On the point of the "evils" in nature..... this is only a problem if you're a christian and believe in a loving god. Actually Hitchens just explained that a couple of minutes ago, and then Demsky goes on arguing the very same point that Hitchens just refuted, like he wasn't even listening or didn't care what Hitchens said!
Dembski's train of thought it much to thinly spread over much too many things. And he doesn't make reasonable conclusions. He also seems to be arguing from a point of view of someone trying to find things to prove something he already knows is true. He also doesn't seem to know much, or to be convincing in the least. I get so bored when he speaks.
This Dembski guy completely makes my mind bleed listening to such waffleshite. If anything it shows him to be a brilliant speaker because he can spit this shit and do it with a clear conscience and look like he actually believes what he's saying actually makes intellectual sense.
Note, Hitchens is very unlikely to have donated blood after having had any sort of cancer. Cancer patients are generally restricted from donating blood or organs.
aaaahhhhhhh!!! OK I hate Dumbshi(t) now......I tried to listen to him but I just can't. He's making my head spin trying to keep up with his skewed view. I feel sorry for his wife and kids.
Hitchens......I'm still going through the 5 stages of grief...that's why I'm here.
After quoting all sorts of injustices make by Yahweh, this idiot says that "god is a just god!?" WHAT THE BLOODY FUCKING HELL!!!
It's statements like this that are the bane of any moral enlightenment and peaceful coexistence that we, as a species, can ever hope to achieve.
He then goes on to say that 'god made all the rules." What so he made us so we could suffer a painful and demeaning existence and an equally horrible death?!! THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!!! This Dumbski is morally inept!! Fuck Him!
God is terrible at justice. By his law, a virgin who's raped is forced to marry her rapist. The man is not punished, except for paying THE FATHER 50 silver shekels.
Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
@mrpayne123 this happens in parts of the middle east, i watched it on the news today about a woman getting raped being forced to marry the rapist or face the death penalty.
"When the concubine was dismembered" remember kids "concubine" is almost a sex slave and the part of the jewish tribe that was different almost annihilated, yeah sure, the farce is strong in that one
I think Dembski's rebuttal on morality was exceptionally weak, almost painful to watch. I was interested to see if he would try to defend "god" in the old testament. I feel this really depletes his credibility.
ppl that need a divine dictator to live,are nothing more than COWARDS that are afraid of death!! We live ,we die ,just like the stars! Theirs no point in thinking you're special!! I'm sooooooo glad to know i won't live forever!! A person that thought about living for eternity ,and think it's a good thing is a FOOL!!!
Stupid atheists! It's obvious, if God says you can commit genocide, then it's NOT immoral. God isn't bound by our rules. He can straight up murder whoever he wants, even if they're just children. How can you arrogant, immoral atheists not get that?!
Is Dembski able to have a logical thought pattern? How does Pinker's reporting of infanticide in any way detract from evolution? It really supports it.
Dembski thinks becuase of evolution and the struggle for life it implies can sometimes be brutal, that somehow refutes it being true. Nature is brutal full stop get over it. It cannot be changes thats the way it is. Do you not think we feel sorry for the poor baby antelope as it is hunted and devoured by the lioness because it is weak? of course we do but that is the way of life.
Despite all the things I have heard over the years in defense of the genocide, rape and slavery parts in the bible: no matter what idea you might have of a 'supreme being', if it instructs you to commit these atrocities, the it cannot be the word of god. So if we agree that the bible is not the infallible word of god, then hurray.
If we live in a fallen, imperfect, we must ask ourselves how it came to be imperfect? Man? Well, God made the world first, before Man, so can it not be said that God made the world imperfect? If He made the world perfect beforehand, then it would be incorruptible, since it is perfect. Otherwise, it would not be perfect.
God made the world imperfect. What benevolent reason would He have this? The answer is there isn't one. Not the idea of a benevolent God to me.
dembski="we have problems", is that suppose to be an argument for god???
how stupid, the only thing he is accomplishing is proving there is no proof of god himself.....shit happens in the animal kingdom and shit happens in human world...no god to cause it no god to stop it....its just life....
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A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
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Who gives a fuck what is in the bible. These religious nutters make me want to reach for my gun and go hunting! The world would be better off without the stupid fuckers. BANG! One less nut job.
@SissingPyd No I cannot say I deprogram one. I never tried to. For me it's whatever gets you through the night, it's alright by me. The best way to go about is simply avoidance. And if you're talking about religious fanatics that slam hard on the bible, even regular Christians would want to avoid those people at all cost. But just killing them isn't going to help our case.
@dirtleg27 I consider the blind faith brigade as enemies of all rational people. OK shooting them was a piss take but it's the sentiment that counts. Let’s play what if. If there was a magic button that when pressed painlessly removed all religious people from the world and brought religion to an end. Would you press it?
@SissingPyd No I couldn't do that. Reason being the closest thing I had of a father was a strong man of faith. He died of cancer with his faith early 2000's. Whether if there is religion or not, there will always be nut cases, and then you would just make reasons to eliminate more others til there isn't anyone left. Let nature takes its course and eliminate us all, that's the best solution.
@dirtleg27 Then you don’t need to and fully I understand why.
Just sit tight knowing that there are those who can and will if given the chance. I'm sure after carefully weighing up the pros and cons, Prof Dawkins would push that button. Chris Hitchens would race to be first, even in his current state of health.
@SissingPyd I wouldn't doubt that that Dawkins would, but watch this video of Hitchens: Christopher Hitchens relates a conversation with Richard Dawkins
In the q&a from 2:00 to 6:00 between them Demski makes a far more consistent point than Hitchens. Namely, just arguing "what is" = "what should be" is a jump in reasoning. Hitchens wants to say that just because we live in groups it's somehow inherent to be moral or something. Yet, to be consistent, that means the standard is "what is" = "what should be", thus since we're all selfish and murder, we should just do this.
What one will find is the reality of morality exists apart from us.
Why do theists always try to paint the picture that we're slaves to evolution? Evolution was the process that formed us, that's it. I think the term; the selfish gene, has been taken too far. We're not slaves to our genes, we are our genes. What helps us, helps our genes, and our "bonding" helps us. Therefore, just as Hitchens said, why make a mystery where none fucking exists?! In a word; bollocks :o)
Why do theists always try to paint the picture that we're slaves to evolution? Evolution was the process that formed us, that's it. I think the term; the selfish gene, has been taken too far. We're not slaves to our genes, we are our genes. What helps us, helps our genes, and our "bonding" helps us. Therefore, just as Hitchens said, why make a mystery where none fucking exists?! In a word; bollocks :o)
Love, bonding, friendship exist because they are an evolutionary adaption. They work. It's not complicated. Too bad Dembski cannot see this. How can evil exist in nature? It occurs to me that it is in what you see not in what exists. Nature is just morally neutral.
Dembski does not understand evolution at all. The fact that nasty, horrible things occur in human nature is not a slight against the theory, it is evidence FOR it.
Besides, hypothetical reasons for why rape and infanticide exist does not justify those things.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Would you let your children read that?
The "Holy" Bible is t he worst book of fiction ever written. It should be classified Horror/Fiction, not suitable for under 18
Anyone who attempts to justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki immediately loses a great deal of my respect. Anyone who does it in comparison to religious texts in terms of justification of what they believe, loses all of it.
I have to say that both of those bombings can be justified rather simply. Had we not used the bomb, the war would have continued indefinitely costing millions of american lives as well as japanese. The amount of lives lost in that time would far surpass the number lost in the bombings. If anything dropping the bomb saved lives, specifically american ones. How could Truman have explained to mothers of american soldiers not using the bomb if it would have saved their son's lives?
@trojan16 Because not only would a nonnuclear war have cost less lives in the long run, for the Japanese at least, but nuclear weapons are an atrocity. They scar the Earth and the people of those cities were innocent civilians who had to suffer the effects of radiation poisoning for generations to come. I'm not trying to justify that the Japanese were in any means 'in the right' on the terms which they were fighting, but what I am saying is that no one deserves that kind of warfare.
@trojan16 Quite simply, the mother's of these soldiers knew what their son's had signed themselves up for and should have been prepared for their sacrifice in war.
The generations that suffered radiation poisoning because of those bombs did not sign up for it, had no choice in the matter and had nothing to do with the war.
@mrface19 Unfortunately, in war it truly is a matter of us or them. Say the U.S. hadn't used the bomb, the war drags on for another 2 years. The U.S. wins but is in a much weaker state. The USSR is put in prime position with the only other superpower not being so super. The USSR had no reason to believe the U.S. was a real threat. The cold war could have ended much differently had the Soviets not seen the lengths we would go. The Nuclear bomb was the stalemate that prevented sheer devastation.
@trojan16 Sorry man... though I see what you're trying to say, I can't see any of that as a good enough reason to instantly kill hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT Japanese civilians and cause misery for generations afterwards. It's just not right. We may see things through different scopes... but I don't appreciate the idea of American posturing causing untold misery and death for others. I can't agree with it, I can't condone it, I can barely believe it.
@mrface19 Well that's a hard position to argue. I certainly agree that the use of nuclear weapons is a horrible thing to come to, and I cannot think of another situation where I would condone it. There we can come to even ground and agree to disagree. Hey look at that, a youtube comment discussion without flaming. Nice!
If Dembski is going to argue that god designed us to be social and moral...how is it we can be immoral? How is it so few agree on what "god" is? How is it that some people don't believe in any god? If your argument is that ANY evidence you have can be twisted to support your claim, even if one piece of evidence you use contradicts ANOTHER piece of evidence you use TO SUPPORT THE SAME CLAIM...you are either being grossly dishonest, or grossly falling victim to cognitive dissonance.
The most important sociological and psychological effect of religion is to instill in people not just fear, but, apparently, a stunning level of cognitive dissonance and blindness. Why else would we have Dembski waxing about the proximity of atrocity to the atheist worldview and the naturalist viewpoint, while not even noticing the Biblical skulls his point is crushing in the process?
It's also asinine of Dembski to suggest that scientists identifying the behaviour in various animal species equals them justifying it as excellent behaviour. As if to say, "Oh, some animals rape in order to force their genes into the species when a female won't willingly take them. That means us humans must accept rape in our culture!" ... Umm. What? lol
Denmark, Sweden and other Scandinavian countries got the strongest social safety net, and universal health care, one could argue it is an self sacrificing deed for the common good.
Worth noticing Sweden is 87% atheists.
so morality seem like they got more morality then Christians in here who acts selfish and look after the rich all the time.
@izaccy This is a bad argument. The Bible doesn't claim that the world can't act moral. In fact it teaches the opposite because that's how God holds all men accountable. Rather, only the Bible can "account" for morality. There's a HUGE difference between "accounting" for morality and "being" moral.
@warrior4just Wife swapping and sodomy are only considered immoral through interpretation of certain religious dogma. What consenting adults do with their sexual organs is of no consequence to a society as long as no one else is hurt. Prostitution is immoral when a person is forced into it, through economics etc. All of these things exist in christian majority nations with more negative outcomes, like higher percentages of STDs in relation to prostitution.
what a fucking low life, and low attitude, u and ur motherfucking low culture, lowering a sacred union like marriage to immorality. immorality is not about if somebody getting hurt, it's about it's justified or right behavior, it's about the long term consequences when such matters become widespread and disorder from that. If that sounds oright to u, then i suggest looking into ur individuality and morals. damn i wann kill motherfukcers like u
@izaccy i live in a country with a fair guess would be 95% of Christians and the conditions of the country are awful, the rate of pregnant teenagers to the roof, murder in thousands per year there is no single week without a mass murder o somebody find a corpse, the traffic of drugs to the roof and not to mention some other things and all of us are christians thanks, minus me
Rape is an evolutionary adaptation ! Weasel's even rape very juvenile weasels( before they are independent) go google Dembski, or did your loving god designed this ?
Holy fuck that ending. If that's not a Hitchslap, I don't know what is. So fucking beautifully put, so incredibly worded, I almost got tears in my eyes!
I wonder what repercussions were suffered by all the Prestonwood kids who applauded Hitchens. Guess nobody knew there was such a subversive lot right there on their campus.
14:35 ...And that is the wisdom of god. "To be ordered well." Well said in the mocking words of Hitchens, and it's at that time that we realize that our free will is more than our will to rebel, but our will to live.
Hey! The Christians turned on themselves too! and the Muslim's do it constantly these days. I wonder when atheists will start querreling over the tenents of their beliefs and kill eachother in as vast numbers as theists. probably soon I guess, since atheism is such a recent phenomenum *rollseyes*
a bit of zen to prove any theist WRONG! can God make a rock so big that even he cannot lift it? 1) If he can then he is not all powerful because he cannot lift it 2) if he cannot thenhe is not all powerful because he cannot make it
fuck off, GOD is not judged in the same law, he made the law, jajajajajjaja if I was Hitch i would just walk away, there is no matter in losing time with this dude
@orbital40k "God is a just god and he is not bound by the same rules that we are, he makes the rules and the fact is that we all die, this is a decision by god and the way the world is structured", Dude this is the lamest most ignorant and deluded statement. Humans we are just highly evolved apes, that a result of evolution we had fulfill our basic needs of food, shelter, etc, etc. With that fulfillment our brain has plenty of time to continue evolving and developing, also hallucinating stories
Yeah, I'm sure this slick haired, used car salesman mediator is really reading questions from the audience and just happens to be able to add such detail to the question himself.
Wow...Dembski is really losing his argument in his own mind at this point...
He starts the debate on his broken front foot and then starts to falter and then starts to justify Hitchens side and then starts to get nervous and backtracks and makes mistakes and gets defensive by wavering his side.
"A fallen world"? Hmmm, Mr. Debmski, your god created this "fallen world" ...as I see it, you are digging a hole that you are putting yourself into, deeper and deeper...you seem childish, at best, to me.
Dembski: "The problem is, with a fallen world, there's no perfect optimisation strategy...God is a just god...he's not bound by the same rules that we are...he makes the rules..."
Just about everything you need to know about Dembski's refutation of Hitchens' sublime efforts. Insipid, mealy-mouthed circumlocution. I detest his type so much.
I cannot BELIEVE that this guy represents himself elsewhere as a scientist. Nice job, Bill. You should leave the mask off so that EVERYONE can see who you are.
Secular morality means that people can do whatever they want.(while still having to deal with natural consequences for actions.)
Theistic morality means people can do whatever they want, (since God gave them free will) AND, God gets to torture them later, to no end or purpose other than pure revenge.
yeah, theism provides a MUCH better argument for morality....
An explanation is not the same as justification. The idea that evolution favours rape and infanticide it does not mean that these are morally acceptable...
I'm Dembski and I'm going to shout out slogans like "Atheism has it's own problems" then ramble on for a few minutes not even saying what those problems are then quote the bible saying it's a fallen world, after saying god is good and just because Jew's kill Jews and every one else too then splutter out some broken sentences
I love how Dembski completely ignores Hitchens' rebuttal (in which Hitchens' points out that God gives authority for rape and genocide), and then Dembski goes on to say that "God isn't bound by the same rules that we are. He makes the rules."
Look at Hitchens. Look at the smug bastard, with his (uncharacteristically) silent smirk. He's just sitting there in his intellectual high horse, watching Dembski kill his own arguments without any help. God I love Hitchens.
And once again the biggest hole in the theist argument - that god orders slaughter for purposes that only 'he' understands- reduces the advocate Dembski's resonance to a dull thud.
I said in a previous video that Dembski's God is not an objective moral standard. Here, Dembski agrees. Vindication.
How "objective" is morality when God makes the standard and can violate it without being immoral? How much a "standard" can morality have when his actions are always moral, regardless of how immoral they would be if done by a mortal.
This is the brainwashing Hitchens warns about when he says there is no difference between God and Kim Jong Il.
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ShinjukuHH 6 days ago
Dembski really loses it at about 11:00.
Ilicium 1 week ago
When a believer in God speaks they reinforce their idiocy.
rza1m 2 weeks ago
Are you sure his name is not Dumbski
prebenso 2 weeks ago
Wonderful last line for this segment
ninjamommy5 2 weeks ago
On the point of the "evils" in nature..... this is only a problem if you're a christian and believe in a loving god. Actually Hitchens just explained that a couple of minutes ago, and then Demsky goes on arguing the very same point that Hitchens just refuted, like he wasn't even listening or didn't care what Hitchens said!
KamasutraButterfly 1 month ago
Dembski's train of thought it much to thinly spread over much too many things. And he doesn't make reasonable conclusions. He also seems to be arguing from a point of view of someone trying to find things to prove something he already knows is true. He also doesn't seem to know much, or to be convincing in the least. I get so bored when he speaks.
ultimateZigzag 1 month ago
we have lost a great thinker and debater when Hitchens passed on.
Demski should study history a little more. There was no need other than a political one to drop the bombs on Japan.
and those children who clap at Hitchens arguments must be on the red list. But notice he gets more than Demski does... Is there HOPE after all?
zaxxxon 1 month ago
This Dembski guy completely makes my mind bleed listening to such waffleshite. If anything it shows him to be a brilliant speaker because he can spit this shit and do it with a clear conscience and look like he actually believes what he's saying actually makes intellectual sense.
tayzlor 1 month ago
Hitchens should have included more natural abnormalities like birth defects, Siamese Twins. These are in your face accounts for evolution.
the religious love to point out the perfect person, but they don't always exist.
TubularTNT 1 month ago
Note, Hitchens is very unlikely to have donated blood after having had any sort of cancer. Cancer patients are generally restricted from donating blood or organs.
TheInox555 1 month ago
aaaahhhhhhh!!! OK I hate Dumbshi(t) now......I tried to listen to him but I just can't. He's making my head spin trying to keep up with his skewed view. I feel sorry for his wife and kids.
Hitchens......I'm still going through the 5 stages of grief...that's why I'm here.
tulipsontheorgan 2 months ago
HEADSHOT MULTIKILL DOMINATING GOTCHABITCH HUMILIATION!!!
yourfullofsheite 2 months ago 2
Listening to Dembski completely misrepresent Hitchens argument so horrifically.
nojuggernaut 2 months ago 2
im getting sick to my stomach listening to Demski. I cant believe he believes what hes saying...
Ikorose11 2 months ago 12
Dembski - completely destroyed from 9:00 >
VtotheMax 2 months ago 3
Watching this makes you understand why Prestonwood would try to keep this debate hidden.
BeckettKnox 2 months ago 11
I think Dumbski is a little confused :/
bunches66 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos 2
he's absolutely squirming around 10:50 it's hilarious.
also 11:24 if we can't judge god for committing evil then we cannot say he is benevolent either.
Lolyusomadbro 2 months ago in playlist More videos from PrestonwoodCowards
I love it! At 10:10 Dumb-ski admits God is not omnipotent.
Christianity, the ultimate self-contradicting proposition.
What a joke.
UseYerEFFINBrain 2 months ago
After quoting all sorts of injustices make by Yahweh, this idiot says that "god is a just god!?" WHAT THE BLOODY FUCKING HELL!!!
It's statements like this that are the bane of any moral enlightenment and peaceful coexistence that we, as a species, can ever hope to achieve.
He then goes on to say that 'god made all the rules." What so he made us so we could suffer a painful and demeaning existence and an equally horrible death?!! THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!!! This Dumbski is morally inept!! Fuck Him!
shade9592 2 months ago
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shade9592 2 months ago
"Mr." Hitchens and "Doctor" Dembski? Seriously?
redcloak676 2 months ago
dembski is an atheist evolutionist at this point
dopeasfuckk 2 months ago
11:24 We all die? Great insights there Sherlock.
egodrive 2 months ago
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egodrive 2 months ago
Dembski is a bumbling idiot. Christopher is obviously intelligent.
shonpistoll 3 months ago
Poor Dembski, he's falling apart at the book of Exodus!
MrBeauquilter 3 months ago
God is terrible at justice. By his law, a virgin who's raped is forced to marry her rapist. The man is not punished, except for paying THE FATHER 50 silver shekels.
Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
mrpayne123 3 months ago
@mrpayne123 this happens in parts of the middle east, i watched it on the news today about a woman getting raped being forced to marry the rapist or face the death penalty.
dopeasfuckk 2 months ago
"When the concubine was dismembered" remember kids "concubine" is almost a sex slave and the part of the jewish tribe that was different almost annihilated, yeah sure, the farce is strong in that one
sol3a1 3 months ago in playlist More videos from PrestonwoodCowards
Dembski was a fly and Hitchen is the 100 sq ft swatter
sol3a1 3 months ago in playlist More videos from PrestonwoodCowards
I think Dembski's rebuttal on morality was exceptionally weak, almost painful to watch. I was interested to see if he would try to defend "god" in the old testament. I feel this really depletes his credibility.
pyrocubed 3 months ago
Thank you AronRa
TheMrgoku1985 3 months ago
ppl that need a divine dictator to live,are nothing more than COWARDS that are afraid of death!! We live ,we die ,just like the stars! Theirs no point in thinking you're special!! I'm sooooooo glad to know i won't live forever!! A person that thought about living for eternity ,and think it's a good thing is a FOOL!!!
MrAmericanzombie 3 months ago
Religion seems to be self-destructing anyway....Lets just get out of the way and watch.
jazzhawkus 3 months ago
There you go 12:50 he just answered his own question if God exists
dirtleg27 3 months ago
Stupid atheists! It's obvious, if God says you can commit genocide, then it's NOT immoral. God isn't bound by our rules. He can straight up murder whoever he wants, even if they're just children. How can you arrogant, immoral atheists not get that?!
RyuHadokenMaster 3 months ago
From 11:00 on by Dembski I literally stared in complete stupefaction, I almost struck my laptop.
xlr8rkid98 3 months ago
Is Dembski able to have a logical thought pattern? How does Pinker's reporting of infanticide in any way detract from evolution? It really supports it.
NickInDetroit 4 months ago
Dembski thinks becuase of evolution and the struggle for life it implies can sometimes be brutal, that somehow refutes it being true. Nature is brutal full stop get over it. It cannot be changes thats the way it is. Do you not think we feel sorry for the poor baby antelope as it is hunted and devoured by the lioness because it is weak? of course we do but that is the way of life.
grantburrell 4 months ago
Dumbski
FlawlessCock 4 months ago
Despite all the things I have heard over the years in defense of the genocide, rape and slavery parts in the bible: no matter what idea you might have of a 'supreme being', if it instructs you to commit these atrocities, the it cannot be the word of god. So if we agree that the bible is not the infallible word of god, then hurray.
whauffend 4 months ago
Poor dumbski rambles on. Bet he wd rather be anyway but there.
Klash92 4 months ago
If we live in a fallen, imperfect, we must ask ourselves how it came to be imperfect? Man? Well, God made the world first, before Man, so can it not be said that God made the world imperfect? If He made the world perfect beforehand, then it would be incorruptible, since it is perfect. Otherwise, it would not be perfect.
God made the world imperfect. What benevolent reason would He have this? The answer is there isn't one. Not the idea of a benevolent God to me.
ardendogma 4 months ago
I hear that Dembski is still walking funny.
colerichards6969 4 months ago
Hitchens final comments: You-tube watch: E15IC3YKv8g
phucklogins 4 months ago
dembski="we have problems", is that suppose to be an argument for god???
how stupid, the only thing he is accomplishing is proving there is no proof of god himself.....shit happens in the animal kingdom and shit happens in human world...no god to cause it no god to stop it....its just life....
thriveagainst 4 months ago
Dembski = Hitchslapped!
Pernic10us 4 months ago 2
13:44 and on. What a childish God indeed.
WiseGuruProductions 4 months ago in playlist Hitchens-Dembski Debate Nov 2010
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mafiotzi 5 months ago
I've spent many many hours watching these religious debates and I have never encountered one single argument supporting the existance of a God.
Not one.
devanteswiing 5 months ago in playlist devanteswiing's Favourited Videos 2
This has been flagged as spam show
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lightandbeautiful 5 months ago
the a-bomb was considered 'survival' could be justified with certain views
tribal genocide to take their land because GOD said it should be their land-is never justified.
I am glad moses and joshua never existed and archaeology shows they didn't do the acts according to the books
kelbykross1 5 months ago
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kelbykross1 5 months ago
10:20 wtf? lets kill 100k japanese to save 100k americans? FUCK YOU
hasenj 5 months ago
Who gives a fuck what is in the bible. These religious nutters make me want to reach for my gun and go hunting! The world would be better off without the stupid fuckers. BANG! One less nut job.
SissingPyd 5 months ago
@SissingPyd Uh you might want to calm down your radical point of view
dirtleg27 3 months ago
@dirtleg27 Why might I want to do that?
Talking calmly to the fuckers gets us nowhere. Once blinded by faith, it seems they are always blinded by it.
Have you ever successfully deprogrammed one of them?
SissingPyd 3 months ago
@SissingPyd No I cannot say I deprogram one. I never tried to. For me it's whatever gets you through the night, it's alright by me. The best way to go about is simply avoidance. And if you're talking about religious fanatics that slam hard on the bible, even regular Christians would want to avoid those people at all cost. But just killing them isn't going to help our case.
dirtleg27 3 months ago
@dirtleg27 I consider the blind faith brigade as enemies of all rational people. OK shooting them was a piss take but it's the sentiment that counts. Let’s play what if. If there was a magic button that when pressed painlessly removed all religious people from the world and brought religion to an end. Would you press it?
If yes, hold that thought and let it grow.
SissingPyd 3 months ago
@SissingPyd No I couldn't do that. Reason being the closest thing I had of a father was a strong man of faith. He died of cancer with his faith early 2000's. Whether if there is religion or not, there will always be nut cases, and then you would just make reasons to eliminate more others til there isn't anyone left. Let nature takes its course and eliminate us all, that's the best solution.
dirtleg27 3 months ago
@dirtleg27 Then you don’t need to and fully I understand why.
Just sit tight knowing that there are those who can and will if given the chance. I'm sure after carefully weighing up the pros and cons, Prof Dawkins would push that button. Chris Hitchens would race to be first, even in his current state of health.
SissingPyd 3 months ago
@SissingPyd I wouldn't doubt that that Dawkins would, but watch this video of Hitchens: Christopher Hitchens relates a conversation with Richard Dawkins
dirtleg27 3 months ago
In the q&a from 2:00 to 6:00 between them Demski makes a far more consistent point than Hitchens. Namely, just arguing "what is" = "what should be" is a jump in reasoning. Hitchens wants to say that just because we live in groups it's somehow inherent to be moral or something. Yet, to be consistent, that means the standard is "what is" = "what should be", thus since we're all selfish and murder, we should just do this.
What one will find is the reality of morality exists apart from us.
solaphyde 5 months ago
Why do theists always try to paint the picture that we're slaves to evolution? Evolution was the process that formed us, that's it. I think the term; the selfish gene, has been taken too far. We're not slaves to our genes, we are our genes. What helps us, helps our genes, and our "bonding" helps us. Therefore, just as Hitchens said, why make a mystery where none fucking exists?! In a word; bollocks :o)
russellrummage 5 months ago
Why do theists always try to paint the picture that we're slaves to evolution? Evolution was the process that formed us, that's it. I think the term; the selfish gene, has been taken too far. We're not slaves to our genes, we are our genes. What helps us, helps our genes, and our "bonding" helps us. Therefore, just as Hitchens said, why make a mystery where none fucking exists?! In a word; bollocks :o)
russellrummage 5 months ago
Well that answers all of our problems.... its a broken world so obey these rules... its fucking shit
alexporterfield 5 months ago
11:20 Dumbski summarily says: God is just, and his actions, including murder, are acceptable behavior for a god.
Incrediblemouse5 5 months ago
@Incrediblemouse5 I can't help feel that if the actions of God are just, whatever they may be, is an argument against objective morality.
gamesbok 2 months ago
Man, Dembski is dumb.
MomoTheBellyDancer 5 months ago
Love, bonding, friendship exist because they are an evolutionary adaption. They work. It's not complicated. Too bad Dembski cannot see this. How can evil exist in nature? It occurs to me that it is in what you see not in what exists. Nature is just morally neutral.
zapkvr 5 months ago
Love, bonding, friendship exist because they are an evolutionary adaption. They work. It's not complicated. Too bad Dembski cannot see this.
zapkvr 5 months ago
Dembski does not understand evolution at all. The fact that nasty, horrible things occur in human nature is not a slight against the theory, it is evidence FOR it.
Besides, hypothetical reasons for why rape and infanticide exist does not justify those things.
SlaughterMeister 5 months ago 2
It's in the "Holy" Bible: Numbers 31
King James Version
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Would you let your children read that?
The "Holy" Bible is t he worst book of fiction ever written. It should be classified Horror/Fiction, not suitable for under 18
YMNTWTANKH 5 months ago 2
Wait wait wait...GOD is trying to make the best out of some bad options? And I was under the impression that he can do anything.
pythor2 5 months ago 15
@pythor2 Can't even believe he said that. That by itself is the strongest argument against what he defends. smh
joshrj7 2 months ago
"If we didn't nuke Japan we would've lost hundreds of thousands of lives."
This is ridiculous... Absolutely ridiculous. It's taken us a decade to kill 250,000+ innocent civilians in the middle east.
MrAnimated 5 months ago
Hitch at 8:12
3234718 5 months ago 36
@3234718 Thank you so much. I love you !
theenglishteacher33 5 months ago
@3234718 thanks, but I had already wasted a few minutes of my life only to see your comment afterwoods... ;-)
doyoublush 4 months ago
@3234718 Hitch at 13:05
shonpistoll 3 months ago
Dumbski isn't even following the thread in the debate. He has a cheat sheet with some points he needs to hit.
fjoo 5 months ago
I dont know why Demski even bothers to talk.
MrNellie2200 6 months ago
Hitchens' finale was just sublime. Sublime.
bradmax1 6 months ago
Anyone who attempts to justify Hiroshima and Nagasaki immediately loses a great deal of my respect. Anyone who does it in comparison to religious texts in terms of justification of what they believe, loses all of it.
TrEvADiZasTA 6 months ago
@TrEvADiZasTA
I have to say that both of those bombings can be justified rather simply. Had we not used the bomb, the war would have continued indefinitely costing millions of american lives as well as japanese. The amount of lives lost in that time would far surpass the number lost in the bombings. If anything dropping the bomb saved lives, specifically american ones. How could Truman have explained to mothers of american soldiers not using the bomb if it would have saved their son's lives?
trojan16 6 months ago
@trojan16 Because not only would a nonnuclear war have cost less lives in the long run, for the Japanese at least, but nuclear weapons are an atrocity. They scar the Earth and the people of those cities were innocent civilians who had to suffer the effects of radiation poisoning for generations to come. I'm not trying to justify that the Japanese were in any means 'in the right' on the terms which they were fighting, but what I am saying is that no one deserves that kind of warfare.
TrEvADiZasTA 6 months ago
@trojan16 Quite simply, the mother's of these soldiers knew what their son's had signed themselves up for and should have been prepared for their sacrifice in war.
The generations that suffered radiation poisoning because of those bombs did not sign up for it, had no choice in the matter and had nothing to do with the war.
American arrogance at its finest.
mrface19 5 months ago
@mrface19 Unfortunately, in war it truly is a matter of us or them. Say the U.S. hadn't used the bomb, the war drags on for another 2 years. The U.S. wins but is in a much weaker state. The USSR is put in prime position with the only other superpower not being so super. The USSR had no reason to believe the U.S. was a real threat. The cold war could have ended much differently had the Soviets not seen the lengths we would go. The Nuclear bomb was the stalemate that prevented sheer devastation.
trojan16 5 months ago
@trojan16 Sorry man... though I see what you're trying to say, I can't see any of that as a good enough reason to instantly kill hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT Japanese civilians and cause misery for generations afterwards. It's just not right. We may see things through different scopes... but I don't appreciate the idea of American posturing causing untold misery and death for others. I can't agree with it, I can't condone it, I can barely believe it.
mrface19 5 months ago
@mrface19 Well that's a hard position to argue. I certainly agree that the use of nuclear weapons is a horrible thing to come to, and I cannot think of another situation where I would condone it. There we can come to even ground and agree to disagree. Hey look at that, a youtube comment discussion without flaming. Nice!
trojan16 5 months ago
@trojan16 A rarity, I must say! ;-)
mrface19 5 months ago
Comment removed
TrEvADiZasTA 6 months ago
If Dembski is going to argue that god designed us to be social and moral...how is it we can be immoral? How is it so few agree on what "god" is? How is it that some people don't believe in any god? If your argument is that ANY evidence you have can be twisted to support your claim, even if one piece of evidence you use contradicts ANOTHER piece of evidence you use TO SUPPORT THE SAME CLAIM...you are either being grossly dishonest, or grossly falling victim to cognitive dissonance.
greyeyed123 6 months ago
at the end he should have been like "this is not morality....bitch"
Grater4576 6 months ago
The most important sociological and psychological effect of religion is to instill in people not just fear, but, apparently, a stunning level of cognitive dissonance and blindness. Why else would we have Dembski waxing about the proximity of atrocity to the atheist worldview and the naturalist viewpoint, while not even noticing the Biblical skulls his point is crushing in the process?
SurelyYewJest 6 months ago
squirm
religionruinsus 6 months ago
Ummm religion justifies infanticide very clearly in the Bible. Evolution doesn't justify it at all but it might help to explain and understand it.
robandre1 6 months ago
It's also asinine of Dembski to suggest that scientists identifying the behaviour in various animal species equals them justifying it as excellent behaviour. As if to say, "Oh, some animals rape in order to force their genes into the species when a female won't willingly take them. That means us humans must accept rape in our culture!" ... Umm. What? lol
chubbm 6 months ago 3
If "Christian Theology" is a real study... then so is Magic Conjuring and Witch Hunting.
redshark618 6 months ago 2
The funny argument in here is
Denmark, Sweden and other Scandinavian countries got the strongest social safety net, and universal health care, one could argue it is an self sacrificing deed for the common good.
Worth noticing Sweden is 87% atheists.
so morality seem like they got more morality then Christians in here who acts selfish and look after the rich all the time.
izaccy 6 months ago 48
@izaccy This is a bad argument. The Bible doesn't claim that the world can't act moral. In fact it teaches the opposite because that's how God holds all men accountable. Rather, only the Bible can "account" for morality. There's a HUGE difference between "accounting" for morality and "being" moral.
solaphyde 5 months ago
@izaccy
no shit, sweden is moral, i guess where wife swapping, sodomy, professional prostitution becomes moral. ya shitwit
warrior4just 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@warrior4just
"no shit, sweden is moral, i guess where wife swapping, sodomy, professional prostitution becomes moral. ya shitwit"
All of those scenarios you have listed are committed by consenting adults.
Who made you King to impose your "morals" on other people?
Shitwit.
Pigdowndog 4 months ago
@warrior4just Wife swapping and sodomy are only considered immoral through interpretation of certain religious dogma. What consenting adults do with their sexual organs is of no consequence to a society as long as no one else is hurt. Prostitution is immoral when a person is forced into it, through economics etc. All of these things exist in christian majority nations with more negative outcomes, like higher percentages of STDs in relation to prostitution.
whaddyta 4 months ago
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@whaddyta
what a fucking low life, and low attitude, u and ur motherfucking low culture, lowering a sacred union like marriage to immorality. immorality is not about if somebody getting hurt, it's about it's justified or right behavior, it's about the long term consequences when such matters become widespread and disorder from that. If that sounds oright to u, then i suggest looking into ur individuality and morals. damn i wann kill motherfukcers like u
warrior4just 4 months ago
@izaccy i live in a country with a fair guess would be 95% of Christians and the conditions of the country are awful, the rate of pregnant teenagers to the roof, murder in thousands per year there is no single week without a mass murder o somebody find a corpse, the traffic of drugs to the roof and not to mention some other things and all of us are christians thanks, minus me
legolasgreenleaff 3 months ago
Rape is an evolutionary adaptation ! Weasel's even rape very juvenile weasels( before they are independent) go google Dembski, or did your loving god designed this ?
Morclaw 6 months ago
If Dembski can quote from the Bible for his defense can Hitch quote from Star Wars?
Rocketryman 7 months ago
Hitchens just made an auditorium of new atheists.
Mrlukerative 7 months ago
@Mrlukerative Actually Demski just did lol
Mrlukerative 7 months ago
"And when the clan tore apart the prostitute, ipso facto, just god" ...wait what?
arshsingh1984 7 months ago
Demski is so incredibly stupid I almost felt sorry for him. He was certainly no match for the intelligence of Hitchens.
Igor340 7 months ago
Darwin = the first car.
Dawkins = the new car
Same thing, but beter. Stop telling about Darwin. Get updated!
RealfagVoss 7 months ago
Holy fuck that ending. If that's not a Hitchslap, I don't know what is. So fucking beautifully put, so incredibly worded, I almost got tears in my eyes!
M3t4lManiac 7 months ago
i love how dembski attempts to address what he terms "evil" in nature
a lion eating a gazelle is not murder
just because a water buffalo doesnt serenade a cow before he fucks her does not make it rape
evil requires reason
manonthemount 7 months ago in playlist hitchens v dembski nov 2010 debate
I wonder what repercussions were suffered by all the Prestonwood kids who applauded Hitchens. Guess nobody knew there was such a subversive lot right there on their campus.
fdasherv 8 months ago
At 14;57 this asshole does what every pathetic religious person does;
"God is god he can do anything" ... murder --genocide-- infanticide--slavery- etc
who are we to question god?? Who are we to question god's morality or decisions?
Really?
really?
Then why villainize the September eleven nut jobs? After all -- they were doing what was right in gods' eyes.
Oh I forgot -- They worship the wrong god.
Mindless nitwits !!!!!!
Dionysus5252 8 months ago 3
Hitchins likes the feeling of giving someone else a lifegiving fluid... Hahaha :D
Aetrion 8 months ago
6:42 "...you can argue for some good things out of [evolution].."
You mean... um... us, Dumbski?!
What a twit.
billygutter01 8 months ago
"God makes the laws, so he can't be against them." Oh, ok, I see. So Genocide and slavery ARE ok, and WE are wrong to say they aren't...
This is nonsense, and this idiot, Dembski, is dangerous.
bendon82 8 months ago 5
14:35 ...And that is the wisdom of god. "To be ordered well." Well said in the mocking words of Hitchens, and it's at that time that we realize that our free will is more than our will to rebel, but our will to live.
wordword31 8 months ago
10:10 I would like to add that The U.S. does not subscribe to the "manuals" of the bible for genocide.
wordword31 8 months ago
4:10 The Bible does not call unclean spirits ie psychopaths "children of god".
wordword31 8 months ago
Hey! The Christians turned on themselves too! and the Muslim's do it constantly these days. I wonder when atheists will start querreling over the tenents of their beliefs and kill eachother in as vast numbers as theists. probably soon I guess, since atheism is such a recent phenomenum *rollseyes*
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
Dembski's last part makes me think that he's retarded. He's a complete tool!
ILYIAB 8 months ago
system that comes to you????? where does it come from???? from religion!!!!!!
merjemke 8 months ago
Now I know why this video was censored, it contains graphic scenes of raaaaaape. Especially at the end...
derkederke420 8 months ago 2
Dembski: Humans commit geocide because they rebel against god by doing what god tells them to do.
wow, well im convinced, god is good, theres no getting around it, thanks for making it so obvious dembski..
gta747 8 months ago
The Greek had Socrates (whether or not he existed). Nevertheless, Christopher Hitchens is our new Socrates, and I dare you deny he existed.
someThinkingApe 8 months ago
Dembski was demolish in the first few minutes of the debate. He seems to have been improvising his arguments since them.
someThinkingApe 8 months ago
hahaha around 10:48 Dembski loses his argument indefinately, you can hear it in his breath
iandude 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
a bit of zen to prove any theist WRONG! can God make a rock so big that even he cannot lift it? 1) If he can then he is not all powerful because he cannot lift it 2) if he cannot thenhe is not all powerful because he cannot make it
iandude 8 months ago
fuck off, GOD is not judged in the same law, he made the law, jajajajajjaja if I was Hitch i would just walk away, there is no matter in losing time with this dude
MrLuiS3rd 9 months ago
@MrLuiS3rd RAGE POST! Sound like you heard some things you wish you didn't. The truth hurts when you live on that river in Egypt.
orbital40k 9 months ago
@orbital40k "God is a just god and he is not bound by the same rules that we are, he makes the rules and the fact is that we all die, this is a decision by god and the way the world is structured", Dude this is the lamest most ignorant and deluded statement. Humans we are just highly evolved apes, that a result of evolution we had fulfill our basic needs of food, shelter, etc, etc. With that fulfillment our brain has plenty of time to continue evolving and developing, also hallucinating stories
MrLuiS3rd 9 months ago
ahhhhh... that's why he was reading off a sheet. brutal...
tglass55 9 months ago 2
If God has a divine plan, it's his plan to have every theist look foolish in a debate.
I think I agree with God there. Even HE knows faith is silly.
BlckSbthMan 9 months ago 2
Yeah, I'm sure this slick haired, used car salesman mediator is really reading questions from the audience and just happens to be able to add such detail to the question himself.
ThePuzzler81 9 months ago
Wow...Dembski is really losing his argument in his own mind at this point...
He starts the debate on his broken front foot and then starts to falter and then starts to justify Hitchens side and then starts to get nervous and backtracks and makes mistakes and gets defensive by wavering his side.
BrokenBard 9 months ago 2
DEBMSKI really is stupid man...
hpsoap 9 months ago
"A fallen world"? Hmmm, Mr. Debmski, your god created this "fallen world" ...as I see it, you are digging a hole that you are putting yourself into, deeper and deeper...you seem childish, at best, to me.
JOHNINCOLUMBUS 9 months ago 3
Dembski: "The problem is, with a fallen world, there's no perfect optimisation strategy...God is a just god...he's not bound by the same rules that we are...he makes the rules..."
Just about everything you need to know about Dembski's refutation of Hitchens' sublime efforts. Insipid, mealy-mouthed circumlocution. I detest his type so much.
gefnanroolz 9 months ago
'This is a result of human rebellion against God'
So if you rebel against God you die in horrible ways? God sounds like a bit of a totalitarian shit.
Sauron012 9 months ago 2
Strawmen beware! Here comes Dembski!
ErwinERommel 10 months ago 2
I cannot BELIEVE that this guy represents himself elsewhere as a scientist. Nice job, Bill. You should leave the mask off so that EVERYONE can see who you are.
MrMZaccone 10 months ago
Secular morality means that people can do whatever they want.(while still having to deal with natural consequences for actions.)
Theistic morality means people can do whatever they want, (since God gave them free will) AND, God gets to torture them later, to no end or purpose other than pure revenge.
yeah, theism provides a MUCH better argument for morality....
Staunts 10 months ago
@Staunts Well said.
MrMZaccone 10 months ago
11:50 -Dembski loses the will to live :D
DrSpooglemon 10 months ago
@DrSpooglemon
muahahahahahahahahahahahaha
OdinLowe 9 months ago
An explanation is not the same as justification. The idea that evolution favours rape and infanticide it does not mean that these are morally acceptable...
DrSpooglemon 10 months ago
"God instructs the children of Israel to kill everyone of the other tribe [...] and to leave only the marriageable woman alive."
This being Prestonwood, I really wonder *why* people applaud after that.
Do they approve Hitchens point or God's instructions...
TomFynn 10 months ago
how can he argue that evolotuion made the girl kill her baby, i dont understand
696codeman 10 months ago
Dear Dembski: An explanation is NOT the same thing as a justification. This is a fundamental misunderstanding.
flemmasterj 10 months ago
I'm Dembski and I'm going to shout out slogans like "Atheism has it's own problems" then ramble on for a few minutes not even saying what those problems are then quote the bible saying it's a fallen world, after saying god is good and just because Jew's kill Jews and every one else too then splutter out some broken sentences
Sadochrist 10 months ago
I love how Dembski completely ignores Hitchens' rebuttal (in which Hitchens' points out that God gives authority for rape and genocide), and then Dembski goes on to say that "God isn't bound by the same rules that we are. He makes the rules."
igniteice 10 months ago
Haha, the most surprising about Dembski here was that he didn't become an atheist during his speech.
"God is only God" - lol, "only God"? That's an oxymoron. It contradicts the idea of God.
So, if God wasn't "only God", what would he be? And what is it that makes him "ONLY God"?
Oh yeah: he's dumb, foolish, vain, malicious and disorganized etc. That's why.
And then he offered a perfect illustration for that comparing God's inability to make good decisions with the Hiroshima bombings. LOL
amjan 10 months ago
Look at Hitchens. Look at the smug bastard, with his (uncharacteristically) silent smirk. He's just sitting there in his intellectual high horse, watching Dembski kill his own arguments without any help. God I love Hitchens.
JScarper 10 months ago 58
@JScarper All he's missing is a drink in his hand (When he came to my university, he sipped scotch during the entire talk. It was BOSS.)
cyranothe2nd 10 months ago 5
@JScarper I think you mean "By Science I love Hitchens" :)
Syphered08 10 months ago
And once again the biggest hole in the theist argument - that god orders slaughter for purposes that only 'he' understands- reduces the advocate Dembski's resonance to a dull thud.
mnaicck 10 months ago
I said in a previous video that Dembski's God is not an objective moral standard. Here, Dembski agrees. Vindication.
How "objective" is morality when God makes the standard and can violate it without being immoral? How much a "standard" can morality have when his actions are always moral, regardless of how immoral they would be if done by a mortal.
This is the brainwashing Hitchens warns about when he says there is no difference between God and Kim Jong Il.
dorsk188 11 months ago 3
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