I personally have no guilt over the events what so ever.
The war was not our fault. I know germans could have not probaly occupied the Baltic states or even start Operation Barbarossa yet alone establish the siege if not for the finnish front.
How ever russians must remember who attack who first.
Stalin had worse things to plan for us. He was going to destroy and russify Finland.
Those people in Leningrad died mostly because of Stalin
i respect germans- twice they stook the middle finger up to the world and said "do something and see what happens"
I dont blame them for ww1, ww2 however i place blame...and admiration. Yall did kick everyones asses up until stalingrad. America as always came to help in the end where they could collect the most glory.
the russians slaughtered raped and beat millions of either unarmed surrendered german soldiers innocent women and children i know the germans did the same thing but not on the scale that the russians had done and continued to do for the next several decades to come (including) the fact that they even shot their own soldiers that tried to retreat in the early times of the war.
@koldfusion110294 What is that shit you are smoking there? Don't talk rot. Germans had been animals, butchers, not human beings, nothing being compared with russians.
just FYI to you russians (ask me something if you want to know something from finland-ussr war) firstly to start ussr fired on their own border village near finland and said that finnish artillery opened fire when they did not, there was no artillery finnish artillery in finland-ussr border, so whit that exuse they tried to annex finland. And ask yourself russians, why finland would attack ussr in first place, when we attacked ussr we wanted to get our lands back, nothing more.
There's something wrong with the narrative in this video - statements like " the Russians suffered but their struggle was vindicated, the Germans suffered and their struggle was not." There is something anti-Russian here (and pro-Nazi perhaps) - historically there is no equality here - the Germans attacked Russia and were brutal to civilians and soldiers alike. The Russians did not start the war and the events here occurred on Russian land. Sympathy for Germans has no place here.
@tannenstein do tell me, were the commies nice to civies on route to berlin, i heard that they robbed and raped their way trough villages & cities (and then they annexed all baltic states though goverments & populance asked the commies to leave but they pointed the gun at them and said STFU!
There were no swedes there. As for the Leningrad thing. If we had done what Hitler asked Leningrad would have been gone..
It has been a curse to North Europe and the Baltic countries ever since Peter the Great defeated you swedish pussies and established the city of bones.
My Great Grandfather died In St.Petersburg blockade. He was trying to transport food and supplies to the starving people of Leningrad and he went under the ice on Lake Ladoga. My Great Great Grandmother was a Commissar in the Red Army.
There are NO KNOWN GERMAN CASUALTY KIA MIA COUNTS ... does any1 have an idea of it?.. I believe the german losses here were a hell of a lot.. at least somewhere around Stalingrad 500,000.
1-It's Soviet Union not Russia. 2-Germans had supremacy and blocked Leningrad. 3-If you cause suffering in the name of regime, do you expect mercy? Eye for an eye. And ''The Soviets suffered far, far more'' (emotional Johnatan Dimbleby). Soviets wanted alteration of the border with Fines. Fines disagreed. They fought well and lost and Soviets learned a lot of winter war to use against Hitler. Finish revanshism was natural, for SSSR was big threat. As Hitler fell, they fell with their ally.
leningrad was a bllodbath for the germans.2 armies(the 16th and the 18th) along with the 11th were stuck there whereas the germans were in despert need of resources in a lot of battleds on the south like Stalingrad and Kursk.if only the germand had conquered leningad, it would have been possible to win the war.if the germans were not so optimistic and arrogant they would have storm leningrad in 1941 or in early1942
It was like as if a hateful dwarf, after having dominated other weaker dwarfs, all of the sudden felt the impulse and self-confidence to attack a giant ...
You're a nincompoop. For all its giant size, the Soviet Union required assistance from another giant to defeat this 'dwarf'. You belong in a concentration camp.
@naltrexone23X ... I was wondering how can anyone call you a racist obamabot ... I don't really know what's yor stand in politics ... but 'racist obamabot' is too much ... could you please clear me out on this issue ...
As an American I always felt bad that the Finns were forced into the "Axis". When the Soviets invaded Finland the USA and Britain were definitely cheering for the Finnish troops brave defense of their homeland but the Germans were soon the only country to offer Finland any REAL help. My heart goes out to the Finns and I've always felt that they were among the "good guys" in American vernacular!
@r2raider That last comment u made was incorrect the Soviet Union invaded finland due to a border dispute and was bloody repulsed for several months untl the fins were forced to give in to stalins demands.
@MrAquafan You're wrong. I live in Karelsky Peresheek; and I hear a lot info from our veterans. Finland give access to German army land on their country and pass Leningrad for siege. And another reason - Finland capture our root terrotory - Karelia in WW1. Eternal Memory suffered the blockade ... My grandmother was in it from beginning to end. It's terrible.
@r2raider Give the name of german unit which used finnish land for attacking against the city. You are telling nonsense. There was not a single german unit which would have used finnish land for attacking against the city of Leningrad. If your veterans are telling you that there was german troops in Karelian Isthmus, they are wrong. Even Molotov said that Karelia belongs to finnish people. Watch the speech before the Winter War. Finland had nothing to do with the seige of Leningrad.
@r2raider Provoked how? By reclaiming the lands USSR stole from the Finns in the first place? By conquering some practically uninhabited (except by karelians, a finnic tribe) land in East Karelia beyond the old borders to buy us time in the very likely retreat phase against an overwhelming enemy? Nice excuses, then again, superpowers are all about that, to justify their mad bid for domination.
@r2raider how finns provoked soviets to attack,by so called mainila shots ? in fact finns could not even fire at that town because all their artillery batteries was already ordered to retreat from border few weeks before incident by manerheim to prevent such incidents .
@r2raider FYI still cabable to kick your ass like 70 years ago :D (nah but really get the history right, since i mean for example in north korea people (i have heard) hate americans, south koreans etc (do note that this is NK propaganda) that the western world has threatened them whit nuclear bombs, war etc, but the great (sarcams by me) north korean army/goverment will not succumb to the devil americans (i hate that kinda propaganda, COME CLEAN DAMIT!)
@r2raider Incredible bullshit! What the hell do they teach you guys at school over there in Russia. Outright propaganda and lies are clear signs of a still developing nation. I´m not going to get into an argument with you because you´re clearly brain washed. There´s no point of you even responding to this post because I don´t have the time and patience to deal with madness. I just wanted to say this.
@MrViuhu "I just wanted to say this. " than obvious troll. Haha, developing nation first fly into space. Lol. You may call us developing only because in this war died 25-27 million soviet people. "you guys at school over there" - again lol. If you don't bellive me, our veterans, then check wiki my little dumbass friend.
@MrViuhu "I just wanted to say this. " than obvious troll. Haha, developing nation first fly into space. Lol. You may call us developing only because in this war died 25 million soviet people. "you guys at school over there" - again lol. If you don't bellive me, our veterans, then check wiki my little dumbass friend.
Are you serious? Russia didn't offer us our independence on a golden plate, we had to fight and negotiate for it, first we had our civil war, where soviets supported the red guard btw, and we had to gain recognition from the international community.
Its absolutely ridiculous to thank one's former enslaver for his freedom when the enslaved had to actively struggle for it.
It's amazing the Soviet citizens of Leningrad survived and won the onslaught and starvation attempt by the Nazi and Finnish armies. Mannerheim had a total of 7 divisions attacking Leningrad alongside the Nazis, yet crimes from the Finnish side remain ignored.
-It seems that new Russian Federation does not care for realities and reflects this to new history.
In reality, Finns had nothing to do with the Siege of Leningrad.
Marshal Mannerheim was adamant in his orders not to cause any harm to that City. Finns never fired a shot towards the besieged City, so do tell the truth.
Like you do. In 1918, Mannerheim killed tens of thousands of Finnish workers, unionists, leftists, and labor activists. He attacked the Soviet Union along side the Nazis, interned Russian civilians into concentration camps, but he didn't want to harm Russian civilians in Leningrad? Come on! 7 divisions fought alongside the Nazis in the siege. Mannerheim was a lackey of German imperialism since 1918. And I'm not Russian.
You may not be Russian, but you parrot the glaring lies presented by the reds.
So, lets being debunking, shall we?
1. Mannerheim was the supreme Commander of the official Finlands army in 1918.
It was the Red Guard who begun the terror killing, and it only paused because the war started to go bad for them. Reds even tried to level Helsinki, but Viapori cannons had been disabled.
While tens of thousands did die, it was the direct result of their actions. If you disagree, then present it.
And you parrot the "poor little innocent Finland" of excuses for Mannerheim's crimes. The Red Guard was primarily working class Finns was wanted Finland out of the hands of a Czarist fanatic. They wanted the factories for themselves, not right-wing big shots. Tens of thousands were shot, frozen in camps with their families. It was only when the Finnish capitalists protests the killing for their labor force did Mannerheim stop.
Your very thought of the reasons for the Finnish Civil War is flawed.
-Socialistics did not want the war either, but fanatical Red Guards instigated it and the basic idea was to bring Finland to the USSR. -Do read on the socialistics within Finnish goverment.-
Red Guard was mainly factory workers and some poor farmers. White Finnish troops had people from every ladder of society.
Mannerheim was not in control, Finnish Senate turned Goverment was. Legal, standing goverment.
The idea of the Finnish Red Guard was to rid Finland of the Czarist remnants and capitalists, not bring Finland to the USSR which recognized Finland's independence after it was declared. The "socialists" in the Finnish government were Social-Democrats, like those who supported Kerensky in Russia. Try to think critically, kid.
-Finnish Red Guard would have taken Red Finland to USSR in a heartbeat. New information on Lenins opinions on this one will help.
Reds of Finland did have good demands, and those were met after the Civil War. The Socialistic-democrats were allowed to stay and no fascism was allowed to take root. Do look up the Lapua movement and how it was dealt with.
It's obvious that you talk of matters which you have no real information on.
2. Mannerheim had opted against actions, but opportunity to gain lost territories back from the Soviet Union was too good to miss. USSR had tried to conquer Finland and that war was fresh in mind.
Nontheless, it was the Red army who started that war also by bombing raids. Only after that did the Finnish field army attack.
If you fail to understand real reasons behind the continuous war, then I'll advice you to read on it.
That was the excuse. Mannerheim, a fanatical dictator and anti-Communist would've attacked the USSR with Germany even if Stalin hadn't started the Winter War, which was stupid and unnecessary of him. Germany secured Mannerheim's power in 1918. There are reasons, and there are excuses. You guys pull the latter.
This has been already told to you but Mannerheim was not a dictator more than Zhukov or Konyev ever were. And what's wrong with being anti-communist? That's like being an anti-Nazi in humanitarian terms. Finland had been recognized by the European powers already in 1917, and it was only after then when Mannerheim was appointed to lead the white army. There was no need for German enforcement of the fact. Germany had already offered the whole of Finland for the Soviets with the Balts and east Pole
@JapaninArmeija: watch?v=LM5aITVV9B0, this looks very much like what fascists to unions, militant workers, and leftists. Personal opinion is one thing, to participate in a fascist war effort is another. With Germany having offered Finland to Stalin, it interesting that Mannerheim joined the war on Hitler's side.
@JapaninArmeija: Well, then Mannerheim should've stayed out of the war altogether. Being that he signed Hitler's Anti-Comintern Pact even before the Winter War, I think he would've joined Hitler regardless of Stalin's idiotic venture into Finland.
3. Finnish army tried to reach the string of lakes to minimize the land mass to be defended. This meant that some part of the Soviet Karelia was also taken. Concentration camps were used to house unreliable (Russian) populance.
They were real concentration camps, not death camps.
-There was total of 27% mortality rate, but bear in mind that women, children and old folk were the main people there. Old people die.
Concentration camps actually had better healthcare than in Finland proper.
Just as much as American concentration camps were used to house "unreliable" Japanese populace. Women and children also die when subjected to malnutrition and extreme cold. The Finnish Army was certainly not as sadistic as their Nazi allies, but that didn't mean they were totally innocent for their participation in Leningrad when they approached it from the north. I hardly think 7 divisions were there for a little R&R.
Finland invaded the USSR with the Nazis. Did you expect them to just role out the welcome wagon? 7 divisions from Finland came from the North to assist their Nazi allies in bringing down their common enemy: it's called fighting a war.
Soviet Union started the Continuation War, with bombing raids. This happens to be a fact. Finnish Field Army was at the ready, because Reich had informed Finnish High command that they'd soon invade SU. But Hitlers speech that Finns would fight alongside Germany and its allies came as a resounding shock to the Finnish leaders. They tried to contact SU via diplomatic connections, but SU refused to hear.
Soviets started it, and I am intrigued from where you pull that 7 divisions all the time.
4. Finland suffered horrible famine during the Early years of Continuous War. This meant that lots of civilians, especially Finnish Karelians, died in Finland proper. This reflects the poor nutrition in the camps.
Siege of Leningrad...
-No Finnish shell fell there, Field army did not advance to the outskirts, no bombs were dropped by the FAF.
Finns did not harm the City at all.
-There were clear and strickt orders on that, feel free to look them up.
So Mannerheim had the ability to wage a war, while Finland was starving; could afford to kill Soviets but not feed Finland. Doesn't make and sense. I'm aware of the official notion about Finland being totally innocent. Looking at Mannerheim's politics, the Winter War, his lifelong allegiance to Germany; I'm sorry I don't buy that no Finnish shell fell on Leningrad. Why did Mannerheim host Hitler on his birthday?
Mannerheim was a Marshal, not a dictator. If Finnish Goverment had gone to war, it was his duty to make the best of it.
-In this case, Soviets had made the decision.
If you'd know history, you'd know that Mannerheim was against the Baltic Division coming to aid in 1918, but Kaisers Germany wanted to have as many former Tsar Russian nations as allies as possible.
Hitler came without invitation. Mannerheim disliked this leader, and the lighting of cigar was an epic wa to demonstrate this.
Smashing unions, and freezing working people in camps sounds like a dictatorship to me. Mannerheim didn't do a good job of showing he was against Germany giving him support in 1918 and 1941. I've heard the same arguments about Antonescu, Pavelic, the ROA, and just about every Nazi collaborator. Mannerheim's rosey reputation comes from the Winter War, nothing else.
-What blindness from your part... Kaisers Germany giving aid has zero to do with Finns buying war material from Reich Germany. Material which had been taken from Reich campaigns in the West.
So, if Reds would have won and there would have been all the people deemed "unreliable" by the communist leaders, they would have been given warm lodging and plenty of food...
-Get a grip in the reality and read these matters yourself, it's tiring to see that you have no clue.
I don't know. because I just read your previous comments. maybe because i'm russian and i have ugro-finnish blood. and i wanted about Mannerheim. He was sweden with german origins. He was high russian officer before 1917. i don't know how it's called. maybe traitor. during difficult time. world war I.
imagine. russian tsar felt. so everybody, not only finnish army generals have to disappear? everybody found his own business. so question. who will be? in russia? lenin?
was it so bad for finnish people in russia in 1910 compare with 1925 in finland for example as independent. what's difference?
(just look at my previous post, there are literally dozens of typos. best not post 1 A.M. anymore)
Tsar was dead, his generals were fighting against eachothers and the bolsheviks for domination.
Mannerheim was asked to invade Red Russian areas after the Finnish Civil War, but he declined. Not enough manpower and enough wisdom not to get involved.
White Generals of Russia could have had a fighting chance but they wasted their opportunities.
-It does give a nice cultural information on the former USSR, but without any info is given on the misdeeds committed by the Soviets themselves to other nations and to their own people.
And the information on the campaigns is all wrong, but that's due to the war-era news.
You only skimmed through this. But this is a full movie. Team was working on it, created sound to the black-white silent documentaries. You can find it in the imdb by typing 'loznitsa' (director's last name) and see movie 'blocada' (2006). It received award in polish movie festival
I will say one thing if it were not for the Red Army would nebylo you may ... USSR would win the war without the help of the United States and Britain. The war started suddenly, almost as soon as the USSR and Germany signed a pact not to attack. in this war, won the love of the motherland and not hlystaniya Stalin
It really amazes me all these people who 'discuss' 'IFs' 'WOULDs' and 'COULDs' ... when the final outcome of a historical event renders as futile all present wild-guessing of the 'IFs', 'WOULDs' and 'COULDs' ...
beepeelow --- DO you know that besides Germans , you had ,, Albanians , Romanian ,Croatian, Hungarian , Italian close to 3 million of them , , Baltic states nazis ... and the rest ,,, Do you understand that ,,, YOU think you can attack a country take part of it's land and than STOP and nothing is going to happen, DUMB DUMB DUMB ..
Hitler was so stupid in the end. If they put a little extra effort there and took Leningrad, they could have linked up with the Finns, destroyed the Red Baltic fleet, made the city a major port and naval base then cutoff the supply routes from Archangel & Murmansk
In reality, capturing Leningrad would not have really turned the tide. The Red Baltic fleet was not a major fighting force, nor were supplies coming into Russia through the Baltic. The Germans, despite their early successes, simply did not have the resources to defeat the Soviet Union.
But Leningrad would have been a great supply head with the port & the roads/rails that went east from there. much better than shipping all their supplies overland. Plus the Nazis could have easily moved east and cut the Soviet supply lines from Archangel/Murmansk. Prolly in the end they would've lost too, but they should have made sure the north end of their line was solidly anchored on a major port linked to the Finns.
The Germans could have actually won this war if they were moderate with their gains. They could have captured the Ukraine, Belarus and Baltic States and stopped there for two years. Locals in that country initially welcomed the Germans and would have set up local defensive armies.
True, there are a lot of good what-ifs and that is one of the better ones. Leaving Leningrad hanging open like that is simply a violation of good military strategy of having the end of your line securely anchored. Leningrad would have been a great German bastion and would have made the Baltic totally German
beepeelow, how are you? I don't understand your comment. Germans were occupying almost all European part of USSR in the 1941-1944. Full Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova and Russia until Leningrad-Moscow-Stalingrad line. It was war without rules. They couldn't stop. They couldn't give time to Russians for relax. My dad was in the red army. It was impossible like in somewhere maybe in western Europe to have some temporary boundary. it was war to death
Despite early success, the Germans were dangerously low on resources even by early 1942. The debacle in Stalingrad happened mainly because they overstreached their supplies and left a weak flank, defended by ill equiped and trained, mostly Romanian troops. After Stalingrad, there were almost no further German victories in the Soviet Union. It was the beginning of a two year retreat, culminating with the occupation of their capital by the very country they invaded.
They could have won the war if they'd have ignored the Soviet Union and pushed through the Middle East to the Iraqi oilfields. Hitler invaded the Soviet Union for purely ideological reasons. It was his biggest mistake.
Have you ever been in Finland? This is beautiful place and here ain't freaking prostitutes! I don't know a bout Poland, but Finland is much more place to live when it got it's independence than if it would be under russian rule!
Sorry, it was only response to the previous comment. it was more worse. Sometimes it happens. first - say, second - think. I know Finland. I have Kalevala. Also i was speaking about XIX century. Finnish people in Russia and native Americans in the North America. A little bit different situation. don't you agree? Check siege of Leningrad from inside:
@outskool100 Well that's your opinion. I don't think that poor people living on the streets and under-developed in human rights is better, nicer and stronger...
No you are all wrong. If stalin acted with greed, why he did not conquered whole finland after winter war? He had a chance but he didn't. This prooves you are all wrong. And Finland was ready to fight aalong side hitler even if stalin hadn't attacked them.
USSR needed protected flang near Leningrad (look on map), before predictable war with Germany. It was not greed. It was necessary to save USSR and European Russia.
That's not true. Russia was very paranoid that Finland would let Germany attack them from Finnish soil and also made a pact with Hitler to have Finland in Russian control. so how exactingly is that protecting Leningrad. They were greedy and wanted Finland back to their empire and look what they did to the Baltic countries and Poland. They didn't just want to protect Leningrad they wanted Finland itself is what they really wanted.
whoever attacked russia spent their more than a winter, there were a few summers as well. yet, they were still beaten by the russians. a pending question: is it really the winter or the determination and the unmatched courage of the people?
The Nazis marched through Sweden. Or was the Swedish sooo much milder..? LOL please.
Obviously that wasn't winter alone... But you can just compare the state of infrastructure of Sweden and Russia to understand what have happened there. Germans couldn't blitzkrieg Russia with no roads! And by the way just compare Red Army to Swedish one. Not to mention that Swedes were Blondes with blue eyes etc. so occupation wasn't all that as for Slavs which meant to be exterminated.
i am just disgusted at the very tone of the discussion.
look through the posts: people are suggesting what the Nazis could/should have done better to have exterminated the Russians, the Ukrainians, the Belorussians at a better rate which as you correctly mention was the nazis' objective.
Are the people out of their bloody minds? this mob-russia spree i have been watching for years now ... is surprisingly effective.
those people who give in to that anti-russian propaganda are blinded by their own stupidity, personal frustrations and the wish to mob another to make themselves feel better.
around 100 000 Germans fought the Nazis. i am proud of this. after the war it was clear to most (but still not all!) Germans: "NIE WIEDER". that means "never again".
"Never again" is not just about the germans and the russians, the germans and the jews, the germans and the poles, etc.
it means never again any mobbing because of one's nationality. it means THINK and BE ALERT to brainwashing. or do you really consider a NATION can be evil??
judging by some of the posts those people's grandfathers were among those who were "exterminating" die untermenschen.
The discussion here was just a mere speculation on how could war end. There is nothing wrong about that, it just shows how close we were to real disaster. Past doesn't affect the way I think about different nations, but I will talk about the past and I will comment on it. The only way to avoid repeating mistakes of WWII is to learn history and be aware. My family suffered from Germans before, now I'm going out for beer with my German friends. We are comfortable about the past.
This is what happens to you if you don't heed the warnings history gives us. Charles of Sweden failed to take over Russia during Peter the Great's Time. Bonaparte epic failed the invasion. History clearly tells us that any invasion of Russia is a military death trap.
I think an ivasion of Russia could end in victory. Though the army invading would have to clearly understand that you cannot do it quickly and for the leaders to prepare their military (i.e. very warm and insulated clothing and equipment that wont break down due to extreme cold).
I think if we wouldn't have halted our advance and instead joined the Germans in the attack of Leningrad and then cut the Murmansk railroad line, meaning no more crucial aid from USA to the USSR, Germany would've won WWII.
That, and especially if Hitler wouldn't have made some of his worst mistakes in 1940-41, would've no doubt ensured an Axis victory and a better Europe and world today.
...which is considerably easier to defend than the old borders. After this was achieved, Finland halted her advance and the lines pretty much stood still until the summer of 1944 when the Soviets launched their massive attack which was ultimately decimated by a series of decisive Finnish victories.
On the 25th of June, 1941, after bombings by the Russians from sea and air, Finland declared to be in a state of war with the USSR once again. We quickly retook the ceded territories which Stalin had taken in his planned "temporary peace" (he wanted to conquer Finland later in 1940 and then 1941 as Hitler had refused when the USSR asked for permission in the summer of 1940) but also advanced to East Karelia to the line of the "Three Isthmuses"...
On the 22nd of June, 1941, Finland was again attacked by the USSR. We did not want to fight an offensive war, like the video says, but we were considerably better prepared and armed for war than in the beginning of the Winter War (November 30th, 1939 - March 13th, 1940). This time we also weren't alone, with German troops in Finnish Lapland (though they never made any big progress during the war - unlike the Finns).
2:20 Did he kicked a dog out?
darkalemanbr 1 year ago
these series are great, i remember this watching 6 years ago on discovery channel. I learned the whole ww2 history from this.
Can anyone upload all of the battlefield series on youtube.
Thanks.
K0ck4 1 year ago
thats the worst mistake hitler ever did... the wrong war with russia...
devilcruiser 1 year ago
Mannerheim is not responsible for those people who died during the war.
Stalin, Molotov and Hitler are.
ss90ss444 1 year ago
I personally have no guilt over the events what so ever.
The war was not our fault. I know germans could have not probaly occupied the Baltic states or even start Operation Barbarossa yet alone establish the siege if not for the finnish front.
How ever russians must remember who attack who first.
Stalin had worse things to plan for us. He was going to destroy and russify Finland.
Those people in Leningrad died mostly because of Stalin
Britfags talkin about "finnish dimension"
ss90ss444 1 year ago
i respect germans- twice they stook the middle finger up to the world and said "do something and see what happens"
I dont blame them for ww1, ww2 however i place blame...and admiration. Yall did kick everyones asses up until stalingrad. America as always came to help in the end where they could collect the most glory.
stringerboi 1 year ago
the russians slaughtered raped and beat millions of either unarmed surrendered german soldiers innocent women and children i know the germans did the same thing but not on the scale that the russians had done and continued to do for the next several decades to come (including) the fact that they even shot their own soldiers that tried to retreat in the early times of the war.
koldfusion110294 1 year ago
@koldfusion110294 What is that shit you are smoking there? Don't talk rot. Germans had been animals, butchers, not human beings, nothing being compared with russians.
gunzcontrol 1 year ago
just FYI to you russians (ask me something if you want to know something from finland-ussr war) firstly to start ussr fired on their own border village near finland and said that finnish artillery opened fire when they did not, there was no artillery finnish artillery in finland-ussr border, so whit that exuse they tried to annex finland. And ask yourself russians, why finland would attack ussr in first place, when we attacked ussr we wanted to get our lands back, nothing more.
justmymage 1 year ago
hehehe yes. We and the germans did but alot of mines on the Gulf of Finland. Those mines made the entire Baltic fleet useless.
ss90ss444 1 year ago
There's something wrong with the narrative in this video - statements like " the Russians suffered but their struggle was vindicated, the Germans suffered and their struggle was not." There is something anti-Russian here (and pro-Nazi perhaps) - historically there is no equality here - the Germans attacked Russia and were brutal to civilians and soldiers alike. The Russians did not start the war and the events here occurred on Russian land. Sympathy for Germans has no place here.
tannenstein 1 year ago
@tannenstein do tell me, were the commies nice to civies on route to berlin, i heard that they robbed and raped their way trough villages & cities (and then they annexed all baltic states though goverments & populance asked the commies to leave but they pointed the gun at them and said STFU!
justmymage 1 year ago
Finland and Sweden fight the USSR against the overvlamming russans soldiers so even if sweden stayd out of the war we helped the finns anay way =)
loppan109 1 year ago
@loppan109
There were no swedes there. As for the Leningrad thing. If we had done what Hitler asked Leningrad would have been gone..
It has been a curse to North Europe and the Baltic countries ever since Peter the Great defeated you swedish pussies and established the city of bones.
ss90ss444 1 year ago
My Great Grandfather died In St.Petersburg blockade. He was trying to transport food and supplies to the starving people of Leningrad and he went under the ice on Lake Ladoga. My Great Great Grandmother was a Commissar in the Red Army.
Hatinonthehaters 1 year ago
There are NO KNOWN GERMAN CASUALTY KIA MIA COUNTS ... does any1 have an idea of it?.. I believe the german losses here were a hell of a lot.. at least somewhere around Stalingrad 500,000.
Sicj 1 year ago
finland ftw<3
kickstckle 1 year ago
1-It's Soviet Union not Russia. 2-Germans had supremacy and blocked Leningrad. 3-If you cause suffering in the name of regime, do you expect mercy? Eye for an eye. And ''The Soviets suffered far, far more'' (emotional Johnatan Dimbleby). Soviets wanted alteration of the border with Fines. Fines disagreed. They fought well and lost and Soviets learned a lot of winter war to use against Hitler. Finish revanshism was natural, for SSSR was big threat. As Hitler fell, they fell with their ally.
FilmRomMusDrawingWar 1 year ago
Its a credit to the finns they fought against the soviets early before the war..
HungerStrikeUs 1 year ago
@HungerStrikeUs yes and they fought very well with what they had
darthhvader 1 year ago
Did this series ever make it on to DVD??
FWDORA9 1 year ago
My great grandfather died there when he was delivering supplies to the starving people. His truck went under the ice on the Volga river.
Hatinonthehaters 1 year ago
leningrad was a bllodbath for the germans.2 armies(the 16th and the 18th) along with the 11th were stuck there whereas the germans were in despert need of resources in a lot of battleds on the south like Stalingrad and Kursk.if only the germand had conquered leningad, it would have been possible to win the war.if the germans were not so optimistic and arrogant they would have storm leningrad in 1941 or in early1942
lakas50 1 year ago
Should have listened to one of your top Generals Hitler.
IceRich05 1 year ago
the soldiers on both sides were victims of the fanatic dictators Hitler and Stalin and that was the strategy of them not the generals.
abm10399 2 years ago
an entire army group to take leningrad and moscow??
and one after the other no less..
no wonder they switched they plans....
kyle887923 2 years ago
It was like as if a hateful dwarf, after having dominated other weaker dwarfs, all of the sudden felt the impulse and self-confidence to attack a giant ...
fredhubner 2 years ago
You're a nincompoop. For all its giant size, the Soviet Union required assistance from another giant to defeat this 'dwarf'. You belong in a concentration camp.
Marschieren 2 years ago
Stick to the facts you ignorant fool ... now lick my boots ...
fredhubner 2 years ago
stupid
werderdiablo 2 years ago
So are you ... but your pimp never complained about it ...
fredhubner 2 years ago
@fredhubner: I like that. I remember reading something like that somewhere, can't think of who said it though.
naltrexone23X 1 year ago
@naltrexone23X ... I was wondering how can anyone call you a racist obamabot ... I don't really know what's yor stand in politics ... but 'racist obamabot' is too much ... could you please clear me out on this issue ...
fredhubner 1 year ago
As an American I always felt bad that the Finns were forced into the "Axis". When the Soviets invaded Finland the USA and Britain were definitely cheering for the Finnish troops brave defense of their homeland but the Germans were soon the only country to offer Finland any REAL help. My heart goes out to the Finns and I've always felt that they were among the "good guys" in American vernacular!
randy95023 2 years ago
@randy95023 learn history, fool. Finland provoke Soviet Union to attack.
r2raider 1 year ago
@r2raider That last comment u made was incorrect the Soviet Union invaded finland due to a border dispute and was bloody repulsed for several months untl the fins were forced to give in to stalins demands.
MrAquafan 1 year ago
@MrAquafan You're wrong. I live in Karelsky Peresheek; and I hear a lot info from our veterans. Finland give access to German army land on their country and pass Leningrad for siege. And another reason - Finland capture our root terrotory - Karelia in WW1. Eternal Memory suffered the blockade ... My grandmother was in it from beginning to end. It's terrible.
r2raider 1 year ago
@r2raider Give the name of german unit which used finnish land for attacking against the city. You are telling nonsense. There was not a single german unit which would have used finnish land for attacking against the city of Leningrad. If your veterans are telling you that there was german troops in Karelian Isthmus, they are wrong. Even Molotov said that Karelia belongs to finnish people. Watch the speech before the Winter War. Finland had nothing to do with the seige of Leningrad.
tupakki 1 year ago
@r2raider Provoked how? By reclaiming the lands USSR stole from the Finns in the first place? By conquering some practically uninhabited (except by karelians, a finnic tribe) land in East Karelia beyond the old borders to buy us time in the very likely retreat phase against an overwhelming enemy? Nice excuses, then again, superpowers are all about that, to justify their mad bid for domination.
ZimoP 1 year ago
@ZimoP Good comment =P
Sicj 1 year ago
@r2raider Hahhaa or Soviet occupied Finland's land in Winter War?
nguyenkhan202 1 year ago
@r2raider how finns provoked soviets to attack,by so called mainila shots ? in fact finns could not even fire at that town because all their artillery batteries was already ordered to retreat from border few weeks before incident by manerheim to prevent such incidents .
kitekotus 1 year ago
@kitekotus
Yea, it was a blatant excuse instrumented by the soviets to attack. Nazi Germany did the same thing to Poland a few months earlier, Gleiwitz incident
ZimoP 1 year ago
@r2raider obvious troll
harkovadm 1 year ago
@harkovadm you are lol. Just I know history of my country. Without falsifications.
r2raider 1 year ago
@r2raider no, you know propaganda, not history.
justmymage 1 year ago
@justmymage ^^ little angry neighbour.
r2raider 1 year ago
@r2raider FYI still cabable to kick your ass like 70 years ago :D (nah but really get the history right, since i mean for example in north korea people (i have heard) hate americans, south koreans etc (do note that this is NK propaganda) that the western world has threatened them whit nuclear bombs, war etc, but the great (sarcams by me) north korean army/goverment will not succumb to the devil americans (i hate that kinda propaganda, COME CLEAN DAMIT!)
justmymage 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@r2raider obvious troll
harkovadm 1 year ago
@r2raider Incredible bullshit! What the hell do they teach you guys at school over there in Russia. Outright propaganda and lies are clear signs of a still developing nation. I´m not going to get into an argument with you because you´re clearly brain washed. There´s no point of you even responding to this post because I don´t have the time and patience to deal with madness. I just wanted to say this.
MrViuhu 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrViuhu "I just wanted to say this. " than obvious troll. Haha, developing nation first fly into space. Lol. You may call us developing only because in this war died 25-27 million soviet people. "you guys at school over there" - again lol. If you don't bellive me, our veterans, then check wiki my little dumbass friend.
r2raider 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MrViuhu "I just wanted to say this. " than obvious troll. Haha, developing nation first fly into space. Lol. You may call us developing only because in this war died 25 million soviet people. "you guys at school over there" - again lol. If you don't bellive me, our veterans, then check wiki my little dumbass friend.
r2raider 1 year ago
@r2raider o
really what is that?
can u tell us how finland provoked soviet union to attack
120891314 1 year ago
@randy95023 Finland is an independent nation, thanks to Russia, check history. Also, Soviet regime is not Russia
hpopov 1 year ago
@hpopov
Are you serious? Russia didn't offer us our independence on a golden plate, we had to fight and negotiate for it, first we had our civil war, where soviets supported the red guard btw, and we had to gain recognition from the international community.
Its absolutely ridiculous to thank one's former enslaver for his freedom when the enslaved had to actively struggle for it.
ZimoP 1 year ago 4
For German group - central?
sevashab 1 year ago
@randy95023 you idiot
xomchik60 1 year ago
It's amazing the Soviet citizens of Leningrad survived and won the onslaught and starvation attempt by the Nazi and Finnish armies. Mannerheim had a total of 7 divisions attacking Leningrad alongside the Nazis, yet crimes from the Finnish side remain ignored.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
Ah, there are the Russian lies again.
-It seems that new Russian Federation does not care for realities and reflects this to new history.
In reality, Finns had nothing to do with the Siege of Leningrad.
Marshal Mannerheim was adamant in his orders not to cause any harm to that City. Finns never fired a shot towards the besieged City, so do tell the truth.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
Like you do. In 1918, Mannerheim killed tens of thousands of Finnish workers, unionists, leftists, and labor activists. He attacked the Soviet Union along side the Nazis, interned Russian civilians into concentration camps, but he didn't want to harm Russian civilians in Leningrad? Come on! 7 divisions fought alongside the Nazis in the siege. Mannerheim was a lackey of German imperialism since 1918. And I'm not Russian.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
You may not be Russian, but you parrot the glaring lies presented by the reds.
So, lets being debunking, shall we?
1. Mannerheim was the supreme Commander of the official Finlands army in 1918.
It was the Red Guard who begun the terror killing, and it only paused because the war started to go bad for them. Reds even tried to level Helsinki, but Viapori cannons had been disabled.
While tens of thousands did die, it was the direct result of their actions. If you disagree, then present it.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
And you parrot the "poor little innocent Finland" of excuses for Mannerheim's crimes. The Red Guard was primarily working class Finns was wanted Finland out of the hands of a Czarist fanatic. They wanted the factories for themselves, not right-wing big shots. Tens of thousands were shot, frozen in camps with their families. It was only when the Finnish capitalists protests the killing for their labor force did Mannerheim stop.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
Your very thought of the reasons for the Finnish Civil War is flawed.
-Socialistics did not want the war either, but fanatical Red Guards instigated it and the basic idea was to bring Finland to the USSR. -Do read on the socialistics within Finnish goverment.-
Red Guard was mainly factory workers and some poor farmers. White Finnish troops had people from every ladder of society.
Mannerheim was not in control, Finnish Senate turned Goverment was. Legal, standing goverment.
-Study, lad.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
The idea of the Finnish Red Guard was to rid Finland of the Czarist remnants and capitalists, not bring Finland to the USSR which recognized Finland's independence after it was declared. The "socialists" in the Finnish government were Social-Democrats, like those who supported Kerensky in Russia. Try to think critically, kid.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
Get this straight, illiterate on history;
-Finnish Red Guard would have taken Red Finland to USSR in a heartbeat. New information on Lenins opinions on this one will help.
Reds of Finland did have good demands, and those were met after the Civil War. The Socialistic-democrats were allowed to stay and no fascism was allowed to take root. Do look up the Lapua movement and how it was dealt with.
It's obvious that you talk of matters which you have no real information on.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
2. Mannerheim had opted against actions, but opportunity to gain lost territories back from the Soviet Union was too good to miss. USSR had tried to conquer Finland and that war was fresh in mind.
Nontheless, it was the Red army who started that war also by bombing raids. Only after that did the Finnish field army attack.
If you fail to understand real reasons behind the continuous war, then I'll advice you to read on it.
It was direct result of Soviet Agression.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
That was the excuse. Mannerheim, a fanatical dictator and anti-Communist would've attacked the USSR with Germany even if Stalin hadn't started the Winter War, which was stupid and unnecessary of him. Germany secured Mannerheim's power in 1918. There are reasons, and there are excuses. You guys pull the latter.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
Mannerheim was not in control. In fact, he was only the leader of the Military. Under rule of the legal goverment.
There cannot be a Military dicatator in Finland, our army is the very people.
German Reich was on USSR side during Winter War, because Molotov-Ribbentrop contract dictated that Finland was to go to USSR.
-Don't believe? Then read it for yourself.
Winter War was the thing that most likely saved USSR. The poor results prompted numerous reforms within the Red Army.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
This has been already told to you but Mannerheim was not a dictator more than Zhukov or Konyev ever were. And what's wrong with being anti-communist? That's like being an anti-Nazi in humanitarian terms. Finland had been recognized by the European powers already in 1917, and it was only after then when Mannerheim was appointed to lead the white army. There was no need for German enforcement of the fact. Germany had already offered the whole of Finland for the Soviets with the Balts and east Pole
JapaninArmeija 1 year ago
@JapaninArmeija: watch?v=LM5aITVV9B0, this looks very much like what fascists to unions, militant workers, and leftists. Personal opinion is one thing, to participate in a fascist war effort is another. With Germany having offered Finland to Stalin, it interesting that Mannerheim joined the war on Hitler's side.
hectorbolshevik 1 year ago
It is unwise to join the war on the side that wanted to conquer us.
JapaninArmeija 1 year ago
@JapaninArmeija: Well, then Mannerheim should've stayed out of the war altogether. Being that he signed Hitler's Anti-Comintern Pact even before the Winter War, I think he would've joined Hitler regardless of Stalin's idiotic venture into Finland.
hectorbolshevik 1 year ago
@hectorbolshevik
He didn't sign anti-Soviet ComInterPact. Finnish Government signed it in autumn 1941, not before the Winter War.
JapaninArmeija 1 year ago
@JapaninArmeija: You were right, I made a mistake. But even so it was still an alliance with Hitler, so Finland was still an Axis country.
hectorbolshevik 1 year ago
@hectorbolshevik
still not at war with USA, like Hungary or Romania.
JapaninArmeija 1 year ago
3. Finnish army tried to reach the string of lakes to minimize the land mass to be defended. This meant that some part of the Soviet Karelia was also taken. Concentration camps were used to house unreliable (Russian) populance.
They were real concentration camps, not death camps.
-There was total of 27% mortality rate, but bear in mind that women, children and old folk were the main people there. Old people die.
Concentration camps actually had better healthcare than in Finland proper.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
Just as much as American concentration camps were used to house "unreliable" Japanese populace. Women and children also die when subjected to malnutrition and extreme cold. The Finnish Army was certainly not as sadistic as their Nazi allies, but that didn't mean they were totally innocent for their participation in Leningrad when they approached it from the north. I hardly think 7 divisions were there for a little R&R.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
Ah, but if you'd know history, you'd know that Soviets had built huge and deep fortification lines opposing Finnish side.
-It would have taken the entire Field Army to break that and casualties would have been too much to bear.
Finns did not approach from the North. Finns did not harass the convoys going in and out and they did not severe the railways there.
-If you'd have studied on the matter, you'd know that.
But you have not.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
Finland invaded the USSR with the Nazis. Did you expect them to just role out the welcome wagon? 7 divisions from Finland came from the North to assist their Nazi allies in bringing down their common enemy: it's called fighting a war.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
Soviet Union started the Continuation War, with bombing raids. This happens to be a fact. Finnish Field Army was at the ready, because Reich had informed Finnish High command that they'd soon invade SU. But Hitlers speech that Finns would fight alongside Germany and its allies came as a resounding shock to the Finnish leaders. They tried to contact SU via diplomatic connections, but SU refused to hear.
Soviets started it, and I am intrigued from where you pull that 7 divisions all the time.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
4. Finland suffered horrible famine during the Early years of Continuous War. This meant that lots of civilians, especially Finnish Karelians, died in Finland proper. This reflects the poor nutrition in the camps.
Siege of Leningrad...
-No Finnish shell fell there, Field army did not advance to the outskirts, no bombs were dropped by the FAF.
Finns did not harm the City at all.
-There were clear and strickt orders on that, feel free to look them up.
Mannerheim disliked Hitler, by the way.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
So Mannerheim had the ability to wage a war, while Finland was starving; could afford to kill Soviets but not feed Finland. Doesn't make and sense. I'm aware of the official notion about Finland being totally innocent. Looking at Mannerheim's politics, the Winter War, his lifelong allegiance to Germany; I'm sorry I don't buy that no Finnish shell fell on Leningrad. Why did Mannerheim host Hitler on his birthday?
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
Mannerheim was a Marshal, not a dictator. If Finnish Goverment had gone to war, it was his duty to make the best of it.
-In this case, Soviets had made the decision.
If you'd know history, you'd know that Mannerheim was against the Baltic Division coming to aid in 1918, but Kaisers Germany wanted to have as many former Tsar Russian nations as allies as possible.
Hitler came without invitation. Mannerheim disliked this leader, and the lighting of cigar was an epic wa to demonstrate this.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
Smashing unions, and freezing working people in camps sounds like a dictatorship to me. Mannerheim didn't do a good job of showing he was against Germany giving him support in 1918 and 1941. I've heard the same arguments about Antonescu, Pavelic, the ROA, and just about every Nazi collaborator. Mannerheim's rosey reputation comes from the Winter War, nothing else.
hectorbolshevik 2 years ago
@hectorbolshevik
-What blindness from your part... Kaisers Germany giving aid has zero to do with Finns buying war material from Reich Germany. Material which had been taken from Reich campaigns in the West.
So, if Reds would have won and there would have been all the people deemed "unreliable" by the communist leaders, they would have been given warm lodging and plenty of food...
-Get a grip in the reality and read these matters yourself, it's tiring to see that you have no clue.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
@hectorbolshevik
-Oh, one thing I forgot to see through.
You view the prison camps as immoral, yet Reds had those aswell.
The reason for the long imprisonments was the fact that Finnish Goverment wanted to uphold legal avenues in the charge of the Red prisoners.
The process took time because of the number of people being accused of unlegal acts.
-Your precious Reds would have most likely done quick acts of annihilation, Whites went accoring to the law. And feel free to see how many Red walked.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
check siege of leningrad from inside:
watch?v=y4RdjV28qYY
watch?v=31G1MA4uVag
watch?v=I5oGr_ulxsA
watch?v=ASdD6HjA2YY
watch?v=p5ZHw16wfhk
watch?v=NpLxm1nXX3A
watch?v=RpTcxD9BMOM
y3623951 2 years ago
I skimmed through those.
Remarkable how such footage has survived and how it has not been used in documentaries.
-But; why did I need to see that?
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
I don't know. because I just read your previous comments. maybe because i'm russian and i have ugro-finnish blood. and i wanted about Mannerheim. He was sweden with german origins. He was high russian officer before 1917. i don't know how it's called. maybe traitor. during difficult time. world war I.
y3623951 2 years ago
My comments real historical data can be verified quite easily.
I WILL counter lies from people who should know better than post them.
Mannerheim is no traitor. How could he be? -Tsars Russia fell and he felt that he should return home and serve now independence Grand Dutchy.
He had served faithfully for 30 years and yet you try to call him a traitor.
Mannerheim was very much a Finn, although family Mannerheim was not of indiginous origin.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
imagine. russian tsar felt. so everybody, not only finnish army generals have to disappear? everybody found his own business. so question. who will be? in russia? lenin?
was it so bad for finnish people in russia in 1910 compare with 1925 in finland for example as independent. what's difference?
y3623951 2 years ago
(just look at my previous post, there are literally dozens of typos. best not post 1 A.M. anymore)
Tsar was dead, his generals were fighting against eachothers and the bolsheviks for domination.
Mannerheim was asked to invade Red Russian areas after the Finnish Civil War, but he declined. Not enough manpower and enough wisdom not to get involved.
White Generals of Russia could have had a fighting chance but they wasted their opportunities.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
Finnish people call the early to mid-era Tsars rule the Golden age, and that is the case.
-Tsar took personal control over Finland and Finnish Senate answered to Tsar alone.
Grand Duchy of Finland had her borders closed from the Russians.
-Russians had no say in Finnish matters.
Schools, railway, post-offices, road networks, industrial developement...etc. All that was given.
On top of that, Tsars armies provided the protectionn.
The Russification efforts was what alieneted us From Tsar.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
I recommend. Russian movie about Finland in WWII:
watch?v=A6MWS0Xqokk (did you watch?)
y3623951 2 years ago
Well, the very name is a nod towards the Soviet false notion of Finnish marksmen hiding in the trees.
The movie is fun, but compleatly unrealistic.
-Finnish troopers did not go about with German troopers in the Lappland war.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
I see, you know. What about this?
watch?v=Jfw2K0KobMA
watch?v=ltLMVmnoUmc
also with finnish participating. but this is a comedy. no politics. like dumb dumber. but afraid you also watched.
y3623951 2 years ago
This is a US documentary about Russia for american audience during WWII: watch?v=XJ86dIbsduY
y3623951 2 years ago
Wings of past eras rustles there.
-It does give a nice cultural information on the former USSR, but without any info is given on the misdeeds committed by the Soviets themselves to other nations and to their own people.
And the information on the campaigns is all wrong, but that's due to the war-era news.
ArmaFennica 2 years ago
You only skimmed through this. But this is a full movie. Team was working on it, created sound to the black-white silent documentaries. You can find it in the imdb by typing 'loznitsa' (director's last name) and see movie 'blocada' (2006). It received award in polish movie festival
y3623951 2 years ago
Russia still paying for this land lease. shame of americans.
y3623951 2 years ago
I will say one thing if it were not for the Red Army would nebylo you may ... USSR would win the war without the help of the United States and Britain. The war started suddenly, almost as soon as the USSR and Germany signed a pact not to attack. in this war, won the love of the motherland and not hlystaniya Stalin
FruitSeries 2 years ago
It really amazes me all these people who 'discuss' 'IFs' 'WOULDs' and 'COULDs' ... when the final outcome of a historical event renders as futile all present wild-guessing of the 'IFs', 'WOULDs' and 'COULDs' ...
fredhubner 2 years ago
beepeelow --- DO you know that besides Germans , you had ,, Albanians , Romanian ,Croatian, Hungarian , Italian close to 3 million of them , , Baltic states nazis ... and the rest ,,, Do you understand that ,,, YOU think you can attack a country take part of it's land and than STOP and nothing is going to happen, DUMB DUMB DUMB ..
aviomaster 2 years ago
Germany conquered 21 countries.. USSR not included.. nothing happened in any of those countries.. they just shut the fuck up and obey.. Dumbass
Poeskaas 2 years ago
excellent analysis by the narrator
Rico8458 2 years ago
Yup, i always said that AH had to take the north first, not the south. Moscow and Leningrad as main focus only.
Rico8458 2 years ago
Hitler was so stupid in the end. If they put a little extra effort there and took Leningrad, they could have linked up with the Finns, destroyed the Red Baltic fleet, made the city a major port and naval base then cutoff the supply routes from Archangel & Murmansk
jakefree25 2 years ago
In reality, capturing Leningrad would not have really turned the tide. The Red Baltic fleet was not a major fighting force, nor were supplies coming into Russia through the Baltic. The Germans, despite their early successes, simply did not have the resources to defeat the Soviet Union.
beepeelow 2 years ago
But Leningrad would have been a great supply head with the port & the roads/rails that went east from there. much better than shipping all their supplies overland. Plus the Nazis could have easily moved east and cut the Soviet supply lines from Archangel/Murmansk. Prolly in the end they would've lost too, but they should have made sure the north end of their line was solidly anchored on a major port linked to the Finns.
jakefree25 2 years ago
The Germans could have actually won this war if they were moderate with their gains. They could have captured the Ukraine, Belarus and Baltic States and stopped there for two years. Locals in that country initially welcomed the Germans and would have set up local defensive armies.
beepeelow 2 years ago
True, there are a lot of good what-ifs and that is one of the better ones. Leaving Leningrad hanging open like that is simply a violation of good military strategy of having the end of your line securely anchored. Leningrad would have been a great German bastion and would have made the Baltic totally German
jakefree25 2 years ago
beepeelow, how are you? I don't understand your comment. Germans were occupying almost all European part of USSR in the 1941-1944. Full Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova and Russia until Leningrad-Moscow-Stalingrad line. It was war without rules. They couldn't stop. They couldn't give time to Russians for relax. My dad was in the red army. It was impossible like in somewhere maybe in western Europe to have some temporary boundary. it was war to death
y3623951 2 years ago
Despite early success, the Germans were dangerously low on resources even by early 1942. The debacle in Stalingrad happened mainly because they overstreached their supplies and left a weak flank, defended by ill equiped and trained, mostly Romanian troops. After Stalingrad, there were almost no further German victories in the Soviet Union. It was the beginning of a two year retreat, culminating with the occupation of their capital by the very country they invaded.
beepeelow 2 years ago
They could have won the war if they'd have ignored the Soviet Union and pushed through the Middle East to the Iraqi oilfields. Hitler invaded the Soviet Union for purely ideological reasons. It was his biggest mistake.
redxenos 2 years ago
Is it just me or does anybody else think that the the soldier with the rifle in the snow from 0:51-0:59 looks eerily like Lister from Red Dwarf?
Jaidali 2 years ago
Comment removed
y3623951 2 years ago
Good God, is there at least one video on Youtube that involves Russia/USSR and doesn't have an angry "RUSSIA SUX" "NO U SUK" rant in the comments?
GhostOfTheSovietPast 2 years ago
no
guess why?
your0next0leader 2 years ago
I guess
y3623951 2 years ago
;-)
your0next0leader 2 years ago
gold time for the Finland and Poland was time as part of Russia. poetry, music, ... but now these areas produce only political prostitutes.
y3623951 2 years ago
Have you ever been in Finland? This is beautiful place and here ain't freaking prostitutes! I don't know a bout Poland, but Finland is much more place to live when it got it's independence than if it would be under russian rule!
Airsoftrisupetteri 2 years ago 5
Sorry, it was only response to the previous comment. it was more worse. Sometimes it happens. first - say, second - think. I know Finland. I have Kalevala. Also i was speaking about XIX century. Finnish people in Russia and native Americans in the North America. A little bit different situation. don't you agree? Check siege of Leningrad from inside:
watch?v=y4RdjV28qYY
watch?v=31G1MA4uVag
watch?v=I5oGr_ulxsA
watch?v=ASdD6HjA2YY
watch?v=p5ZHw16wfhk
watch?v=NpLxm1nXX3A
watch?v=RpTcxD9BMOM
y3623951 2 years ago
The Russians crapped out everything they occupied, be it the Czars or the worse Reds
jakefree25 2 years ago
@Airsoftrisupetteri finland a beutiful plave ha!!
russia looks bether nicer stronger
outskool100 1 year ago
@outskool100 Well that's your opinion. I don't think that poor people living on the streets and under-developed in human rights is better, nicer and stronger...
Airsoftrisupetteri 1 year ago
@Airsoftrisupetteri My grandmother was a finn, I lived
in Finland for a few months in 1956. What happened
to you people? You now are like Swedes, you are
'politically correct' and don't ever hesitate giving others
your opinion on how they should live. My finnish
grandmother had an expression 'Live and let
live'...I find finns today, are pedantic know it alls
thinking they are smarter and better than the rest
of us, which in reality isn't true.
fntime 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
me too hate russia!
akes17 2 years ago
seria bueno que haya vídeos en castellano.
jzzita07 2 years ago
No you are all wrong. If stalin acted with greed, why he did not conquered whole finland after winter war? He had a chance but he didn't. This prooves you are all wrong. And Finland was ready to fight aalong side hitler even if stalin hadn't attacked them.
TheBlindPowerslave 2 years ago 4
It's a bit anecdotal evidence, isn't it? It doens't 'prove' anything, you're not a general.
It's already something of a conceded point that Stalin was as much of a swine as Hitler.
isafos 2 years ago
I don't know how can you say that after what I said. Strange :)
TheBlindPowerslave 2 years ago
Don't be nasty. You skipped my first sentence and used the second one as a template for an attack. That was silly of you.
isafos 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Go Finland! You brother Sweden is still proud of you for fucking up those russian trolls.
antibulletdodger101 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I hate russia.
antibulletdodger101 2 years ago
save the pierogies
cfeicht23 2 years ago
kick their asses Finnish!
The Russians were very greedy and took land that wasn't theirs.
Kinda wish they didn't have to side with Germany though.
bf15thairborn 2 years ago 3
USSR needed protected flang near Leningrad (look on map), before predictable war with Germany. It was not greed. It was necessary to save USSR and European Russia.
RSDRPtheGreat 2 years ago
That's not true. Russia was very paranoid that Finland would let Germany attack them from Finnish soil and also made a pact with Hitler to have Finland in Russian control. so how exactingly is that protecting Leningrad. They were greedy and wanted Finland back to their empire and look what they did to the Baltic countries and Poland. They didn't just want to protect Leningrad they wanted Finland itself is what they really wanted.
hola122x 2 years ago
USSR never had any "imperial plans" about Finland (which planned an alliance with Nazi to take russian Karelia).
RSDRPtheGreat 2 years ago
wrong they made plans of what was to happen to Finland Estonia Latvia etc. learn your facts my friend
hola122x 2 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
Dear Russian, Ukrainians and Belarusians, & other ex-Soviet citizens, Jews, Americans, British & French, Czechs & Poles, ex-Yugoslavs and Greeks, & etc., & etc.,& etc....
communists, socialists & simple anti-fashists,
I congratulate you with the HOLY VICTORY DAY !
No one is forgotten, nothing is forgotten
shchvasilii 2 years ago
whoever attacked russia spent their more than a winter, there were a few summers as well. yet, they were still beaten by the russians. a pending question: is it really the winter or the determination and the unmatched courage of the people?
The Nazis marched through Sweden. Or was the Swedish sooo much milder..? LOL please.
denkanihn 2 years ago 6
Obviously that wasn't winter alone... But you can just compare the state of infrastructure of Sweden and Russia to understand what have happened there. Germans couldn't blitzkrieg Russia with no roads! And by the way just compare Red Army to Swedish one. Not to mention that Swedes were Blondes with blue eyes etc. so occupation wasn't all that as for Slavs which meant to be exterminated.
EnhancedNightmare 2 years ago
i am just disgusted at the very tone of the discussion.
look through the posts: people are suggesting what the Nazis could/should have done better to have exterminated the Russians, the Ukrainians, the Belorussians at a better rate which as you correctly mention was the nazis' objective.
Are the people out of their bloody minds? this mob-russia spree i have been watching for years now ... is surprisingly effective.
denkanihn1 2 years ago 3
those people who give in to that anti-russian propaganda are blinded by their own stupidity, personal frustrations and the wish to mob another to make themselves feel better.
around 100 000 Germans fought the Nazis. i am proud of this. after the war it was clear to most (but still not all!) Germans: "NIE WIEDER". that means "never again".
denkanihn1 2 years ago 2
Actually 17000, and they were from mixed marriages...
MariusOFZadar 2 years ago
"Never again" is not just about the germans and the russians, the germans and the jews, the germans and the poles, etc.
it means never again any mobbing because of one's nationality. it means THINK and BE ALERT to brainwashing. or do you really consider a NATION can be evil??
judging by some of the posts those people's grandfathers were among those who were "exterminating" die untermenschen.
Damn them.
denkanihn1 2 years ago 3
The discussion here was just a mere speculation on how could war end. There is nothing wrong about that, it just shows how close we were to real disaster. Past doesn't affect the way I think about different nations, but I will talk about the past and I will comment on it. The only way to avoid repeating mistakes of WWII is to learn history and be aware. My family suffered from Germans before, now I'm going out for beer with my German friends. We are comfortable about the past.
EnhancedNightmare 2 years ago
Sweden? You mean Norway
marcobagut 2 years ago
Ahh yes, pitiful mistake on my side.
EnhancedNightmare 2 years ago
This is what happens to you if you don't heed the warnings history gives us. Charles of Sweden failed to take over Russia during Peter the Great's Time. Bonaparte epic failed the invasion. History clearly tells us that any invasion of Russia is a military death trap.
altosax1st 2 years ago 7
"Russia is a military death trap." Especially with help of their old friend : Winter.
EnhancedNightmare 2 years ago
General Zima.
Nevenius 2 years ago 2
I think an ivasion of Russia could end in victory. Though the army invading would have to clearly understand that you cannot do it quickly and for the leaders to prepare their military (i.e. very warm and insulated clothing and equipment that wont break down due to extreme cold).
jayers2 2 years ago
This beginning music rocks! What is it?
June28July 2 years ago
pause at 6:25 the german is picking his nose!
dfranthony 3 years ago
He scratched his upper lip.
June28July 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I think if we wouldn't have halted our advance and instead joined the Germans in the attack of Leningrad and then cut the Murmansk railroad line, meaning no more crucial aid from USA to the USSR, Germany would've won WWII.
That, and especially if Hitler wouldn't have made some of his worst mistakes in 1940-41, would've no doubt ensured an Axis victory and a better Europe and world today.
FFulmenTheFinnish 3 years ago
No, Hitler was a Fascist so you're wrong.
June28July 2 years ago 3
"Crucial aid" from USA?!
In 1941?
Learn history of LeandLease!
Years, volumes and percentage.
Ha-ha-ha, you are uneducated dude...
archanticipator 2 years ago
P.S. But aid from USA saved millions of Russian soldiers' life.
It is not disputable.
archanticipator 2 years ago
You're the only one uneducated here. USA had been providing the USSR with military aid since the late 30s, not only via Lend-Lease, idiot.
FFulmenTheFinnish 2 years ago
...which is considerably easier to defend than the old borders. After this was achieved, Finland halted her advance and the lines pretty much stood still until the summer of 1944 when the Soviets launched their massive attack which was ultimately decimated by a series of decisive Finnish victories.
FFulmenTheFinnish 3 years ago 3
On the 25th of June, 1941, after bombings by the Russians from sea and air, Finland declared to be in a state of war with the USSR once again. We quickly retook the ceded territories which Stalin had taken in his planned "temporary peace" (he wanted to conquer Finland later in 1940 and then 1941 as Hitler had refused when the USSR asked for permission in the summer of 1940) but also advanced to East Karelia to the line of the "Three Isthmuses"...
FFulmenTheFinnish 3 years ago 3
On the 22nd of June, 1941, Finland was again attacked by the USSR. We did not want to fight an offensive war, like the video says, but we were considerably better prepared and armed for war than in the beginning of the Winter War (November 30th, 1939 - March 13th, 1940). This time we also weren't alone, with German troops in Finnish Lapland (though they never made any big progress during the war - unlike the Finns).
FFulmenTheFinnish 3 years ago 3