Magic Pro Tour Berlin 2008 Finals

[snapcaste]

Non-Practiced Players should just stick to aggro decks. Combo/Control is just too hard for people who don't practice w them

[Tipharet]

What would a day of judgement do there, heh?

[MikeBack42]

@Tipharet not a damn thing lol day is a SORCERY not an INSTANT

[MrKaiizenn]

@Bigbenjaa He tapped his other creatures for mana to play more creatures from on the abilities of his elves.

[magicthegatheringDM]

they play this in Berlin? wtf!!!! i did not know that

[al0ndite]

Skip to 3:40, Your Welcome lol.

[BigBenjaa]

I wish I knew what the fuck they were doing, I'm lucky if I can play 1 creature my first turn and they played like 12 on their second? What?!

[AOXV]

with modern out, is this deck gonna rape? or was this before mirrodin?

[ElgartheWise]

@AOXV this is like 3 years after mirrodin, but this deck can't exist in modern because glimpse of nature is banned in this format.

[AOXV]

@ElgartheWise ah, yeah i hadnt checked out the ban list yet. thanks =)

[SirQQmorez]

@ElgartheWise hey it can exist just itll suck w/o glimpses

[goodmaggot]

no the storm copies are put onto the stack they are not cast so they do not count towards the storm count so the second grapeshot would only do twelve damage

[goldthunder9]

Just a big question...

example, I play 10 elves,

then grapeshot, for 11 damage...

if i play another grapeshot, does all the other copies of the first one influence this one?

like, does the second grapeshot do 22 damage or just 12 damage?

[nexustkgmail]

@goldthunder9 yes 11 and then 12, so 23.

[goldthunder9]

@nexustkgmail then why not trade eternal witness for another grapeshot?

[PoketoMtg]

@goldthunder9 He wanted something that works universal.  If you saw in game 2 he used Eternal Witness to grab another Pact.

[billjohnbaker]

LSV want smoosh smoosh

[c0lefalk1]

You gotta love LSV's reaction at 45:19, it's like "What the hell is this? Oh, well that's interesting..."

[darkwar12345]

i made a tribute deck to LSV of his grapeshot elves, to bad i proxyed em all. LMAO. :D

[sethhhumphrey]

the amount of awesome here is definitely wayyyyy over 9000.

[pablito12sc]

O_O

fuck

[ChewbacasThong]

haha "LSV" is that glob the equivalent to the NBA's Kobe or something. The announcers are all over his chode.

[mastabrand11]

wow Nerds much

[L337wizard]

@mastabrand11 the only reason your probably watching this is because you want to be like them. 

[neuicon]

@mastabrand11 Yeah, lump me in with those nerds if they're taking home 45,000 bucks for playing card games... XD

[b8nardo8g]

FGSake´s a close-up to the cards please!

[45gamehead]

no one gives a fuck about chess u homos

[VideoThePerfect]

ur gay

[miballzitch]

WHAT. THE. FUCK. HAPPENED.

[hoza121]

what happend to the randdy guy?????

[angryuspiratus]

arrrgh! i really want to watch this but the quality sucks and i can't even make out what the hell they're playing!

[neckfiya1]

i hate how wizards always show's us ther eface we dont want to watch there face

[neckfiya1]

what's funny was magic-league knew about this deck long before the pro's did

[Greenlexluther]

@CoasterphansCubes pretty sure he means the ridiculous amounts of WW booster packs being sold because people want jace

[Lightmane321]

If the rule was that abilities on cards that are tapped can't be activated, that would solve a lot of this ridiculous manipulation that, in my opinion, ruins the game

[JexToth]

Wow, i just shit a brick house. LSV <3

[MrBlairblack]

neither of these decks excite me. in fact, they remind me why i sold my cards in 2002.

[lakeportwhocares]

@MrBlairblack then why are u watching the pro tour its not like you could have stumbled upon it by accident haha

[gummyhummy]

when can you actually watch this on tv, or can you not watch it on tv?

[komasdfg]

thats INSANE!

[tontxusoad]

pertseronesss!!!

[astuubirr]

@CoasterphansCubes Birchlore rangers... Tap two untapped elves you control add one many of any color to your mana pool.

[PointBlank70]

@CoasterphansCubes

Brichlore Rangers

[sorrentomiguel]

@V4L0r Im with ya There is not even a reason for comparing MTG with chess, dead to the motherfucker who said such a comment. Chess is the best game ever created

[filsommer]

I don't uderstand... Why does LSV tap the elves for mana and then untap them?

[Clock83131]

@filsommer Unless I'm mistaken, that card untaps whenever you cast an elf/any spell.

[Clock83131]

@Clock83131 Actually : magiccards(.)info(/)eve(/)en(/­)71(.)html

[blitz2k6]

@Clock83131 Nettle sentinel doesnt untap during your untap step. Whenever you play a green spell, untap nettle sentinel.

[KuR0s3N]

cmon wizards... you got people buying assloads of worldwake chasing jace and you cant get decent cameras?

[Sforschondetta]

@KuR0s3N lol for real

[ThePortableOps]

@KuR0s3N It's off of a stream you dumb fuck.

[KuR0s3N]

@ThePortableOps

clearly your 56k is simply unable to hand any decent looking streams.

[ThePortableOps]

@KuR0s3N The video was recorded off a stream by WotC, probably using some screen recorder. As a result, the stream (which already isn't in amazing, HD quality) will be recorded with a lot of frame drops.

For the record, my 56k is off da hook. Don't feed the trolls nigger.

[usernamesaregay222]

@KuR0s3N this was 2008 buddy

[Emperror1]

@KuR0s3N you got the year wrong.

[Ohushi]

@KuR0s3N look at the date brah

[Icenstoiler]

quality for shit

[Gunnar00]

the announcers have such little chemistry. the main announcer is very annoying

[Comenter5]

I've never actually played Mtg but I wanted to see it. I'm sitting here like "What the FUCK are they doing???"

[RectumPilum]

Can you use any expansion or edition in the pro tours, and can you combine them? Like using Shards and 2010 together?

[kevinkenny3]

@RectumPilum In the Pro Tour, there is constructed standard and standard booster draft.

[cha0tik]

Is this YuGiOh?

[mozardee]

@cha0tik nop...its pokemon :)

of course its not yugioh...its magic, its on the title lol xD

[meanman3000]

it would be really bad for both these decks if you were allowed one random darksteel deck...eg:wurms tooth =D

[Bachu1]

@meanman3000 Wurm's Tooth would not win you the game against an elf deck. You saw the Warden being played, and against a creature deck it's allmost the same amount of lifegain and it did not help him.

[joshua61991]

wow thats nutty, the american is playing the same type of combo as I play, Grapeshot glimpse of nature. Thats funny.

[meanman3000]

@joshua61991 swarm win =D

[tomcatt3733]

Well to answer your question on an all green elf deck there are green cards that can make every land u control every land type swamp, mountain etc. It's a rare in the shadowmore series and it's converted mana color is green. So that could be the sorcery he played or there maybe other cards like that out there.

[HollowVampire]

Is this aired on TV or something? If so, I need to find the channel.

[EisakuKUN]

o.o at 7:00 I thought you can't tap with summoning sickness??

[matrixmix101]

@EisakuKUN some cards have effects that let them, i didnt see what card it was so i dont know the exact effect

[Bachu1]

@EisakuKUN Heritage Druid let's you tap three elves for mana, it's not a tap ability so you can just drop the Heritage and tap three elves for three mana.

[kevinkenny3]

@EisakuKUN Creatures that have the (tap) symbol can't use their ability unless if they have haste or are no longer summoning sick. Since Heritage Druid has just a colon (:), the ability can be used even if the elves have summoning sickness.

[EisakuKUN]

@kevinkenny3 yes I realize this now, thank you ^^;;

[MrTezzerettheseeker]

@ashfx he was untapping by the nettle sentinel habilty, know the cards!!! He was able to play red-mana grapeshot with birchlore rangers...

Know the cards before talking...

[trtisme]

He was asking because he didn't know the cards. Don't be an ass.

[imfreaking]

@MrTezzerettheseeker

herritage druid!! :D

[ashxf]

Exactly HOW was Vargas able to play red-mana Grapeshot in what appears to be a mono-green deck? Also, what did he have out that let him tap and untap the same cards multiple times in a single round?

[pdt1060]

Red mana from birchlore rangers, untap from nettle sentinels and wirewood symbiote

[leoclay1]

I use the dice in several ways: To keep track of my life total (If I go above 20, I sometimes use my phone, lol) and to keep track of counters on certain cards (i.e. quest counters, 1/1 counters)

[All4ourKing]

@leoclay1 Here he uses the die to track the amount of mana in his pool, and the storm count.

[Sodrith]

the die is for keeping track of life points

[Takkelete]

Matej uses it early on to count mana and storm count.

[wrathsin]

This deck was so good when it was extended legal

[hoza121]

@wrathsin it is good in legacy if u no what u r doing

[ZhaneTheGreat]

There are a few that could. I use die to keep count of tokens, though, so I don't have, like, fifty upside down cards on my side.

[vexest706]

i made grapeshot elves. it is very fun to play but if you glimps and then run into lands with no creatures youre fucked. its not so fun for others playing against it tho XD. regal force saves alot tho if you play it right

[Chopstix707]

Regal Force

[Jennlongyu]

at 8:50 how can he draw 7 card just for 1 summoner's pack?

[Mustustus]

Regal Force

[XTCiswhatIneed]

How does Luis get red Mana for the Grapeshot? o.O

[LeahcimWolf]

birchlore ranger

[XTCiswhatIneed]

Ahhh! Thanks a lot^^

[tedbratton]

birchlore ranger

[Regicide1990]

On the issue of collectible card games AI. Komani had been trying to develop a reasonable AI for YUGIOH for about 6 years now, and any player with a reasonable deck who knows what they are doing can easily beat the AI they came up with. And if you think designing an AI for YUGIOH is hard enough, keep in mind that YUGIOH was designed to be a less complicated version of MTG, so yeah.

[DodgeCarz]

lmfao what loosers learn a real sport like Hockey, Football, Soccer GET OUT MORE OFTEN!!

[riccardone90]

45 minutes of video....

[924142707]

Actually, many ways I think Mtg is more complicated than chess. In fact you can create a computer program that can beat the very best in chess and yet you have no comparision for Magic. I really love the game and I think it's awesome that there are people playing Pro. I just wish I knew how to play that well haha! I would study mtg all the time if it meant I could make 100,000.00 in a tournament !!

[hungsolow123]

Difficulty of being able to code a competitive AI to play a game, I believe, is the best way to judge a games complexity.

Chess is a joke now to code for, and will be universally unbeatable by human players at some point in the near future.

Poker, if you remove the "poker face" aspect, is also very easy to code for.

MTG is exceedingly difficult to code an AI for. There are so many cards, so many interactions and so many possible decisions one can make that there's really no comparison.

[NachtCrus]

you could create a computer similation for magic, the only reason they havent is because there are alot of cards, and youd have to create a whole program for every different card, not because its a complicated game, aka, noone would bother

[Regicide1990]

the data-base is not the problem, the real problem is the AI

[chad4mvp]

@924142707

Thats because there are thousands of technology freaks that devote their lives to improving chess computers. Same cannot be said about Magic. As a person who plays both games, youre a fool to even entertain the idea that Magic is more complicated.

[SSdraken]

@924142707 MTG evolves very fast, with new metagame every single expansion. chess on the other hand hasn't changed for hundreds of years, so it has a riduclously large knowledge base and there is lots and lots of openings and strategies to learn. So they're both very different. You raise a valid point though! If Magic just had a limited amount of cards though (no expansions), I'm pretty sure you could program a computer for it though. The element of luck of course still remains (no luck in ches

[botanicalman]

@924142707 I wish I could play pro magic for money too... but I rather get pussy, and I mean the kind you can find that play magic... and chess and magic are nearly impossible to compare.. other than strategy, they have little in common.

[jimmybrown11111]

@botanicalman I'm pretty sure these guys get sum with the kind of money they have.

[Sforschondetta]

@924142707 doesnt really take much skill to learn how to play. only skill you need to build are the decisions on weather or not to play a card . rest of the game is luck of the draw

[Poopaskull]

@924142707 You can't compare Magic to Chess.. Magic is somewhat based on luck (and skill, of course) whereas Chess is 100% skill - as both players start off with the same amount of units and the same prospects..

[endersgame55]

@Poopaskull You're right, they're not really analogous at all, but people like to cite chess when talking to people unfamiliar with Magic because it helps to emphasize the cerebral nature of the game.

Chess is a poor comparison specifically because of the fact that both players use different "pieces", which is of course what makes Magic wonderful and unique; games are won and lost before you even sit down based on what you've chosen. But "like chess" is language that people understand.

[ThePortableOps]

@924142707 Well, you're wrong.

There is a random factor to Magic (the deck).

The better player at Chess usually always wins.

[worldslayer]

@924142707 I honestly dont think any game in the world comes remotely close to the skill required to play championship chess. players have to think dozens of turn ahead, and 90 percent of people are actually not capable of that, even if they did practice day in a day out. you just have to be that intelligent.

[Pupukissa]

@924142707 "you can create a computer program that can beat the very best in chess" False. See: Kasparov vs Deep Blue, Milov vs Rybka.

[xrikimarux]

@924142707 did you win 100,000 in a tournament? also they make a shit load of money cause you always have to updated your cards to its currently season.. what is it now? season 13? those 12 season of card are now trash.. i started and stop in kamigawa... but there novel are pretty good.. kamigawa for life.

[miikhailov]

@924142707

Well it's because in chess on both sides you have the same "cards".. chess is pure skill, there are quite many luck elements in mtg. Not only that, there are a cr*pton of cards that create imbalances and weaknesses. There is no one deck that beats them all.. if an AI would pick cards in response to your build while somehow knowing all your cards in your deck and their order and knowing what cards are next in its own deck then it would probably kick the pro's asses.

[miikhailov]

@924142707

And no, you can't create a computer program that can beat a chessmaster at chess. Why? Because the pro's can learn the AI itself to know what moves it's going to do next. Chess is about making a move, creating possiblites and waiting for a response. The computer, or AI, can never account for all the possiblites.

[ss4linkftw]

@miikhailov Actually it can and has been done before, do a little research next time.

[miikhailov]

@ss4linkftw what has? be a little more precise next time.

[coolman96786]

HORRIBLE quality

[cubanito411]

all about the GREEN

[Artanisix]

what is this i don't even

[Rossthatguyfromthere]

holy crap. This is the nerdiest thing in the entire WORLD!!

[Ramiromasters]

Just get a couple beers and you'll see is not much different from any sport.... except white people play it!

[924142707]

How do you train for a magic pro tour? Wake up at 4 am, drink eggs and run 3 miles a day? haha. But seriously....I would play pro for a chance to win 250,000.00 .

[josephmccolley]

I think not. But knowing how do use and making your deck to counter every one elses is probably a job of it's own

[blizard0717]

Actually they do train.... Solving dificult strategy puzzles like the ones on MTG Duels of the planeswalkers.

[924142707]

Where?

[pAbedaNSK]

how much magic pros make?

[seantawn]

pro tour winner gets 40 grand.

can't do it for a living, highest lifetime earner is Kai Budde, at like 350-400 Thousand. so yah

[cubanito411]

HEY in pro tournements do u have to play type 2 cuz at the game shop i play at ur only alowed to play type 2

[seantawn]

each ones different, some pro tours are extended some are standard, Austin was extended (the most recent one)

[watermonk7]

magic is fun can some1 tell me how Luis got out grapeshot, I thought that grapeshot was red?

[SoccerBallin117]

birchlore rangers, tap two untapped elves you control, add one mana of any color to your mana pool

[seantawn]

he has cards in his deck specifically for getting out grapeshot, that give him 1 of any mana colour he wants. his entire deck is based around casting 19 spells+ and throwing out Grapeshot for 20 straight dmg.

[Lestat13TheVampire]

45 minutes how? Well you must suck for 45 minutes being uncommon, or be stupid, or both.

[saras248]

omfg 45mins long how?

[JSManuSniper]

the pictures are cool. ive got a question, what are the odds of getting a mythic rare as opposed to a normal rare?

[hrhitter620]

1 in 9 packs roughly i think

[JSManuSniper]

thanks

[jimmycrackcorn1981]

i love mtg

[jaededify]

can someone tell me a good list of what kinds of decks thier are like elf goblin shaman control dragon angel zombie scarecrow faerrie

[angryrootbeer]

I've been playing magic for about two months, and I'm just curious, wtf is going on here? lol

[soldier4242]

The glimpse of nature they were talking about is a spell that lets him draw a card for each creature spell he casts. since he can tap all his elves for mana and the sentinels up tap every time he casts a green spell. He can spend one mana on a green spell but tap 3 or 4 sentinels and turn a mana profit. This also racks up a lot of spells for the storm counter on grapeshot which deals one damage for each spell cast that turn.

[angryrootbeer]

Aha. That makes sense.

[soldier4242]

This is not the first deck to reek havok in this way. Mind desire decks also did this sort of thing the main difference is that the elf combo deck was more reliable and much faster.

[jaededify]

whats deck would you guys recommend for me a beginner who is a green magic like a elf deck

[joekool44444]

if you want to go with an elf green one word of advice...

dont. as a beginner if your going to want green use more forest mana and bigger creatures with trample and 4 giant growth and 2 over growth

[cruciald]

don't listen to this guy.

[jaededify]

im new to magic guys im going to ask a question how do you make like scarecrow decks and fairy decks and stuff like that are decks life that just other names for two color decks or something again im new to magic.

[AnotherGeneric]

I'm a noob player, but how come they don't tap their guys for summoning sickness? How come their land counts are so low? And lastly, are all the cards these guys are playing with like ultra rare which is why they can do so many moves in one single hand? I just watched the first game and the American guy just kept gaining mana and untapping/tapping over and over again. Crazy.

[mustardede]

Most people don't tap for summon sickness, as long as you can remember that its summoned and has it's sickness, it doesn't make a difference.

[Ballinlolz]

they dont tap there summon sick cards because, a card that comes into play with summoning sickness isnt tapped. it jsut cant attack, but it can block

[stormbind26]

Basically summoned cards does not really need to be tapped at all as stated below they cannot just attack. Will it make a difference you may ask? Yes it will, for there are cards that targets tapped cards in play.

You may want to see the card Heritage Druid, it produces 3 green mana tapping 3 elves.(According to the game at 6:55)

And for the rare, I quitted magic since the invasion block but I'm pretty sure that not all their cards are rare.

[munk18]

audio is not in sync.....

[b4zo0]

These camera guys should be shot, I really give a f* shit about how the players look, i wanna see the table and nothing else.

[Exotik23x]

Wut is the side board...its not part of your deck so you cant use them in a game, do you just use it to switch out certien cards depending on the type of deck you play against

[b4zo0]

Yes, after the first game you and your opponent can switch cards from main to sideboard and reverse, at any point in the tornament play, your sideboard must contain either 15 or 0 cards.

[stormbind26]

Yes, basically side boards are 15 cards you can switch in between matches. Not including the 1st match which you had to play using the cards listed for you deck.

[robquads]

guess im old school real old school...is summoning sickness still in the rules? i have a decent collection but have absolutely no new cards.

[Valllick]

ya that how i am all my cards are from 1993 to 1997 and im just strating to get into magic again because of xbox 360 and Magic online yes summoning sickness is still in the rules

[sadteddyandco]

i love magic ive been playing it since i was bout 9 only 1 other person i know have cards and only 2 shops sell them here in sheffield

[Masteroftuba3]

they sell them at target and bookstores as well. And walmart, your town's got to have one of those lol

[sadteddyandco]

nah im from the UK we don't have walmart and ive only seen them being sold in a bookshop once

i just dont think its posh enough for us lol

[Zilogrok]

I just started to play this game... and its awesome how this card game have its own tv program, world tour.. well, i guess that they earn lot of money selling cards...

[flamtapman]

i think that deck is broken the other dude doesnt even get a chance

[artoriousrex]

when it comes down to it... in a mirror match he who has best side wins hands down...

[soldier4242]

I normally agree but that was not the case in this particular match up.

[ImagineA92]

first game... how did that guy generate 2 mountains for the grapeshot? he only had one land to do it with... his elves were only generating forests

[artoriousrex]

elves of deep shadow tap for mana of any color at the cost of a life bro

[Izzotwelvetwnety]

it's just for B