Church of the Divide Pickets First Baptist Church in Davis

[whoislikeGod7]

The ones causing the division are those that call themselves Christian but do not follow Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke about the righteous judgement of God on Sodom and Gomorrah many times in the Gospels. Is Christ divided, therefore? Or why are there 'churches' (the living Church of God is the body of Christ) that don't follow God's law and Jesus' teachings?

[whoislikeGod7]

The ones causing the division are those that call themselves Christians but do not follow Jesus Christ. How many times did Jesus mention God's righeous judgement of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Gospels'? Is Christ divided, and if not, why is His body (the Church) on the issue of sodomy? But if sodomy is sin, the living Church of God should take a stand against it.

[sacredbeckah]

romans1:27~Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion its not talking of sex, it is talking of the hatred between men.

[brett21]

The Bible also says to seek out those who cause division and AVOID THEM! It's clear that the picketing church was only there to cause trouble. And... don't they have a church that they should be at this sunday morning! Clearly they have their priorities mixed up! Small town idiots...

[brett21]

Get a life! The Pastor shoud have shot him!

[feartherebelyell]

When's the next picket, can i sign up?

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Romans 1:26-27 (New Testament)

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

[fireweed1988]

Rosemont419: Is God being 'loving and welcoming? Jesus began His preaching with 'Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand!' (Matt 4:17) Repent means turn away from and utterly forsake sin in your life. Jesus shed His blood for us; God does NOT 'accept us as we are' (wicked sinners). He welcomes those letting the blood of Christ cleanse them from all unrighteousness (1 Jn 1:9). To abide in God's love, we must obey His commands (Jn 15:10).

[fireweed1988]

Rosemont419: God considers homosexuality 'such a sin.' He created man and woman to be united as one flesh as His natural order. Homosexuals wickedly reject God's order, perverting it by indulging in same-sex unions. God calls homosexuality 'unnatural' (Romans 1:27), 'gross immorality' (Jude 7), an 'abomination' (Lev 18:22). So exceedingly grave was the sin of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 18/19) God completely destroyed them as an example of ungodliness (2 Peter 2:6).

[rosemont419]

I would like to know - and I have read parts of the bible- why you believe homosexuality is such a sin. Isn't God supposed to be loving and welcome all brothers and sisters with open arms?

Isn't, in the kingdom of Heaven, you are supposed to be forgiven for all your sins in the mortal life that you had? Besides I, personally. think that if you lead a happy life you should not be a sinner. Happiness is all under God and if they are happy all should let them be.

[fireweed1988]

Rosemont419: Forgiveness is conditional on the sinner's repentance. You will not enter the Kingdom to be 'forgiven for all your sins." Sinners will not enter the Kingdom at all, only the righteous. (Matt 14: 41-49) No repentance, no entrance. Read more than parts of the Bible; read all of it over and over, for "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." (Ps 119:105)

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Heh, no James, I'm not avoiding it. I just wanted to make sure my question was answered before answering a new question.

I'd still like an answer for the previous statement I made: "You should have a Scriptural basis for your decision to publicly issue statements against our church" for its activities.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

I believe there's some issues with YouTube...those comments were approved last night. The reason we limit the comments is because of people who post things like this: "Luke Otterstad blows goats". As long as they aren't obscene, they get posted.

The comment "No, none of us believe that" was in reference to the allegation that one of us believe we haven't sinned since the '80's.

[gilroy]

lol, "blows goats". Did someone really post that? I understand the reason for "approval" of posts, I never really questioned it. But where were you guys those couple of days? (I am sensing some avoidance of the question.) And also, James?

[gilroy]

It's very hard to follow what questions you're answering if you don't approve my questions. And you still (as far as I can tell anyway) haven't answered the two questions I asked: Where were you guys during those couple days you made no comments and is it true that one of your members believes he hasn't sinned since the eighties?

[gilroy]

I grow weary of this argument, and have better things to do (homework), as I am certain you do as well. It is obvious neither of us will get anywhere towards convincing the other of his argument. Yet, there are two last questions which bother me. 1) Where were you guys the last 3 days? That's why I lost the mood. 2) Is it true one of your leaders believes he has not sinned since the 80s?

[ChurchoftheDivide]

James, I'll gladly answer your question after you respond to this:

You stated that we violated 1 Cor. 6 because, "You are not telling the issue to the church. By picketing you are telling it to the non-Christians..."

If you still believe in your interpretation of that passage of Scripture, then you are condemning yourself and are a total hypocrite by posting your comments on Youtube, where non-Christians will see it instead of "telling it to the church".

[gilroy]

Wow, the difference is that I am not using 1 Cor. 5 or 6 as a justification for what I am doing. Also, my problem is with you, not the church, and this is really the only means of communication with you I have.(That's speedy anyway.) Also, my name is Gilroy. (James?)

[ChurchoftheDivide]

So what is your Scriptural basis for what you are doing? 2 Tim. 3:16 says that "All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable...for EVERY good work." You should have a Scriptural basis for your decision to publicly issue statements against our church. Also, your problem is not with me, it is with our church because we (not just me) picketed FBC.

You could easily have emailed our church, just like we emailed FBC before picketing it.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

No, none of us believe that we haven't sinned since the '80s

[GardenValleyPest]

The church of the divide is made up of idiots.

[scotthutch]

Poor, sad people. So insecure with your choice of religion that you have to tear down others.

[gilroy]

lol, the reason they probably never let any of you on the grounds was probably because you all had video cameras! Try going in without an agenda next time. I read they didn't let the FOX news people on either cuz of the video cameras. That pastor probably just didn't want a scene inside the sanctuary.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Gilroy, if that were true, why didn't the bodyguards tell us "we'd love to have you join us, but we don't allow video cameras". Instead they refused to give a reason for their actions and chose to ban anyone they deemed "unworthy". Would Jesus do that?

[gilroy]

This also makes YOU in the wrong for taking the matter to the public rather than to the church according to I Corinthians 6. Also both passages, Matthew 18:15-17 and I Corinthians 6, are speaking specifically of when a brother has wronged YOU PERSONALLY. I very much doubt that church did anything to your person.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

1 Corinthians 5 talks about a sin involving one calling himself a brother, but living a sexually immoral life. That sin was not a PERSONAL sin against Paul, or the church in Corinth, but rather a sin against God. Yet Paul says, "Remove the evil person from among you." (5:13)

[gilroy]

This may be true, but it is the job of the church the person is in to do so, not yours. If you don't like the way the church is handling it that's too bad, it's not your church. If they don't listen to your complaints then complain to the Baptist Convention. There are channels designed to take care of issues exactly like this in an organized non-invasive manner, use them.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Please explain biblically the concept of "your church" and "my church". I do not read that in the Scriptures anywhere. Her sin is a public sin (which is how we knew about it - it was broadcast in the media), so we tried to deal with her pastor one-on-one to see if he would discipline her, but received no response. At this point we decided, "If you brother won't hear thee, tell it unto the church."

[gilroy]

Actually you did receive a response. I know this because the other day I spoke with someone at that church and it's on your website. One of the leaders in your church spoke with FBC's pastor on the phone.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Keep in mind the timeline: we didn't receive a response until we decided "If your brother won't hear thee, tell it unto the church." At that point, after receiving no response for 6 days, we emailed and called again, stating that we were going to "tell it unto the church" by holding signs in front of FBC. Then finally, your pastor, Glen Snyder, responded.

[gilroy]

Who said he was my pastor? I'm a student at UCD but that doesn't mean I'm a member of that church! I have friends who are and I don't enjoy my friends being attacked in any way.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Yes, James, we know you attend there but aren't officially a member.

[gilroy]

Also, does your ignoring my statement about 1 Corinthians 6 mean you'll stop using the passage for this purpose (as it was not about what you are using it for)? I also like how you didn't "approve" my comment that comes just before this.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

1 Corinthians 6 is irrelevant to this discussion, other than in verse 9-10 it says that "homosexuals...shall not inherit the kingdom of God." I figured that you meant to put 1 Corinthians 5, so I ignored your comment as a typo. Please post a specific verse in chapter 6 so I can address what you are talking about.

Regarding the comment about not approving one of your comments, I have approved all comments that have been posted... perhaps it didn't go through? Please re-post it.

[gilroy]

Ah, I understand and apologize, that explains why you didn't understand. Corinthians 6 says, "If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? ... But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!" You are not telling the issue to the church. By picketing you are telling it to the non-Christians, to the sinners you detest so much. They also seem to be the only ones reacting to this.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

1 Corinthians 6 deals with taking a dispute among brethren before "the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints." He says in verse 5 "I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?" It's pretty clear that he's talking about "judging". We're not taking this before an ungodly court - this verse doesn't apply.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

1 Corinthians 6 does apply in regards to the fact that "First Baptist Church" called in the civil government to carry out its orders to remove us. Why did FBC call in 3 sheriffs deputies to deal with a situation that the pastor could have handled with us? According to 1 Cor. 6, thats a shame to FBC that they can't deal with this on their own.

[gilroy]

Perhaps they felt they couldn't deal with it as described in 1 Cor. 6 because you were not. You demonstration is nothing like that described in the verse. The verse mentions talking, not picketing and making a scene. If the pastor did not take your concern seriously then you should take it to the church, which you have yet to do.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

"Telling it unto the church" and "Exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness" leave much to the Christian as to HOW to do that - picketing is one way to do it. However, 1 Cor. 6 flat out shames any church that would bring in the ungodly to judge something the church should judge. There is no excuse for a church to drag in the "ungodly for judgment".

[gilroy]

Your quote of the verse is incomplete: "Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." The gays are not the only sinners in the world.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

I purposely quoted only the applicable part of the verse. Freddie Oakley's sin does not have anything to do with thieves, or the greedy, or drunkards. Sodomites are clearly not the only sinners in the world, but that sin is what is being brought up by Freddie Oakley, so we will address that sin.

[gilroy]

Also, if you are truly striving to be Christ-like in this matter then you would not be picketing. Isaiah 42:1-3 is a prophecy about what Jesus was going to be like. Though the verse is about Jesus it still applies to Christians, who, by the very definition of the name "Christian," should be "like-Christ." It says, "He will not cry out or raise his voice, nor make his voice heard in the street." You are doing the exact opposite.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Being Christ-like means following Jesus Christ's teaching and methods. Consider how Jesus opened His public ministry: "From that time on, Jesus began to preach and to say, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.'" (Matt 4:17) Preaching, by definition is a public proclamation. We're following in His footsteps.

[gilroy]

So being Christ-like has nothing to do with being like Christ? Jesus never once told the sinners that he hates them, and he welcomed them into his presence (Mary Magdalene and Zacchaeus are two good examples, they also good examples of "burning wicks" (see comment below)). Why are you so condemning of sinners when you are one yourself? (Romans 3:23)

[ChurchoftheDivide]

First, you need to define "hate" and also define "condemn". Then I can adequately address your question.

[gilroy]

"Hate" is fairly difficult to define as it usually a universal knowledge, yet I shall try my best. "Hate" is an abhorrence of something. Even unto not being able to be in that something's presence. "Condemn," in the way that I have used it here, refers to pronouncing a harsh judgment upon someone and claim them incurable.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Thank you,

Regarding "hate" or "abhorrence", we follow the Scripture's teaching in Romans 12:9 "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good." So, we abhor sin, as we are commanded to.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Regarding "condemn", we follow Jesus' example with the woman caught in adultery in John 8, "neither do I condemn thee. Go and sin no more." Condemning is different than telling someone to "sin no more". Our message to Freddie Oakley and to Pastor Glen Snyder is to "sin no more" and uphold the Scriptures.

[gilroy]

The last thing is that in Isaiah 42:3 it says, "A bruised reed he will not break and a dimly burning wick he will not extinguish." This is refering to Jesus reaction to sinners who have an interest in Christianity. Freddie was a dimly burning wick and so is any gay who tries to go to church to learn about God, and you are snuffing them out and denying them access to the only thing that can save them. How very Christ-like of you.

[ChurchoftheDivide]

Freddie is not a "dimly burning wick" as you assert. Jesus Christ said, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matt 7:20-21) Promoting gay marriage is not the will of the Father - we know her by her fruit.

[maccee44]

That lady's been on the news non-stop the last few weeks - I never saw your picket of Oakley's church on TV though... funny how they "overlook" certain things they don't like.