4' 33" is designated to last that length of time, you would assume the same applies to 0'0" in which case we should all be constantly paying Cage royalties!
Frankly, I don't care that much about Cage to know too much about his work. I was intrigued by the audacity of this piece and did as something of a joke. Later, I discovered that humor, pulling a prank on people, is very much a part of the fluxus art movement that John Cage had so much to do with. That's what I've grown to understand. That the more people who get pissed off about this piece, the more silly society is that ambient noise would actually offend them.
Ambient noise is there before and after the preset 4' 33" rendering Cage's "piece" non-existant. By that measure all sound is music, so we can dispense with musicians and composers. Sounds are the ingredients, they don't become music until someone cooks them.
I suppose seeing the possible humour in this would depend on how much you paid for your ticket!
I would. If anything that's what it is, or an artistic or philosophical statement anyway. Either way, this statement or piece or whatever is one I've grown to understand more over time.
@ajuk1 But you didn't write or play this. John Cage wrote it and David Tudor gave the first performance. And why does it have to 'impress' you? The C major prelude from Book 1 of the Well-Tempered Clavier is dead simple, and so is 'Anarchy in the UK' by the Sex Pistols - hardly 'impressive' music, either of them, and both of them easy to play, but nobody else thought of writing them, and they're both totally brilliant.
Well, I thought it would be a good idea to expose them to Cage, and it needed the explanation or they would just think we were two weird people not playing anything for five minutes. The explanation let them know about John Cage, or that was the idea anyway.
Lol. I think he was just trying to hurry the open mic along as we'd taken up a good deal of time at this point. We talked to him ahead of time about doing the piece and he was fine with it. But it's his job to keep things going.
i dig. i would have introduced it a little better; maybe state the story behind why Cage wrote this piece, but i do really dig all the ambient noises coming from people's mouths, and dishes. I like, I just wouldnt have laughed at it in the beginning.
Well, laughter was a very natural reaction due to the awkwardness of the situation. Seeing as how John Cage was a very big influence to the fluxus art movements, I don't really feel bad about laughing.
I wanted people to not really know what the piece was at first. To sit through the whole thing first. I tried to explain it afterwards; I'm aware that I did not do a very good job at that.
The big mystery is the YouTube performance of 4'33" which takes place by a guitarist on a number 333 bus in Chile (a search with "cage 333" will find it). The comments are unbelievable, and the ratings are getting rediculous (I saw a +110 for one comment). One guy says it's made him optimistic towards life in general, another is talking about the bus becoming a "temple of art". I mean, hey, aren't they taking it a bit too seriously?
Well, it sounds like it, because I really don't think Cage or anyone else associated with that type of fluxus avant-garde art and music really took it that serious, but if it makes them feel better about life, hey, what can we say?
It's not specifically a piano piece - anyone can perform it. Apparently Cage had the idea for it in 1947 but didn't think anyone would take it seriously so he said nothing about the piece. But by 1952 he felt that it was ESSENTIAL to present the piece (and he had valid ideas for believing this) so it was performed in 1952. I don't expect anyone to believe me, but I'm quite serious when I say that as a professional musician 4'33" is the only Cage piece which I see any point in.
I thought I read that on the score it says it is for piano, but I've never seen the score. We kind of wanted to have the score to sit in front of us, but we didn't have access to it.
I've not heard much else that I've seen a point in by Cage, but I really haven't listened to that much.
Why did you tell the audience to keep it down? Their noise is part of the piece, right? It gives the audience a chance to make the music for a change while the performers listen. If I were at a performance of 4'33'' I'd start yelling or singing something.
It was a joke, but your criticism is valid. At any rate, there's enough noise in this piece anyway to make it interesting, especially you can hear the music from the sound system of the front of the coffee shop.
Sorry I messed up the arrangement... um... yeah...
Smirking was a defense mechanism. It's not easy to sit in front of an audience who isn't geared toward the avant-garde and not play a single note. It wasn't that I have disrespect for Cage, it was just a somewhat awkward situation.
Let me get this straight. You think you're such a good interpreter of Cage that to hate your performance is to hate him? Wow.
P.S. It was not a good performance because you weren't even listening to the ambient sounds. The point of 4'33" is not to represent silence, but to excentuate the uninterrupted sounds around us; and to become attuned to them. But you seemed more focused on suppressing your laughter, and your buddy seemed more focused on how much time has passed.
May I ask what kind of point you are trying to make by finding stupid little reasons to insult my performances? Are you trying to "prove" to me my inferiorities? Because your opinion is really not that valuable to me concerning me, because you seem to value conventional artistic prowess over honest expression, and what's really sad to me is blind you really seem to be about art.
In other words, I'm not trying to reach people like you.
Not true. I'm not all about the conventional. I just think you're really, really, bad. That's it, bro. So please, don't count yourself as a representative of the unconventional.
P.S. I'm a big fan of Cage's. That should tell you just how conventional I am.
Why, though, on what grounds? That I sing out of key and I'm off rhythm? That's convention to me. I don't care about being good, I care about reaching people. Which I have done, whether you believe it or not. And really those souls are more important than your opinion.
Ah, and for someone who thinks I'm so terrible, you seem to waste a lot of your time watching my videos.
I never said I was "out-there." But that is convention, not the bare minimum. I'm sorry you don't seem to know anytyhing about what the word convention actually means.
Who said that was the bare minimum? God? Jesus? Buddha? The spirit of music? Or bureaucracy? Certainly some pseudo-intellectuals did as well. But the reality is that ANYONE can make beautiful music.
Why do you put so much effort into putting down people? How does this enrich society?
I'm pretensious? You don't even know me, don't make character assessments on me, I have not done that to you. But why? Because I stood up for myself when you completely degraded me? Don't spin it around to make me look like some jackass when you've been making condescending remarks from the beginning.
You're a very good spin doctor, I'll give you that. But as far as I'm concerned, I don't see a lot of acceptance or understanding in you. It may very well be there, but not in my limited experience of you. If you listen to Lennon for a good ear, fine, but I don't, I listen to someone who has something to say, and I'll give anyone who has something to say a listen even if they don't have amazing pitch and rhtyhm (like Daniel Johnston).
Can't wait to see what you have to show as a retort instead of hidding behind your computer screen and typing away at that keyboard. Haven't heard anything that was original yet. You have the knack for posting comments that are pre-determined for what you don't understand and can't do yourself. If you didn't read it in a book you'd have no clue at all.
P.S. I said you seem to be all about the conventional because you said an artist must master the conventional before delving into the unconventional, and in the same context of that you quoted John Cage (along with Philip Glass, and I believe Pablo Picasso.)
Funny, Cage would never be an A-hole about our performance. He would find something good to say about it. You're no fan anymore than you think WE portray the unconventional. I can't wait to see what videos you have on here. BRO
Nice video. At first, I didn't like how you introduced it; it seemed like you were doing it as a joke. But then everyone settled down and you could here ambient sounds, and could probably feel that stillness/tranquility if you were there. Thanks for bringing this piece to a different audience and treating it properly. God knows there's enough 'joke' videos of 4'33 on youtube.
It wasn't really meant to be a joke. I was kind of amused by the whole thing, just because, come on, you sit in silence for four minutes, the awkwardness of the whole situation was just amusing to me, so I was reacting naturally by chuckling to myself throughout it. But I wouldn't have done it if I didn't find any value in the piece.
I find it interesting how you can hear music from the stereo in the front room leaking back to our performance.
Well, the piece is titled 4 33 for a reason (time is a factor). And when I saw the piece performed infront of a piano....there was a time piece there. Are you sure you are talking out the correct oraphus? There really doesn't even need to be anyone on stage if you want to get nit picky.
Eh, they didn't mind so much. It was a nice experience, it's a pretty open enviorenment really. I like that if you listen closely you can hear some music from the radio in the front room.
Keep calm, and silence.
spyroonline175 3 months ago
No but seriously, this isn't how it's supposed to be played, you cannot move when your playing silent notes, so therefore, your hands should be at the rest position.
omgwtfbbq6666 1 year ago
@omgwtfbbq6666 Yes, yes, you're probably right. At least on one level, and if I ever perform it again (which I almost certainly wouldn't, unless Chris [M. Conga] was around), I'll keep that in mind.
Still, if this is an adaptation less for a concert hall, and more for a folksy open mic at a coffee house, I'm not sure that's terribly relevant. Or, at least not relevant in quite the same way.
"Which is more musical, a truck passing by a factory, or a truck passing by a music school?"
dispensableandyjones 5 months ago
@omgwtfbbq6666 Don't get me wrong, though- I'm neither under any illusion that I've accomplished anything interesting at all with this 'performance', nor that I've accomplished much that could truly be said to be remarkable with any other. But, eh, so goes it, right? 'Twas fun, nevertheless.
dispensableandyjones 5 months ago
you got the balls! :)
mitchahbw 1 year ago
Super! I put your video on the facebook page - JOHN CAGE'S 4'33'' FOR CHRISTMAS NUMBER ONE 2010
yugyuof6f67fo7 1 year ago
I like this song, but it got ripped off by John Lennon when he wrote the Nutopian International Anthem.
fatpizzaman 1 year ago
In the spirit of constructive criticism: for one thing, this piece is in three movements, and it helps if you do it in three movements because otherwise people forget that you're doing it at all. Also, since nobody knew what you were doing, there wasn't nearly enough build-up to it, so the audience wasn't concentrating properly, so it was as if you weren't performing anything but had just taken a break for a few minutes. Otherwise, nice performance.
lexo30 1 year ago
Y'know, the sheet music to 4'33" is not very expensive.
lexo30 1 year ago
FATALITY
DinoGuts 1 year ago
True silence is so hard to be found.
DatSuKid 2 years ago
It's not supposed to be true silence.
BassT3hYoshi 2 years ago
i performed a concert in ode to john cage at the national gallery in d.c. in honor of cage/cunningham/rauschenberg collaborations and it was wonderful. cats decided to walk out though. i a just happy the music evoked a reaction. if people hate it or love it i am happy; if people are apathetic, i am sad.
ColtraneGilg 3 years ago
needs more cowbell.... i got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
WhoKilledCallo 3 years ago
Excellent suggestion.
Next time we perform it, we will be sure to add cowbell performer to the mix.
AndrewLargemanJones 3 years ago
@AndrewLargemanJones I'm tellin you man, it needs some bass, a little more timber and maybe a singer....your never gonna achieve platinum without......it
omgwtfbbq6666 1 year ago
Nice. I'm in a contemporary ensemble and we're performing this piece in May. We'll probably be doing it from the original score and in a different key than this one though ;)
kwaniesiam 3 years ago
This is the hot shit!
dougpower 4 years ago
I'd call it "piece and quiet".
Bada-bing.
aldentesolo 4 years ago
Brave piece to perform! *applause*. It's good to get people thinking that music isn't just about the notes but also what happens in between.
aldentesolo 4 years ago
Yes, this piece is one I've grown a deeper understandin of as I've progressed musically.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
How about performing another one of Cage's pieces, 0'0"?
"Gullible" IS in the dictionary!
Mogggpiano 4 years ago
Okay?
Are you referring to the fact that this piece can be performed at any time period as long as the title is the length of time of the piece.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
As 4' 33" is designated to last that length of time, you would assume the same applies to 0'0" in which case we should all be constantly paying Cage royalties!
Mogggpiano 4 years ago
Frankly, I don't care that much about Cage to know too much about his work. I was intrigued by the audacity of this piece and did as something of a joke. Later, I discovered that humor, pulling a prank on people, is very much a part of the fluxus art movement that John Cage had so much to do with. That's what I've grown to understand. That the more people who get pissed off about this piece, the more silly society is that ambient noise would actually offend them.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
Ambient noise is there before and after the preset 4' 33" rendering Cage's "piece" non-existant. By that measure all sound is music, so we can dispense with musicians and composers. Sounds are the ingredients, they don't become music until someone cooks them.
I suppose seeing the possible humour in this would depend on how much you paid for your ticket!
Mogggpiano 4 years ago
And that, my friend, is the whole point. All sound is music, according to Cage.
BassT3hYoshi 2 years ago
I wouldn't call it a peice!
ajuk1 4 years ago
I would. If anything that's what it is, or an artistic or philosophical statement anyway. Either way, this statement or piece or whatever is one I've grown to understand more over time.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
I admit I could write a piece of classical music or play any instruments but I could write/play this so it just doesn't impress me.
ajuk1 3 years ago
It's not supposed to be difficult to play. It's pure simple art. the charm is in understanding its meaning.
NightmareGanon 3 years ago 2
@ajuk1 But you didn't write or play this. John Cage wrote it and David Tudor gave the first performance. And why does it have to 'impress' you? The C major prelude from Book 1 of the Well-Tempered Clavier is dead simple, and so is 'Anarchy in the UK' by the Sex Pistols - hardly 'impressive' music, either of them, and both of them easy to play, but nobody else thought of writing them, and they're both totally brilliant.
lexo30 1 year ago
Uncomfortable and awesome.
I wish it didn't come with an explaination.
bucktoofus 4 years ago
Well, I thought it would be a good idea to expose them to Cage, and it needed the explanation or they would just think we were two weird people not playing anything for five minutes. The explanation let them know about John Cage, or that was the idea anyway.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
Awesome! Play another Cage Piece!!!
GolumTR 4 years ago
Ooh, wow, such an interesting and challenging request that I vow now to fulfill, even if that was a bit tongue and cheek. ;)
This one is obviously the easiest Cage piece to play, but I shall find another and contact you when I do it. Peace/Love
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
haha, well done.
mostlyvowels 4 years ago
That old guy wanted to shove you guys off that stage as fast as possible.
bwatts672 4 years ago
Lol. I think he was just trying to hurry the open mic along as we'd taken up a good deal of time at this point. We talked to him ahead of time about doing the piece and he was fine with it. But it's his job to keep things going.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
i dig. i would have introduced it a little better; maybe state the story behind why Cage wrote this piece, but i do really dig all the ambient noises coming from people's mouths, and dishes. I like, I just wouldnt have laughed at it in the beginning.
ColtraneGilg 4 years ago
Well, laughter was a very natural reaction due to the awkwardness of the situation. Seeing as how John Cage was a very big influence to the fluxus art movements, I don't really feel bad about laughing.
I wanted people to not really know what the piece was at first. To sit through the whole thing first. I tried to explain it afterwards; I'm aware that I did not do a very good job at that.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
I love this song
Did anyone leave during the performance?
DeBergerac1 4 years ago
Actually, I don't think so. They were okay with it. They just kind of laughed. I like how you can hear music from the front room on it.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
How in the world is one supposed to rate 4 minutes and 33 seconds of attempted silence on youtube?
Seriously, I love avant-garde, but this...
Anyways,
GREAT COVER MY FRIENDS! I SHOULD TRY IT! GEE! I WONDER HOW LONG IT'S GONNA TAKE ME TO PRACTICE THIS?
prasiddha 4 years ago
I don't care if people rate it.
It's not like all i do is sit up in silence for five minutes each week.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
The big mystery is the YouTube performance of 4'33" which takes place by a guitarist on a number 333 bus in Chile (a search with "cage 333" will find it). The comments are unbelievable, and the ratings are getting rediculous (I saw a +110 for one comment). One guy says it's made him optimistic towards life in general, another is talking about the bus becoming a "temple of art". I mean, hey, aren't they taking it a bit too seriously?
1978197919801981 4 years ago
Well, it sounds like it, because I really don't think Cage or anyone else associated with that type of fluxus avant-garde art and music really took it that serious, but if it makes them feel better about life, hey, what can we say?
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
It's not specifically a piano piece - anyone can perform it. Apparently Cage had the idea for it in 1947 but didn't think anyone would take it seriously so he said nothing about the piece. But by 1952 he felt that it was ESSENTIAL to present the piece (and he had valid ideas for believing this) so it was performed in 1952. I don't expect anyone to believe me, but I'm quite serious when I say that as a professional musician 4'33" is the only Cage piece which I see any point in.
BrucknerEnthusiast 4 years ago
I thought I read that on the score it says it is for piano, but I've never seen the score. We kind of wanted to have the score to sit in front of us, but we didn't have access to it.
I've not heard much else that I've seen a point in by Cage, but I really haven't listened to that much.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
Why did you tell the audience to keep it down? Their noise is part of the piece, right? It gives the audience a chance to make the music for a change while the performers listen. If I were at a performance of 4'33'' I'd start yelling or singing something.
bistro39 4 years ago
It was a joke, but your criticism is valid. At any rate, there's enough noise in this piece anyway to make it interesting, especially you can hear the music from the sound system of the front of the coffee shop.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
i heard about this at school today its sooooooo weord lol
aboyle7 5 years ago
Not a very good arrangement for guitar really. Besides the smirking sucked. Sorry.
noleno 5 years ago
Sorry I messed up the arrangement... um... yeah...
Smirking was a defense mechanism. It's not easy to sit in front of an audience who isn't geared toward the avant-garde and not play a single note. It wasn't that I have disrespect for Cage, it was just a somewhat awkward situation.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
I agree.
Twig6 4 years ago
Fuck that, some entertainer you are,sorry to be a dick, but you suck!
kablooey 5 years ago
Then so does John Cage.
And I'm no fucking entertainer.
Mondays61 5 years ago
What???? did you think i was talking about you??
kablooey 5 years ago
This is a different account of mine.
Mondays61 5 years ago
Let me get this straight. You think you're such a good interpreter of Cage that to hate your performance is to hate him? Wow.
P.S. It was not a good performance because you weren't even listening to the ambient sounds. The point of 4'33" is not to represent silence, but to excentuate the uninterrupted sounds around us; and to become attuned to them. But you seemed more focused on suppressing your laughter, and your buddy seemed more focused on how much time has passed.
daniel20t 5 years ago
May I ask what kind of point you are trying to make by finding stupid little reasons to insult my performances? Are you trying to "prove" to me my inferiorities? Because your opinion is really not that valuable to me concerning me, because you seem to value conventional artistic prowess over honest expression, and what's really sad to me is blind you really seem to be about art.
In other words, I'm not trying to reach people like you.
Mondays61 5 years ago
Not true. I'm not all about the conventional. I just think you're really, really, bad. That's it, bro. So please, don't count yourself as a representative of the unconventional.
P.S. I'm a big fan of Cage's. That should tell you just how conventional I am.
daniel20t 5 years ago
Why, though, on what grounds? That I sing out of key and I'm off rhythm? That's convention to me. I don't care about being good, I care about reaching people. Which I have done, whether you believe it or not. And really those souls are more important than your opinion.
Ah, and for someone who thinks I'm so terrible, you seem to waste a lot of your time watching my videos.
Mondays61 5 years ago
Staying in key and in rhythm is not convention. It's just the bare minimum. Keep telling yourself you're "out-there", buddy. You're so not.
daniel20t 5 years ago
I never said I was "out-there." But that is convention, not the bare minimum. I'm sorry you don't seem to know anytyhing about what the word convention actually means.
Who said that was the bare minimum? God? Jesus? Buddha? The spirit of music? Or bureaucracy? Certainly some pseudo-intellectuals did as well. But the reality is that ANYONE can make beautiful music.
Why do you put so much effort into putting down people? How does this enrich society?
Mondays61 5 years ago
We're on totally different wave-lengths. We'll never understand each other. toodles
daniel20t 5 years ago
Le sigh. That's what I told you a long time ago. I'm sorry it took me asking you questions you couldn't answer to make you realize that.
Mondays61 5 years ago
P.S. "Le sigh"?
You have to be the most pretentious person around. And the sad thing is there's no talent to justify it.
daniel20t 5 years ago
I'm pretensious? You don't even know me, don't make character assessments on me, I have not done that to you. But why? Because I stood up for myself when you completely degraded me? Don't spin it around to make me look like some jackass when you've been making condescending remarks from the beginning.
Mondays61 5 years ago
Haha. There's a lot of assholes on this site that do that.
Twig6 4 years ago
Yeah, I know. But not many are as dedicated as he is in completely crushing starting musicians.
Mondays61 4 years ago
You're a very good spin doctor, I'll give you that. But as far as I'm concerned, I don't see a lot of acceptance or understanding in you. It may very well be there, but not in my limited experience of you. If you listen to Lennon for a good ear, fine, but I don't, I listen to someone who has something to say, and I'll give anyone who has something to say a listen even if they don't have amazing pitch and rhtyhm (like Daniel Johnston).
Mondays61 5 years ago
Can't wait to see what you have to show as a retort instead of hidding behind your computer screen and typing away at that keyboard. Haven't heard anything that was original yet. You have the knack for posting comments that are pre-determined for what you don't understand and can't do yourself. If you didn't read it in a book you'd have no clue at all.
DreamingTurtle 4 years ago
P.S. I said you seem to be all about the conventional because you said an artist must master the conventional before delving into the unconventional, and in the same context of that you quoted John Cage (along with Philip Glass, and I believe Pablo Picasso.)
Mondays61 5 years ago
Funny, Cage would never be an A-hole about our performance. He would find something good to say about it. You're no fan anymore than you think WE portray the unconventional. I can't wait to see what videos you have on here. BRO
DreamingTurtle 4 years ago
Nice video. At first, I didn't like how you introduced it; it seemed like you were doing it as a joke. But then everyone settled down and you could here ambient sounds, and could probably feel that stillness/tranquility if you were there. Thanks for bringing this piece to a different audience and treating it properly. God knows there's enough 'joke' videos of 4'33 on youtube.
dos4gw82 4 years ago
It's a hard one to understand, even for me. Thanks for taking the time to express your impression of it.
DreamingTurtle 4 years ago
It wasn't really meant to be a joke. I was kind of amused by the whole thing, just because, come on, you sit in silence for four minutes, the awkwardness of the whole situation was just amusing to me, so I was reacting naturally by chuckling to myself throughout it. But I wouldn't have done it if I didn't find any value in the piece.
I find it interesting how you can hear music from the stereo in the front room leaking back to our performance.
AndrewLargemanJones 4 years ago
Well, the piece is titled 4 33 for a reason (time is a factor). And when I saw the piece performed infront of a piano....there was a time piece there. Are you sure you are talking out the correct oraphus? There really doesn't even need to be anyone on stage if you want to get nit picky.
DreamingTurtle 4 years ago
That was very awkward for every one
daniel20t 5 years ago
Eh, they didn't mind so much. It was a nice experience, it's a pretty open enviorenment really. I like that if you listen closely you can hear some music from the radio in the front room.
Mondays61 5 years ago