"Years ago a child was born in an obscure village to poor parents residing in a dwelling they did not own but one that was made available to them through the kindness of others. The child grew to be an extraordinary individual and though he died before his 40th birthday, he transformed the society and world in which he lived.
“Dec. 23 will mark the 207th anniversary of the birth of Joseph Smith Jr., the prophet of the Restoration.”
Christmas message from the Deseret News (Mormon Church)
MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT LEAD INTO THE DECEPTION OF THIS PROVEN FALSE RELIGION!
I read this book and highly recommend it for everyone who is looking in to this blasphemous religion that can take your soul to hell. The author grew up in the Mormon Church and it is a completely FALSE RELIGION!
Arm yourselves! Read the book: “CAN MITT ROMNEY SERVE TWO MASTERS? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America”
1) REAGAN MADE SOVIET UNION DISAPERED AND OPENED EYES TO RUSSIA NOW THEY ARE BECOMING CAPITALISTIC COUNTRY
2) BUSH WAS DRUNK MADE TWIN TOWERS COLLAPSED, KILLED 3000 AMERICAN PEOPLE AND MADE THE WHOLE COUNTRY TO HAVE POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, NOW EVERYBODY IS
PARANOID THANKS TO REPUBLICANS
3) SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON FUCKING LEWINSKY DRESS INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON EUROPEAN UNION CREATED EUROS
OLD FART RON PAUL WILL SELL USA TO CHINA HE HAS NO RESPECT 4 THE GOVERNMENT!
It would be foolish to think or believe that a man or woman's "faith" or church "doctrine/dogma" will not or does not affect or influence their decisions regardless of what type of work they do, president, teacher, lawyer, doctor, etc. Of course a person's beliefs or lack of belief in GOD affects their lives...how could it not?
Of course Santa Claus doesn't PERSONALLY make all those home visits to children all over the world, duh! He has ELVES to do the work for him, but it's still HIM who's responsible for the joy in childrens' faces. The same goes for the Tooth Fairie and the Easter Bunny, and of course Jesus and his hit-and-run Dad.
You've got a lot of nerve to suggest it was all lies and manipulation. You do know that you will go to hell for your anti-God views, right? Don't say you weren't warned!
I am mormon i belive that it's true and i every right to express my opions and beliefs. That is why this country was founded. If you have a problem with my reliougs belifs than leave!!! Joseaph Smith was a Prophet and if someone dosent vote for him because he is mormon than you really are an idoit. The Salt Lake City olympics went very well and there were no problems with the church in anyway shape or form. So long story short for those that want to know what we really are about go to mormon.org
Did you know that Glenn Beck, as a Mormon, believes that men, gods, angels and devils are all the same species? Thus both Jesus and Lucifer are literally our elder brothers. As men are viewed as being the same species as God and Jesus they have the same potential to achieve godhood.
You may want to read that again…
Don’t believe it? Google: “Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, pp. 235-256, February 20, 1870”
For more information on Glenn Beck’s faith, search for “Brannon Howse and Glenn Beck”.
The Mormons hate Christians, the Mormons constantly steal BABIES away from young girls for little money and SELL the Babies as an Adoption scheme where fathers have no parental rights. Mormons are Occult and Evil-if you vote for Mit Romney-you are opposed to God.
@libertydogfight "...if you vote for Mit Romney-you are opposed to God." Of every single lie you told in your comment, the only one that truly offends me is that. Christ is our Savior because his plan allowed each of Heavenly Father's children to choose. If you do not vote for Mitt Romney purely because he is LDS, that is your choice. However, that is the choice that Christ died to allow you to make. I beleive in Christ. I have read the Bible. I am a Christian. And I AM a Mormon.
A small replica of gold plates can cure anything from cancer to bankruptcy. You're going to see restoration, you're gon-a see miracles in your life. The price? It's free, absolutely free! " FREE' but that promise of Godly miracles comes with a earthly request. 750 of MY followers ARE turning over all worldly goods for the privilege of joining. I invite you to do the same. Before you give me everything, I feel led to ask you to prove God with a $20 offering."
If people think Glen Beck is a good example of what a Mormon should be, we are all in trouble. Glen Beck said that there are bad people in every religion. He is the bad person in the Mormon faith. He is hateful and just like Limbaugh, he treats people like dirt and somehow he thinks of himself as a good guy. I grew up Mormon and in Utah. I wouldn't trust Glen beck and I would never vote for Romney. He seems a little fake to me.
@jwdeming I know, right?? This is the way glenn used to be all the time!! Fox news changed him. I don't know what the hell happened, but he changed from funny and reasonable to depressing and batshit crazy.
beck is a pinhead to believe that being mormon means you vote for anything that is relevant, to others, that do not want to vote a mormon or NON-mormon in office for being a pinhead that does not vote to be a mormon that does, or does NOT want to be elected for, or by, what a mormon pinhead votes for or belives in what makes a pinhead vote for a mormon, OR, as in this case, does not run for office for glenns belives that pin a head into a president, elected by a non mormon, or mormon, who does!
We are not a free people.. You clearly have not read the patriot act .. how its been applied to police and sheriff cases .. you have not looked at the cyber bill... You must not fly either.. Its only gong to get worse as the next stock market completely falls on its ass .. Its inevitable .. We are thousand trillion in debt and we are supposed to pay it back thru derivatives. The fed keeps printing money as the dollar declines ...END THE FED RESERVE YOU FUCKTWITS
@2020starman HUH? r u stupid or something? if your going to post out here... bring your argument n quit beatin around the bush... bring your ignorant wanna be, wanna be smart butt n tell it...
@TheNihipali5 We are not a free people.. You clearly have not read the patriot act .. how its been applied to police and sheriff cases .. you have not looked at the cyber bill... You must not fly either.. Its only gong to get worse as the next stock market completely falls on its ass .. Its inevitable .. We are thousand trillion in debt and we are supposed to pay it back thru derivatives. The fed keeps printing money as the dollar declines ...
@TheNihipali5 Don't get up in my grill you loon .. I said Mormon money built Las Vegas as we know it today ... if you read you would know that jackass ... Do I need to shoot you down like the last child?
Anyone who would vote for, or against, any qualified presidential candidate simply because of their religion is not only a bigot, but also Un-American...and a "pinhead".
@Democrats4MittRomney AMEN! Right on man.. right on.. vote for the BEST person available runnig for president... I'm not sure Obama got into office this way though
@hardkoregamer999 and I would believe you because you have insights into all the truth of every public leader and knowledge and wisdom of the ages? I have already done my research and I know he is the best candidate. Mitt Romney 2012!
@Democrats4MittRomney hes a lobbyist hes not for the american people hes for the big monoply corperations like pharma did you know hes not for medicinal marijuana he thinks pills filled with opium will take away the pain away when infact those pills are addicting and can kill your liver if you think hes the best candidate dont you think he should care about the sick and the weak.
@hardkoregamer999 sounds like you are nit-picking. He is the best candidate for president. By the way marijuana is also addicting and is far more dangerous than cigarettes relating to lung cancer. You can argue it both ways but medicinal marijuana is hardly the biggest issues facing America. He is absolutely for the American people this includes everyone especially those needing jobs and the economy.
@Democrats4MittRomney marijuana is addicting? and far dangerous than cigarettes where did you get that assumption are you joking here or are you just pulling all this information out of your ass? im thinking the ass ok heres the thing marijuana is a non addictive substance which means you cant get hooked on it and you can not get any withdrawal symptoms like alchohol wich is legal and ciggerettes wich is also legal and besides nobody has ever overdose or died from marijauna.
@Democrats4MittRomney oh and medicinal marijuana isnt the biggest issue for many sick americans who have aids and cancer and many other illness what about them? they dont count? you make me sick do you even have soul? anyways you can put it this way romney is going to be just like any other puppet politician. he doesnt give a shit about you or anyone els but his corrupt friends do you even care about your civil liberties your rights are being trampled on you dont care? man some voter you are.
@hardkoregamer999 I have lost my father to cancer and my mother is a cancer survivor, and I have lost cousins and my siblings as well and I know marijuana is one random issue just because you want to legalize pot and this country has far greater needs than your choosing to pull one issue out of a hat. If you really loved our country and all those American citizens who are in hospitals vote for a man who will actually help with repealing Obamacare.
@Democrats4MittRomney -- As late as 2005 & 2006, Romney made jokes like this? "I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman … and a woman … and a woman," Romney quipped at the 2005 St. Patrick's Day breakfast in Boston. He made the same joke on Don Imus' 2006 St. Patrick's Day show. Romney's family tree has lots of polygamy. and his father was born in Mexico. He's currently trying to convince the Tea Party he's a good Christian who will reduce the debt.
@Democrats4MittRomney It's not until they force their own beliefs on other people and their principles that I won't vote for them. I could never vote for someone who puts their faith over logic.
@Democrats4MittRomney -- As late as 2005 & 2006, Romney made jokes like this? "I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman … and a woman … and a woman," Romney quipped at the 2005 St. Patrick's Day breakfast in Boston. He made the same joke on Don Imus' 2006 St. Patrick's Day show. Romney's family tree has lots of polygamy. and his father was born in Mexico. He's currently trying to convince the Tea Party he's a good Christian who will reduce the debt.
@Democrats4MittRomney -- ROMNEY'S 2012 PLAN CUTS MEDICARE--Ron Paul’s plan cuts $1 trillion the first year & balances the budget in 3 years. The plan cuts spending by ending the costly foreign wars, and cuts foreign welfare, corporate welfare, and overgrown federal bureaucracy. These cuts are made so that those who are dependent on domestic spending programs such as Medicare aren’t endangered through a sudden change in benefits. Romney’s plan cuts Medicare, on which many elderly Americans rely.
"I have many friends that are LDS and the values that I have as a Christian are exactly the values that they are living in their lives...Presbyterians, Methodists, Catholics and LDS it's like there's more that they agree on and so many things that would unite them and it seems like we are looking for disctinctions to tear each other apart." -Mike Hannity
Mormons? Glen Beck is smart in the Mormon category. Not that smart compared to average people, but in the Mormon field, yes. Smart as an average Mormon.
@drwalepen15 Spain every year create more litterature then the middle eastern has done together over 1000 years. Does that make Islam a retarded religion?
@customanalogue There are no gods. The only solutions to mankind's problems are the solutions mankind comes up with. Looking after the weak is socialism because the weak should look after themselves. You want a fair world? Stop taking from the people with money and giving it to those without; that's theft.
> the only solutions to mankind's problems are the solutions mankind comes up with.
THEY ARE ***NOT*** WORKING !!!
God says: "How long will YOU... keep loving inexperience... how long will YOU stupid ones keep hating knowledge... Because I have called out but YOU keep refusing, I have stretched out my hand but there is no one paying attention... I also, for my part, shall laugh at YOUR own disaster, I shall mock when what YOU dread comes, [when] YOUR own disaster gets here."
I bet you didn't know THAT was in the Bible, but more:
"At that time they will keep calling me, but I shall not answer; they will keep looking for me, but they will not find me, for the reason that they hated knowledge, and the fear of Yahweh they did not choose. They did not consent to my counsel; they disrespected all my reproof. So they will eat from the fruitage of their way, and they will be glutted with their own counsels."
"For the renegading of the inexperienced ones is what will kill them, and the easygoingness of the stupid is what will destroy them. As for the one listening to me, he will reside in security and be undisturbed from dread of calamity."
> Stop taking from the people with money and giving it to those without; that's theft.
Remember this:
POOR PEOPLE DO ***NOT*** HAVE LOBBYISTS !!!
America is CORRUPT. Your politician need 10 million in the kitty to get elected or re-elected. They have to TAKE MONEY. There are FOUR lobbyists for every congressman, ALL MAKE MORE MONEY AND GIVE OUT MORE MONEY.
Where is the voice of the poor and downtrodden? It has NOTHING to do with socialism, JUST LOVE FOR POWER AND PURE GREED!
But it is interesting that you throw your lot in wth your "Bible loving" politicians who denounce socialism. You have some strange bedfellows. Maybe they should read their Bible.
This one sounds like you:
"They scoff and speak about what is bad; About defrauding they speak in an elevated style."
You actually think it ius great idea.
"In his haughtiness the wicked one hotly pursues the afflicted one; They get caught by the ideas that they have thought up."
"For the wicked has praised himself over the selfish longing of his soul, And the one making UNDUE PROFIT has blessed himself; He has disrespected Yahweh."
"The people of the land themselves have carried on a scheme of defrauding and have done a tearing away in robbery, and the afflicted one and the poor one they have maltreated..they have defrauded without justice."
You have a GREEDY medical system THAT KILLS PEOPLE !!! They put MONEY FIRST!
You got money, you get health care, you have money, you DESERVE health care.
HOW can you support such a system? How is the life of a struggler less important than the one who has amassed wealth.
Besides, the rich are not more clever or deserving, they get rich because, not of what they know, but WHO they know. It is all about "PLAYING THE GAME" to quote a Patent Attorney friend of mine. He knows MANY whose ideas were STOLEN, and because they had no rich friends, could do NOTHING!
@customanalogue you mis understand the point here. The point is that everyone can AFFORD healthcare ALREADY we just need to deregulate it. The only reason it is so expensive is because of the existing government regulations. So adding MORE regulations will make it more expensive. Now if the expense goes up that means that regardless of who is paying America as a whole will be able to afford LESS of it.
America doesn't have any POOR? Tell that to the POOR!
As for quoting the Bible, the point you made totally eludes me. What did Jesus mean:
"You will ALWAYS have the POOR."
Except in America? Eureka! Paradise. I THINK NOT !!!! LOL
Glenn Beck is YOUR Messiah! Or the voices that control him. LOL
You don't even know, it, you are funny, in a tragic and Shakespearean way. You have more than ONE is 150 in your JAILS - more than TWO MILLION. At least the will be guaranteed a feed.
A man has a heart attack. His health insurance pays. Then in a little while has another, his insurance tells him it would not be good if he had a third.
He has a third.
He looses his health cover, to get health care he has to sell his house. His bad health continues. He and his wife becomes so destitute they have to move into the house of his daughter, who has kids and a husband to look after.
NOW IT WILL RUIN HIS DAUGHTER.
This story is TRUE - want the NAME if this family?
@customanalogue you have never read a book on austrian economics have you? Let me spell it out for you. selfishness taken to the point where you care more about yourself than others is the root of most sin. Greed is one type of selfishness. But, capitalism is not about greed. Its about how to distribute the goods people need. when its based on a system where they go after what they want its more effective than when its by arbitrary dictation. Watch this video please /watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A
Endless consumerism is the answer, spend till the grave?
If THAT is what you want, then NOT all of us have to opt in, do we?
YES, YOU ***MUST***!
The problem is that capitalism is a CULT. It holds people captive. IF you do not succeed in the world where Capitalism rules, if you don't want to be a part of it, you WILL become its victim.
Some love Jesus (so they say) and others love Capitalism.
Capitalism is also the measure of a person's success.
There is NO CHOICE!
The worth of a person is how they PERFORM in the world of Capitalism.
If you FAIL, then you end up with no health insurance cover, you may need more than one job to survive, you pay $300 for anti-biotics course for your child who has an infection. What if you don't have that in your account or your credit card is maxed out? Your child develops pneumonia and DIES.
Your questions betray that you have swallowed the Capitalism DOGMA hollus bollus!
> have you ever had a job?
I happen to run a BUSINESS, I am SELF-employed, NEVER claimed un-employment benefits.
> or do you just watch oprah all day?
NEVER watched Oprah. I remember seeing clips of Tom Cruise jumping up and down and some clips when she came down here to Australia and did some shows, which I did not bother watching.
Don't let the Glenn Becks, the talk back hosts and the cashed up media etc, tell you WHAT to think.
They will often advice you to do things that are against your own interests using two dimensional cardboard cut-out arguments to make you do as they want. They want you to think the way THEY want you to think, BUT DON'T THINK FOR YOURSELF!
Problems are NOT 2D. Think 3D!
OTOH, they avoid describing the complex because it requires you to chew.
"Naturally the common people don't want war... But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or fascist dictatorship or a parliament or communist dictatorship... all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism... [for] exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Hermann Goering
@customanalogue .......that has nothing to do with capitalism whatsoever. In fact, you are making my case for me. We need democracy, a democracy that is even more decentralized than the current american one because when you give people power they abuse it. the only economic system that works without a government or indeed could exist is free market capitalism.
Tell the Chinese they need democracy for capitalism to work.
They will tell you they are doing very well WITHOUT democracy.
Where did this crazy idea of marrying democracy and capitalism together? Capitalism doesn't need democracy. Have you read the Citibank Plutocracy Memo? They HATE & FEAR democracy.
Capitalism is about CONSUMING TILL YOU DROP. It is about SELLING!
Will THIS save the world from itself? No, something MORE than capitalism is needed.
And before you get the wrong idea. I am not rich, have no desire to be.
But I do indeed have friends who ARE rich because I am sought out by them as an Artisan. So, like in the Bible, there is nothing wrong about being rich. I am no Marxist, I am not a Leftist, indeed my moral compass is all Right.
It is about recognising the HUMAN DIGNITY that even God recognises, and that ALL are deserving of the most basic consideration.
In America you paint the poor as 2nd class citizens.
@customanalogue lol. in america there ARE NO POOR. even our unemployed have a better standard of living than the CEOs of banks in Brazil. How do I know? because I KNOW some rich brazilians and Ive visited their homes in brazil. When they come here their jaws DROP. There is no such thing as the poor here. There are unemployed, there are people on welfare. But those people are not denegrated by the rich. They are denegrated by the Left, by Jessie Jackson, by their own leaders.
You can say Mormons are good people but when you get to the core of the religion they would be different today because it's a man centered religion and restricted by the gov that's why they stoped doing polygamy
I don't believe in the Bible for the same reason I don't believe in Mother Goose, said Clarence Darrow about the religion. Both are fairy tales and mature people have no business believing in their literal truth - that is for retarded children.
No one want families "dying of thirst in the desert" no matter what the situation. However, each person has the agency to run in the desert...but when they choose to do that....they also choose the consequence (possibility of dying of thirst etc)...ultimately each person is responsible for their own choices.
At the same time, we can have compassion with regards to WHY they are running into the desert--which is to escape their own govt. Our govt has a responsibility to address THIS dilemma.
@tfwaters In fairness - the Mormon Bishop and the four young missionaries did not say they "wanted" the 19 men, woman and children to die of thirst in the desert while illegally crossing in the Arizona summer - they ONLY SAID "THEY HAD IT COMING TO THEM- THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED."
I sure the Mormons are not total beasts - they would have preferred no deaths - but if they were going to cross- they were 'asking' for death - they decided to break American laws.
@PineMartinAmerican Applying Common sense: They were saying....for every cause there is an affect....nothing more nothing less. If you don't want to get burned----don't put your hand on a hot stove.
Those who refuse to use common sense expose themselves to the consequences. Those who think they can "beat this system" are WILLING to take the risk knowing the possible outcome. These men were saying if you are willing to take the risk then you should expect the obvious consequence.
@tfwaters Actually, many of these people where tricked into the desert by their guides and abandoned. The idea of everything being a so-called "moral choice" is not true. People are tricked all the time -- You are tricked by your mother and father into believing in Mormon fairy tales. Many people in my generation were tricked into service in Vietnam while being told they were 'defending freedom' or because they were told they would get training and work and not double crossed.
@PineMartinAmerican Early Church history exposed the corruption in the Govt--we have always known that the Govt can't be trusted--so I can understand your lack of trust in "the system."
However, a choice is a choice no matter if a person makes that choice in ignorance or not. No matter if a person is beguiled or not. The person will still receive the same consequence even though they didn't understand fully what that choice would cause. But Truth always empowers an individual's choice.
Also, you are wrong - I met those two Mormon Missionaries and a Mormon Bishop who believed the illegal immigrants should die in the desert. As to their 'free will' - they were probably tricked by a 'coyote' guide who abandoned them. The coyote guide - like the Mormons - also lacked all compassion and human kindness.
@PineMartinAmerican Narrow mindedness is not a virtue but a stumbling block. Your personal stumbling-block prevents you from seeing, let alone, pondering the facts as they are. You are blinded by preconceived notions that have no basis. Whenever a person stereo-types a group of people into= one person with one personality =their opinions will always land them out in left field.
I met Mormons who thought it was good that some families died of thirst in the desert while crossing over from Mexico - "They deserved to die because they where breaking the law." Funny - a drunken zoo keeper becomes a Mormon...
@PineMartinAmerican If the US fails to address the REAL REASON why the people are trying to escape from Mexico---then we as the leaders of the free world are not compassionate to "those dying in the desert" or to the American people whom we have pledged our allegiance to serve and protect.
The fact remains--Mexican drug cartels and extreme Muslim terrorists are posing as those who "just want a better life." These low-life-scum are not trying to gain freedom but are trying to ENSLAVE US!
The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Amos 8:11¶Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
@tfwaters Dude. dont even try. You will get nowhere with these people. Its like talking to a wall. They dont see with facts or evidence, they only see what they want to see. Its like it says in Matt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [Christ's return] shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED "GOD", or that is worshipped; so that HE AS God SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, shewing himself that he IS God.
29 For I know this, that AFTER MY DEPARTING shall grievous wolves enter in among you, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, SEETH THE WOLF COMING, and LEAVETH the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and SCATTERETH the sheep.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7aFor the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
@awolLDSasap One spiritually "puts on incorruption" through the power of the Atonement. Christ's righteousness COVERS our unrighteous act as we turn to Him, repent, and are forgiven. Through this healing process (coupled by our faith) the guilt is washed away and Christ helps us triumph over that sin. This triumph is demonstrated by--being forgiven and God remembering the sin no more; by us never repeating the sin; and by loosing the temptation (which is extended to us in this life or the next).
In the Resurrection we will be restored to our perfect frame physically and we will be restored spiritually to the deeds done in mortality. We are not "too big to fail" but as long as we are living we have the opportunity to right our wrongs through the power of the Atonement. Since we all are not perfect beings, we are not perfect, but we have been given the opportunity to repent, change our ways, and be forgiven as we are in mortality. God knows our hearts and he will forgive whom he will.
You stated, "Most of the witnesses were related to the Smith family." Wrong once again. The three witnesses: Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, Martin Harris none were related to the Smiths. The additional eight witnesses who also saw the plates included: Christian Whitmer, Jacob Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Jr., John Whitmer, Hiram Page, Joseph Smith, Sr., Hyrum Smith, and Samuel H. Smith. Out of 11 total--- only 3 were related to Joseph. These 3 were men of high moral standing.
Which brings me to my last point--that the Atonement of Jesus Christ was wrought to satisfy the demands of JUSTICE and extend to us (both the living and dead) the OPPORTUNITY of MERCY for all who desire it. This mercy being extended not because of our own goodness or works (lest we boast) but because of God's goodness/grace and HIS WORK as we choose him. It is HIS WORK and HIS GLORY...to bring to pass the Immortality (grace-free gift) and Eternal Life (reward for faithfulness) for ALL men.
Those who were "disobedient" during Noah's day had the gospel preached to them in mortality, however, according to Moses, "they loved Satan more than God" and they refused to repent to Noah's call.
Think about the majority of the earth's existence has never heard of Jesus Christ nor the doctrine of baptism...what about them? Many could have been true to their beliefs...should they also spend eternity in spirit prison because they weren't given the opportunity to be taught the gospel?
Paul taught that, "For this end Christ died, and rose, and revived that he might be Lord both of the dead and the living." Peter giving more information by saying, "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead." Specifically directing to the disobedient who died in the flood waters--not being "saved" like Noah's family who were in the ark. Noah's family were saved both physically & spiritually, whereas those who rejected the gospel were lost (assigned to spirit prison).
According to the previous verses we can understand that the Lord's ministry here on earth was to teach both the living (mortals) and the dead (spirits in prison). While Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days he caused the gospel to be preached to those in spirit prison. Peter stated that the dead will be judged according to what they did in mortality but that they would be allowed to be taught the gospel in the Spirit World and live "according to God in the spirit." Baptism is essential for both.
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
We know from Paul's admonition to the Corinthian Saints that (1) baptisms for the dead was being practiced during his day (2) he used this practice to testify of the reality of the resurrected Lord (3) he in no way discredits the practice but uses it to verify another true doctrine that all will have the opportunity to be resurrected.
The practice of baptizing the dead was forbidden by the Catholic Church in the 4th century and attributed it to "an aberrant practice of heretical groups."
Just like at "death" (when our mortal body and spirit are separated) our mortal bodies will return back to dust (raw element) from which it was created and the spirit will "return back to God" (return back to spirit-form). So too, when other planets (physical bodies) are (separated from their temporal aspect) it will return back to the raw ETERNAL ELEMENT that it was created therefrom. This earth also has a spirit (which is intelligence) and it goes back to its raw form.
@awolLDSasap You stated, "Mormons don't believe there is an eternal God. They believe in the FORCE.." Now you are just getting plain goofy. Comments like this... don't even deserve a response.
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
By the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, until thou shalt return unto the ground—for thou shalt surely die—for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou wast, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
@tfwaters Thats right. The life given to us by God will return to Him. This doesn't mean you had intelligence before you were given life. Job 9:10 Which doeth great things PAST FINDING OUT, yea, and wonders without number. You think Joseph Smith had all of the answers? He didn't. He made up things as time passed.
@awolLDSasap You stated, "You think Joseph Smith had all the answers?" No I don't. Only God has all the answers. But prophets have more answers than "your normal Joe." (no pun intended) The understandings of lost doctrines recorded by prophets and apostles have been restored through the teachings of a prophet.
@tfwaters Nothing was lost. The Holy Spirit and the church of Jesus Christ never left the earth. Joseph changed the nature of God and changed the gospel to glorify men instead of God.
@awolLDSasap Both OT prophets and NT Apostles do not agree with you. Both prophesied that before Christ would return the 2nd Time there would be a spiritual "falling away" first also known as a "famine of hearing the Words of God" (Apostasy). Most people are either for or against the words of the prophets and apostles. Looks like you have to make a choice between their doctrine and your own. Do you believe the scriptures or not? Are you anxiously awaiting Christ's return or not?
@tfwaters A falling away does not mean Christs church left the earth and needed to be restored. Which Christ are you waiting for? An elder spirit brother whose life can be mimicked as mortal worthiness? Which apostles? The chosen, or new apostles that teach another gospel? You repeat the words of the New Testament and I know that in Mormonism they have completely different meaning than that of the Bible.
@awolLDSasap Many have come after Jesus changing his identity, denying the accuracy of Gods Word, claiming mans authority is necessary to reach God. Prophets, apostles, popes and saints create a barrier between the Lord and men. False gospels deny access to the Savior. As a Mormon, you have been taught never to pray to Jesus, only reverence his name. Jesus did not fail. He is the door to eternal life. He said, if you attempt to climb up another way, you are a theif and a robber.
21 That they (apostles) all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they (apostles) may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
@tfwaters John isn't saying that men are of the same nature or that men become Gods. "Hast sent me" means "In Christ" men are perfected and able to live in the presense of God. Mortals and angels were created by God. They do not become Gods. That is blasphemy.
But this does not mean that God does not exist nor does it mean that God is "uncreated", nor does it mean that God is totally invisible....it means that he can be seen only by Spiritual eyes that are capable of seeing spiritual things and beings (which are created from eternal matter).
@awolLDSasap Biblically.... Jehovah (who was a pre-mortal spirit) took upon himself flesh and "dwelt among us" and is known by the name of Jesus Christ. Jehovah (Jesus) became a mortal---having a tangible physical body and HE continues to live with a tangible physical body that is resurrected (now immortal-cannot die). The Holy Ghost has always been a spirit.
@tfwaters Jesus was God before mortality. Phl 2:6 Who, being in the FORM OF God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Num 23:19 God [is] not a man Job 33:12 God greater than man. Eze 28:2 art man, not God. Act 17:29 God is not man. Job 9:32 not a man.
The worlds were formed out of eternal matter. After the worlds were formed they could be seen by the natural eye--before they were formed they were invisible to the natural eye.
However, eternal matter CAN BE SEEN by the spiritual eye. Spiritual eyes can see God---natural eyes cannot behold him (therefore God remains invisible to them).
@awolLDSasap The "gold plates" were made out of metal....hence they can be seen by mortal men with the natural eye. Your comments are getting more and more desperate for debatable material.
@tfwaters In the end, witnesses left the church, were excommunicated and never rebaptized. When interviewed, the witnesses said they saw the gold plates with spiritual eyes. Fact....Most of the witnesses were related to the Smith family.
@awolLDSasap How is this a response to what was previously stated? Oh I understand, if you don't have a response---resort to change the subject and attack character. The 3 witnesses wilted from the heat of the fire, however, they never recanted what they had seen and heard. Once again, the gold places were metal and could be seen and handled...it was NOT a book that only "spiritual eyes" could behold. This book was crafted for mortals to hold and read like another book (including the Bible).
@tfwaters The witnesses were used. They sought to regain respect in the church and never received any. Their testimonies were used by the church and the witnesses were treated like trash.
One of Jehovah's names is spelled with the first and last characters of the alphabet...in Greek Alpha and Omega...the Beginning and the End.
Just because Jehovah is the Beginning and the End does not mean that he is "uncreated." Everything that is Eternal is "created" before it is formed/organized (therefore "no beginning and no end"). No such thing as "uncreated" because there is no such thing as "immaterial matter." Matter can be unorganized but it cannot be in the form of "uncreated."
@tfwaters You have been deceived by Josephs Dawin like evolution progression of Gods. Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was NOT ANYTHING MADE that was made. Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds WERE FRAMED by THE WORD of God, so that THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN were NOT MADE of THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR. The Word created Ex nihilo = from, or out of nothing. 1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, // and these three are ONE.
@awolLDSasap "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed [ORGANIZED/FORMED] by the word of God, so that things which are seen (physically) were not made of things which do appear (eternal matter can't be seen by the physical eye)."
@tfwaters Josephs material matter doctrine is heretical. Joseph has lowered the power and glory of God to raise men up. Haven't you heard, the intelligence of man is foolishness to God?
@awolLDSasap When I "create" something I am taking materials (physical matter--that I CAN SEE) combining and re-organizing them into another form. Take a cake for instance---I use flour, sugar, baking powder, eggs, oil, milk, and vanilla. I didn't create the materials (physical matter) I just combined them according to the recipe.
The WORD (Jehovah) took Eternal Matter that was before created (he could SEE IT) and He framed (formed) the world. Elohim provided these elements beforehand. All physical things were framed by Jehovah. But Elohim created them spiritually before they were physically formed. Jehovah framed our physical bodies but Elohim begot us as spirit sons and daughters. Jehovah became the ONLY BEGOTTEN in the Flesh by Elohim all others are begotten through spirit only.
@awolLDSasap Eternal element and good spirits can only be seen by other spirits and/or those who are "spiritually minded" (spiritual gift). The "carnally minded" cannot see eternal element. Spirits cannot be seen by the natural eye----physical eyes do not behold----but it is the spirit within the body that can behold. Many people have seen spirits but they were not detecting them by their natural eyes. All this will be obvious to those who have beheld.
@tfwaters The human mind is capable of seeing things that do not exist. Witnesses of the gold plates verifies this. Seeking angels and spirits of the dead carries a warning from God. Joseph came up with alot of rediculous ideas. Asking a spirit to shake your hand is right up there with 6 foot quakers on the moon.
@awolLDSasap Eternal (spiritual) matter is the raw material that this physical earth was created from. This matter has always existed--but it is temporarily combined together to frame/form different planets. Thus the eternal (which cannot be seen by the natural eye) can temporarily "appear" (to the natural eye) when it is formed into a physical entity. When these elements are deconstructed, they will "disappear" (from the natural eye), however those elements go back to their previous form.
@tfwaters I know all about those wild theories. Can't you see Josephs theories lower the power of God like putting him in a box? Problem is, this theoretical spiritualism came from Satan to deceive men. There is no invisible spirit for every rock. God creates ex nihilo, out of nothing and I gave you a verse proving this. From Gen. to John His breath brings life. From His Word universes appear.
@awolLDSasap You stated, "Can't you see Joseph's theories lower the power of God like putting him in a box?" Actually that is what you are doing---because you don't believe God is capable of more than what your mind can conceive. To start from the foundation.....you don't even believe that God is BOTH Just and Merciful. You know that he is merciful but that it is at the expense of justice.
@awolLDSasap Darwin's Theory of Evolution is the notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers--all related. Wrong! God created all forms of life with seed within itself to recreate it self. A bird cannot produce a banana, a fish cannot produce a flower. God patterned man after himself after his own image and in his own likeness. Many believe that God, angels, and spirits are another species--they are not.
"Years ago a child was born in an obscure village to poor parents residing in a dwelling they did not own but one that was made available to them through the kindness of others. The child grew to be an extraordinary individual and though he died before his 40th birthday, he transformed the society and world in which he lived.
“Dec. 23 will mark the 207th anniversary of the birth of Joseph Smith Jr., the prophet of the Restoration.”
Christmas message from the Deseret News (Mormon Church)
Amhlair 2 weeks ago
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MORMONISM IS NOT A CHRISTIAN RELIGION! BE CAREFUL THAT YOU ARE NOT LEAD INTO THE DECEPTION OF THIS PROVEN FALSE RELIGION!
I read this book and highly recommend it for everyone who is looking in to this blasphemous religion that can take your soul to hell. The author grew up in the Mormon Church and it is a completely FALSE RELIGION!
Arm yourselves! Read the book: “CAN MITT ROMNEY SERVE TWO MASTERS? The Mormon Church Versus The Office Of The Presidency of the United States of America”
certainlytruthful 3 weeks ago
Mitt's nickname is Flipper! Yay, Flipper!!
ProsperoMagic 2 months ago
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GOP DESTROYED USA
1) REAGAN MADE SOVIET UNION DISAPERED AND OPENED EYES TO RUSSIA NOW THEY ARE BECOMING CAPITALISTIC COUNTRY
2) BUSH WAS DRUNK MADE TWIN TOWERS COLLAPSED, KILLED 3000 AMERICAN PEOPLE AND MADE THE WHOLE COUNTRY TO HAVE POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, NOW EVERYBODY IS
PARANOID THANKS TO REPUBLICANS
3) SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON FUCKING LEWINSKY DRESS INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON EUROPEAN UNION CREATED EUROS
OLD FART RON PAUL WILL SELL USA TO CHINA HE HAS NO RESPECT 4 THE GOVERNMENT!
democratsaresmart 3 months ago
It would be foolish to think or believe that a man or woman's "faith" or church "doctrine/dogma" will not or does not affect or influence their decisions regardless of what type of work they do, president, teacher, lawyer, doctor, etc. Of course a person's beliefs or lack of belief in GOD affects their lives...how could it not?
AWMINTERNATIONAL 3 months ago
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Want to know MITT ROMNEY?
Youtube this:
Presidential Candidates on TARP
Vote4RonPaulLiberty 3 months ago
It is all fine and dandy that judging a candidate faith is un-American until the guy might be a Muslim right !
EdugeBDroN 3 months ago
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Of course Santa Claus doesn't PERSONALLY make all those home visits to children all over the world, duh! He has ELVES to do the work for him, but it's still HIM who's responsible for the joy in childrens' faces. The same goes for the Tooth Fairie and the Easter Bunny, and of course Jesus and his hit-and-run Dad.
You've got a lot of nerve to suggest it was all lies and manipulation. You do know that you will go to hell for your anti-God views, right? Don't say you weren't warned!
zerogullibility 3 months ago
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What Mitt Romney also believes in:
Adam and Eve Lived in Missouri
God was a man before he became God
God lives near the star Kolob
There are multiple Gods, each have their very own Universe
If I obtain the highest level of Heaven I can become a god
God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are 3 different people
After Jesus was resurrected he came straight to the Americas
Dinosaur bones come from other planets
All mormons must wear super secret, oops I mean sacred underwear made by the LDS Church ONLY.
TrustVerify 4 months ago
moronism.
halflifeproductionz 4 months ago
I am mormon i belive that it's true and i every right to express my opions and beliefs. That is why this country was founded. If you have a problem with my reliougs belifs than leave!!! Joseaph Smith was a Prophet and if someone dosent vote for him because he is mormon than you really are an idoit. The Salt Lake City olympics went very well and there were no problems with the church in anyway shape or form. So long story short for those that want to know what we really are about go to mormon.org
startrekmaniac 4 months ago
@startrekmaniac Fuck you and your bullshit religion. FUCK MORMONS! FUCK YOUR CHURCH YOU BASTARD!
7drift0king2 3 months ago
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Did you know that Glenn Beck, as a Mormon, believes that men, gods, angels and devils are all the same species? Thus both Jesus and Lucifer are literally our elder brothers. As men are viewed as being the same species as God and Jesus they have the same potential to achieve godhood.
You may want to read that again…
Don’t believe it? Google: “Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, pp. 235-256, February 20, 1870”
For more information on Glenn Beck’s faith, search for “Brannon Howse and Glenn Beck”.
Maximus9364 5 months ago
The Mormons hate Christians, the Mormons constantly steal BABIES away from young girls for little money and SELL the Babies as an Adoption scheme where fathers have no parental rights. Mormons are Occult and Evil-if you vote for Mit Romney-you are opposed to God.
libertydogfight 5 months ago
@libertydogfight "...if you vote for Mit Romney-you are opposed to God." Of every single lie you told in your comment, the only one that truly offends me is that. Christ is our Savior because his plan allowed each of Heavenly Father's children to choose. If you do not vote for Mitt Romney purely because he is LDS, that is your choice. However, that is the choice that Christ died to allow you to make. I beleive in Christ. I have read the Bible. I am a Christian. And I AM a Mormon.
kharperci 5 months ago
I have a hard time voting for anyone who thinks Earth is less than 10,000 years old, regardless of their religion.
TampaRed 5 months ago
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A small replica of gold plates can cure anything from cancer to bankruptcy. You're going to see restoration, you're gon-a see miracles in your life. The price? It's free, absolutely free! " FREE' but that promise of Godly miracles comes with a earthly request. 750 of MY followers ARE turning over all worldly goods for the privilege of joining. I invite you to do the same. Before you give me everything, I feel led to ask you to prove God with a $20 offering."
onstageagain 6 months ago
If people think Glen Beck is a good example of what a Mormon should be, we are all in trouble. Glen Beck said that there are bad people in every religion. He is the bad person in the Mormon faith. He is hateful and just like Limbaugh, he treats people like dirt and somehow he thinks of himself as a good guy. I grew up Mormon and in Utah. I wouldn't trust Glen beck and I would never vote for Romney. He seems a little fake to me.
johnjesse100 6 months ago
@johnjesse100 Beck is a good example of how American news networks and the people who work on their shows are down the shitter.
TampaRed 5 months ago
Is it me or is this a way more restrained and reasonable version of Glenn Beck than we ever saw on Fox News?
jwdeming 6 months ago
@jwdeming I know, right?? This is the way glenn used to be all the time!! Fox news changed him. I don't know what the hell happened, but he changed from funny and reasonable to depressing and batshit crazy.
JRSnodgrassOfficial 6 months ago
@JRSnodgrassOfficial He believes Earth is less than 10,000 years old. He's always been batshit crazy.
TampaRed 5 months ago
yup....
goisermass 7 months ago
beck is a pinhead to believe that being mormon means you vote for anything that is relevant, to others, that do not want to vote a mormon or NON-mormon in office for being a pinhead that does not vote to be a mormon that does, or does NOT want to be elected for, or by, what a mormon pinhead votes for or belives in what makes a pinhead vote for a mormon, OR, as in this case, does not run for office for glenns belives that pin a head into a president, elected by a non mormon, or mormon, who does!
goisermass 7 months ago
beck you're a sknny neck pinhead
2020starman 7 months ago
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We are not a free people.. You clearly have not read the patriot act .. how its been applied to police and sheriff cases .. you have not looked at the cyber bill... You must not fly either.. Its only gong to get worse as the next stock market completely falls on its ass .. Its inevitable .. We are thousand trillion in debt and we are supposed to pay it back thru derivatives. The fed keeps printing money as the dollar declines ...END THE FED RESERVE YOU FUCKTWITS
2020starman 7 months ago
Thats ok Beck ....you're still a stupid bum that needs to pay rent
2020starman 7 months ago
glen is not Christian he is a mormon
erinnelson92 7 months ago
@erinnelson92 your an idiot! He's not a Christian because he's a Mormon? Get life loser... its called google stupid!
TheNihipali5 7 months ago
@TheNihipali5 Mormons are Christian you idiot!
youisa1 7 months ago
@youisa1 Amen.
Democrats4MittRomney 7 months ago
Any religion that backs Las Vegas behind close doors can kiss my ass . i don't trust the church nor the people
2020starman 8 months ago
@2020starman I'm not fully understanding your stupid statement of Las Vegas... know something before posting
TheNihipali5 7 months ago
@TheNihipali5Study Las Vegas and Mormons .. like if you know how ..lol
2020starman 7 months ago
@TheNihipali5 Good one to start with ignorant fool .....Las Vegas and the Mormons. [Archive] - Forums
2020starman 7 months ago
@2020starman HUH? r u stupid or something? if your going to post out here... bring your argument n quit beatin around the bush... bring your ignorant wanna be, wanna be smart butt n tell it...
TheNihipali5 7 months ago
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@TheNihipali5 We are not a free people.. You clearly have not read the patriot act .. how its been applied to police and sheriff cases .. you have not looked at the cyber bill... You must not fly either.. Its only gong to get worse as the next stock market completely falls on its ass .. Its inevitable .. We are thousand trillion in debt and we are supposed to pay it back thru derivatives. The fed keeps printing money as the dollar declines ...
2020starman 7 months ago
@TheNihipali5 Don't get up in my grill you loon .. I said Mormon money built Las Vegas as we know it today ... if you read you would know that jackass ... Do I need to shoot you down like the last child?
2020starman 7 months ago
Anyone who would vote for, or against, any qualified presidential candidate simply because of their religion is not only a bigot, but also Un-American...and a "pinhead".
Democrats4MittRomney 8 months ago 13
@Democrats4MittRomney AMEN! Right on man.. right on.. vote for the BEST person available runnig for president... I'm not sure Obama got into office this way though
TheNihipali5 7 months ago
@Democrats4MittRomney nope they wouldt vote against him not because of his faith but of his corruption.
hardkoregamer999 7 months ago
@hardkoregamer999 and I would believe you because you have insights into all the truth of every public leader and knowledge and wisdom of the ages? I have already done my research and I know he is the best candidate. Mitt Romney 2012!
Democrats4MittRomney 7 months ago
@Democrats4MittRomney hes a lobbyist hes not for the american people hes for the big monoply corperations like pharma did you know hes not for medicinal marijuana he thinks pills filled with opium will take away the pain away when infact those pills are addicting and can kill your liver if you think hes the best candidate dont you think he should care about the sick and the weak.
hardkoregamer999 7 months ago
@hardkoregamer999 sounds like you are nit-picking. He is the best candidate for president. By the way marijuana is also addicting and is far more dangerous than cigarettes relating to lung cancer. You can argue it both ways but medicinal marijuana is hardly the biggest issues facing America. He is absolutely for the American people this includes everyone especially those needing jobs and the economy.
Democrats4MittRomney 7 months ago
@Democrats4MittRomney marijuana is addicting? and far dangerous than cigarettes where did you get that assumption are you joking here or are you just pulling all this information out of your ass? im thinking the ass ok heres the thing marijuana is a non addictive substance which means you cant get hooked on it and you can not get any withdrawal symptoms like alchohol wich is legal and ciggerettes wich is also legal and besides nobody has ever overdose or died from marijauna.
hardkoregamer999 7 months ago
@Democrats4MittRomney oh and medicinal marijuana isnt the biggest issue for many sick americans who have aids and cancer and many other illness what about them? they dont count? you make me sick do you even have soul? anyways you can put it this way romney is going to be just like any other puppet politician. he doesnt give a shit about you or anyone els but his corrupt friends do you even care about your civil liberties your rights are being trampled on you dont care? man some voter you are.
hardkoregamer999 7 months ago
@hardkoregamer999 I have lost my father to cancer and my mother is a cancer survivor, and I have lost cousins and my siblings as well and I know marijuana is one random issue just because you want to legalize pot and this country has far greater needs than your choosing to pull one issue out of a hat. If you really loved our country and all those American citizens who are in hospitals vote for a man who will actually help with repealing Obamacare.
Democrats4MittRomney 7 months ago
@Democrats4MittRomney sure ill vote for somebody whos against obama care i dont even like him.
hardkoregamer999 7 months ago
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@Democrats4MittRomney -- As late as 2005 & 2006, Romney made jokes like this? "I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman … and a woman … and a woman," Romney quipped at the 2005 St. Patrick's Day breakfast in Boston. He made the same joke on Don Imus' 2006 St. Patrick's Day show. Romney's family tree has lots of polygamy. and his father was born in Mexico. He's currently trying to convince the Tea Party he's a good Christian who will reduce the debt.
vechorik 3 months ago in playlist Presidential Mitt Romney
@Democrats4MittRomney It's not until they force their own beliefs on other people and their principles that I won't vote for them. I could never vote for someone who puts their faith over logic.
gcastro44 4 months ago
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@Democrats4MittRomney -- As late as 2005 & 2006, Romney made jokes like this? "I believe marriage should be between a man and a woman … and a woman … and a woman," Romney quipped at the 2005 St. Patrick's Day breakfast in Boston. He made the same joke on Don Imus' 2006 St. Patrick's Day show. Romney's family tree has lots of polygamy. and his father was born in Mexico. He's currently trying to convince the Tea Party he's a good Christian who will reduce the debt.
vechorik 3 months ago
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@Democrats4MittRomney -- ROMNEY'S 2012 PLAN CUTS MEDICARE--Ron Paul’s plan cuts $1 trillion the first year & balances the budget in 3 years. The plan cuts spending by ending the costly foreign wars, and cuts foreign welfare, corporate welfare, and overgrown federal bureaucracy. These cuts are made so that those who are dependent on domestic spending programs such as Medicare aren’t endangered through a sudden change in benefits. Romney’s plan cuts Medicare, on which many elderly Americans rely.
vechorik 2 months ago
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Democrats4MittRomney 8 months ago
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Democrats4MittRomney 8 months ago
"I have many friends that are LDS and the values that I have as a Christian are exactly the values that they are living in their lives...Presbyterians, Methodists, Catholics and LDS it's like there's more that they agree on and so many things that would unite them and it seems like we are looking for disctinctions to tear each other apart." -Mike Hannity
E Pluribus Unum=Out of Many, One
Democrats4MittRomney 8 months ago
Mormons? Glen Beck is smart in the Mormon category. Not that smart compared to average people, but in the Mormon field, yes. Smart as an average Mormon.
drwalepen15 8 months ago
@drwalepen15 Spain every year create more litterature then the middle eastern has done together over 1000 years. Does that make Islam a retarded religion?
quezcatol 8 months ago
@quezcatol no, cause you cannot change islam... you cannot add or take away from islam.
TheNihipali5 7 months ago
Only way I would vote for a mormon is if he run's against a Scientologist.
20CentPat 8 months ago
Everybody has a piece of the puzzle.... I couldn't agree more!
MaryMarchNewell 9 months ago
"I am living the dream."
"It's a great country."
Not if you need health care!
customanalogue 9 months ago
@customanalogue Its still a great country... even if you think you need health care!
MaryMarchNewell 9 months ago
@MaryMarchNewell
I have a different view. Mankind is so fragmented because of the God of Nationalism. Guess who is needed to sort that problem out?
The REAL God.
How is looking after those who is weak "socialism" - I thought it was Christianity?
And why do you have a country, supposedly the most powerful, that DOES believe in Socialism.
Socialism for the RICH !
And I am no raving leftie, in fact I am very much MORALLY to the RIGHT.
A great country? No, we need a better world. A fair one.
customanalogue 9 months ago
@customanalogue There are no gods. The only solutions to mankind's problems are the solutions mankind comes up with. Looking after the weak is socialism because the weak should look after themselves. You want a fair world? Stop taking from the people with money and giving it to those without; that's theft.
Tidusover14 9 months ago
@Tidusover14
> the only solutions to mankind's problems are the solutions mankind comes up with.
THEY ARE ***NOT*** WORKING !!!
God says: "How long will YOU... keep loving inexperience... how long will YOU stupid ones keep hating knowledge... Because I have called out but YOU keep refusing, I have stretched out my hand but there is no one paying attention... I also, for my part, shall laugh at YOUR own disaster, I shall mock when what YOU dread comes, [when] YOUR own disaster gets here."
customanalogue 9 months ago
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customanalogue 9 months ago
@Tidusover14
I bet you didn't know THAT was in the Bible, but more:
"At that time they will keep calling me, but I shall not answer; they will keep looking for me, but they will not find me, for the reason that they hated knowledge, and the fear of Yahweh they did not choose. They did not consent to my counsel; they disrespected all my reproof. So they will eat from the fruitage of their way, and they will be glutted with their own counsels."
customanalogue 9 months ago
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Porojukaha 8 months ago
@Tidusover14
"For the renegading of the inexperienced ones is what will kill them, and the easygoingness of the stupid is what will destroy them. As for the one listening to me, he will reside in security and be undisturbed from dread of calamity."
customanalogue 9 months ago
@Tidusover14
> Stop taking from the people with money and giving it to those without; that's theft.
Remember this:
POOR PEOPLE DO ***NOT*** HAVE LOBBYISTS !!!
America is CORRUPT. Your politician need 10 million in the kitty to get elected or re-elected. They have to TAKE MONEY. There are FOUR lobbyists for every congressman, ALL MAKE MORE MONEY AND GIVE OUT MORE MONEY.
Where is the voice of the poor and downtrodden? It has NOTHING to do with socialism, JUST LOVE FOR POWER AND PURE GREED!
customanalogue 9 months ago
@Tidusover14
But it is interesting that you throw your lot in wth your "Bible loving" politicians who denounce socialism. You have some strange bedfellows. Maybe they should read their Bible.
This one sounds like you:
"They scoff and speak about what is bad; About defrauding they speak in an elevated style."
You actually think it ius great idea.
"In his haughtiness the wicked one hotly pursues the afflicted one; They get caught by the ideas that they have thought up."
customanalogue 9 months ago
@Tidusover14
This could have been written today:
"For the wicked has praised himself over the selfish longing of his soul, And the one making UNDUE PROFIT has blessed himself; He has disrespected Yahweh."
"The people of the land themselves have carried on a scheme of defrauding and have done a tearing away in robbery, and the afflicted one and the poor one they have maltreated..they have defrauded without justice."
You have a GREEDY medical system THAT KILLS PEOPLE !!! They put MONEY FIRST!
customanalogue 9 months ago
@Tidusover14
You got money, you get health care, you have money, you DESERVE health care.
HOW can you support such a system? How is the life of a struggler less important than the one who has amassed wealth.
Besides, the rich are not more clever or deserving, they get rich because, not of what they know, but WHO they know. It is all about "PLAYING THE GAME" to quote a Patent Attorney friend of mine. He knows MANY whose ideas were STOLEN, and because they had no rich friends, could do NOTHING!
customanalogue 9 months ago
@customanalogue you mis understand the point here. The point is that everyone can AFFORD healthcare ALREADY we just need to deregulate it. The only reason it is so expensive is because of the existing government regulations. So adding MORE regulations will make it more expensive. Now if the expense goes up that means that regardless of who is paying America as a whole will be able to afford LESS of it.
Porojukaha 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
America doesn't have any POOR? Tell that to the POOR!
As for quoting the Bible, the point you made totally eludes me. What did Jesus mean:
"You will ALWAYS have the POOR."
Except in America? Eureka! Paradise. I THINK NOT !!!! LOL
Glenn Beck is YOUR Messiah! Or the voices that control him. LOL
You don't even know, it, you are funny, in a tragic and Shakespearean way. You have more than ONE is 150 in your JAILS - more than TWO MILLION. At least the will be guaranteed a feed.
customanalogue 8 months ago
@customanalogue
A man has a heart attack. His health insurance pays. Then in a little while has another, his insurance tells him it would not be good if he had a third.
He has a third.
He looses his health cover, to get health care he has to sell his house. His bad health continues. He and his wife becomes so destitute they have to move into the house of his daughter, who has kids and a husband to look after.
NOW IT WILL RUIN HIS DAUGHTER.
This story is TRUE - want the NAME if this family?
customanalogue 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
Have you not heard. America has invented a NEW CLASS of people.
I am sure you have heard of them, they are called THE WORKING ***POOR***
As we say, ONLY IN AMERICA! LOL
In fact you have TWICE the poverty rate of Europe. But that is OK with you because you will always have Brazil to compare yourself with.
That is like a Formular One car being compared to a billy cart.
DOES NOT MAKE YOU LOOK GOOD!
customanalogue 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
You should read up on Milton Friedman. It was HE that was source of the great Gordon Gecko quoute:
"GREED IS GOOD!"
There is also a scripture in the Bible that says to beware when they say that "bad is good and good is bad."
This is MORAL CORRUPTION.
If you can say that GREED IS GOOD, and this is AMERICA TODAY, then you can...
JUSTIFY ANYTHING, EVEN ***EVIL***
customanalogue 8 months ago
@customanalogue you have never read a book on austrian economics have you? Let me spell it out for you. selfishness taken to the point where you care more about yourself than others is the root of most sin. Greed is one type of selfishness. But, capitalism is not about greed. Its about how to distribute the goods people need. when its based on a system where they go after what they want its more effective than when its by arbitrary dictation. Watch this video please /watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A
Porojukaha 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
Capitalism is simply another false Messiah.
Endless consumerism is the answer, spend till the grave?
If THAT is what you want, then NOT all of us have to opt in, do we?
YES, YOU ***MUST***!
The problem is that capitalism is a CULT. It holds people captive. IF you do not succeed in the world where Capitalism rules, if you don't want to be a part of it, you WILL become its victim.
Some love Jesus (so they say) and others love Capitalism.
THAT says it all!
customanalogue 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
Capitalism is also the measure of a person's success.
There is NO CHOICE!
The worth of a person is how they PERFORM in the world of Capitalism.
If you FAIL, then you end up with no health insurance cover, you may need more than one job to survive, you pay $300 for anti-biotics course for your child who has an infection. What if you don't have that in your account or your credit card is maxed out? Your child develops pneumonia and DIES.
Another victim of Capitalism.
customanalogue 8 months ago
@customanalogue have you ever had a job? or do you just watch oprah all day?
Porojukaha 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
Your questions betray that you have swallowed the Capitalism DOGMA hollus bollus!
> have you ever had a job?
I happen to run a BUSINESS, I am SELF-employed, NEVER claimed un-employment benefits.
> or do you just watch oprah all day?
NEVER watched Oprah. I remember seeing clips of Tom Cruise jumping up and down and some clips when she came down here to Australia and did some shows, which I did not bother watching.
WHY DO YOU TRY TO ***PROFILE*** ME?
The GLENN BECK METHOD?
customanalogue 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
You are a Glenn Beck DISCIPLE. You assume I watch something as boring as Oprah what's her last name?
I work typically 70 hours a week. I don't make a lot of money but I work hard for it and I feel that I contribute to Society.
But in your American Society it is the BIG EARNERS that are considered to contribute the most and therefore they deserve their big yachts and BMWs?
Those things mean NOTHING and the worth of a person is HOW GOD VIEWS YOU and your worth to your NEIGHBOUR!
customanalogue 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
Don't let the Glenn Becks, the talk back hosts and the cashed up media etc, tell you WHAT to think.
They will often advice you to do things that are against your own interests using two dimensional cardboard cut-out arguments to make you do as they want. They want you to think the way THEY want you to think, BUT DON'T THINK FOR YOURSELF!
Problems are NOT 2D. Think 3D!
OTOH, they avoid describing the complex because it requires you to chew.
Propaganda is always 2D!
customanalogue 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
An example:
"Naturally the common people don't want war... But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or fascist dictatorship or a parliament or communist dictatorship... all you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism... [for] exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Hermann Goering
customanalogue 8 months ago
@customanalogue .......that has nothing to do with capitalism whatsoever. In fact, you are making my case for me. We need democracy, a democracy that is even more decentralized than the current american one because when you give people power they abuse it. the only economic system that works without a government or indeed could exist is free market capitalism.
Porojukaha 8 months ago
@Porojukaha
You are a PREACHER!
Tell the Chinese they need democracy for capitalism to work.
They will tell you they are doing very well WITHOUT democracy.
Where did this crazy idea of marrying democracy and capitalism together? Capitalism doesn't need democracy. Have you read the Citibank Plutocracy Memo? They HATE & FEAR democracy.
Capitalism is about CONSUMING TILL YOU DROP. It is about SELLING!
Will THIS save the world from itself? No, something MORE than capitalism is needed.
GOD!
customanalogue 8 months ago
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@Porojukaha
And nipping it in the bud, before YOU accuse me of being a PREACHER...
Well, exactly:
I ***AM*** !!!
LOL
customanalogue 8 months ago
@Tidusover14
And before you get the wrong idea. I am not rich, have no desire to be.
But I do indeed have friends who ARE rich because I am sought out by them as an Artisan. So, like in the Bible, there is nothing wrong about being rich. I am no Marxist, I am not a Leftist, indeed my moral compass is all Right.
It is about recognising the HUMAN DIGNITY that even God recognises, and that ALL are deserving of the most basic consideration.
In America you paint the poor as 2nd class citizens.
customanalogue 9 months ago
@customanalogue lol. in america there ARE NO POOR. even our unemployed have a better standard of living than the CEOs of banks in Brazil. How do I know? because I KNOW some rich brazilians and Ive visited their homes in brazil. When they come here their jaws DROP. There is no such thing as the poor here. There are unemployed, there are people on welfare. But those people are not denegrated by the rich. They are denegrated by the Left, by Jessie Jackson, by their own leaders.
Porojukaha 8 months ago
You can say Mormons are good people but when you get to the core of the religion they would be different today because it's a man centered religion and restricted by the gov that's why they stoped doing polygamy
bobbyraejohnson 9 months ago
Was Glenn a normal person at one point in his life? This video tends to suggest so. More current videos suggest he's full of shit.
TillThenPlease 10 months ago
I don't believe in the Bible for the same reason I don't believe in Mother Goose, said Clarence Darrow about the religion. Both are fairy tales and mature people have no business believing in their literal truth - that is for retarded children.
PineMartinAmerican 10 months ago
No one want families "dying of thirst in the desert" no matter what the situation. However, each person has the agency to run in the desert...but when they choose to do that....they also choose the consequence (possibility of dying of thirst etc)...ultimately each person is responsible for their own choices.
At the same time, we can have compassion with regards to WHY they are running into the desert--which is to escape their own govt. Our govt has a responsibility to address THIS dilemma.
tfwaters 11 months ago
@tfwaters In fairness - the Mormon Bishop and the four young missionaries did not say they "wanted" the 19 men, woman and children to die of thirst in the desert while illegally crossing in the Arizona summer - they ONLY SAID "THEY HAD IT COMING TO THEM- THEY GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED."
I sure the Mormons are not total beasts - they would have preferred no deaths - but if they were going to cross- they were 'asking' for death - they decided to break American laws.
Arizona has Sheriff Arpie.
PineMartinAmerican 10 months ago
@PineMartinAmerican Applying Common sense: They were saying....for every cause there is an affect....nothing more nothing less. If you don't want to get burned----don't put your hand on a hot stove.
Those who refuse to use common sense expose themselves to the consequences. Those who think they can "beat this system" are WILLING to take the risk knowing the possible outcome. These men were saying if you are willing to take the risk then you should expect the obvious consequence.
tfwaters 10 months ago
@tfwaters Actually, many of these people where tricked into the desert by their guides and abandoned. The idea of everything being a so-called "moral choice" is not true. People are tricked all the time -- You are tricked by your mother and father into believing in Mormon fairy tales. Many people in my generation were tricked into service in Vietnam while being told they were 'defending freedom' or because they were told they would get training and work and not double crossed.
PineMartinAmerican 10 months ago
@PineMartinAmerican Early Church history exposed the corruption in the Govt--we have always known that the Govt can't be trusted--so I can understand your lack of trust in "the system."
However, a choice is a choice no matter if a person makes that choice in ignorance or not. No matter if a person is beguiled or not. The person will still receive the same consequence even though they didn't understand fully what that choice would cause. But Truth always empowers an individual's choice.
tfwaters 10 months ago
@tfwaters
Also, you are wrong - I met those two Mormon Missionaries and a Mormon Bishop who believed the illegal immigrants should die in the desert. As to their 'free will' - they were probably tricked by a 'coyote' guide who abandoned them. The coyote guide - like the Mormons - also lacked all compassion and human kindness.
PineMartinAmerican 10 months ago
@PineMartinAmerican Narrow mindedness is not a virtue but a stumbling block. Your personal stumbling-block prevents you from seeing, let alone, pondering the facts as they are. You are blinded by preconceived notions that have no basis. Whenever a person stereo-types a group of people into= one person with one personality =their opinions will always land them out in left field.
tfwaters 10 months ago
I met Mormons who thought it was good that some families died of thirst in the desert while crossing over from Mexico - "They deserved to die because they where breaking the law." Funny - a drunken zoo keeper becomes a Mormon...
PineMartinAmerican 11 months ago
@PineMartinAmerican If the US fails to address the REAL REASON why the people are trying to escape from Mexico---then we as the leaders of the free world are not compassionate to "those dying in the desert" or to the American people whom we have pledged our allegiance to serve and protect.
The fact remains--Mexican drug cartels and extreme Muslim terrorists are posing as those who "just want a better life." These low-life-scum are not trying to gain freedom but are trying to ENSLAVE US!
tfwaters 11 months ago
Cont....
Isaiah 24:5
The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Amos 8:11¶Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:
tfwaters 1 year ago
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Porojukaha 11 months ago
@tfwaters Dude. dont even try. You will get nowhere with these people. Its like talking to a wall. They dont see with facts or evidence, they only see what they want to see. Its like it says in Matt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Porojukaha 11 months ago
Cont...LAST VERSE:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [Christ's return] shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED "GOD", or that is worshipped; so that HE AS God SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, shewing himself that he IS God.
tfwaters 1 year ago
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Porojukaha 11 months ago
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Porojukaha 11 months ago
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Porojukaha 11 months ago
Cont...
Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that AFTER MY DEPARTING shall grievous wolves enter in among you, NOT SPARING THE FLOCK.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
tfwaters 1 year ago
Cont...
Matthew 10:16
¶Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters
Was Mathew a queer?
PineMartinAmerican 11 months ago
@PineMartinAmerican Concerning your question-----it does not even deserve a response.
tfwaters 11 months ago
Cont....
John 10:11-12
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, SEETH THE WOLF COMING, and LEAVETH the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and SCATTERETH the sheep.
tfwaters 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Cont...
2 Thessalonians 2:5-7
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7aFor the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
tfwaters 1 year ago
Paul warned the Thessalonian Saints:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
tfwaters 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap One spiritually "puts on incorruption" through the power of the Atonement. Christ's righteousness COVERS our unrighteous act as we turn to Him, repent, and are forgiven. Through this healing process (coupled by our faith) the guilt is washed away and Christ helps us triumph over that sin. This triumph is demonstrated by--being forgiven and God remembering the sin no more; by us never repeating the sin; and by loosing the temptation (which is extended to us in this life or the next).
tfwaters 1 year ago
In the Resurrection we will be restored to our perfect frame physically and we will be restored spiritually to the deeds done in mortality. We are not "too big to fail" but as long as we are living we have the opportunity to right our wrongs through the power of the Atonement. Since we all are not perfect beings, we are not perfect, but we have been given the opportunity to repent, change our ways, and be forgiven as we are in mortality. God knows our hearts and he will forgive whom he will.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters "In Christ" we are perfected. Perfection does not come through our own works or righteousness.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You stated, "Most of the witnesses were related to the Smith family." Wrong once again. The three witnesses: Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, Martin Harris none were related to the Smiths. The additional eight witnesses who also saw the plates included: Christian Whitmer, Jacob Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Jr., John Whitmer, Hiram Page, Joseph Smith, Sr., Hyrum Smith, and Samuel H. Smith. Out of 11 total--- only 3 were related to Joseph. These 3 were men of high moral standing.
tfwaters 1 year ago
Which brings me to my last point--that the Atonement of Jesus Christ was wrought to satisfy the demands of JUSTICE and extend to us (both the living and dead) the OPPORTUNITY of MERCY for all who desire it. This mercy being extended not because of our own goodness or works (lest we boast) but because of God's goodness/grace and HIS WORK as we choose him. It is HIS WORK and HIS GLORY...to bring to pass the Immortality (grace-free gift) and Eternal Life (reward for faithfulness) for ALL men.
tfwaters 1 year ago
Those who were "disobedient" during Noah's day had the gospel preached to them in mortality, however, according to Moses, "they loved Satan more than God" and they refused to repent to Noah's call.
Think about the majority of the earth's existence has never heard of Jesus Christ nor the doctrine of baptism...what about them? Many could have been true to their beliefs...should they also spend eternity in spirit prison because they weren't given the opportunity to be taught the gospel?
tfwaters 1 year ago
Paul taught that, "For this end Christ died, and rose, and revived that he might be Lord both of the dead and the living." Peter giving more information by saying, "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead." Specifically directing to the disobedient who died in the flood waters--not being "saved" like Noah's family who were in the ark. Noah's family were saved both physically & spiritually, whereas those who rejected the gospel were lost (assigned to spirit prison).
tfwaters 1 year ago
According to the previous verses we can understand that the Lord's ministry here on earth was to teach both the living (mortals) and the dead (spirits in prison). While Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days he caused the gospel to be preached to those in spirit prison. Peter stated that the dead will be judged according to what they did in mortality but that they would be allowed to be taught the gospel in the Spirit World and live "according to God in the spirit." Baptism is essential for both.
tfwaters 1 year ago
Cont...
Romans 14:9
For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
tfwaters 1 year ago
Cont...
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
tfwaters 1 year ago
Peter 3: 18-21
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
tfwaters 1 year ago
We know from Paul's admonition to the Corinthian Saints that (1) baptisms for the dead was being practiced during his day (2) he used this practice to testify of the reality of the resurrected Lord (3) he in no way discredits the practice but uses it to verify another true doctrine that all will have the opportunity to be resurrected.
The practice of baptizing the dead was forbidden by the Catholic Church in the 4th century and attributed it to "an aberrant practice of heretical groups."
tfwaters 1 year ago
Cont....
Just like at "death" (when our mortal body and spirit are separated) our mortal bodies will return back to dust (raw element) from which it was created and the spirit will "return back to God" (return back to spirit-form). So too, when other planets (physical bodies) are (separated from their temporal aspect) it will return back to the raw ETERNAL ELEMENT that it was created therefrom. This earth also has a spirit (which is intelligence) and it goes back to its raw form.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Mormons don't believe there is an eternal God. They believe in the FORCE..
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap You stated, "Mormons don't believe there is an eternal God. They believe in the FORCE.." Now you are just getting plain goofy. Comments like this... don't even deserve a response.
tfwaters 1 year ago
Gen 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Moses 4:25
By the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, until thou shalt return unto the ground—for thou shalt surely die—for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou wast, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Thats right. The life given to us by God will return to Him. This doesn't mean you had intelligence before you were given life. Job 9:10 Which doeth great things PAST FINDING OUT, yea, and wonders without number. You think Joseph Smith had all of the answers? He didn't. He made up things as time passed.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap You stated, "You think Joseph Smith had all the answers?" No I don't. Only God has all the answers. But prophets have more answers than "your normal Joe." (no pun intended) The understandings of lost doctrines recorded by prophets and apostles have been restored through the teachings of a prophet.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Nothing was lost. The Holy Spirit and the church of Jesus Christ never left the earth. Joseph changed the nature of God and changed the gospel to glorify men instead of God.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Both OT prophets and NT Apostles do not agree with you. Both prophesied that before Christ would return the 2nd Time there would be a spiritual "falling away" first also known as a "famine of hearing the Words of God" (Apostasy). Most people are either for or against the words of the prophets and apostles. Looks like you have to make a choice between their doctrine and your own. Do you believe the scriptures or not? Are you anxiously awaiting Christ's return or not?
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters A falling away does not mean Christs church left the earth and needed to be restored. Which Christ are you waiting for? An elder spirit brother whose life can be mimicked as mortal worthiness? Which apostles? The chosen, or new apostles that teach another gospel? You repeat the words of the New Testament and I know that in Mormonism they have completely different meaning than that of the Bible.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Many have come after Jesus changing his identity, denying the accuracy of Gods Word, claiming mans authority is necessary to reach God. Prophets, apostles, popes and saints create a barrier between the Lord and men. False gospels deny access to the Savior. As a Mormon, you have been taught never to pray to Jesus, only reverence his name. Jesus did not fail. He is the door to eternal life. He said, if you attempt to climb up another way, you are a theif and a robber.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
The "oneness" of the Godhead explained:
John 17:21-23
21 That they (apostles) all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they (apostles) may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters John isn't saying that men are of the same nature or that men become Gods. "Hast sent me" means "In Christ" men are perfected and able to live in the presense of God. Mortals and angels were created by God. They do not become Gods. That is blasphemy.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Cont...
But this does not mean that God does not exist nor does it mean that God is "uncreated", nor does it mean that God is totally invisible....it means that he can be seen only by Spiritual eyes that are capable of seeing spiritual things and beings (which are created from eternal matter).
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Biblically, God is spirit and a consuming fire. Jesus has a physical body. Thats it.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Biblically.... Jehovah (who was a pre-mortal spirit) took upon himself flesh and "dwelt among us" and is known by the name of Jesus Christ. Jehovah (Jesus) became a mortal---having a tangible physical body and HE continues to live with a tangible physical body that is resurrected (now immortal-cannot die). The Holy Ghost has always been a spirit.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Jesus was God before mortality. Phl 2:6 Who, being in the FORM OF God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Num 23:19 God [is] not a man Job 33:12 God greater than man. Eze 28:2 art man, not God. Act 17:29 God is not man. Job 9:32 not a man.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Cont...
The worlds were formed out of eternal matter. After the worlds were formed they could be seen by the natural eye--before they were formed they were invisible to the natural eye.
However, eternal matter CAN BE SEEN by the spiritual eye. Spiritual eyes can see God---natural eyes cannot behold him (therefore God remains invisible to them).
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Like the witnesses saw the gold plates with their spiritual eyes? You would be very wrong believing what Joseph made up.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap The "gold plates" were made out of metal....hence they can be seen by mortal men with the natural eye. Your comments are getting more and more desperate for debatable material.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters In the end, witnesses left the church, were excommunicated and never rebaptized. When interviewed, the witnesses said they saw the gold plates with spiritual eyes. Fact....Most of the witnesses were related to the Smith family.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap How is this a response to what was previously stated? Oh I understand, if you don't have a response---resort to change the subject and attack character. The 3 witnesses wilted from the heat of the fire, however, they never recanted what they had seen and heard. Once again, the gold places were metal and could be seen and handled...it was NOT a book that only "spiritual eyes" could behold. This book was crafted for mortals to hold and read like another book (including the Bible).
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters The witnesses were used. They sought to regain respect in the church and never received any. Their testimonies were used by the church and the witnesses were treated like trash.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
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tfwaters 1 year ago
One of Jehovah's names is spelled with the first and last characters of the alphabet...in Greek Alpha and Omega...the Beginning and the End.
Just because Jehovah is the Beginning and the End does not mean that he is "uncreated." Everything that is Eternal is "created" before it is formed/organized (therefore "no beginning and no end"). No such thing as "uncreated" because there is no such thing as "immaterial matter." Matter can be unorganized but it cannot be in the form of "uncreated."
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters You have been deceived by Josephs Dawin like evolution progression of Gods. Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was NOT ANYTHING MADE that was made. Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds WERE FRAMED by THE WORD of God, so that THINGS WHICH ARE SEEN were NOT MADE of THINGS WHICH DO APPEAR. The Word created Ex nihilo = from, or out of nothing. 1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, // and these three are ONE.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed [ORGANIZED/FORMED] by the word of God, so that things which are seen (physically) were not made of things which do appear (eternal matter can't be seen by the physical eye)."
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Josephs material matter doctrine is heretical. Joseph has lowered the power and glory of God to raise men up. Haven't you heard, the intelligence of man is foolishness to God?
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap When I "create" something I am taking materials (physical matter--that I CAN SEE) combining and re-organizing them into another form. Take a cake for instance---I use flour, sugar, baking powder, eggs, oil, milk, and vanilla. I didn't create the materials (physical matter) I just combined them according to the recipe.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Human minds cannot contain or understand Gods creative abilities. He put flesh upon dead dry bones and they came to life.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Cont...
The WORD (Jehovah) took Eternal Matter that was before created (he could SEE IT) and He framed (formed) the world. Elohim provided these elements beforehand. All physical things were framed by Jehovah. But Elohim created them spiritually before they were physically formed. Jehovah framed our physical bodies but Elohim begot us as spirit sons and daughters. Jehovah became the ONLY BEGOTTEN in the Flesh by Elohim all others are begotten through spirit only.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters Elohim created them spiritually before they were physical? Spiritual worlds and universe? That is complete nonsense.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Eternal element and good spirits can only be seen by other spirits and/or those who are "spiritually minded" (spiritual gift). The "carnally minded" cannot see eternal element. Spirits cannot be seen by the natural eye----physical eyes do not behold----but it is the spirit within the body that can behold. Many people have seen spirits but they were not detecting them by their natural eyes. All this will be obvious to those who have beheld.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters The human mind is capable of seeing things that do not exist. Witnesses of the gold plates verifies this. Seeking angels and spirits of the dead carries a warning from God. Joseph came up with alot of rediculous ideas. Asking a spirit to shake your hand is right up there with 6 foot quakers on the moon.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Eternal (spiritual) matter is the raw material that this physical earth was created from. This matter has always existed--but it is temporarily combined together to frame/form different planets. Thus the eternal (which cannot be seen by the natural eye) can temporarily "appear" (to the natural eye) when it is formed into a physical entity. When these elements are deconstructed, they will "disappear" (from the natural eye), however those elements go back to their previous form.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@tfwaters I know all about those wild theories. Can't you see Josephs theories lower the power of God like putting him in a box? Problem is, this theoretical spiritualism came from Satan to deceive men. There is no invisible spirit for every rock. God creates ex nihilo, out of nothing and I gave you a verse proving this. From Gen. to John His breath brings life. From His Word universes appear.
awolLDSasap 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap You stated, "Can't you see Joseph's theories lower the power of God like putting him in a box?" Actually that is what you are doing---because you don't believe God is capable of more than what your mind can conceive. To start from the foundation.....you don't even believe that God is BOTH Just and Merciful. You know that he is merciful but that it is at the expense of justice.
tfwaters 1 year ago
@awolLDSasap Darwin's Theory of Evolution is the notion that all life is related and has descended from a common ancestor: the birds and the bananas, the fishes and the flowers--all related. Wrong! God created all forms of life with seed within itself to recreate it self. A bird cannot produce a banana, a fish cannot produce a flower. God patterned man after himself after his own image and in his own likeness. Many believe that God, angels, and spirits are another species--they are not.
tfwaters 1 year ago