War between Atheists and religious Believers

[GermanConquistador08]

@Morgethein "Yeah I do get the video game joke' - You're awesome! Just wanted to say that. HAHA!!! "millions of people around the world who want to crack our skulls open" - More like a few hundred. Seriously, most Christians arent like that. Heh, to be fair there's a lot more people around the world who would do worse than that to BOTH OF US for more reasons than just our religious beliefs. Hatred and reasons for violence are easy. Humans rarely need a reason for it.

[HybridD91]

@GermanConquistador08 Certain religions make hatred and reasons for violence easier to 'justify'.

[GermanConquistador08]

@HybridD91 "Certain religions make hatred and reasons for violence easier to 'justify'." - Very true. The problem is the MAJOR religions dont. Even Islam doesnt. In the Qu-ran, there is little which could be taken (if understood corrected) to translate to (make suicide bombs) Its just perversion of religion to satisfy someones urge for justification and if it wasnt religion it would be nationhood, and if it wasnt nationhood it would be natural selection or something, I dont know.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: Having read the OT you cannot seriously say there is not a whole catalogue available to justify all kinds of murderous, violent and immoral behaviour?

"(if understood corrected)"

This is exactely the problem and the fact that most come to the "wrong" conclusions is no excuse for the danger of religion. In heory guns could be a good idea. In reality there are always too many people who can't handle them and always those who use them to gain power and make money.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "least violent, intolerant, abusive countries' - Crime in Germany is very low, but its not due to secularism, its due to effective policing both historically and in practice in the modern age. But crime in Germany does take place, not the lowest in the world by far and human trafficking is an increasing problem in Germany as well. Again, NONE of that has to do with secular parts of Germany, its just cultural effects. "child abuse hush uping.." - Yes I get it, anti-Catholic undertone.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: "Crime in Germany is very low, but its not due to secularism, its due to effective policing both historically and in practice in the modern age."

There you go. So we certainly do not have to thank the church for counteracting women's and gay rights and criticising secularism and science that are part of how we achived that. Besides, how do you know secularism does not play a role? The connection between the rates I mentioned and hight atheist rates are clear.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

"Yes I get it, anti-Catholic undertone."

Undertones? Have you any idea how extremely unpopular the catholic church is in Germany? XD

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "So we certainly do not have to thank the church for counteracting women's and gay rights and criticising secularism and science"- Seeing as how it never did so, than yeah i suppose so. What you're speaking of is revisionist history, its not history that happen its history that is crafted out and made into a mythos that people believe simply because its been said for so long. Its not true. "..extremely unpopular the catholic church is in Germany?" - Seeing as how the majority ARE RRC!

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

Haha, wow. You are an American Catholic apologetic who is so wrong, immoral and inorant on so many levels it is simply sickening. You claim to hold up ideals like openmindedness while you are basically a catholic church propagada machine that is so arrogant it thinks it knows better about an institution in a country than the ppl who are dealing with it on a daily basis. Where do you get this shit from? US catholic conspiracy theory blogs?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "You are an American Catholic apologetic who is so wrong, immoral and inorant on so many levels it is simply sickening" - I've heard worse. It doesnt phase me much considering that you literally have to basis for those claims. "it knows better about an institution in a country than the ppl who are dealing with it on a daily basis" - You seem to forget man, I lived in Mexico from age 2 onwards and I go there often. You havnt SEEN a catholic country until you've lived there for years.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: Or do you repeat it to yourself until you believe it? You claim you hate worshipping humans and want to be openminded but you are worshipping an institution and a man regardless of its crimes and negative influence, you hypocrite. You can't handle any sort of criticism towards your church. XD

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "Where do you get this shit from? US catholic conspiracy theory blogs?" - NO as none such sites exists. "you are worshipping an institution and a man" - Stop, Catholics dont worship the pope, this is a common sterotye, a crafted mythos. The Pope is the head of the Church as the Patriach of the Eastern Church is and the Head of the Angelican Church, he is only infaliable on religious basis, not on political or social basis THOSE views are still subjective to criticism AND ARE!

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

"Seeing as how it never did so, than yeah i suppose so."

I am sorry but are you mentally ill? Please read the teachings of the leaders of the catholic church. Read Ratzingers book. Read all the interviews and statements against women's and gay rights in papers in the last couple of decades (not to mention earlier). Listen to the speeches, watch the interviews and statements on tv. If that had no influence you are saying that the cath. church has no influence whatsoever.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo Number of adherents and popularity is NOT an indication of truth first and foremost. Secondly, in the Americas Catholicism is still the most populus religion, and in the US at least the number of Catholics increase by about 165K a year by conversion alone. As well as that the Church increasing in membership around 10 million every year and seeing as how the Church has been going for 2000 years, thats a pretty fine record regardless of European involvement in the decline of the Church.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "I am sorry but are you mentally ill?" -Seeing as how i disagree with you I must be. Its that you're views are superior to mine, I'm just mental eh? "against women's and gay rights" -Again, being against gay marriage and or the gay lifestyle(including political activism and social customs)doesnt make you a homophob so you're arguement falls apart. "Your church is 100% undemocratic" - Seeing as how priests and bishops have to be elected, thats not completely true.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: How am I supposed to take you seriously even though you clearly never read a word that Ratzinger, our cardinals and bishops wrote and said? Okay, how would you know, you're in the USA, but then don't be so arrogant to think you can make a comment about the church's stance on homosexuality. Only revently cardinal meissener forbid a teacher to teach religion because he was openly gay and criticised the cath church. Your church is 100% undemocratic.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo Although you have a point, afterall God isnt president of the universe is he? "Being AGAINST gay marriage is anti-gay" -No it isnt. "tried to influence politics and officially urged catholic politicians to prevent the law. Educate yourself" - I have and guess what? Its their RIGHT to do so. Religious authorities can vote, therefore they can persaude politicans, through arguements, points and reasoning to vote a certain way, just like gay-rights groups have the right to.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "Having read the OT...available to justify all kinds of murderous, violent and immoral behaviour?

" -No, but the point is, does it serve a purpose. It does. And its not to obligate any Christian to the behavior in question. Ergo, it doesnt matter. "for the danger of religion" -There is as much danger in religion as it is with guns. "heory guns could be a good idea."-No, in PRATICE gun rights are a good idea because used responsibly it saved more lives than it takes.People forget that

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

"There is as much danger in religion as it is with guns."

Good, that's why we have strict gun laws in Germany and keep the church away from politics.

"No, in PRATICE gun rights are a good idea because used responsibly it saved more lives than it takes.People forget that"

Hm, lets see.. if 1000 people (close to the real number) in Germany die through guns each year more than 1000 have been saved through guns owned by civilians? Nonsense.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: And if 20.000 people in the USA are killed by gun, more than 20.000 were saved by guns owned by civilians? I'd like to see some evidence for that. XD If you freaks wouldn't be allowed to carry gun and give them to your toddlers for Christmas you might actually be able to achive less live threatening gun incidents in the first place like we do in Europe. That's some logic.. *shakes head*

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "And if 20.000 people in the USA are killed by gun, more than 20.000 were saved by guns owned by civilians?" - Again, illegal guns are criminal enterprises and gun crimes happen regardless of the state of gun sales are. The only difference is that in one scenario you can protect yourself, in the other you really cant. "If you freaks wouldn't be allowed to carry gun and give them to your toddlers for Christmas" - Seeing as how you cant get past sterotypes sure why not. Really man?

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

"Again, illegal guns are criminal enterprises and gun crimes happen regardless of the state of gun sales are."

Oh yes, because all people killed by gun were killed by criminals and illegal guns. XD Dude, the same is the case in Germany and we still have an almost 10 times death by guns per citizen rate than the US.

"Seeing as how you cant get past sterotypes sure why not. Really man?"

More children in the US die by guns than ppl shot in Germany overall per year.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo ..that isnt due to gun control. If gun control decreased crime than Mexico would have one of the lowest crime rates in the world, as such its the exact opposite and PAN pro-gun ownership politicans are assassinated more than anti-gun ownership politicans by the carteles. Criminals dont want an armed populuation. "practically worships guns." -The US views guns differently, historically speaking guns have been neccisary to survival in the US sort of like sword in old uncivilzed Europe.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "less live threatening gun incidents in the first place like we do in Europe" - Seriously, when I see a statement like this, all I think of is that this person has no clue what a real America thinks of when they buy or own a gun. "That's some logic.. *shakes head*' - Heres some logic: Guns protect people as much as they harm and you want to take away the protection. In Mexico where I lived for a long time, hardest gun laws in the world, its partially why people are so scared there.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: You don't get it, do you? You created a culture that practically worships guns. Europe doesn't. The number of ppl in the US who die from gun accidents and through kids who can't handle guns is higher than the ppl who get shot in my country. So yeah, if everyone has guns in a gun and violence glorifying society there are more threads, deaths and then you'll need protection from a situation that would not even occur in Germany. Very clever.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "from gun accidents and through kids who can't handle guns is higher than the ppl who get shot in my country." - Seeing as how German population is considerable smaller than the US, that doesnt suprise me. Try per capita data next time. "if everyone has guns in a gun and violence glorifying society there are more threads, deaths" -Again, thats more sterotype and mythos than actual fact. Gun ownership does not lead to an increase in violence in fact its the exact opposite.

[ndrthrdr1]

@GermanConquistador08 said "Gun ownership does not lead to an increase in violence in fact its the exact opposite"

Unless you document that claim, we can rightly assume that you simply made it up.

[GermanConquistador08]

@ndrthrdr1 "Unless you document that claim, we can rightly assume that you simply made it up." - By that logic, everyone who makes a claim without PHYSICAL evidence (in a debate at least) is making stuff up. It cant possibly be from research done by the debater right? Do the research yourself, I'm just the one saying it exists and if you dont believe me, fine I dont care. I made my position based on logic, you refute my point,

[ndrthrdr1]

@GermanConquistador08 You tried to make your point by making a claim without backing it up with documentation of your source. Now you reply, but again without documentation. Your lack of documentation (twice) is less than convincing.

[GermanConquistador08]

@ndrthrdr1 "Now you reply, but again without documentation. Your lack of documentation (twice) is less than convincing." - Apperently logic is less important than documentation but fine. Two sources I can point to is an article done by the Future of Freedom Foundation, an ABC special done by John Stossel. If you disagree with these sources than fine I'll concede that you simply wont be persuaded and your demand for documentation is merely a screen for not having to listen to the arguement.

[dimefeet]

@GermanConquistador08 "an" article? Can you get any more vague?

No documentation.

Fail.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: The moment people start to talk about an absolute truth many panic as soon as something disproves the content of their holy book or points out that there is tons of archaic, fucked up shit in it that is absolutely outdated. At that point many get so scared they think rejecting parts of the bible is wrong. Even worse when they start to "worship" human leaders of religions.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo It was a very anti-catholic stance. "Child-abuse hush uping" -The idea that abuse scandels are hushed up is completely unfounded. By hush up, it means to prevent people from having their lives ruined. Everyone understands this in any other case but priests and its a breach of justice that people can still have their lives ruined by accusation. "Gay-bashing" - Which isnt a Christian ideal, so again nothing to do with secularism.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

""Gay-bashing" - Which isnt a Christian ideal, so again nothing to do with secularism."

Being anti-gay is not a typical christian agenda? Have you any idea what the catholic church in Europe as been up to in the last couple of decades? How arrogant are you to think you can judge this? Of course secularism in Europe is connected with tolerance of gays.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "Being anti-gay is not a typical christian agenda?" - Yes thats exactly what I'm saying. Also keep in mind, being for traditional marriage is NOT anti-gay, despite what any political or social group has to say on the matter. People can have different opinions and not hate each other. "How arrogant are you to think you can judge this?" -I could ask you the same thing. "secularism in Europe is connected with tolerance of gays." - And I'd put forth its got little to do with it.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: Newflash, the catholic church, even in Poland, is more unpopular than ever. More people than ever are leaving the church. Almost 60% of German catholics say that it doesn't matter what the pope says. Only 10% of catholics attend church. The number of ppl leaving the catholic church rose by 40% last year.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: "Also keep in mind, being for traditional marriage is NOT anti-gay, despite what any political or social group has to say on the matter."

No, being for tradition marriage is not anti-gay. Being AGAINST gay marriage is anti-gay and that what the catholic church is. The German bishops have REPEATEDLY spoken out against gay-marriage. Before it was allowed they even tried to influence politics and officially urged catholic politicians to prevent the law. Educate yourself!

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: Er, the catholic church massively hushed up the abuse cases. Even Ratzinger did. It is a fact. Are you saying that it was good to hush it up so the priests who raped children didn't have their lives ruined? The victims who came out did this because THEY had their lives ruined by those people and wanted justice. What the fuck is wrong with you?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo ", the catholic church massively hushed up the abuse cases" - No it hasnt. The Church "cover-ups" of priestly molestations is again nothing more than a mythos, wrong information that has been said so often that its thought of as true. "Are you saying that it was good to hush it up so the priests who raped children didn't have their lives ruined" -No because in the eyes of courts and peers, priests are often guilty before they even reach trial just because of the sterotype.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

Im Munich and Freising (Ratzing was there for some time) police checked the church's files and found that 17 cases of sexual abuse had not been reported. They also noticed massive file destruction.

"No because in the eyes of courts and peers, priests are often guilty before they even reach trial just because of the sterotype."

Oh, I see. Because of that they didn't report actual cases of child molestation. Please think about what you are saying there.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "that 17 cases of sexual abuse had not been reported. They also noticed massive file destruction." - 17 unreported case..UNREPORTED CASES. Think about that for a moment. Also, how could there be files when there was massive file destruction and HOW would you find that? A large amount of shredded paper? Honestly, this story doesnt hold much water on further inspection of the simple details. "Because of that they didn't report actual cases" - If it was never reported, HOW did we KNOW?

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: The catholic church in Ireland hushed up hundeds or cases of child abuse. They had more than 300 complaints of children and didn't report a single priest to the police even though later some priests even admitted what they did to the police. Oh wait, I bet you think that aaaall those kids lied, that it is all a big conspiracy and that catholic priests would never harm a child, right? XD

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo I'm going to explain why priest molestation is not as big as the mythos portrays it: 1. Its a fact that married men abuse children more than unmarried 2. Statistically Doctors, teachers and even farmers are less likely to abuse than Christian clergy. 3. Media attention has been more on Catholic abuses because the Church is big and lucretive to sue 4. The number of actual priests found GUILTY of abuse is very small compared to the size of the church 5. Many reports are repeated crimes.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "What the fuck is wrong with you"-I contend that people are innocent until proven guilty, and the majority of priests accused have turned out not guilty. I'd argue that more priests lives have been ruined by false accusations than those actually molested by priests. "Do you honestly think Europeans give a fuck about the pope's opinion about condoms?" - Considering Europe's declining population I wish they did.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

"I contend that people are innocent until proven guilty, and the majority of priests accused have turned out not guilty."

Please show me the numbers of priests who have been reported to the police and turned out innocent. And I assume you would rather have the child molesters get away than having some priest proving their innocence? Again, what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you aware how many cases have now been confirmed and they never even were reported in the past?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo As in, those 17 cases might have come from the same priest potentially. "that catholic priests would never harm a child, right" -Absolutely not. And it should be well maintained, and the church agrees, that those found actually guilty should be nailed to the wall. But statistically you're more likely to be molested by your doctor, teacher and own parents than a catholic priest. "show me the numbers" - According to the Jay John Report, 2/3 are usually innocent.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "many panic as soon as something disproves the content of their holy book' - ANd the majority dont. "points out that there is tons of archaic, fucked up shit in it that is absolutely outdated" - Like what? A lot of it stems from lack of biblical understanding. For example, if you think Christians follow Mosaic law, you're wrong and it stems from bibilica ignorance. "Even worse when they start to "worship" human leaders of religions" -I personally hate that, worship anyways.Respect yes

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: "ANd the majority dont" And those who do are still infinitly more than in Europe.

"Like what? A lot of it stems from lack of biblical understanding." Yes, but many misunderstand so that doesn't make things better. And please explain how to tweak the stuff about murdering a whole city, taking slaves and torturing your children can be tweaked to sound not quite so fucked up.

"I personally hate that, worship anyways.Respect yes"

Respect has to be earned.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo At least in crime infested areas. "And those who do are still infinitly more than in Europe." - More likely they're just shown as more mainstream in Christianity when they're actually not. "Respect has to be earned." - Aiding the end communism in Eastern Europe is a good place to start (JPII just an example) As for your bit on the OT, again none of this is suppose to be imitated, as for slaves and torture bibilical slavery isnt the same as colonial slavery and there is no torture.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

"More likely they're just shown as more mainstream in Christianity when they're actually not."

LOL. I'm sorry but the everyday religiousness of Americans is not comparable to the.. rather.. absense of it in Germany. We don't have ex-gay camps, we don't have tons of Jesus camps, we don't teach creationism at some schools, we don't campaign to influence politics. You guys have christian fundamentalists in the country that are only out-crazied by Africans.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "You guys have christian fundamentalists in the country that are only out-crazied by Africans." -..what?

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: Germany as a pretty secular, non-theist country managed to become one of the least violent, intolerant, abusive countries of the world and that child abuse hush uping (haha, now word! XD), gay-bashing, condom-condemming, sexist, ecumenism-stalling hypocrite - again - goes on about how we can't manage without his religion as if atheism and science meant ppl turned into unfeeling, immoral beings. Yet there are always thousands who forget all the above and celebrate him. 

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "Germany as a pretty secular, non-theist country" - I only lived in Germany for two years so I actually cant say much from first hand experience. However, what I do know is that the majority of irreligious people are from former Soviet Eastern Germany, and raising a generation from that envirnment you'd expect to find a massively irreligious population especially since former DDR had almost completely replaced Christian German culture with secular culture.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: Well, from my experience of living here my whole life (with some stints in the UK and USA) while the number of people who actually identify themselves as atheists is higher in Easter Germany the people who are only religious on paper (e.g. member of a church) and don't give a shit about religion is high in the West and North as well. People in Southern Germany tend to be the most religious ones.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "condom-condemming" -Seeing Europe's population levels, I wouldnt call that a bad thing. Also, its a more long-term solution than giving out condoms, it doesnt work it just leads to more sexual irresponsibility. "sexist" - Again, secular people can be as sexist as bad Christians. "ecumenism-stalling hypocrite" -Rather than people who bring religions together,like Christianity rather than atheism which essentially a large majority just dont take religion seriously for unfounded reasons

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08:

LOL! Sorry. Er, do you think I was referring to Europe re the condoms? Do you honestly think Europeans give a fuck about the pope's opinion about condoms? XD

I was referring to his stance for years to tell HIV-ridden Africa that condoms are a bad thing and that they should rather, how realistic, be abstinent. This is close to ideological mass-murder and completely irresponsible and backwards.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "to tell HIV-ridden Africa that condoms are a bad thing and that they should rather, how realistic, be abstinent" -You mean like in Uganda where when condoms were limited and sexual education was increased it became the first African nation to see a DOWNTURN in HIV/AIDS? "This is close to ideological mass-murder" -Even though the AIDS cases have been INCREASING despite giving contraception in Africa? Yeah, the RRC are the mass-murderers NOT the organizations that increse AIDS rates.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: "Even though the AIDS cases have been INCREASING despite giving contraception in Africa?" What use is giving contraception in Africa with the church told those fudamentalist christians it was not okay to use it? Are you completely stupid?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "Are you aware how many cases have now been confirmed" -The church addressing these problems also have been increasingly ignored by the media. Seminary pratice has made priestly molestation rapidly decreased. The vast majority of cases came before 1970 ordination, after the sexual revolution which the increasing empathsis on sexual energy in the western world was not addressed in the seminaries, leading to obvious problems with priestly sexual discipline.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo Also its worth noting that the church officially disagreed that homosexuality was a root cause of priestly abuses. Real gay-bashers huh? "those fudamentalist christians it was not okay to use it? Are you completely stupid?" - Seeing as how respect is limited here I'm starting to fear that disagree with you will turn me into a Nazi in your eyes. Heh. Education is the simple answer, sexual education is limited in areas where condoms are supplied (because of the condom supply)

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: Studies in Uganda conducted on 10.000 people over ten years (1994 - 2003) showed that people were less abstinent and monogamous while condom use rose from 10% to 50% with infection rates decreasing. DANG! When the US-funded, christian abstinence over condoms crap started in 2003 the HIV infection rates DOUBLED according to Uganda Aids Commission. Don't hang around on so much christian propaganda sites, will you?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "Don't hang around on so much christian propaganda sites" -Yet if I claimed that you hang around anti-Catholic/Christian or atheist propaganda sites I'd be wrong yes? Regardless, I didnt get this from a Christian propaganda site, I got it both from Ugandan statistics and Francis Chullikat, Observer from the Holy See to the UN who was also the nuncio to Iraq and Jordan. Also, I remind you that the majority of those who CARE for aids patients, are Christian missionaries and charities.

[Trampadoo]

@GermanConquistador08: The catholic church is stalling ecumenism in Germany. Fact. Not secularism, not the atheists.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "The catholic church is stalling ecumenism in Germany. Fact." - I'd love to hear some examples how seeing as how the Church has been preaching it for almost a half century now. "Good, that's why we have strict gun laws in Germany and keep the church away from politics." - Meainging to say that its harmless, but you're obviously not big on gun laws and religion. "Hm, lets see.. if 1000 people (close to the real number) in Germany die through guns' - Legal or illegal gun use?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "then the catholic church is stalling the process" -Again concree examples of HOW they're stalling please. "How is it harmless if it has to be cept in check by laws and kept out of politics?" - Because religious groups have the right to influence their governments in a democratic society. Their religion has no baring on if they can influence government or not. Unless again the PRI anti-clerical voting measures interest you.

[Trampadoo]

"Meainging to say that its harmless, but you're obviously not big on gun laws and religion."

How is it harmless if it has to be cept in check by laws and kept out of politics?

"Legal or illegal gun use?"

What do you mean? We are talking about homicide and murder here. Some of the gun were legally owned, some not.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Trampadoo "We are talking about homicide and murder here" - Again, most of the guns bought for homicide are illegal weapons, or weapons previously legal and then stolen, borrowed, taken etc. Take legal buying out the way and all you have are the illegal guns. "all people killed by gun were killed by criminals and illegal guns" -The vast majority yes. "More children in the US die by guns than ppl shot in Germany overall per year" - Gun violence is more in the US than Germany yes...

[GermanConquistador08]

@Morgethein Although I would call them nations rather than tribes. Tribes implies a sense of community without a sense of rule of law or centralized code of conduct. In that sense, some Christians and atheists seem to be tribal, others seem to just be..nationalistic in their own way, or..religious as it were. I understand and I accept the apology. Its completely ok. We all get a little..hot under the colar at things like that. Its our...tribalism..maybe? HAHAH!!!!!

[GermanConquistador08]

@Morgethein "he's a minority' - I'm Mexican, technically I'm a minority but I dont believe I have any MORE say because of that. Just being a minority doesnt mean you have more say. And I agree, I very much dislike the more fire and brimestone medieval inquisition rejects that float around, devaluing Christianity like say, the EA marketing department devalues video games HAHA!..sory(video gaming joke. If you know the joke it fits in SO WELL!!!) And yes tribalism is a facete of humanity.

[GermanConquistador08]

@Morgethein Is that not tribalism?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Morgethein " revel in the idea of winning this 'war'" - No I didnt, I simply pointed out the flaw in Dawkins arguement. And military humilation usually involves a mistake on the part of the losing side, not totally destruction of an opposing side, which is rarely a military objective in any war. I simply was pointing out the obvious flaw in Dawkin's assumption. And helpless? According to Dawkins atheists would win. But you only focused on ME saying something. Care to address that?

[GermanConquistador08]

@Morgethein "Exterminating minorities is kewl!" - Ignoring that I never said that, lets see what Dawkins said. Dawkins said essentially the same thing I did but in reverse. We both share the opinion that an open conflict would be terrible and we hope that people, both atheist and Christian see reason not to do that but we have differing opinion on how the conflict would end. He believes the atheists would win, i believe the Christians would win. Thats the only difference.

[GermanConquistador08]

Actually, conversion rates being what they are, and the true minority of atheism in the world, I'd say any open conflict would end in athestic defeat and humiliation.

[Pigroota]

Hahaha good call there from R.D. It's the reason why the South lost in the US Civil War

[greeny202a]

I lost concentration! the girl in the white top is hot :)

[tombenarye1234]

what dawkins answered? i couldn't understand the last 2 lines...

[BrellK]

@tombenarye1234 Basically, if it's any consolation, we would have everybody who can design weapons.

[tombenarye1234]

@BrellK

:D

[krissy4nik]

I think I have a crush on richard dawkins

[Dhalsim06]

Hell yes I'm all for war, and we the theists would win, firstly through our sheer numbers and secondly through our passion and determination. In fact, if I were an immensly powerful and influential person, like the pope, I'd be calling for a Holy War. Yes I'm serious and no I'm not ashamed. Fuck you all! Enjoy licking dicks in hell!!

[drfoxcourt]

@Dhalsim06 How very Christian of you.

Turn the other cheek. Submit to the supernatural. Condemn your fellow man to hell on earth.

Fanatical faith is the most dangerous threat to humanity in an age of atomic weaponry (terrorists, jihadists, and doctor killers don't care about you, your life, or your afterlife)

[nosajj12345]

@Dhalsim06 Hahaha...so much for "Thou shalt not kill"...eh. Thanks for demonstrating, yet again, just how contradictory your belief system really is. Make up your minds; is it ok to kill or is it not?? Either way, you're still a sick little f***. LOL

[BrellK]

@Dhalsim06 So you are advocating genocide against non-believers... that's pretty kind of you. At least you admit that you don't have any tactical or technological advantage. You only have more people, and an undying passion to which you will not change through rational thought. Why not think about what you just said and how poorly you portray theists and humanity as a whole?

K Thanks Bye!

[CzarAdam2009]

@Dhalsim06

I noticed one of your favorite songs is "Sisters of Mercy - Temple of Love '92"

I didn't listen to it, but I assume the merciful sisters are singing about killing great masses of people who they probably brag about trying to save.

The name makes it sound catholic, but I'm not sure. However...

" Enjoy licking dicks in hell!!

Rape (there's a clue) in hell (hey look! the rape is "justified" by putting it in a religious setting!)... Are you sure you're not the pope already?

[onemanjazzfuneral]

@CzarAdam2009 you should look things up before you speak.......dumbass

[CzarAdam2009]

@onemanjazzfuneral

Hey, I'm mocking him. Don't take it so hard.

[s5b678]

@Dhalsim06 That is probably the most christian statement I have ever heard! At least he is admitting what his religion is all about. You do realize that these days numbers are nothing. What good are your numbers when a single missle can destroy an entire city block? Despite the fact that I think you are dangerous, I pity you for your ignorance and wish there was some way I could help you. Funny how those who do not believe in god are much more willing to help their fellow man.

[DisturbedYetHappy]

@s5b678 It's a pity you had to ruin everything you said with that last part. People who do not believe in a god are most certainly NOT more willing to help. This I know from experience, and from common sense... it doesnt help your case to be so dishonest.

I honestly doubt that Dhalsim's comment was a serious one. Either way, it was an emotional response to this video. Have you read the video's description? Who exactly is stoking the fires here?

[Ghozteit]

War is not nessecary. They will die out through evolution. =D

[tooreal556]

dawkins is a retard. he says that he wouldn't want a war, yet he goes around disrespecting people's religions, and encourages atheists to challenge people on their religious beliefs.

and he says he doesn't want a war? bullshit....

and once the war he started im sure he will blame religion for it.

[CavemanSynthesizer]

@tooreal556 god forbid he challenge anyone on their beliefs - that might lead to violence

[RedBeetle]

Stalin was an atheist who wanted to murder millions and force them to profess atheism. He actually did that. The atheist murdered 50 million people.

The atheists in the French Revolution unleased the "Reign of Terror." Atheists and Catholics are known for their bloodthirsty behavior. Both atheists and Catholics have historically proclaimed: Convert or Die!

Dawkins is an irrational psychopath who rejects our Bill of Rights. Hitchens was a card carrying communist.

[TheIntelexual]

@RedBeetle

You, Sir, are a fucking moron! Even if you WERE to somehow correctly assert that Richard Dawkins rejects our Bill of Rights, HE IS BRITISH! The US Bill of Rights DOES NOT APPLY TO HIM! Furthermore, Stalin did not kill people to convert to atheism--he killed them to impose communism and rid his political enemies! And atheists of the French Revolution? Citations are needed on that one.

[CASEYMARK76]

@TheIntelexual The Redbeetle's argument is an enthyeme. You point out a point which is taken for granted. You then conclude with ignoratio elenchi. The application of the Bill of Rights is irrelevant. Beetle is presupposing the question of social and economic thought and that always leads to philosophy. Perhaps studying would be a better pastime than dropping F-bombs on the internet, not an argument, just an observation.:)

[TheIntelexual]

@CASEYMARK76

I would like to point out that the word you are looking for is "enthymeme", not "enthyeme", so spelling goes a long ways; secondly, it is not irrelevant because he was clearly somehow trying to assert that Stalin killed in the name of atheism, which is a blatant falsehood and demonstrably historical inaccuracy. Perhaps studying would be a better pastime for YOU then using words you cannot even spell.

[CASEYMARK76]

@TheIntelexual You sir are are correct enthymeme is the proper spelling. I oversight of "m". Do you deny that philosophy presupposes political and social thought? If so that would be a interesting argument, an extremely difficult argument to win. Good Luck!

[TheIntelexual]

@CASEYMARK76

I do not deny it. However, one cannot make assumptions about historically verifiable things. It's a futile exercise. If one presupposes political and social thoughts about the future, then so be it. But to say that Stalin murdered millions in the name of atheism, regardless of whether the debate is philosophical or historical, it is wrong. One cannot make presumptions for a past which there is ample evidence (especially such a recent past).

[CASEYMARK76]

@TheIntelexual Interesting thoughts on the subject. Some may say "assumptions", I would say necessary inference. The difference between us seems to be a philosophical. I will not attack your use of the verification principle because I am sure we have both heard those arguments before. Our axiomatic differences will not be resolved in 500 characters on utube. We both know the weakness of empiricism and I will not put you through the ordeal.:)

[Katalyzt]

Indeed ★★★★★

[thejugglenaut91]

i'd like for there to be a war between the nutters(oh wait). They just need to die off

[VanGoghsEar1890]

I don't want a war. I just want the delusional, vulgar, lunatics to stop PMing me. I don't even have the the time to correspond with my friends, let alone having to respond to every nut with an opinion. Aren't the comments we leave on the videos enough? I'm sure you'll keep them coming, and you can be sure I'll keep blocking you.