Liberal Fascism (4) - Jonah Goldberg ** UNEDITED **

[ProNorden]

@historygenius, @herrschenkel, @hegemonymony, @dmfc593,

Goldberg clarifies a lot here.

But Nationalism is not synonymous with socialism as suggested in Pt.3. Nationalism can and should have both a regulated market economy and a thriving commons within a Constitutional Democratic Republic.

Any 'coercive socialism' is unethical. And it's almost always the Leftists who organize 'thug groups'('brown shirts'/ UAF) to disrupt or push-around dissenting speakers, demonstrations, etc.

Ask Ward Connerly.

[dmfc593]

5:02 "Liberals of the 1930's look to the soviet union(ie communism) for inspiration. Absolutely true, more true than they looked at Fascism or national socialism"

He has gone on and on about how they are the same yet here he obviously implies they are different...

[TylerNull]

@dmfc593 Dog poo and cat poo are "different" too. But they're both poo.

[pittland44]

There is one interesting dichotomy between communism & fascism. The three great fascist regimes (Yamato Japan, Nazi Germany & Fascist Italy) all rose in industrialized countries that felt they got the shaft in WWI that were all newcomers to the international stage (Japan was united in 1867, Italy in 1861 & Germany in 1870). Whereas the great communist revolutions occured in agrarian aristocracies with old dynasties (Russia in 1917& China in 1949)

[HerrSchenkel]

Ha, I like this guy's sense of humor. But I would not necessarily say that Fascism and Socialism are almost the same thing when you remove national/international aspect. Well, at least not in theory. I've heard Fascism described at "extremism of the middle" (and I love to mention that to people that say we should compromise, or be bipartisan or whatever), which makes sense, since the Fascists still allowed private industry, it was just heavily regulated.

[HerrSchenkel]

(cont) I suppose it's more of a facade of private ownership, but it definitely wasn't classless like Bolshevism claimed/tried to be. There's a potential for authoritarianism in the economic political spectrum. There was Pinochet with capitalism, The totalitarian Bolsheviks (and oh so many others) with Socialism, and the Fascists in the middle.

[historygenius]

"Let's beat up rich people and take their stuff." - statism in a nutshell

[TylerNull]

@historygenius

Notably, modern Liberalism in a nutshell, too.

[historygenius]

@TylerNull modern Liberalism is statism, fascism, communism, whatever you want to call it. Why don't us classic liberals take the word back from the word thieves?

[TylerNull]

@historygenius

Okay. All we need to do is liberate education from their federally sponsored monopoly run by teachers' labor union, liberate the dead-tree media from their 90% control, liberate the movie and tv industry from their absolute control, ...

Men of reason have been attempting to fight that battle for generations, but I like your spirit.

[historygenius]

@TylerNull Yeah, I'm sort of like the kid in Family Ties. A seventeen year old arch-conservative who isn't taking any "liberal" crap. And I attended a private school and am currently attending a public high school, and I'm not to keen on the blatant liberal propaganda presented as the ONLY way of thinking. My generation is comparable to fascist lemmings.

[hegemonymony]

@historygenius

Agreed!

Capital L Liberals are the antithesis of classical liberalism. Shame on them.

[KamradEvan]

LOL. What a great way to capitalize on the complete victimization of liberals in the USA, where it is worse to be called a liberal than a fascist.

It;s all very vagueness. Some fascists were pro-health care, some liberals are. AHA!

Just want to ask: the Nazis were anti-gay, anti-gay marriage, pro-military, tough-on-crime and against immigration. Tell me if that is left-wing.

[JackBlair2]

Liberals are statists.

[fp470]

Have you ever heard of the following; Stalin's persecutio of Jews, British Whigs & Labour's support for numerous wars, The Democrats (US) support for Jim Crow Laws, opposition to gay marriage before 1980s. Look outside the box of the last 10 years of 'left' and 'right'

[MascisMan1]

@KamradEvan Left wing people are not pro-military? Why would the left wing not back the military?Also why would the left wing not be "tough-on-crime?"

The point Jonah is making is that socialism/nationalism/fascism was the Nazi cultural environment. Ideas behind socialism are the same ideas pushed by the modern day left. Things like eliminating capitalism, universal healthcare, etc.

[quuaa1]

'nazi' comes from the german pronounciation of 'national socialist party' btw

[pushups2345]

KamradEvan: "Just want to ask: the Nazis were anti-gay, anti-gay marriage, pro-military, tough-on-crime and against immigration. Tell me if that is left-wing."

answer: yes - that describes the soviet union and guys like castro and che perfectly - and they used violent force to enforce those ideals onto the captive peoples.

the only difference was they didnt need immigration policies, they needed emigration policies to keep their captive people from escaping

[YamaniNetsi]

I've read Jonah's book - he is a brilliant author! Great videos!

[TJMonster51]

Ordered it about half way through this talk.

[Nicksuno]

Just a great speach.

[dragknuckle]

The dog in the John Barrymore movie "Dinner at Eight" (1933) was originally named Mussolini. They dubbed in a new name for the dog because Mussolini fell from grace with Hollywood between the movie's filming and release.

[KidsTrax]

How do the opinions of 1930s progressives somehow automatically translate into the beliefs of modern liberals now?

[TylerNull]

How?

They share the same ideology and the same patron saint, FDR. Thus, drawing the connection occurs by reason and a review of history, not "automatically".

Beyond that, if your ignorance is genuine, then check out their web site where they boast of their 1930's pedigree (progressive . org) in their latest article "Back to the 1930s".

[KidsTrax]

Modern Liberals aren't big fans of Eugenics and don't reflect H.G. Well's beliefs of authoritarian governments as Goldberg implied.

[TylerNull]

"Liberals aren't big fans of Eugenics" -- these Liberal rags seem rather giddy about it:

"Designer babies: Creating the perfect child" -- cnn . com

"US Clinic Offers Designer Babies" -- theethanshow

"Designer Babies: A Right to Choose?" -- wired . com

"authoritarian governments" -- according to Liberals, there is absolutely NOTHING that lies outside gov't authority. E.g., you already declared the gov't has the authority to nationalize industries; Liberals just criminalized soap in Oregon.

[KidsTrax]

Designer DNA isn't Eugenics.

Are your retarded? The whole point of liberalism is that the individual is above the government. Almost all "nationalizations" have been consensual from the businesses' end (even the bailouts).

Also can you provide an article on how liberals "criminalized soup" because I can not find a thing on it.

[TylerNull]

"... isn't eugenics" -- now we can add yet ANOTHER word to the growing list which maps your ignorance.

"the individual is above the government" -- unless they smoke cigarettes, or ride a bike without a helmet, or spank their children, or use one of the unlisted forbidden words, dependent on the proliferating rainbow of protected and unprotected sub-groups, or pray in public, or tell a joke that a liberal doesn't like?

The only part of you not divorced from reality is your dementia.

[KidsTrax]

Designer DNA isn't Eugenics, just like chemotherapy isn't trepanation.

"spank their children" as some who is studying psychology I can tell you that is unequivocally child abuse and has no psychological benefit.

"unlisted forbidden words" saying words like "nigger" in public isn't something anyone should want.

[TylerNull]

"...in public isn't something anyone should want" -- regardless of your latest decree, which is insightful all by itself, man Democrats recite the word "nigger" for a living, e.g., Chris Rock.

"...is unequivocally child abuse and has no ...." -- I didn't suggest your Liberal fascist ilk didn't LIKE government intrusion into child rearing; only that you do so.

[KidsTrax]

"The only part of you not divorced from reality is your dementia."

Ironically If I had to do a psycho analysis based on how all you give are generalizations and stereotypes Instead of facts I'd say you where either heavily indoctrinated conservative or are doing it based on bad experiences.

Point being your beliefs aren't genuine and don't use genuine facts.

Also when was soup criminalized as you stated? I haven't found a single article on it.

[TylerNull]

Hint to a clue, psych' major, "psycho analysis" is one word.

Your only purpose here is to assist me in chronicling the specific mental dysfunctions required of Liberal fascist devotees.

You're doing an OUTSTANDING job of it.

[KidsTrax]

"psychoanalysis" is a whole branch of psychology a "psycho analysis" (or simply "analysis") is used to describe an actual observation/secession.

Your like a walking GOP talking point only scarier is you seem to believe what the talking points say.

Also if you are in some way an advocate of spanking your children I plead you not to do it. It can lead to serious problems for your children.

[TylerNull]

Nice try on the psycho-babble. (Not really.)

[KidsTrax]

Look I don't have time to educate you on the merits of psychology but all I ask is that you don't spank your children if you have any.

Seriously I'm doing a term paper on parenting and it really is a terrible thing to do and leads to perversion.

[TylerNull]

Criminalizing the parent-child relationship isn't healthy for ANYONE.

Perversions? Liberal fascists federally proselytize the glory of them through promiscuity-only training in so-called "public" schools; in their monopoly controlled training facilities. Liberal fascists are STILL suing the Boy Scouts for their refusal to submit to homosexual rapist troop leaders.

As for your psychological illiteracy, do sue whatever teachers union defrauded your parents -- they have a VERY strong case.

[madisoc]

i shall purchase the book too.

[piggles07]

(continued) Dismantling civil liberties is statist. Intolerable of dissent is statist. Heaping it on just the Left is not fair because both sides are guilty, in their extremes, of wanting to exert their control over individuals in order to promote "values." But go ahead, stick with your two-dimensional world where complex political entities don't exist.

[piggles07]

Its about authoritarianism. Fascists and communists are both authoritarian ideologies, but take on opposite economic and moral "values" systems. Calling it "liberal" fascism is misrepresenting the political spectrum itself.  Political parties range from more than left-to-right, but also with degrees of individuality-to-statism. Communists and fascists are statists because they crush all power of the individual. Bush is a statist in suspending habeus corpus.

[iiiiihexiiiii]

"Bush is a statist in suspending habeus corpus"

I assume you're talking about the imprisoning of Islamic terrorists? Habeus corpus only applies to American citizens, non-citizens don't have this right. He hasn't suspended anything.

[WCScum]

It's funny how liberals forget that habeas corpus is a privilege of American citizenship, huh?

Liberals are morons.

[iiiiihexiiiii]

It's not funny, it's sad. They have no idea what this country stands for yet they believe it needs to be "changed" and since there seem to be a lot of them nowadays unfortunately they may do just that.

[FireGuyX]

There is a difference between European Socialism and American Liberalism, they are very different. I consider myself a democratic moderate. I always knew that Americas welfare policies has always been flawed, it doesn't help the middle class or the poor. To the point it's not just liberals that are corrupt, it's also conservatives too. Reagan and his trickled down economics actually widened the gap between the rich and poor and hurt education.

[DrCruel]

@iiiiihexiiiii Better yet, the precedent for imprisoning Muslim terrorists comes from the similar treatment of accused Nazi saboteurs during the administration of FDR.

[latewire]

"Liberal Fascism" is H.G. Wells' description of HIS OWN VIEWS. Watch the last clip.

Democrats and Republicans, as you say, are statist. Goldenberg's presentation here was talking, basically, about how Left = Right. They are rooted in the same minds. The only difference is who is associated with what, which is about as arbitrary as their favorite ice cream flavor.

I love how Republicans here are twisting it into thinking Left = Fascist.. that's not the whole story, Right = Fascist too.

[roguesteg]

That is not what he is saying at all. He is saying Bolshevism and Fascism are rooted in Socialism. He is saying the left and right ARE complete opposites. How did you not arrive at this after reading the book and watching the presentation?

[novanine9]

No it's not that modern liberals are denial of humanity's darker aspects. It's that they SEE humanity as such. Evil ideas are projected by evil mindsets - the whole "I'm the moon reflecting on water" Buddhist THING. Comes down to whether you believe that people are inherently good (capitalism) or evil (Socialims) & MUST BE CONTROLLED AND/OR ERRADICATED

[timbosforporn]

Thats not statism. Thats just breaking the constitution.

[critter505]

I think I shall purchase the book.

[piggles07]

(continued) such as the naming of the country the Third Reich which proceeded by Imperial Germany that was united under Kaiser Wilhelm the First and the First Reich, also known as the Holy Roman Empire.

[piggles07]

(continued)He mentions the axe as symbol of Mussolini's Italy, which is a symbol taken from the Romans. Its a recalling of the traditional power-holders of Italy. Also note Nazi Germany's obsession with "traditional" German values,

[piggles07]

(continued)

It is actually a back-lash against the communist idea that the working classes control the nation because they control the means of production.

[piggles07]

This guy's argument is based on a two-dimensional political spectrum, when political science actually recognizes a four-dimensional spectrum. Think x and y axises on a mathematical grid. He is correct in the authoritarian power of fascism in its comparison to communist powers in the Soviet Union, however the conservative component of fascism is gained from its entrusting of power to the traditional elite and protecting private property.

[critter505]

2 ends of the spectrum yes, but several subcatagories. He also explains the relivence of drawing these conclusions, which in and of itself is more important than the sum of its parts.

[timbosforporn]

Most conservatives trust government because we feel that government should be limited in what it can do. It is only then that government can be trusted. And protecting private property is not fascism by any stretch of the imagination. Its my property and I want the government to enforce my rights over my property from itself and from other citizens. That is what good governance is all about. When government acts on your behalf.

[dragknuckle]

Well said.

Communism requires a leader of virtue, while any man who possesses enough virtue to rule a communist state would refuse such a position.

The US Constitution was written in such a way that corrupt and foolish men could be elected president without destroying the nation.

[AmericanPatriot1976]

I love this guy.

[fiercegallantry]

Great background on the connections between Fascism & the New Deal. Rock on!

[truindep]

3:13!

[JayeHK]

I've always thought that the right/left wing spectrum was a false antithesis designed specifically against freedom. It says capitalism is supported by people we'll call Fascists, while socialism is supported by people we'll call Liberals. Even worse than the misuse of the "Fascist" smear is the deliberately misleading word "Liberal" for people so opposed to political and economic freedoms. I do, however, agree that conservative govts must also be monitored and obliged to protect those freedoms.

[sunstorm007]

What are your reasons for calling him a stupid fuck?

You're being just as stupid as the Bushites you berate. You call the Right anti science and anti logic yet refuse to use logical reasoning to try and refute Goldberg.

I must say, you're not representing the left very well. I know there's some pro-logic leftwingers out there, but I'm pretty sure you're not one of them.

[TylerNull]

It's not stupidity.

Liberalism is an aggressive rejection of logic, reason, common sense, and lessons of history; all in favor a whatever makes its devotee feel good about themselves at the moment. Depravity is a CHOICE.

If Liberals were merely stupid or ignorant, then Liberal "leaders" would accidentally side with humanity on occasion, on some issues. They never do.

Acutely aware of all this, Liberals MUST regress to complaints against any person who notices. It's their sanctuary.

[longinusmaximus]

you could say the same thing about conservative capitalists and their stupid christianity and god bless america bullshit. you can support any economic or political system with science and logic or religion and irrationalism. i think your being too biased in your definition of socialism. "we hold these truths to be self evident,all men are created equal" ect, i mean what the fuck is that,self evident? bullshit why don't you back that up with a little proof and logic you dogmatic classical liberal

[TylerNull]

"you could say the same thing about ..."

Anyone can say anything about anything (prior to Hate Crime Laws, Protected Class Laws, EEOC rules and the like, all beloved by Liberals), but the question is whether or not such statements have any tether to reality.

Pick any issue and we can examine the Liberal position, which will demonstrate my points.

[longinusmaximus]

what makes conservativs so in favour of logic and reason.what about god given rights, all men created equal, the 10 commandments and all that feel good bullshit huh.their are many socialists and capitalists who support their economic and political positions with logic and reason as well as dogma and superstition. it's moronic to say that all liberals and socialists are irrational and all capitalist conservatives are reasonable people. bush is a conservative, are you saying that man is logical?

[jakefree24]

Your whole rant is just a bunch of stupid shallow cliches and generalizations. You have a talk show level of logic and integrity.

[DataWaveTaGo]

I'm not LW nor RW.

But you're correct, I did a post almost as inane as TylerNutt (AKA Brain-Dead Nutter). That was my point.

Goldberg's still a stupid fuck though, and that is very telling for those who see him as being 'smart'.

[sunstorm007]

My point is that you're calling Goldberg a stupid fuck, yet not providing a reason why people should think that he is a stupid fuck.

Simply calling him a stupid fuck just because you don't like what he is saying is not a logical reason.

My problem is not with your manner, but with your intellectual honesty.

[DataWaveTaGo]

Point noted.

[456run]

this is fine intellectual work, with precision and history... thanks

[nakedBison]

Jonah Goldberg is so brilliant and witty. too bad he is not really Jewish! President Bush is our greatest President since the late great President Reagan. Ralph Nader

McCain '08!

[nkdmansam]

i guess not, ok here is my refuting of this arguement. GUANTANAMO BAY, that place where we imprison and torture islamo-liberals for years without trial or redress. That behavior is not "like fascism", that IS fascism. Is islamic society (islamo-fascism) more conservative than ours... or more liberal?? Are their govermnets working hand in hand with corporations as fascists would advocate or are they anti-corporatists?? To blanket all liberals as fascist is just as stupid as the reverse

[nakedBison]

what is really stupid is to object to giving evil people the punishment they deserve. the islamofascists actually deserve far worse treatment than they get at guantanamo, and thus should be thankful. President Bush is our greatest President since the late great President Reagan. Ralph Nader

McCain '08!

[christopherduke]

Wow, you ARE dumb! LOL. Zero truth to a single word you typed.

[nkdmansam]

comments disabled??

[Buddy212002]

Some say that progressive political ideals grew out of Christianity. Progressivism lead to radicalism, which lead to Communism which lead to Nazism. So that means Jesus was a Nazi?

[TylerNull]

Some say that your mother is a whore, thus ...

Your "logic" needs correction.

Beyond that, it is noteworthy how the Left so often distract from discussions of their vile politics by leaning on Christianity to insult Christians.

[paleoroundtable]

Good stuff.

[bnprenaissance]

A racist is anyone who is winning an argument with a liberal.

[InfidelOnTheGo]

The inevitable use of the word "Fascist" by those on the Left is used only because they are uncomfortable with having to defend there lunatic policies. It also makes themselves feel like they are knowledgeable about history. It is a tactic utilized by the small-minded and the underdeveloped.

[OmegaRage]

Any sort of idea I ever had about being on the wrong side of the political spectrum (I'm a small-l libertarian/conservative) as incorrect, selfish, heartless or even downright evil (as some wold suggest) has been truly and utterly knocked out of existence thanks to this man. He just hits the nail on the head and says it how it is. People on the left have for some time tried (and in many cases been successful) to rewrite history and brand us on the right as fascists. About time somebody said it.

[chorkybrenner]

You can tell that Goldberg is dead on because everyone that disagrees with him is resorting to outlandish personal attacks and just flat out ignoring what he says (I'd say 90% of liberals can't get over the damn cartoon on the cover!) And I don't know if this is true but I've heard people are going to book stores and moving his books around on the shelf and hacking websites that sell the book. If that's really going on then it's truely pathetic.

[nakedBison]

i would not be surprised of liberals are resorting to censorship as a means to silencing the truth being spoken by Jonah Goldberg. they do the same thing to any car that has politically conservative bumper stickers. President Bush is our greatest President since the late great President Reagan. Ralph Nader

McCain '08!

[Coolhandmark]

maybe goldberg should go get a real job and stop trying to profit off hate in the aftermath of his bitter college days when he became a neo con

[TylerNull]

Exposing the vile mysticisms upon which Liberalism is based is not "hate".

That Liberals invoke the term whenever their politics are questioned or discussed, and use it as a malediction against those who dissent with Leftist politics, is insightful. Especially so considering it is backed by federal muscle -- loved by Liberals -- called "Hate Crimes Law".

Liberalism = Fascism

[nakedBison]

liberalism believe in freedom of speech for other liberals, and in censorship for anybody who does not buy into their left-wing nonsense. and furthermore, President Bush is our greatest President since the late great President Reagan. Ralph Nader

McCain '08!

[KillWoundedEatDead]

president bush is the greatest president?!?!?!??! bush is a fascist you fucking retard everyone knows that. fascism = combinging governemnt with big business. thats what bush did.

[christopherduke]

Much like Obama is doing with AIG and many other corps? Wow, funny how you posted this 10 months ago. Who is the "F" ing retard now? Sweeeet justice. LOL

[Yogy07]

Goldberg's argument cannot be refuted. But leftists won't even try. Goldberg is a rationalist, and irrational post-modernists both hate and fear this kind of people. Incidentally, contemporary new right and liberalism are both founded on post-modern "reasoning", thus making Goldberg's point once more.

[Coolhandmark]

5 dollars says this dude gets busted on To Catch a Predator.

[TylerNull]

5 dollars says not a single Liberal can refute Goldberg's findings -- that modern Liberalism -- the polar opposite of classical liberalism -- has its origins in fascism & communism, themselves sister mysticisms, and that Liberal mythology/politics remain aligned with such vile beliefs to this day.

Unable to discuss or defend their despicable politics, Liberals resort to baseless maledictions against any who dare blaspheme against Liberalism.