Skimming through the below comments, it is reasonable to say that it might even not be in many theists' nature to be reasonable (heh) about handling a discussion about religion, or lack thereof, because of the same level and brand of reasoning they use to believe in their respective deities. This may be broad. Of course, it's still possible to hold a respectful discussion about it if you find the right people to do so with.
What I like about your videos is you don't insult Christians like The Amazing Atheist (though I like his too) and some others. You seem calm and you understand their motivations.
@imshanedulong There's a time and place to insult. Some Christians deserve to be insulted, but they don't deserve it just for being Christians. Most of the people in my circle of immediate family and friends are believers. It does no good to insult them. Their religion on the other hand, should be discussed, dissected, and dismantled point by point.
@GrapplingIgnorance I agree. TAA's videos are more for entertaining atheists than for discussion purposes. Yours are calm and rational and gives us all valid talking points.
cont... Well, to tell you the truth i really just dont care. when everyone is capable of sitting down and talking about it without anyone being accused of anything, then i will care. until then, its all just coming up with theories or ideas, and using them to undermine the other side, to me. Science has its proofs, religious people say they dont need proof. its all noise, and most of it hate talk and thats against MY religion. :) so, there you go. sorry for the long monolog. cont...
cont... They dont see that they are doing exactly what their faith tells them not to do. As long as they are blind to this fact, there will be no reasoning with them. Without reason, is there a point in trying to? Also, i know many people will wonder how can i say all this and still believe in god? Its easy. This is my belief. I believe in God. I live my life as best i know and can, trying to be a good human being. When i die, we will see if i did well. and what about all the theories? cont...
continue... It is my right to believe, but a general, human wrong to enforce any belief on anyone. It really would be great if we could have civil discussions on this subject but extremist on both sides tend to stop that from fear or having themselves proved wrong. Until we all finally realize how to behave as civil, decent human beings, is there really any point in trying to say anything? dont be like christian fanatics. if for no other reason, then for the fact that it is degrading. cont....
continue... Although they are meant to be "good", they end up twisted and almost pure evil. Yes, Roman Catholic church is. in that way, probably the worst. I do not approve of anyone claiming that it is beyond error or that it never faulted. It has. Badly. Still, like Ghandi, i admire the idea of Christianity while claiming that no Christian lives in full accordance to it. I have my stance on God and do not enforce it on anyone. continue....
i watched the vid, read all the comments and enjoyed it quite a bit. I am a Roman Catholic, well i was raised as one. Over time I saw for myself what Church is, has done, is doing. I evaluated everything it gave me and dismissed 90% of it. I believe in God, but in my own personal way. I compared many different faiths and religions (there is a difference) and saw many of their common faults. 99% of the time, they are means to an end of some elite part of the society. Continue...
If christian singles ads keep showing up on atheist videos I will join and mess with the heads of every "good girl" I can find. Plus I look just like jesus so it should be pretty easy or at least fun to show up to a date wearing a robe and sandals draging a cross.
Hey I just wanted to say hi as I've just discovered,like very much & have subscribed to your channel .I would like to know why you choose to stay anonymous though I respect that right.
Behave fairly and maturely? That seems like it would put you at an enormous disadvantage, considering the intrinsic nature of the opposition. Not that you should listen to me. As a lifelong atheist exposed to a Kansas-style profusion of religiosity, my bulwark against becoming unhinged is a self-centredness bordering on sociopathy.
@Snakepliskinist Your point is well founded, but I believe in fighting the good fight, and fighting as fair as I can, given my somewhat unfair advantage of being right.
I always start civilly, but I have no problem making people explain comments that are only relative to theists, such as, "knowing the mind of god." Usually after they stutter the conversation goes downhill, as invariably they either start getting aggravated or stop talking.
I don't agree if you are saying this should be a rule. If you are saying it is the polite and progressive way of discussing, of course you're right.
You have every right to put up your views, words, or lies and not listen to anyone who disagrees, as long as it doesn't violate another law/rule.
A superior tactic for reasonable people who are open to criticism is often just to not give the closed minded the time of day. They'll bury themselves.
@shabido1 I didn't say that you didn't put the word "if." Being that I never mentioned this as some kind of hard and fast rule, there's no reason to consider that as my point.
@moopism The comment exchange above is not a "bitch fight." It's two people having a discussion. Neither of us were rude, insulting or discourteous to the other. I wasn't offended by his comments, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't offended by mine. After our exchange, it's clear we're on the same page, so I don't see the point of your "c'mon guys" plea.
@GrapplingIgnorance "The comment exchange above is not a "bitch fight." It's two people having a discussion. Neither of us were rude, insulting or discourteous to the other.... I don't see the point of your "c'mon guys" plea."
I beg to differ. It took you 4 exchanges over the word "if" to realize you weren't in an argument? Sounds like y'all wanted a fight, hence the c'mon guys.
Sorry peacemaking isn't a respected avocation here. Carry one, girls.
i just like making theist feel like dumb asses by challenging them to pray for powers, and split red sea... or pay for my yugioh cards... lolz. Yeah im 12 i like Yugioh get over it.
Thx for the Video,, very well spoken, its unfortunate but ive been condemed to Hell by a person i thought was a friend, just because i had difference of opinion.... So if you dont get this MSG its do to: "ElectroBiometric protoplasmic eather" between here and Hell where ever that may be.. they blind folded me bfor taking me away....
Grappling. You have the endearing quality of making well reasoned and succinct argument that is both respectful and thought provoking. Keep up the tuition sir.
@Scarzrman888 I wish I could assume some of Grapling's ability wit,words, his song of logic he most headackly bring into my head that I have to sit back & be nothing else awed by his ability's of questioning logical reasoning truth, and his reserve, a brilliant man
I think yes, atheists should be on the offensive. That's not to say we should be "offensive" , just "on" the offensive as I am sure you meant. Everyone deserves a certain amount of friction for their beliefs, because without that friction of disagreement there is too much risk in any belief spiraling out of control. Not everyone will agree on anything, but when those who don't agree stay quiet, big problems are going to appear on the horizon.
some people where handing out bibles at my college, i took one borrowed my friends lighter and lit it on fire in front of them. they freaked out and i told them that if they feel they can hand them out completely oblivious to the fact that there are people out there who are not christian or dont care, i can burn their bible.
I cut all the bullshit and straight out tell them their god is an ASSHOLE!
I mock people who call themselves "Christians" by asking if they deserve to be called that as Jesus had requirements BEFORE they can call themselves Christians in which they don't know since they don't even read their GODdamn bible!!
i love debating religious nuts i go out of my way to find and embaress more and more religious nuts in my community. but im afraid i must stop it'll hurt my chances of becoming a police officecer. what im saying is that its time we started cracking these nuts and exposing them to the truth im about 95% sure god doesn't exist and thats still an A in school
When I was a bartender we had a ball bat under the counter for when the Bartender Rule broke down. The bartender rule is to never allow a conversation to get too deep or better yet not even be started, over politics and religion. I now use the same rule for my MMO game FFXI. They can talk about it in private chat but not group chat. Saves me from having a huge pain in the ass.
Dictators and religion have highjacked the sanity of humanity long enough; it is time to rout the disease and find its cure...the truth of reason over imagination. Old ways for old times, and new ways for new times. Death sets each new generation free to evolve, to mature, and to learn, but only if we understand our fore-fathers were apes and before then fish, so that we can accept the need for change.
So, should Atheists be on the offensive? Consider a climate where it is safe to run for office and bash homosexuals, who are openly serving, and require school-prayer to a mythological god. God has no plan they do, so in whose agenda do we trust of our representatives? Is Being in charge no longer enough for our leaders? So now, they want to be God's-Will over Lawmaking...fulfilling the self love that is at the bases of this megalomaniacal delusion of self-importance!
Belief in god is a relationship with one's own split personality where god is an image of projected-self that is loved by the self same believer. It is a psychological relationship equal to a surrogate marriage. The preacher is the facilitator to the delusional relationship. The church is the reinforcing community or cult that offers and demands belief to further make a reality of the delusion in support of the cult that preys on horde psychology. Zombies are walking the earth destroying minds.
@GrapplingIgnorance Truth, with humility - but after viewing most of your videos, I personally concede that you probably are right. I am however willing to lend a critical ear.
@GrapplingIgnorance If the majority approves, then it might as well be. (not that I think so personally, but try getting one person to disagree with an army of people)
If I thought I could find a better doctor, I would, but he's much better than most doctors I've been too. Doctors, other than shrinks tend to be more likely to be theists than other people with their level of education, so I'll just deal with my doctor having an imaginary friend though I wish he wasn't so obvious about it.
Two smiling, friendly, attractive young ladies approached me on the street one day and asked, "Do you believe you're going to Heaven?" I was on my way to work and didn't have time for a theological debate, so I just said, "Yes." To which they responded that I was mistaken because everyone is going to burn in hell except for a chosen few, making it clear they had decided I was one of the doomed. Nice of them. I don't humor religious freaks anymore. Now I argue with them for their own good.
You sir, are a gentlemen and a scholar. You are an incredible human being for the deep intellect and thought you show and put into your videos. Thank you.
I am sorry to be so bitter to a bunch of hoodlums that swarm in packs, how many must die, tortured, abused, under there religion, I say let the fucking POPE and his thugs stand before a world court and be judged like the criminals they are and be burned at the stake,like they did to the millions of people they did it to.fuck respect of their.point it has gone to far.I have given them respect & dignity they spit on me. I will not have it no more enough is enough with this bulling shit A Fuck MEN
I'm one of those people who would never just go out on a whim and be critical or dedicate any of my time to debating about something if it was not in response to a claim or discussion first made by someone I know/met...long sentence. lol. Most of the vids I make are in response to events in my life. My "Are Animals Atheists?" video was a recollection of a convo I had w/ my Mom. My Gay Agenda video was in response to homophobic comments by my cousins...etc.It's always in response usually. :D
@fruitikay Mine are similar. One of youtube's functions for me is to allow me to vent frustrations with individuals in my personal life while addressing many more people who hold that view outside of my personal life.
just a thought,kinda give them back what they have giving every one else in the past.I look at it.remember what you did to my great great grand parents,you called them a witch&burned them at the town post.they need to repent there sins.well how about you have to pay up for all the cruel shit you have done to mankind, "SCUMBAG" if there was a GOD your ass be fucked for doing this nasty shit to one of his creations,oh He works in mysteries ways he made me&now pray see if he gives a shit about you
I also do not agree with you that they give two shits what you I think.they are more in this zone where they are compel to have you convert like some points on a game show you mater less the conversion process is more important.I feel it will be a long time before this thinking will become a certified malignant mental cancer of sadistic cruelty or lacking social morality & individuality respect which they completely have no re guard for, I say shoot them on the spot let them go to Jessa PTL FT
I find that they almost always take it as an insult and offensive and never want to talk my side I am done with this kind of behavior I am 62 years old and feed up with the form of bulling expressed from these religious freaks I call them they are not normal, they are arrogant and demeaning, and complete liars, and Hippocrates. so I have no sympathy for them. and when they come at me with their bullshit. I want equal terms which almost never happens, I feel I am in some crazy insane asylum
I tend to agree. The idea of "mature proselytization" brought up in the video seems, as regards religion, to be an oxymoron. Inherent in religion is the idea of believing without question. Without recourse to reason, theists often resort to repetition, volume, and interruption.
There are those who don't behave this way, but not many. Repeatedly begging the question of god's existence is the m.o.
@infideluxe ah you kinda used words out of side my sil-a-bol? count, I am told I am a genius & complete idiot.I do not know what certain words mean Genius?,"mature proselytization", oxymoron, I seam to live in a different world,Than most people, I look at things in terms of math,logic,English language has been greatly brutal to me,I say things in the best way I can,plaster is not an unknown product to me in its healing ability, but dental floss has& will be a vague concept in my mind
I felt I needed to explain why I have piste some people off lately.I can not believe in what I can not see,or obtain the necessary equipment to do so.But I can how ever make an exception when speaking to a person realize & appreciate intelligence, & reasoning with logic, which I do not find in most Catholics. I was born in Belgium,church on ever corner, came to use at 5 went to hell for 5 years gave up Christianity, I proved there was no GOD, 62 now still no GOD, but 3 more hells
I own business since 16,I build excellently,I suck at business,women,friends,cooking,kissing ass,listening to BS,I get people working for me make.they treat me like some kinda of god,mental brain,legend,all kinds of BS,I ask them how or why you feel that,you have eyes,brain,body parts,can you not see & figure out what you see,then decide & process your actions, while reasoning the results of your actions,continual reevaluating the results to desired end goals
they do not feel they can do anything, I make them bring 110% I pushed them to 150%,I take no priors,failures, I learned from the masters of each trade I set out to learn,along came their personnel wealth of knowledge, its the process we use to learn I am interested in & how the fuck did we get to this point in time.fire, metal plating 5k yag we put copper on steel,2 story structures,flushing toilets, sewer system,& no weapons,No army,no torture, what happened? Peru's Caral
My problem with theists arises when they start trying to talk science when it is patently obvious they are speaking from a position of extreme ignorance. I did not go through many years of poverty putting myself through university and my PhD to silently have "science" flippantly disregarded by the wilfully ignorant.
"silently have "science" flippantly disregarded by the wilfully ignorant."
I agree.
To add insult to injury, their "scientific" claims then require that we find their sources and pinpoint their errors, which often takes time and effort. Investigative work can be fun to a point, but there seems to be an increase in the amount of pseudoscientific "studies" being presented as legitimate. Bullshit detectors need to be on their highest setting.
My doctor keeps talking about God and it annoys the hell out of me. I don't think he'd take well to me telling him that his imaginary friend doesn't exist, but I don't find hearing fairy tales from my doctor reassuring.
I've seen a few complaints that atheists are hypocrites because they're too preachy, "the very thing the have a problem with". That's only hypocrisy if a given atheist complains about proselytizing, and being a theist or atheist doesn't determine that. Many atheists don't mind hearing preaching; many theists do. It's that resistance to open discussion that bothers people like us, and some people who are otherwise open-minded put up walls because it feels wrong to hear their faith criticized.
Grapplingignorance, you have amazing points and you speak eloquently. I feel that if more people watched your videos (whether atheist or otherwise), the world would be a more understanding and intelligent place. If I knew you in real life we would be great friends =). Best of luck improving the world, you have my support!
@TheQuiescentSquall Thank you for those kind words- hopefully the work I do here does have a positive effect on enough people to make a significant difference.
As long as people keep religion out of schools, government, out of my face, and out of my vagina, there are welcome to their stupid beliefs. *shrugs* If not, I have a problem with them.
My gripe is similar to morgannicregor's. But I am not content to be simply left alone because religion has played a huge role in denying equality to gay people. Its encroachment upon politics breaches church-state separation, and has done during the entirety of my life so far.
I see it as an ongoing battle (as a gay guy) with theists. I do not spend all my time battling religion (I do have a life), but when I do, I have very little patience for their question-begging b.s.
While I'd hate to take away someone's right to openly say what they believe, I am disgusted on how many Christians say whatever they want, expect to be respected and even applauded for it yet how would they react if a person from a different religion with different god(s) expressed their beliefs in public in the same fashion?
I'm happy to spend much of my living time in a country where, though there are a significant number of Christians, Christianity itself has a very poor image. Even Christians often are embarrassed about it. The current president didn't help things either. Where am I? South Korea.
As always, very interesting. I've met several people who demand that they not be scrutinized for publicly preaching hell fire and damnation. This is of course ludicrous and will also be challenged, how can they think that telling someone they are worthy of eternal torture for just being born isn't insulting and yet a simple statement of 'I don't believe in your deity' is insulting? Hippocrates.
Good points. I know if I didn't want any negative feedback on my political videos, I'd disable the comments or I would keep quiet about them. People who proselytize should expect some feedback or keep it to themselves.
I'm with MyGodTheresNoGod. The belief in the sacred causes offence no matter what is said critical of God. So to hell with the sacred!
I treat religion as I do a football game. They are the New Orleans Saints and we are the Detroit Lions. Darwin has ushered in the 2 minute warning and DNA has pushed them back to their goal line.
All they have left are a series of "hail mary" passes.
They have had 3000 years of their "offence"
Now we have them right where we want them. Scrambling and desperate.
@parallelsdumaurier I respectfully disagree with you.I hate to say it but we’re far from having the religious on the run.It may appear to be that way in social media but it isn’t so in reality.Also at the core of monotheistic religions is this “them vs. us” mentality that has been very divisive for humanity & that’s exactly how you come across with this football game analogy. MyGodTheresNoGod pretty much stated to assault people’s sacred beliefs & they’ll eventually get desensitized to it.Cont..
@parallelsdumaurier Cont… That is not a wise strategy in dealing with religion. Christians for example expect to be mocked, ridiculed, and even persecuted for their faith because that’s exactly what Bible teaches them will happen when they follow Christ. So when some atheists use mockery as their primary way of challenging Christians, they view that as a validation of what the Bible teaches. This in turn causes them to cling to their faith rather then question it.
Well, you know, religious people are atheistic towards other religions. Since I'm an all around atheist, I never have to justify my claim. But watching religious people justify their atheism, after bashing me, is pretty funny.
@AliceinCalifornia It's interesting to meet bisexual/homosexual catholics, given the typical strictness against that orientation in the Catholic religion. Moderate theists don't bother me much though, so if it works for you, congratulations. Keep it up.
Reasonable people must continue to laugh at and scorn Christianity and other superstitions. For unless these willful delusions recieve enough ridicule, some will deem them an alternative to reality.
Its amazing all the trivial shit ppl thank god for. I mean really god does not process your job application, god does not grant you favor in a sporting event, he'll, god does nothing at all....
Youtuber AntonTheSpot asked in his video, link below, if and how modern Atheists should engage theists. He wants opinions for if it's just best to just sit back and let the believers sit back and just live submerged in their happy lives of delusions and if toss them a photation device of rationality are we being any better than they would be to attempt the injection of their religious faith into our lives? It's a good question in a large part because it shows a concern for avoiding hypocrisy.
2 I would guess that most Atheists are content to just be left alone and have no interest in debating or arguing over religious matters. Especially as long as people aren't proselytising on their doorsteps. They have no interest in going out of their way to do the exact thing they hope theist won't do to them. As a result many of those Atheists just don't bother to present any resistance to the overwhelming rush of theistic propaganda around them.
3 Depending on their community it usually doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. Here's where I stand on the matter. I don't have a problem with people being public about what they believe and why they believe it. In fact, I'm all for the greatest transparency possible about what the people around me believe and their explanations for why. The problems lie in how that expression has been done and the lack of open or honest discussion in response to it.
4 Teaching children that what you take in faith is factually true and having them stand in a public place to hand out literature advertising that the people they give it to will burn forever unless they accept Jesus, which is something that recently happened to me, does not fit my idea of healthy proselytization. However, if you wish to stand in a public square or post videos on a public website talking about what you personally believe and why than I'm all for it.
5 Provided that you are able to accept and consider honest scrutiny and criticism from those willing to offer it. The problem, from my perspective, is that religion in particular has been given so much of a free pass on such abrasive concepts as threatening eternal hellfire for disagreeing with it for so long that it almost seems impolite to publicly challenge it. It almost seems that religion gets the loudest public microphone, that just doesn't seem fair to me.
6 The result has been that those speaking out on religious matters or who have attached a religious rider onto their message have been spoiled with a false sense of entitlement. Now when they publicly talk about their god sending all the sinners of this world to a fiery pit for their infinite punishment and someone dares to oppose them many of them actually get offended by the person who stood up against what they were saying and that is where the public discussion really breaks down.
7 We get so swamped with fussing over who has the right to tell things to whom that we talk past each other and we miss one another’s message completely. It's considered a general rule of polite behavior to never discuss religion or politics because those are muddy issues that people tend to take very personally and unless both sides of the discussion are on strict agreement on all points discussed the danger of the conversation becoming a heated argument increases.
8 In the interest of real progress we need to talk to each other and listen to each other on the matters we consider important. Most christians who approach me to tell me that I'm going to hell if I don't accept Jesus aren't doing it because they hope to insult or offend me. They do it because they think they're saving me. So it's my job in that instance to listen to what they have to say and ask clear and open questions based on what they've told me. After doing so comes the important part.
9 They have to be willing to hear all my arguments against their position with composure and control equal to mine. If they aren't able to fulfill that last requirement they never should have approached me to make their points in the first place. If they aren't capable of even considering any error in their position, let alone having it explained to them, they aren't interested in actual dialogue and therefore their statements don't deserve public air.
10 The same concept applies to posting beliefs on public forums. I should be free to post a Youtube video explaining why I believe in leprechauns and warning people that are viewing it who don't that they might be missing out on their fair opportunities for pots of gold. However, for me to expect people's audience I better be willing to listen to and consider the comments and video responses voicing their arguments against what I believe. Provided they're giving more than just insults.
11 So in short, AntonTheSpot, coming on Youtube to present your arguments against an absurdity which you see most people being guilty of or to argue against those who have come here to support that absurdity is absolutely fine. As long as you're willing to behave fairly and maturely on both sides of the discussion.
@greycloud24 the atheist understands the theist. It is a psychological phenomena. I think most anthropologists are atheistic. religion is a phenomena among humans. except for tribes like the Piraha tribe who live skeptically en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people there is a space between the org
Religion is responsible for the crusades, the inquisition, the indoctrination of children & adults, the killing of infidels, the suppression of knowledge, women, minorities, & natural instincts, promoting pedophilia, child-marriage, jihad, animal-cruelty, racism, sexism, genital mutilation, homophobia, anti-semitism, the middle east conflicts, suicide bombers, terrorism, slavery, etc.
Religion should always be debated and kept in check, the moderate isnt the problem but the extremist to any degree.
Historically speaking religion trying to keep power has caused many wars (and still causes alot of killing, Northern Irelands catholics vs protestants for example) is a prime reason to constantly be on the "attack" in the debate, because if we dont, then the extremists (lets be honest and fair, its a big group in that nowadays for christians) will get to a point of strength again
and just cause alot more suffering for the people they hatemonger about like in the US for example the gays and the left wing get a hell of alot of whack from the christian right and centrists alot of the time, if the US had proper education systems (which religous try to stop alot of the time now) then there wouldnt be such rampant homophobia or racism, but also less belief, and thus, it gets hit hard to keep all that, which also sadly stops the advancing of the people
Atheists complain to me about a lack of discourse with Christians and yet who is it that I tend to get the most rude comments from? Atheists. Although I keep my channel open to all, and do talk with the atheists who contact me do atheists even look into what people like me believe in? I do look into and read and listen to whatever any atheists sends me, yet I do not see the same for the atheist community. Again, mainly hostile comments.
@jfrontier1 Actually, iirc there was several studies done (iirc TAA has a vid about it not sure though) that atheists in general know more about other religions more then their followers especially when it comes to christianity in the western world.
Also, i gotta say as a bisexual, generally the christians aint to kind to me lol, at the least are alot worse to me then i (or most atheists i know/call friends at least and many comments i see and read) would be too them.
@MitchofSmeg The Pew research center for religious studies did a survey and asked questions about faith in general and about specific faiths also. I know the study well since I taught a class in church about it (and gave the questions as part of the class). I did well on the test (as a minister I expect I should be at least familar with what others think and believe.
If Christians are treating you poorly I see it as their problem. I do not teat people poorly for what they do (sexual orination)
Hey, yeah i see it as their problem too for most time time (although alot of it is hurtful i have thick skin nowadays) and glad to meet a christian who isnt like that, always nice to see :)
Like i said not all do just from my look of it, btw its not about god not existing, but more on the whole "creationism vs evolution" debate type thing how alot of creationist will for example say "theres no transitional fossils and i wont believe no matter what..." etc
@MitchofSmeg As a Christian I see no need to be hateful toward anyone. I speak with and try to council young gay people who are christians. Again, just something I do.
Since I believ that genesis is allegorical I see the YEC types as mistranslating the ideas of Genesis. I have a couple of videos on the subject of Gen.
I argue with the YEC types because I do not think they properly show or understand God's love.
Thats the most of it really, not so much "there is no god" but when genuine problems are brought up like creation vs evo, or problems in say the bible or quran or how they personally look at it alot of the time (from my exp) enough of them will go into a defencive stance and be unwilling to accept anything which is as you will likely agree, sad, because they choose to not learn (for example, many believe that all muslim nations have and require sharia that i meet)
@MitchofSmeg What I try to do is simply have discussions with people. The type of apologetics/ministry I do is more relational. I care about what people think and hope to learn from others as they can learn from me. I do not agree with anything of athiesm but I am not required to. We can disagree without being disagreeable, right?
I mean i have all the respect for their belief, but its just mind boggling how many dont even know about things in the old testament or the new, dont know how the bible was even made or its history, too many are willing to forget it and try to change it (not the majority but the majority seems to let them). I love to chat with christians who know what they are on about though, because it gets to be a really good descussion alot of the time with learning for both sides.
@MitchofSmeg During seminary I really enjoyed textual criticism classes. And I do agree that many Christians know very little about the Bible, however many athiests no just as little. Not to seem rude but many athiests just read things from infedels (dot org) and think that is enough. I try to look into the ideas of those who disagree with me, I ask that others do the same for me.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to further this conversation. My channel is always open. Happy New Year.
@jfrontier1 as far as i can tell, most of the "hate" towards religion from the atheist community that i see is just simply that they had enough of being polite to people who either cant or more often wont accept anything they are told or shown facts for and cling to their faith as a child to their stuffed teddy (not saying all do, just in the cases i find the most hostility coming up) which sucks really, i agree that when its there it isnt acceptable from either side though.
@MitchofSmeg See, here is the problem. What facts are people like me being shown that I (we) can not accept? Show me any evidence you have for God not being real and I would be happy to look at it. Many people tell me there are facts for God's nonexistence, but where is it?
My channel is always open, anyone at any time can contact me about whatever they choose to.
Yes, it is to bad when anyone attacks rudly, as I see on this post.
@jfrontier1 for example the whole evolution "argument", many creationists just simply wont accept the proof they ask for when its presented too them and say silly things like "when i see a monkey give birth to a human i will believe" which would simply put evolution out the window as wrong.
Thats the times i will generally just insult a creationist for example, because they simply just refuse to talk sense and its easier for me to insult back when they insult me for being bi.
@jfrontier1 The average christian thinks I deserve to be tortured for eternity, for the crime of not believing a particular story, and that a god who would do this / allow this to happen is the greatest possible good. Sometimes, I get a little bit testy about this.
@Sines314 Since I am not the average Christian I do not say that to anyone. And when people say that to me (if I do not follow their views on God) then I try to politly try to talk to them. Dogmatic views on whatever topic do not impress me. All I ask is that if you can show me either a better way to look at whatever you believe in or why I am wrong to believe. I get testy as well with certain believers but I do try to talk to others as I would like to be spoken to. Fair enough?
@jfrontier1 Most atheists who actually put up material (As compared to the average atheist in the comments section, who tend to vary a lot more) are civil and at least try to be open to other people's opinions.
I know plenty who can talk polite, even when they're well past the point where they have every right to stop. For all the crap he gets, Dawkins is polite to a fault, and Seth (The Thinking Atheist) is more sympathetic to theists than most atheists. Check them out.
@jfrontier1 As I said in this video, people on both ends of the discussion need to be fair and mature in order for the conversation to get anywhere. People on both ends of this particular issue have been guilty.
@GrapplingIgnorance I do enjoy conversations or discussion instead of debates. And while I do agree I do see a few people on this chat have to curse and say other things that do not seem polite or respectful. I can disagree without being disagreeable. I do not think that is to much to ask of others.
@fablan6 I believe in lots of things. I beieve the Bible is the most important book ever written by man (yes, I said that right). I believe that kittens are cute. I believe that some people are nice and others are not. I believe in having a nice discussion on a wide variety of topics to include matters of faith I believe in freedom of speech and religion. Is that what you wanted to know?
@jfrontier1 You said the bible is the most important book ever written. Why? Why is it the bible and not the quran or the turah or lord of the rings? There are some very horrific and bad stuff written in it like, how god hates gays, under what circumstances to kill your wife, how much to pay in order to buy a woman from her father in case you raped her etc. Now you will say yes but there are also good things in it. Well, what if I say that I love you but I think you should die too? Is that nice?
@fablan6 Because the Bible has changed the world for the better. God does not hate gays, that is a poor translation of the text. I do not say no there are good things in it, I try to show the progressive nature of the Bible and try to show that the Bible is simply a series of writings that show the way people looked at God in terms of the context of the writing, political system, cultural sytem (etc.).
@jfrontier1 What do you mean "thanks for proving my point!"? Did you understand what I said?
Also you believe that the bible is the most important book ever written by man and that god does not hate gays and whoever says that it's because of a poor translation of the text. Can you explain this to me then please?
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
I suppose what I see as a problem is that often I get rather absurd personal attacks from the atheist community (and on occasion the Christian one as well). Simply expressing an opinion that I think of atheism in general will get me the usual F*ck off type comments. I see it as the atheists who often do not, or can not behave in a civil manner. As of now I see a comment by a self proclaimed anti-theist who is "offensively on the offensive". Would this person be willing to talk civilly?
@jfrontier1 Just to be clear- you get those attacks from individual member of the atheist community- you don't get them from the community as a whole, or even the majority of it. That's an important distinction to be drawn.
@GrapplingIgnorance Fair enough. However a general statement is OK to make to prove a point. Many atheists tell me some awfult hings and I have also read some negative comments on this post. I do make distinctions to the type of person who contact me, as some people are just rude, their faith does not matter to that.
So will people actually try to listen to others thoughts and opinions in terms of faith?
@jfrontier1 Generally speaking, if you're on the internet, it doesn't matter what the topic is or which side of it you fall on or they fall on. You will ALWAYS have a few morons writing nothing but useless insults and there to stir up trouble.
The trick is to filter out the spammers and trolls and find yourself the real deals on both sides.
@DeadlyChinchilla I do agree. I think my point was that as a man of faith I do hear from both the atheist and theist sides rude statements. My point is to listen to what others have to say in a polite way. However just seeing what some people have stated (the F* type comments) only proves my point.
@jfrontier1 I like this rhetoric you display, would you consider the stoning of a person for talking about Mohammad being civil or even respecting my home by knocking on my door to tell me the earth quakes are from GOD.always your side when do I exist in this session, when is my civil feelings consider I am so sick of this I say bring the bullshit on lets level the playing field let me torture your family in the name of you do not mater anymore when I am done we can break bread
@jfrontier1 I am sorry I am getting to think I should stop speaking for I am getting to feel or see I should only dwell in construction and stay the hell away from trying to communicate cause I suck at it, people are far smarter than I can ever dream I am going to keep my mouth shut.sorry I have confused you.I do not know.it seams I will never know, I tried.I screwed up I should have gone to school and gave English language critical attention,sorry I will not bother you 62 to late
fellowship? sounds like religion I am an atheist,I find that religion is pure poison, thinking a GOD or superior being exist in today's times is insulting,Youtube gives me a tremendous incite of what I have missed in life.there is a bill in congress that is about to treating that freedom, so at any moment,so I will not be able to look shit up on growing and testing algae,school is out of the question I teach my
self.I am design 20 Algae green house's 100ftx400ft @200 reactors ea
I should not be bothering anyone I am sorry,I do not want to be annoying or sound stupid,I am in a f rm for weeks at a time & I get lonely.&lose sense on how to communicate. the ones I do,super smart I have to be careful when I speak to them,they seam to freak out from the question's I ask,they listen to every word I say,very pressuring.especially with my idea on how to ask,I feel I am allotted Hugh freedom from language ability,& they compensate. its a bubble I am in
@AngstromJohnny I am not calling you stupid or anything bad, I simply do not uderstand what you are saying. I ask that you clarify your points. If this is not a good forum for you, you are more than welcome to send me a PM.
youtube com watch CB2XlpD-Ld4 will give you an Idea what I asked you, I am not looking for a degree in education either just the name of the discipline so I can go down that road,
he speaks of prof but I do not know how to spell the names he use's and spell check asks me if I am insane so,, I felt I needed to at least try to clear things up with you . or explain my self thanks I will go they are blowing up the neighbor hood its 12/31/2011 12:05
Skimming through the below comments, it is reasonable to say that it might even not be in many theists' nature to be reasonable (heh) about handling a discussion about religion, or lack thereof, because of the same level and brand of reasoning they use to believe in their respective deities. This may be broad. Of course, it's still possible to hold a respectful discussion about it if you find the right people to do so with.
lhorlogerie 1 week ago
What I like about your videos is you don't insult Christians like The Amazing Atheist (though I like his too) and some others. You seem calm and you understand their motivations.
imshanedulong 3 weeks ago 2
@imshanedulong There's a time and place to insult. Some Christians deserve to be insulted, but they don't deserve it just for being Christians. Most of the people in my circle of immediate family and friends are believers. It does no good to insult them. Their religion on the other hand, should be discussed, dissected, and dismantled point by point.
GrapplingIgnorance 3 weeks ago 4
@GrapplingIgnorance I agree. TAA's videos are more for entertaining atheists than for discussion purposes. Yours are calm and rational and gives us all valid talking points.
imshanedulong 3 weeks ago
cont... also, sorry for any misspelling. English is not my native tongue. looking forward to your comments. good night.
ivanlukacevic1987 1 month ago
cont... Well, to tell you the truth i really just dont care. when everyone is capable of sitting down and talking about it without anyone being accused of anything, then i will care. until then, its all just coming up with theories or ideas, and using them to undermine the other side, to me. Science has its proofs, religious people say they dont need proof. its all noise, and most of it hate talk and thats against MY religion. :) so, there you go. sorry for the long monolog. cont...
ivanlukacevic1987 1 month ago
cont... They dont see that they are doing exactly what their faith tells them not to do. As long as they are blind to this fact, there will be no reasoning with them. Without reason, is there a point in trying to? Also, i know many people will wonder how can i say all this and still believe in god? Its easy. This is my belief. I believe in God. I live my life as best i know and can, trying to be a good human being. When i die, we will see if i did well. and what about all the theories? cont...
ivanlukacevic1987 1 month ago
continue... It is my right to believe, but a general, human wrong to enforce any belief on anyone. It really would be great if we could have civil discussions on this subject but extremist on both sides tend to stop that from fear or having themselves proved wrong. Until we all finally realize how to behave as civil, decent human beings, is there really any point in trying to say anything? dont be like christian fanatics. if for no other reason, then for the fact that it is degrading. cont....
ivanlukacevic1987 1 month ago
continue... Although they are meant to be "good", they end up twisted and almost pure evil. Yes, Roman Catholic church is. in that way, probably the worst. I do not approve of anyone claiming that it is beyond error or that it never faulted. It has. Badly. Still, like Ghandi, i admire the idea of Christianity while claiming that no Christian lives in full accordance to it. I have my stance on God and do not enforce it on anyone. continue....
ivanlukacevic1987 1 month ago
i watched the vid, read all the comments and enjoyed it quite a bit. I am a Roman Catholic, well i was raised as one. Over time I saw for myself what Church is, has done, is doing. I evaluated everything it gave me and dismissed 90% of it. I believe in God, but in my own personal way. I compared many different faiths and religions (there is a difference) and saw many of their common faults. 99% of the time, they are means to an end of some elite part of the society. Continue...
ivanlukacevic1987 1 month ago
If christian singles ads keep showing up on atheist videos I will join and mess with the heads of every "good girl" I can find. Plus I look just like jesus so it should be pretty easy or at least fun to show up to a date wearing a robe and sandals draging a cross.
wanabyastick 1 month ago 5
@wanabyastick LOL there is a muslin dating add on - free them from oppression as well.
faircompetition1 4 weeks ago
Hey I just wanted to say hi as I've just discovered,like very much & have subscribed to your channel .I would like to know why you choose to stay anonymous though I respect that right.
bigjustin69er 1 month ago
@bigjustin69er Search youtube for my user name and click the first video you see.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 month ago 9
Behave fairly and maturely? That seems like it would put you at an enormous disadvantage, considering the intrinsic nature of the opposition. Not that you should listen to me. As a lifelong atheist exposed to a Kansas-style profusion of religiosity, my bulwark against becoming unhinged is a self-centredness bordering on sociopathy.
Snakepliskinist 1 month ago
@Snakepliskinist Your point is well founded, but I believe in fighting the good fight, and fighting as fair as I can, given my somewhat unfair advantage of being right.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 month ago
I always start civilly, but I have no problem making people explain comments that are only relative to theists, such as, "knowing the mind of god." Usually after they stutter the conversation goes downhill, as invariably they either start getting aggravated or stop talking.
k7leetha 1 month ago
I don't agree if you are saying this should be a rule. If you are saying it is the polite and progressive way of discussing, of course you're right.
You have every right to put up your views, words, or lies and not listen to anyone who disagrees, as long as it doesn't violate another law/rule.
A superior tactic for reasonable people who are open to criticism is often just to not give the closed minded the time of day. They'll bury themselves.
You don't have to be fair about it at all.
shabido1 1 month ago
@shabido1 When did I say this should be a rule?
GrapplingIgnorance 1 month ago
@GrapplingIgnorance When did I not write the word 'if'?
shabido1 1 month ago
@shabido1 I didn't say that you didn't put the word "if." Being that I never mentioned this as some kind of hard and fast rule, there's no reason to consider that as my point.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 month ago
@GrapplingIgnorance You didn't say either way so I included both possibilities; you did think it should be a rule or you did not.
Since you don't think it should be a rule, and I agreed with you that being the case, I'm not sure where the concern is...
I was honestly unsure of what to consider regarding how firmly you stood on your point. Now I know, and still agree with you.
shabido1 1 month ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Hilarious, a bitch fight on a video about what polite rules of engagment are..... c'mon guys.
moopism 1 month ago
@moopism The comment exchange above is not a "bitch fight." It's two people having a discussion. Neither of us were rude, insulting or discourteous to the other. I wasn't offended by his comments, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't offended by mine. After our exchange, it's clear we're on the same page, so I don't see the point of your "c'mon guys" plea.
GrapplingIgnorance 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@GrapplingIgnorance "The comment exchange above is not a "bitch fight." It's two people having a discussion. Neither of us were rude, insulting or discourteous to the other.... I don't see the point of your "c'mon guys" plea."
I beg to differ. It took you 4 exchanges over the word "if" to realize you weren't in an argument? Sounds like y'all wanted a fight, hence the c'mon guys.
Sorry peacemaking isn't a respected avocation here. Carry one, girls.
moopism 1 month ago
Well put
laxpaint 2 months ago
sir you should go out in public and add some serious sense in to people like dawkins and harris is doing and i think that your a good debater
cronus6282 2 months ago in playlist Atheism
i just like making theist feel like dumb asses by challenging them to pray for powers, and split red sea... or pay for my yugioh cards... lolz. Yeah im 12 i like Yugioh get over it.
homefrontftw2 2 months ago
Nice one GI. ...I'd love to hear the story of the Christian whom comfronted you and said you were going to burn in hell. How'd that turn out? ;-)
dstachon2002 2 months ago
@dstachon2002 Some like it hot? just joking
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
Thx for the Video,, very well spoken, its unfortunate but ive been condemed to Hell by a person i thought was a friend, just because i had difference of opinion.... So if you dont get this MSG its do to: "ElectroBiometric protoplasmic eather" between here and Hell where ever that may be.. they blind folded me bfor taking me away....
karlbuttler 2 months ago
Cogent - thank you.
ThinkingSpeck 2 months ago
Grappling. You have the endearing quality of making well reasoned and succinct argument that is both respectful and thought provoking. Keep up the tuition sir.
Scarzrman888 2 months ago
@Scarzrman888 I wish I could assume some of Grapling's ability wit,words, his song of logic he most headackly bring into my head that I have to sit back & be nothing else awed by his ability's of questioning logical reasoning truth, and his reserve, a brilliant man
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
yeah, what he said.
KingHeathen 2 months ago
I tried the thing with your videos and porn once. I had trouble paying attention to the porn.
Bazement258Studios 2 months ago
Fanaticism on either side (or any side) sounds the same- angry noise.
mortygirly 2 months ago
pink condom talking
selfsenter 2 months ago
I think yes, atheists should be on the offensive. That's not to say we should be "offensive" , just "on" the offensive as I am sure you meant. Everyone deserves a certain amount of friction for their beliefs, because without that friction of disagreement there is too much risk in any belief spiraling out of control. Not everyone will agree on anything, but when those who don't agree stay quiet, big problems are going to appear on the horizon.
123backinyerface 2 months ago
some people where handing out bibles at my college, i took one borrowed my friends lighter and lit it on fire in front of them. they freaked out and i told them that if they feel they can hand them out completely oblivious to the fact that there are people out there who are not christian or dont care, i can burn their bible.
dragnipurake678 2 months ago
I cut all the bullshit and straight out tell them their god is an ASSHOLE!
I mock people who call themselves "Christians" by asking if they deserve to be called that as Jesus had requirements BEFORE they can call themselves Christians in which they don't know since they don't even read their GODdamn bible!!
Nostalgicvideos 2 months ago
I just found where Occam sharpens his blade... Bravo again GI...
Acrimonator 2 months ago
Christians stand outside my school and hand out bibles =( and the school tells us there there if we want
tedhays 2 months ago
i love debating religious nuts i go out of my way to find and embaress more and more religious nuts in my community. but im afraid i must stop it'll hurt my chances of becoming a police officecer. what im saying is that its time we started cracking these nuts and exposing them to the truth im about 95% sure god doesn't exist and thats still an A in school
bahamasartits 2 months ago
3am.... long words.... brain does not comprehend
solution: add to "watch later" list.
AvocadoCake 2 months ago
When I was a bartender we had a ball bat under the counter for when the Bartender Rule broke down. The bartender rule is to never allow a conversation to get too deep or better yet not even be started, over politics and religion. I now use the same rule for my MMO game FFXI. They can talk about it in private chat but not group chat. Saves me from having a huge pain in the ass.
kelliko70 2 months ago
YES.
As the beastie boys said: "you gotta FIGHT, for your RIGHT, to PAAAAAAARTY" :D
Yahweigh 2 months ago
Dictators and religion have highjacked the sanity of humanity long enough; it is time to rout the disease and find its cure...the truth of reason over imagination. Old ways for old times, and new ways for new times. Death sets each new generation free to evolve, to mature, and to learn, but only if we understand our fore-fathers were apes and before then fish, so that we can accept the need for change.
JusticeIsWhere 2 months ago
@JusticeIsWhere
"the truth of reason over imagination."
I get your meaning, though I would reword "truth of reason over myth-as-reality."
Imagination is necessary for creativity.
infideluxe 2 months ago
@infideluxe Thank you, I like that much better. Mythology purported as reality is the problem.
JusticeIsWhere 2 months ago
So, should Atheists be on the offensive? Consider a climate where it is safe to run for office and bash homosexuals, who are openly serving, and require school-prayer to a mythological god. God has no plan they do, so in whose agenda do we trust of our representatives? Is Being in charge no longer enough for our leaders? So now, they want to be God's-Will over Lawmaking...fulfilling the self love that is at the bases of this megalomaniacal delusion of self-importance!
JusticeIsWhere 2 months ago
well said bro. keep up the gud wrk
DAVIADAVID 2 months ago
Belief in god is a relationship with one's own split personality where god is an image of projected-self that is loved by the self same believer. It is a psychological relationship equal to a surrogate marriage. The preacher is the facilitator to the delusional relationship. The church is the reinforcing community or cult that offers and demands belief to further make a reality of the delusion in support of the cult that preys on horde psychology. Zombies are walking the earth destroying minds.
JusticeIsWhere 2 months ago
0 dislikes
FLAWLESS VICTORY!!
camobeast100 2 months ago 9
@camobeast100 Far too early for that, and approval doesn't make me right.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago 40
@GrapplingIgnorance I know, I was referencing to your earlier video about how your ''teach the controversy'' video still had 0 dislikes.
camobeast100 2 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Truth, with humility - but after viewing most of your videos, I personally concede that you probably are right. I am however willing to lend a critical ear.
laffoonrt 2 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance If the majority approves, then it might as well be. (not that I think so personally, but try getting one person to disagree with an army of people)
DeathnoteBB 2 months ago
@DeathnoteBB I disagree with most armies of people
GrapplingIgnorance 1 month ago
@GrapplingIgnorance
If I thought I could find a better doctor, I would, but he's much better than most doctors I've been too. Doctors, other than shrinks tend to be more likely to be theists than other people with their level of education, so I'll just deal with my doctor having an imaginary friend though I wish he wasn't so obvious about it.
Primalxbeast 2 months ago
Two smiling, friendly, attractive young ladies approached me on the street one day and asked, "Do you believe you're going to Heaven?" I was on my way to work and didn't have time for a theological debate, so I just said, "Yes." To which they responded that I was mistaken because everyone is going to burn in hell except for a chosen few, making it clear they had decided I was one of the doomed. Nice of them. I don't humor religious freaks anymore. Now I argue with them for their own good.
1955RodHot 2 months ago
You sir, are a gentlemen and a scholar. You are an incredible human being for the deep intellect and thought you show and put into your videos. Thank you.
ColorOfYouth 2 months ago in playlist Atheism 17
@ColorOfYouth That's exceptionally kind of you to say.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
I am sorry to be so bitter to a bunch of hoodlums that swarm in packs, how many must die, tortured, abused, under there religion, I say let the fucking POPE and his thugs stand before a world court and be judged like the criminals they are and be burned at the stake,like they did to the millions of people they did it to.fuck respect of their.point it has gone to far.I have given them respect & dignity they spit on me. I will not have it no more enough is enough with this bulling shit A Fuck MEN
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
I'm one of those people who would never just go out on a whim and be critical or dedicate any of my time to debating about something if it was not in response to a claim or discussion first made by someone I know/met...long sentence. lol. Most of the vids I make are in response to events in my life. My "Are Animals Atheists?" video was a recollection of a convo I had w/ my Mom. My Gay Agenda video was in response to homophobic comments by my cousins...etc.It's always in response usually. :D
fruitikay 2 months ago
@fruitikay Mine are similar. One of youtube's functions for me is to allow me to vent frustrations with individuals in my personal life while addressing many more people who hold that view outside of my personal life.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago 3
just a thought,kinda give them back what they have giving every one else in the past.I look at it.remember what you did to my great great grand parents,you called them a witch&burned them at the town post.they need to repent there sins.well how about you have to pay up for all the cruel shit you have done to mankind, "SCUMBAG" if there was a GOD your ass be fucked for doing this nasty shit to one of his creations,oh He works in mysteries ways he made me&now pray see if he gives a shit about you
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
I also do not agree with you that they give two shits what you I think.they are more in this zone where they are compel to have you convert like some points on a game show you mater less the conversion process is more important.I feel it will be a long time before this thinking will become a certified malignant mental cancer of sadistic cruelty or lacking social morality & individuality respect which they completely have no re guard for, I say shoot them on the spot let them go to Jessa PTL FT
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
I find that they almost always take it as an insult and offensive and never want to talk my side I am done with this kind of behavior I am 62 years old and feed up with the form of bulling expressed from these religious freaks I call them they are not normal, they are arrogant and demeaning, and complete liars, and Hippocrates. so I have no sympathy for them. and when they come at me with their bullshit. I want equal terms which almost never happens, I feel I am in some crazy insane asylum
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
@AngstromJohnny
"I want equal terms which almost never happens"
I tend to agree. The idea of "mature proselytization" brought up in the video seems, as regards religion, to be an oxymoron. Inherent in religion is the idea of believing without question. Without recourse to reason, theists often resort to repetition, volume, and interruption.
There are those who don't behave this way, but not many. Repeatedly begging the question of god's existence is the m.o.
infideluxe 2 months ago
@infideluxe ah you kinda used words out of side my sil-a-bol? count, I am told I am a genius & complete idiot.I do not know what certain words mean Genius?,"mature proselytization", oxymoron, I seam to live in a different world,Than most people, I look at things in terms of math,logic,English language has been greatly brutal to me,I say things in the best way I can,plaster is not an unknown product to me in its healing ability, but dental floss has& will be a vague concept in my mind
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
I felt I needed to explain why I have piste some people off lately.I can not believe in what I can not see,or obtain the necessary equipment to do so.But I can how ever make an exception when speaking to a person realize & appreciate intelligence, & reasoning with logic, which I do not find in most Catholics. I was born in Belgium,church on ever corner, came to use at 5 went to hell for 5 years gave up Christianity, I proved there was no GOD, 62 now still no GOD, but 3 more hells
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
I own business since 16,I build excellently,I suck at business,women,friends,cooking,kissing ass,listening to BS,I get people working for me make.they treat me like some kinda of god,mental brain,legend,all kinds of BS,I ask them how or why you feel that,you have eyes,brain,body parts,can you not see & figure out what you see,then decide & process your actions, while reasoning the results of your actions,continual reevaluating the results to desired end goals
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
they do not feel they can do anything, I make them bring 110% I pushed them to 150%,I take no priors,failures, I learned from the masters of each trade I set out to learn,along came their personnel wealth of knowledge, its the process we use to learn I am interested in & how the fuck did we get to this point in time.fire, metal plating 5k yag we put copper on steel,2 story structures,flushing toilets, sewer system,& no weapons,No army,no torture, what happened? Peru's Caral
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
@AngstromJohnny
Oh, sorry about that. I'm just saying that I agree with you.
infideluxe 2 months ago
@HelFKiernan That sounds fair to me.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago 2
very good video bro. You make some very great points
AntonTheSpot 2 months ago
@AntonTheSpot Thanks- I hope it helps.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance yes, it did...thanks
AntonTheSpot 2 months ago
Where can I find these pots of gold?
Shuhac 2 months ago
My problem with theists arises when they start trying to talk science when it is patently obvious they are speaking from a position of extreme ignorance. I did not go through many years of poverty putting myself through university and my PhD to silently have "science" flippantly disregarded by the wilfully ignorant.
uknowispeaksense 2 months ago
@uknowispeaksense
"silently have "science" flippantly disregarded by the wilfully ignorant."
I agree.
To add insult to injury, their "scientific" claims then require that we find their sources and pinpoint their errors, which often takes time and effort. Investigative work can be fun to a point, but there seems to be an increase in the amount of pseudoscientific "studies" being presented as legitimate. Bullshit detectors need to be on their highest setting.
infideluxe 2 months ago
@cropdusterfull
"the masses are getting smarter"
What country do you live in? lol
Primalxbeast 2 months ago
Yep, religion is on the clock. The masses are getting smarter as time goes on so it's just a matter of time until religion gets wiped out.
cropdusterfull 2 months ago
My doctor keeps talking about God and it annoys the hell out of me. I don't think he'd take well to me telling him that his imaginary friend doesn't exist, but I don't find hearing fairy tales from my doctor reassuring.
Primalxbeast 2 months ago
@Primalxbeast I would consider finding another doctor.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
I've seen a few complaints that atheists are hypocrites because they're too preachy, "the very thing the have a problem with". That's only hypocrisy if a given atheist complains about proselytizing, and being a theist or atheist doesn't determine that. Many atheists don't mind hearing preaching; many theists do. It's that resistance to open discussion that bothers people like us, and some people who are otherwise open-minded put up walls because it feels wrong to hear their faith criticized.
KaineSpawnX 2 months ago
@KaineSpawnX Bingo.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
Grapplingignorance, you have amazing points and you speak eloquently. I feel that if more people watched your videos (whether atheist or otherwise), the world would be a more understanding and intelligent place. If I knew you in real life we would be great friends =). Best of luck improving the world, you have my support!
TheQuiescentSquall 2 months ago
@TheQuiescentSquall Thank you for those kind words- hopefully the work I do here does have a positive effect on enough people to make a significant difference.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
You can't even purple...like seriously.
BlackJeopardy 2 months ago
As long as people keep religion out of schools, government, out of my face, and out of my vagina, there are welcome to their stupid beliefs. *shrugs* If not, I have a problem with them.
morgannicgregor 2 months ago
@morgannicgregor That certainly sounds like a fair stance to me!
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance
My gripe is similar to morgannicregor's. But I am not content to be simply left alone because religion has played a huge role in denying equality to gay people. Its encroachment upon politics breaches church-state separation, and has done during the entirety of my life so far.
I see it as an ongoing battle (as a gay guy) with theists. I do not spend all my time battling religion (I do have a life), but when I do, I have very little patience for their question-begging b.s.
infideluxe 2 months ago
While I'd hate to take away someone's right to openly say what they believe, I am disgusted on how many Christians say whatever they want, expect to be respected and even applauded for it yet how would they react if a person from a different religion with different god(s) expressed their beliefs in public in the same fashion?
RaptureD87 2 months ago
I'm happy to spend much of my living time in a country where, though there are a significant number of Christians, Christianity itself has a very poor image. Even Christians often are embarrassed about it. The current president didn't help things either. Where am I? South Korea.
QKlilx 2 months ago
As always, very interesting. I've met several people who demand that they not be scrutinized for publicly preaching hell fire and damnation. This is of course ludicrous and will also be challenged, how can they think that telling someone they are worthy of eternal torture for just being born isn't insulting and yet a simple statement of 'I don't believe in your deity' is insulting? Hippocrates.
shadywolf91 2 months ago
@shadywolf91 "Hippocrates" He was a Greek physician.
indignant99 2 months ago
Good points. I know if I didn't want any negative feedback on my political videos, I'd disable the comments or I would keep quiet about them. People who proselytize should expect some feedback or keep it to themselves.
voyzovrezon 2 months ago
I'm with MyGodTheresNoGod. The belief in the sacred causes offence no matter what is said critical of God. So to hell with the sacred!
I treat religion as I do a football game. They are the New Orleans Saints and we are the Detroit Lions. Darwin has ushered in the 2 minute warning and DNA has pushed them back to their goal line.
All they have left are a series of "hail mary" passes.
They have had 3000 years of their "offence"
Now we have them right where we want them. Scrambling and desperate.
parallelsdumaurier 2 months ago 21
@parallelsdumaurier As a life-long Detroit Lions fan, a really appreciate that metaphor.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
@parallelsdumaurier I respectfully disagree with you.I hate to say it but we’re far from having the religious on the run.It may appear to be that way in social media but it isn’t so in reality.Also at the core of monotheistic religions is this “them vs. us” mentality that has been very divisive for humanity & that’s exactly how you come across with this football game analogy. MyGodTheresNoGod pretty much stated to assault people’s sacred beliefs & they’ll eventually get desensitized to it.Cont..
LemLem1111 2 months ago
@parallelsdumaurier Cont… That is not a wise strategy in dealing with religion. Christians for example expect to be mocked, ridiculed, and even persecuted for their faith because that’s exactly what Bible teaches them will happen when they follow Christ. So when some atheists use mockery as their primary way of challenging Christians, they view that as a validation of what the Bible teaches. This in turn causes them to cling to their faith rather then question it.
LemLem1111 2 months ago
Well, you know, religious people are atheistic towards other religions. Since I'm an all around atheist, I never have to justify my claim. But watching religious people justify their atheism, after bashing me, is pretty funny.
Digityus 2 months ago 13
The problem are the religious fanatics, I am a catholic and I am as well a proud bisexual woman.
I can't see anything wrong with that in the 21th century.
I am proud of my religion and civil status. And I want to fight religious fanatics.
AliceinCalifornia 2 months ago
@AliceinCalifornia It's interesting to meet bisexual/homosexual catholics, given the typical strictness against that orientation in the Catholic religion. Moderate theists don't bother me much though, so if it works for you, congratulations. Keep it up.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
Reasonable people must continue to laugh at and scorn Christianity and other superstitions. For unless these willful delusions recieve enough ridicule, some will deem them an alternative to reality.
judoyodan 2 months ago
Regardless of the source, we all have an obligation to call out bullshit as we see it; that's why there is a First Amendment.
deepashtray 2 months ago
Its amazing all the trivial shit ppl thank god for. I mean really god does not process your job application, god does not grant you favor in a sporting event, he'll, god does nothing at all....
MulCRM 2 months ago
@MulCRM I have a video on that topic called "Credit Where Credit's Due."
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
I liked what was said in this video so much I decided to transcribe it and will be posting my transcription in the next 11 posts.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
Youtuber AntonTheSpot asked in his video, link below, if and how modern Atheists should engage theists. He wants opinions for if it's just best to just sit back and let the believers sit back and just live submerged in their happy lives of delusions and if toss them a photation device of rationality are we being any better than they would be to attempt the injection of their religious faith into our lives? It's a good question in a large part because it shows a concern for avoiding hypocrisy.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
2 I would guess that most Atheists are content to just be left alone and have no interest in debating or arguing over religious matters. Especially as long as people aren't proselytising on their doorsteps. They have no interest in going out of their way to do the exact thing they hope theist won't do to them. As a result many of those Atheists just don't bother to present any resistance to the overwhelming rush of theistic propaganda around them.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
3 Depending on their community it usually doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. Here's where I stand on the matter. I don't have a problem with people being public about what they believe and why they believe it. In fact, I'm all for the greatest transparency possible about what the people around me believe and their explanations for why. The problems lie in how that expression has been done and the lack of open or honest discussion in response to it.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
4 Teaching children that what you take in faith is factually true and having them stand in a public place to hand out literature advertising that the people they give it to will burn forever unless they accept Jesus, which is something that recently happened to me, does not fit my idea of healthy proselytization. However, if you wish to stand in a public square or post videos on a public website talking about what you personally believe and why than I'm all for it.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
5 Provided that you are able to accept and consider honest scrutiny and criticism from those willing to offer it. The problem, from my perspective, is that religion in particular has been given so much of a free pass on such abrasive concepts as threatening eternal hellfire for disagreeing with it for so long that it almost seems impolite to publicly challenge it. It almost seems that religion gets the loudest public microphone, that just doesn't seem fair to me.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
6 The result has been that those speaking out on religious matters or who have attached a religious rider onto their message have been spoiled with a false sense of entitlement. Now when they publicly talk about their god sending all the sinners of this world to a fiery pit for their infinite punishment and someone dares to oppose them many of them actually get offended by the person who stood up against what they were saying and that is where the public discussion really breaks down.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
7 We get so swamped with fussing over who has the right to tell things to whom that we talk past each other and we miss one another’s message completely. It's considered a general rule of polite behavior to never discuss religion or politics because those are muddy issues that people tend to take very personally and unless both sides of the discussion are on strict agreement on all points discussed the danger of the conversation becoming a heated argument increases.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
8 In the interest of real progress we need to talk to each other and listen to each other on the matters we consider important. Most christians who approach me to tell me that I'm going to hell if I don't accept Jesus aren't doing it because they hope to insult or offend me. They do it because they think they're saving me. So it's my job in that instance to listen to what they have to say and ask clear and open questions based on what they've told me. After doing so comes the important part.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
9 They have to be willing to hear all my arguments against their position with composure and control equal to mine. If they aren't able to fulfill that last requirement they never should have approached me to make their points in the first place. If they aren't capable of even considering any error in their position, let alone having it explained to them, they aren't interested in actual dialogue and therefore their statements don't deserve public air.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
10 The same concept applies to posting beliefs on public forums. I should be free to post a Youtube video explaining why I believe in leprechauns and warning people that are viewing it who don't that they might be missing out on their fair opportunities for pots of gold. However, for me to expect people's audience I better be willing to listen to and consider the comments and video responses voicing their arguments against what I believe. Provided they're giving more than just insults.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
11 So in short, AntonTheSpot, coming on Youtube to present your arguments against an absurdity which you see most people being guilty of or to argue against those who have come here to support that absurdity is absolutely fine. As long as you're willing to behave fairly and maturely on both sides of the discussion.
ABitOfTheUniverse 2 months ago
@ABitOfTheUniverse Umm this was interesting... thanks?
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
@greycloud24 the atheist understands the theist. It is a psychological phenomena. I think most anthropologists are atheistic. religion is a phenomena among humans. except for tribes like the Piraha tribe who live skeptically en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Pirah%C3%A3_people there is a space between the org
iliveon 2 months ago
Religion is responsible for the crusades, the inquisition, the indoctrination of children & adults, the killing of infidels, the suppression of knowledge, women, minorities, & natural instincts, promoting pedophilia, child-marriage, jihad, animal-cruelty, racism, sexism, genital mutilation, homophobia, anti-semitism, the middle east conflicts, suicide bombers, terrorism, slavery, etc.
IN OTHER WORDS...FUCK IT.
TOO STUPID FOR SCIENCE? TRY RELIGION!
JESUStheATHEIST1 2 months ago
Religion should always be debated and kept in check, the moderate isnt the problem but the extremist to any degree.
Historically speaking religion trying to keep power has caused many wars (and still causes alot of killing, Northern Irelands catholics vs protestants for example) is a prime reason to constantly be on the "attack" in the debate, because if we dont, then the extremists (lets be honest and fair, its a big group in that nowadays for christians) will get to a point of strength again
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
and just cause alot more suffering for the people they hatemonger about like in the US for example the gays and the left wing get a hell of alot of whack from the christian right and centrists alot of the time, if the US had proper education systems (which religous try to stop alot of the time now) then there wouldnt be such rampant homophobia or racism, but also less belief, and thus, it gets hit hard to keep all that, which also sadly stops the advancing of the people
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
and causes alot of pain that isnt required to be frank.
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
Atheists complain to me about a lack of discourse with Christians and yet who is it that I tend to get the most rude comments from? Atheists. Although I keep my channel open to all, and do talk with the atheists who contact me do atheists even look into what people like me believe in? I do look into and read and listen to whatever any atheists sends me, yet I do not see the same for the atheist community. Again, mainly hostile comments.
"The war rages on", is this civil discourse Grap?
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 Actually, iirc there was several studies done (iirc TAA has a vid about it not sure though) that atheists in general know more about other religions more then their followers especially when it comes to christianity in the western world.
Also, i gotta say as a bisexual, generally the christians aint to kind to me lol, at the least are alot worse to me then i (or most atheists i know/call friends at least and many comments i see and read) would be too them.
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
@MitchofSmeg The Pew research center for religious studies did a survey and asked questions about faith in general and about specific faiths also. I know the study well since I taught a class in church about it (and gave the questions as part of the class). I did well on the test (as a minister I expect I should be at least familar with what others think and believe.
If Christians are treating you poorly I see it as their problem. I do not teat people poorly for what they do (sexual orination)
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1
Hey, yeah i see it as their problem too for most time time (although alot of it is hurtful i have thick skin nowadays) and glad to meet a christian who isnt like that, always nice to see :)
Like i said not all do just from my look of it, btw its not about god not existing, but more on the whole "creationism vs evolution" debate type thing how alot of creationist will for example say "theres no transitional fossils and i wont believe no matter what..." etc
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
@MitchofSmeg As a Christian I see no need to be hateful toward anyone. I speak with and try to council young gay people who are christians. Again, just something I do.
Since I believ that genesis is allegorical I see the YEC types as mistranslating the ideas of Genesis. I have a couple of videos on the subject of Gen.
I argue with the YEC types because I do not think they properly show or understand God's love.
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1
Thats the most of it really, not so much "there is no god" but when genuine problems are brought up like creation vs evo, or problems in say the bible or quran or how they personally look at it alot of the time (from my exp) enough of them will go into a defencive stance and be unwilling to accept anything which is as you will likely agree, sad, because they choose to not learn (for example, many believe that all muslim nations have and require sharia that i meet)
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
@MitchofSmeg What I try to do is simply have discussions with people. The type of apologetics/ministry I do is more relational. I care about what people think and hope to learn from others as they can learn from me. I do not agree with anything of athiesm but I am not required to. We can disagree without being disagreeable, right?
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1
I mean i have all the respect for their belief, but its just mind boggling how many dont even know about things in the old testament or the new, dont know how the bible was even made or its history, too many are willing to forget it and try to change it (not the majority but the majority seems to let them). I love to chat with christians who know what they are on about though, because it gets to be a really good descussion alot of the time with learning for both sides.
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
@MitchofSmeg During seminary I really enjoyed textual criticism classes. And I do agree that many Christians know very little about the Bible, however many athiests no just as little. Not to seem rude but many athiests just read things from infedels (dot org) and think that is enough. I try to look into the ideas of those who disagree with me, I ask that others do the same for me.
Feel free to PM me if you would like to further this conversation. My channel is always open. Happy New Year.
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 as far as i can tell, most of the "hate" towards religion from the atheist community that i see is just simply that they had enough of being polite to people who either cant or more often wont accept anything they are told or shown facts for and cling to their faith as a child to their stuffed teddy (not saying all do, just in the cases i find the most hostility coming up) which sucks really, i agree that when its there it isnt acceptable from either side though.
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago 2
@MitchofSmeg See, here is the problem. What facts are people like me being shown that I (we) can not accept? Show me any evidence you have for God not being real and I would be happy to look at it. Many people tell me there are facts for God's nonexistence, but where is it?
My channel is always open, anyone at any time can contact me about whatever they choose to.
Yes, it is to bad when anyone attacks rudly, as I see on this post.
Have a nice day and thanks for the comment.
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 for example the whole evolution "argument", many creationists just simply wont accept the proof they ask for when its presented too them and say silly things like "when i see a monkey give birth to a human i will believe" which would simply put evolution out the window as wrong.
Thats the times i will generally just insult a creationist for example, because they simply just refuse to talk sense and its easier for me to insult back when they insult me for being bi.
MitchofSmeg 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 The average christian thinks I deserve to be tortured for eternity, for the crime of not believing a particular story, and that a god who would do this / allow this to happen is the greatest possible good. Sometimes, I get a little bit testy about this.
Sines314 2 months ago 3
@Sines314 Since I am not the average Christian I do not say that to anyone. And when people say that to me (if I do not follow their views on God) then I try to politly try to talk to them. Dogmatic views on whatever topic do not impress me. All I ask is that if you can show me either a better way to look at whatever you believe in or why I am wrong to believe. I get testy as well with certain believers but I do try to talk to others as I would like to be spoken to. Fair enough?
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 Most atheists who actually put up material (As compared to the average atheist in the comments section, who tend to vary a lot more) are civil and at least try to be open to other people's opinions.
I know plenty who can talk polite, even when they're well past the point where they have every right to stop. For all the crap he gets, Dawkins is polite to a fault, and Seth (The Thinking Atheist) is more sympathetic to theists than most atheists. Check them out.
Sines314 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 As I said in this video, people on both ends of the discussion need to be fair and mature in order for the conversation to get anywhere. People on both ends of this particular issue have been guilty.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance I do enjoy conversations or discussion instead of debates. And while I do agree I do see a few people on this chat have to curse and say other things that do not seem polite or respectful. I can disagree without being disagreeable. I do not think that is to much to ask of others.
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 What do you believe in?
fablan6 2 months ago in playlist Atheism
@fablan6 I believe in lots of things. I beieve the Bible is the most important book ever written by man (yes, I said that right). I believe that kittens are cute. I believe that some people are nice and others are not. I believe in having a nice discussion on a wide variety of topics to include matters of faith I believe in freedom of speech and religion. Is that what you wanted to know?
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 You said the bible is the most important book ever written. Why? Why is it the bible and not the quran or the turah or lord of the rings? There are some very horrific and bad stuff written in it like, how god hates gays, under what circumstances to kill your wife, how much to pay in order to buy a woman from her father in case you raped her etc. Now you will say yes but there are also good things in it. Well, what if I say that I love you but I think you should die too? Is that nice?
fablan6 2 months ago
@fablan6 Because the Bible has changed the world for the better. God does not hate gays, that is a poor translation of the text. I do not say no there are good things in it, I try to show the progressive nature of the Bible and try to show that the Bible is simply a series of writings that show the way people looked at God in terms of the context of the writing, political system, cultural sytem (etc.).
So I should die too? Thanks for proving my point!
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 What do you mean "thanks for proving my point!"? Did you understand what I said?
Also you believe that the bible is the most important book ever written by man and that god does not hate gays and whoever says that it's because of a poor translation of the text. Can you explain this to me then please?
Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
fablan6 2 months ago
I suppose what I see as a problem is that often I get rather absurd personal attacks from the atheist community (and on occasion the Christian one as well). Simply expressing an opinion that I think of atheism in general will get me the usual F*ck off type comments. I see it as the atheists who often do not, or can not behave in a civil manner. As of now I see a comment by a self proclaimed anti-theist who is "offensively on the offensive". Would this person be willing to talk civilly?
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 Just to be clear- you get those attacks from individual member of the atheist community- you don't get them from the community as a whole, or even the majority of it. That's an important distinction to be drawn.
GrapplingIgnorance 2 months ago
@GrapplingIgnorance Fair enough. However a general statement is OK to make to prove a point. Many atheists tell me some awfult hings and I have also read some negative comments on this post. I do make distinctions to the type of person who contact me, as some people are just rude, their faith does not matter to that.
So will people actually try to listen to others thoughts and opinions in terms of faith?
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 Generally speaking, if you're on the internet, it doesn't matter what the topic is or which side of it you fall on or they fall on. You will ALWAYS have a few morons writing nothing but useless insults and there to stir up trouble.
The trick is to filter out the spammers and trolls and find yourself the real deals on both sides.
DeadlyChinchilla 2 months ago
@DeadlyChinchilla I do agree. I think my point was that as a man of faith I do hear from both the atheist and theist sides rude statements. My point is to listen to what others have to say in a polite way. However just seeing what some people have stated (the F* type comments) only proves my point.
Thank you for the comment and have a nice day.
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 I like this rhetoric you display, would you consider the stoning of a person for talking about Mohammad being civil or even respecting my home by knocking on my door to tell me the earth quakes are from GOD.always your side when do I exist in this session, when is my civil feelings consider I am so sick of this I say bring the bullshit on lets level the playing field let me torture your family in the name of you do not mater anymore when I am done we can break bread
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
@AngstromJohnny WTF(fellowship) are you talking about? Are you just trying to prove my point?
jfrontier1 2 months ago
@jfrontier1 I am sorry I am getting to think I should stop speaking for I am getting to feel or see I should only dwell in construction and stay the hell away from trying to communicate cause I suck at it, people are far smarter than I can ever dream I am going to keep my mouth shut.sorry I have confused you.I do not know.it seams I will never know, I tried.I screwed up I should have gone to school and gave English language critical attention,sorry I will not bother you 62 to late
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
fellowship? sounds like religion I am an atheist,I find that religion is pure poison, thinking a GOD or superior being exist in today's times is insulting,Youtube gives me a tremendous incite of what I have missed in life.there is a bill in congress that is about to treating that freedom, so at any moment,so I will not be able to look shit up on growing and testing algae,school is out of the question I teach my
self.I am design 20 Algae green house's 100ftx400ft @200 reactors ea
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
I should not be bothering anyone I am sorry,I do not want to be annoying or sound stupid,I am in a f rm for weeks at a time & I get lonely.&lose sense on how to communicate. the ones I do,super smart I have to be careful when I speak to them,they seam to freak out from the question's I ask,they listen to every word I say,very pressuring.especially with my idea on how to ask,I feel I am allotted Hugh freedom from language ability,& they compensate. its a bubble I am in
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago
@AngstromJohnny I am not calling you stupid or anything bad, I simply do not uderstand what you are saying. I ask that you clarify your points. If this is not a good forum for you, you are more than welcome to send me a PM.
jfrontier1 2 months ago
youtube com watch CB2XlpD-Ld4 will give you an Idea what I asked you, I am not looking for a degree in education either just the name of the discipline so I can go down that road,
he speaks of prof but I do not know how to spell the names he use's and spell check asks me if I am insane so,, I felt I needed to at least try to clear things up with you . or explain my self thanks I will go they are blowing up the neighbor hood its 12/31/2011 12:05
AngstromJohnny 2 months ago