Refuting Theist Arguments - 'Power of Prayer'

[tenzinandrio1]

I can't post a link here for some reason. But google "Does prayer actually work scientific inquiry" and check out the article on the suite 101 page.

[tenzinandrio1]

My problem with your reasoning is that you are locked into the battle about the existence of God. You are arguing with nincompoops, rather than open minds. I have come across a number of studies that simply attempt to find if prayer has a health outcome, regardless of any belief in "God" - and they report statistical evidence that it does. Couldn't this be evidence of a heretofore-misunderstood "connection" between humans?

[AntisKepticOintment]

See how God is like the placebo effect, wile God is not simply the same thing as the placebo effect. AntisKeptic Ointment at blogger

[hsfootballvids]

Prayer truly has no effect on the outcome of a situation. This is coming from a born and raised Christian who in the past year has actually started to analyze the "faith" that he has been indoctrinated to live by. If you pray for something and it comes true, you say: "God answered my prayer!" when really, it was just a coincidence. However, if you don't get what you pray for, you say: "I guess it's not in God's plan," which is ridiculous because if God has plan that cannot be changed, why pray?

[stevehayes13]

Neat.

[VicDaProphet]

Sorry the God of the christian bible cannot be scientifically proven so throw this argument out the window!!

[walaukana]

refuting an argument. If the second premise is tautologous (true wedge) then it is impossible to use "escaping between the horns". So we can only use the other 2 strategies namely, "grasping by the horns" and counter dilemma.

If the second premise is not tautologous ( false conjunctive, that is false dot) then it is impossible to use "grasping by the horns". Thus, we only can use both "escaping between the horns" and counter dilemma.

[walaukana]

correction (false wedge, not dot)....so what im trying to say is that this is all about critical thinking, science and supernatural is not the same.

[lumpagogo]

walka:

What you have done is reflective of the

'theatre of the absurd': you took a word (tautology) and proceeded to weave a cloth of incohesion, jaberwocky to the max. All you had to do was heed the words of Jim Morrison (The Doors):

"You can NOT petition the Lord with prayer..."

[OmorosePanya]

How do you study the power of prayer? I'm suprised that not once did you mention the problem of confounding variables. How would they account for them? And how do they measure the results?

But they'll do anything to try to pull their beliefs off as scientific, ey?

I still stick to the notion that, if a belief is not derived by science, it cannot be taken away by science. No Christian is going to care about the logic here. But I like this video =)

[ghettoleelewis]

Thanks for using my music in your video. ;)

[RoxyFoxy1992]

Umm.. i don't know about yall but prayer does have an effect, this little girl at my church could not hear, we prayed for her and she could hear again, an old man in front of everyone in my church showed he could not walk up straight, we prayed and when he left he could walk perfectly fine, Now try to tell me God is not real and prayer never works! No one can believe any more, everyone has to have proof! Just believe in Him and He will save you!

GOD BLESS!

[GreenDragon23]

Thanks for your comment.

However, your stories are anecdotes; every time one looks at prayer objectively one finds that it simply doesn't work; praying does not change the relative odds of various outcomes.

Also, for every anecdote you can find that 'supports' prayer (or any other superstition), you can find another that 'supports' a exclusive supernatural claim.

What I am saying is that anecdotes play well with people, but are not logical evidence.

[handom85]

@RoxyFoxy1992 How do u know the pple who are cured are not faking it? And even if prayer was the cause for their improvement, that proves nothing supernatural. Faith's physiological effects (or any strong conviction's effect for that matter) are real, but prove there's a god it does not. Supernatural claims require extraordinary evidence.

[Sleek310]

@RoxyFoxy1992 Ok so lets go on this notion that a prayer made this man walk straight and this girl hear and thats proof of God....what about amputees who pray and dont get their limbs back and for the record they never have.....what about the people screaming at funerals for god to give back their 10 year old child killed in a crossfire of a drive by ppl who lose their jobs and pray yet still end up on the streets...U telling me that walking straight is more important than life and wellbeing

[Gnomefro]

@Sleek310 "Ok so lets go on this notion that a prayer made this man walk straight and this girl hear and thats proof of God"

The anecdote could well be true though. People do in fact observe these things all the time. It's just that the faith healing shows are set up by con men that have been exposed in a variety of circumstances. James Randi's book on faith healing(and debunking of one of these guys on live TV) is one example of this being done.

[Gnomefro]

@Sleek310 One suspicious thing about it all is that the old man would bother to "show everyone that he couldn't walk". Right there we're well into showmanship and magician tricks. A girl claiming to be deaf has to be one of the easiest thing to fake of all and no casual observer could ever conclusively say that any change occurred in her body at all.

The real question here is why god would inflict those states on those people/not cure them without groveling if he cared about them at all.

[Sleek310]

@RoxyFoxy1992 Why would anyone want to believe something to which theres no evidence and stand behind fairy-tails in the face of evidence to the contrary? You dont know prayer helped these ppl u believe it helped them because it supports what u already believe but for every person who says god fixed my minor issue, you have thousands more who die from aids, suffer from autism, die from cancer, but when u have a headache and pray and its gone in 3 hours GOD gets the credit, its nonsense

[Usingabrain]

I hope that people from both sides can relax a little, and come to an understanding that for every person out there who is only accepting of facts, or what they can percieve through the senses, there are just as many who are content to believe without knowing for sure. it's just different, kind of like a slob and a neat freak living together. Sure there is conflict, but you are still in this together, no matter how each of us see the world.

[StayGoldHC]

trying to prove the existence of God is absurd. The realm of faith is not the realm of science. Gods existence is no more absurd than His absence. In a world so complex and innerconnected, its just as ludicrous to say that there is a God as is there is to say that there is not. God gave us a rational mind so that we could be forced to make a leap of faith and believe.

So can you stop this fools errand of proving my Kings existence, and stop this arrogant bullshit? Thanks

[lumpagogo]

Hey Stay:

If "faith" is to be taken seriously, it has to be demonstrated as a 'fact of life'. If that can't be done, then we are impelled to consider the world of faith the same way we peruse a Disney movie: it is helpful to many but does not reflect a metaphysical magnitude.

[weareonethrewgod]

if while watching a movie the director, sound guy and crew walked into the seene, how fun would the movie be to watch. Ned I say more....

[jesusrules2012]

I'm not going to debate or argue with you people, because the proof is in the pudding.  Keep telling yourselves there is no God and there is no such thing as Divine intervention you fools! watch?v=F11Bc2iMURU watch?v=zbaiC9N6bGU

[transhuman3030]

So, God has a Plan. But sometimes, it goes wrong, and he has to intervene. Wait, that means he's not omnipotent.

OK, so everyone has free will. They decide whether or not to believe in Him. And sometimes, for no particular reason, God intervenes and saves a person from something that should kill them. Then they become religious, and tell about what happened. But not everyone gets this evidence, meaning God favors some over others. Wait, that means he's not just.

Well i'm out.

[gravitykills777]

The Bible tells us to walk in stride with Yeshua, live by his commandments, and most of all love and worship our wonderful father. so what we have is people that want to go and live by their own rules live in filthy sin ,then when they get sick ,THEN they want to pray. It doesnt work that way. God says if you are luke warm i will spew you out of my mouth, and i never knew you. if you walk right with god and have untouchable faith and prayer can move mountains. CHAZERAH B' TUSHUVA....

[RussianAssassin21]

Notice how you must keep reminding us that this is what is said in a book that was written by men?

[mistak]

Whats the title of this song?

[bdcarlitosway]

I have a question, what do you mean by "Circumstancial evidence"?

[cbreeze123]

That guy isnt superman; he isnt any different from his brother or any other person that died from falling out a building. So how do you explain that? the doctors couldn't...This man had a wife and children. Could it be that it wasn't his time to go and "someone" out there was looking out for him?

[cbreeze123]

As far as miracles, I read in the news about a month ago, 2 brothers, who were window washers, fell from I think a 40 something story high building. One brother died and the other survived. Doctors say this was a medical miracle, had never seen anything like it. And if someone had fell from even half that height they would be killed intantly.

[SetTheWorldAblaze]

That is an interesting one. to think about how far the man had fallen, isn't really the right way to go about figuring this out. you can only fall so fast, at maximum velocity, you can survive a fall. It has happened many times before, this isn't something new.

[DimSumDANCE]

a miracle is often a religious way to ignore the physical laws to explain something. ie: "wow that ball missed his head by a 1/3 of an inch. it's a miracle." no the ball literaly just missed him. that's it. no work of god, nothing. a guy fell from a 40 story high building and lived. just because we can't explain it YET doesn't mean we can call it a miracle and that's it.

[cbreeze123]

For settheworldablaze- I wasnt saying that people who dont believe in God go around doin bad things or are bad people. I have friends that dont believe in God so thats not the issue. Im saying for a person, in general, if you are doing the wrong things in life, how can u expect God to work in your favor? Why should he help you out? Things dont go your way and then you get pissed off and lose your Faith in God. I think people are giving up to easily.

[Jewfrojenius]

Good message, sucky music.

[cbreeze123]

I guess all I'm saying is its hard to believe that there were studies conducted on prayer and none of them could prove that prayer works when there are people I come across everyday who stress how much prayer has worked for them and how their life has completely turned around from nothing. For all you atheists out there, please explain that to me...

[SetTheWorldAblaze]

Their preys are doing nothing for them. physiological they may be tricking themselves to feel better with prey, but I could do that by thinking happy thoughts all day too. It dose not mean they are actually talking to someone. Really they are deluding themselves to think that prey is doing something. Id like you to find us proof that it is working, then we could have a real discussion about it.

[cbreeze123]

I am not saying that you have to be religious because I'm not, but you never thought that there was a higher being out there that created life for us? this entire universe! From what I was told God (or whatever you want to call him) doesnt call when you come but is always on time, and your prayers cannot be answered if you do not have faith. You cant be running around doing all the wrong things, sinning and carrying on, and then expect God to do something for you. Why should he?

[SetTheWorldAblaze]

This has nothing to really do with anything. Your saying those who do not believe in a god go around doing horrible things? And i assume you mean after we do these things we expect a god to do something for us. well we know there is not god in the first place so we sure are not waiting for a miracle to happen.

[cbreeze123]

Not trying to be funny, but you are refuting this based on scientific research that other people have done. Have u ever tried looking to God and truly having faith that your prayers will be answered and then AFTERWARDS you were let down? Then maybe I could understand why you feel this way. And how do you explain miracles?...amazing things that occur on this Earth that under normal circumstances shouldnt have happened but did, and people have no scientific explanation for?

[SetTheWorldAblaze]

Id like you to tell us about some of these "miracles" and i bet we could explain them to you. I have also seen many people prey for just about everything around me, and at one point when i was little i use to prey as well. It dose not do anything.

[ruffomaldito]

In THE GOD DELUSION, Dawkins accepted miracles "in the sense of natural phenomena that we don't yet understand". If you claim that you can understand and explain them to the world, you better contact him fast.

[Opposui]

You are fucking epic.

Permanent subscriber.

[GreenDragon23]

hehehe

Thanks!

;)

[GreenDragon23]

lol

The ramblings of a delusional man who imagines that he is the gatekeeper of an imaginary place called hell do not concern me.

You are actually amusing me right now.

:)

[GreenDragon23]

lol

How can you show that which you do not even see yourself?

[no4giveness]

I'll put my reality up against anyones, careful i didn't build mine with lies, if you could comprehend my thought, you should know that there is reason to my actions. Do you think i have no intelligence? Please convert me dr mabusa, i will listen to your words.

[no4giveness]

I like your reasoning drmabusa. i agree now let's do that, how long do you need inorder to kill me, please proceed. You weren't just talking were you? hurry up because i things to do.

[GreenDragon23]

Reality is not a subjective concept, therefore you do not have your own 'reality' - you might have different believes and perceptions of reality - but reality is an objective thing that exists/has its properties regardless of your existence, thoughts, etc.

BTW - I like the way you handle drmabusa, no4giveness ;)

[favoritefood0]

"Reality is that of which when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away."

You might have a viewpoint or perspective that differs, but reality is the same across the board.

[GreenDragon23]

lol

Hateful little delusional freak aren't you

;)

[no4giveness]

No, quite the contrary. I love people, and always defended someones rights to believe in anything. ( my

very belief holds the possibility that anything that can be imagined, can be possible.Instead of people taking the additude that different beliefs is a good thing, they ridicule eachother for their beliefs. I like that you can believe in something different then me yet we both can be right. I am trying to eat the cake i want.

[GreenDragon23]

Barely coherent ramblings spliced with more delusions is proof of nothing...

[no4giveness]

I bring proof of everything, first I take down atheism, considering they believe in logic, you think they would be easy, but no they think logic supports their faith. Theist will be the easy ones.

[GreenDragon23]

1) Atheism requires no faith

2) Atheism is based solely on logical priniciples

You clearly do not grasp the concept.

[no4giveness]

i do grasp it

logic is illogical

if atheism is based solely on logical principles then it is illogical therefore a faith, that is logic, and atheist believe in logic you told me they did

[GreenDragon23]

Logic is not illogical.

You are merely making an unsupported assertion; if you want to claim that logic is illogical then you have to back your claim up with evidence.

Your whole argument is based on one baseless assertion - you are going to need more than that if you want to prove your point. ;)

[teenspirit1]

I will believe the whole story when god creates intelligent christians.

[no4giveness]

what is the proof? You lost me at drmabusa.

Second coming, what that mean he couldn't get it right the first time.

I like this song.

I would tell you about my third coming but i am shy.

[no4giveness]

I thought of something after my video response. In god we trust. Religions they are good.

[GreenDragon23]

Are you honestly trying to make the blanket asertion that religions are good?

I am honestly curious... is that what you are doing?

[no4giveness]

no the opposite, destroy all religion, even atheism. yes atheism is a faith. It is an illogical belief, that is a faith.

[GreenDragon23]

lol

Atheism is a LACK of religious faith.

Your statement shows your ignorance of the concept.

[no4giveness]

just seen this comment (comments are everywhere ohhh scary, moving comments.)

No i understand the conceptthe fact that it is an illogical belief makes it a faith( i can prove this if you want by using logic, but i try to stay away from illogical arguments such as logic it is a flawed concept which people try to use to justify their faith

[schugasin]

Humans did not construct or create God. If you really think about it, there needs to be some creator or initial factor as to what caused everything to be. "The big bang"? everything came from antimatter? or just small matter in space? but what created that matter? the argument someone would ask is then what created God. There is some truth in this if "matter" was just there and then created the universe it must be some signifigant matter.

[GreenDragon23]

If we presupposed that everything has a cause (which is a basless assumption), then god simply cannot exist because it would mean an infinite regression of creative deities. Also, the very idea of omnipotence is impossible (both logically and when we take into account the 1st law of thermodynamics). Also, your term "significant matter" is both ill-defined and without a base or evidence to support it.

[schugasin]

In the Bible it says God has always been, and always will be. The 1st law of Thermodynamics states that matter cannot be created or destroyed......well that doesnt make a lot of sense as everything came from a small amount of matter. The complexity of the universe itself is soo magnificent to just be randomly thrown together by chance. Even the term Universe broken down uni-verse a unified verse or a single verse. "God said let there be light, and there was light"

[GreenDragon23]

Your argument is a combination of meaningless/unsubstantiated biblical claims and a misunderstanding of the big bang.

The big bang never states that everything came from a small amount of matter; it says that everything was COMPRESSED into a singularity. Also, many things that appear ordered come from chance.

I am tired of people misrepresenting concepts/showing their ignorance proudly.

[Raderick]

Awesome video my friend. As an agnostic who believes not me, not you, not a Christian, not a Muslim, can prove nor disprove the existence of a higher being, but merely something one must put faith in..

[GreenDragon23]

I am glad you enjoyed it. ;)

Its always good to hear that more people than just atheists watch my videos.

[TranceDevotee]

Raderick, science (our best method for understanding the world) does not prove anything, it gives us the best possible explanation for the way things are in light of the verifiable evidence. so while you are right that nobody can prove the existence of gods, we can be more certain than uncertain that gods do not exist, and this does not make one an agnostic but an atheist (i am defining agnoticism as being equaly sure and unsure of the existence of gods, u might have a different definition)

[GreenDragon23]

Well spoken. ;)

[SofaKingLoaded]

Holy shit.. Merc178 is nuttier than a squirrel turd..

[GreenDragon23]

lol

Agreed

[Merc178]

see that pyramid with an eye on top behind the dollar bill? its just a kool design by some artist. new world order? lol... yeah right! god doesnt exist... sin? lets not call it that... but lets make our own rules. just to keep ourselfs safe.

[GreenDragon23]

lol

If you are going to ramble about various supernatural forces and conspiracies you should at least ATTEMPT to provide some evidence other than "i feel it."

Your argument is not supported by any evidence. Either support it or stop trying to claim that any of it is so.

[Merc178]

if already dont believe in the "super natural" then why would u want evidence. the evidence will be "super natural". as objects moving, voices, strong feelings, taking control over, and so on. do u believe me now? no. so go out do some research. if u were my neighbor i would gadly show u whats real and whats not. take care...

[GreenDragon23]

There is NO research to support any of the notions that youa re bringing up... nice red herring though.

[Merc178]

okay. so you dont have to believe in god and satan. but the government sure does, and so does ur favorite rock artist, and so does the voodoo lady and so does witches. oh and black magick is fake (sarcasm). u feel that cold? its just that the windows are open... u see that shadow? it was never really there. are u feeling wierd? ur probally sick. its all in your head... not saying that ur crazy. ghosts are not real, zombies are.

[Merc178]

prayers... miracles, has left doctors scratching their heads. okay some people dont believe in god, which makes the devil fake too. i want to just take those people for a day and show them some things. grab their hands... show them how it feels to be around demons. show them spirits. for example... one of my favorite guitarist, kirk hammet, believes in satan, and so does kurt cobain which believes in heaven and hell. the goverment trusts satan and use god to scare others or fool... idk.