@Zatzzo Yeah it was. Germany had its day, it still has the best producers and inventors in the world and it appears that all of Europe is now turning back to Germany to lead the EU out of its financial crisis. No doubt that the EU is just the extended and revived "Holy Roman Empire". The wicked nazi reich stood atop the ruins of German greatness for the purpose of its own gain. Germany produced people like Luther, Bach etc. etc. Germany at the outset of WW2 had the most advanced tech and eco.
@rx7here I know i just meant that weimar is a good argument against democracy. 25 different cabinets in fourteen years. All governments were coalitions of parties that had little in common and broke up over the smallest disagreement. I just think Chomsky is exaggerating when he compares the greatness of Weimar with the Third Reich.
I have a hard time felling bad for those that have been smashed by Neo/ Lib economics. If they would read a book, maybe one a year, they would understand that Rush and Right Wing Radio does nothing but push the Neo/Lib agenda. Tea Baggers need to visit Amazon and spend 12 bucks on a book about economics or trade policy.
tea party is sorting itself out. the central theme there is constitutional republic, rule of law, private property rights. they are certainly not left, I would call them conservatives, moderate, right. They are certainly not anarchists, they do believe in the rule of law to restrict government.
@SylvanCyborg As a TPer since the beginning, I must say that we are having a VERY hard time sorting ourselves out, especially considering the resources that the neo-conservatives have arrayed against us in order to muddy the water. From the beginning (and for years before most ppl gave a shit) we were harping about the unfair corporate welfare that Wall-street was getting (and still is) and the unreasonable level of government intervention into our economic lives.
@12thHamster "Oh, that's right, it's the typical liberal line: If you don't agree with me, you must be stupid." Only a douchebag liberal would think such a thing. The bottomline is that the Democrats and Republicans are both bought and paid for. It's time to do what the founders said to do when the current system doesn't work, make a new one!
@pharmdable Real Life? you mean Rich Life? Because as a poor white trash person that has been working since I was 15 and pulled my own bootstraps up and lifted myself up through college and the corporate world only to have my entire career outsourced to India and have to start all over again in college on my own dime = again = I'd say the TEA People know nothing about real life. They only believe that since they get taxed - they are our owners.
Conservatives and Libertarians are for limiting government power. Nazi's were socialists who wanted to maximize government power. They are opposite systems.
-Well, Chomsky said himself he didn't want to press that analogy too hard, but there are definite parallels. Also, the Nazi's weren't true socialists any more than the Russians were- both co-opted a term that at the time had strong moral standing in the minds of many and used it as a smoke screen for their one-party totalitarianism.
@Pelagius69 The USSR was essentially a state capitalist regime or if measured in other ways a dictatorial socialist regime. The Nazi's however, only tacked Socialist on the end of their name to try to draw the moderates from the major opposition at the time who were democratic socialists, who the Nazi's accordingly dealt with in the Night of the Long Knives.
@senorfreebie Wrong. The History of the Russian revolution is a very complicated one, please don't try and sum it up with little labels that really have no depth to them.
I do not see any danger from the right at all--moderate conservatives are merely social democrats, like most democrats, whereas progressives tend to be democratic socialists who would at most want some nationalizations, whereas conservatives are mostly a mix of libertarians in economics and some patriotic feeling for the military--perhaps too trusting of state managers, to use a phrase Chomsky has used, if I recall right.
Chomsky's analysis of the Tea Party is sincere but flawed. Here's the way he sees it: Average, middle class Americans have been screwed by the system. They are frustrated and justifiably want answers.
So far, so good, but he missteps when he draws a parallel to Nazi Germany. Conservatives and Libertarians are for limiting government power. Nazi's were socialists who wanted to maximize government power. They are opposite systems.
@utube9000 Forest for the trees buddy. The point he is making is that if people have had enough and that ball gets rolling, nothing will stop even those who wish to limit government power from seeking more of it to rid the world of it's perception of evil. The power brokers of the world would just love that.
Right, I know what you're saying - but that dynamic goes for ALL activists, both right and left. There is a little Fascist and Communist in all of us. (Personally, I'd like a fascist dictatorship RIGHT NOW against the BP & the oil spill)
My main point- of all the political systems, a constitutional republic is the MOST MODERATE. It balances powers and provides stability. It is NOT fascist or Nazi, it's open and decentralized.
@utube9000 Maynard said it best "Don't these talking monkeys know that Eden has enough to go around"....we CAN allllllllllll have our cake and eat it too if everyone will cut out management i.e. The Forbes list....give them a choice..a)death or b)solitary confinement for the rest of your life. That's a better set of options they give service members which is "go die for me and my bank account". Their greed not only goes unpunished but it's celebrated by those it enslaves.
His comparison wasn't about the functions of government power, but the propganda that was being spread at the time, with little or no opposing views by the same side. Right now you don't hear any moderate or centrist conservatives challenging the really strong ideological rhetoric coming from the far right.
I disagree. What do you consider the "far right" anyways? The Tea Party?
For the love of God, the Tea Party are very moderate, mostly middle class, people who simply want our government to obey constitutional BASICS. They are not fascists or Nazis or militants - they are normal Americans who are concerned with our current trillion dollar spending spree.
And what do you consider "really strong ideological rhetoric"? Asking that our border laws be enforced like every other country? Jeeez....
Poor old Chimpsky. Still haunted, as he should be, by his shameful support for Pol Pot, and still determined to exculpate himself, which is why he sees Nazis everywhere. It's a great act. He has made mountains of money off of 1st world suburbia's many flakes and of course off of America-obsessed Euroweenies.
@alphecca2539 well...yea of course i could search for myself, but your making a strong claim......if you can't back it up.....then it has no validity...im curious of your claims...enlighten me
That's preposterous. He was simply pointing out the facts, and nobody ever proved him wrong. Casualties from Pol-Pot and from American bombing runs in Cambodia were both exaggerated & he pointed out both.
Also he's the only leftist I've seen that has qualified the good intentions of Tea Parties. He's simply pointing out that they've been hijacked, and anyone who was there from the beginning can confirm this. It started as a Ron Paul anti-war thing, it quickly became a Sarah Palin pro-war thing.
What a piece of shit!
MrSoundofsilence 6 months ago
german never was the peak in literature.
Zatzzo 7 months ago
@Zatzzo Yeah it was. Germany had its day, it still has the best producers and inventors in the world and it appears that all of Europe is now turning back to Germany to lead the EU out of its financial crisis. No doubt that the EU is just the extended and revived "Holy Roman Empire". The wicked nazi reich stood atop the ruins of German greatness for the purpose of its own gain. Germany produced people like Luther, Bach etc. etc. Germany at the outset of WW2 had the most advanced tech and eco.
WorshipInTruth 4 months ago
@WorshipInTruth They will again?
mobilechief 2 months ago
weimar a model of democratic functioning? WHAT!!
Machinegunhalligan 9 months ago
@Machinegunhalligan yes it was the most democratic model up to today
rx7here 9 months ago
@rx7here I know i just meant that weimar is a good argument against democracy. 25 different cabinets in fourteen years. All governments were coalitions of parties that had little in common and broke up over the smallest disagreement. I just think Chomsky is exaggerating when he compares the greatness of Weimar with the Third Reich.
Machinegunhalligan 9 months ago
I have a hard time felling bad for those that have been smashed by Neo/ Lib economics. If they would read a book, maybe one a year, they would understand that Rush and Right Wing Radio does nothing but push the Neo/Lib agenda. Tea Baggers need to visit Amazon and spend 12 bucks on a book about economics or trade policy.
Is that too much to ask in America today ??
rickbar123 10 months ago
"Sort of an internal logic" ????
Well gee, thankyou Noam for the breadcrumbs
_if only we were smart enough to accept the liberal dogma,
-which is to say, stick our heads back up our ass
Zendout1 11 months ago
@Zendout1 Why is it that Chomsky is always attacking "liberals"? Explain that one to me.
doublestrokeroll 10 months ago
@doublestrokeroll Neo/Lib is a economic term. It has nothing to do with Liberals.
rickbar123 10 months ago 4
@doublestrokeroll Because he is an Anarchist.
tommytowne 7 months ago
tea party is sorting itself out. the central theme there is constitutional republic, rule of law, private property rights. they are certainly not left, I would call them conservatives, moderate, right. They are certainly not anarchists, they do believe in the rule of law to restrict government.
SylvanCyborg 11 months ago
@SylvanCyborg As a TPer since the beginning, I must say that we are having a VERY hard time sorting ourselves out, especially considering the resources that the neo-conservatives have arrayed against us in order to muddy the water. From the beginning (and for years before most ppl gave a shit) we were harping about the unfair corporate welfare that Wall-street was getting (and still is) and the unreasonable level of government intervention into our economic lives.
etherclear 10 months ago
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@12thHamster "Oh, that's right, it's the typical liberal line: If you don't agree with me, you must be stupid." Only a douchebag liberal would think such a thing. The bottomline is that the Democrats and Republicans are both bought and paid for. It's time to do what the founders said to do when the current system doesn't work, make a new one!
tstruss912 1 year ago 3
This Chomsky type of people only talk, talk , and talk. They know nothing about real life, spoiled bust-d liberals.
pharmdable 1 year ago
@pharmdable Real Life? you mean Rich Life? Because as a poor white trash person that has been working since I was 15 and pulled my own bootstraps up and lifted myself up through college and the corporate world only to have my entire career outsourced to India and have to start all over again in college on my own dime = again = I'd say the TEA People know nothing about real life. They only believe that since they get taxed - they are our owners.
jjtb4v 1 year ago
@pharmdable: Ignorance at its best. You know nothing about all the shit Chomsky's been through, especially during the Civil Rights movement.
chinopisces 11 months ago
Conservatives and Libertarians are for limiting government power. Nazi's were socialists who wanted to maximize government power. They are opposite systems.
-Well, Chomsky said himself he didn't want to press that analogy too hard, but there are definite parallels. Also, the Nazi's weren't true socialists any more than the Russians were- both co-opted a term that at the time had strong moral standing in the minds of many and used it as a smoke screen for their one-party totalitarianism.
Pelagius69 1 year ago
@Pelagius69
". Nazi's were socialists".
Ignorance
Individeoal 1 year ago
@Individeoal NAZIS weren''t socialist at all - they wereo pposite of that. Theysocialized everything to themselves - they were Nazi-Fascists.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
@Pelagius69 The USSR was essentially a state capitalist regime or if measured in other ways a dictatorial socialist regime. The Nazi's however, only tacked Socialist on the end of their name to try to draw the moderates from the major opposition at the time who were democratic socialists, who the Nazi's accordingly dealt with in the Night of the Long Knives.
senorfreebie 1 year ago
Comment removed
measuringtape123 10 months ago
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@senorfreebie Wrong. The History of the Russian revolution is a very complicated one, please don't try and sum it up with little labels that really have no depth to them.
measuringtape123 10 months ago 2
@measuringtape123 There is nothing wrong with a little bit of jingoism where comment's have character limits.
senorfreebie 10 months ago
I do not see any danger from the right at all--moderate conservatives are merely social democrats, like most democrats, whereas progressives tend to be democratic socialists who would at most want some nationalizations, whereas conservatives are mostly a mix of libertarians in economics and some patriotic feeling for the military--perhaps too trusting of state managers, to use a phrase Chomsky has used, if I recall right.
CincinnatusUSA 1 year ago
Chomsky's analysis of the Tea Party is sincere but flawed. Here's the way he sees it: Average, middle class Americans have been screwed by the system. They are frustrated and justifiably want answers.
So far, so good, but he missteps when he draws a parallel to Nazi Germany. Conservatives and Libertarians are for limiting government power. Nazi's were socialists who wanted to maximize government power. They are opposite systems.
utube9000 1 year ago
@utube9000 Forest for the trees buddy. The point he is making is that if people have had enough and that ball gets rolling, nothing will stop even those who wish to limit government power from seeking more of it to rid the world of it's perception of evil. The power brokers of the world would just love that.
arizonabay07 1 year ago
Right, I know what you're saying - but that dynamic goes for ALL activists, both right and left. There is a little Fascist and Communist in all of us. (Personally, I'd like a fascist dictatorship RIGHT NOW against the BP & the oil spill)
My main point- of all the political systems, a constitutional republic is the MOST MODERATE. It balances powers and provides stability. It is NOT fascist or Nazi, it's open and decentralized.
utube9000 1 year ago
@utube9000 Maynard said it best "Don't these talking monkeys know that Eden has enough to go around"....we CAN allllllllllll have our cake and eat it too if everyone will cut out management i.e. The Forbes list....give them a choice..a)death or b)solitary confinement for the rest of your life. That's a better set of options they give service members which is "go die for me and my bank account". Their greed not only goes unpunished but it's celebrated by those it enslaves.
arizonabay07 1 year ago
@utube9000
His comparison wasn't about the functions of government power, but the propganda that was being spread at the time, with little or no opposing views by the same side. Right now you don't hear any moderate or centrist conservatives challenging the really strong ideological rhetoric coming from the far right.
scbluesman13 1 year ago
I disagree. What do you consider the "far right" anyways? The Tea Party?
For the love of God, the Tea Party are very moderate, mostly middle class, people who simply want our government to obey constitutional BASICS. They are not fascists or Nazis or militants - they are normal Americans who are concerned with our current trillion dollar spending spree.
And what do you consider "really strong ideological rhetoric"? Asking that our border laws be enforced like every other country? Jeeez....
utube9000 1 year ago
What do I consider strong ideological rhetoric? Let's see:
Obama = socialist muslim immigrant dictator.
heathcare reform = government take over.
racial profiling is OK so long as it "keeps us safe".
Muslims are evil boogeymen out to get you and your family.
Liberals only want to raise your taxes and take your guns.
Homosexuals should not have the same rights as heterosexual citizens.
Diplomacy = Soft on terrorism.
Tea Party = Taking back "our" country (who is "our")?
scbluesman13 1 year ago
Comment removed
CincinnatusUSA 1 year ago
@utube9000 nah there functionally anarchists. LIKE CHOMSKY! except there not as moderate on economic policies.
ligerman30 1 year ago
Poor old Chimpsky. Still haunted, as he should be, by his shameful support for Pol Pot, and still determined to exculpate himself, which is why he sees Nazis everywhere. It's a great act. He has made mountains of money off of 1st world suburbia's many flakes and of course off of America-obsessed Euroweenies.
alphecca2539 1 year ago
@alphecca2539 proof? references?
dankbot420 1 year ago
@dankbot420 "proof? references? " Search for yourself. You might learn something.
alphecca2539 1 year ago
@alphecca2539 well...yea of course i could search for myself, but your making a strong claim......if you can't back it up.....then it has no validity...im curious of your claims...enlighten me
dankbot420 1 year ago
@dankbot420 - Your reply is why I so often use the appellation "Lefty-Conformist."
Why are you so terrified of *personally* examining the record of Chomsky's pronunciations on the Khmer Rouge and Pol Pot?
alphecca2539 1 year ago
That's preposterous. He was simply pointing out the facts, and nobody ever proved him wrong. Casualties from Pol-Pot and from American bombing runs in Cambodia were both exaggerated & he pointed out both.
Also he's the only leftist I've seen that has qualified the good intentions of Tea Parties. He's simply pointing out that they've been hijacked, and anyone who was there from the beginning can confirm this. It started as a Ron Paul anti-war thing, it quickly became a Sarah Palin pro-war thing.
HLFracture 1 year ago