You boil it all down, Calvinism reduces man to a mere robot. And, makes God a monster in that the so-called "free offer" of the Gospel is not a bona fide offer since God withholds his saving grace to the non elect. Actually, it makes God an insincere liar. What blasphemy! Even Wesley saw through that. O, I almost forgot, Calvinism says Christ only died for a select few contrary to many Bible passages that Christ died for all mankind. It's bad religion plain and simple.
This subject fascinates me but my professional obligations prevent me from going back to school or spending the at least five hours a day studying this topic for a good 6 months which it deserves. Let's look at it this way: you take the "faith alone position", you do so when St. Paul never contradicts (or considers to be accurate) the myriad teaching of Lord Jesus himself which show the OBLIGATION of Christians to perform good works-e.g. the parable of the Good Samaritan.
Are you saying that you KNOW that this is Dr. White's position (that he believes Dave Hunt to be unsaved) not JUST from this cartoon, but from all of the years you've studied and listed to his material and HEARD HIM SAY THIS OR READ HIM WRITE THIS?
Are you saying that you have MORE than just YOUR interpretation of this cartoon?
@rpavich Sir, the reason White posted the cartoon was to make a point. What point do you think he was making? What does "dead end" mean in the cartoon? What is the significance of a shackled Hunt falling into the pit? I have given you this evidence. So far it IS THE ONLY EVIDENCE ON THE TABLE. If you have counter-evidence, then put up or shut up.
Once again....all you have to do is to back up YOUR INTERPRETATION of a cartoon, with something Dr. White has said in print or in audio...that Dave Hunt is NOT SAVED.
So far what I see is you making assumptions based on a cartoon...
If you have anything but your interpretation of this cartoon...then end this...if not...man-up and admit that you didn't check any part of this.
@rpavich I did not post my interpretation of the cartoon -- I POSTED THE CARTOON ITSELF IN MY VIDEO!!!! You are acting like the cartoon is mine. No! It is James White's cartoon that HE posted on HIS website. Now, where is your counter-evidence? Put up or shut up.
Relax....you posted the cartoon...then went on to say what Dr. James White meant by it.
All without checking on just what Dr. White believes about Dave Hunt's salvation.
At the very least that's sloppy, and at the worst, it's dishonest.
If all you've got is a cartoon, and your opinion of what Dr. White meant....then you've got nothing and you should either go to Dr. White and ask him directly, or take it down.
He's Catholic, now I get it. He shouldn't be worrying about whether Hunt or White believe the other is a Christian he should be searching the Scripture to see if HE is in the faith. Will Mary save him? the Co Redemptrix?
@rpavich I stated clearly in the video that BASED ON THE CARTOON, James White does not even think Hunt is Christian. If you look at that cartoon, and see a true Christian portrayed, then God bless you. I and about 99% of everyone else look at that cartoon and see a false teacher (non-Christian) who is about to fall into the pit. I stated in the video that the cartoon is from James White's own blog. The context is well known since his debate with Hunt has been very public.
@rpavich You Calvinists are so boring. Everytime -- I mean everytime -- you lose an argument, you roll up into your self-defensive ball labeled with "you just don't understand me!" Sorry, sir, but we understand Calvinism very well. It is you who don't understand. Now that you know that Calvinism is filled with self-contradictions, as the video PROVED (and you could not rebut), then why do you remain a Calvinist?
@rpavich Uh... No. You did not "show" me anything. You made a bald, unsubstantiated, incorrect statement. On the other hand, I have proved that James White does not think Hunt is Christian by showing the cartoon, which, btw, shows Hunt going past the "dead end" sign and falling into the "pit". If you knew James White's theology, you would know he believes in OSAS, and thus, a person who is at a dead end and falling into the pit, could never have been saved in the first place.
I'm sorry...but James White does not doubt Dave Hunt's status as a Christian...I've heard his debates with Dave Hunt, I've read his writings concerning Dave Hunt and I know that you are wrong....if you're too proud to say so....fine....but you don't know what you're talking about. I know that you've not listened or read any of Dr. White's materials in depth.
If you think you can decide what Dr. White believes of DH by that cartoon, then you are dead wrong.
@rpavich More bald, unsubstantiated statements. Give me a quote from White where he says Hunt is Christian. I have given proof of my point, you have given NOTHING but bald, unsubstantiated statements. I have read WAY more of James White regarding Hunt than you have. Period. You are the one who does not know what he is talking about. You very noticeably refuse to rebut my points regarding the cartoon: "dead end" "falling into the pit" etc. Also, why not try and rebut the video?
If you've read MUCH MORE of James White's writings about Dave Hunt then I'm sure you can find a quote where James denies Dave Hunt's salvation...something more than this cartoon.
Can you do that?
I realize that you've made certain assumptions regarding the cartoon, but there is no reason that I should "rebut" what's not there...you and I both know that Dr. White has NEVER said that Dave Hunt is not saved....
PS: I'm just speaking to the first false thing I found...
@rpavich Sir, I do not have to find a quote where White says "Hunt is not Christian" since a picture speaks a thousand words. I have presented the cartoon which CLEARLY conveys the message that Hunt is not saved. But I have read about every single word White has said about Hunt and never came across a statement where White says Hunt IS a Christian. You, on the other hand, have to come up with at least some evidence to substantiate your point, which you have failed to do so far.
I have a great idea...but i'm going to guess that you won't take advantage of it...not many fake-tough keyboard jockey's would....
Call the dividing line yourself...ask Dr. White if he thinks Dave Hunt is saved, and also bring up the points in your video for him to deal with live; voice to voice.
But I'm sure that you'll have some "reason" that you won't do that.....won't you?
Sir, the silence of your evidence is DEAFENING! How many posts have you made now? How many pieces of evidence have you presented? NONE! ABSOLUTELY NONE! Do you think YouTube people are idiots? Blind? It is OBVIOUS to everyone reading this train that you have NO EVIDENCE. And now, incredibly, you want ME to find the evidence for you?!?!?! Are you kidding? It's YOUR point, sir, not MINE. You do your own homework. With that said, I will try to call as you suggest -- but you should too.
Any problem with that? You accuse a Christian of something in public, and you haven't even checked with that person to see if you are slandering them or representing them fairly.
@rpavich So you agree that you have been SILENT on posting ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Good. I'm glad we agree on that. You, YET AGAIN, make a bald, unsubstantiated statement that I have made a false accusation. Prove it! How many more posts will you make before you even attempt to prove your point? I have given my evidence. Where is yours? Put up or shut up.
@rpavich I am glad you are admitting you have no evidence, You think I am wrong about the cartoon. Fine. That is your opinion. I don't have a problem with others having a different opinion. Now, please comment on the points the video made about White contradicting himself.
You missed my point...you (making the first positive assertion) erred. You based what you say Dr. White believes WITHOUT checking that this is so.
All I said was that its' ludicrous to say that just because I cannot cut/paste an exact quote stating that "Dave Hunt is definitely Christian" that's this is not so.
You are wrong...and you know it.
You are too proud to just check with Dr. White to make sure.
@rpavich Again, I am glad you admit that you have no evidence to support your claims. I do have evidence and I have showed it on my video. The cartoon WAS POSTED BY JAMES WHITE on ***HIS*** WEBSITE! The cartoon speaks for itself. A picture speaks a thousand words. I did check with White SINCE I WENT TO HIS WEBSITE AND SAW THE CARTOON THAT HE POSTED! Show me counter-evidence or shut up. Put up or shut up. Very simple concept.
@rpavich Wow, "plow head" Sir, all you are PROVING to the YouTubers reading these posts is that you are childish. And that you have completely lost this argument. I am correct that White posted the cartoon on HIS SITE. How do
I know that? Because that's where I got the cartoon!!! Since White posted it on his site, he is responsible for it and the message it sends. I therefore, DID check with White about this since I went to HIS SITE and read his material, part of which is this cartoon.
@rpavich Neither will I hold my breath waiting for YOU to do the right thing and garner some evidence to support your wild accusations. Again, sir, it is YOUR point, not MINE. The burden of proof is on you regarding your own points. I have proven my point with hard evidence. Now, you sink to ad hominems -- like children in a play-yard -- saying I don't have the courage. This is getting fun. You just keep digging your hole deeper. Again, YouTube folks aren't idiots, sir.
That's the problem....you don't have "hard evidence" you've looked at a cartoon, haven't checked with the person who posted it and moved on to misrepresenting what that person believes....
And then when I point this out...you go on the defensive instead of reflecting to see if you've gathered all of the actual facts before posting this video....
No...lol..I can't cut a quote that says "Dave Hunt is definitely a Christian"...I can only tell you what I know.
@rpavich Great. You admit you have no evidence. I do have evidence. If you don't think my hard evidence is sufficient,, Fine. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
I think you are simply showing a lack of understanding of the Reformed position.
1) God regenerates a dead sinner to spiritual life (normally by means of the preaching of the Gospel message from the Word of God, the Scriptures).
2) The RESULT of regeneration is repentance and saving faith in Christ Jesus. This is how a sinner is Justified before God. Faith is a necessity, but it is not something man can do on his own. God does the whole work, man does NONE.
@rkg62976 I understand the Reformed position very well. I think you, though, do not understand James White's position (which is what the video was about). As I demonstrated in the video, James White CLEARLY said, in his exegesis of John 6, that faith comes BEFORE regeneration. Which is in contradiction to the Reformed position. This proves that James White contradicts his own Reformed soteriology which insists that faith comes AFTER regeneration.
@rkg62976 Again, I am simply demonstrating in this video JAMES WHITE'S position and then showing how HE (not me) contradicts himself. James White defined regeneration as "resurrection to spiritual life." I even quote James White in my video as writing exactly that: Regeneration is resurrection to spiritual life. See in my video starting at 2:15. Are you challenging the veracity of my quote of James White? Do you not think he actually wrote that?
@deliveringit And I am refuting your claim that Dr. White is contradicting himself. In the first instance, he is speaking about regeneration, and how it leads to saving faith. In the second instance, he is moving on to speak about saving faith and how it leads to eternal life.
Dr. White is NOT being inconsistent, he is merely speaking about two different events in the order of God's salvific work in the sinner.
@deliveringit "James White CLEARLY said, in his exegesis of John 6, that faith comes BEFORE regeneration.." You are simply WRONG! That is NOT what Dr. White said! He said that saving faith leads to eternal life. But before saving faith comes, one must be regenerated.
Again, ONE MORE TIME:
1)Regeneration, THEN,
2)Repentance and Saving Faith, THEN,
3)Eternal Life (Justification by Faith Alone).
*There is an order that cannot be ignored, but one that you are not getting.
@rkg62976 Did you not write in the previous comment: "1) God regenerates a dead sinner to spiritual life... 2) The RESULT of regeneration is ...saving faith"??? Then you wrote "1) Regeneration", "2)...Saving Faith" , "3)Eternal Life." So can't you see that you have Eternal Life TWICE! IF Regeneration includes being made ALIVE with eternal life and "results" in faith, then how do you have eternal life AGAIN following faith and regeneration in 3)? You have TWO eternal lifes. No.
@rkg62976 Your right, i didn't understand. But now that you have crisply explained it to me, I do now. As you explained, man is given life in regeneration (step one). After that and as a result of that, he has faith (step two). Then, finally, he gets life -- Again! (step three). So the Reformed position, being very sophisticated, holds that man is given life by God TWICE! How inspiring. Sign me up!
By the way isn't the upshot of the Calvinist position is that the vast majority of humankind throughout history is damned? The God of Calvin reaches out throughout history and "selects his elect" and then zaps then with the grace to believe and therefore be saved.
Looks to me like the God of Calvin defaults most of his highest creation to the Devil. If Satan wasn't so selfish, he would just declare victory and let God do his work for him.
@RPenta "...the vast majority of humankind throughout history is damned?..."
It's always amazing to me that a person would assert that Calvinists claim to know the exact number of the elect. No Calvinist I know of would claim such purely divine knowledge. Rev.7:9 clearly tells us that the saved are so multitudinous that "no man could number".
Your argument is flawed because any Calvinist would admit that we don't know the identity of the elect. It is divine knowledge.
If you read further in Revelation or the Apocalypse as it is called by Catholic/EO you will see that the reference to the multitudes is to those who survived the great tribulation. In fairness I should look at what the Pope of Geneva actually wrote on this topic, if any. I admit I am inferring the number must be small since the number of Christians who have followed Reform theology is very small and much smaller as compared to the number of humans who have inhabited the earth.
@RPenta If you are referring to the theory of a seven year period of tribulation, I refute this idea. It is taken from a misinterpretation of Dan.9:24-27 (specifically, the 70th "week").
Besides this, my Bible tells me that God still has His people even within the communion of Rome: "come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins" (Rev.18:4). In order for God's people to "come out", means that they are still there ;)
Think a second; how could that be? Among the things (like there is no end) that sets the Prots off is the idea of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist--which involves the Mass (which multiplies the one sacrifice of Jesus), priestcraft, sanctifying grace and other superstitions.
By the way, why don't the Evangelicals treat the Blessed Virgin Mary with at least some of the respect that the despised MOOSLUMS do?
And besides that, just with respect to "Christendom" you will I am sure agree most of the professed were suffering under the yoke of Popish fables, Romanist superstitions and Eastern Orthodox traditions of men (LOL)--that is until the Reformers rediscovered the true Gospel after about 15 centuries of obscurity.
@RPenta First, the development of Popery was a gradual one, not one that was invented overnight.
Second, Rev.12 tells us that the true church (the "woman in the wilderness") would be isolated for 1260 YEARS (the day=year principle is found throughout Protestant writings. *Rev.12:6,14 tells us the time period of 1260 days/years). The 1260 years is seen as the time of the reign of Antichrist as well, before she received her "deadly wound", and the time of the "two witnesses" (Rev.11).
this is so brilliant and wonderfully laid out. your exigesis is simplistic and yet so profound. this is absolutely fantastic you should consider taking up theology. God bless you
nice job destroying calvinism. but is the church the pillar of truth? or is the Word of God the pillar of truth? If the church is the pillar of truth, then why did john admonish churches in the first couple of chapters of revelation? obviously, because they strayed from the truth. But Jesus said these words "Thy word is truth." In the Bible we see the church rebuked for error, but the word is never rebuked for error.
Thanks. Yes, the Word of God is always true, even when It says, "...the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15)." Individual churches can certainly stray from the Truth, but the Universal Church cannot. Jesus promised as much when He said the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church.
@deliveringit Dave Hunt is a false teacher unfourtunatly so is the RCC.Our Salvation is from the Lord alone,WE ARE SAVE BY GRACE,a gift of God,through Faith,another gift of God and then repentace of sin is given,still another gift of God.
@deliveringit No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws Him and then Jesus will raise up 100% of those given.The reason that all men are not saved,is because all are not drawn by the Father to Jesus.
@TheWitnis Consider that Jesus said that He (Jesus) will draw all men to Himself once they have lifted Him up (on the cross). That is the difference between the Old and New Testaments. There is a difference after all. Before the cross, the Father judged and also drew some. After the cross, Jesus takes over as judge but also is the one Who draws, and He draws "all men" (Jn 12:32). Please see my videos on John Chapter 6 for more info.
You boil it all down, Calvinism reduces man to a mere robot. And, makes God a monster in that the so-called "free offer" of the Gospel is not a bona fide offer since God withholds his saving grace to the non elect. Actually, it makes God an insincere liar. What blasphemy! Even Wesley saw through that. O, I almost forgot, Calvinism says Christ only died for a select few contrary to many Bible passages that Christ died for all mankind. It's bad religion plain and simple.
Hirduin 1 month ago
This subject fascinates me but my professional obligations prevent me from going back to school or spending the at least five hours a day studying this topic for a good 6 months which it deserves. Let's look at it this way: you take the "faith alone position", you do so when St. Paul never contradicts (or considers to be accurate) the myriad teaching of Lord Jesus himself which show the OBLIGATION of Christians to perform good works-e.g. the parable of the Good Samaritan.
RPenta 7 months ago
Are you saying that you KNOW that this is Dr. White's position (that he believes Dave Hunt to be unsaved) not JUST from this cartoon, but from all of the years you've studied and listed to his material and HEARD HIM SAY THIS OR READ HIM WRITE THIS?
Are you saying that you have MORE than just YOUR interpretation of this cartoon?
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich Sir, the reason White posted the cartoon was to make a point. What point do you think he was making? What does "dead end" mean in the cartoon? What is the significance of a shackled Hunt falling into the pit? I have given you this evidence. So far it IS THE ONLY EVIDENCE ON THE TABLE. If you have counter-evidence, then put up or shut up.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit ;
Once again....all you have to do is to back up YOUR INTERPRETATION of a cartoon, with something Dr. White has said in print or in audio...that Dave Hunt is NOT SAVED.
So far what I see is you making assumptions based on a cartoon...
If you have anything but your interpretation of this cartoon...then end this...if not...man-up and admit that you didn't check any part of this.
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich I did not post my interpretation of the cartoon -- I POSTED THE CARTOON ITSELF IN MY VIDEO!!!! You are acting like the cartoon is mine. No! It is James White's cartoon that HE posted on HIS website. Now, where is your counter-evidence? Put up or shut up.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
Relax....you posted the cartoon...then went on to say what Dr. James White meant by it.
All without checking on just what Dr. White believes about Dave Hunt's salvation.
At the very least that's sloppy, and at the worst, it's dishonest.
If all you've got is a cartoon, and your opinion of what Dr. White meant....then you've got nothing and you should either go to Dr. White and ask him directly, or take it down.
Man up.
rpavich 1 year ago
He's Catholic, now I get it. He shouldn't be worrying about whether Hunt or White believe the other is a Christian he should be searching the Scripture to see if HE is in the faith. Will Mary save him? the Co Redemptrix?
seephas 1 year ago
Just to correct you....right out of the gate you state that James White doesn't think that Dave Hunt is a Christian...this is false.
Do you know what the background of that picture is? What the context is?
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich I stated clearly in the video that BASED ON THE CARTOON, James White does not even think Hunt is Christian. If you look at that cartoon, and see a true Christian portrayed, then God bless you. I and about 99% of everyone else look at that cartoon and see a false teacher (non-Christian) who is about to fall into the pit. I stated in the video that the cartoon is from James White's own blog. The context is well known since his debate with Hunt has been very public.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
Quote:
I stated clearly in the video that BASED ON THE CARTOON, James White does not even think Hunt is Christian.
Then you misunderstood the cartoon and the context and your still wrong...
And now that you know that you've misunderstood...why would you leave this video video up?
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich You Calvinists are so boring. Everytime -- I mean everytime -- you lose an argument, you roll up into your self-defensive ball labeled with "you just don't understand me!" Sorry, sir, but we understand Calvinism very well. It is you who don't understand. Now that you know that Calvinism is filled with self-contradictions, as the video PROVED (and you could not rebut), then why do you remain a Calvinist?
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
Well...I know where your coming from now...thanks for clearing that up..
I show you that you made an accusation and were incorrect, and the best you can do is begin piling on the ad hominem.
Please...you can do better than that.
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich Uh... No. You did not "show" me anything. You made a bald, unsubstantiated, incorrect statement. On the other hand, I have proved that James White does not think Hunt is Christian by showing the cartoon, which, btw, shows Hunt going past the "dead end" sign and falling into the "pit". If you knew James White's theology, you would know he believes in OSAS, and thus, a person who is at a dead end and falling into the pit, could never have been saved in the first place.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
I'm sorry...but James White does not doubt Dave Hunt's status as a Christian...I've heard his debates with Dave Hunt, I've read his writings concerning Dave Hunt and I know that you are wrong....if you're too proud to say so....fine....but you don't know what you're talking about. I know that you've not listened or read any of Dr. White's materials in depth.
If you think you can decide what Dr. White believes of DH by that cartoon, then you are dead wrong.
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich More bald, unsubstantiated statements. Give me a quote from White where he says Hunt is Christian. I have given proof of my point, you have given NOTHING but bald, unsubstantiated statements. I have read WAY more of James White regarding Hunt than you have. Period. You are the one who does not know what he is talking about. You very noticeably refuse to rebut my points regarding the cartoon: "dead end" "falling into the pit" etc. Also, why not try and rebut the video?
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
If you've read MUCH MORE of James White's writings about Dave Hunt then I'm sure you can find a quote where James denies Dave Hunt's salvation...something more than this cartoon.
Can you do that?
I realize that you've made certain assumptions regarding the cartoon, but there is no reason that I should "rebut" what's not there...you and I both know that Dr. White has NEVER said that Dave Hunt is not saved....
PS: I'm just speaking to the first false thing I found...
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich Sir, I do not have to find a quote where White says "Hunt is not Christian" since a picture speaks a thousand words. I have presented the cartoon which CLEARLY conveys the message that Hunt is not saved. But I have read about every single word White has said about Hunt and never came across a statement where White says Hunt IS a Christian. You, on the other hand, have to come up with at least some evidence to substantiate your point, which you have failed to do so far.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
I have a great idea...but i'm going to guess that you won't take advantage of it...not many fake-tough keyboard jockey's would....
Call the dividing line yourself...ask Dr. White if he thinks Dave Hunt is saved, and also bring up the points in your video for him to deal with live; voice to voice.
But I'm sure that you'll have some "reason" that you won't do that.....won't you?
1-877-753-3341
rpavich 1 year ago
Sir, the silence of your evidence is DEAFENING! How many posts have you made now? How many pieces of evidence have you presented? NONE! ABSOLUTELY NONE! Do you think YouTube people are idiots? Blind? It is OBVIOUS to everyone reading this train that you have NO EVIDENCE. And now, incredibly, you want ME to find the evidence for you?!?!?! Are you kidding? It's YOUR point, sir, not MINE. You do your own homework. With that said, I will try to call as you suggest -- but you should too.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
Right...silence is deafening....
How about false accusations....?
Any problem with that? You accuse a Christian of something in public, and you haven't even checked with that person to see if you are slandering them or representing them fairly.
That's something that Dr. White would never do...
That illustrates the situation nicely.
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich So you agree that you have been SILENT on posting ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. Good. I'm glad we agree on that. You, YET AGAIN, make a bald, unsubstantiated statement that I have made a false accusation. Prove it! How many more posts will you make before you even attempt to prove your point? I have given my evidence. Where is yours? Put up or shut up.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
Yes...I am silent, if you think that your burden of proof has been met:
1.) I have a cartoon.
2.) I never contacted the person who posted it to see what they meant by posting it.
3.) I just went ahead and assumed what it meant.
4.) I refuse to at least do the right thing and check with the person whom I'm ascribing motive to to see if I'm correct.
No...as I said...I can't find a quote like that...we only have your mis-interpretation of the cartoon and your refusal to check.....
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich I am glad you are admitting you have no evidence, You think I am wrong about the cartoon. Fine. That is your opinion. I don't have a problem with others having a different opinion. Now, please comment on the points the video made about White contradicting himself.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
You missed my point...you (making the first positive assertion) erred. You based what you say Dr. White believes WITHOUT checking that this is so.
All I said was that its' ludicrous to say that just because I cannot cut/paste an exact quote stating that "Dave Hunt is definitely Christian" that's this is not so.
You are wrong...and you know it.
You are too proud to just check with Dr. White to make sure.
end of story.
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich Again, I am glad you admit that you have no evidence to support your claims. I do have evidence and I have showed it on my video. The cartoon WAS POSTED BY JAMES WHITE on ***HIS*** WEBSITE! The cartoon speaks for itself. A picture speaks a thousand words. I did check with White SINCE I WENT TO HIS WEBSITE AND SAW THE CARTOON THAT HE POSTED! Show me counter-evidence or shut up. Put up or shut up. Very simple concept.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
So your evidence to support the idea that Dr. White denies the salvation of another Christian is that he posted a cartoon ON HIS SITE....
And without even the decency to check to make sure you're correct....you plow ahead.
Nice.
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich Wow, "plow head" Sir, all you are PROVING to the YouTubers reading these posts is that you are childish. And that you have completely lost this argument. I am correct that White posted the cartoon on HIS SITE. How do
I know that? Because that's where I got the cartoon!!! Since White posted it on his site, he is responsible for it and the message it sends. I therefore, DID check with White about this since I went to HIS SITE and read his material, part of which is this cartoon.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
PS: I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for you to do the right thing and verify your facts...I don't think you've got the courage.
I think you'd rather hide behind the keyboard and make false accusations based on a misunderstanding and that you're now too proud to be corrected.
as I said before...the number is 1-877-753-3341
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich Neither will I hold my breath waiting for YOU to do the right thing and garner some evidence to support your wild accusations. Again, sir, it is YOUR point, not MINE. The burden of proof is on you regarding your own points. I have proven my point with hard evidence. Now, you sink to ad hominems -- like children in a play-yard -- saying I don't have the courage. This is getting fun. You just keep digging your hole deeper. Again, YouTube folks aren't idiots, sir.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit
That's the problem....you don't have "hard evidence" you've looked at a cartoon, haven't checked with the person who posted it and moved on to misrepresenting what that person believes....
And then when I point this out...you go on the defensive instead of reflecting to see if you've gathered all of the actual facts before posting this video....
No...lol..I can't cut a quote that says "Dave Hunt is definitely a Christian"...I can only tell you what I know.
rpavich 1 year ago
@rpavich Great. You admit you have no evidence. I do have evidence. If you don't think my hard evidence is sufficient,, Fine. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
deliveringit 1 year ago
I think you are simply showing a lack of understanding of the Reformed position.
1) God regenerates a dead sinner to spiritual life (normally by means of the preaching of the Gospel message from the Word of God, the Scriptures).
2) The RESULT of regeneration is repentance and saving faith in Christ Jesus. This is how a sinner is Justified before God. Faith is a necessity, but it is not something man can do on his own. God does the whole work, man does NONE.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 I understand the Reformed position very well. I think you, though, do not understand James White's position (which is what the video was about). As I demonstrated in the video, James White CLEARLY said, in his exegesis of John 6, that faith comes BEFORE regeneration. Which is in contradiction to the Reformed position. This proves that James White contradicts his own Reformed soteriology which insists that faith comes AFTER regeneration.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit You are confusing "regeneration" with "eternal life".
Here is the order, one more time:
1) Regeneration= The work of God (the Holy Spirit).
2) Saving Faith and Repentance= also gifts of God.
3) Eternal Life= Justification by Faith Alone.
*Dr. White is a consistent Reformed (Calvinist) Baptist.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Again, I am simply demonstrating in this video JAMES WHITE'S position and then showing how HE (not me) contradicts himself. James White defined regeneration as "resurrection to spiritual life." I even quote James White in my video as writing exactly that: Regeneration is resurrection to spiritual life. See in my video starting at 2:15. Are you challenging the veracity of my quote of James White? Do you not think he actually wrote that?
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit And I am refuting your claim that Dr. White is contradicting himself. In the first instance, he is speaking about regeneration, and how it leads to saving faith. In the second instance, he is moving on to speak about saving faith and how it leads to eternal life.
Dr. White is NOT being inconsistent, he is merely speaking about two different events in the order of God's salvific work in the sinner.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@deliveringit "James White CLEARLY said, in his exegesis of John 6, that faith comes BEFORE regeneration.." You are simply WRONG! That is NOT what Dr. White said! He said that saving faith leads to eternal life. But before saving faith comes, one must be regenerated.
Again, ONE MORE TIME:
1)Regeneration, THEN,
2)Repentance and Saving Faith, THEN,
3)Eternal Life (Justification by Faith Alone).
*There is an order that cannot be ignored, but one that you are not getting.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Did you not write in the previous comment: "1) God regenerates a dead sinner to spiritual life... 2) The RESULT of regeneration is ...saving faith"??? Then you wrote "1) Regeneration", "2)...Saving Faith" , "3)Eternal Life." So can't you see that you have Eternal Life TWICE! IF Regeneration includes being made ALIVE with eternal life and "results" in faith, then how do you have eternal life AGAIN following faith and regeneration in 3)? You have TWO eternal lifes. No.
deliveringit 1 year ago
@deliveringit "I understand the Reformed position very well." Apparently not ;)
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976 Your right, i didn't understand. But now that you have crisply explained it to me, I do now. As you explained, man is given life in regeneration (step one). After that and as a result of that, he has faith (step two). Then, finally, he gets life -- Again! (step three). So the Reformed position, being very sophisticated, holds that man is given life by God TWICE! How inspiring. Sign me up!
deliveringit 1 year ago
@rkg62976
By the way isn't the upshot of the Calvinist position is that the vast majority of humankind throughout history is damned? The God of Calvin reaches out throughout history and "selects his elect" and then zaps then with the grace to believe and therefore be saved.
Looks to me like the God of Calvin defaults most of his highest creation to the Devil. If Satan wasn't so selfish, he would just declare victory and let God do his work for him.
RPenta 1 year ago
@RPenta "...the vast majority of humankind throughout history is damned?..."
It's always amazing to me that a person would assert that Calvinists claim to know the exact number of the elect. No Calvinist I know of would claim such purely divine knowledge. Rev.7:9 clearly tells us that the saved are so multitudinous that "no man could number".
Your argument is flawed because any Calvinist would admit that we don't know the identity of the elect. It is divine knowledge.
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976
If you read further in Revelation or the Apocalypse as it is called by Catholic/EO you will see that the reference to the multitudes is to those who survived the great tribulation. In fairness I should look at what the Pope of Geneva actually wrote on this topic, if any. I admit I am inferring the number must be small since the number of Christians who have followed Reform theology is very small and much smaller as compared to the number of humans who have inhabited the earth.
RPenta 1 year ago
@RPenta If you are referring to the theory of a seven year period of tribulation, I refute this idea. It is taken from a misinterpretation of Dan.9:24-27 (specifically, the 70th "week").
Besides this, my Bible tells me that God still has His people even within the communion of Rome: "come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins" (Rev.18:4). In order for God's people to "come out", means that they are still there ;)
rkg62976 1 year ago
@rkg62976
Think a second; how could that be? Among the things (like there is no end) that sets the Prots off is the idea of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist--which involves the Mass (which multiplies the one sacrifice of Jesus), priestcraft, sanctifying grace and other superstitions.
By the way, why don't the Evangelicals treat the Blessed Virgin Mary with at least some of the respect that the despised MOOSLUMS do?
RPenta 1 year ago
@rkg62976
And besides that, just with respect to "Christendom" you will I am sure agree most of the professed were suffering under the yoke of Popish fables, Romanist superstitions and Eastern Orthodox traditions of men (LOL)--that is until the Reformers rediscovered the true Gospel after about 15 centuries of obscurity.
RPenta 1 year ago
@RPenta First, the development of Popery was a gradual one, not one that was invented overnight.
Second, Rev.12 tells us that the true church (the "woman in the wilderness") would be isolated for 1260 YEARS (the day=year principle is found throughout Protestant writings. *Rev.12:6,14 tells us the time period of 1260 days/years). The 1260 years is seen as the time of the reign of Antichrist as well, before she received her "deadly wound", and the time of the "two witnesses" (Rev.11).
rkg62976 1 year ago
this is so brilliant and wonderfully laid out. your exigesis is simplistic and yet so profound. this is absolutely fantastic you should consider taking up theology. God bless you
jphairy 2 years ago
I really enjoyed watching the video. Mr. White should watch it everyday :)
Pax et Caritas
FIDESetRATIOihtys 3 years ago
nice job destroying calvinism. but is the church the pillar of truth? or is the Word of God the pillar of truth? If the church is the pillar of truth, then why did john admonish churches in the first couple of chapters of revelation? obviously, because they strayed from the truth. But Jesus said these words "Thy word is truth." In the Bible we see the church rebuked for error, but the word is never rebuked for error.
itsmisterbojangles 3 years ago
Thanks. Yes, the Word of God is always true, even when It says, "...the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15)." Individual churches can certainly stray from the Truth, but the Universal Church cannot. Jesus promised as much when He said the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church.
deliveringit 3 years ago
@deliveringit Dave Hunt is a false teacher unfourtunatly so is the RCC.Our Salvation is from the Lord alone,WE ARE SAVE BY GRACE,a gift of God,through Faith,another gift of God and then repentace of sin is given,still another gift of God.
TheWitnis 1 year ago
@deliveringit No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws Him and then Jesus will raise up 100% of those given.The reason that all men are not saved,is because all are not drawn by the Father to Jesus.
TheWitnis 1 year ago
@TheWitnis Consider that Jesus said that He (Jesus) will draw all men to Himself once they have lifted Him up (on the cross). That is the difference between the Old and New Testaments. There is a difference after all. Before the cross, the Father judged and also drew some. After the cross, Jesus takes over as judge but also is the one Who draws, and He draws "all men" (Jn 12:32). Please see my videos on John Chapter 6 for more info.
deliveringit 1 year ago
Great video brother.
canman86 3 years ago