Ergenics Hot Water Heat Engine Demonstration

[Ozoltani]

...over the revolver chambers and locked in another piece of foam(normal temperature and no expansion or contraction) in the hot rod chamber and in the cold rod chamber(The first mini chamber was empty in the cold rod chamber,so the foam would not contract over the piece of iron and pull it downwards the same time as the hot foam pushed it upwards),The cold foam pulled the piece of iron downwards producing momentum again,and so it rolled on.

I made it,

I made a rod go up and down.haha

[Ozoltani]

I made a similar "heat engine" at my faculty( a rod producing momentum lol) which kind of powered itself,2 high Cp wires which led to the upper part of the "machine" guiding temperature diferential from both buckets there,on top of each wire was something similar to a revolver chamber which held 6 mini chambers containing foam which expanded and contracted greatly on temperature change,the warm rod heated the foam which lifted a piece of Austenite iron upwards which made momentum...

[gatraw]

ok so that was 4 years ago, you guys should be millionaires now, is that true?

[randommagnum]

So, if I understand this so far (correct me if I'm wrong) you need to keep reversing that to make it work; it doesn't circulate...right?

It's still a good idea. You could set up some kind of gas analog to a rectifier, using check valves like diodes. Rig up something to keep it going back and forth between cold and hot...and you're in business!

[mangyscavenger]

I think this is brilliant. Easy to see that it will work to make energy very cheap.

It makes great use of solar heated water to move a piston via hydrogen expansion. During the winter, you could obtain both cold water (water cooled outside) & hot water (water heated via solar) to make clean energy at little cost.

[cloudburstlenepmhq]

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[fairyheli2]

what happens when all the hydrogen flows from one side to the other?

[skittlesmonkey]

but the heat energy in the system overall is decreasing right? this works because heat is absorbed not because it is following disorder?

[skittlesmonkey]

i assume that if the absorption medium was a liquid u could pump it back over to the warm side ( since u will be getting several times the volume back as a gas), an thereby you wouldn't have 2 do the annoying switching? could u realistically make some sort of system that slides solid back over to the warm side like sliding beads or drawers full of powder?

[skittlesmonkey]

so the real advantage here lies in the extremely low heat of vaporization ( sublimation) of hydrogen ?

[skittlesmonkey]

this is the most efficient way of creating a unit of gas per unit of heat and this is what gives this system its advantage? I realize that this would probably work with something like dichloro methane or pentane or less ideally freon ( since it has a higher heat of vaporization and that is the opposite of what you want) so what was this technology called before you supped it up with the hydride technology ( i don't think its called a heat pump) ?

[skittlesmonkey]

so this is basically the old idea of a heat pump together with the new technology of absorbing metal metal hydride? and don't u have to let it keep absorbing heat b4 you switch them as to try to get all the as much hydrogen to 1 side before reversing ?

[Lubobuba]

If not a company secret, could you tell how much and what MH you are using in this demonstration? I would guess about 200g...

[Lubobuba]

Absolutely astonishing. WOW!!!

[Econologie2]

I m sorry but the efficiency is not very important if the cost is low and the delta of T° low too...because it could work with a huge quantity of heat sources! (solar at first)

[pinkytm1]

Based on the temperature differential the efficiency would be very low.

[Ps1locyb1n]

So, if you lived in a really hot area, could you place a modified version of this on the side of your house, (half inside, half outside) to run an air conditioner? (Taking heat from outdoors)

[mytoob1671]

hey, that's a great idea. as the a/c runs it would create a bigger T difference.

[DudeForSureMan]

What is your working pressure in psi inside the system? Would you be able to make it more efficient if you raise the base pressure?

[deauzie]

how long did it run off the energy from the bucket of hot water

[xuserx2000]

That's incredible.

You definitely should expand this system to a 1kwh/day (grid tied). That would actually be marketable.

[1crazyfocker]

that is really cool what was the temp a guess if you dont know for sure of the hot and the cold water?

[Ergenics]

In the above video the hot water started out at about 90C and drops down to about 75C. The cold water starts out at about 15C and heats up to about 30C

[selfactingmachine]

check out vamaaraf it may not be spelled right but you will find it. it is a can that you push water through and converts diferential temperature into electricity

[neoartifact]

Excellent method of extracting energy out of an unequalised system! You could have hundreds of metres of black piping with water inside that begins to boil under the hot sun. Another array of piping in buried under the ground. Black (absorber coated) piping absorbs a lot more infra-red radiation than solar panels can and can be an excellent method of generating electricity. The shortcomings are when clouds develop. Clouds absorb infra-red if I'm correct.

[urbis92]

if you can .. could you mail me something like.. a scheme or soething .. i want to take a closer look at it ..

[Ergenics]

We have one on our web site. Go to ergenics. com then click on "Heat Engines" then click on "Solar Electric".

[urbis92]

k ty

[macsire]

are you able to isolate the poles from each other - does the ambient water gain heat?

[Ergenics]

Yes, the heat exchangers can be configured in almost any way, and yes, the cold water is needed to reject the low temperature heat of the heat engine. In actual practice this heat would be removed via a fluid-to-air heat exchanger to the ambient air.

[aflacduky]

sorry all its 100 year old stuff you can use r34a to do the same thing it works but then again you need heat just like all other generators

[Ergenics]

Very True...heat engines are not new. The problem is economic viability; and our hope is in our good economics. Every energy analyst will admit that solar can provide all of our energy needs, and warm water from solar is very economical (ever left a garden hose out in the sun?). Also, Freon has some environmental problems.

[aflacduky]

your right love your comment however r34a is not bad for the ozone its not a cfc i think i will look in to this more thanks for this post got my mind turnning :}

[pi3573]

r134a

[aflacduky]

yah missed that until i posted it

[skittlesmonkey]

using a coolant like freon would be counterproductive sine u want something with a low heat of vaporization ( a coolant is designed to have a high heat of vaporization)

[cdltpx]

Could you power this with solar heated water for hot, with a windmill to pump ground water for cold? This could be set up in existing plants that use chillers use this first prior to entering the chiller. There are so many places where heat needs to be removed.

[cycimian]

This is brilliant, Useing within day and night what nature is, Im old and confused still, And Yet have never given up on the concept of Perpetual Motion, For in it, its more profitible to be an oil agendendist,But how stupid can we be to end up as the most dynamic member of the fossil record to some future bipedal cocroach who knew from feeling how to find heat rather then burning that shit which is killing us now,

[ibercaracole]

Quelle difference de temperature doit-il y avoir entre les deux liquides pour que le systeme fonctionne ?

[Ergenics]

In the above demo we are using only a single hydride stage, so the temperature between the hot and cold water is about 70C, however, if multiple hydride stages are employed then we feel that we will be able to produce viable economic electric power from a heat source to heat sink temperature gradient of only 15C.

[gorblimey61]

I'm certainly not a scientist, but it appears that this technology could have applications in air conditioning and refrigeration as well.

[Ergenics]

You are correct. In fact, if you visit our web site you will find a paper on a prototype AC unit we made for Fiat. We have also recently made an advance heat powered AC unit that we think produces the most cooling per unit of mass and volume than any technology to date.

[checkmatedeepblue]

Great!

[simi112]

This is very interesting. How many is efficiency ?

Is in this engine water pump also?

[Ergenics]

Currently the final net efficiency of our heat engine is about 7% when operating on a heat source temperature of 85C and a heat sink temperature of 35C. This is about ½ the efficiency of current PV systems which are about 14%. However, the cost of our 85C thermal solar collectors are about 20 times less that current PV collectors. If we used a higher temp thermal solar collector (concentrating collectors) then our efficiency would be higher, but this comes with a much higher cost.

[trailkeeper]

I would say go for this, since solar electric panels are still high in price and probably wont be as efficient. THe sun can heat up hot water very hot, and this motor can charge batteries up for night time, etc.

[communitywork]

Hydride metal must be an alkali like sodium, very reactive with ordinary air. I guess the heat exchanger must really be made of strong material to prevent leaks or else the whole device can be hazardous.

[Ergenics]

Not really. You are right that some hydride formers (like sodium) are very reactive, but the metal hydrides that we use are literally thousands of times less reactive with water or air, and will simply "passivate" (form an oxide layer) when exposed to water or air, rendering them inactive and very safe. The tubing containing the hydride is indeed a pressure vessel and must be designed for the pressures it will experience. Pressure relief valves are used to ensure safety.

[mptrax]

in nature every difference can become energy.

[Ergenics]

True, but ultimately the task is to economically convert solar into more useful energy (electricity). Every energy analyst will admit that solar energy has the potential to provide all of the world's energy needs, but most will quickly add that it will be another 50 years before solar is economically viable. We believe that we are only a couple of years away from economic viability, therefore, the only disagreement is over the time frame...and good inventions can change time frames.

[mochiam]

Is this in some ways a stirling engine?

[Ergenics]

Not really. A sterling engine operates on the linear expansion and contraction of a gas with temperature, where as the metal hydride hydrogen reaction is an exponential expansion and contraction with temp, very similar to the exponential expansion and contraction of a liquid/gas system (such as water/steam). However, the hydride/H2 reaction does not have the condensation and heat transfer limitations that liquid/gas systems must contend with, and it can also be multi-staged (ergenics com).

[Ergenics]

Thank you. The cost of all of the materials is now $0.15 per watt of electric generation capacity. We need to reduce the cost of manufacturing which is about $20 per watt. With automation we expect to reduce the labor portion to under $0.10 per watt. Excellent idea about constant hot water sources, because they are 24/7 we should be able to achieve payback times of under one year (when in mass production). We are in the process of trying to raise the money for LS production.

[phantomroller]

Did I understand that you are using hydrogen as the working fluid? What kind of internal pressures are you using to keep the hydrogen liquified? What sort of temperture differential is needed for operation?

[Ergenics]

Yes, hydrogen gas is the working fluid, and it stays as a gas as it is absorbed and then desorbed into and out-of the metal hydride heat exchangers. In the above demo we are using only a single hydride stage, so the temperature between the hot and cold water is about 70C, however, if multiple hydride stages are employed then we feel that we will be able to produce viable economic electric power from a heat source to heat sink temperature gradient of only 15C.

[phantomroller]

If so you will get some skeptics asking you to measure the energy input needed to lift and turn the unit where in a real world application you would simply switch the flow of the hot and cold water ( or whatever heat transfer medium) with a simple valve, nice.

[Ergenics]

That is true, if fact we have been making metal hydride thermal compressors at operate exactly in this way for many years now.

[phantomroller]

That is very intersting, and looks very nicely done. Am I correct in assuming that the reason to pick up the unit and reverse it is that all the working fluid in the hot side vaporizes, flows through the turbine and ends up condensed on the cool side?

[Ergenics]

During the Absorption step (when in the cold water) the hydrogen actually turns into a metal and "alloys" itself with the metal hydride, during the Desorption step (when in hot water) the hydrogen is converted back into a gas (at high pressures) and is then used to turn the turbine and produce shaft power.