Inside Story - Belgium in crisis - 04 Dec 07 -Part 1

[thecritiquevirtuoso]

Flanders to the Netherlands and Wallonia to France... it's only logical.

[salimleking]

God bless Belgium :D

[pantherenebuleuse]

I am kind of laughing when I see Belgium dividing itself. This is the country that fucked up Rwanda with discrimination. My only regret is that they still don't turn out like Greece. Let them split and get weakened.

[rodtev]

@pantherenebuleuse you don't get it at all.

[iliaens7]

solution to the language problem: educate everyone in Europe in English (or even another mutual language) and really use it as the language in wich the governments, media, ... work

[jonadv]

The possible split is not a problem, it is a result of Walloon tirrany.

[viragemasta]

Belgium has several problems:

#1Wallonia is living beyond its means. Wallonia has the same per caputa NatGrossProd of the poorest regions in Europe (east of Hungary, east of Poland, southern Italy,...) Meanwhile Wallonia refuses to reform financialy and cut spending. Why not? Since everything is paid for by flanders, which generated 88% of Belgium's exports in 2007.

[viragemasta]

Belgium has several problems:

#2: this solidarity (which is kept all but transparant for obvious reasons) is no waranty for mutual respect. French speakers don't respect the flemish local customs. Even when settling in Flanders, Walloons refuse to speak Dutch/Flemish. This disrespect towards the flemish community isn't exacly facilitating the living together of two cultures, let alone easing the swallowing of sending billions of flemish euro's annualy to Wallonia. Biing the hand that feeds you.

[viragemasta]

Belgium has several problems:

problem #3 : Belgium is in fact a devided country. Flemish people (6mio) don't read Walloon newpapers, don't what walloon tv channels, don't know what walloon politicians stand for. And vice versa even more. No french speaking belgian watches flemish tv, reads flemish newspapers, more over, the flemish citicens are unaware of the war mongering in the walloon media towards flanders. The walloon media paints Flanders as a nazi pre war, ethnic cleansing, progroms, etc

[viragemasta]

Belgium has several problems:

problem #4 : legitimate flemish calls for modernizing the belgian governmental apparatus, calls for balanced walloon budgets, calls for wallonia spending only what they have, without robbing future flemish generations is dealt with arrogance. People and politicians who dare to touch this money subject are called warmongerers, nazis, separatists, dangers to the state, extreme right wing nationalists, etc... leading to absolute inertia,

[viragemasta]

Belgium has several problems:

problem #5 : Belgium has 6 governments and as many paliaments and assemblies. Paying all these ministers, their entourage, their merc's, their offices and representation is only one cost. The real cost is not enabeling a focused policy. These fragmented administrations spend micro budgets and doing so are unable to address problems properly. Switserland and Canada prove every day that a confederate multicultural nation can function, but they reformed decades ago..

[Archimedes555453525]

@viragemasta - I can't agree with you, the flemish don't bother to learn proper french and dutch isn't really the easiest language to learn. But language is just another excuse for the flemish seperatists to HATE the walloons. All these problems are due to bad intentions of the politicians. The flemish can speak better english than french because we look at american movies with dutch subtitles, should we do the same with francophone movies, we should learn french with equal ease, and vice versa

[FryNorth]

@Archimedes555453525

Its just as hard for a dutch-speaker to learn french as it is for a french speaker to learn dutch.

Its not really my country so not my bussisnes, but isnt that part of the problem, that you expect the flanders to speak french, but the walloons dont have to speak dutch?

And its ofcourse normal that the dutch-speaking part knows better english, because they,re both germanic languages thus easy to learn.

French is a romance language far harder to learn for a dutch-speaker.

[savagedefender]

@Archimedes555453525

i'm from belgium, flemish part

they teach us french from when we're about 10 years old and have french language coarses till the age of 18. so we can manage in french, it's only recently that some schools of the walloons learn their pupils dutch.

and oh yeah, we've also got a german speaking part ;-)

i speak dutch,french,english,german and a bit spanish :)

belgium is my town, the world is my country.

[Archimedes555453525]

@savagedefender - I agree that we flemish can manage, but many of us don't speak it fluently. It could be better, and I blame the lack of contact with the frenchspeaking world. French movies or series subtitled in dutch would be enough. And vice versa for Wallonia. I speak dutch, spanish and english fluently, my french could be better.

The world is my moon, the sun is my home... wait, does that make sense?

[savagedefender]

@Archimedes555453525

met m'n laatste zin bedoel ik dat we wat verder moeten kijken dan onze land/taal grenzen. je hebt wel een punt wat betreft een tv serie. ;)

[XxJ0b3xX]

Taking a neutral look at it makes it completely rudicilous.The system sux.The prime minister will always be elected by only half of the people.Thats not really fitting.I believe we should reform and get autonomy.That doesn't mean we need to go to war or build a wall.We can stay partners and the richer Flanders can keep on supporting the walloon but the pollitical issues can not be solved whitout reforming.More autonomy and close partners is my ideal.Fuck those who whine about extremism.Its not.

[ruudjuh16]

the best thing to do is to split belgium in 2 the flemish 6million got less power than 4 million walloons thats unfair for the flemish

[kenijnbeeste]

belgium will split, nothing to do about that, just see youre on the good side when it happens

[nr2sman]

belgium needs to be as one

[BelgianMusic]

who cares...

[rolle16]

wa ik hiermee bedoel is da et tog geen zin eeft, je zult tog nooit begrijpe wa ik bedoel

[AlAtar360]

toch* TOCH!

[AnubisEvalyna]

Don't worry ok, this is democracy at it's best.

At least we know what our leaders do. ;)

Things like this happen everywhere.

[pinkygirl1999]

we got no government again now... -_-

[lostinseganet]

No gov may be better than what we have :(

Americaaa F NO!

[rolle16]

we never had 1

[Setoke]

The "veilig naar school" poster was quite funny. They make it look like some propaganda poster to seperate Wallonia and Flanders. But it's just promote safer traffic settlements for students (at 7.30)

not really relevant to this subject but still, struck me as odd

[MasakhaneSA]

Yes, Setoke, this is typical of the news media - misrepresentation of the facts in order to "tell a good story" and make news more entertaining.

The same thing happened for decades in my country - the international news media created a distorted picture of South Africa, and specifically of the white South Africans.

[mikeverm]

we have 2 choices here,

1. Belgium splits

2. Flanders an Walloon stop existing and we become 1 real nation

[rolle16]

not possible...flanders abe walloon are 2 different people

[mikeverm]

Hou uwe mond man, da is net wa er hier mee opgelost word, geen taalgrens betekent 1 taal een stemming bam we winne

[rolle16]

hahaha gast we zijn al verschillend sinds de oudheid!! de huidige taalgrens was vroeger de grens van et romeinse rijk. dus we zijn altijd al verschillend geweest!!!

[mikeverm]

het is door belachelijke mensen zoals u da er geen oplossing komt stoeme extremist, waar geen wil is, is geen weg eh dwaas ;)

[rolle16]

gast hebde nu egt geleze wa ik geschreve heb? precies ni en je kunt er precies ook ni op antwoorde want je valt in herhale en je begint egt als ne onbeleefde boer te gedrage! tip: voor je gaat antwoorde,zorge ervoor da et zinning is en geen herhaling EN vooral begin niet uit te schelden!

[mikeverm]

LoL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA­HAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA­HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA­HAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH­A HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA­HAHAHA

Manneke toch leest gij eerst maar is wa ik gezegt heb mss dat u binnen een dag of 3 te binne schiet wa ik bedoel maja tniveau zal te laag zen zeker xD (Of Snapt Ge Geen Spreekwoorden?), En ja ik ben een boer probleme mee? Das dan u probleem en ni da van mij!

[rolle16]

wa gij zei was etzelfde wa gij dage daarvoor al zei : onzin . dat en dit was/is geen antwoord op mijn comment. weeral was dit een zinloze en ook nog ne meer breinloze comment van jouw. grow up and think before you answer something which is beyonr your league

[mikeverm]

Hahaha spreekt ma vloms ze dwazen do, zijt ge analfabeet fzo? ik heb al elke keer iets anders gezegt, en telkens stuurt gij hetzelfde antwoord en verwijt ge mij van da te doen dan ben ik breinloos? :D(gij hypocriet want ge hebt al 4keer het zelfde nutteloze commentaar gegeve(en geen enkel argument om mijn stelling te ontkrachten)) het zijn idioten zoals u die mij goed doen voelen!

[rolle16]

goed voelen? etzijde gij die mij uitscheld voor ne lager soort en ik sprak engels om u niveau te teste en zo te zien is die zo good als 0,0 btw tis ma 2x da ik zeg da jouw antwoorde op mijn quotes zinloos zijn, ni 4... nutteloos is het niet want wat ik zeg is juist

[mikeverm]

Sir, i'm a computer analyst, and you can suck a point on my english skill, and what does english have 2 do with this matter? (En wat nog meer bewijst da ge nen dwaas zijt is da mijn eerste comment al int engels was) Fool, zo good als 0 -> voor iemand die niveau wil testen maakte u eigen wreed belachelijk ;) En nu ga ik stoppen met te antwoorden want met kinderen kunde blijven discussiëren.

[rolle16]

volgens mijn weten zijde gij hier da begon en zijde gij hier da gedraagd als ne kind!!!

[mikeverm]

Jongeheer gebruikt het woordje Het niet blijkbaar en ne kind da zegge we ook niet he, sjans dat ik u niveau niet moet testen of ge kon meteen naar het BUSO

[rolle16]

gebruikt het woordje het niet blijkbaar????? ok that makes sense..goeie zin jonge!!

[mikeverm]

gebruikt het woordje HET niet, leer lezen analfabeet

[mikeverm]

of is het geen woord bij de jongeheer?

[rolle16]

boeie

[derodetongvandeleeuw]

The Dutch speaking part seeks to protect its language space and this seems completely justified. Just like the Catalunia speakers in Catalunia (Spain) or the French speakers in Quebec (Canada). More political autonomy or independence should do the trick. Their political representants are in favour of more autonomy. So let it be.

[derodetongvandeleeuw]

You have much similarity between political problems in Belgium, Spain, the UK, Canada, ... Can regions like Flanders, Catalonia, Schotland, Quebec, ... acquire the political, cultural and linguistic autonomy which the majority of their political representants are in favor of?

[CheshireQueen1]

If you split Belgium in two people will end up on the wrong side of the new border. Terrorism could possibly take hold. Groups attempting to change the shape of the two new states.

[Metaldude1945]

I hope that happens, because the walloons have taken territory which was rightfully ours!

[Julio4949]

lol, how completely brainwashed can you be... by the way, I'm lemish too

[derodetongvandeleeuw]

Allthough Dutch is the mothertongue of the majority and French that of the minority you can notice that the Dutch language space continues shrinking since the beginning of the Belgian state. Even now the Belgian capital, historicaly a Dutch speaking town, continues to be more and more French speaking. The same problem occurs with several Flemisch localities near Brussels. The French speaking parties are trying to enlarge the mostly French speaking part in depense of the Dutch speaking part.

[Metaldude1945]

Waals Brabant, Henegouwen, Frans vlaanderen, die zijn ons allemaal ontstolen!

[mikeverm]

tot in rijsel (Lille) zelfs op een bepaald moment toen bestond Wallonie zelfs nog ni ;) mja toen zijn ze erbij gekome en ze zijn bij ons komen wonen dus de taalgrens schoof op enz.... en nu zitte zij op meer dan den helft van ons land ;)

[Veemantjeuh]

Maybe we should just bring Flanders and Wallonie together... everything would be solved. Splitting Belgium would just be stupid!

I'm Flemish if you wan't to know

[zigodino]

ZWICKAU2006 easy dude i'm vlaams and if you frensh keep "non" that's what makes this crisis!!!

[jens254]

Those are the different languages, the German part is not an official "part" of Belgium it is a part of wallony..

[wimpie25]

So, it's of belgium too

[Julio4949]

You're not entirely right Jens. The German-speaking part even has its own parliament. But they indeed represent a 'small' community in number of citizens and don't have as many competencies as other regions.

[LmAoLoLRoFl10]

I'll always be Belgian

[TheMagereHeinz]

@LmAoLoLRoFl10  Don't be so sure about that :P

[kustomink]

VIVE LA BELGIQUE UNIE

[VlaamsNationalist]

Belgie barst! Flanders independent!

[Latexbrother]

9.03: that is right, i would like to see that here, one day.

Belgium is not going to split, though.

[bgturk]

Europe has too many languages. It is hard to imagine how people speaking so many languages will eventually integrate into one.

[sgelles]

do some research. india has WAY MORE languages and is a united state.  maybe it's just that europeans cannot exist without strife and/or war.

[bgturk]

India however has one common official language that all people speak. Europe does not. And for a community to function properly it has to have one common language as a medium for communication.

[sgelles]

in other words it's not the diversity of languages that is dividing europe but their failure to agree on a lingua franca -- which is exactly my point!

[jens254]

Correct, in Belgium there are only 2 (official) languages and in India there are way more languages..

[wybo2]

3 official languages, there are 27.000 germen speaking belgium

(27.000 isnt very mutch, so most media shut up about it, but if the country would split, they would join Luxemurg)

[jens254]

Correct, but as I said, Belgium only has 2 'official' languages.

German is a language that is spoken in a part of Belgium, but it is not one of the official languages..

[wybo2]

for how mutch do you want to bet?

and it is an official part of belgium to, they have there own very small governent, when i say small, its 3 ministers: 1 of culture, 1 of education, and an other 1

i give u 5 crates of beer (jupiler, no dutch junk) if ur right.

[jens254]

btw, the German speaking population is about 70.000 not 25.000 :s

They do have an own government, BUT they are a part of wallony. They are not a part of Belgium as Flanders or Wallony is..

Please don't get me wrong.. I really like the German-speaking Belgians and I think they get way to less attention from the rest of Belgium..

[wybo2]

you have 3 official regions in belgium

and 3 official communetys

the regions are:Flanders,Wallony and Brussels capital area (the region governments have to take care for infrastrucions like roads or industry-grounds)

The Communitys are: The dutch speaking communety, the french speaking communety and the german speaking communety (the communety takes care for evrything aboud cuture like radio,museums and education)

dont mix these up, the regions have nothing to do whit languages

[Poluxantis]

it is one of the official languages !

[Poluxantis]

are you a german-belgian ?

[wybo2]

nee, ne vlaming :p

[Julio4949]

Off course German is an official language... haven't you seen when MP's or ministers swear loyalty to the constitution?

[BurgundyXman]

I travel often to India. Kind of like the place however it's not that simple in India either.The situation between Hindi and Tamil speakers is remarkably similar to the situation in Belgium. India is far more like the EU then the US in that aspect. So your remark is plain nonsense

[sgelles]

there are WAY more languages spoken in india than just hindi and tamil. if in fact you do visit india often then my guess is that you spend all your time in hotel rooms or in corporate offices.

[BurgundyXman]

Bias, bias and more bias. You have never ever seen me in life and yet claim to know everything about my behaviour. I guess that's why we have all these problems in Belgium and..... yes in India as well.

BTW what has your comment to do with the relation between Hindi and Tamil? Maybe you could explain this a bit. I gues one is never too old to learn so to speak.

[wimpie25]

Its not about the language, its also about the fact that we're totaly split.

[Fultron]

Hey, it's just like in Canada with Quebec!

[chefgrad]

except it's not. :P

[BELGIANmovieHUNTER]

@Fultron the funny thing is that we in belgium look to Qeubec to see how they deal with such a problem and in Quebec they look to us.