Peter Engel, just before dying in rafting accident

[frankietube69]

I met Peter many years ago, the year he married and he was an extremely warm, funny and kind hearted man who was bursting with zest and good humour. Peter was a delight to be with and was intent on becoming a psychiatrist although he was already a talented actor. Before you criticise, consider the last time you messed up, yet managed to walk away from it. Driving, motorcycling, playing sports? Peter and his friends made an error of judgement but to err is human. Peter and family, god bless.

[hunterthelord]

WHEN THE WATER IS UP IN THE TREE'S STAY OUT OF THE WATER. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.

[jo3tag]

@hunterthelord Absolutely! That river is just an alley between two endless lines of strainers. It's a wonder they all didn't get drowned.

[wompeter1]

Read the Men's Journal article on these idiots. They FAILED to acknowledge the danger of debris; they FAILED to plan their route beforehand; they FAILED to have an emergency plan; they failed to do STANDARD safety walks along the route. This was ALL fueled by Jackass Mind and little-head thinking. In my mind, the rescue workers should have stood by and let them rescue themselves. In this age of Social Darwinism, they FAILED.

[MsMonkeyBean]

to their families, we are so sorry.

[seebassm]

I do crazy rapids on crazy boats. Over 23 years braught me the experience that wood is never part of a river and must be avoidable. When wood or trees are part of the rapids and block shore acess, something else then recreative rafting must take place. Maby unless equipped with chain saw all around the boat or lazer sword! Respect is a must out there! Sorry no compation it was suicide! My humble opinion ) : and advice to safety concious ( ;

[cherlovestrong]

BUT remember, those aforementioned rescuers are also volunteer "thrill seekers" as well. It is in their rule books that once THEY are in immediate danger, it is their choice alone whether or not to proceed. It is not their job description to enter into any activity that will likely result in severe injury or death to their own person.

[wompeter1]

@cherlovestrong Less the thrill-seeker mentality than the desire to do everything possible to save another person's life. Even if that person is a stupid jackass who shouldn't have been out there in the first place.

[cherlovestrong]

@wompeter1 And that is their choice alone. Not the other risk takers fault. What I said was in response to people blaming the rafters for the dangerous rescue that befell the rescue workers.

[SnowTao]

The thing that infuriates me is these idiots don't just risk their OWN lives, but the lives of the would-be rescuers -- the ambulance, fire dept, police, and etc. folks who DID NOT ASK to have to go out and try to rescue thrill seekers.

[raindep]

...what if police officers and firefighters immediately stopped responding to emergencies that resulted from abuse of alcohol...from wife beatings, DWI, violent crimes ...when critics of these 'thrill seekers', who are angered because local emergency resources were put in harms way, put down the budweisers at the volunteer fire department, and ask the entire world to stop participating in risky behavior--not just whitewater rafting, but drinking to excess--then we can start a conversation.

[wompeter1]

@raindep These thrill-seekers only would have harmed themselves if they'd been left to their own rescue. Not true of DWI, violent crime, or domestic abuse. Get a brain, "moran."

[ropeyarn]

Lets be clear about why rafting down a flooded river is dangerous. Hidden pointy obstructions near the surface abound in the muddy water. Debris in the form of tree limbs become battering rams from upstream waters. Headroom under bridges is reduced or eliminated. Landmarks are unrecognizable in the changed landscape. Emergency personnel will not be able to reach you.

[LittleCupCakez]

You should have hug him around the neck until he agreed not to go into the water.

[KramNosnevets]

I've thought a lot about this video since I shot it. When asked how I felt I said things like dumbfounded but the fact is what I was really feeling was shame

Confronted with the inconceivable people respond with anger. We like our boundaries. Audacious behavior (risking to save lives or to push what is possible) is humbling. It calls into question what we believe to be our limits - shattering illusions and forcing us to re-imagine what is possible in our own life

[smadorsk]

Mark: I read your commentary on the newspaper website (repeated above in part), and I agree almost entirely. I don't imagine Peter (I knew him), though, as personally heroic for boundary pushing, but emblematic of something that, yes, society values, if not in the literal sense then in a more abstract sense. I also don't think you can characterize your own life (or anyone else's for that matter), for having not pushed the boundaries, as simply floating passively by..Your post was brave itself

[yesdearonhudson]

Please don't beat up on the messenger.  He is a good person just reporting the facts. Remember there is a close line between heroism and disaster.

[rhinowwj]

This was a very dangerous condition, the river flooding through the trees, no way to get off once you are on the river, and very likely lots of large debris in the river further downstream. If they knew what they were doing, they understood the gravity of the risk. If they didn't know what they were doing, then it's their fault as well, any use of common sense would have told them to stop.

[oe2x]

Why do any of you detractors care about what happened to Dr. Engel? Based on the tenor of your comments it's obvious you don't.

To enlighten you about swift water rescue and putting the rescuers in harms way: You never jeopardize the rescuers safety to the extent that it turns them into a victim. Doing so only compounds the rescue attempt and may create more casualties. The rescuers calculate their danger and when it's minimized then they proceed with the rescue.

Sincerely - Jock Bradley

[smokeshowing184]

way to go retards have fun at the funeral!

[119buff479]

these guys should have never attempted this at all!!

[bailey648]

@vegandream1 first responders sign up to help people in times of need. They don't sign up to put their asses on the line for people's stupidity! And it's because of people with attitudes like yours that the volunteer service is going by the wayside. Anytime someone gets hurt or killed in the line of duty, people like you say that same old line. How bout shutting the hell up and being thankful for people that put their necks out on the line, instead of being a douchebag!

[NobleActual11]

Listen fist responders aren't assholes and those guys who went in the river shouldn't have gone in

[brycro]

I have followed this story and I am saddened by the loss of life. This was obviously a poor idea and ultimately someone payed for their mistakes with his life. What does not sit well with me is putting the responders at risk of death. This was a barrel over the niagara falls type move and they did not calculate the risk correctly or responsibly. RIP

[lenoygalvez]

Dr. Engel was a world class doctor who saved many lives. His life was spend in the service of others. He was an amazing soul. I love you my friend.

[hellcat1960a]

@lenoygalvez Lenoy thank you for saying those wonderful things about Dr. Engel. Having worked with him for many years I know what a kind and compassionate psychiatrist he was. He fought for his patients and staff alike. Some of his pts wrote letters to his family. I will make sure they get them. We your staff are finding it hard to believe that you are gone. I walked into your office yesterday not knowing what kind of reaction I was going to have and I just cried. ty 1st responders.

[lenoygalvez]

Dr. Engel was a world class doctor who saved many lives. His life was spend in the service of others. He was an amazing soul. I love you my friend.

[andydickey]

First point - I don't think there is any law against rafting on the Croton River - nor should should there be. Unfortunately, these guys did not figure out the risk they were taking - but it was their right to take the risk. I feel bad for the guy that died and his family.

[Rivrlivr]

@andydickey -there is no law against rafting on the tidal sections of the river. (from fireman's Island down). Boating is forbidden, for good reason, at all times in the area where those guys "put in".

[paulatubie]

I guess that thought would make nasty people feel better about the unkind things they say about the recently deceased and the effects it may have on their loved ones. I can tell you that my mother died last March and I still google her name to see if there are any new comments on her tribute pages.

[treasuresntales]

It's easy to be self righteous, while sitting comfortably in front of your computer. However, it's not necessary to spew such nastiness the day after one of these men died.

I agree that this was STUPID to the nth degree. But please... Let's show a modicum of respect for the deceased man's family.

Thank GOD all of our rescuers made it through unscathed. Those folks are our family & friends, and we love them dearly.

THANK YOU Croton first responders for being the day-to-day heroes you are!

[paulatubie]

Could people please censor themselves so that their comments don't hurt the survivors of the deceased?

[trendon]

@paulatubie I assure you that the families couldn't give a fuck about what YouTube commenters are saying.

[Lisah1016]

These guys were probably older than anyone watching. The one man who died was in his 50's, rest in peace. It's sad, too, that rescuers risked their lives trying to save them.

[AAngry]

Thinning the herd...

[LCQMusic]

I can still recall the death of one young man who drowned in the Croton River in the late 70s/ - who went swimming after a large storm like this one. To go to his funeral at the age of 12 was something I would never want anyone to have to experience. His family ended up moving away after the tragedy - just too painful.

Please be smart and safe instead of dumb and dead.

[PerfectPixieWings02]

They all got what they deserved... out of all those people INCLUDING THE ONE FILMING, YOU SHOULD HAVE STOPPED THEM, or CALLED FOR HELP... smart on all of you...

[KramNosnevets]

@PerfectPixieWings02, Thanks for the Monday morning QB. What EXACTLY would you have done to stop them??? I guess we could have called the cops, but the bottom line is these guys knew what they wanted to do. I don't think they cared about police or anyone else. They were not sneaking around. Plenty of people (including me) commented to them on how dangerous and stupid it was - But that was self evident. Were not children and get to make choices. Unfortunately It is not a Perfect Pixie Wing World.

[PerfectPixieWings02]

@KramNosnevets ,YOU SHOULD HAVE CALLED THE COPS....HELLO...yeah people commented on how dangerous but if there were police officials they could have stopped them, and I hope everyone of them gets a BIG FINE including the family of the guy who is dead for doing that.. also for the 3 EMTs who got HURT RISKING their LIVES....as well as all the other EMT and rescuers there.

[Madhatter757]

dumb fucks, got what they deserved

[trendon]

I am going to sound horribly callous, but people die. These guys tried something out that they thought would be cool and fun and interesting and it went poorly. Shit happens. If I were on that river and saw them, I'd cheer them on. Judging by this video, they were at the very least, prepared; they had some safety gear.

The mortality on this planet is 100% and hasn't moved. In fact, even with the death, I still think it was a cool thing to try.

[guyd44]

@trendon I agree except for the fact that when people act stupidly they not only put their lives at risk, but they also put the loves of the first responders at risk who have to try and save their asses !!!

[musicadynamica]

@guyd44 Right, first responders are mostly assholes and if given a choice not to play hero, they should take it.

I surf big heavy waves, I accpet the risk, so did this guys.

Some of us are on this planet for the fun, not to be tourists.

[guyd44]

@musicadynamica AWEsome DUDE Hey next time you're in New York I know a couple of "first responders" who would love to meet you

[wompeter1]

@trendon The problem with this "cool thing" is that local emergency rescue workers were ALSO put at risk, pulling these testosterone-addled MORONS out of their "cool and fun and interesting" stunt. I am going to sound horribly callous, but these idiots should have been left to RESCUE THEMSELVES and not involve less-stupid public servants in their salvation.

[jo3tag]

@trendon Mixed feeling about your comment. I'm all for taking risks to get a thrill, but there's risk taking, and just plain igorance of the situation. The finest safety gear in the world will not get you off an tree with what appears to be a river running 2,000 CFS or more pushing you against it. You can say they just risked their lives and one lost, but they risked the rescuers lives who would not have gotten near that river had they not been there to pull their dumb asses out.

[KramNosnevets]

Apparently one of these guys died earlier tonight. My thoughts go out to his family and thanks to the FD/EMS Croton volunteers who tried so hard to save him and managed to rescue his friends.

[PerfectPixieWings02]

@KramNosnevets and i QUOTE "Rob Ferguson: ITS SAD WHEN A GROUP OF ADULTS CANT USE THEIR HEADS A LITTLE BETTER!! I WAS THERE AT THE RUSHING WATER SOUNDED LIKE THUNDER. THE WALLS AT THE DAMN COULD BARELY CONTAIN THE WATER. *** NOTE TO THE PUBLIC WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING DANGEROUS CALL THE POLICE AND PREVENT THE LAUNCH OF THE BOAT THEREFORE SAVING A LIFE *** NO ONE FROM THE PUBLIC PREVENTED IT EITHER!"

[Keydet83]

As a former member of the Croton Fire Department and currently a member of the Coast Guard, it's a sad day when we have to interfere with natural selection and rescue these people from the shallow end of the gene pool.

[bailey648]

Morons.. Because of these jackasses, my friends and family of the Croton FD/EMS were out there risking their own lives to save these jackasses.