Heartland Libertarian Presidential Debate Part 1

[jmjfanss]

I Like Wayne Allyn Root more.

[jmjfanss]

I'm a right wing libertarian who believe the government should stay out of our lives and our business, I Do not big government at all, it doesn't work then and it sure don't work now.

[YoungIvyScholar]

I like that Gravel has a different colored chair... lol

[paperhandsunion]

Libertarian doesn't mean that all government goes away, it means that it stays within it's boundaries. We aren't anarchists we are supporters of small-government.

[cpblackangel88]

OK they need to put a little more money into this.

[Weeth]

im sorry forklow, but if you support "universal healthcare" you are not a libertarian. not even close

[Pazrayna]

for the libertarian party to succeed you have to accept the fact not everyone wants all of government to go away, but find the common ground that people want less government than we have now and that the 2 major parties aren't giving us that.

[evildevil97]

Mike Gravel for President! I can't fully consider him a Libertarian, but he's the closest to my own political ideoligy.

[bmtimv]

I am sorry I don't accept that gravel is a libertarian. Sure he values freedom but apparently not for the environment or healthcare.

[halvor311]

Yeah, he doesn't seem like much of a libertarian, but I think he is one. He's what I call a left-wing libertarian. He's for liberty but believes that there is a role for government to play

[scatpornpooboy]

I don't know about this Gravel guy. I'd vote for him over the GOP or Dems, but he seems to be closer to the later in ideology. Hell, he was running in their race till about 2 months ago. I'd like to see Root get the nomination.

[HughieGphiladelphia]

Gravel 08!

[NatureLegalized]

The clear choice - Mike Gravel!!!!!

[libertythor]

Mary Ruwart 2008!

[Cooman456]

She's a good candidate, but a lot of people would be turned off by her practically anarchist veiws. Gravel would be the best choice, though Ruwart isn't bad at all. Just too radical for the American people.

[mindtraveler2350]

I agree. Ruwart and some of the other Libertarians aren't bad, but they wouldn't be able to do anything against the real problems of America. Of the candidates, Gravel is the only one who has the experience, the know-how, and the ideals to lead the nation, and most importantly, empower the people.

[teejay1618]

Ruwart's a great communicator. She would be most apt to communicate the true message that the Libertarian party was founded on-not some watered-down politically-filtered message that some of those "Libertarians" are trying to sell. Gravel is one of those aforementioned phonies. He's a genuine liberal, but definitely not a libertarian. The libertarian message doesn't need to undergo such contortions. It needs to be communicated in its unadulterated form in order to induce real paradigm shift

[mindtraveler2350]

Gravel was definitely not a Libertarian (and neither am I). He is a true Classical Liberal (and if I am to be labeled, I guess I fall closer to that category). I think that the Libertarian shift to privatization will lead to the same problems, only with a different mask. Government is a tool... Use it as such and put it away when you're done.

And yet the Libertarians will be going through such contortions as you mentioned with the phony that was selected to represent your party. For shame!

[Magicguy15]

If I cook vote I would vote for Wayne Root.

[Cooman456]

Part 2 of why Gravel should get this nomination:

Barr also is against gay marriage, against abortion, and authored some of the patriot act. So, out of the two impressive candidates, who is the most Libertarian? I think Gravel is the easy answer. Barr had (deservedly so) his career ruined because of the vicious attacks on Clinton for having too much fun. And since then, no one has heard of him. But many have heard of Gravel, they remember his great energy from the Democratic debates a year ago.

[egosumabbas]

Bob Barr has come out against the Patriot Act, and in fact, he was the one responsible for the Sunset Clause to be put in there so that the Patriot Act would not become a permanent law.

Also, Clinton was not impeached for "having too much fun", but for lying under oath (perjury).

About abortion, many libertarians are pro-life because they believe a right to life overrides the right to privacy in that situation. For a summary of that, look up "Libertarian perspectives on abortion" in wikipedia.

[egosumabbas]

I don't know if Bob Barr has changed his views on gay marriage. I *do* know he thinks that "don't ask don't tell" is a silly policy.

Technically, the government shouldn't even be in the marriage business--it is a contract between two consenting adults and/or a religious ceremony. The only reason why the government got involved was for tax reasons and (this may shock you) eugenics reasons.

[Cooman456]

Yeah, the government shouldn't be allowed in the marriage bussiness- gays should be allowed to get married, and not have the GOVERNMENT say no! The in the heart of every Libertarian is ideal: less government! Is the government dictating a woman's body more government or less? To me, the answer is quite simple. Plus, Barr is anti-abortion, yet his first wife had an abortion while they were married! This man hypocrisy is clearly visibal, and I don't think that's what the Libertarians stand for.

[egosumabbas]

There are plenty of pro-life libertarians. You have advanced the pro-choice position: a woman has total control over her own body, regardless if another life is in her own body. Pro-life libertarians would argue that the state can intervene to defend the life of a child (born-or unborn) from the aggressions of its mother. There is a middle ground: the "evictionist" position (google it), and the pragmatist position (early-term abortion and miscarriage are indistinguishable).

[chaserehn]

Why are we debating abortion. There are much more important issues as stake. but i guess thats just how i feel ;)

[egosumabbas]

Just pointing out that there's no litmus test on the abortion issue to be a libertarian.

[chaserehn]

Ya i guess its just not my issue of choice but for some it may be the only issue And thats ok

[Cooman456]

But having a state intervene means more government.

[egosumabbas]

The state can intervene when one person inflicts physical harm on another. Think of murder, rape, theft, and fraud.

[Cooman456]

Barr co-authored the "Defense of Marriage" act. And as supported ever since.

[Cooman456]

We have to look at the credentials: there are only two candidates who have held a serious position in public office. That's Barr and Gravel. But a senator is MUCH more signficant that a congressman, and a Gravel choice will give much more legitimacy to the Libertarian party. When a person looks back on the people who made the nomination, he will find jobs such as lawyer, author, or candidate unimpressive.

[braddockakalatis]

Also, his initials spell W.A.R.

[braddockakalatis]

Where's Badnarik?

[Cliff2012]

Why is he a dirtbag?

[TajiTJ]

Can we get mics that are not from the 80's. Things like that make the party look very bad. So nobody from the heartland area has a few thousand to put into this event.

[jgrdonquixote]

It's nice finally seeing these people outside of their websites.

[egosumabbas]

And you'll never see this footage on TV either.  It' s a catch 22 really :-/

[TheAusChap]

Ugh. What lackluster candidates apart from Gravel and Root.

Philles was probably the most pathetic, having to stop and read off that piece of paper all the time... maybe I should consider a LP run. Atleast I can speak well!

[HYWT]

That's Jingozian.

[frionelhero]

I love the Libertarian Party, but jeez, if they want to be credible they should look credible. This wouldn't even be shown on CSPAN, and thats bad!

[egosumabbas]

Yeah, a bunch of these candidates are horrible public speakers. At least Gravel and Root have been on TV a lot, though Gravel's mic was turned down really low.

[egosumabbas]

This was in Kansas City, at the Heartland Libertarian Conference, on April 5th. I can't find the breakdown of how the straw poll went exactly, but all the news I've seen says Wayne Allyn Root won.