4:46: No,no,no. That would mean in practice that you must restrict severely advertising, and figure out how to run the economy without economic growth that is destroying creation and have made out of humans vulgar, superficial and aggressive sociopaths.
@Alexopolux No. He is simply saying that we ought to ask ourselves Do I need this? or Is this what I really believe? The argument works on an individual level it is not intended to be applicable to economic policies, or advertising.
@childericking Well, philosophy is always applicable to the sciences. It would be foolish to pretend that Magee did not know about the existence of applied psychological techniques designed to stultify (individual) reason. He preferred to raise doubts about state’s role. It seems to me that Singer’s remarks were more down-to-earth by explicitly mentioning wants’ manipulation.
@Alexopolux Yes I understand your point. I think that Magee is pointing out to "illuminati leftists" who think of themselves as the keepers of truth, and to the totalitarian state that would result if these people were to gain political power. I agree with you wholeheartedly in this respect. Still, I am of the opinion that the kind of autognosis described by Hegel can be a good antidote against all forms of alienation and indoctrination
2) Language might have a great effect on this, for the Geasdrman language depend on images. 3) Hegel's dynamic philosophy was too abstract to render in plane language, the reader must connect the dots to grasp it.
@alz3eeam I think that is factual hegel's abstraction was because of his ideas difficult to express in ordinary discourse. I think the developments of Logic could have been a great tool for clarity, its a shame modern logic could not have played a role in his period.
Thanks for the clip, but it seems to me that Singer was short-sighted when it comes to the notion of obscurity that he mentioned at the end. Whether Kant and others were obscure or not doesn't answer the question.No true philosopher, I believe, will deliberately obscure his work for mere fame.There are three possible answers to this. 1) like Kant, Hegel might have obscured his work because he didn't want people to skim over it without taking a second to think.
'If we currently believe liberty is important, and a socialist society is unlikely to be fundamentally interested in liberty, that is a reason for opposing socialism. [...] In principle, we could still be persuaded to support socialism on the basis of other values; but by endorsing the idea that values are relative to the form society takes, Heilbroner effectively debars himself from arguing for socialism on the basis of universal values.'
This is so eerie ... my friends keeps trying to sell me on the Zeitgeist movement and so much of it sounds like Hegel/Marx. I don't know what to think, but I can't help be suspicious of the Z movement and the Venus project.
@katydig the ZM is like Marxism except it has no teeth. You're right to be suspicious but don't worry, it will never get off the ground.
Rather than using human desire for self-actualization (they call it selfishness) to an economic advantage, they demonize it and put forth a case for a very nebulous "resource-based" economy. What's a resource? Iron? Water? Intelligence? Beauty? Creativity? Like communism it would fall apart when practically applied on a large scale. Bless em for trying though.
@katydig Great instincts. You've nailed it. Stay away from all utopianists. They will kill you faster than any other type of person. "Reason" is code for amorality with these types.
Not everyone is a Christian, especially not a fundamentalist as yourself. If Christians were more like Jesus then perhaps this world could be a better place. The famous quote goes something like this, "If Jesus were to come back today, the last thing he'd want to be is a Christian."
@andyx1205 Well you have bought the reverse psychology trap of organized religion which actually gets exposed by the Bible and especially through the teachings of Jesus, who promoted relationship with love as the motivator and faith as the activator. God's inspired Word pushes us to seek knowledge, wisdom, understanding and obtain spiritual discerment to separate truth from deception.
@andyx1205 The Holy Spirit is the highest form of spirituality and philosophy. He leads and guides into all truth and shows you things to come. He reveals God's will for your life by using your God given talents in a creative way, so you can be a blessing to others. That's what makes the world a better place. You seem to miss the whole point on why Jesus came and what He taught. Man made tradition made the Word of God to no effect. That's the problem of organized religion!
Hegel and Marx where Hermetic order luciferians. Professing themselves to be wise they became fools. Deceivers being deceived themselves, misleading people through philosophy and vain deceit, causing people to exchange the truth for a lie to their own destrcution!
@Ramohog Dude what the hell are you talking about lol? Misleading people? With Marx's Communism theory on the side (which has flaws), he was, along with Max Weber and Durkheim, a father of Sociology/modern Social Sciences.
They've had a huge impact on Western Civilization. Do you want us to go back and live in the Dark Ages or during the Crusades?
@andyx1205 Dark ages came through the conjured up gnostic deception of the Catholic church, exposed by the Bible as the whore riding the beast of ancient Babylonian mysticism. They might have had a huge impact on western civilazation, but in the wrong way. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, because they have exchanged the truth for a lie. The Holy Spirit is the answer to all problems, as he leads and guides into all truth!
@Ramohog Actually religion had a large role to play in the Dark Ages, where progression of philosophy and science was very small. It was a stalemate in the progression of humanity. Just admit it, you'd rather live in the Dark Ages, where you could be killed for professing the wrong version of Christianity or what-not.
People like you make Christians look bad, no offense to you.
@Ramohog Yes, this is probably accurate. Certainly Hegel was a cabalist, and it shines through, if you'll pardon the expression, all of his work. The story of Dr. Faustus, rather than that of Percival, though, is the blueprint of the mental/spiritual path endorsed by Hegel. Illuminism in itself isn't really good or evil, just dangerous to handle. It's virtually impossible for many elite children to learn via hard knocks, so they remain infantile. These types crave the flexibility of the occult.
Big brother knows best right!! Philosopher's have a problem re-constructing the meanings of words or using them differently than the rest of society. In other words, misusing them. Epicurus did so with "pleasure"; so does Hegel, and Sartre do so w/ "freedom." Maybe people would be more free, not if they were told what to do by the man, but if they had better access to education (critical thinking).
THESIS: Socrates discovered that the oligarchs had put one over on everyone and had little difficulty in proving it to all comers, especially the children of the oligarchs.
ANTITHESIS: The society became infected with the dread virus of freedom and all hell started to break loose.
SYNTHESIS: Ever since then they've been trying to put the genie back in the bottle by vilifying the Socratic method and demonizing the Platonic (aka pro-human) point of view. Lol.
Hegel's notion of rationality and freedom is quite absurd once one thinks about it for even a minute. Hegel would say that my desire to buy a Porsche, for example, is irrational. Well, if I know that girls likes guys with Porsche's and I like girls, then my desire to buy that car is entirely rational; unless of course Hegel believes that desiring girls is somehow irrational. Our reasons are determined and considered ex ante(in economics). This is consistent with the traditional notion of freedom
Hegel's philosophy is also strikingly similiar to Taoism: the unity of man and the heavens (the totatlity is Tao), not going against the course of nature or Tao etc.
@jchien Um, the opposite. Hegel is absolutely firmly committed to the subversion of nature at any cost. Subverted to what or whom? Why the Superman of course, what else. But don't get any ideas. There can be only a few of those, and the rest must eat cake.
One of the weak points of past socialist democracies was the state's authoritarian method of seeing basic needs as being superior to personal tastes although there was a concept of socialist competition but things like women's nylon stockings or top model cars where somewhat absent from such societies. However, the lassiez-faire concept of a consumer society is also misleading and manipulative.
@Mayer200 Yes, but it is also misleading and manipulative precisely (and only) because it employs the technology of Hegel (the dialectic of a manufactured reality). The advertisers use it all the time. THESIS (problem): You have zits or whatever and zitz suck. ANTITHESIS (reaction): "Oh no, I suck because I have zits!!!" SOLUTION: You must buy our product. Same old, same old. But do understand that Hegel, beneath all the obfuscation, promotes a 100% lassiez-faire superclass and a slave class.
The great movement of Geist through history moving from a state of incompleteness to perfection sounds so much like Hindu Cosmology- God or reason or being or the total universe (brahma) intentionally loses him/itself in the fuckedupedness of the world that gets increasingly worse because it's a great thrill. we become and are expressions of god (incarnations if that's how you want to say it) or society and production (for Marx) and become god (communist) once more some time.
very interesting video thanks
jessyjessy4 3 weeks ago
brilliant video
bribribri56 1 month ago
some really good stuff here
SuperDogbrown 1 month ago
4:46: No,no,no. That would mean in practice that you must restrict severely advertising, and figure out how to run the economy without economic growth that is destroying creation and have made out of humans vulgar, superficial and aggressive sociopaths.
Alexopolux 5 months ago
@Alexopolux No. He is simply saying that we ought to ask ourselves Do I need this? or Is this what I really believe? The argument works on an individual level it is not intended to be applicable to economic policies, or advertising.
childericking 5 months ago
@childericking Well, philosophy is always applicable to the sciences. It would be foolish to pretend that Magee did not know about the existence of applied psychological techniques designed to stultify (individual) reason. He preferred to raise doubts about state’s role. It seems to me that Singer’s remarks were more down-to-earth by explicitly mentioning wants’ manipulation.
Alexopolux 5 months ago
@Alexopolux Yes I understand your point. I think that Magee is pointing out to "illuminati leftists" who think of themselves as the keepers of truth, and to the totalitarian state that would result if these people were to gain political power. I agree with you wholeheartedly in this respect. Still, I am of the opinion that the kind of autognosis described by Hegel can be a good antidote against all forms of alienation and indoctrination
childericking 4 months ago
Funny, I arrived at the same conclusion Magee arrives at at 5:00 the first time I heard a similar argument to that propounded by Hegel.
childericking 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Funny, I arrived at a the same conclusion Magee arrives at at 5:00 the first time I heard someone use an argument similar to that propounded by Hegel
childericking 5 months ago
These videos are great! Although I disagree with many of the philosophers discussed, it's very educational and easy to pick up.
jonathanaconway 6 months ago
2) Language might have a great effect on this, for the Geasdrman language depend on images. 3) Hegel's dynamic philosophy was too abstract to render in plane language, the reader must connect the dots to grasp it.
alz3eeam 10 months ago
@alz3eeam I think that is factual hegel's abstraction was because of his ideas difficult to express in ordinary discourse. I think the developments of Logic could have been a great tool for clarity, its a shame modern logic could not have played a role in his period.
jamesellis33 7 months ago
Thanks for the clip, but it seems to me that Singer was short-sighted when it comes to the notion of obscurity that he mentioned at the end. Whether Kant and others were obscure or not doesn't answer the question.No true philosopher, I believe, will deliberately obscure his work for mere fame.There are three possible answers to this. 1) like Kant, Hegel might have obscured his work because he didn't want people to skim over it without taking a second to think.
alz3eeam 10 months ago
what year is this from?
novoyazemlya 10 months ago
Peter Singer is my nigga
mach1man22 1 year ago 10
Peter Singer on communism:
'If we currently believe liberty is important, and a socialist society is unlikely to be fundamentally interested in liberty, that is a reason for opposing socialism. [...] In principle, we could still be persuaded to support socialism on the basis of other values; but by endorsing the idea that values are relative to the form society takes, Heilbroner effectively debars himself from arguing for socialism on the basis of universal values.'
diogotomediogo 1 year ago
Hegel and Marx would be turning in their graves if they found out someone was associating them with the current Zeigeist movement.
turlough06 1 year ago 4
This is so eerie ... my friends keeps trying to sell me on the Zeitgeist movement and so much of it sounds like Hegel/Marx. I don't know what to think, but I can't help be suspicious of the Z movement and the Venus project.
katydig 1 year ago
@katydig the ZM is like Marxism except it has no teeth. You're right to be suspicious but don't worry, it will never get off the ground.
Rather than using human desire for self-actualization (they call it selfishness) to an economic advantage, they demonize it and put forth a case for a very nebulous "resource-based" economy. What's a resource? Iron? Water? Intelligence? Beauty? Creativity? Like communism it would fall apart when practically applied on a large scale. Bless em for trying though.
SkormFlinxingGlock 1 year ago
@SkormFlinxingGlock What's a resource? Why, slave, how kind of you to ask! That would be YOU!
FinisReflectatOpus 4 days ago
@katydig Great instincts. You've nailed it. Stay away from all utopianists. They will kill you faster than any other type of person. "Reason" is code for amorality with these types.
FinisReflectatOpus 4 days ago
Not everyone is a Christian, especially not a fundamentalist as yourself. If Christians were more like Jesus then perhaps this world could be a better place. The famous quote goes something like this, "If Jesus were to come back today, the last thing he'd want to be is a Christian."
andyx1205 1 year ago
@andyx1205 Well you have bought the reverse psychology trap of organized religion which actually gets exposed by the Bible and especially through the teachings of Jesus, who promoted relationship with love as the motivator and faith as the activator. God's inspired Word pushes us to seek knowledge, wisdom, understanding and obtain spiritual discerment to separate truth from deception.
Ramohog 1 year ago
@andyx1205 The Holy Spirit is the highest form of spirituality and philosophy. He leads and guides into all truth and shows you things to come. He reveals God's will for your life by using your God given talents in a creative way, so you can be a blessing to others. That's what makes the world a better place. You seem to miss the whole point on why Jesus came and what He taught. Man made tradition made the Word of God to no effect. That's the problem of organized religion!
Ramohog 1 year ago
Hegel and Marx where Hermetic order luciferians. Professing themselves to be wise they became fools. Deceivers being deceived themselves, misleading people through philosophy and vain deceit, causing people to exchange the truth for a lie to their own destrcution!
Ramohog 1 year ago
@Ramohog Dude what the hell are you talking about lol? Misleading people? With Marx's Communism theory on the side (which has flaws), he was, along with Max Weber and Durkheim, a father of Sociology/modern Social Sciences.
They've had a huge impact on Western Civilization. Do you want us to go back and live in the Dark Ages or during the Crusades?
andyx1205 1 year ago
@andyx1205 Dark ages came through the conjured up gnostic deception of the Catholic church, exposed by the Bible as the whore riding the beast of ancient Babylonian mysticism. They might have had a huge impact on western civilazation, but in the wrong way. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, because they have exchanged the truth for a lie. The Holy Spirit is the answer to all problems, as he leads and guides into all truth!
Ramohog 1 year ago
@Ramohog Actually religion had a large role to play in the Dark Ages, where progression of philosophy and science was very small. It was a stalemate in the progression of humanity. Just admit it, you'd rather live in the Dark Ages, where you could be killed for professing the wrong version of Christianity or what-not.
People like you make Christians look bad, no offense to you.
andyx1205 1 year ago
@Ramohog Yes, this is probably accurate. Certainly Hegel was a cabalist, and it shines through, if you'll pardon the expression, all of his work. The story of Dr. Faustus, rather than that of Percival, though, is the blueprint of the mental/spiritual path endorsed by Hegel. Illuminism in itself isn't really good or evil, just dangerous to handle. It's virtually impossible for many elite children to learn via hard knocks, so they remain infantile. These types crave the flexibility of the occult.
FinisReflectatOpus 4 days ago
hegal's and marx's view of the single payer option?
Rico8458 1 year ago
Schopenhauer thought Hegel was a charlatan. Do we know what Hegel thought of Schopenhauer?
archdeaconj 1 year ago
Big brother knows best right!! Philosopher's have a problem re-constructing the meanings of words or using them differently than the rest of society. In other words, misusing them. Epicurus did so with "pleasure"; so does Hegel, and Sartre do so w/ "freedom." Maybe people would be more free, not if they were told what to do by the man, but if they had better access to education (critical thinking).
zappa3837 2 years ago
Big Brother Knows Best, right!!!!
zappa3837 2 years ago
The garden of Eden, unity, abundance, one with god.
Enter trauma, the ego, and the fall
Of man into individual conscious, then the long crawl through history back to the cosmic mind and oneness with God, something like that?
septrenarion 2 years ago
@septrenarion
They're not being very clear, but I think Hegel's view is that everything (the individual mind, society, ethics.... EVERYTHING) works like this:
A) Start with a THESIS: (maybe heaven)
B) ANTITHESIS originates from contardictions within the Thesis (Man's sinful nature)
C) SYNTHESIS: Thesis and antithesis fight it out (the Fall) and reconcile into a new THESIS ("the long crawl through history)
Wash-Rinse-Repeat
I don't really buy it, but I think thats the gist of it
Diosibundo 2 years ago
@septrenarion Sure, or try this one:
THESIS: Socrates discovered that the oligarchs had put one over on everyone and had little difficulty in proving it to all comers, especially the children of the oligarchs.
ANTITHESIS: The society became infected with the dread virus of freedom and all hell started to break loose.
SYNTHESIS: Ever since then they've been trying to put the genie back in the bottle by vilifying the Socratic method and demonizing the Platonic (aka pro-human) point of view. Lol.
FinisReflectatOpus 4 days ago
Hegel's notion of rationality and freedom is quite absurd once one thinks about it for even a minute. Hegel would say that my desire to buy a Porsche, for example, is irrational. Well, if I know that girls likes guys with Porsche's and I like girls, then my desire to buy that car is entirely rational; unless of course Hegel believes that desiring girls is somehow irrational. Our reasons are determined and considered ex ante(in economics). This is consistent with the traditional notion of freedom
Questfortruth86 2 years ago
Hegel's philosophy is also strikingly similiar to Taoism: the unity of man and the heavens (the totatlity is Tao), not going against the course of nature or Tao etc.
jchien 2 years ago 5
@jchien Um, the opposite. Hegel is absolutely firmly committed to the subversion of nature at any cost. Subverted to what or whom? Why the Superman of course, what else. But don't get any ideas. There can be only a few of those, and the rest must eat cake.
FinisReflectatOpus 4 days ago
Hegel and Shaggy have one thing in common--they're both claim the title of Mister Bombastic.
hueypham04 2 years ago 6
lulz
alucardzer0 2 years ago
hah this is clearer than my textbook
areyougettingenough 3 years ago 34
@areyougettingenough Yes! I thought the same.
tylthomas 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this, Singer is always enjoyable.
dan46and2 3 years ago 17
One of the weak points of past socialist democracies was the state's authoritarian method of seeing basic needs as being superior to personal tastes although there was a concept of socialist competition but things like women's nylon stockings or top model cars where somewhat absent from such societies. However, the lassiez-faire concept of a consumer society is also misleading and manipulative.
Mayer200 3 years ago
@Mayer200 Yes, but it is also misleading and manipulative precisely (and only) because it employs the technology of Hegel (the dialectic of a manufactured reality). The advertisers use it all the time. THESIS (problem): You have zits or whatever and zitz suck. ANTITHESIS (reaction): "Oh no, I suck because I have zits!!!" SOLUTION: You must buy our product. Same old, same old. But do understand that Hegel, beneath all the obfuscation, promotes a 100% lassiez-faire superclass and a slave class.
FinisReflectatOpus 4 days ago
I love how he questions hegel's ideas and what might be seen as his "reasons".
philosoisgrt 3 years ago
Hegel is the Coca-Cola of 'Philosophy' and western thought.
Lion117 3 years ago 3
What are you implying with this?
That he's popular and tastes good? unnecessarily so? or that he's popular but corrupt?
ThisIsalexG 2 years ago
that he's popular, and can taste good. if you have a certain idea in your head and feeling while reading him. i haven't myself, yet. =]
Lion117 2 years ago
who is the dr. pepper?
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
The great movement of Geist through history moving from a state of incompleteness to perfection sounds so much like Hindu Cosmology- God or reason or being or the total universe (brahma) intentionally loses him/itself in the fuckedupedness of the world that gets increasingly worse because it's a great thrill. we become and are expressions of god (incarnations if that's how you want to say it) or society and production (for Marx) and become god (communist) once more some time.
mikezephyr 3 years ago 6
Given the enormity of Hegel's ideas, this portion of the talk is very disappointing.
mc0558 3 years ago
Thank you - this is so clear. :)
kesmit3 3 years ago
Everything, even 'reason'/'rationality', in moderation or in 'reason' itself . . . wow, they actually tried to re-work London?
theinternetscholar 3 years ago