1992 Monica Seles def. Martina Navratilova (2/3)

[artisking]

As a fan of martina and Monica, I have to say how deeply disappointed I am by Martina's behavior here. She had played Seles over half a dozen times and Seles ALWAYS GRunted......and Martina never complained......

Pretty desperate, very pathetic.......she cost the fans a great final, as Seles was quiet vs Graf, and a no show......

[jambamz]

@artisking yes she grunted before this, although the longer her career went on the louder it got, to call martina pathetic is in itself pathetic. Maybe she had just had enough? put up with it for as long as she could? I know one thing for sure, I woud listen to the one of the greatest alongside jean king than any of the keyboard warriors in here ANY day!

[artisking]

@jambamz

I love Martina, but she behaved stupidly here. I called her behavior pathetic on THAT day, in this instance. Let's be honest, Martina wanted to win BAD, and she was insecure. When Martina gets insecure, she starts to play the blame game.

And no doubt, the final was affected by all this whining. If you are going to complain, COMPLAIN EVERY TIME.

Credit to her, but Martina was overpowered because she was playing someone 17 years her junior and Martina's second serve was too tepid..

[jambamz]

@artisking insecure? so you know her inner thoughts now do you? and sayin she is pathetic here or anywhere else is irrelevant, you still say she was being pathetic. As I said, you clearly cant read, maybe she had just had enough. You have not really answered any points on seles grunting, just constant abuse of martina. As I said, that in itself is pathetic

[artisking]

@jambamz

For the THIRD time, I said her behavior in THIS INSTANCE was pathetic. I am not saying that martina is pathetic generally~ she is arguably the greatest female athlete of all time.

But Martina has had her moments of crippling insecurity, and IMO, this was one of them. And quit the bitchy incredulity that I should dare pretend to know her "inner thoughts", as you follow up with this gem, "Maybe she had had enough of the grunting."

Of course, only you can interpret her inner thoughts?

[jambamz]

@artisking I said " maybe " which is different from the insecure statement you make, as you seem to have it as fact that she was / us insecure, and on the pathetic comment READ what I said. Of course we are all well aware of the abuse martina continues to get from certain sections of the tennis community, just a pity you seem to be another one who berates her.

dude seriously, I'm winding you up ok! I just dont think it's right to say she was acting pathetic, but thats your opinion

[artisking]

@jambamz

ok, lets agree to disagree....no worries.....

[fong03]

@artisking You can't blame Martina for Seles' play in the final. I agree that something should have been said to Seles before the tournament but ultimately Monica had to rise above it all. As mentally tough as she was, I was surprised that she didn't fight harder, even without grunting.

Still, with the way Graf was playing, I don't think Seles would have won a set off her that day even if she had been grunting. It might have been closer, but Steffi was just too tough on grass.

[artisking1]

@fong03

Seles was a shadow of herself in the final. And steffi had lost a set to someone ranked outside the top 40 in this tournament. Graf was certainly not unbeatable on Grass, considering her close run ins with ASVicario, Sabatini and other players.......

Also, lets be honest: Martina Steffi and Tauziat had all played Seles before, and NEVER complained about her grunting. EVER.

Either complain every match, or not at all......fair is fair.

[fong03]

@artisking1 I never said Steffi was unbeatable. I said that she played too well that day for Seles. Sets that she lost in the tournament do not change that. Graf was playing lights out from the first point. She had not played that well in a long time and everything about that surface suited her.

And Steffi never complained about Seles' grunting. I do agree that they should have complained from the beginning, but something needed to be said, Look at the mess that we have on the tour now.

[artisking1]

@fong03

No actually, Graf was not playing "lights out" tennis. She had in fact lost her serve and lost more games than Seles in the tournament. In fact, up until Seles played Martina and Martina started to complain in the second set about Seles' grunting, Monica hadn't lost her serve the ENTIRE Tournament.

Shockingly, Seles had more ACES for the match in the final vs Graf.

The match was LOST on unforced errors, not won on winners, and the worst final ever.

Th stats are very clear on this.

[fong03]

@artisking1 What part of "that day" are you not understanding? The tournament stats don't make a difference. I'm talking about THAT DAY, and Steffi was playing at a level that I don't believe Monica could have beaten on grass. It's that simple. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to understand. Steffi was playing too well THAT DAY. Even if Monica grunted, I don't think she would have won. It would have been closer, but that's it.

Your match analysis is seriously lacking as well.

[artisking1]

@fong03

What part of "bullshit" do you not understand?

The simple truth is, it is idiotic to say that Graf "was playing at a Level" that Seles couldn't have beaten, even at her best. Thats nonsense, and YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. Its equally stupid if I were to say that Seles would have beaten Graf had she played her best.I DON"T KNOW THAT...

I understand you perfectly, Its just a stupid assertion. The truth is, we were all robbed of what would have been a great final, Seles & Graf fans alike.

[fong03]

@artisking1 You can't be this dense. Of course I DON'T KNOW. It's called an opinion and it's based on what I know about the two of them and what I actually saw that day.

What I do know is that you continue to reply with a bunch of crap because you either have terrible reading comprehension skills or because you don't know how to put together a coherent response. You also don't know how to properly analyze a tennis match either. Save yourself the trouble and stop responding.

[artisking1]

@fong03

Stupid, if Im so dense, stop posting to me. Move on.

As for this argument, your assertion is idiotic. You have no idea, had the playing ground been equal, what would have happened that day between Graf and Seles and neither do I.

Its immaterial now, dummy, so lets just agree to disagree. but as I've said before, the shame is not in the result, but in the quality of match, which was damaged with all the inflammatory nonsense.

And it is no trouble at all responding to you.

LOL.

[spartyutube]

How can it be a hindrance when she's grunting when the ball is on her side of the court? Monica is not grunting while Martina is hitting it!

[jambamz]

@spartyutube duh, did you not listen? it is imperative to be able to hear the ball hit the racket when the game is played at the highest level, and grunting hinders your opponents ability to do this

[Nyck227]

the reason i watch women's tennis is for the grunts--Venus and Serena are way louder than monica ever was!

[karrtt1234]

@Nyck227 Venus and Serena scream not grunt !!!

[jambamz]

martina was right, and still is, there is no need in grunting. I cant watch the womens game nowadays for this reason. seles was a fantastic player though, although martina in her prime would have stuffed her in my opinion

[heninwarrior]

@jambamz Everyone grunts nowadays. I think they probably should have decided in an off season to make a specific set of regulations about it since now it has gotten out of control with everyone grunting so loud.

[danielitopayasito]

estan todos mal o que les pasa!? nunca jugaron tenis? es lo mas normal gritar cuando uno le pega a la pelota, me parece logico y para nada desagradable. es el estilo de cada jugador.

[russianskatingfan]

I agree. I actually dont think Monica was that bad as a grunter. Sharapova, Serena, and some of the young new players are disgusting and take it to unacceptable levels.

[kangaroosbraun]

Navratilova was pompous at Wimbledon. She thought she acdtually OWNED it which she definately did not. Years later she sucked up to Monica when Monica had her return to tennis by playing her in that exhibition.

[Folkstone57]

@kangaroosbraun Martina was fairly justified in thinking she owned Winbledon. The only other player who can be said to own the tournament would be BJK, who Martina helped to win her record number of titles which Martina eventually surpassed.

[aquaboy71]

as a tennis player, you face many distractions - the best players are able to focus and ignore them IMO. most of the top women today grunt like crazy - no complaints. the most respected sport athletes just do their thing and don't contribute to any drama.

[saar144]

navratilova is such a bitch.

[Cmelton925]

The comments coming from some of you are soooo funny...I think someone here is mad because Dinara Safina cant win anything but the hopman cup LMAO

[tibetboy01]

To me Steffi Graf, Monica Seles and Martina Navratilova are the 3 greatest players of all time... I'm a Steffi Graf's fan but I would still vote both Steffi Graf and Monica Seles the top two. However, we all cannot deny the fact that neither Steffi nor Monica plays as well as Martina Navratilova at the age of 35. They didn't make it that long.

[zubruvka]

Monica was a little slow - not the world's greatest runner. Martina lacked the sting to hurt Monica at that stage in her career, so when playing Steffi in the final Monica was late on most of her shots. Plus, her relatively average footwork is not good enough on grass.

[JexPAuk]

Monica was ordered not to grunt in the finals which resulted in a heavy loss scoring just 3 games...Disgusting./Monica had 8 GS at 18!!Without her stabbing all specialists admit that she wld have been the greatest of all.Love U Monica.

[actonhottie]

well i dont think she would of been the greatest. she was no athlete i'm sorry!

[JexPAuk]

8 GS at 18,even Graf did not have as many GS at the same age.She beat Graf all the time when she was N°1,of course she was an athlete,you d't beat Graf without being one.What matters is the specialists+former players opinion,not yours:D.Monica is the BEST.

[Peteypooooo]

Monica was scary how good she is when playing like this!

[newmark401]

Impossible to imagine an umpire ticking a player off about his or her grunting nowadays (2009), when it is almost a norm.

[fong03]

@newmark401 It is even more ridiculous now because nothing was done when it first began. It just isn't necessary. Grunting is common. Screaming is not. The fact that Seles didn't grunt during practice and that great champions like Graf and Federer, both of whom can wallop the ball, did not need to need to scream is illustrative.The women today are ridiculous and the men are getting just as bad.

[raff23]

navratilova was as intense on a tennis court as anyone, barely raised so much as a smile even when she was winning easily.

[trent8002003]

At this awesome form, Monica should have won Wimbledon 92 twice over. No wonder all the other players were seething with jealousy and resorted to the underhanded complaint agst her grunts. Steffi was lucky she had 118 players behind her to topple Monica.

[actonhottie]

steffi destroyed monica in the final

[trent8002003]

Yeah right, by threatening to complain agst Monica over grunting on the EVE of their final. If Graf could stoop so low, she really deserved to take Wimbledon 92. Well done, Graf!

[actonhottie]

what are you talking about graf won that match fair and square steffi never complained she just wanted 2 play. monica likes steffi i like monica so enough already that was like 15  years ago

[trent8002003]

You certainly are clueless, aren't you? Graf, when interviewed by reporters on the EVE of her final with Monica about whether she'd follow Tauziat and Navratilova in making complaints agst Monica during a match, said, " I don't know, Monica was pretty loud at Roland Garros". If that ain't a threat, nothing is. Why else do you think Monica stifled her grunts during the final. That destroyed her concentration and her game. Graf won fair and square? Yeah right, fair and square my FOOT!

[actonhottie]

enough already your the only person who believes that happened give  me a break plus a win is a win its over and done with plus who gives a shit bout it now no one cares anymore that was 15 years ago.I was 7 years old i just wanted to see the match. Plus i always loved seles and graf equally. I cant believe your still fixed on a stupid match that happened 15 years ago. no one cares there both retired its done.

[trent8002003]

You give a shit. See how worked up you are. Come on, it's just a stupid match 15 yrs ago. No one cares blah blah blah. Yeah right. You care. I am onto you........

[russianskatingfan]

ROTFL, Seles is shit on grass. She was lucky to play a grandma Navratilova who was 30% what she was rather than Sabatini or she wouldnt have even been in the final. Graf destroyed her in the final since Monica isnt worthy to carry Graf's racquet bag to the court on grass.

[trent8002003]

That's strange. Cos my take on events is that Steffi was really lucky to play Monica in 1992 when Monica's game was indeed destroyed NOT by Graf but by concerted action from all other 123 players who pressured her to stifle her grunts thus disrupting her rhythm. How could Graf not win? It's 123 vs 1.

[russianskatingfan]

Where is Monica's Wimbledon title? I guess the same place where Pete Sampras's French Open title is. Did you realize Monica has only been past the quarters of Wimbledon ONCE her whole career. The same number of times Sampras has been past the quarters of the French, LOL! While still ranked near the top she has lost to Studenikova, Testud, and Lucic in the first week of Wimbledon. Get your head out of the clouds, Monica is a great player but she is not a grass courter and never was.

[trent8002003]

Why don't you ask Gunther Parche who stabbed Monica? Why don't you ask Graf why she threatened to complain agst Monica on the eve of their wimbledon final in 92? We all know Monica wasn't the same player when she returned to the tour after the stabbing. Search your heart to see if you can honestly claim that Monica never had a chance to win Wimbledon 92.

[russianskatingfan]

Like I said the only reason Seles even made the final was she was lucky to be in the easy half where the only only other good player was a 35 year old Navratilova who had been thumped in her last 2 grass events by a then 15 year old Capriati and Linda Wild. Had Seles been in Grafs half with Sabatini, Capriati, and Novotna she wouldnt have even made the final. It is no surprise this was her only Wimbledon final as it was pretty much a fluke in the first place as the one sided final showed.

[russianskatingfan]

Also the stabbing cannot be an excuse for her losses to such low lights as Studenikova and Testud at Wimbledon. These are players she was beating 6-1, 6-1 on other surfaces all the time even after the stabbing yet could lose to on grass. In 1989 when Seles was only 15 she was good enough to take Graf to 3 full sets on clay but got only 1 game on grass. Get out of your lala land. Monica was a great player who was shit on grass, and her making 1 final of Wimbledon was a miracle. Accept reality.

[trent8002003]

You really don't know anything, do you? Graf lost to Lori Mcneil TWICE even when Monica was OUT and she was dominating. Graf also lost 6062 to Arantxa in 91 French Open and 6262 to Mary Pierce. Martina Navratilova lost to Zina Garrison in 89 USO when she was the form player. It's called upsets. It happens to everyone.

[russianskatingfan]

Yes, Graf lost to McNeil once at Wimbledon. McNeil >>> Studenikova, Testud, and Lucic on grass. Martina lost to Garrison at the 88 U.S Open in a year she was badly off form. The next year in better form she easily beat Garrison at the U.S Open. Nice try but you fail.

The fact is Monica has ALWAYS had worse showings at Wimbledon than all other surfaces. Prime, post stabbing, in diapers, you name it. Whining about your fantasy of her winning Wimbledon 92 is not going to change that.

[trent8002003]

Grass has never been Monica's best surface RELATIVELY speaking just as clay was never Graf or Martina's best surface. By itself, Monica's record at Wimbledon was excellent PRE-stabbing. She reahced 4th round in 89, QF in 90 and final 92 in 3 tries. That doesn't compare poorly at all with Graf or Navratilova's wimbledon record.

[russianskatingfan]

Yes and a Seles fanatic like yourself is delusional enough to probably believe Seles was on her way to winning 7 or 9 Wimbledons like Graf or Navratilova without the stabbing too, LOL!!

[TheNokia4867]

your wrong graf was very good on clay she won 6 french  opens. she was good on all surfaces

[russianskatingfan]

By the way there are 127 other players in a 128 women draw, not 123. Also are you now even saying players who had already lost in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounds cared about Monica grunting or not since they were so in love with Tauziat and Navratilova they begged them to do that as they wanted one of them to win so badly, LOL! Give up now, you already look like an idiot.

[trent8002003]

Are you saying they never mentioned and yapped about it in the locker room? You are even stupider than you sound. Do you know anything about tennis? Do you know what players do in player's lounges and locker rooms? When Graf was dominating, all players at 88 US open mounted a stop Graf campaign. So yes, from 1st round onward, all other players wanted to stop Monica whichever way they could.