Traditional Models Of "Free Education" Vs. Mine

[winterstellar]

"85% living off welfare permanently? THey should move to WEstern Europe then, the rates for welfare are WAY higher there. Was America the only country that accepted to let them in or something? Tough luck! Hehe, I'm joking a bit, rates are low in parts of Europe too, but they are MUCH higher, up to several times higher than minimum wage in America in other european countries. : )

[kelco93]

Education should be free - "regurgitating facts and passing tests" =/= education.

More productive people is not as important as decreasing numbers of ignorant people!

In Australia we have free K12.

University (for residents) incurs no up-front fee. It's subsidised, but accumulates a tax debt. Universities fund themselves by enrolling fee paying foreign students (education is one of our biggest 'exports'). So we make money from exporting western values (mostly the good ones) to the world!

[AntiBullshitMan]

"passing tests" =/= education"

People who peddle this line just conflate the *process* of being educated with simply having mandates for students to ultimately *demonstrate* the knowledge gleaned, post process, but *still* as part of the course. Even now, the 2 are mutually exclusive. That's never even been an issue. The issue is: Ongoing tolerance of archaic strangleholds on pathways to certification. Unwillingness to accept that catering to short-term, teen oriented psychology, is a must.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Currently the process is a giant waste of time as its foundation fails to recognize (or accept) that students need to be given hands-on, practical incentive carrots ($). And having "Career day" tripe shoved in their minds earlier & earlier, is not it.

Asking teens to invest their best years doing something that most of them realistically have no genuine interest in doing, only works if their payoff is immediate. Especially for kids living in slumps/ghettos, where drop-out rates continue to soar

[AntiBullshitMan]

Lastly, the presumption that all/most students must jump through the same/similar hoops (physically attend, in the digital age, in order to qualify for any major test) is unfounded & leads to the suppression of technology for widespread redundancy, abundance of teachers (& salaries) & overly extortionist teachers unions whose sole purpose is to operate within the strict confines of the public worker's interest instead of the student's. The profession is obsolete, and roughly 80% of it has to go.

[kelco93]

@kelco93 Education should be about teaching people to think and to question and to challenge authority. Ultimately the world will benefit more by dispelling ignorance than by making people 'clever' (there will never be a shortage of clever people - half a dozen in any field an can change the world).

I think however we are in general agreement and I'm guessing that you're really opining about the specific issues you face in USA of which I am largely ignorant. Thanks for your time BTW.

[masluxx]

@fringeelements the point of schools for students to learn the skills to be productive to society. That is the return on the investment public schools offer. Vegetable offer a lot of the nutrients needed by the human body but are lacking in some. To ignore those that are missing to promote your ideas would cause problems. Now how will you supplement your diet of strawman arguments to better fit the analogy?

[masluxx]

if a student does not learn 99% of the time it is the students fault. This systematic blaming of the system or in this case the teachers for the students failure to learn is indicative of the problem in current society where none what to take responsibility for their own actions. When i was in college if i did not ace an exam i did not blame the professor i blamed myself for not doing or knowing what i needed to know or do. I found this attitude common among those that did well.

[Pulchism]

free* education worked in Ireland pretty well. Even though there was still higher wages for engineers (to talk about what I know a little of) in the UK,Germany, America, etc. the "brain drain" mostly stopped when lots of hi-tech jobs materialised here in the early nineties (pharma, software, microelectronics). I think most people are only driven to emigrate when they don't have much choice.

*free means you pay a "registration fee" every year

[Pulchism]

@Pulchism As regards teachers, yes there's good and bad, but I think they're even more important in the 'information age'. I returned to college two years ago after 6 years break and the difference in the expectation regarding your ability to sift through the sea of information now at our fingertips is astounding. So much time is lost just gathering and skimming. Having someone sit down with you for five minutes and explain the essentials is absolutely invaluable.

[Pulchism]

@Pulchism Regarding teachers wages: I believe even the worst teachers with the most mundane of duties are a lot less parasitic on efforts of humanity than the likes of stock market traders, bankers.

Regarding the plebs popping them out like rabbits: if people get educated don't they tend to the pop them out less? Even my own pleb ancestry seems to bear that one out.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"if people get educated don't they tend to the pop them out less?"

I'm not rallying against educating anyone, I'm pointing out why it makes no sense to structure an educational system in 2011 based on a 19th century model. My belief that education leads to less reproduction is precisely why I'm pointing out the flaws & non-necessity of the overly widespread institutions, which are the #1 cause of debt in America currently & which play copyright with vital information that belongs on the net.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@Pulchism

Also, I was addressing overpopulation in the present, not the future. Seeing as how most parents have children *after* they graduate/drop-out/are done "being students" themselves... tackling the points I made by looking at the effects of education/students alone, is a non-sequitur. It's about giving parents who have no business being parents, a reason to not be parents, by revoking overly generous reproductive tax subsidies. Start out in small doses, see where it goes. Trial & error.

[Pulchism]

@AntiBullshitMan that's a very utilitarian view to take I think in the context of education, but I don't know much about the "reproductive tax subsidies" you're talking about, so I can't argue with you. I'll have to watch more of your videos I guess :-D

[Pulchism]

@Pulchism also, pardon my being slow on the uptake but how can you on the one hand 'deincentivise irresponsible parenthood' by talking away 'undeserved' educational privileges but on the other say this is only intended to effect those who already benefited from such privileges themselves? I thought the idea was educated people make better choices in the first place? You seem to be setting bar which if one generation fails, subsequent generations are hamstrung? how does that improve things?

[AntiBullshitMan]

@Pulchism

Because nothing suggests that students will fail at a greater rate if their education process is no longer institutionalized in this archaic fashion. I'm not making the case for any sort of a generational sacrifice. We should adapt the online model & offer an incentive reward of $50K for every student who graduates, instead of continuing to dish out 150+K of taxpayer money per each graduate in the current model; all so that the same exact teaching can redundantly re-occur each year.

[AntiBullshitMan]

No teacher has to physically sit down with you. This is why I've done several videos calling for lectures by the best teachers to be recorded & made available online for free, or on public access TV (what's left of it). Record the best students interacting with the best teachers & you have the official framework, instead of forcing all students to be slaves to their geography. Chat rooms can still offer private tutors serving as a safety-net for the few students who literally have to "interact".

[Pulchism]

@AntiBullshitMan Thanks for replying.

I think the tele-teaching your advocating only works for information swallowing type courses. Though unfortunately we get mostly get "lectured at" rather than taught in university/school, when someone teaches they are interacting with the class/audience at some level. Different people grasp different things at different times, not to forget that teachers learn to teach by repeatedly trying to teach!! We should be pressing for more interaction, not less.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@Pulchism

It's about observing/listening to what the teacher does/says. This can be gleaned electronically.

It's also about asking questions & getting answers. This too can be gleaned electronically. A National High School (where all lessons would be recorded) would contain the best teachers/students & would naturally offer the most insightful Q&As. Students requiring more than that can easily access tutors on sites like stickam & pay for the services by deducting from their 50K grad reward.

[Pulchism]

@AntiBullshitMan ok your idea has its merits, but I still think the communication would be too one-way to approximate "interaction" and replace the current system entirely. If you reduce the number of teachers then the only responses they would have time to give would be "en masse", which would render it no better an experience than the text book (albeit with quicker revisions). (good) Text books already contain the most concise and distilled instruction possible.

[fringeelements]

Well there are other countries with mostly free schooling that did not do so well, and people who are truly worth being sent to school - the hard sciences and a sparse few in the humanities - would be able to easily pay back loans. This would allow a self-rationing system that disincentivizes hordes of english majors to emerge.

Ireland freed up the market during the 90's, in regulations and taxes, that's why they were so prosperous and everyone was better off.

[Pulchism]

@fringeelements re the loans- they can get only get the loan in the first place if (i) there's a sure job waiting for them at the end (ii) they are sure they won't fail (iii) they/ their parents can back the loan;

re. Ireland's success, yes definitely lots of factors played a part, particularly tax policy, but having an educated workforce was important

re. "truly worth being sent to school" - I see you share the anti-faeces man's utilitarianism? If you can't put a $ on it its not worth anything?

[VampiressOnDaProwlq]

@AntiBull

i completely concur on the spoiled conceited arrogant egocentric "Quiver full" parents' unhealthy multiple childbirth, chronically reproducing exacerbating already serious complication of far too many spoiled brats & starving malnourished kids of Working poor, each hr of each day, that needing to stop by legislation or law enforcement arresting quiver full parents as child abusers hurting kids in very unhealthy home atmosphere, have kids raised by friends, relatives, govt or adopted.

[VampiressOnDaProwlq]

@AntiBull

post-grad (and some grad) school shouldnt be free but affordable, sometimes somewhat expensive by marketability of different degrees, undergrad & grad programs, subjects/curriculum and its demand in Domestic job market.

likewise, different degrees/programs & subjects and their demand in varieties of contrasting/comparable International job markets across countries and continents.

different versions of each packages for the same degree programs, partly by Domestic Vs Internat 'l work.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@VampiressOnDaProwlq "school shouldnt be free but affordable"

No, it should & can be free, but the entire system (institution) needs an overhaul. I know you saw my Wisconsin video, but I've done a few others before that one, where I make the case for online courses. I've made the argument in this comment section too, so I don't feel like repeating it again here. If you go to my page & search "education", those videos will pop up. Or watch my featured vid, or check Gary's BuySomeBrains channel.

[VampiressOnDaProwlq]

@ABM

i'm for:

*free quality education, K-12, undergrad & grad.

*teachers paid high salaries (bonus/raises for better teachers)

*some kind of teaching/academia subject/curriculum paid more than others

*contrast overall difficulty of varieties of teaching (i.e. gym coach, low pay Vs specialized professors, far higher pay)

*paid by training/experience lvl, teaching performance (not just by student GPA/Test results but also a teacher's effective style, creativity, sophistication & natural talent.

[fringeelements]

Oooh oooh! My turn! I like puppies, and vanilla bean ice cream, and goat cheese on pepperoni, and muscular boys with supple buttockses. Your turn!

[VampiressOnDaProwlq]

@fringeelements

umm ...sure, fruitcake.

AntiBull, as it happens, is a friend i was telling my preferred educational parameters to, contrasting with the unimaginative extreme inflexible variables, he commonly encounters, amongst Left Democratic public advocates & Right Conservative private advocates.

but scare few with creative flexible minds to see subtle nuance & pick an eclectic parameter mix, acutely understanding all & rejecting trends.

it wasnt a naive simplistic "wish list", k, nudnik?

[fringeelements]

It's clear you didn't get my comment. I was making fun of your a la carte statism, as though states were some simple machine that can be controlled and modified like a car.

A state fundamentally rests of belief and support. Thus all states, even "totalitarian" states, are constrained by this belief as well. New regimes that go against the collective fantasy fail. That's why your a la carte statism is retarded.

[whedonfreak976]

@fringeelements hey brat pitt grown ups are trying to talk so bugger off dude, and go watch your sexy self and flex grrrrrr so go you he man you oye

[AntiBullshitMan]

No. Why structure today's education system based on a 19th century model? Why keep more than a select few teachers (best ones)? Have 1 national high-school, record all lessons & student/teacher interactions, & make it available online for free. Right now 150K is being spent on every graduate, & yet tons of students *still* aren't motivated to learn. Get rid of the institution & pay the students to learn. Offer each kid 50K for graduating. It's only one third of the 150K being wasted per kid now.

[masluxx]

@AntiBullshitMan i think your arguments have some real merits However the social skills learned in school should not be undervalued. I have known some that were, not the brightest, that have done well after school because they had great people skills. Maybe their brains where not wired to remember things or compile complex or abstract ideas, but they were very good with people. As long as people still "go" to work this is a skill that will remain in demand. How do you address this?

[fringeelements]

@masluxx Good point. I think the arguments about people being able to choose what they eat have some merits, but the nutritional content of vegetables should not be undervalued. How do you address this?

[fringeelements]

@AntiBullshitMan Why not? Because then all of those teachers would have to get real jobs!

And they don't want that, so they use the state to keep an obsolete system in place.

This idiotic prussian system would have been phased out long ago in a free market because parents could choose:

- Old timey expensive school that is a daily hassle of sleep deprivation and petty rules but actually teaches less stuff or

- New, convenient school that teaches more stuff and only the best quality lectures

[fringeelements]

Paying kids to graduate is a form of paying people to have kids. So the group that has the most kids will benefit most from that scheme. If I have 10 kids, other people have to pay them $500,000. Better than the current system, but still a horrific injustice.

[JDBlessin]

As someone who went to high school through online courses I have to say the education was drastically better online. You have to teach yourself, it's of immense help when you get to college, because you know how to study. Motivation is a little bit harder on the internet, cheating is much easier, and social interaction is non-existent. All of that being said, from my experience the education is drastically better, if for no reason other than you're basically teaching yourself.

[thesparitan]

@AntiBullshitMan Need more videos LOL

[AntiBullshitMan]

@thesparitan

Uploaded a new one 2 days ago on the AntiBSMan channel. More to come on this channel soon, probably in July when I go for my vacation. Posting videos is a bitch because the aftermath always consists of me wasting tons of my free-time arguing with the detractors in these restrictive comment sections, only to have them refuse to acknowledge the validity of any point I throw their way.

[thesparitan]

@AntiBullshitMan LOL know how you feel. Debating these people causes major stress sometimes because there inability to have a rational debate. Even when you show a fallacy in their logical arguments they wont even accept it. I reminds me of a person I was talking to that believe nuclear bombs needed oxygen to work, and no matter what facts I offered him he wouldn't accept the truth of my claim. Why do you think they are so unable to think rationally? or debate properly?

[niknik2203]

@AntiBullshitMan What is your opinion on the extra entitlements granted to asylum seekers in the name of compassion? Should we give refugees more entitlements because of the ordeal they have had to overcome, or is this unfair and only serves to produce a mentality of entitlement and laziness?

Here in Australia, refugees are granted free housing, dental care, child care, public transport etc, which no one else is granted. Subsequently, 85% of refugees are living off welfare permanenty. Opinion?

[AntiBullshitMan]

"85% of refugees are living off welfare permanenty"

Which in all likelihood means that the particular services provided are overly generous. Before casting a verdict, I'd have to know what (if any) alternative Australia has to the "Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act" & other such incentive-to-work programs that typically go along with gov't handouts.

Taxpayer money going towards educating kids through an archaic method is entirely different from taxpayer money going to feed them.

[Ramiromasters]

Ok then, so this is not stand alone video about the problems of today, just part of a series.

Regarding internet learning. I would say that society still needs a guided introduction to learning, because otherwise children wouldn't train their mind early on to develop all their brain potential. Parents in many cases miss guide their children too, so I think until we have a well educated generation, we need teachers to motivate and guide children, till they become self-sufficient on that aspect.

[somecomputergeek]

Really? You're going to make me go through this video again, make me read a response to somebody ELSE, and you're not even going to address any of my points?

That just makes me sad.

[AntiBullshitMan]

Like I said, you don't make any points that elevate the debate, you just keep reiterating the same, tired shit I've addressed millions of times in older debates. I'm not going to "make you" do anything. If you take your redundant comments elsewhere, & no longer shove them in my inbox, I won't try hunting them down & responding to them. Trust me.

"to somebody ELSE"

Because that "somebody else" had the same underlying theme as you; Endless griping about the fact that laws are actually enforced.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

"the same, tired shit"

That attacking people and stealing people is wrong? Its only tedious and tired because you refuse to acknowledge it when YOU do it.

That "somebody else" was not me, and was not using any arguments that I think are compelling. Simply because we agree on the same principles doesn't mean we think alike. Its just easier to put everybody in a box and attack that straw man box rather than respond to every criticism made of you. That's why you do it.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"attacking people and stealing people is wrong"

Freeloading is wrong. You're not living on a deserted island. By avoiding taxation you'll leech off of the services provided by other people's tax dollars, you insufferable oaf. You continue to casually ignore this & other fundamental points I raised, 1 of which is: States should *not* claim ownership of every acre of habitable land, as I'm all for giving that absolutists like you their moronic "every man for himself 100%" non-system alternative.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

Once again, you're confusing the state with society. Yes, freeloading is wrong, and the state is the biggest freeloader in society. Some services are inherently associated with an unequal distribution of cost and a broad distribution of benefit, such as a lighthouse. That doesn't mean that, if you build a lighthouse, you have some moral right to threaten and steal from anyone who benefits from its use, which is everyone.

I am not an absolutist individualist.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"you refuse to acknowledge" =/= I refuse to bow down to your painfully oversimplified outlook on society.

"when YOU do it"

Quit capitalizing words in every other sentence, as if to suggest your cap-effect highlights a point that's beyond 1-dimensional. Nothing you've said here requires harsh emphasis. It's bad enough that you've flooded this comment section with talking points which have nothing to do with the video, but to relentlessly insist that I'm missing your point, is beyond obnoxious.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

If you weren't missing the point, you would have addressed it by now rather than complain about my capitalization and call me obnoxious.

You really can't see why education is the way it is? You haven't figured out by now that using force proactively to fund a program leads to corruption of those that provide the services and mediocrity in the service itself? You don't know why we still have teachers, and chalkboards in the age of the internet? It all has to do with your video.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"you're focused a little too much on teacher salaries"

I explained why in the video. The current administration toys with paying teachers even more, based on the teachers' performances, which can only be arrived at based on how students perform. If they talked about *reducing* pay based on *poor* performance, it'd be a different story.

"a whole host of issues here"

Everything is reciprocal when dealing with funding in the context of society. Doesn't mean any aspect of it should be ignored.

[TheAzov]

It depends also what is meant by "productive." Most of the "slow learners" are going to be counter clerks at fast food franchises or shopping malls. The free education they 'd receive would be adequate for this as they are producing according to capacity. The real problem is highly intelligent, high academic achievers who face diminished prospects because of economic downturns or structural inequities. E-g-y-p-t. . .

[TheAzov]

But the point of the modern institutional school system is only partially educational. It's also social, rising with the factory system, getting the little urchins used to "producing" in a collective setting under "foremen." Keeping them off the streets and out of trouble, as a babysitting service for working families, also preventing their labor exploitation, all were concerns of early 20th century reformers.

[TheAzov]

Here's the irony: the intelligentsia under Communism were the vanguard of those trying to ditch or change the system, so they could reap the rewards of their knowledge just like the West, if not in the West. Yet, without socialist breakdown of traditional class barriers providing free education, these people would never have gotten anywhere close to a university.

[Ramiromasters]

This video was so shockingly misguided and poisonous to the minds of the innocent I just might have to do a video response...

[AntiBullshitMan]

@Ramiromasters

Firstly, go fuck yourself. Keep the trolly snark to yourself.

Secondly, if you do in fact do a response, play my video in the response and respond to it contextually as the points are made. Don't just poorly paraphrase or change the entire scope like 90% of people who do video replies tend to do.

[ZenCross1]

People who have lots of kids tend to be uneducated. I am you and you are me.

[HarrysSecret]

Technology is ok to a point but some people (myself inc) also need to engage on a personal level in discussion with tutors and peers, (degree level)

The matter of younger people being home schooled hits problems other than the issue of adequate learning. Social development, interactions and learning about teamwork helps these kids prepare not only for further education but also adult life.

If all the kids are learning at home who is taking care of them? Usually both parents work in UK.

[Ramiiam]

I didn't quite understand your "correlation-causation timeline" point. Where you saying that the provision of services like free education has incentivized parents to have more children? Show me evidence of that. Fertility and birth rates have fallen as societies have provided more services of this kind, not the opposite. There's your correlation. You should refresh your memory on the demographic dynamics. The population explosion was caused by falling death rates, not rising birth rates.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@Ramiiam

biologycorner(.)com/worksheets­/humanpop_graph(.)html

The population rise exploded around the time in history where notions of "social responsibility" extended heavily to reproduction driven entitlements. I don't dismiss falling death rates as a contributor, but that alone doesn't account for the 4.5 billion over the last 60 years. I'll try to look up some stats on a country-by-country basis for a future video, and show the "more-entitlements/incentive-t­o-reproduce" correlation.

[Ramiiam]

@AntiBullshitMan "that alone doesn't account for" That can be tested. World population grows by natural increase (births - deaths). You can find historical data for birth rates, death rates, and rates of natural increase. You'll be able to tell at a glance whether changes in birth or death rates were responsible for most of the rise in natural increase. Let us know what you find.

[prophetchannel]

free education= wikipedia

[kimdpetersen]

Several problems with this one:

* Free education + free market is possible (and exists) - look at Scandinavia. [free market != market without tax].

* Over-reproduction is a sign of poverty and *lack* of education not the reverse.

* Free education is not the same as saying: No rationalization of educational resources.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@saaweeet

Higher education is a huge aspect of it, as that's where the big bucks are always loaned, followed by years (if not decades) of accumulating debt. The fact that they'd be in less debt without having the post-secondary debt piled on top, is a non-sequitur.

"the need to upgrade public libraries"

No such need here, nor in most places I visited. But regardless, if we go down the list of items in need of upgrading & use it as counterarguments to proposals like this one, we get nowhere.

[exmerion]

@AntiBullshitMan Alright try this one /watch?v=r9LelXa3U_I

[SBRslacker00]

Your argument that free education leads to over-reproduction is backwards. There is an inverse correlation between education level of females and their levels of reproduction. The best way to curb reproduction is to educate females.

Here's a YT vid with further background: 3xytH0FveYA

[AntiBullshitMan]

@SBRslacker00

The point was, clearly, not that education in & of itself leads to over-reproduction, but that education can be attained without providing breeders with incentive to breed at a greater level because society is always guaranteed to be there & cover a huge chunk of the child's upbringing costs. Not a complicated equation.

Gonna watch the video you linked now.

[SBRslacker00]

@AntiBullshitMan

I still don't see that correlation. The ones doing the over-reproduction aren't doing this kind of cost-benefit analysis. I'd be more inclined to use this argument used towards food stamps or something more immediately tanglible rather than education which isn't a concern for parents until well into the child's life. If child education isn't free, most lower class people simply won't educate their children in any formal manner simply because they won't be able to afford it.

[Ramiiam]

@AntiBullshitMan

You're missing SBR's point. What is the evidence that any such incentive exists? During the entire era of free public education, fertility rates have been in decline, the exception being a two-decade long baby boom that happened in a few countries. The downward fertility trend began in the west and has spread worldwide, fastest in exactly those regions where public education has become most available. I thought you watched those demographic transition vids of mine.

[karakzanreal]

@AntiBullshitMan I don't think that irrational people who thinks its a good idea to have 5+ kids are going to be swayed by economic rational. If preventing over breeding is the goal some form of sterilization is to only sure way to go.

I for one hope that through education we can reduce the number of irresponsibly reproducing individuals to an unsustainable level but if not nature will eventually correct the imbalance.

[Ramiiam]

@SBRslacker00

Quite right.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@saaweeet "but the option to learn inside the classroom should remain"

Based on your entire comment here, I think we agree on much more than I initially assumed. In my Wisconsin video, I talk about baby steps, and how the changes should first take effect at grade 12, and if we see improvements, the online-effect should gradually shift to the lower grades from there on out.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@saaweeet

Also, if you compare overall student performance in the States, post-federal funding (70's onwards) & to pre 70's when education was only funded at the state/local level, you'll see that the additional money did nothing to actually improve dropout rates & grade point averages, and in many instances has actually worsened things. Throwing even more money at teachers is no solution.

I was just sent this great video... it expands on the concepts I touched upon: /watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

[AntiBullshitMan]

@saaweeet "poverty"

Which is precisely why we should take lesson plans out of the clutches of the institution & make it them available for free online.

It doesn't have to be "in the same household". You yourself brought up public libraries where internet access has been free for well over a decade now.

The poor would benefit. Preposterous tuition fees & the prospect of being 40K in the hole come graduation day, is precisely what prevents the poor from bothering with post-secondary endeavors.

[somecomputergeek]

When somebody is talking about "free" education, what they mean is education that is paid for under the threat of being beaten and raped in prison rather than paid for by voluntary interactions in a free market.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@somecomputergeek

No one's stupid enough to believe that money for any program grows on trees. The point of this video is that education doesn't have to cost anything.

"threat of being beaten and raped in prison"

As is the case with breaking laws in general: antibullshitman(.)blogspot(.)c­om/2011/03/proindividual-defen­ds-pro-individualism(.)html

Although the "beaten and raped" touch is mostly dramatics to drive the fear tactics home.

"voluntary interactions"

Yeah go read what I linked to.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

Yes, the threat of being beaten and raped IS a fear tactic. Just ask 10 guys what they are most AFRAID of about going to prison, and that will be their answer. However, *I'M* not the one using the tactic, I'm just REMINDING you that YOU are using the tactic.

I've responded you your blog on mine:

ultimatedeity. com/

[AntiBullshitMan]

"I've responded"

One of the reasons I pointed you to that blog was so that you'd learn about my opposition to States claiming ownership of every last acre of habitable land. You responded by doing *exactly* what I criticized others of in that blog; just reiterating the points I already refuted.

Person A: Traffic Laws are FORCE & shouldn't exist.

Person B: Believers of this should be given a spot of land & allowed to construct an alternative.

Person A: Traffic laws are FORCE & shouldn't exist!

[AntiBullshitMan]

"ask 10 guys what they are most AFRAID of about going to prison"

A fine argument for safer prison conditions, not for "laws I dislike shall from now on be constantly labelled as FORCE, but not laws which I happen to be ok with". You're not "reminding" me of anything, you're doing what your fellow "Imma point out laws are enFORCED cuz people don't know that, & I'm smart" drones always do; Diverting from the video's point because you've got tunnel-vision goggles on. Re-watch this, & re-listen.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

ALL laws are force. I say this not because "I'm smart", but because I'm honest.

People know its force, but to get the faithful to acknowledge they are using the threat of violence is like getting the faithful to acknowledge prayer means talking the sky.

When you justify ANY law, you justify the use of force. This is why laws for violent crime (murder, rape, assault) are not as controversial as laws for victimless, non-violent "crimes", the enforcement of which is aggression.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"I say this not because "I'm smart", but because I'm honest"

Laws, by definition, have to be enforced. You're not "honest" for pointing this out, you're just making redundant noise, while being deluded enough to think that it's going to strike a chord with the "dishonest". See my Person A/Person B example illustrating why you're not elevating the discourse. Or better, yet, read that blog again & try to actually address thepoints about laws this time, instead of just reiterating the same shit.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

I did address the points about laws. What point, specifically, is not addressed by my post?

[AntiBullshitMan]

"What point, specifically, is not addressed?"

If you actually think you refuted my blog, it went over your head.

According to your non-logic, the French Revolution was wrong as the peasants applied FORCE against the nobles who technically didn't initiate it; the nobles just exploited anyone who didn't pop out of a noble vagina. Your simplistic force principle asserts that the *peasants* were in the wrong. That's just 1 point you casually ignored. Not gonna spoon feed my entire blog to you here

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

The Nobles of the French Revolution didn't use force? There were no police or war protecting their arbitrary property? They weren't de-facto states holding a monopoly own the fallacy of "ownership" of land?

"over my head"?

Making metaphorical claims of superiority is much easier than addressing my points, isn't it?

Let me try - I decimated your blog post, paragraph by paragraph, and destroyed it. All that is left are the embarrassing remnants of failure.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"no police or war protecting their arbitrary property?"

You took issue with those who initiate the aggression, not those who use force to protect themselves against the aggressors. The peasants initiated force (the very definition of Revolution) so it's the peasants were in the *wrong* according principles of pure voluntarism.

You said "arbitrary" property. The property was inherited. I assume you're all for unlimited inheritance, as taxing it requires force, so why use the word "arbitrary"?

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

If you inherited slaves, I would consider that arbitrary, too. I don't think land can be owned. ie all land ownership is arbitrary. Feudalism is the most absolutist manifestation of this fallacy.

I see rightful ownership as a relationship between an individual and a product of activity that doesn't violate the principle of non-aggression, such as labor and trade. Claiming ownership of land, whether feudalistic or statist, is arbitrary - producing only threats.

[whedonfreak976]

@AntiBullshitMan by having kids just memorize, they might quote a line from the book, but do they really understand it? that is the important thing, are teachers paid too much? some, if a teacher is not doing their job, then they should not get the pay, get a new teacher a better one, and i also think education is becoming too expensive, free, uh no, but should it be as high as it is in some areas? no, o k, the public sector schools, are being gutted in favor of the more expensive private model

[AntiBullshitMan]

@somecomputergeek

"Let me try - I decimated your blog post, paragraph by paragraph, and destroyed it. All that is left are the embarrassing remnants of failure"

My turn:

I'll huff, and I'll puff... and I'll blow your house down! *times infinity*

[whedonfreak976]

@AntiBullshitMan sorry part 3 so parents can just pay for their kids education, that is the only reason why, and lastly, the only way we are ever gonna solve this over population problem is to teach people well proper sex ed, religion be damned yeah i know my beliefs but i do not let it cloud my judgement, parents complain about there 16 year old knocked up, but they do not want sex ed either, they cannot have it both ways, it does not work that way, at least not from what i have seen done whew

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

I re-watched and re-listened. It's you for 20 minutes struggling to make sense of the inherent contradiction of controlling the cost of "free" education. I thought I'm simplify it for you and remind you that paying for something with threats of violence doesn't mean it's free. It makes things much simpler, show you exactly where the difficulty lies.

If you REALLY want "free" education, think "free" as in free-DOM, and stop FORCING people to pay for a demonstrable failure.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@somecomputergeek "It's you for 20 minutes struggling to make sense of the inherent contradiction of controlling the cost of "free" education"

Quote me. Give me the minute/second of this video where I'm talking about controlling. You have such a strong axe to grind with the fact that laws are enforced, that you drag those insatiable hang-ups onto vids that have nothing to do with it. The title alone here demonstrates your "threats of violence doesn't mean it's free" gripes to be a non-sequitur.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

"Quote me"

The title of your video, for starters. However, I'm not going to sit through your 20 minute rant again, especially if you refuse to address anything I've said.

You're too long-winded. You need to edit your videos down. I'd like to continue this discussion, but not to the point of watching a 20 minute rant (or reading a long blog post) more than I already have, especially if you can't even take the time to understand a 500 character comment.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"title of your video"

You just reaffirmed what I wrote earlier about you having such an axe to grind that the mere use of the words "free education" set you off to the extent where you blindly presume the speaker endorses costly education. According to your 1 dimensional outlook, I'm a theist too since I often say "thank god".

I stressed repeatedly that I'd make info available online because I *don't* believe anyone's entitled to a teacher's service. Context. You fail at basic comprehension.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

I don't have a problem with free education. If you read my blog post, you would have read that I AGREE with you that education should be free. In your video, you talk about the problem acheiving this, that "other people" want to keep teachers around, etc... which unnecessarily increases the cost. My SINGLE COMMENT (before YOU had an emotional reaction) was that this inflexibility was due to HOW education is funded, and you extrapolated from that, then dismissed and insulted me.

[AntiBullshitMan]

"I AGREE with you that education should be free"

Lovely.

I didn't react emotionally to your initial comment (you're the one who's seemingly been humping CAPS LOCK in every other sentence) I replied by pointing out that the comment came off as an unnecessary lecture, so I linked my blog hoping you'd see my proposal on land, as currently States (the tax man) claim ownership on vast amounts on *unused* land, which should be used for total-market experiments, pending enough willing participants.

[somecomputergeek]

@AntiBullshitMan

If you addressed the root cause of the problem of the cost of eduction anywhere in the video (which is coercive taxation, whether you want to admit it or not ), then, yes, it would have been unnecessary.

I addressed the points on your blog post on my blog post.

One the one hand, your asking "why do we need education to be so expensive", and on the other, your saying "pay up, or else", and you don't see the inherent contradiction with this? Really?

[whedonfreak976]

@AntiBullshitMan i know this might sound a little redundant but i think the problem with education really lies in the quality of teachers, i also think that it is the gutting of the public school sector that is tearing at the problem of the education system, and teachers should not just teach kids to memorize, they should learn and study the topic i know, i made it sound simple but at least i am giving solutions, sometimes the best solutions are well simple sigh part 2

[AntiBullshitMan]

"You need to edit your videos down"

No, every word uttered in the video is like a puzzle piece. This is exactly why I asked you to re-watch, because if you're under the impression that certain statements I made here can be edited out without hurt the video contextually, then you're just not paying attention. There are people on this site who speak slowly & whose vids are filled with pauses. Ask them to edit their vids. This one needs no such butchering

Your comments though, are beyond tedious.

[JulianThePhilosopher]

free education means that people who started working early will pay for those who go for higher education. Which means working class people paying for middle class. Higher education is flawed. If everyone has a degree, your degree just does not matter. I have a degree , but since everyone also has it. it makes no difference. We still people to work at mac donalds, sweep the floor, repair air cons.

[Pentazoid111]

What do you mean that upgrading to the "digital world" would require a major overhaul of our public libraries? Currently, digital libraries and traditional libraries currently are coexisting. You have any proof that online education has the largest fail? From my own experience, it has not been a fail for me . I received a better education from video lectures on quantum mechanics online than I did from paying hundreds of dollars for lectures on QM that I ended up failing.

[AntiBullshitMan]

@saaweeet

Any links to those stats? Without examining crucial details of the examples you had in mind, case by case, the results are meaningless. Online courses are currently in their infancy. Very few offer direct one-way ticket pathways to high paying jobs. This stifles students' incentive to stick with them; a burden not imposed on the traditional system you compare it to. If the tables were turned, we wouldn't dismiss the traditional model prior to providing an equal playing field for it.

[exmerion]

@saaweeet there are computers that are being processed that cost about 25 dollars that could be distributed and easily just hooked up to a TV.

[exmerion]

Is this close to what you are talking about?

/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

[AntiBullshitMan]

@exmerion

Thanks for linking that. He nails the "inside-the-box" problem on so many levels. Do you know if there's a follow up video on this... one where he hopefully gets into more detail about the replacement system he has in mind?

[exmerion]

@AntiBullshitMan No sorry but I'm sure you could find it if you go to his website which is in the description.

[exmerion]

@AntiBullshitMan Or you could look at the other videos under the name "Sir Ken Robinson"