Hey! Have you ever tried intellectus 424 diet (search on google)? Ive heard some unbelivable things about it and my work buddy lost tons of weight with it.
I like your video and it has a good tone. I will not respond to everything said in this video in 500 ch. I will say that this is more relative, I do agree that there is a trade off and this should be more considered. If evolution is the course, organisms can rapidly evolve to meet the needs to the enviroment. The biggest difference between healthly and unhealthy people is excercise. Humans are designed to be moving and active, modern day we are not. That is a huge problem.
interesting as usual. So do you think that we are living longer than we did because of hygene and vacinnes ?(sp?) also, do you think that the best diet is vegetarian?
As the way of all things, what effect do you suppose its question, knowledge, understanding and application by billions of persons will have on the state of global economics, science, the humanities, education, government and business?
.
The underlying law of nature is the most important subject any person can investigate and learn about, can proceed to understand, and can then come to personally apply in life.
If humans haven't evolved to eat cooked food, why do East Asians and Europeans eat grains everyday in the form of mainly rice and wheat, respectively? Also, in many places in Africa, corn in the form of cornmeal is the chief if not only source of food. What do you say about this, Loren?
Just because we *can* do something it doesn't necessarily mean we *should* do it. Grains are an abundant source of cheap carbohydrates. I would hardly call grains optimal food. The economy of a country will be a factor in what its people eat.
Europeans can drink milk more than others because they became accustomed to it. I put to you that anybody who is lactose intolerant can become a big milk drinker if they slowly become accustomed to it. That said, I believe dairy is very bad. Regardless of whether it's good or not, people can become dairy consumers through exposure.
I agree, dairy is unnatural for humans. Cow milk is for baby cows. Human milk is for baby humans. Asians as a group aren't big consumers of dairy foods. They also don't seem to suffer from osteoporosis the way people from dairy-consuming countries do.
Why are grains (wheat, oats, corn, rice) and legumes (peanuts, soy) bad exactly? Is it because they can only be eaten in their cooked form? Sometimes I find raw peanuts (groundnuts) at the grocery store. I've read there's a connection between gluten in wheat and neurological tics, such as facial tics. Not sure why gluten and not rice, for example, would cause such.
@Derek: No, grains are simply unnatural, not bad. At least, they aren't necessarily bad for that reason. Loren talks about gluten. That's one reason. Another is phytic acid, when consumed in large quantities.
Phytic acid is a strong chelator of important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc, and can therefore contribute to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely on these foods for their mineral intake, such as those in developing countries.
^ Hurrell RF (September 2003). "Influence of vegetable protein sources on trace element and mineral bioavailability". J. Nutr. 133 (9): 2973S7S. PMID 12949395.
^ Committee on Food Protection, Food and Nutrition Board, National Research Council (1973). "Phytates". Toxicants Occurring Naturally in Foods. National Academy of Sciences. pp. 363371. ISBN 9780309021173.
first of all humans in modern timees outlive humans from previous generations by years...even in from the 1800s our life expectancy has increased about 10 years...from 6 million years ago its at least tripled....SECOND of all in the blue zones of earth (where the most people in a population live to over 100) their diets contain legumes such as beans and nuts and grains...for example, in okinawa-rice or in nicoya-flour
this guys a self righteous idiot...he lists grain, meat, greens, fruits, and roots...ten he goes on to say meat, grains, dairy and legumes-legumes are nuts and foods such as peas! he contradicted himself repeatedly and dairy can be extremely beneficial to diets
Burn all that unwanted fat with help of This new diet supplement ! Get Free Trial today and you'll start seeing results easier and faster than ever. See more at my Channel!
Man, you don't really know what you are talking about huh? Give me some references to real scientists who prove that all :) BTW I think that people in the old ages also baked and coocked their food (otherwise its very hard to digest).
Another huge factor in health is the ability to understand & control one's own life & destiny. If a tribesman breaks a spear he knows how to make a new one, if a modern man's car or cellular breaks he is powerless to fix it himself & may feel a sense of helplessness. Most of what we use today we don't understand & are dependent on a slew of experts (and virtual slaves in 3rd world countries) to create. For an average 1st worlder today to even create one everyday item himself is revolutionary.
If our diet has become increasingly more self destructive as the human race has evolved, then why is it we are living longer than ever before? I sincerely try and eat more healthfully, far from perfect, but I try...
we live longer because of medicine....back in the paleo day if u had a sever cut or whacked off your leg u prob would not survive...do to risk of infection as well as becoming disabled....today we have doctors and hospitals where this threat is remedied and we survive....there are countless situations like this that we have now that the paleo man/woman did not have....
Mental health is important for a long life. A peaceful mind will but less burden on your nervous system. I cannot be at peace knowing that I have left a trail of destruction behind me just because I needed to satisfy emotional hunger. When I ate meat every time I was hungry it would be the feeling of desperation. For me personally that ment the body was so desperate for nutrients that i reacted emotionally to it. On a raw diet that doesnt happen. Im hungry yes, but only lightly.
Oh im so sorry. I think different thoughts than you do. Please dont call me a whack job.. I might actually believe it, because your way is the right way of thinking isnt it. Guess what... As I write this message there are 10 banannas in front of me. Im gonna munch on them and enjoy feeling good. You just keep eating the 'right' foods. The foods 'humans were ment to eat'. But i forgive you. You arent half as bad as what i have to deal with in real life. To me your just text that cares. You joke
Nice sounding stuff but mostly assumptions and little data.
Perhaps humans evolved capable of eating just about anything? Subsequent dietary changes were not always negative. I also disagree that humans cannot be quick to physically adapt.
Anthropologists and others claim that cooking meat led to rapid brain development - human evolution as you touched on. I'll bet we lived longer after that one.
atteries wouldn't clog if you had the high metabolism and activity level that you had back then... and also the adequate rest periods between this activity, so that the body was operating on a much higher phyesical level.
I am a practicing physician (MD) and have long thought that your line of reasoning is correct about the chronic diseases which are the most common health problems in western societies.
An engineer named Pritikin was one of the early pioneers in accumulating data which prove the point.
I'm pleased that this guy is promoting, in effect, the kind of raw, palaeolithic diet that I and many others follow. Most raw diets tend to promote raw dairy, which causes huge health-problems, whereas proponents of palaeo diets tend to promote cooked-foods, so it's refreshing to find this POV on Youtube.
When you bbq or fry stuff and it gets brown, this brown is in practicality TAR... it contains the same stuff as the tar in cigarette smoke and that is known to cause cancer.. Benzoates; Benzoapyrene (I think).. how many know this? Also, that stuff is "related" to the benzoates used in food as preservatives..
All of this is based upon the premise that we "evolved" for millions of years. I hold to the idea that we did not "evolve" but rather our methods of food preparation evolved. This may seem far out, but in the bible, there are instances where people are recorded as having lived for several hundreds of years. Now the average lifespan is 60-70 years, quite a drastic drop in years. I don't believe we evolved and but I do believe in eating a diet that isn't industrialized.
Lots of people that lived 2000 years ago also ate raw meat, the raw food diet includes meat my friend, just in a raw form. Every culture has some dish made with raw meat, either in fermented form or just straight off the bone. Fermenting food doesn't change the fact that it is raw, it rather increases the enzymes and act as a digestive aid. Check out Nourishing traditions by sally fallon. Great book!
Soy should not be eaten unless it's fermented, it has stuff in it that is bad for people. We are ofc told the opposite, but some need to sell soy since it's produced in vast quantities.
Soy oil is made from soy beans that are "destroyed" by fungus and mold (very toxic and harmful) and deemed unusable for anything else; but the oil will contain residues from these toxins.
I recommend Coconut Oil, it can tolerate high heat without turning rancid, which olive oil tends to do, (I prefer Olive Oil as a side dressing to many dishes, not for use in cooking, it oxidizes too easily.) If you don't like the taste coconut oil imparts on the food it's cooked with, then check out grapeseed oil, that also tolerates high heat. I am making my own pickled cucumbers right now, fermenting action starting now..Smells good!
Read it it promotes a meat eating diet...meats that we here dont' eat (elk, deer, moose, etc). It was intersting but i question the validityof certain statements.
Traditional/Primitive societies dont generally have an exclusively raw diet. Theres a lot of meat roasting over open fires, foods fried in oil, and so on.
In 'traditional' latin America beans are usually refried in lard!
Very good work. This is like the book 'Lessons from miracle doctors' and the concept of 'a baseline of health'. Good work bro keep it up and spreading the wisdom. We seems to have everyone with alot of knowledge these days.. yet nobody is wise - you are one of the guys bringing wisdom back into fashion!
I just read the chinastudydotcom about page and it seems to me that it is pretty much just encouraging a vegetarian diet.
"The findings? "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease ... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease."
If this health ideology's goal is to eliminate animal-based food from humanity's diet, than it should just throw in the towel now.
Although this all seems plausibly, I do not think that traveling to another country would be a fair comparison seeing as there are so many other factors including health, ie. modern medicine, environmental factors, etc. A balanced experimental trial in which two groups with identical medical access, and other health-influencing factors, but with two different diets, the "modern diet" and the "traditional human diet", would be an interested test to your hypothesis.
Thank you for sharing the truth about why we are technically unhealthy, maybe people will gain some insights and choose a more varied, raw diet. Thanks again, and peace, always peace.
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey! Have you ever tried intellectus 424 diet (search on google)? Ive heard some unbelivable things about it and my work buddy lost tons of weight with it.
12geniusLD 4 months ago
I'm always wondering if eating raw eggs is ok.
Esoparagon 4 months ago
I agree that the buildup of food derived toxins contributes to poor health - also unresolved stress and environmental pollution
vincegill2 5 months ago
I like your video and it has a good tone. I will not respond to everything said in this video in 500 ch. I will say that this is more relative, I do agree that there is a trade off and this should be more considered. If evolution is the course, organisms can rapidly evolve to meet the needs to the enviroment. The biggest difference between healthly and unhealthy people is excercise. Humans are designed to be moving and active, modern day we are not. That is a huge problem.
Ryukikon 6 months ago
interesting as usual. So do you think that we are living longer than we did because of hygene and vacinnes ?(sp?) also, do you think that the best diet is vegetarian?
iworkforme 7 months ago
Thanks so much for this video.
How2Draw 11 months ago
you're one of the few most worthwhile speakers i've seen on youtube. cheers.
JDurden33 1 year ago
two words: Nourishing Traditions, check it out
EzeeSKANKIN 1 year ago
right, because the human body is adaptive to its environment and the little contact we have with nature is making us ill.
NeoArawak 1 year ago
hum
FINALCAT 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION OF ALL:
.
What is the underlying law of nature.
.
As the way of all things, what effect do you suppose its question, knowledge, understanding and application by billions of persons will have on the state of global economics, science, the humanities, education, government and business?
.
The underlying law of nature is the most important subject any person can investigate and learn about, can proceed to understand, and can then come to personally apply in life.
TedDGPoulos 1 year ago
i like your voice. very soothing.
ElysiumEternal 1 year ago
If humans haven't evolved to eat cooked food, why do East Asians and Europeans eat grains everyday in the form of mainly rice and wheat, respectively? Also, in many places in Africa, corn in the form of cornmeal is the chief if not only source of food. What do you say about this, Loren?
DerekChaunessey 2 years ago
Just because we *can* do something it doesn't necessarily mean we *should* do it. Grains are an abundant source of cheap carbohydrates. I would hardly call grains optimal food. The economy of a country will be a factor in what its people eat.
auggiedoggy 2 years ago
Europeans can drink milk more than others because they became accustomed to it. I put to you that anybody who is lactose intolerant can become a big milk drinker if they slowly become accustomed to it. That said, I believe dairy is very bad. Regardless of whether it's good or not, people can become dairy consumers through exposure.
DerekChaunessey 2 years ago
I agree, dairy is unnatural for humans. Cow milk is for baby cows. Human milk is for baby humans. Asians as a group aren't big consumers of dairy foods. They also don't seem to suffer from osteoporosis the way people from dairy-consuming countries do.
auggiedoggy 2 years ago
Why are grains (wheat, oats, corn, rice) and legumes (peanuts, soy) bad exactly? Is it because they can only be eaten in their cooked form? Sometimes I find raw peanuts (groundnuts) at the grocery store. I've read there's a connection between gluten in wheat and neurological tics, such as facial tics. Not sure why gluten and not rice, for example, would cause such.
DerekChaunessey 2 years ago
@Derek: No, grains are simply unnatural, not bad. At least, they aren't necessarily bad for that reason. Loren talks about gluten. That's one reason. Another is phytic acid, when consumed in large quantities.
auggiedoggy 2 years ago
Phytic acid is a strong chelator of important minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, and zinc, and can therefore contribute to mineral deficiencies in people whose diets rely on these foods for their mineral intake, such as those in developing countries.
auggiedoggy 2 years ago
References for phytic acid:
References:
^ Hurrell RF (September 2003). "Influence of vegetable protein sources on trace element and mineral bioavailability". J. Nutr. 133 (9): 2973S7S. PMID 12949395.
^ Committee on Food Protection, Food and Nutrition Board, National Research Council (1973). "Phytates". Toxicants Occurring Naturally in Foods. National Academy of Sciences. pp. 363371. ISBN 9780309021173.
auggiedoggy 2 years ago
I would rather live twenty years in paradise than 80 years in hell.
cooldudesg54 2 years ago
@cooldudesg54 : I hear you, but I'd rather live 80 years in paradise!
auggiedoggy 2 years ago
first of all humans in modern timees outlive humans from previous generations by years...even in from the 1800s our life expectancy has increased about 10 years...from 6 million years ago its at least tripled....SECOND of all in the blue zones of earth (where the most people in a population live to over 100) their diets contain legumes such as beans and nuts and grains...for example, in okinawa-rice or in nicoya-flour
bambinogone5 2 years ago
this guys a self righteous idiot...he lists grain, meat, greens, fruits, and roots...ten he goes on to say meat, grains, dairy and legumes-legumes are nuts and foods such as peas! he contradicted himself repeatedly and dairy can be extremely beneficial to diets
bambinogone5 2 years ago
This guy is giving us the truth at last. All you moaning idiots go and cry to the doctor who will try and mask your symptoms of disease.
cooldudesg54 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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loseweightdietsupply 2 years ago
pacore...the difference between animal and human is that we cook...it is part of what differentiates us from animal
bellavita28 2 years ago
Man, you don't really know what you are talking about huh? Give me some references to real scientists who prove that all :) BTW I think that people in the old ages also baked and coocked their food (otherwise its very hard to digest).
Zwartekaka 2 years ago
Another huge factor in health is the ability to understand & control one's own life & destiny. If a tribesman breaks a spear he knows how to make a new one, if a modern man's car or cellular breaks he is powerless to fix it himself & may feel a sense of helplessness. Most of what we use today we don't understand & are dependent on a slew of experts (and virtual slaves in 3rd world countries) to create. For an average 1st worlder today to even create one everyday item himself is revolutionary.
TheNarz 2 years ago 3
hit the wrong thumb, sorry. Great Point ! TheNarz
bms7715 2 years ago
Hit the wrong thumb. Great Point! TheNarz
bms7715 2 years ago
Were not living, but dying longer!
superpositionalpha 2 years ago 3
That is semi true.
sandroeleven 2 years ago
If our diet has become increasingly more self destructive as the human race has evolved, then why is it we are living longer than ever before? I sincerely try and eat more healthfully, far from perfect, but I try...
Gregroix 2 years ago
we live longer because of medicine....back in the paleo day if u had a sever cut or whacked off your leg u prob would not survive...do to risk of infection as well as becoming disabled....today we have doctors and hospitals where this threat is remedied and we survive....there are countless situations like this that we have now that the paleo man/woman did not have....
sinnerpeace 2 years ago
Medical advances mostly!
JamesOF 2 years ago
To add
Mental health is important for a long life. A peaceful mind will but less burden on your nervous system. I cannot be at peace knowing that I have left a trail of destruction behind me just because I needed to satisfy emotional hunger. When I ate meat every time I was hungry it would be the feeling of desperation. For me personally that ment the body was so desperate for nutrients that i reacted emotionally to it. On a raw diet that doesnt happen. Im hungry yes, but only lightly.
pac0re 2 years ago
to Add pacOre, your a whack job
EFC100t 2 years ago
Oh im so sorry. I think different thoughts than you do. Please dont call me a whack job.. I might actually believe it, because your way is the right way of thinking isnt it. Guess what... As I write this message there are 10 banannas in front of me. Im gonna munch on them and enjoy feeling good. You just keep eating the 'right' foods. The foods 'humans were ment to eat'. But i forgive you. You arent half as bad as what i have to deal with in real life. To me your just text that cares. You joke
pac0re 2 years ago
So what do you eat for meals on a raw diet? I mean real meals...
sandroeleven 2 years ago
Ive been vegan for 5 years now. I still eat cooked food but eat alot of fresh fruit and vegetables.
While my health improved becoming vegan when i started it took leaps and bounds when i increased my raw food intake.
There is absolutely no need to over analyse what we used to eat. The diet of every animal on this planet is quite simple. RAW.
Humans are not much different :)
After I have eaten raw fruit i want to play sport.. After I have eaten cooked food I want to sleep. No argument for me.
pac0re 2 years ago
Were life spans longer way back with all this raw food?
Perhaps food is not the critical component of health and longevity.
Hygiene seems to be a biggie. Medical care another.
Where's the evidence that toxic substances from the cooking of food accumulate to the detriment of human health?
Just skeptical.
Jyoyo1 2 years ago
Nice sounding stuff but mostly assumptions and little data.
Perhaps humans evolved capable of eating just about anything? Subsequent dietary changes were not always negative. I also disagree that humans cannot be quick to physically adapt.
Anthropologists and others claim that cooking meat led to rapid brain development - human evolution as you touched on. I'll bet we lived longer after that one.
Jyoyo1 2 years ago
this guy looks like a suicide victim
Varceo1137 2 years ago
lol nuts.
really though ive been inspired by this guy has inspired me.
MrXbox36067946794 2 years ago
raw food is the key to real health wellbeeing and performance. Everything other will NEVER give you 100% of these things.
Mongodelight 2 years ago
I thought Gluten isn't good..-_-..
Gluten is used as a stabilizing agent or thickener in products such as ice-cream and ketchup, where it may be unexpected.
Take for example: Glue! it's the same thing as glue and paint!
Foods of this kind present a problem because the hidden gluten constitutes a hazard for people with celiac disease.
Battleaxegunner 2 years ago
If we eat the way we did prior to 10,000 years ago we would eat meat 90% of the time and our arteries would clog.
granzo55 3 years ago
atteries wouldn't clog if you had the high metabolism and activity level that you had back then... and also the adequate rest periods between this activity, so that the body was operating on a much higher phyesical level.
bajan13k 2 years ago
very true. I think that is why they didnt live long
sandroeleven 2 years ago
You are right on the ball.
I am a practicing physician (MD) and have long thought that your line of reasoning is correct about the chronic diseases which are the most common health problems in western societies.
An engineer named Pritikin was one of the early pioneers in accumulating data which prove the point.
tabu97303 3 years ago
Congratulations, true physicians and intellectuals are rare among doctors.
neothomist1275 3 years ago
Lorax Thank you for sharing information like this, keep it coming it's grate!
katalina125 3 years ago 7
I'm pleased that this guy is promoting, in effect, the kind of raw, palaeolithic diet that I and many others follow. Most raw diets tend to promote raw dairy, which causes huge health-problems, whereas proponents of palaeo diets tend to promote cooked-foods, so it's refreshing to find this POV on Youtube.
Loki0115 3 years ago 5
Thank you for this informative message.
kunsura 3 years ago 4
One thing to mention:
When you bbq or fry stuff and it gets brown, this brown is in practicality TAR... it contains the same stuff as the tar in cigarette smoke and that is known to cause cancer.. Benzoates; Benzoapyrene (I think).. how many know this? Also, that stuff is "related" to the benzoates used in food as preservatives..
Kenzofeis 3 years ago 3
Uhm I don't think so. You can pan fry a leaf without oil and if will brown.
easternslavic 3 years ago
All of this is based upon the premise that we "evolved" for millions of years. I hold to the idea that we did not "evolve" but rather our methods of food preparation evolved. This may seem far out, but in the bible, there are instances where people are recorded as having lived for several hundreds of years. Now the average lifespan is 60-70 years, quite a drastic drop in years. I don't believe we evolved and but I do believe in eating a diet that isn't industrialized.
MonicaLewandowski 3 years ago
so ur into raw food as a whole diet. I am not cuz ppl that lived 2000 yrs ago ate meat.
kmcl11 3 years ago
Lots of people that lived 2000 years ago also ate raw meat, the raw food diet includes meat my friend, just in a raw form. Every culture has some dish made with raw meat, either in fermented form or just straight off the bone. Fermenting food doesn't change the fact that it is raw, it rather increases the enzymes and act as a digestive aid. Check out Nourishing traditions by sally fallon. Great book!
MonicaLewandowski 3 years ago
Soy should not be eaten unless it's fermented, it has stuff in it that is bad for people. We are ofc told the opposite, but some need to sell soy since it's produced in vast quantities.
Soy oil is made from soy beans that are "destroyed" by fungus and mold (very toxic and harmful) and deemed unusable for anything else; but the oil will contain residues from these toxins.
I stay away from soy altogether. I use olive oil.
Kenzofeis 3 years ago 3
I recommend Coconut Oil, it can tolerate high heat without turning rancid, which olive oil tends to do, (I prefer Olive Oil as a side dressing to many dishes, not for use in cooking, it oxidizes too easily.) If you don't like the taste coconut oil imparts on the food it's cooked with, then check out grapeseed oil, that also tolerates high heat. I am making my own pickled cucumbers right now, fermenting action starting now..Smells good!
MonicaLewandowski 3 years ago
What is the prob w oxidation monica?
sandroeleven 2 years ago
I came back to this site and was reading your comment...do you still eat raw foods?
sandroeleven 2 years ago
Comment removed
dwixi 2 years ago
Right on! This is what everyone needs to know. Not knowing this is not an option. Thanks for sharing with the world!
Jennipherhau 3 years ago
Google an article called...
Guts and Grease: The Diet of Native Americans
For a more realistic vision of the paleo diet.
Teller3448 3 years ago
Read it it promotes a meat eating diet...meats that we here dont' eat (elk, deer, moose, etc). It was intersting but i question the validityof certain statements.
kmcl11 3 years ago
Traditional/Primitive societies dont generally have an exclusively raw diet. Theres a lot of meat roasting over open fires, foods fried in oil, and so on.
In 'traditional' latin America beans are usually refried in lard!
Primitive isnt necessary better all the time.
Teller3448 3 years ago
Actually, lard isn't necessarily bad. Eating fat does not make one fat.
danethevegan 3 years ago
Very good work. This is like the book 'Lessons from miracle doctors' and the concept of 'a baseline of health'. Good work bro keep it up and spreading the wisdom. We seems to have everyone with alot of knowledge these days.. yet nobody is wise - you are one of the guys bringing wisdom back into fashion!
DonkfestPokerDotCom 3 years ago
wow! i didn't know that!!
DMCpro6944 4 years ago
I'm kind of scared by how smart you are
mankyfox 4 years ago 4
I just read the chinastudydotcom about page and it seems to me that it is pretty much just encouraging a vegetarian diet.
"The findings? "People who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease ... People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and tended to avoid chronic disease."
If this health ideology's goal is to eliminate animal-based food from humanity's diet, than it should just throw in the towel now.
ZiggyStardust2329 4 years ago
The problem is that when you cook the meat enzymes are npot active anymore. and protein changes their shape. Fat which is important, also gets ruined
pietrosperoni 4 years ago
Ziggy, what you are saying has been done. It is called the China Study. Google it.
Dharmaboost 4 years ago
Although this all seems plausibly, I do not think that traveling to another country would be a fair comparison seeing as there are so many other factors including health, ie. modern medicine, environmental factors, etc. A balanced experimental trial in which two groups with identical medical access, and other health-influencing factors, but with two different diets, the "modern diet" and the "traditional human diet", would be an interested test to your hypothesis.
ZiggyStardust2329 4 years ago
Great video, linked to it today via welikeitraw
Thanks for what you do bro.
Dhrumil
Dharmaboost 4 years ago
Thank you for sharing the truth about why we are technically unhealthy, maybe people will gain some insights and choose a more varied, raw diet. Thanks again, and peace, always peace.
malvasia45 4 years ago
Lorax do a google image search for "alexander litvinenko" you are like his doppelganger
themalestrom 4 years ago