Debating "Non-Self" with Tsem Tulku Rinpoche. MUST WATCH!!!

[eaglerock999]

Unfortunately the sound quality is so bad I am unable to follow it,and its all so hurried.

What a pity.

[rainbowlght]

Excellent video. Tsem Rinpoche really makes his students THINK! How fortunate and privilege to have such Dharma teachers. I mean lets face it, I ain't going into the jungle to meditate and I ain't going to just abandon my kids. Tsem Rinpoche's teachings helps ppl like me apply Dharma in my life without having to be dramatic or extreme like become a monk or nun, though there is nothing wrong with that. It's just not everyone can. I'm glad Dharma exist for everyone as Buddha intended :)

[tsltrm]

to which non self is the debate about?

in tibetan we have : gangzag ki dagmed and cho ki dagmed. i hope rinpoche had discussed both of them...

[teamshintaichi]

@tsltrm could you please explain each one? I haven't heard about two kinds. i thought it was just one concept.

[Dungkar80]

This guy sounds like he knows quite a lot of Dharma and this debate dispels a lot of misconceptions we have about things that we hold on so tight that we suffer because of it. That is the beauty of the Dharma. Even on a philosophy-level, by listening and contemplating, one can be liberated and be happy.

[bhusukumode]

Brilliant! But what do we do with such conclusion from such a powerful debate? More intellectual work? More conviction in the Dharma? More willing to listen to the Guru and transform or just nothing?

[frozbyte23]

I am amidst a High Lama, there are many Tulkus and great practitioners from their previous lives. I am sure Rinpoche is doing his best to nuture them to the best of his ability to ensure that they will benefit many people in the future.

[bhusukumode]

What happens if a Tulku doesn't follow his previous life path and goes on and pursue a worldly life? Would he be alright just like anybody else? Will he ever be contented with a worldly life? Hmmm

[frozbyte23]

Hmmm Tulku? Hmmm.... Tulku - Tibetan for Emanation Body of an Enlightened Being. H E Tsem Tulku Rinpoche despite his unconventional style, I could still visualize him as a Tulku but this guy...hmmmm

[Dungkar80]

Wow! Rinpoche is recognizing this guy as an unofficial Tulku. Hope he continues with Dharma work in this life. Heard that many Tulkus goes off when they don't continue their Dharma work. I heard they are called Tulku disease...

[mujaku]

The atman is the Tathagatagarbha. All beings possess a Buddha Nature: this is what the atman is. This atman, from the start, is always covered by innumerable passions (klesha): this is why beings are unable to see it. ~ Mahaparinirvana-sutra

[iamjezuzchrist]

O where ye be Socrates!?

[thedharmaprince]

"If you continue to practice - you reach another level!" I think this thought is applicable to everything we do! The fact is that we can develop spiritually and this is much different from developing psychologically. :)

[redlatties]

Wow! Rinpoche is so quick. Very good debate indeed.

[thedonjohns]

dharma through art, cool, really i don't like to pray and meditate. thats sooo like old man aleady duh..!

[bubblesofbliss]

wheres this Lama based does he have a weebsite?

[thedonjohns]

I found it g00gle it tsemtulku ull find it. lots of information, you'll go nuts im quite interested in the "first tibetan art studio in south east asia", my wifes quite the arteest

[cokeismyit]

Wow thats truly special, to be able to debate with a real life Tibetan Rinpoche in English about such a profound topic as non-self. I am soo far away from any dharma centre or a Lama and theres no one around me whom I can even discuss ideas like this with. They are caught up in the affairs of samsara. I wish I had a lama 

[iwanadrink]

Yes it really is special I hope these people know what a jewel they have in their hands. Where I come from we need a translator to discuss the finer points of dharma with the visiting Lama dont get me wrong Im not complaining, we love him immensely. M sure the people who take of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche do a great job who else is posting real videos on youtube.

[bubblesofbliss]

you know coke. You have started the right way, by creating the cause. You speaking out that your lack of dharma in your area, or close by, helps create causes for it to appear in future. You know if we dont request for a teacher to teach they wont.

[lordofthehans]

hey cokeismyit dont be sad, you actually should talk about non-self with people around you, could wake them up from this wakeful stupor they call life. Or at least give them something to think about.when their eating their mc'ds, watch'n their cnn, on lcd... farrrk what an existence

[sotonguy123]

Enlightened beings have strong and quick mind, how fortunate that Tsem Tulku Rinpoche actually stays in Malaysia? Om Mani Padme Hum!

[ekwong12]

Brilliant...Rinpoche showing one of the reasons we have a lama, to test us in any and all ways. Rinpoche's quick mind is incredible to witness.

[montysurfsandclimbs]

spiritual materialism

[montysurfsandclimbs]

spiritual materialsim

[nekoboy86]

that refers to people who think they're holy and put people down with that. This is something different: it helps clear doubts. The former leads nowhere.

[ahantu]

I wish I have such teacher to teach in my school right now. This kind of debate can be apply in many fields such as Science, Language, ...etc.

[teliael]

Sadly my school only has english debate. Also, when you debate with people who are not intrested in Dharma, it's just gonna turn into a whole mess of people trying to be right. School subjects cant be debated as they're fixed...there's nothing to debate, really when it comes to those kind of sciences.

[teliael]

there is so much to be learnt from this debate, like from the style they are debating and how the entire point of the debate is to learn and not to disprove each other. This is very different from ordinary debates where the entire purpose is just to win. This is for the sake of finding flaws in one's logic and correcting it. tsemtulku(dot)com

[dabeisyin]

those are hard questions

[marinkun99]

it's not really hard if you put your mind to it and think. They're all quite logical, but it is just that the answer sits in the corner of our mind that we do not have the guts to face. We will see everything once that veil has been lifted up.

[kyorantenshi]

since your mind is peaceful in some situations, it shows that suffering is not inherently in you and that can be changed with the correct method and enough effort.

[dabeisyin]

can you make difficult situations peaceful too?

[kyorantenshi]

of course it is possible. All you need to do is change your perception of how things are and mantain your calm, and realize that what you are in is impermanent and will come to pass. Therefore, your preception that the situation is bad and that it will last is false and when you realize that and not react because of it things will be calm again :)

[redseb86]

if you understand suffering and stopped its causes, residual karma will still be around.

[nekoboy86]

this is a very intresting way of learning the Dharma. Debating forces the mind to be alert and aware at the same time, causing it to be sharp in order to perceive what is happening and also on answering the questions given by the opponent. It is very effective in training the mind to be sharper.

[spartacus24pit]

What is Gross karma ?

[nekoboy86]

gross karma is karma that has direct result. also known as direct karma.

[lostnalone]

I found this very helpful

[Taesungy]

How come he has to slap his hands?

[nekoboy86]

its when he makes a point. that is how tibetan monks debate. It forces the other party to listen and acknowledge what has been said. It's very different from those western style intellectual debates.

[frozbyte23]

Hi Taesungy, its a Tibetan tradition to strike a point or pose a question. The clap always serves to symbolically mean to awaken your opponent from ignorance or something along those lines

[angelembassy]

Appreciate very much the form of the teaching between student and teacher. Can we see more of the recording and if yes how.....???

Thank you so much!!!

[fortunexever]

Thank you for posting this debate. Thanks to Rimpoche for subtitles. Please rearrange the audio.

[tsemtulku]

TR: Peace arise in one way or two way? By concentration or by understanding the subject?

B: Both.

TR: Very good.

[tsemtulku]

TR: Meditation on what?

B: Actually we must have a certain level of concentration in the mind so that to reach the peaceful level and start to comtemplate on that understanding

TR: So therefore the mind is in peace therefore you can focus, you can stay on the subject more clearly

B: Correct

TR: If you stay on the subject more clearly, you gain understanding, is that correct?

B: Correct

TR: You get understanding, peace arises at the same time.

B: Yes.

[tsemtulku]

TR: so therefore, in your opinion right now, how do we stop wrong preception that preceives everything is unchangeable and stiff and not ever.. In your preception, to change things that we preceive as stiff, unchangeable, what is the first procedure?

B: We must have this preception

TR: Yes, this understanding. For this understanding to become firm, what is necessary?

B: We need to actually purify our mind

TR: How do we purify our mind in your opinion?

B: We must have meditation

[tsemtulku]

TR: It is fixed and permanent because of our distorted view, is that correct

B: Yes

TR: And because of our wrong preception therefore we believe that everything is firm and solid and from that wrong view we suffer, is that correct?

B: Yes

TR: And we create further suffering, is that correct?

B: Yes

TR: And that further sufferings create more further sufferings, is that correct?

B: Yes

TR: Excellent. Excellent.

[tsemtulku]

TR: But your subtle sufferings remain or still won't stop

B: Subtle?

TR: Subtle sufferings remain or stop?

B: Remain

TR: Very good. Very fast and very quick. Therefore, so your subtle still remain, does that mean you are attained?

B: Depends on the level of attainments.

TR: Therefore, to reach out of samsara, to get out of samsara, one need to realise that all things are changeable, is that correct?

B: Correct

TR: And that all things are not fixed and permanent

B:Correct

[tsemtulku]

TR: Will you stop to collecting gross karma if you have the realization of changeability

B: No

TR: Gross karma doesn't stops, gross stubborness doesn't stop, is that correct?

B: No, I mean if you stop the gross karma then they will stop

TR: If you stop believing that the things are not changeable, that they are changeable. Does the gross karma or gross suffering stops?

B: If you only believe, than it's not

TR: If you realized, does your gross suffering stops?

B: Yes

[tsemtulku]

TR: very good. Since your mind is peaceful, the suffering situation is still there, then how you get out of suffering.

B: You continue practice.

TR: If you continue to practice, you reach another level?

B: Yes

TR: If you reached another level, will you start to purify previously accumulated karma?

B: Yes

TR: If you can purify your previously accumulated karma, do you continue to collect more new karma?

B: Depends on how intense your practice...

[tsemtulku]

TR: If your understanding is on intellectual level, and on top of that you collect merits to practice and you realized that yesterday, today and tomorrow is changeable, is not changeless, does your suffering stops?

B: Yes

TR: OK. Your suffering stops. Does that mean that the previously accumulated karma is still there?

B: Yes

TR: If the previous accumulated karma is still there and then we continue suffer or not suffer?

B: The suffering situation is still there but your mind is peaceful

[tsemtulku]

TR: Therefore we believe that it can be changed, because it is not correct perception, we do not suffer.

B: Again?

TR: If we belive that yesterday, today and tomorrow is changeable, and it is not unchanging, therefore we understand that it does not exist by itself, by itself, suffering stops, is that correct?

B: Not really.

TR: If it is not correct, what is correct?

B: OK, depends on your understanding only on intellectual level or deep down...

[tsemtulku]

TR: so we believe that the nature of yesterday, today and tomorrow cannot be transformed, if we believe that it's solid and firm, does that create suffering?

B: Yes

TR: It creates suffering because we think it is unchanging yesterday, today and tomorrow, therefore it is unchanging whatever situation we are in, creates suffering because it cannot be changed, correct?

B: Yes

[tsemtulku]

(The debate in text, if you can't hear it clearly)

TR (Tsem Rinpoche): What's non-self?

B (Bon): That is actually the realization that... the self that we preceive is illusory.

TR: Why is it illusory the self that we preceive? does that means that what we preceive is not there?

B: What we preceive is that the self is unchangeble, It is actually something solid, yesterday is like this, today I'm still like this, tomorrow I'm always be like this. The nature that is unable to be transformed.

[meowtrox]

praises to rinpoche tsem tulku

[Zapruder987]

Bostonviewer is absolutely right.

ON the other hand, Western AND Eastern observers might not even get to the end of this video due to the abominable quality of the sound. Why is it that all Tsem Tulku's videos have such bad sound???? Come on guys, it's 2007, you can afford good rec equipment, your message deserves better!!!!!

[spinalcrackerbox]

A valid point. It is because the single microphone is quite a distance away. A clip on mike for Rinpoche and a seperate mike for the student would help. But many thanks to Rinpoche for the transcription.

[bostonviewer]

Without the basic cultural touchstones, such as the concepts of karma and practice, Western observers might not realize that this teaching is entirely consistent with a secular understanding of the application/practice of modern physical science.

[thubtenwangmo]

What you say about cultural touchstones is accurate, but I believe this will still make an imprint in the western mind. I found the Dharma in this life in a very unconventional way, and I am forever grateful. I found it through a western Buddhist nun via a documentary made of her life. "Chasing Buddha," directed by Amiel Courtin.

[teliael]

There is Dharma everywhere it will always transend cultures although it uses culture as a medium to reach the masses. Therefore, its important to identify which are cultural and which is real Dharma.