Great Greek God Pan in Hellenism and Wicca Discussion

[carterharrington]

LOL I love your response to the emailer. The sender seems completely ignorant.

but keep loving pan, keep dancing, and keep laughing off the haters.

[villavillaforever]

you are always right oh beautiful witch and gift of the godess

[suckseedorsuckeggs]

some like apples,some like oranges,lets have a food fight and see how messy we can get

[qaplatlhinganmaH]

watch google video:

Thomas McEvilley on 'The Shape of Ancient Thought'

[Cardiffmike1]

Hi I'm a Hellenist and would like to clarify some of the points you raise. Hellenists generally don't see their religion as a part of the Neopagan religious tradition and get offended when other religions worship their Gods in a non-Hellenic manner.

Contrary to popular opinion magic does not have a place in mainstream Hellenic religion, it's considered at best hubristic and at worse impious.

Kind regards

Mike

[AmyNichole951]

@Cardiffmike1 if magic isn't part of the mainstream then why is Hermes the God of magic, among other things...and why is there Hermetic Magick?

[TalismanSkulls]

Stop Bitching, Wicca was invented by Gerald Garner. Pan was the name for an Arcadian god named Pan and sometimes called this God Pan Deus or Pan Zeus. Evidence has shown that there was more than one Pan and was likely an Older God absorbed like so many others into a refitted myth like they did with say Odin and say he was Mercury! Or like the "ROMAN" Catholics have done by absorbing pagan gods and goddesses in their pan-theon of Saints. Hmmm Pan-Theon. Interesting.

[TalismanSkulls]

Stop Bitching, Wicca was invented by Gerald Garner. Pan was the name for an Arcadian god named Pan and sometimes called this God Pan Deus or Pan Zeus. Evidence has shown that there was more than one Pan and was likely an Older God absorbed like so many others into a refitted myth like they did with say Odin and say he was Mercury! Or like the "ROMAN" Catholics have done by absorbing pagan gods and goddesses in their pan-theon of Saints. Hmmm Pan-Theon. Interesting.

[MysticTV777]

Hellenic Religion (a ethnic Religion) is totally different

from Wicca, New Age and Neopaganism. Hellenic

Religion-Philosophy-Paideia are a (unified) whole.

I really dont think that Wiccans worship Greek Gods.

They do not understand them.

[BeyondInfinium]

Από τον Κρόνος, Δοξάσετε Ο Ζευς. Δ ιος Γιος!

[kwsmoot3915]

all i gotta say is that even though I may not like a particular God or Goddess, i still give them the respect they deserve because they are deities either way and deserve that respect. remember what achilles did with apollo? he insulted him and got an arrow throw his ankle.

[greek1237]

@kwsmoot3915

Post Homer, that came around in 100 AD about. Pre dated that, most stories had a arrow in the chest or a dozen arrows or so.

[masterzeus1129]

I worship Zeus and Poseidon but also our god in Christianity.

[BPhire]

Wow. Wonderful combination. One can't just do it for ya, ay? Decided to why not just have some fun, ay?

Yeah. Ok. Great.

[masterzeus1129]

@BPhire Yeah I decided to have some fun. :)

[CrvenkapaBre]

Hahahaha ASK someone who's not that s-t-u-p-i-d, someone who studied greek and roman mythology, and knows greek language. " A PAN GROUP ", this is so, so sad. Learn something about european history, religion and culture n stop being so ignorant. There is much more about greek mythology, the heritage of great greek gods. This whole thing about "Zeus" and "Pan" groups is so sad, and hillarious at the same time. I guess Einstein was right when he said that thing about universe and human stupidity.

[pansgrove]

This was just a comment towards an email. I was not saying "my way is the only way" or anything else. Quite the contrary. And I've prob. been learning longer than you have. In general and from a "mythology" standpoint. I think putting people down is ignorant. It's actually called "trolling". If you want to make an educational video, I say go for it. Until then, please stop fuming.

[TechnoGraveDancer]

What the hell is Hellenism? And hail to the mighty lust of Pan!

[baphimote]

i think that this person makes no sence and pan the god of nature is much more inportant that zuez we can live without lighting if there no trees though well you cant breath then your screwed

[awhell666]

LOL! Ambassador of the pipes. Sorry..."of the pipes." you mean flute. You also spelled ambassador wrong and also almost got me too. Invest in a machine that underlines misspellings in little red dots.

[faunflynn]

I was named for one of Pan's name sakes. Faunus.

I was brought up by what I guess you would call pagans. Not Hellenists per say but certainly influenced by that tradition. I'm not aware of any Zeus worshipers. The Deus Faber in the guise of Viracocha yes, still big in Peru and Bolivia. The Wodinist's would be similar I suppose, but Zeus, no. Never heard that.

The closest out of all the Greek Gods and Goddesses is Diana. She is certainly one of the aspects of the Goddess of my Wiccan friends.

[AmyNichole951]

@faunflynn Diana is Roman but Artemis is Greek.

[DaGrkWebMaster]

Clearly you practise a religion that is mediaval in roots the person that you are responding to in this video clearly beleives in Ancient 12 gods of the 4th century B.C. The problem comes for him that Zeus is supreme and pan is another minor god. for you it is your main god in accordance with your religion. So both of you are right in your beleifs that share the same roots even if they are more than 2000 years apart in the religouse order that you follow. Tolerance and Respect is required here.

[pansgrove]

Very good point! Thank you.

[roman17870]

i hate it when people say your god or gods are not real

[me050652]

It's all an allusion, you can make it what ever you want it to be. You simply change the energy to what ever you like. We are all God, Omnipresent at all times, in all things. Tap in to the consciousness and create your reality.

[seanirishdancer]

zeus is more active then you think

[incohrence]

on a simple note Pan is a FUCK GOD and, the ambassodor of the PIPES

[avalonaviir]

Well the person who sent this letter to you isnt playing with a full deck of tarot cards.

~Daniel

[Leorio307]

As far as i know, wiccans don't worship things, what they do is getting in touch and in harmony with the nature and the spirits of nature, a spiritual relationship with their surroundings, am i correct or am i wrong???

[pansgrove]

It would depend on your choice definition of "worship". As "worship" could also be juust recogn. the connection between you and something else. Some people see worship as a connection and a communication "line" between them and something else.

[incohrence]

Stregheria is older than wiccans, or paggans and more powerful

[khattamshud]

all the indo-european peoples have a similar pantheon with a male sky god as the all-father. pan was the god of an eastern cult introduced to greece rather late. zeus is the true god of indoeuropean greeks.

[wiccan78]

Pan is my god :o)

[kateam1975]

pan is one of the old Gods

[rippanation]

lol i enjoyed this vid but you must also remember that most people will have a point to make about paganism without actually knowing what they are talking about lol, a massive difference between paganism is the fact that it has to be awoken inside personally without people knocking on your door tryng to discuss their religions, And for any people who are not pagan. How many of you throw bread or put nuts and treats out for various outdoor creatures? And now ask yourself why you do this?

[AxiomofDiscord]

If Zeus is so almighty why is he so easy to fool. Is not Primordial Chaos greater than all the deities that it spawned. You can argue that Chaos is not a deity. I would beg to differ with you, yet still if you start with Zeus as all powerful you forget that even he was descended from a race greater in "power" than the Gods. & these Titans had creatures higher up giving them life. The Greek Hierarchy of the Cosmos is deep. Going all the way back to Chaos that given mind & order became the Cosmos

[AxiomofDiscord]

I think that person is just trying to further fluff their own ego in a purely masturbatory way. I am Hellenistic in that my prime deity is Greek being Chaos/Kaos. I am though a a Chaote Discordian as my primary label and use other names for my deity. I call upon the spirit of Pan often and have been told I embody his spirit to the point I say I am his spiritual Son. I feel the bond and believe it to be real so I have great respect and closeness to Pan. To each there own I guess.

[pansgrove]

Awesome perspective. Thank you.

[Nipos007]

I do know that Zeus is more powerful then Pan and don't know why you should think otherwise? And I know that this guy don't just worship Zeus but all the hellenic gods with Zeus in the center as the the almighty god.

[Nipos007]

I totaly agree with the person, hellenism is more like modern religion.

[VarekMoon]

Sorry I have to say you make some great arguments,lol, though please try to be nice to me concerning my spelling. Anyways first of I want to let you all know that every single wiccan I've ever met has been the most easy going, fair and open minded people. So to all the ignorant persons that want to nit pick the small details about the wiccan beliefs.....*look at yourself in the mirror first* I know it's cliche to say, but it's sad but true.Thanks all!

Hiya pansgrove

[pansgrove]

Right. And I have been picked on non stop.

[GnomieBear]

I just watched this again and laughed and laughed at the comment about PAN being a little goat. Also...native styles such as dancing. I dance with that little goat and his pipes all the time!!!  I am not helenist or wiccan...I just enjoy a good party.

[pansgrove]

:p mAKES ME WANT TO MAKE GOAT NOISES!

[GreyMatilda]

Well, I'm a Hellenist and... um... what is this person TALKING about?

Hellenism is NOT like Islam or Christianity (why doesn't he include Judism?) at all. At ALL. To me it seems like this is a kid who was raised in a home under a monotheistic tradition (like a lot of us) but who cannot get the idea of one all powerful god out of his head! He's basically just taken the christian God and stuck the name "Zeus" on him.

The entire point of being "pagan" is to worship MANY gods, not just one. Ugh!

[pansgrove]

I totally agree.

[multifacetedmage]

Pan is a Exceptionally powerful entity and, anyone who has taken the time to actually do any studying up on the greek god pan would actually know that.

Pan was crucial in many ways to the greeks of old and, is still important to the greeks of today.

Especially, when u take into account that fertility effects all forms of life;

Not Just Humans!

[Hekatos89]

Oh my God! People think really that pan is a god! He´s an elemental, nothing more than that.

Sad...

[pansgrove]

Interesting perspective. I have heard of this idea before. I will have to make a video about this perspective. Thank you for sharing.

[Threskia]

Obviously a Greek wrote this, the pompous and know-it-all attitude is unmistakable. He is truly ridiculous and exhibits a very limited understanding of the ancient Greek religions. There are about 45,000 people in Greece that following their ancient religions and they are definitely not all Zeus worshipers. His feeble attempt to show Hellenism as a major religion is laughable. Being a Greek myself I am offended by these Greeks. I would love to comment more on this but I am limited to 500 words.

[ResplendentLotus]

In oral traditions, before people started writing things down, myths and stories were more variable and fluid and could change from telling to telling. Now people write things in books and want nobody to deviate from "the book" and there are a lot of different books out there plus different interpretations and new religions born all the time. I say As Spirit Moves you, you have your own relation with Deity.

[pansgrove]

Right. I totally agree with you. It is so illogical that people put such value on a label, when the Greek culture seemed so "labeless". It seems to me that the most valuable thing should be that I value and pay tribute to my gods, and they acknowledge me in this spirituality. But I guess some people think tha this is *not* the most important thing. That structure, the one that they like - is the most important thing.

[Neopagan2007]

He is hilarious. Sounds like a new convert to me. On fire for his patron but doesn't quite understand what he is talking about. I wouldn't be surprised if he used to be an evangelical Christian.

[ropesoflove]

The person who sent you that was a jerk, he should have never had told who to worship! I hate people like that! If he wants to worship the horned one as Zeus fine, and if you would like to worship Pan good! Im just as disgusted as you are. Hail Pan!

[TheCanadianSatanicUn]

LOL, PAN WAS A PARTY ANIMAL :)

[Socinus]

As a Hellenic Eclectic Pagan...this person seems a little...un-balanced.

[GnomieBear]

What the BLEEP are they talking about???

[fiacharrey]

Sounds like the guy is way off his rocker. How can anyone think Hellenism is monotheistic like the Judeo-Christian religions is beyond me. And having 20,000 adherents isn't much to brag about. By that logic, we should all be Christian, since they have the most people. (Though still only about 1/3 of the world population).

[Spellslinger2]

Whoever sent you that should mind their own business! How you worship the divine doesn't concern them at all. Who are they to say that their way is better? That letter is very childish and you shouldn't take it to heart.

[pansgrove]

Thanks! :)

[RomanPhilosopher]

Also, I think the Olympians as a whole are worshipped far more than Pan. If it got down to like the top 5 as individuals I'd say: Dionysus, Apollo, Pan, Demeter, then Aphrodite... maybe transpond a few of those... at any rate I think Zeus however deserves more prayer, offerings, sacrifices, etc, as he has the power if extreme immediate blessings or curses, of course, a true Hellenists follows their respected calendars (Athenian, Roman, etc) and worships all the Gods on their respected holidays

[RomanPhilosopher]

i tend to think of Hellenism is like Hinduism personally. Thats who i'd equate it too. And you know I don't really count Hellenism as Neo-Paganism