Final Cut: The Making and Unmaking of Heaven's Gate (Part 2 of 8)

[keishamania]

Pathetic how Michael Chimino let his Academy Award get to his head. He really must have thought he was invincible and that he was a gift from God. He's crazy and delusional. No wonder power is placed in the wrong hands while the people who really deserve power and control never get it. BTW....Michael Chimino WHO???

[TimCollinsATL]

The film looks visually intriguing from the clips they've shown, but it seems that UA gave Cimino enough rope to hang himself. And he did just that with his perfectionism. The stories about him make working with Kubrick sound like a stroll in the park.

[snakes3425]

Here's a question, if Cimino was so obessed with accuracy how could he over look this one crucial detail, the Johnson County War, the event at the heart of his movie, was fought in Johnson County Wyoming, WHY THE HELL WAS HE FILMING IN MONTANA

[snakes3425]

4:16: that was henious.

Yeah Deer Hunter's success and that best director oscar went right to Cimino's head

[quasimoto270]

MICHAEL CIMENO" THE ED WOOD OF THE LATE 70'S

[AlexDeLarge90]

@quasimoto270

Did Ed Wood ever make an Oscar winning movie like "The Deer Hunter"?

Nobody questions the craftmanship of "Heaven's Gate". Ed Wood was a dreadful scriptwriter who literally wrote on a 13-year old's level. No amount of money, competent actors and cinematography could ever have saved Ed Wood from writing a flop.

[quasimoto270]

@AlexDeLarge90 yeah sure the deer hunter was a great movie and i still watched it to this day, unfortunately the same cannot be said for heaven's gate. i've seen the movie and it was honestly boring to watch, no matter how you spin it, whether for artistic purpose or cinematography, from a viewer standpoint, the movie was a borefest.

[ravishingravi]

The funny part of this documentary is one the point agenda against Cimino. As though he was only one responsible.

[MassimoPiai]

cimino should do the cinematic version of blood meridian.

[GratefulVince]

Isabelle Hupert is smoking hot in this movie...anyone agree?

Also this movie is a masterpiece.

[MondoBeno]

I'm told that Roger Ebert, as he left the theatre, said "it'll be the end of Cimino's career, and good riddance!"

[jksonny]

I think Cimino may be a sociopath - huge egotist, unapologetic liar, no conscience, no empathy, no sense of responsibility or consequences, etc..

[EricAKATheBelgianGuy]

@jksonny I wouldn't go that far, but his ego is incredibly large. I think that he's a compulsive liar as well, but that alone doesn't necessarily make him a sociopath.

[EricAKATheBelgianGuy]

There is one thing that worked about Heaven's Gate- it didn't hurt the career of its actors. After all, Jeff Bridges went on to win an Oscar, Christopher Walken emerged all right, and Kristofferson came back with smaller films. That, IMO, was Cimino's problem- his ego was so large, it was "go big or go home" every time. Even Mickey Rourke, one of his common collaborators, had to do smaller roles before getting his career back on track.

[koln1996]

They already knew that Huppert couldn't really speak English before flying to Paris!!!

Read Bach's book!!!

[trulysarcastic]

Michael Cimino is the Axl Rose of movie directors

[mink61]

Americans don’t appreciate being invited to think about anything, that’s why this film failed at the box-office; the remarks here emphasize that fact. I’m surprised that the gun battle in the closing stages of the film didn’t sell the film; like the remark here about the ‘waltz scene’, exaggeration is common-place...a cheap substitute for originality.

[EricAKATheBelgianGuy]

@mink61 I don't necessarily think it's that; for me, the subject matter is so obscure that nobody can relate to it. I mean, how many people had even heard of the Johnson County War before this film?

[blackamerican40]

Michael Camino just seems to be the type of ego maniac who pretty much had every female on that set ,including Diane Kerreli, servicing him on a daily basis while the filmed that movie.

[blackamerican40]

I wonder if Isabelle Hoppert had to Michael Camino head in order to get a part in that movie?

[zigilwantsu]

WTF? Cowboys dancing on skateboards dancing waltz like dance champions? realistic my ass. That's fucking realistic!! It is not old west, it is like the court of european kings.

[jbdream3]

It seems as though Michael Cimino needed some serious lessons on how to be professional. He certainly wasn't professional with David Field whatsoever.

[krakenwave]

7.20 I got wise blood!

[sirtinycreep]

The movie failed because of Kris Kristofferson who isn't and never was a big star. He can't act and his whole demeanour on screen is one of a Z-rated bit part actor.

[SinAutor]

The Critics were waiting to ambush Cimino. Read Steven Bach's book, it's very good.

[koln1996]

Watch the man's interviews!!!

He's always been creepy!!!

[blackamerican40]

Brad Doriff is the voice of Chucky the evil doll. Did anyone know that?

[Poever]

Willam Defoe narrating this?!

[GTBurns48215]

Despite the films problems, there was another factor that led to this films box office failure. it Was an outside one in 1975 Spielberg premiered Jaws and later Star Wars in 1977. The climate was changing, political, social and economic events meat movie goers wanted ESCAPIST ENTERTAINMENT, they wanted to be scared out of the water, be whisked off to a galaxy far far away, not watch some revisionist history . We see the same thing with all the anti-iraq war films, why the all flopped at the B.O.

[QuietGiantProduction]

this movie was just terrible. heavens gate, not this documentary

[darkkramer666]

@QuietGiantProduction amen!

[theflorgeormix]

have heard about this film for years and wanted to see it, but it is not shown on TV on any kind of a regular basis - not a good sign, then again neither are a lot of Brando's works

[dropzone52761]

Cimino took advantage of the system at United Artists, that should be obvious to everyone.

[nergvol]

The ultimate sin was........the film lost large amount of money. Had it made money, he would have been considered genious.  Ed Wood

[EverettDudgeon138]

@nergvol Thing is, Ed never went over budget. He had a budget and worked within that.

[orpheusband]

@nergvol Did Wood misspell "Genius" too?

[shockraid1]

What an asshole.

[VitoPossilipo]

Cockfighting lessons?

[blackamerican40]

When Michal Camino told his boss to "Go Fuck Himself" and he cast the French actress Isabelle Huppert against thier orders, that should have told them he was trouble from the get go.

[EricAKATheBelgianGuy]

@blackamerican40

Had he scaled it back after "Heaven's Gate," maybe he could be respectable again. However, his follow-up, Year of the Dragon, may have been worse.

[thedrmat]

@EricAKATheBelgianGuy

It was all politicized at some degree. After Heaven's Gate, he became something of a boogeyman within the industry.

[industrialsun]

The reason why big actresses like Fonda, Field, Keaton, etc turned down Huppert's role was most likely that they already signed up for interesting roles with bigger paychecks in other films or that none wanted to play a prostitute in a western (a genre that was out of favor then) or that many people in Hollywood recognized that Deer Hunter was not flawless and somewhat of a flukey success. Huppert's performance is good (the only bad performance in HG is by John Hurt) but her english is choppy.

[maxx88]

I will half to check this film out and judge for my self...it can't be any where as bad as the donkey shit they make today..i mean really the stuff they make now is garbage i don't think iv seen a REALLY good film in theaters for years iv seen some ok movies but nothing great nothing thats really new their so obsessed with cgi special effects they completely neglect good story lines

the plots are just re hashes boring lifeless predictable..

[pawel115]

Big Hollywood female who did not wanted to play lead female role had a hunch.

[jordanSTILLprances]

why did all the major female stars of the time turn down the female lead? i don't get it. had the deer hunter not come out yet? because if it had come out, then you'd think they'd be lining up. because camino was untouchable after 'deer hunter' was released. i'm confused about this, i really am.

[jonathanmelia]

@jordanSTILLprances Because they didn't think the script was very good, that's why. And how right they were. The Deerhunter had been a collaborative exercise but the Heaven's Gate script had been written by Cimino alone, even before he did Thunderbolt And Lightfoot in 1974.

[drduke28]

Cimino definitely looks more like Jon Lovitz. "Yeah that's the ticket!"

[blackamerican40]

I am so obsessed with this documentary. It is amazing how one man could destroy an entire studio. Utterly amazing!!

[veregi]

The thing that strikes me the most, is that in the film "final cut - the making and unmaking of Heavens gate", there is a lot of people who is not interested in the films artistic, historical, scenografical etc abilities at all. Only money! And ignorant people who knows nothing about film is making horrendus comments. Are american obsessed with money?

[jonathanmelia]

@veregi I don't think that's fair. The late Steven Bach was very knowledegable: I'm currently reading his biography of Leni Riefenstahl and it's very good indeed. The book FINAL CUT goes into more depth than this film, it's true, but Bach finishes it by saying, "What one loves about life are the things that LAST, because people who care make sure that they do. Movies might." The problen with the film HEAVEN's GATE is that the film's look became more important than the stilted script.

[veregi]

@jonathanmelia

But your are just repeting the - in my view - the critic outlined in the film "the final cut", without reflecting on the other issues in film making. Vilmos Zsigmond loved the film, and the film has unquestionable qualities which to a large extent is not adressed by the critics.

[jonathanmelia]

@veregi Vilmos Zsigmond WOULD say that though: the best thing about the film is the photography, which is his own work. Even Pauline Kael in The New Yorker called his imagery in the film "extraordinary", which it is, although she hated the film itself. Steven Bach was the film's co-producer who became a writer and teacher after getting fired after the film flopped. But he believed in the film until he saw the final result.

[veregi]

@jonathanmelia

Okay, filmmaking could also be some type of art (historically we have had a lot of "artprojects" which has not been "sound" economically, but which nevertheless has enrichen the following generations with extraordinary visual excitement). All i am saying is that this "scope" is almost forgotten in the treatment of the film in american media (as far as i can see).

[icemachine79]

@veregi We're no more obsessed with money than the people who recently protested about raising the retirement age and other austerity measure in France.

[Ronin27x]

Ray Romano making the Great American film

[scottmanduzy]

success plus ego with a studio's ignorance and blind faith = Heavan's gate

[horsie111]

Michael Cimino sounds like the spoiled child who's asking for more and more from the parent, pushing the boundaries constantly and his parents never spanking his ass or just saying "No". Cimino is not the money guy; he's the artist always trying to get what he can from the studio. As the money people the studio, like the parents, was supposed to know better. When the child is out of control it's the parents' fault. Cimino got the film he wanted; UA simply hung themselves.

[jimmywrangles]

I'm sorry but the roller skate scene is the gayest thing ever filmed.

[AJoeProduction]

It's really too bad Jon Lovitz wasn't apart of SNL in 1979-1980 because he would have torn it up spoofing this guy.

[akillingjoke]

Sweet, Willem Dafoe narrates this!

[cobolsaurus]

In 1984, after being unable to finalize a deal with director Herbert Ross, Paramount Pictures surprisingly offered the job of directing Footloose to Cimino. According to screenwriter Dean Pitchford,[3] Cimino was at the helm of Footloose for four months, making more and more extravagant demands in terms of set construction and overall production. Paramount realized that it potentially had another Heaven's Gate on its hands. Cimino was fired and Ross was brought on to direct the picture.

[bsjt]

Isabelle Huppert is now one of the legends of European cinema; if you've never seen her in anything, see her in "The Piano Teacher," she is incredible. But UA was right. A very young Isabelle Huppert as an Old West madam?

[chriskoob]

a western where people are line dancing on roller skates....how could it go wrong?

[snakes3425]

@chriskoob

You want a list

[No1pearljamfan]

mike cimmino looks a lot different from what he looks now

[Ramble1212]

lol this must be a joke how hard could it be to stay under budget I could have easliy don't this shitty movie

[bangfarang]

Well, you're just a wonderful person, Ramble, and no one else is. But why can't such a wonderful person in Australia write the English for his only sentence here? (And Ramble IS wonderful, readers. If you don't believe it, just look at his channel.)

[Ramble1212]

oh so because I'm not english your having ago? racist prick look at that mook you call a hero his BLACK! oooh racist cracker.

[Ramble1212]

you like to copy and paste don't you.

[gaaden1]

If James Cameron paid the same attention to details on Titanic..., then why is the fourth funnel steaming???

[gold95]

James Cameron paid the same attention to details on Titanic and look at what a flop that was...

[HiredGunz]

shut up

[gold95]

U shut up..

[HiredGunz]

no u

[gold95]

You

[Ruchsacksepp]

gold should shout up /closed bitches

[peabody66]

It wasn't a flop, smarty pants. Please tell me you're being sarcastic.

[gold95]

Are you kidding or what? You had to ask if I was being sarcastic and "correct" me? LOL

[HiredGunz]

lol

[Kalle72]

Obviously, Ray Romano would have to play Michael Cimino in a bio pic!

[nguyend2]

John Lovitz?

[Kalle72]

Damn, I have never noticed/thought about how much they actually look alike! (Romano and Lovitz, that is). Maybe we could say, they have two good choices.. Even though I don't think such a film will ever happen. :D

[HingwayFilms]

Think i would go for lovitz. lol

[goback3spaces]

This doc IS the bio pic!

[captain07234]

@Kalle72

No, Jon Lovitz it would be his greatest role.

[ufuckfacesonofabitch]

@Kalle72 or Jon Lovitz

[The4thGuy]

@Kalle72 Either him or Jon Lovitz! Think about it.

[ufuckfacesonofabitch]

@Kalle72 I'd say Jon Lovitz looks like him in some pictures!

[koln1996]

Cimino's physical change (some say SEX CHANGE) has been utterly shocking!!!

[koln1996]

Mmle. Huppert is quite charming in the film actually!!!

[elitestar]

@Kalle72 Now Yoko Ono would be playing Michael Cimino in a biopic

[SisyphusMyth]

@Kalle72 How about Jon Lovitz?

[albertstock85]

@Kalle72 I always thought Cimino looked like Jon Lovitz

[BannerBombers]

TCM will show the uncut film once in a while

[tokeburns]

i'd really like to see this film. i don't really care if it's slow or long.

[ryantherebel]

I don't think it was that. We've had revisionist westerns before in the form of "The Wild Bunch", "The Outlaw Joesy Wales". I think the critics were just flat bored by the film.

[EricAKATheBelgianGuy]

@ryantherebel I think it was also Cimino's arrogance and attitude toward the press, and some of their vitriol was out of spite. 

[timtak1]

It looks pretty good to me.

I wonder if the depressing (revisionist) take on US history was partially the cause of the damning reviews of the film.