@tykun101 Just look at John's face while he is being introduced, and listen to the host's tone. From my reading, it seems like Mr. Cage would like to be taken a bit more seriously, but the host plays the role of treating him like a clown by subtly mocking his "music," and frequently interrupting him. I'm totally down for zany, but also for heartfelt. I feel like the best combination comes when there is an initial serious approach to ridiculous material. Respect yields more joy than sarcasm. :D
@tykun101 I have no notions whatsoever of "serious music," but I believe all music should be taken seriously. I am a musician myself; in a band called "Triivlerackasaurus Rex." (triivlerackasaurusrex. blogspot. com) We're completely serious about being totally ridiculous. I fully understand "play," but sometimes fear that society at large just laughs that sort of thing off, not seeing the serious healing that play can bring. I feel like this piece is more of a meditation on modern life... ^^^
It would be nice to hear that without the simpletons laughing at every little piece, and without the radio censorship. I hope that we've come a little farther since this time, culturally speaking. I'd like to think this sort of performance art could be taken completely seriously today, but perhaps I'm dreaming. This man is a genius. If you don't see that, there's a lot in life that you're missing. ;]
@MrRiisLarsen Why do you want music to be taken so seriously? Your notion of serious music is one that has been around since Beethoven. I think it's about time that a cultural change of that order takes place. There's enough seriousness in this love-forsaken world. John Cage and others have put the 'play' back in music, by being playful and doing something odd for your and others' amusement. And that notion is the portion of his genius for which I am thankful.
Despite your best efforts, by calling the audience "simpletons" and disliking their laughter, you probably understand Cage less than this audience did. He intended that laughter. It was in fact part of the music. It was a random, ever-changing element, something that Cage found essential.
This is great. Cage has a wry wit--he's completely serious about his music, but he knows there will be laughter, and he lets that be part of the performance. I notice also--he didn't look at the music once. He had the whole thing memorized.
Well...this IS pretty far out. He was well aware that people would laugh, because he was a highly intelligent individual (and propably a genius (whatever that is)), and to him that must surely have been part of the music. It's an incredible clip, and musichistory in the making.
That would have ruined the music. John Cage made the audience part of the music. If you don't understand that, then despite your best efforts, you don't understand Cage's views on music at all. That laughter was entirely intended and is as much part of the music as the rest of the sounds. It's an unpredictable sound: each time it's heard, it's different - something Cage found essential in sound.
@Jaydoggy531 so basically any sound in any order is 'music'. that is nearly so vague as to be useless, and ignores the emotional impact that most consider a fundamental property of music.
@ImpreciseException I'm merely pointing out Cage's philosophy as a response to someone else's particularly snooty post - that doesn't necessarily correspond to how I view music though, no, just Cage's. Yes, Cage found every piece of sound to be music - it was more philosophical rather than entertaining (he was big on Zen Buddhism). The idea is when you examine sounds you normally don't, you notice minute details and complexities that can be deconstructed.
@ImpreciseException nah man, it doesn't... it might not appeal to you, but there was a lot of laughter in the audience, and laughter is an emotional reaction.
after listening to this i went to make myself some tea, and i suddenly noticed all those little sounds - the water boiling, the sugar hitting the bottom of the glass. I noticed that they have a rhythm to them. that was very enjoyable.
it made me understand something - whether or not this is music is a question of semantics. foremost it is an admirable artistic performance.
This is grand on so many levels, not the least of which is that the union gets in the way of proper performance of the piece! Ha! Very funny, and just brilliant. He always struck me as an incredibly generous and kind man.
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy The audience was actually very civilized compared to what it would have been like with a modern audience. Nowadays people would throw stuff at him and call him names. (plus, it is well known that on live performances he had a lot of sense of humor, you`re probably taking it more seriously than he himself did)
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy The most important thing when it comes to music of ANY kind is that it cannot be taken too seriously. Even though this is considered music, Mr. Cage clearly wasn't taking it that seriously; he played the piece as he wrote it, in the precise time intervals, but he would never tell you he considers this a great masterpiece. The amazing thing is that Avante Garde music like this puts the 'play' back in music. It should be fun, playful, and yes, even humorous to make music :)
Humor is created when one is subjected to the happily unexpected, and thus this act, whether he intended it or not, was hilarious.
Just as a good punch line is always one you didn't see coming, not a single movement in this entire performance could be predicted or fully explained. The audience was laughing because this act had all the workings of something brilliantly funny, and was delivered so dryly and seriously that it intensified this tenfold.
My washing machine has a distinct rhythm and pitch when it's in the wash cycle and a different rhythm and pitch when it's in the spin cycle. It's all very minimalist, but it's not music. I think it was Louis Armstrong (or was it Schoenberg?) who said that there are only two kinds of music---good music and bad music. Cage was actually capable of composing some good stuff, but this isn't some of it.
@nycsym it's the evolucion of composition, you cant be limited by 12 notes and some diferent sounds if you want to evolve, it takes time to understand, but once you get there you'll really apreciate this (sorry for my english)
@Macross100 si es evolución. si alguien hiciera una investigación sobre la evolución de la música desde la era medieval hasta nuestros días notaría que la música experimental, música libre, música de ruidos. etc. sería el único resultado obvio, claro, solo aplica a la música culta.
@zooland12 Can you say what music is? Can you say what music is not? Are you able to say that the sound of my fingers touching the letters on the keyboard of my computer while I write this is not music??
Music it´s not just simple ideas that an 8 year old can imagine... making noises with kitchen artefacts or "composing" a piece of slience!! I don´t find any genius in preparing a piano y making such kind of minimalist music.. not in classical.. I mean, it´s valid as an art expression, it´s music, it´s an interesting idea.. but.. that music to me, don´t have a musical weight.. ask Vengerov to play any Cage´s.. I don´t wanna argue anymore, I respect all of you, but I find very poor Cage´s music
you think I don´t understand what Cage does? Just Because I don´t find any rich elements in his music? C´mon... I´m a professional Classical musician and I love from Purcell to Lutoslawski, Brouwer, Atehortua, Hindemith... Cage it´s just concept... and under the concept of "concept" you can create a lot of crap art... like Baskiat or even Andy Warhol. I think Art is a very rich and profund way of expression.. but if you talk me about classical or contemporary music.. that´s a new level
you can call MUSIC, sound and silences... organized or aleatory... ok... so John Cage creates something that fit in that music definition... but, that music tendency has gone now... It was a period of music (a poor one) and it´s over.. serious composer are now writing eclectic, taking elements of the past, combining with new sounds and techniques...
That was fantastic. For me it was more about the action than sound. Wonderful version of storytelling meaningless actions. Thanks you for the upload x
Wow.. There's a strange resonance to the sounds.. And that was really nice of him to let people laugh. Laughing and happiness is a good thing after all, and people tend to take music too seriously to enjoy it =]
It´s ok music evolves, I got your point... Not all music has to be attached to certain dogmas, or rules... that´s necessary.. but.. I don´t consider cage music the next step... maybe ona step, a tendence.. but not a great legacy... it´s my opinion of course
@gridy999 People have different views on the definition of music.. and people like John Cage like to challenge them. You shouldn't insult other people's music just because they don't conform to your idea. If you listen closely, there is more than a slight concept or idea there; everything is so meticulously prepared and performed, reminiscent of the deluge of precise 'noise' that some expressionist pieces have. He was trying to further what he calls music, and we shouldn't discourage such act.
The thing that amazes me about John Cage and this piece is that when I watch the video I just see him making noises with everyday items....but if you close your eyes and actually "listen" to the piece its almost like a soundtrack to a movie. Some of you might get what im saying but anyway Cage is an essential key to music till this day!
schuber, tchaikovsky, shostakovitch, chopin, liszt, bach, beethoven, lutoslawski, bartok, ginastera, atehortúa, revueltas, brouwer, mozart, mendelssohn,. where are you???? we miss you!!!!! look at this!!!! help!!!! are we going to analize the form? the melody? the harmony? the rhytmn, the character, the texture, the sections, the contrapunctus, the beauty, the strength... ???? is there something more than a concept, an idea? it´s poor..
some people like metal music some other like hip hop and others like experimental or avant garde is it that so hard to understand morons! i laughed too but in a good way...
Must there be a meaning? Aestheticism teaches us to appreciate art for art's sake. We don't need a reason or story behind it -political opinions or expected cadences. We are in an age of art with no bad work. Only different.
i don't know howto thank you , this upload,estimated holotone...thank you thank you very much....from lima peru...south america capital of electronic music.This mr. and his teories was fantastic...also i am so fan of karlheinz stockhausse,,,cheers for them.
The way the business worked back then was so smooth, and I can't help but admire the initial banter between the show-host and the band-head, about whether or not they should skip the game, whether or not it would matter (they both knew it wouldn't have).
Seeing both worlds (extreme, cutting-edge science, and the business of early-American TV entertainment) entwined was a real treat that I don't think anyone watching this video would have otherwise have been able to bear witness to.
@treespunk, All composers can be compared equally, as all music is generated from the same creative source, the mind. @BlueCougar, I never said that this wasn't music, as referenced by the fact that said that I said this "music" sucks. This modernist movement was a grand failure. To me, if music is remotely marketable, such as that was marketable back when Mozart made his money, and now Andrew Lloyd Webber is, for example, then that is "good music". The rest is, subjectively speaking, bad music
Oh yeah, and to all who do like John Cage here, disregard everything I am saying, as yes, my opinions are a reflection of myself. But I represent a reflection of what the population thinks is beautiful. It is by no means correct, because there is no correctness in beauty- it just is. However, as said before, if you like Mr. Cage's work, that is great, I respectively applaud you actually, for having a discernment that, up to this moment I am unable to appreciate.
After listening to this "music" and doing a little studying of my own, I've come to a conclusion. This music sucks. I'm just being honest, comparing it to Mozart or Chopin! Come on! It has sucked ever since Schoenberg walked up on the soapbox and shook hands with Webern and the other guy and turned the entire Classical world upside down for nearly a 100 years. Please, lets not go the way Rap music is going, we all know where that is going; lets keep tonality in, please, have mercy people!
@hybridfox You seem quiet sure that these desires and intension's of the composer are somehow fabricated arbitrarily. All art is imitation. For me the twentieth century is a time of brutal honesty- 20 million dead from war and extermination by 1950. If that doesn't justify a lack of tonality with rigorous internal structures then what does?
@hybridfox You seem quite sure that these desires and intension's of the composer are somehow fabricated arbitrarily. All art is imitation. For me the twentieth century is a time of brutal honesty- 20 million dead from war and extermination by 1950. If that doesn't justify a lack of tonality with rigorous internal structures then what does?
Strange that when people don't like a composition they say they "don't know what it means", but I doubt they even look for meaning in compositions they like.
@SubliminalAttraction I think what they mean is, that they dont understand what feelings, what expressions the pieces had. I dont know whether this piece is funny, happy or sad. If you hear Bach for example you hear a feeling, and if you have a trained ear you hear also hidden messages in the music. Here i hear just noises. I dont want to say, that I dont like it. Its interesting...
The statement "audience is so hella retarded" is ironic, because John Cage would never be a guest on another mainstream game show again. At least he was taken seriously enough in 1960. Could you seriously imagine John Cage on The Match Game? Hollywood Squares? Keep in mind that people laugh during modern performances of "4' 33"" to this day -- and it's a perfect valid reaction. The audience laughter is perfectly valid on this game show.
In my honest opinion, I don't consider this music, but it is a kind of art expression of its own. Unfortunately the audio quality isn't the best (it was recorded in 1960, it's understandable!) but at least te audience people could just shut up.
Music is just an arrangement of sound, which this is. I've seen similar types of performances over the years and laughter from the audience often occurs. It's not ridicule, but enjoyment, surprise.
I don't consider music just "an arrangement of sound", but I think it should involve notes, scales, rhytm, musical instruments and at least one performer to develop meaningless expression of the soul. This kind of performance is interesting by another point of view, for what it represents, for its out-of-the-schemes-ness. And of course audience laughs, I did grin when he put the vase in the bathtub, but I wished they didnt do it SO LOUD, so that I could listen to the piece.
Cage provided the music for Merce Cunningham's dance troop in the 80's, beautiful and transendent. He In the orchestra pit with a stack of cassette players, looped tapes and piano. I miss them both.
I've changed my mind since the last comment. This is music but it's just really bad music(in my opinion) if I can't recognize it as music from hearing it than its not good music.
John Cage was certainly not precious about his music - unlike so many other avant-gardists. I suspect from looking at this he enjoyed this immensely as did the audience and how much more refreshing it is than the usual stuffed shirt atmosphere of "classical" music.
@cwarn56 , I agree, John Cage had a sense of humour and would not have been offended by the audience's laughter -- in fact, he was probably pleased and would most likely have considered that to be part of the piece.
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There is nothing intelligent or insightful about this. People can argue that it falls into the "definition" of music, but it is ridiculous. Don't condescend me with: "You have lack of understanding or appreciation"... This guy just shuns socially acceptable music and churns out "music" that makes my insides curdle. To consider this on the level of any classical composer or even modern-day songwriter is entirely delusional. You want progressive? Listen to Bartok or Scriabin.
@silentmason w/e you wanna call music is music, people talking is music. Some people are more right brain with music, after all it is art isn't it? People that approach things more with their left brain always question creativity, they don't understand just to have fun. They get over analytical and sour... Btw John Cage started the style of prepared piano.
@EricFinnerty Unfortunately I can't argue with you on that, considering it is only opinion. But I do get over-analytical and sour... Is it justified? To me it is, but perhaps I am missing his point. I just can't see what's fun about it. I am a creative person, I just find this to be... nasty sounding, and an excuse for an inability in traditional composition. Agree to disagree?
@silentmason, I agree but just like foods it may smell nasty, taste bad but I bet you the more you try it, the more you'll get to like it and you might perceive your next experience under a different light and might even change as a person...etc etc
Theres electronic artist Aphex Twin he has an album called Ventolin, which is medication for asthma and if you abuse this drug it can cause tinnitus, guess what the songs in Ventolin sound like haha
@silentmason the cataclysmic collapse of any structure is beautiful and fundamental to all types of evolution whether it be physical or mental. just because he tore down your ideas of what music is supposed to be does not mean that he is a dolt. structured music is a skill but original music is art and all art is about expression, either of self or of environment. if music is designed to send a personal feeling out to a group of people then he succeeded.
Man, every sound is placed exactly where it belongs! I bet Cage knew that everyone back then would listen this as comedy (some still do), but he preferred that in order to pass a message beyond his time.
Really lynchian.. This is genuinely creepy music and the audience is laughing. I can see why the laughter was planned, because watching it today it really adds something to it.
@OKOYA66 Depending on what we're calling intelligent. Today's viewers must have a wide knowledge of popular culture, science, and other socially relevant media. This was not expected of viewers at the time.
@happyface4444 some of the greatest musicians and artists out there cant even read or write. music (to me) is about feeling and interpreting vibrations in the air with your ears as if they were eyes seeing an event and widening in amazement. regular tempos and common arrangements have become the cornerstone for "music" today because it is humanity's greatest form of communication. it must be simple in order for many of us to understand and enjoy it. sad really that its all so generic nowadays
I feel that his noise follows the definition of music, but is about as much music as if you threw a bucket of paint into the air and when it was in mid flight that it would be called a painting. If his works are music then everything is music. I feel like music needs some type of tempo and key. You need top have sheet music for it. Now you can disagree with me, but that's why John Cage was a genious, I disagree with him, but he did change its idea forever.
@happyface4444 Cage did have sheet music for his performances, even the imaginary landscape pieces using radios. Non-traditional doesn't connote non-musical.
@tykun101 Just look at John's face while he is being introduced, and listen to the host's tone. From my reading, it seems like Mr. Cage would like to be taken a bit more seriously, but the host plays the role of treating him like a clown by subtly mocking his "music," and frequently interrupting him. I'm totally down for zany, but also for heartfelt. I feel like the best combination comes when there is an initial serious approach to ridiculous material. Respect yields more joy than sarcasm. :D
MrRiisLarsen 1 month ago 2
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@tykun101 I have no notions whatsoever of "serious music," but I believe all music should be taken seriously. I am a musician myself; in a band called "Triivlerackasaurus Rex." (triivlerackasaurusrex. blogspot. com) We're completely serious about being totally ridiculous. I fully understand "play," but sometimes fear that society at large just laughs that sort of thing off, not seeing the serious healing that play can bring. I feel like this piece is more of a meditation on modern life... ^^^
MrRiisLarsen 1 month ago
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MrRiisLarsen 1 month ago
He's sounds like the Brain, from Animaniacs.
SindiFur 1 month ago 2
what a clown...
smlhgfaz 1 month ago
looks like my daily routine
MrMushroom123 1 month ago
It would be nice to hear that without the simpletons laughing at every little piece, and without the radio censorship. I hope that we've come a little farther since this time, culturally speaking. I'd like to think this sort of performance art could be taken completely seriously today, but perhaps I'm dreaming. This man is a genius. If you don't see that, there's a lot in life that you're missing. ;]
MrRiisLarsen 1 month ago
@MrRiisLarsen Why do you want music to be taken so seriously? Your notion of serious music is one that has been around since Beethoven. I think it's about time that a cultural change of that order takes place. There's enough seriousness in this love-forsaken world. John Cage and others have put the 'play' back in music, by being playful and doing something odd for your and others' amusement. And that notion is the portion of his genius for which I am thankful.
tykun101 1 month ago
@MrRiisLarsen
Despite your best efforts, by calling the audience "simpletons" and disliking their laughter, you probably understand Cage less than this audience did. He intended that laughter. It was in fact part of the music. It was a random, ever-changing element, something that Cage found essential.
MaestroJaydoggy 3 weeks ago 2
John Cage 3:16
=)
natholomew 1 month ago
This man's a clown. I like it.
Fantasticifaction 1 month ago
this guy is the first troll
ben2nd 2 months ago 3
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A beautiful piece of American History. Thanks for uploading, WFMU !
antoninprochazka 2 months ago
Damn! Nobody's said anything about Mortal Kombat yet?
U got Caged! I said it.
youaremyoffspring 2 months ago
@youaremyoffspring
That was the first thing I thought of when I heard his name!
ChiRoxMySox 2 months ago
This is great. Cage has a wry wit--he's completely serious about his music, but he knows there will be laughter, and he lets that be part of the performance. I notice also--he didn't look at the music once. He had the whole thing memorized.
harrysmallenburg 2 months ago
Well...this IS pretty far out. He was well aware that people would laugh, because he was a highly intelligent individual (and propably a genius (whatever that is)), and to him that must surely have been part of the music. It's an incredible clip, and musichistory in the making.
Martvandelay 2 months ago
this laughts is part of his music at least for me
712423 3 months ago
Oh where are the days when your show could be sponsored by a pack of cigarettes?
jerrythetexan 3 months ago
This is music. It has a purpose, it is expressive, and it is organized sound.
Lyrictheac 3 months ago
81 people were in the audience laughing.
butohimitsex 3 months ago
I hate how the laugh. Its his music, it's not supposed to be humourous...
purplep30pl3eater 3 months ago
I'm so surprised he wasn't on drugs
MetalCookieMusic 3 months ago
John Cage laughed all the way to the bank!
vcupiano 3 months ago 3
Fantastic!
marioguidoscappucci 3 months ago
Agreed.
badger63119 4 months ago
es un genio y la maldita gente se ríe
paranoidclown01 4 months ago
nice that he had a sense of humour about it and didnt give in to ego
moralreef 4 months ago
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Hey everyone check out the probability of chance video on my channel!
Jusstfnsk8 4 months ago
Whilst lots of people like John Cage I highly think he should've gone into comedy instead...
Tifostudios 4 months ago
The host could have just as easily said "Dont laugh.. Laughter is not permitted. Be quiet and listen."
fossilfuelmusic 4 months ago
@fossilfuelmusic
That would have ruined the music. John Cage made the audience part of the music. If you don't understand that, then despite your best efforts, you don't understand Cage's views on music at all. That laughter was entirely intended and is as much part of the music as the rest of the sounds. It's an unpredictable sound: each time it's heard, it's different - something Cage found essential in sound.
Jaydoggy531 4 months ago
@Jaydoggy531 so basically any sound in any order is 'music'. that is nearly so vague as to be useless, and ignores the emotional impact that most consider a fundamental property of music.
ImpreciseException 4 months ago
@ImpreciseException I'm merely pointing out Cage's philosophy as a response to someone else's particularly snooty post - that doesn't necessarily correspond to how I view music though, no, just Cage's. Yes, Cage found every piece of sound to be music - it was more philosophical rather than entertaining (he was big on Zen Buddhism). The idea is when you examine sounds you normally don't, you notice minute details and complexities that can be deconstructed.
Jaydoggy531 4 months ago
@ImpreciseException nah man, it doesn't... it might not appeal to you, but there was a lot of laughter in the audience, and laughter is an emotional reaction.
MrVaffel 2 months ago
I forget that The New School has been around for so long. I think the name throws me off . Brought to you by Winston cigarettes !!! LOL
fossilfuelmusic 4 months ago
he reminds me of jean wilder in willy wonka!!
lerosethorn2 5 months ago 4
after listening to this i went to make myself some tea, and i suddenly noticed all those little sounds - the water boiling, the sugar hitting the bottom of the glass. I noticed that they have a rhythm to them. that was very enjoyable.
it made me understand something - whether or not this is music is a question of semantics. foremost it is an admirable artistic performance.
mkotisrael 5 months ago 23
07:49~ GoooD !!
jack23j 5 months ago
00:49~ GoooD !!
jack23j 5 months ago
I would've given anything to see that performance. If that audience had any idea who John Cage was or the impact he'd have on music...
r00t3d0ut 6 months ago
This is grand on so many levels, not the least of which is that the union gets in the way of proper performance of the piece! Ha! Very funny, and just brilliant. He always struck me as an incredibly generous and kind man.
muddybrookrambler 6 months ago 2
Too cool for words.
CodyRicheson 6 months ago in playlist Avantgarde music
Great stuff...
xyzllii 6 months ago
I can't stand the audience laughing
ThatSalvadoreanGuy 6 months ago 64
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy The audience was actually very civilized compared to what it would have been like with a modern audience. Nowadays people would throw stuff at him and call him names. (plus, it is well known that on live performances he had a lot of sense of humor, you`re probably taking it more seriously than he himself did)
ThePhilosorpheus 3 months ago
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy The laughing is part of the music.
N3ppyZ 2 months ago
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy That's the beauty of John Cage though, the laughter becomes part of the music.
SpaceRitual 1 month ago
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy Because it's ridiculous.
ainsleywalker 1 month ago
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy The most important thing when it comes to music of ANY kind is that it cannot be taken too seriously. Even though this is considered music, Mr. Cage clearly wasn't taking it that seriously; he played the piece as he wrote it, in the precise time intervals, but he would never tell you he considers this a great masterpiece. The amazing thing is that Avante Garde music like this puts the 'play' back in music. It should be fun, playful, and yes, even humorous to make music :)
tykun101 1 month ago
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy i like how he took it, such a good soul
MrPlumbrano 1 month ago
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy
Humor is created when one is subjected to the happily unexpected, and thus this act, whether he intended it or not, was hilarious.
Just as a good punch line is always one you didn't see coming, not a single movement in this entire performance could be predicted or fully explained. The audience was laughing because this act had all the workings of something brilliantly funny, and was delivered so dryly and seriously that it intensified this tenfold.
Elbenzo64 4 weeks ago
@ThatSalvadoreanGuy I like it, it would be naïve to assume they wouldn't laugh.
cjh666 1 week ago
My washing machine has a distinct rhythm and pitch when it's in the wash cycle and a different rhythm and pitch when it's in the spin cycle. It's all very minimalist, but it's not music. I think it was Louis Armstrong (or was it Schoenberg?) who said that there are only two kinds of music---good music and bad music. Cage was actually capable of composing some good stuff, but this isn't some of it.
nycsym 6 months ago
@nycsym it's the evolucion of composition, you cant be limited by 12 notes and some diferent sounds if you want to evolve, it takes time to understand, but once you get there you'll really apreciate this (sorry for my english)
homerosalazar 5 months ago
@homerosalazar No te confundás, no es la evolución. Es otra forma de hacer música, simplemente.
Macross100 3 months ago
@Macross100 si es evolución. si alguien hiciera una investigación sobre la evolución de la música desde la era medieval hasta nuestros días notaría que la música experimental, música libre, música de ruidos. etc. sería el único resultado obvio, claro, solo aplica a la música culta.
homerosalazar 3 months ago
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wow john cage obviously liked it in the butt
bbbworship 6 months ago
@bbbworship ROFL
JeezoozeChrysler 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
dream theater is better, MUCH BETTER
Iamcola65 7 months ago
NOT MUSIC!
zooland12 7 months ago
@zooland12 Can you say what music is? Can you say what music is not? Are you able to say that the sound of my fingers touching the letters on the keyboard of my computer while I write this is not music??
matematicaufes 7 months ago
anybody know where i can find the score for this?
RyanWilliams0702 7 months ago
Music it´s not just simple ideas that an 8 year old can imagine... making noises with kitchen artefacts or "composing" a piece of slience!! I don´t find any genius in preparing a piano y making such kind of minimalist music.. not in classical.. I mean, it´s valid as an art expression, it´s music, it´s an interesting idea.. but.. that music to me, don´t have a musical weight.. ask Vengerov to play any Cage´s.. I don´t wanna argue anymore, I respect all of you, but I find very poor Cage´s music
gridy999 7 months ago
you think I don´t understand what Cage does? Just Because I don´t find any rich elements in his music? C´mon... I´m a professional Classical musician and I love from Purcell to Lutoslawski, Brouwer, Atehortua, Hindemith... Cage it´s just concept... and under the concept of "concept" you can create a lot of crap art... like Baskiat or even Andy Warhol. I think Art is a very rich and profund way of expression.. but if you talk me about classical or contemporary music.. that´s a new level
gridy999 7 months ago
you can call MUSIC, sound and silences... organized or aleatory... ok... so John Cage creates something that fit in that music definition... but, that music tendency has gone now... It was a period of music (a poor one) and it´s over.. serious composer are now writing eclectic, taking elements of the past, combining with new sounds and techniques...
gridy999 7 months ago
That was fantastic. For me it was more about the action than sound. Wonderful version of storytelling meaningless actions. Thanks you for the upload x
lostmyshoes80 7 months ago
Wow.. There's a strange resonance to the sounds.. And that was really nice of him to let people laugh. Laughing and happiness is a good thing after all, and people tend to take music too seriously to enjoy it =]
audiobusting 7 months ago
It´s ok music evolves, I got your point... Not all music has to be attached to certain dogmas, or rules... that´s necessary.. but.. I don´t consider cage music the next step... maybe ona step, a tendence.. but not a great legacy... it´s my opinion of course
gridy999 7 months ago
@gridy999 People have different views on the definition of music.. and people like John Cage like to challenge them. You shouldn't insult other people's music just because they don't conform to your idea. If you listen closely, there is more than a slight concept or idea there; everything is so meticulously prepared and performed, reminiscent of the deluge of precise 'noise' that some expressionist pieces have. He was trying to further what he calls music, and we shouldn't discourage such act.
audiobusting 7 months ago
The thing that amazes me about John Cage and this piece is that when I watch the video I just see him making noises with everyday items....but if you close your eyes and actually "listen" to the piece its almost like a soundtrack to a movie. Some of you might get what im saying but anyway Cage is an essential key to music till this day!
DonnTrumpp 7 months ago
schuber, tchaikovsky, shostakovitch, chopin, liszt, bach, beethoven, lutoslawski, bartok, ginastera, atehortúa, revueltas, brouwer, mozart, mendelssohn,. where are you???? we miss you!!!!! look at this!!!! help!!!! are we going to analize the form? the melody? the harmony? the rhytmn, the character, the texture, the sections, the contrapunctus, the beauty, the strength... ???? is there something more than a concept, an idea? it´s poor..
gridy999 7 months ago
@gridy999 And where would we be if every composer stuck dogmatically to the 'rules' of form, melody, harmony, rhythm, et al.? Cage was a pioneer.
skinonskin13 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
would you consider to upload it on water-wheel[dot]net
a new online platform focusing on water as a theme and metaphor. Launch on 22 August 2011, but uploading is already possible! cheers
suzonfuks 8 months ago
I am always in trance while listening to this...
VukWolf23 8 months ago
i think these people are killing the song by laughing
crunkalac 8 months ago
Genius
toborexperiment 8 months ago
he forget laughs in his partiture
pensarbonito 8 months ago
scarily infront of his time....
jratcliffe91 8 months ago in playlist Pick Your Battles
some people like metal music some other like hip hop and others like experimental or avant garde is it that so hard to understand morons! i laughed too but in a good way...
digitaljesus012 8 months ago
@digitaljesus012 some people like one or more forms of music, some music is sound, some people are deaf
sleepytimejesse 8 months ago
JOHN CAGE WINS
FLAWLESS VICTORY
Definistrator 8 months ago 2
love it! i love cage uses everyday actvities to create music!
freestyle1198 8 months ago
I found this quite brilliant.
ChocolateTeddybar 8 months ago
Nice
FatBoySlim696 9 months ago in playlist Pick Your Battles
It's pretty lame that people were laughing at him, but I feel as though the laughter is part of the composition, especially when it's faint.
MrAugust767 9 months ago in playlist Pick Your Battles 7
will you just let the guy play....
alabski 9 months ago 2
And... not all of the instrument can make sound by him...
HeronOfHeaven 9 months ago
I don´t think he was understood they were laughing at him
elektronik75 9 months ago 3
I think, like most of Cage's music, it's better if you're not watching. It's about the sound. I think the visuals are distracting.
goldencricket 9 months ago 2
this is amazing
if you are a big john cage fan you will love
gabriel williams - the dissociation
chiledofthekorn 9 months ago 2
what a bellend
frazzlepuff 9 months ago
why the hell those stupid people are laughing...
tomekstable 9 months ago
@tomekstable I love what he's doing and people are laughing because it's funny. I laughed too.
bang2b 9 months ago
Must there be a meaning? Aestheticism teaches us to appreciate art for art's sake. We don't need a reason or story behind it -political opinions or expected cadences. We are in an age of art with no bad work. Only different.
miiwiiplay 9 months ago
@miiwiiplay agreed. what ever happened to art for art's sake?
zombiebackrub 9 months ago
@miiwiiplay "We are in an age of art with no bad work. " Have you heard Rebecca Black?
atimnie 9 months ago
man, cage was quite the fruit, great work though...
MtWaves 9 months ago
skip to 5:48 for the music
susanishardcore 9 months ago 35
@susanishardcore thanks!
schultinator 5 months ago
@susanishardcore music??
JimmyFakeGuitar 4 months ago
the laughs almost contrast the piece in an all too perfectly eerie way
Blackdragon5151 10 months ago
i don't know howto thank you , this upload,estimated holotone...thank you thank you very much....from lima peru...south america capital of electronic music.This mr. and his teories was fantastic...also i am so fan of karlheinz stockhausse,,,cheers for them.
autobahn303 10 months ago
OUR PANEL IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY WINSTON. IN CASE YOU DIDNT KNOW
richgilb 10 months ago
The way the business worked back then was so smooth, and I can't help but admire the initial banter between the show-host and the band-head, about whether or not they should skip the game, whether or not it would matter (they both knew it wouldn't have).
Seeing both worlds (extreme, cutting-edge science, and the business of early-American TV entertainment) entwined was a real treat that I don't think anyone watching this video would have otherwise have been able to bear witness to.
dabeshu 10 months ago
The Laugh of the audience made a complement to the performance of a genius.
guambrilla 11 months ago
"oh hai!" .. Sounds familiar..
Giesji 11 months ago
Mr John Cage certainly had a sense of humor besides the fact that he was a musical genius...
TurbojugendJoe 11 months ago
Great well done.........
What can I say... the music speaks for itself...
How tolerance to the new has changed.
Greetings from Ramsgate, Kent, UK.
alwerner49 11 months ago
@treespunk, All composers can be compared equally, as all music is generated from the same creative source, the mind. @BlueCougar, I never said that this wasn't music, as referenced by the fact that said that I said this "music" sucks. This modernist movement was a grand failure. To me, if music is remotely marketable, such as that was marketable back when Mozart made his money, and now Andrew Lloyd Webber is, for example, then that is "good music". The rest is, subjectively speaking, bad music
hybridfox 11 months ago
Oh yeah, and to all who do like John Cage here, disregard everything I am saying, as yes, my opinions are a reflection of myself. But I represent a reflection of what the population thinks is beautiful. It is by no means correct, because there is no correctness in beauty- it just is. However, as said before, if you like Mr. Cage's work, that is great, I respectively applaud you actually, for having a discernment that, up to this moment I am unable to appreciate.
hybridfox 11 months ago
Comment removed
hybridfox 11 months ago
After listening to this "music" and doing a little studying of my own, I've come to a conclusion. This music sucks. I'm just being honest, comparing it to Mozart or Chopin! Come on! It has sucked ever since Schoenberg walked up on the soapbox and shook hands with Webern and the other guy and turned the entire Classical world upside down for nearly a 100 years. Please, lets not go the way Rap music is going, we all know where that is going; lets keep tonality in, please, have mercy people!
hybridfox 11 months ago
@hybridfox mozart is a much different category than john cage. they shouldn't be compared
treespunk 11 months ago
@hybridfox It can be music. For you, it isn't. For other people, it is. You statement tells us more about you than about the music.
BlueCougar 11 months ago
@hybridfox You seem quiet sure that these desires and intension's of the composer are somehow fabricated arbitrarily. All art is imitation. For me the twentieth century is a time of brutal honesty- 20 million dead from war and extermination by 1950. If that doesn't justify a lack of tonality with rigorous internal structures then what does?
tomofield 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hybridfox You seem quite sure that these desires and intension's of the composer are somehow fabricated arbitrarily. All art is imitation. For me the twentieth century is a time of brutal honesty- 20 million dead from war and extermination by 1950. If that doesn't justify a lack of tonality with rigorous internal structures then what does?
tomofield 11 months ago
Comment removed
hybridfox 11 months ago
He is a Great Inspiration to us in TRANSVESTITEstallion
the Noisy Experimental Art-Noise Band...
Flower Power and Peace!
MrMushroomBrain 11 months ago
haha cigarette advertising at 3:31
thtsritesun1212 1 year ago 2
Strange that when people don't like a composition they say they "don't know what it means", but I doubt they even look for meaning in compositions they like.
SubliminalAttraction 1 year ago 37
@SubliminalAttraction I think what they mean is, that they dont understand what feelings, what expressions the pieces had. I dont know whether this piece is funny, happy or sad. If you hear Bach for example you hear a feeling, and if you have a trained ear you hear also hidden messages in the music. Here i hear just noises. I dont want to say, that I dont like it. Its interesting...
NiclasThobaben 10 months ago
The statement "audience is so hella retarded" is ironic, because John Cage would never be a guest on another mainstream game show again. At least he was taken seriously enough in 1960. Could you seriously imagine John Cage on The Match Game? Hollywood Squares? Keep in mind that people laugh during modern performances of "4' 33"" to this day -- and it's a perfect valid reaction. The audience laughter is perfectly valid on this game show.
mackrotube 1 year ago
In my honest opinion, I don't consider this music, but it is a kind of art expression of its own. Unfortunately the audio quality isn't the best (it was recorded in 1960, it's understandable!) but at least te audience people could just shut up.
Thanks for sharing.
liftmedown001 1 year ago
@liftmedown001
Music is just an arrangement of sound, which this is. I've seen similar types of performances over the years and laughter from the audience often occurs. It's not ridicule, but enjoyment, surprise.
earinsound 1 year ago
@earinsound
I don't consider music just "an arrangement of sound", but I think it should involve notes, scales, rhytm, musical instruments and at least one performer to develop meaningless expression of the soul. This kind of performance is interesting by another point of view, for what it represents, for its out-of-the-schemes-ness. And of course audience laughs, I did grin when he put the vase in the bathtub, but I wished they didnt do it SO LOUD, so that I could listen to the piece.
liftmedown001 1 year ago
john cage is the un-trollable musician
inkblotgod 1 year ago
"I consider laughter preferable to tears"
OMGmynameisLILI 1 year ago
Cage provided the music for Merce Cunningham's dance troop in the 80's, beautiful and transendent. He In the orchestra pit with a stack of cassette players, looped tapes and piano. I miss them both.
joeymcpherson 1 year ago
I don´t understand the meaning of this...
alfburuburu 1 year ago
if you just close your eyes and listen, this is great.
nightmare81777 1 year ago
wheres the batman
paramorenom1fan 1 year ago 2
wheres batman
paramorenom1fan 1 year ago
I've changed my mind since the last comment. This is music but it's just really bad music(in my opinion) if I can't recognize it as music from hearing it than its not good music.
happyface4444 1 year ago
John Cage was certainly not precious about his music - unlike so many other avant-gardists. I suspect from looking at this he enjoyed this immensely as did the audience and how much more refreshing it is than the usual stuffed shirt atmosphere of "classical" music.
cwarn56 1 year ago
@cwarn56 , I agree, John Cage had a sense of humour and would not have been offended by the audience's laughter -- in fact, he was probably pleased and would most likely have considered that to be part of the piece.
marcfedak 1 year ago
WATER WALK- BECAUSE THERE IS WATER AND I WALK
aguywhomakesmovies22 1 year ago
Why is what he wants to do first presented as a secret, but then told openly?
VitoPossilipo 1 year ago
er kanns halt!
kessecubana 1 year ago
er kanns halt
kessecubana 1 year ago
i bet the audience laughed so hard they had tears in their eyes, that makes it a part of the water walk
psychopathtoine 1 year ago
This is awesome. Very impressive.
standingonair777 1 year ago
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margretbarjghrts 1 year ago
Absolutely magnificent.
rimbaud100 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is nothing intelligent or insightful about this. People can argue that it falls into the "definition" of music, but it is ridiculous. Don't condescend me with: "You have lack of understanding or appreciation"... This guy just shuns socially acceptable music and churns out "music" that makes my insides curdle. To consider this on the level of any classical composer or even modern-day songwriter is entirely delusional. You want progressive? Listen to Bartok or Scriabin.
silentmason 1 year ago
@silentmason w/e you wanna call music is music, people talking is music. Some people are more right brain with music, after all it is art isn't it? People that approach things more with their left brain always question creativity, they don't understand just to have fun. They get over analytical and sour... Btw John Cage started the style of prepared piano.
EricFinnerty 1 year ago
@EricFinnerty Unfortunately I can't argue with you on that, considering it is only opinion. But I do get over-analytical and sour... Is it justified? To me it is, but perhaps I am missing his point. I just can't see what's fun about it. I am a creative person, I just find this to be... nasty sounding, and an excuse for an inability in traditional composition. Agree to disagree?
silentmason 1 year ago
@silentmason, I agree but just like foods it may smell nasty, taste bad but I bet you the more you try it, the more you'll get to like it and you might perceive your next experience under a different light and might even change as a person...etc etc
Theres electronic artist Aphex Twin he has an album called Ventolin, which is medication for asthma and if you abuse this drug it can cause tinnitus, guess what the songs in Ventolin sound like haha
EricFinnerty 1 year ago
@EricFinnerty Interesting!
silentmason 1 year ago
@EricFinnerty <3 Aphex Twin
taintcheeze 1 month ago
@silentmason Your argument is one of taste, not progressive styles or musicality.
Ematched 1 year ago
@silentmason the cataclysmic collapse of any structure is beautiful and fundamental to all types of evolution whether it be physical or mental. just because he tore down your ideas of what music is supposed to be does not mean that he is a dolt. structured music is a skill but original music is art and all art is about expression, either of self or of environment. if music is designed to send a personal feeling out to a group of people then he succeeded.
taintcheeze 1 month ago
I would kick off the public...
Thesagga 1 year ago
I would kick off the public...
Thesagga 1 year ago
Man, every sound is placed exactly where it belongs! I bet Cage knew that everyone back then would listen this as comedy (some still do), but he preferred that in order to pass a message beyond his time.
PROMITHEASMUSIC 1 year ago 3
Really lynchian.. This is genuinely creepy music and the audience is laughing. I can see why the laughter was planned, because watching it today it really adds something to it.
kurdt40894 1 year ago
Tv used to be so much more intelligent!
OKOYA66 1 year ago 4
@OKOYA66 Depending on what we're calling intelligent. Today's viewers must have a wide knowledge of popular culture, science, and other socially relevant media. This was not expected of viewers at the time.
stevenminson 1 year ago
JEROME V PLAYS A MEAN GUITAR
UsernameFantastique 1 year ago 23
I consider laugh preferable to tears. :D
etaloveswhoseline 1 year ago 2
Wonderful!! I put this on the facebook page JOHN CAGE'S 4'33'' FOR CHRISTMAS NUMBER ONE 2010
yugyuof6f67fo7 1 year ago
@happyface4444 some of the greatest musicians and artists out there cant even read or write. music (to me) is about feeling and interpreting vibrations in the air with your ears as if they were eyes seeing an event and widening in amazement. regular tempos and common arrangements have become the cornerstone for "music" today because it is humanity's greatest form of communication. it must be simple in order for many of us to understand and enjoy it. sad really that its all so generic nowadays
taintcheeze 1 year ago
I feel that his noise follows the definition of music, but is about as much music as if you threw a bucket of paint into the air and when it was in mid flight that it would be called a painting. If his works are music then everything is music. I feel like music needs some type of tempo and key. You need top have sheet music for it. Now you can disagree with me, but that's why John Cage was a genious, I disagree with him, but he did change its idea forever.
happyface4444 1 year ago
@happyface4444 Cage had sheet music for "Imaginary Landscape No. 1."
Ematched 1 year ago
@happyface4444 Cage did have sheet music for his performances, even the imaginary landscape pieces using radios. Non-traditional doesn't connote non-musical.
Ematched 1 year ago
Ma che cazzo ridono?!
EffettoChiaroscurale 1 year ago
'if you like this kind of music you are a communist'- bill o reilly
madcapoperator 1 year ago
@madcapoperator Oh, that Bill.
19Labrie63 1 year ago
@madcapoperator i find that offensive to communists.
UsernameInvalid08 1 year ago