Piguazhang Wulongpanda applications - Mr. Zhou jingxuan

[piguafan]

LOL I think he should do some more research into the style.... Eagle and SNAKE!

Circular and Straight.

This style was a proven battlefield style... and well renowned for it (at the time) was any the styles you mentioned any good at that?

[MasterZhang]

this moves seems to rely on you being faster with your circular strike than they would be with any type of follow up motion (block, attack, etc) that travels in a straight line.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang our skeleton motion relies on hinges (joints) for motion. straight motion is not natural for the body. When you learn how to control every part of your body and create large circular motion you are able to reduce it's size and use micro circles for motion. The force you'll create would be larger than straight punch and you'll be fast as long as you are in constant movement

[MasterZhang]

@jingang Uh, dude, there's a plethora of martial arts - and good ones at that - that do straight motions. Boxing, Muay Thai, San Shou, etc...and even if you can do this "micro circle" thing, it still ends up being a technique that takes longer and more effort to do than another technique that accomplishes the same purpose.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang Uh, dude, there is no such thing as straight motion in human body, there cannot be a straight motion on a hinge, that's basic physics. Don't compare sports martial arts to traditional ones. Traditional arts strive to act in any given situation with a larger set of skills and larger weapon arsenal. I also strives to use the body in the most efficient way and that means using it's natural motion on a hinge. Human limbs do no move on rails

[MasterZhang]

@jingang so many things that are wrong with that statement than can be fit into a comment. First off, there's only no such thing as a straight motion if you take an absurdly rigid definition of "straight". Push kicks (present in like a buttload of martial arts all over the world) count as straight because the attack itself comes at you in a straight line. Second, see Matt Thornton's writings on "aliveness" in regards to sport vs traditional. Finally, try fighting a boxer. It'll blow your mind.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang sorry do disappoint you dude but there is no such thing as "absurdly rigid definition of "straight"", straight is straight and as such it's not "not straight", the same way there is no such thing as absurdly rigid definition of NO. Human skeleton motion is circular in nature, ignoring that would be very fullish.

[MasterZhang]

@jingang @jingang are you just trolling? The definition you use is absurdly rigid. What do you call jabs? Or push kick? Or, hell, a significant portion of wing chun hand strikes? Straight is determined by the direction the attack is coming from. Kindly stop making up your own definitions and start using definitions that everyone else uses.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang Haha, and you call me troll.... Straight is straight (read some geometry books) it has exact definition and it's straight in all 3 dimensions and not only 2 as you see it. None of the mentioned above is a straight punch. One more thing I have the privilege of knowing both sides of the martial arts whereas you only know the sport side and don't bother to try traditional in order to understand it better before you place judgment.

[MasterZhang]

@jingang again, use commonly accepted definitions, not specialized ones you arbitrarily decided to use. You may not call them straight attacks, but most people do. ever heard of 拳打一条线？Anyways, semantics is derailing the actual topic, which is the flaw in this technique relying on you being faster with a strike that travels a much longer distance than many of the follow-up moves that your opponent can do. Also, you shouldn't dismiss sport martial arts. They have a much better track record.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang I'm still waiting for you fight's videos or demonstrations

[jingang]

@MasterZhang btw, Master zhou has student who are Local (city of 11 million) Champions in sanda what is your knowledge and experience?

[MasterZhang]

@jingang I have several years of tai chi (Li Baoya, Wang Xi'an lineage) as well as half a year of Shaolin (Shi Deshan). Of course, this is all irrelevant; i don't have to be a good chef to know what tastes good, I also don't have to have trained for X amount of time under a traditional style to know that line is shorter than arc. He's trained Sanda Champs? OK, that's great. The next step is to analyze those fight vids and see just how much stuff unique to traditional they actually use.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang I have several years in yoga and a few days in boxing....I probably know all about it. Of course, this is all irrelevant; i don't have to be a pianist to know what playing Rachmaninoff feels like...It's enough that I know how to use a finger on the keyboard and recognize a few notes.

Master zhang, go practice for a few more years you'll get a new perspective. Just because you practiced a few years or months of traditional arts doesn't mean you know much.

[MasterZhang]

@jingang everything that we have discussed thus far is extremely basic and does not require expert knowledge. So those Sanda Champs of his...how much of what they successfully use is stuff unique to traditional, and how much of it is stuff that is universal because there's only so many ways to move a human body?

please reply to both comments in the same comment, if space permits. It's much easier to follow the discussion that way.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang It seems you ignore my my questions and demand I won't do the same to yours. You lack basic knowledge on human anatomy and martial arts and call yourself a master. You criticize people with knowledge and experience 10 times of yours and think you know it all. There is no point in this discussion, you've already made up your mind, you already KNOW. I wish you best of luck, go bother someone else cause I end it here.

[jingang]

@MasterZhang Uh, dude, there is no such thing as straight motion in human body, there cannot be a straight motion on a hinge, that's basic physics. Don't compare sports martial arts to traditional ones. Traditional arts strive to act in any given situation with a larger set of skills and larger weapon arsenal. I also strives to use the body in the most efficient way and that means using it's natural motion on a hinge. Human limbs do no move on rails

[piguafan]

I need to get over and train with this man....

I've watched this video about 20 times and his speed and power still is a shock to me.

Been trying to find a teacher in the UK but have had no luck "( but it may be a good thing as well..?

[nhandanarutofan]

What's the difference between Piguazhang and Piguaquan?

[jingang]

None. Same thing different name

[jamescardinell]

there is a Chinese martial arts proverb that goes: "When pigua is added to baji, gods and demons will all be terrified. When baji is added to pigua, heroes will sigh knowing they are no match against it."

-extracted from Wikipedia article on baji... beautiful styles

great video- I love the pigua application- I've practiced it as taolu, and my sifu has explained the movements, but this is excellent to see the traditional play... thank you so much!

[jingang]

Pa kua = Bagua zhang. Pigua (劈掛掌）and Bagua （八卦掌）are not the same styles.

[zchronos852]

¡Estupendo!, en el anime Kenichi, Hermit usa este estilo.

[chinonononozu]

ah ragnarok?

[piguaquan]

I myself practice Pigua quan and Baji quan. The 2 combined its truely magic !!! Pigua for long range and Baji for close range! Matches perfectly!

Nice to see this guy's applications!! Nice!

[jingang]

What kind of Tongbei are you practicing ?

This Pigua was influanced by Guo changsheng's 24 pattern Tongbiquan (Tongbeiquan)

[CrappyFlare]

Very similar to the tong bei form applications that I am working on. Thank you

[meltingEyeballs]

cool.

[coinman22]

I'd like to see this guy do a form!

[x0511137]

holy crap this is sick. is this also called Pigua Quan.

[nolomaru]

thank you so much for spread this wonderful art that little is known of him. :):):):)

sorry for my poor english.

[Yuxian09]

Awesome!