unions religion advertising democracy

[alvagoldbook2]

Man, this is a really good vid. That's why I'm an anarcho-syndicalist. It's a society run by the unions.

[oldhacks]

Exactly!

[dumb14wanker]

What if I don;t want to be run by the Unions? Where do I go then?

[alvagoldbook2]

you wouldn't be run by the unions. Really in an anarcho-syndicalist society there would be no unions. There would be no point.

[BioThoughts]

idk MXPX. Ever hear of Have Nots? they are pretty good up and comers from my hometown. SKA PUNK!

Anyway, I am jsut a plain old anti-statist. Nothin fancy. Just want freedom. No State, Nothing violently enforced. :D

[alvagoldbook2]

Not into much ska punk, with the exception of the Suicide Machines, and of course Op Iv.

Nothing violently enforced. Sounds nice. But do you think the state has a monopoly on violence? For instance, Pablo Escobar didn't have anything to do with the state, and he created death squads.

[BioThoughts]

The State doesn't have a Monopoly on violence. But the have a monopoly on legitamized violence. As in, If we saw a man pulling a guy out of his house, we would probably help him. I know I would. But if it was a cop, kinda changes things. We are taught to give these people more slack because they have the government uniform. Where as a private business of any kind has to earn respect the government is legitamized because its the government.

[alvagoldbook2]

What if it was an illegitmate government? Such as a dictatorship? What if it was a death squad that was pulling people out of the house...a death squad with a very violent reputation? If a cop pulls someone out of a house is it not presumed they have good reason to?

[BioThoughts]

I don't think I ma coming through properly here. What i mean by illegitamit is how the people view it. Some people view a dictator as legit and have no issue with facism. Sad but true.

I personally think that no man should trespass and harm a man on his own poperty or place of residence.

[alvagoldbook2]

I dunno. I think the only legitimate state is one that the people demand. A democracy for instance.

What if a man murders another man on his property? Should he be allowed to do that?

[BioThoughts]

Ummm, depends.

[BioThoughts]

What I am saying here is that a pig can be very clearly in the wrong. You could see the entire situation unfold and see the pig is in the wrong. But you are less likely to help your fellow man. Because that pig is wearing the uniform of the state.

The state isn't as dependent on reputation and providing a good service because they simply dont have to. Unlike a private instittution.

[alvagoldbook2]

I dunno about you, but the pig's uniform has nothing to do with it. I won't help out my fellow man because the pig has a gun at his hip, and can call on a bunch of friends to help him out at a moment's notice. Take the pig's gun away, and his ability to call a bunch of friends to help out, and I'll help at the drop of a hat.

Private institutions can easily manipulate people about their reputation. It's called public relations.

[BioThoughts]

But a private citizen might not be so fast to pull the gun and call his buddies. I am sayign that we give these pigs and officials more slack because they hsave the government uniform and that means they can get away with more bullshit then us. It creates an unfair situation.

I'm not talking about what you think is legit. Im talking about how we view the state. The state is just people that act in a way that wouldnt fly if they wernt the state. So why see them as legit. I didnt choose em.

[InsurgenistCujo]

I don't understand, you equate anarchism with lawlessness, nihilism, and rebel without a cause with us social anarchists. Maybe I'm not getting the message but I feel you equate us as unorganized when its the exact opposite. Also anarchists were and still are apart of unions. IWW and CNT for example.

[oldhacks]

no not really. I see some elements of "criminal" activity as protest of whatever laws are deeming people as criminals in the first place. It's difficult for me to break it down because my perspective has shifted so far to the left now because of all I've learned about the real merits of democracy.

and anarchism is about standing disorganized. it's about taking what you can get. living in the moment and standing on your own and doing whatever you have to to survive. thats anarchism in my eyes.

[InsurgenistCujo]

Well, thats a very nihilistic and crimethink(It's a hippy dippy collective) way to view anarchism. I have to disagree, anarchism has always been organized and believes in direct democracy, unlike what that pseudo-anarchist opportunist stoodles says. Its about empowerment and fulfilling our needs not siting around singing kumbaya so called "living anarchistic." lol

[oldhacks]

argh. god theres nothing I hate more then being compared to a smelly dumb ass hippy.

I grew up listening to dead kennedys and black flag and operation ivy and crucifucks. and they preached. "save yourself. society is fucked" and thats the idea that I abided by.

[InsurgenistCujo]

Yeah, I went to the anarchist book fair in LA and there was a few of those smelly bastards. Very good choice in music, I love them all, mostly Crucifucks.

[oldhacks]

anarcho theme song "I dont wanna work" the queers. best song they ever wrote

[alvagoldbook2]

Isn't that one of those early songs they did? I always like Wimpy Drives Thru Harlem.

[voteonthis]

I think its on their first record yea.

[alvagoldbook2]

fuck yeh. I lived on DK and Black Flag. Got more into the Ramones, Dead Boys, & Stooges than the Crucifucks.

[voteonthis]

dead boys / stooges. thats great rock and roll right there. i could never really get into the ramones. especially after I found out how much of a right wing nut their guitarist was. they always seemed to me like a nirvana type band that just never "made it". I really learned to like their song "pet cemetary" though. thats a really good song

[alvagoldbook2]

Yeh, Johnny was fucking crazed. Of course, he also was a fan of the Manson Family, and it's not like he wrote hardly any of their songs. Joey, their singer was a left wing activist. He came out against Tipper Gore back in the early 90s and wrote a song called Censorshit. They were the first band I saw live. I nearly passed out from heat exhaustion. Fucking trippy. The Ramones were more about being strange and comical than anything else. They're biggest thing was bitching about the music industry

[oldhacks]

yea they bitched about the industry because they never got paid.

[dumb14wanker]

Eh, I try not to think about it really. Its not like its a political band. Its just fun, badass music. So I just try to block out the right wing asshole's beleifs and Joeys support of Mr. Uber Alles Jerry Brown.

[dumb14wanker]

DK and Black Flag? Thats my shit right there:D. Oh how I do love hardcore punk. and pretty much all punk! (almost)

[alvagoldbook2]

I dig just about all punk so long as it's not poppy bullshit like MXPX.

[alvagoldbook2]

I couldn't agree more!

[urbster1]

let's start pushing back! i love this fucking channel

was listening to your podcasts from last year, really cool stuff. i love the way you tie your ideas together. makes so much damn sense, way more than anarchism and especially anarcho-capitalism, even though you all agree on a lot of the same things. i've only made it through the first two so far but am expecting to finish the rest in the next couple of days or so

[oldhacks]

you mean my blog talk radio shit?

[urbster1]

yeah

[JackBrindelli]

unions mean about as much in the uk now too, thanks to the labour party's betrayal of the workers, despite continuing to take money from the unions.

[oldhacks]

its the workers fault for not pushing back. the bigger the mob the bigger the threat the easier the opposition caves. the opposition obviously being the government. so then the objective is "what do we all AGREE ON as a people. once you figure out what you're willing to pay for through taxation, how you're taxed, how it's spent and for every person that contributes to have the opportunity to represent themselves as an individual contributor.

[JackBrindelli]

yeh, and the unions are weak because they elected individual, easily corrupted leaders, who were bribed or seduced by offers of power from the incoming labour governments through out the years, and were willing to sell out on the membership in order to land a safe seat in parliament, it happens all the time, not sure what the solution might be, simply starting a new union is a bit difficult since everyone is so dissillusioned because of the old ones.

[oldhacks]

leaders of the unions have criminal mind sets. they know they're fucked. or at least thats how they feel. so as people that are not going to get their day in court they just accept their position / governments bitch and then take to grabbing for whatever scraps are immediately offered up to them from the corporate infrastructure thats taken over. thats why I hate them god damn ads so much. cuz they represent the whole idea of profit over consumption. when its the consumer whos spinning the wheel

[oldhacks]

in other words we've been taken over by communist corporate money laundering whores.

[JackBrindelli]

communist? are you sure? i thought to be a communist it was a requirement to want to see the downfall of capitalism and money. unless they're frauds of course. and there's a lot of them about.

[oldhacks]

communism is when it's centralyzed into the "state" well whats "the state" the state is a geographical location with which people are all capable of buying from one retail chain.

retail chain = statism = communism.

they're all connected. its "socialism"=getting everyone on one train of though and making demands on an oppressive force= thats needed to stand up to the shit.

black panthers , the KKK, the UAW, the NAACP they're all just people making an agreement to stand together no matter what

[oldhacks]

capitalism turns into communism when its not safe guarded by socialism