@53dumey I already see the end. Check out what PEW Research Center has to say about the next generation; "One-in-five members of Generation Next say they have no religious affiliation or are atheist or agnostic, nearly double the proportion of young people who said that in the late 1980s."
Christianity is dying out. Also check out the Flat Earth Society which believes this "round earth talk" is a conspiracy. Once people accept valid truths, Christianity will be considered just as irrational.
@53dumey No lol I'm just showing you the real statistics of the slow (but steady) decline of religion in the U.S. But no? I'm not trying to. Next to what Christians believe -- what I said is not funny at all.
Christians in so many cases are so wrapped up in their beliefs they just ignore historical facts and mold them to fit what they want, Hitch is so well researched it is just embarrassing to watch when anyone goes up against him.
Check out my videos "Religion is Ridiculous"...specifically Christianity...good stuff...rate it!!! Christians i CHALLENGE you to watch it and have an open mind...
Hitchens was 100% wrong on all of his assertions and he knew it all along. Like Darwin, Dawkins, LaVey and Crowley he found a gimmick to make a name for himself and a path to a decent living by catering to the gullible fools that are sprinkled throughout the human population. People with common sense knew all along he was a scam but the fools that took him serious still believe his hype to this day. The poor mindless losers are still duped. It's so sad.
@futureboy There's plenty of proof. Just take a look on the internet. Or better yet, ask your parents! Oh...I forgot...you're a know-it-all teenager with the stupidist parents in the world :-(
@AtheistSpanker Right, because calling people man worshippers, trolls, and wastes of time are just the thing to make people take you seriously..Good one.
@AtheistSpanker Jesus was 100% wrong on all of his assertions and he knew it all along. Like Mohammad, Moses, Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard he found a gimmick to make a name for himself and a path to a decent living by catering to the gullible fools that are sprinkled throughout the human population. People with common sense knew all along he was a scam but the fools that took him serious still believe his hype to this day. The poor mindless losers are still duped. It's so sad.
Hitchens is a fool, This Country IS founded on Christian values, morals, & our laws are also. Jefferson was simply referring to the 1st amendment when he spoke of a 'wall between Church & State". Another revisionist history spewing liberal idiot.
Our founding fathers held CHRSITIAN MASSES in our Capitol Building in the first decade of this Countries existance.
Who did the moron think they were speaking of when they said "our creator"?? Budda? Allah? Fucking fool!
@falcondriver100 All your wrath aside, can you explain the difference between America being founded on christian moral values vs. America was founded as a christian nation?
@falcondriver100 There's your problem. The difference is that if America was founded as a christian nation (it wasn't), it would be a theocracy (it isn't), and everyone would be forced to follow the christian religion (they aren't, nor were they ever - not taking into account the indoctrination-by-force of natives).
@futureboy No shit. Thats the entire reason for the first amendment, to avoid a theocracy. Thats what our founders fled from in Europe. However that isn't to say this isn't a Christian nation. 86% of this nations populace claims christianity & our laws, values, morals are all based in the bible. I'd say that makes us a Christian Nation that happens to tolerate any/all other religions & the gov't cannot dictate otherwise.
@falcondriver100 "What do you call us" It would be ignorant to label it in any philosophical way, which is why the founders specifically avoided using religious language in the const. Washington deliberately speaks of a grand architect instead of the god of the bible. The decl of ind refers to nature's law, not the bible's. Adams was unitarian, but he held the opinion that "the Government of the United States of America [was] not in any sense founded on the Christian religion".
@futureboy Wrong again boy. I already told you, they avoided religious language in the Constitution b/c they had fled a theocrasy & didn't want that here. They WERE very religious & like I already told you, they DO mention "our creator" twice in the D.I. & held CHRISTIAN MASS in the Capitol & formed our Gov't & laws based on the bible, "In GOD we trust" is on our currency & in our courtrooms.
Come up with all the bullshit you like, but you can't re-write history.
@falcondriver100 "like I already told you, they DO mention "our creator" twice in the D.I."
When did you say this? Oh, that's right, you didn't. I mentioned the decl of ind, and how it makes no reference to the christian god. That's no bullshit. Read it and try to find anything about a christian god. You won't. The phrase "in god we trust" doesn't specify a christian god, either. And I already addressed the irrelevance of the fact that the FF's held masses.
@futureboy Leaarn how to read moron. "Like I already told you" is in an entirely seperate sentence from "they DO mention our creator twice in the D.I."..........Geezus. And I thought you had some intelligence.
So are you REALLY trying to tell us that they meant Budda or Allah? Really? Are you THAT stupid? They held CHRISTIAN masses in the capitol.........oh but "THAT is irrelevant". LOL! When you prove the FF's were Muslims, Buddhists or a religion other than Christian, Let me know!
@falcondriver100 Did I say anything about what they meant? No, I said they didn't mean a christian god. Why is that so hard for you to understand? But you feel you have to jump to conclusions and assume that since they held christian masses, they must have been talking about the biblical god, even though they don't mention the bible or the christian god in either the DoInd or the CON. If they were talking about the bible, then why didn't they just say so?
You say "this stupid", but you fail to demonstrate in any way how you find me stupid. I, on the other hand, have specifically shown and explained your stupidity through the correction of your remedial writing and the quoting of facts that you seem to stupid to understand the importance of. Now you think that having to explain yourself repeatedly justifies copping out, when really you can't explain anything because of your stupidity.
@falcondriver100 You keep asserting that they intended America to be a christian nation, and the only support you give for this is the fact that "they held CHRISTIAN masses in the capitol". You ignore all the evidence that proves their choice of religion had nothing to do with what they wanted for America. They wrote NOTHING about christianity or the bible. Furthermore, Article 6 of the CON shows that there is no connection between religion and what they intended America to be.
@futureboy You really have no idea what you're talking about do you :-( America was founded as a Christian nation, but was a nation which accepted all beliefs. And why would that force everyone to follow the Christian view? Please, I know you are a teenager who knows it all, but just stick to your world of warcrap instead :-(
@BlongBlarble "America was founded as a Christian nation" You've very wrong. The declaration of independence makes that quite clear. Have you actually read it?
@futureboy And also, native americans had their own beliefs and in an afterlife. Christianity was just our perception of what it's like. So please don't try to say that Native americans were spiritualess people. There are plenty of books written by native americans about native american spiritual history. And don't be dumb by assuming I'm talking about Jesus when it comes to native americans.
@BlongBlarble Wow, it looks like you have trouble reading and understanding words. Did I say native americans were without spirituality? Go back, read it again, think about it, THEN post. That way usually works better. Also, why would I assume you're talking about Jesus when it comes to native americans? You must be really confused about how to communicate effectively...
This is what 40 years of social engineering in Liberal, Democrat run, public brainwashing institutions does for us. Took God out of school & replaced him with metal detectors & school resource Officers. Nice job Democrats! Bravo bravo!
'see that field of carrots there was nonymously planted and so logically you can't then believe your own two eyes!'
but the bunny said "funny, cuz i have a hundred more of them inside!" ;)
Believe in the Word of God people. It's the truth. Blow this 'atheist' dump, and God will bless you for it!!! :) He made carrots!!!! :D but of course! LOTS OF CARROTS!!!! :D :D :D IT'S TRUE! He's talking to you... I know it.
• nothing should go to waste so these worthless fuqs historically recycle 'their' "concentrated" Jews and Christians into novel lampshades to serve humanity! So sad AND very VERRRY TRUE.
Wake the fuq up. Atheists literally suck ass like it's going out of style.
About Flew, you really need to check again. You'll find many sources that say Flew was never a christian, but a deist. Google "atheist-turned-deist dies", and the first result is from christianpost, stating he was a deist.
Also, repeating your Logical Positivism and Gödel's Theorems arguments does nothing to address the fatal flaw in them which I already pointed out - the fact that they do nothing to prove your religion over others. Would you care to address that?
@futureboy and I know you're a liar, futureboy. A desperate one. Flew wrote the words I read, the ones you never hope to or will. Even as a deist, he's defeated your purpose, i.e. to say there is no god—when Flew's book is titled "THERE IS A GOD! How the World's Most Famous Atheist Changed His Mind" :) Of course you wouldn't want to come to terms with the import of Flew's or Goedel's work *I* told you about. You're the 1 who needs to address it, forgetting your constant denialism. Fight *that*.
And I also read the words he wrote, which I quoted, remember?? I specifically quoted him saying that your god was an "omnipotent Oriental [despot]" and a "cosmic Saddam [Hussein]"
"he's defeated your purpose"
No, he defeated yours. I never had a purpose for him, which is why I didn't bring him up. I merely pointed out how your name-dropping of him failed because he was never a christian as you mistakenly said.
@futureboy I know why you can't hear the truth. Because God made you dumb. You can't help it. You're just an animal,eh? tsk poor thing, you believe your own lies. That makes you not pretty damned & stupid like you could impress Someone. You've come undone: Flew *believed* in God hence *his* book: THERE IS A GOD! How foolish are you? Quite & very. God AND Flew *constantly* make a liar of you. Yet, honestly I hope you please yourself best in hurry finding your highway to hell & get there 'safely'.
If you tried actually speaking rationally, it might help, otherwise, you just seem like an enraged christian who doesn't know how to cope with the fact that your arguments are unfounded. I already accepted Flew's belief in god - I have no problem with that, but you still seem to be ignorant of what he thought about the christian god. I don't have to lie about it, nor did I.
I won't admit that I lied because I did no such thing. I explained why and how I made those two errors, and apologized for them, something that you seem unable to accept, as it's probably easier for you to just spout anger and flames at me instead of rationally respond to my posts.
@futureboy You're a liar. Why would you think I'd lie about David Aikman being a former MILITANT atheist? You have no answer because you're a bullshitting liar. That's the ony reason why you'd choose to doubt it without any legitimate reason why. You lie...Stop. Please. You're found out. I'm not angry. It's typical atheist 'integrity' at its best...nothing new in you. You're just another atheist liar liar. *shrug* I'm only here to make sure others know better than you care to. Thanks.
Because, as I already explained, in all the info on him I found, there is nothing mentioned about his conversion. Do you actually read posts in their entirety?
"I'm only here to make sure others know better than you care to."
Oh, really? Then why did you keep asserting that Flew was a christian, and kept ignoring the fact that he was a deist, and my point about the fact that he had nothing good to say about the christian god?
@futureboy God help you. The plain assertion you keep trying to misconstrue is that FORMER atheist ANTONY FLEW BELIEVED IN GOD and wrote THERE IS A GOD! so literal dumbasses like you would know it. And this "nothing about Christian God" you say? AGAIN it's real simple, Stupid. He wrote that CHRISTIANITY of ALL religions, disavowing your fuqtup atheism, was MOST ATTRACTIVE TO HIM. & you keep lying about Aiken too! the MILITANT Atheist disbelieving when you had NO reason to but 4ur damn stupidity.
Like I said before, he was quoted as not believing in the christian god, no matter what you can quote him saying about how he felt about Wright's presentation of christianity. You can ignore it all you like, but he was not a christian - he was a deist. That only adds to the problem behind your mentioning the positivism and theorems; they do nothing to prove the existence of the christian god.
Also, I don't keep lying about Aiken - I explained that. Try reading posts sometimes.
@futureboy hello liar..remember you're the one who *keeps* MISquoting FORMER atheists w/your 'misunderstandings' hello??? you there? Knock on wood? Yes, that's David AIKMAN, not Aiken, also FORMER ATHEIST and who is a Christian I believe because if you google it
"David Aikman - Home Page...Cached...
His topic will be "On Their Turf: How to Refute the Atheists." Aikman is available that weekend to speak to groups and churches in and around the Philadelphia."
Please explain how I have misquoted anyone, because as far as I can tell you're the one who's misquoting. You're the one who takes Flew's praise of Wright's presentation of christianity to mean he was christian. That is a gross falsification - especially after I quoted for you what Flew said about the christian god, and provided a reference that said he died a deist - not a christian - from a christian news source, no less.
Humanity has created thousands of gods throughout the centuries. Why should the Biblical God be seen as any different than Thor, Odin, Apollo and Zeus? Hopefully, Christianity will be referred to as "hebrew mythology" in the future. We don't NEED this shit, and it divides and destroys humanity. Fuck religion.
Most atheist claim that goodness mercy love and many fruits of His own Spirit are desireable.So why is it any risk believing? If you believe, and you are right, you've won everything! If you believe and your wrong, you've lost nothing. But it's more basic and proper to believer "There IS a God!" as former-atheist Antony Flew testified believing, than to assume the astounding complexity of DNA could arrive merely haphazardly. Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project, the Language of God.
@sexyeur errr...that is Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project which decoded our DNA, calls his book about it "The Language of God," NOT "The Occasional 'Random' House of Cards"... ;) hehe We have scientifically "unexplainable" DNA so far by secular perversion alone. DNA to say the least is fairly complex and found in every cell in our body. Funny how genuinely apropos Dr. Collin's title is then. Glory! Amen!
@RationalConclusion and it does not make it any less true either. You'll always have that choice: faith or doubt...it's about what you're willing to believe of Him! It's your perfect adventure! Behold I set before you life and death God says, Choose ye this day whom you will serve..but I say most do this without thinking in everyday mindless living, if they're not considering Him at all :( He''s not a hateful God. He loves all His creatures especially the ones who can't always understand Him. :)
@sexyeur and there you have the crux of the matter, taking faith is based on reason if you believe what you want and hopeful is attainable and "reasonable" to us. God can do anything. it's up to us to believe it. Faith can "activate" miraculous powers and yet God says that faith without love is nothing. He says we could mountains and without love nothing really matters! That's how WE are too!!! Amazing at the end of it...Consider and praise Him!!!
I don't think that anyone knows whether a god exists. One may believe that a god exsist. One may even believe that they know whether god exists. But that's different from actually knowing that a god exists.
@RationalConclusion You take a deeper critical look with respect to doubt than to faith. "O ye of little faith...how long shall I endure you." Yeshua said. You need faith to interface with the infinite. You must trust like a child jumping into his Father's arms for the first time. Love never fails, Scriptures assure. God is love to those who love Him. Wager love if you can't faith. Hope is another thing that lasts. Scripture calls hope the anchor of the soul, bcuz His gives us our hearts desire
Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem PROVED the utter fallibility of all logic. Scientists hated him but "it's not a matter of liking it or disliking it, you see there is proof.." & that's all there is to it. There were no flaws in his work. Perfect. Basically he proved there would always be things true that can never be PROVED to be true. This devastated his contemporaries. So much for all this scientism so prevalent today and we still have death & all manner of disease celebrating "grand" evolution
While you may seem to know what you're talking about, you are completely wrong about the theorems and their philosophical implications. Gödel's Theorems (there are 2) deal with formal systems, not religion. Furthermore, however successfully you may put forth such arguments, they provide no reason whatsoever to believe in the god of the bible over anything else it is possible to believe in without evidence. It's really just an exercise of the Liar Paradox in formal systems.
@RationalConclusion Why do you believe in the fallacy of logical positivism? It's been dead for many years. When the world was starving for the security of certainty in maths and sciences, they saw their foundations crumbling beneath them in Cantor, Boltzman, Goedel, and Turring; and your scientific establishment couldn't discredit and so shamefully mocked and abhorrently trivialized greater thinking men. Tragedy is still we have yet to come to terms with the uncertain implications of their work
@sexyeur The fallacy of logical positivism? I've not heard of that before.
I base my beliefs on evidence. Evidence which is reliable and trustworthy. I don't find the claims within the bible anywhere near to being relieble or trustworthy and I don't see how anyone else can.
and I'm glad you can't cuz it's clear you would pretend to think for the rest of us who do know better as everything you said is logical positivism, and I tell you the truth, it's long dead. You need to regroup and reevaluate. You can read about the death of logical positivism in Antony Flew's book because he's the one who originally championed it. He himself disavowed it. He said Chrisitianity held the most gravity 4him.
Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Logical positivism is not a fallacy.
Also, any connection between the flaws of logical positivism and philosophical debate has nothing to do with theistic claims, nor does it give credit for your theistic claim over others.
"When the world was starving" "they saw their foundations crumbling beneath them"
More spiritual BS. Name-drop all you want; it won't convince anyone you know what you're talking about.
@futureboy Your just stupid deceiver. READ Antony Flew's book THERE IS A GOD: HOW THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS ATHEIST CHANGED HIS MIND, and you'll know. The death of logical positivism was disavowed by its greatest champion. He hated it because scumbags like you keep insisting on it. tsk tsk tsk Serious atheist don't go there, Stupid. The work of Cantor, Goedel etc. they are PROOFS of the real limits of science. The Incompleteness Theorem is a logical scientific proof, Stupid, not a spiritual one.
Blackwell just brings his one line about the US being built on christian morals over and over and then laughs at Hichtens' historical facts. What a smug asshole. A true christian.
The End of Christian America? heh. What a tool, just like the rest of you God-haters...petulance is your greatest hallmark. Not truth. Denialism *is* your religion, you damn fools REPENT!
@RationalConclusion Let me guess Denialism is the best "rational" Delusion? I advise you read the work of former *militant* atheist, former Times correspondent David Aikman's "The Delusion of Denialism: Why the New Atheism is a Threat to Your Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness". Peter Veith is yet another of my favorite former atheists! ;) I also love how the world's most famous atheist Antony Flew change his mind with "There IS A God!". Hitchens too. Many atheists made BETTER Christians!! :)
@RationalConclusion Prophecy. AND for the reasons I've already cited..but you wouldn't look because you've tragically underestimated them all. Scriptures could be true in your case to say that even should the dead rise, those too eagerly neglecting the prophets should never believe, even with their own eyes, because seeing they see not and hearing they hear not. It's a mystery only God can reveal. Only Believers marvel at the awesomeness of God! But without faith it is impossible to please God,
@RationalConclusion "faith is simply believing something for no good reason"
use a little imagination just for the sake of "quantum" possibilities :) what if you'd allow that faith could be believing for a very good reason. I've given you several sources, but I'm not going to spoon feed you. You should desire the Truth for the it's own sake, and not what you presume it should already mean to you when you haven't known Him yet. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Just believe.
@RationalConclusion No you can come to God using Reason, in fact God invites us to reason with Him. He's not irrational. He made your sanity too. ;) But it's not the *best* way. Faith rather is more Scripturally defined "the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen." Why shoot a basketball if you don't have some faith it could go in, & more often with practice, given 'faith'. Faith is not weak as some suppose. It's one of only 3 things that last. Faith is a gift from God.
Hilarious! You can't even name-drop properly! The book is called "The Delusion of Disbelief", and has been roundly rejected as being filled with falsifications and conveniently ignored or omitted historical facts. Also, David Aikman was never an atheist! Furthermore, even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that Aikman's tirades are even slightly true and atheism is an evil force, it still fails to give even one shred of evidence to support your religion! Epic fail!
you're not an atheist, you're just a petty liar—even worse. Google Books tells the truth fortunately & so does Aikman himself in his book, which I actually read: "He holds two doctorates from Oxford, the first of which he earned in 1966. ... a militant atheist. In 1996 ... A New Yorker profile called him “Britain's village atheist ..."
futureboy it'd be better a millstone were tied to your neck and you were thrown into the sea. Amen.
I admit that my knowledge of Aikman was incorrect, as there is quite little of his conversion mentioned anywhere. For that I apologize. My intention wasn't to lie. Now, can you address and explain the reasons for your inaccuracies (lies)?
@futureboy You should admit that you're a liar, instead, when you had no legitimate reason to disbelieve, but for your petulant suck-ass denialism. You intend rather to mislead others, and I will make you eat your own shit, pig. Wallow in the mud some more, eh? LIAR.
Flew never converted to christianity. Here's what he says about his belief: "I'm thinking of a god very different from the god of the christian and far and away from the god of islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins."
Your lie about Hitchens is also absurd.
The fact that you have to resort to lying sinfully about famous people converting to christianity proves even you yourself realize that you have no valid points to make.
@futureboy Another book I actually read, Flew writes in "There IS a God! How the World's Most Famous Atheist CHANGED HIS MIND" that he is most impressed with N.T. Wright's presentation and that if ANY religion holds any profound attraction to him, it is undoubtedly Christianity. Enough said. As well, Hitchens brother has disavowed atheism as a serious danger, and has converted to Christianity. Google it. Chronic Denialism tends to make desperate liars, like you, a most VALID POINT I also make.
Check again, champ, Flew died a deist, and never openly accepted the christian faith. I can understand your wishful thinking made you to jump to conclusions and mistakenyl assume that his praise of Wright's presentation meant he was a christian. Just as I mistakenly assumed that when you said "Hitchens too [changed his mind]" that you meant Christopher Hitchens, when you were really talking about his much-less-known brother Peter. I'm sorry for such a simple misunderstanding.
However, if you think that these misunderstandings have in some way proven you right, you're way off. You've yet to address any of the counters to your rantings I've posted.
"a most VALID POINT I also make"
I'm wondering about the word "also" in there, because it implies you've made other valid points. Could you paraphrase those, perhaps? Because I'm fairly certain that none of the posts you've made in reply to mine have contained anything of validity.
@futureboy 'misunderstandings' *your* LYING ass...There are many more former atheists. My point is that they believe in God. Hitchens, Flew, Veith, Lewis, Aikens, etcetera :) ALL FORMER atheists who disavowed the crap you now spew in much much GREATER detail and eloquence. You tune it out cuz it's not what you are. You're more of a liar than they care to be. Word—and sadly that's probably the most valid point you allow me to make. *shrug* But ALL are equally valid. I don't lie like you do.
@sexyeur I don't know if you're trying to get a rise out of me, repeatedly calling me a liar after I explained why it happened (once because I hadn't enough info, the 2nd time because you called Peter Hitchens "Hitchens" - really dumb on your part, btw). You fail to get me to react angrily, and only continue to seem more belligerently angry yourself - a very unchristian characteristic, not being able to control your wrath. One day you'll look back and be ashamed of yourself.
1. Founding American documents are secular at heart, and though they do not exclude religion from American society, the constitution omits the mention of God.
2. The founding fathers were atheists (though the first word he describes is deists), including Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and others.
3. At 8:05 in the video, he mentions an article which proves declining faith in the American public.
4. The US's enemy is the most devoutly religious adversary yet.
Have no idea what the heck Blackwell did in trying to refute the fact of Benji and Washington being Atheists or atleast non christian. He took a weird turn in denying that.
one goes into specifics to make his point, the other asserts vague relations and repeats them if counterargued. Can you spot the one that knows what he's talking about?
4.40 Is a typical response from a religious person. Start smugly laughing as if they have an answer for your rebuke but then refuses to really explain why they dismiss your point.
Oh behalf of the great state of Ohio, I apologize that you have to endure the moronic Ken Blackwell. He's from Cincinnati, the same place that tried to get laws passed in the state congress to require people to baptize their pets........seriously.
And Ken Blackwell is just laughing because he's being mowed down. Oh man, what an idiot <3 Religion and idiotic behavior unfortunately flows in the same direction...
@highoctave1 you don't have "a belief without evidence" to be an Atheist? Makes no sense, try again. Think about this clearly before replying. Atheist's are non believers in any god's existence. We require evidence in order to believe something to be factual. Theists are believers in a god with faith (no evidence) who don't require any evidence to believe what they believe. Now which one seems more rational to you?
@highoctave1 faith is not required for unbelief. However, with statements like yours above, you have certainly demonstrated that you don't have the capacity for critical thinking that many atheists enjoy.
@MisterDataJack my comment was a tongue in cheek remark; I said that to say this there's so much evidence of " intelligent design" that to be an atheist you have to insist with " faith" but what is faith? the conviction of what you don't see and the hope of what you expect. just look around you and think critically even the colors on animales and vegetation match nicely!!!
@highoctave1 "there's so much evidence of intelligent design"
Unfortunately, you're wrong. ID is merely one interpretation (of many) of the observed facts that posits there is or was something outside our current understanding that acted as designer. ID is not evidence of god and, as such, not something that goes against atheism. MisterDataJack was right when he said you don't have the capacity for critical thinking. Also, could you explain more about the colors "on animales" part?
@futureboy besides ID and evolution what other options are there? alliens? about the "colors" issue; what I meant to say was that the biggest problem a painter faces is how to work with colors that match in order to make reality what he envisioned, however, in nature we see the harmony of colors that had to come from a "critical thinking mind" or ID if you will. Just a simple observation about art in nature. Atheism is not an intellectual issue is a spiritual issue, atheism is worship of self
@highoctave1 The other options are irrelevant, as the point was that belief in ID does not require atheism, or theism, for that matter. You specifically gave ID as an example of atheists requiring faith to not believe in something that had "so much evidence". You were wrong. Also, your supposedly simple observation carries a gross assumption about the truth of ID, which hasn't been conclusively proven nor accepted as true.
@futureboy Like I said this is not an intellectual issue but rather a spiritual one; for instance Isaiah 40:22 : the earth is a sphere, Jeremiah33:22: innumerable stars and Job 26:7:free float of earth in space; all this and more was written before the word atheism was ever coined. But everyone worships! and atheism worships the "self-made -man" face it, we had our day in the sun and we botched it. In reality nobody is born an atheist since evryone is born with a sense of the divine ........
Ignoring intellectual points and citing scripture does not make an issue spiritual instead of intellectual, it just makes you ignorant of the principles of intellectual debate.
"all this and more was written before the word atheism"
This means nothing but the "fact" (you haven't supported it) that some words existed before others.
"everyone worships" "nobody is born an atheist"
More assumptions. It appears that for you "spiritual" means BS.
@futureboy ... An awareness of God which is another way of saying that the law of God is written in the hearts of men. There's a well known phrase " Do what thou wilt" which is really what's behind atheism; it simply means I won't submit to God so to escape that idea I will deny He exists But let me ask you a critical thinking question: why do you argue, debate and fight something or someone you don't believe in?
@highoctave1 "the law of God is written in the hearts of men"
More conjecture (spiritual BS).
"what's behind atheism" "deny He exists"
Young don't know what atheism is. I don't need to deny anything.
"a critical thinking question"
You don't know what critical thinking is, either. In any case, it doesn't matter why - I could just as well be a christian providing a "devil's advocate" argument. Until you can successfully counter the points made, asking why they are made is irrelevant.
@futureboy why do you fight what you don't believe in? maybe you don't want to talk about it but I know this: you and hitchens along with lenin, stalin etc. one day will bow down and your forked tongs will confess that JesusCrist is Lord wanting or not. Just to give you a hint of what having to submit to His Will is check this out: what year is this Mr. Critical thinking? ...time's up is 2012 AD! time is counted only after His Birth! and you have to write down 2012 and take it and live with it
I already explained that this was irrelevant. Please don't let that stop you from thinking about the points I made.
I don't mind talking about it. It's really simple - you believe all non-believers are going to hell; I don't. No big deal. What's worth discussing is the absurdity of why you believe it. 2012? Wow, since when do you believe that? Because it'll be really sad when '12 is over, and you'll have to find the next ultimatum.
@futureboy next ultimatum? I never said or thought that the end of the antichrist world is in 2012. Time only mattered to people after He was born; and my point was that it must be irritating having to yield in some form or way year after year to the very concept and/or Deity you so despise.
@highoctave1 What makes you think I despise the Jesus concept? Also, you really need to study up on your history. If you think that nobody cared about time before Jesus, you're dumber than you've made yourself seem until now. First of all, nobody's sure about the fact that 1 AD is the year JC was born, because the BC/AD calendar wasn't in widespread use until 800-900. It seems his supposed birth didn't matter to anyone for hundreds of years.
@futureboy nobody serves 2 lords either you are for Jesus or God or against him, either you adore him or despise him there's no middle ground. Again; the point is that no matter what happend until 800-900. time is counted as of today since the day of his birth. Now do you have prove of that data or you just have "faith" in it? Clearly for the other hundreds of years people did care until now
@highoctave1 "serves 2 lords" Serve 2 lords? Are you even listening to yourself?? Who made you the decider of who serves, despises or adores who? Do you really believe that it's just a simple question of adoring or despising? Are you so naive that you think the rest of the world is as simple-minded as you are?
"time is counted as of today since the day of his birth" This is just too funny for words! You really don't know what you're talking about.
@futureboy I don't decide who serves who, that wasn't even close. That is just the way God looks at it. is either light or darkness for God or against God. is not a narrow minded approach God simply calls for a desicion are you with me or not. I see you are getting in touch with your anger, hey If you don't believe you don't have to! Like I said this is not an intellectual issue this is an spiritual issue
@highoctave1 Unfortunately you're wrong. You feel it's a choice between christian god or no christian god, when you ignore all the other possibilities - which IS narrow-minded. Why should one choose to believe in your god over others, when there's just as much of the spiritual BS to support those?
And what anger? I was simply expressing incredulity.
"If you don't believe you don't have to" And the same applies to you, as you haven't produced one shred of support for your belief.
@33bynum proberly because he understands that in the end jesus will return, and people like that rude white guy will be sent to hell where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, and the black dude will be in heaven.
@999Thip It amazes me people believe in religion when I could argue that Harry Potter is as real as it. Also imaging in a man right now started saying he was the son of god and he was talking to god so we need to worship him as jesus. That man would be regarded as literally an insane person. People like you who were most likely born into a religious family are brainwashed into believing this garbage because in the end you will know the truth; religion is made up to keep people in line.
Good old Christian revisionism.. didn't you know everyone is truly Christian at heart? Going back the whole 6000 years the Earth has existed? Then.. you aren't brainwashed by your bible, report to your local reprogramming center immediately so your pastor can fix that.
Man that smile is the most irritating thing in the world... covering up his ignorance and the fact that he knows he was destroyed by Hitch in a few well structured phrases.
I just couldn't help but lash out when Blackwell began his condescending laugh. I doubt that many people could really take such a irritating and foolish laugh like that.
rip man
askdjflasf 16 hours ago
What is Blackwell laughing at? Is this a comedy show?
Crust218 16 hours ago
@Crust218 He thinks it's Hitchens that looks like a fool, not him, so he laughs in a douchebaggy manner I guess
555kl789 10 hours ago
>Christian America
Our founding fathers weren't Christian
TheMostOffensiveName 1 day ago
R.I.P. Hitchens!
beccac21 5 days ago
when it comes to religion hitchens is a Nihilist communist "Nothing for everyone"
TheRandomguy112 5 days ago
Hitchens is being a smug bastard here.
Atheism and Agnostics combined make up less than 3% of the population.
Christians make up over 75% .
Therefore I see No "End to Christianity " !
53dumey 6 days ago
@53dumey I already see the end. Check out what PEW Research Center has to say about the next generation; "One-in-five members of Generation Next say they have no religious affiliation or are atheist or agnostic, nearly double the proportion of young people who said that in the late 1980s."
Christianity is dying out. Also check out the Flat Earth Society which believes this "round earth talk" is a conspiracy. Once people accept valid truths, Christianity will be considered just as irrational.
inconsp1cuous1515 5 days ago
@inconsp1cuous1515
So, they are predicting the Furture now ????
Don't make me laugh !!!!!
53dumey 4 days ago
@53dumey No lol I'm just showing you the real statistics of the slow (but steady) decline of religion in the U.S. But no? I'm not trying to. Next to what Christians believe -- what I said is not funny at all.
inconsp1cuous1515 4 days ago
@53dumey - You're not looking at the future nor acknowledging the increase in those views.
Critic863 5 days ago
@Critic863
The Future ??
75% of the US are Christian, the Highest its ever been !
53dumey 4 days ago
@53dumey - You do realize that is only because the US population is probably the greatest it has ever been, right?
Critic863 4 days ago
@53dumey No it is lower than it have been for a long time.
gumme1234 3 days ago
@53dumey you say that as if its a good thing.. you're implying 75% of the US are deluded morons who have no idea how the earth works
LoluskPoo 3 days ago
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KhangTaq 1 day ago
Blackwell really needs to be educated!!! What a real smug simpleton!!! Really irksome listening to/watching him and his arrogant grinning!!!
fluggy20033 6 days ago
Christians in so many cases are so wrapped up in their beliefs they just ignore historical facts and mold them to fit what they want, Hitch is so well researched it is just embarrassing to watch when anyone goes up against him.
NicolaMacLeod 6 days ago
hitchens is the only guy who should ever be invited to a show called "hardball". ^^
Here0s0Johnny 1 week ago
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Check out my videos "Religion is Ridiculous"...specifically Christianity...good stuff...rate it!!! Christians i CHALLENGE you to watch it and have an open mind...
gasmask4poop 1 week ago
he was trying to downplay the fact that atheism is expanding, hitch was having none of it
CyclonexxxIce 1 week ago
Hitchens pwns that guy
poopsicle421 1 week ago
Deeply religious people don't seem to understand that people people CAN be moral and good without the need for an imaginary friend in the sky.
DngerousRadical 1 week ago 2
Atheist = Man Worshipper xD xD xD
BlongBlarble 1 week ago
@BlongBlarble It's actually sad that you find this so funny, because that clearly demonstrates your stupidity.
futureboy 1 week ago
@BlongBlarble: You're an idiot.
chinopisces 1 week ago
Hitchens was 100% wrong on all of his assertions and he knew it all along. Like Darwin, Dawkins, LaVey and Crowley he found a gimmick to make a name for himself and a path to a decent living by catering to the gullible fools that are sprinkled throughout the human population. People with common sense knew all along he was a scam but the fools that took him serious still believe his hype to this day. The poor mindless losers are still duped. It's so sad.
AtheistSpanker 1 week ago
@AtheistSpanker Boy, you sure spanked the atheists! But, can you provide any support to back your assertions?
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy There's plenty of proof. Just take a look on the internet. Or better yet, ask your parents! Oh...I forgot...you're a know-it-all teenager with the stupidist parents in the world :-(
BlongBlarble 1 week ago
@BlongBlarble It's funny that you call my parents stupid, when you can't even seem to spell correctly.
futureboy 1 week ago
@AtheistSpanker I agree. He had the same cheap arguements everytime which appealed only to the younger crowd.
BlongBlarble 1 week ago
@BlongBlarble Of course they're the same, why should they change? You morons haven't even been able to understand them let alone rebuke them.
futureboy 1 week ago
@BlongBlarble You're exactly right. Futureboy is a man worshipper and a troll. Ignore him. He's a waste of your time.
AtheistSpanker 1 week ago
@AtheistSpanker Right, because calling people man worshippers, trolls, and wastes of time are just the thing to make people take you seriously..Good one.
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy You are a man worshipper, a troll and a waste of time. It's up to you as to whether or not you wish to take the truth seriously. G'day
AtheistSpanker 1 week ago
@AtheistSpanker Repeating it totally makes is even more true and powerful!
futureboy 1 week ago
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@AtheistSpanker Jesus was 100% wrong on all of his assertions and he knew it all along. Like Mohammad, Moses, Joseph Smith and L. Ron Hubbard he found a gimmick to make a name for himself and a path to a decent living by catering to the gullible fools that are sprinkled throughout the human population. People with common sense knew all along he was a scam but the fools that took him serious still believe his hype to this day. The poor mindless losers are still duped. It's so sad.
Purojannu 1 week ago
Hitchens is a fool, This Country IS founded on Christian values, morals, & our laws are also. Jefferson was simply referring to the 1st amendment when he spoke of a 'wall between Church & State". Another revisionist history spewing liberal idiot.
Our founding fathers held CHRSITIAN MASSES in our Capitol Building in the first decade of this Countries existance.
Who did the moron think they were speaking of when they said "our creator"?? Budda? Allah? Fucking fool!
falcondriver100 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 All your wrath aside, can you explain the difference between America being founded on christian moral values vs. America was founded as a christian nation?
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy Is there a difference? I didn't think so.
falcondriver100 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 There's your problem. The difference is that if America was founded as a christian nation (it wasn't), it would be a theocracy (it isn't), and everyone would be forced to follow the christian religion (they aren't, nor were they ever - not taking into account the indoctrination-by-force of natives).
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy No shit. Thats the entire reason for the first amendment, to avoid a theocracy. Thats what our founders fled from in Europe. However that isn't to say this isn't a Christian nation. 86% of this nations populace claims christianity & our laws, values, morals are all based in the bible. I'd say that makes us a Christian Nation that happens to tolerate any/all other religions & the gov't cannot dictate otherwise.
What do you call us, Muslim? Buddist? Athiest???
falcondriver100 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 "What do you call us" It would be ignorant to label it in any philosophical way, which is why the founders specifically avoided using religious language in the const. Washington deliberately speaks of a grand architect instead of the god of the bible. The decl of ind refers to nature's law, not the bible's. Adams was unitarian, but he held the opinion that "the Government of the United States of America [was] not in any sense founded on the Christian religion".
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy Wrong again boy. I already told you, they avoided religious language in the Constitution b/c they had fled a theocrasy & didn't want that here. They WERE very religious & like I already told you, they DO mention "our creator" twice in the D.I. & held CHRISTIAN MASS in the Capitol & formed our Gov't & laws based on the bible, "In GOD we trust" is on our currency & in our courtrooms.
Come up with all the bullshit you like, but you can't re-write history.
falcondriver100 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 "like I already told you, they DO mention "our creator" twice in the D.I."
When did you say this? Oh, that's right, you didn't. I mentioned the decl of ind, and how it makes no reference to the christian god. That's no bullshit. Read it and try to find anything about a christian god. You won't. The phrase "in god we trust" doesn't specify a christian god, either. And I already addressed the irrelevance of the fact that the FF's held masses.
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy Leaarn how to read moron. "Like I already told you" is in an entirely seperate sentence from "they DO mention our creator twice in the D.I."..........Geezus. And I thought you had some intelligence.
So are you REALLY trying to tell us that they meant Budda or Allah? Really? Are you THAT stupid? They held CHRISTIAN masses in the capitol.........oh but "THAT is irrelevant". LOL! When you prove the FF's were Muslims, Buddhists or a religion other than Christian, Let me know!
falcondriver100 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 You're unbelievably stupid. Here's what you wrote:
"They WERE very religious & like I already told you, they DO mention "our creator" twice in the D.I."
You make 2 assertions, join them with "&", and start the 2nd one with "like I already told you."
1st assertion: "They WERE very religious"
Then you write: "& like I already told you,"
2nd assertion: "they DO mention..."
Maybe you meant: "They were religious, as I already told you, and they do mention..."
futureboy 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 Did I say anything about what they meant? No, I said they didn't mean a christian god. Why is that so hard for you to understand? But you feel you have to jump to conclusions and assume that since they held christian masses, they must have been talking about the biblical god, even though they don't mention the bible or the christian god in either the DoInd or the CON. If they were talking about the bible, then why didn't they just say so?
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy ROFLMAO! Are you really this stupid, or are you just hard up for someone to talk to? I'm not explaining it a third time.
Goodbye! Wasted time..........
falcondriver100 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 "Are you really this stupid"
You say "this stupid", but you fail to demonstrate in any way how you find me stupid. I, on the other hand, have specifically shown and explained your stupidity through the correction of your remedial writing and the quoting of facts that you seem to stupid to understand the importance of. Now you think that having to explain yourself repeatedly justifies copping out, when really you can't explain anything because of your stupidity.
futureboy 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 You keep asserting that they intended America to be a christian nation, and the only support you give for this is the fact that "they held CHRISTIAN masses in the capitol". You ignore all the evidence that proves their choice of religion had nothing to do with what they wanted for America. They wrote NOTHING about christianity or the bible. Furthermore, Article 6 of the CON shows that there is no connection between religion and what they intended America to be.
futureboy 1 week ago
@falcondriver100 Furthermore, the religious associations - or lack thereof - of the FF's has no bearing on what they intended America to be.
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy You really have no idea what you're talking about do you :-( America was founded as a Christian nation, but was a nation which accepted all beliefs. And why would that force everyone to follow the Christian view? Please, I know you are a teenager who knows it all, but just stick to your world of warcrap instead :-(
BlongBlarble 1 week ago
@BlongBlarble "America was founded as a Christian nation" You've very wrong. The declaration of independence makes that quite clear. Have you actually read it?
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy And also, native americans had their own beliefs and in an afterlife. Christianity was just our perception of what it's like. So please don't try to say that Native americans were spiritualess people. There are plenty of books written by native americans about native american spiritual history. And don't be dumb by assuming I'm talking about Jesus when it comes to native americans.
BlongBlarble 1 week ago
@BlongBlarble Wow, it looks like you have trouble reading and understanding words. Did I say native americans were without spirituality? Go back, read it again, think about it, THEN post. That way usually works better. Also, why would I assume you're talking about Jesus when it comes to native americans? You must be really confused about how to communicate effectively...
futureboy 1 week ago
This is what 40 years of social engineering in Liberal, Democrat run, public brainwashing institutions does for us. Took God out of school & replaced him with metal detectors & school resource Officers. Nice job Democrats! Bravo bravo!
falcondriver100 1 week ago
Ken Blackwell is an idiot! It's sad that a BRITISH MAN has to TEACH AN AMERICAN HIS OWN HISTORY! smh
TexadaArmsted 1 week ago
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so a few little pig tell all the bunny
'see that field of carrots there was nonymously planted and so logically you can't then believe your own two eyes!'
but the bunny said "funny, cuz i have a hundred more of them inside!" ;)
Believe in the Word of God people. It's the truth. Blow this 'atheist' dump, and God will bless you for it!!! :) He made carrots!!!! :D but of course! LOTS OF CARROTS!!!! :D :D :D IT'S TRUE! He's talking to you... I know it.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Atheists think:
• the Bible doesn't exist
• His Church is a building
• things fall because of science
• they evolved from slime to compete with monkeys
• they created mankind to serve them
• nothing should go to waste so these worthless fuqs historically recycle 'their' "concentrated" Jews and Christians into novel lampshades to serve humanity! So sad AND very VERRRY TRUE.
Wake the fuq up. Atheists literally suck ass like it's going out of style.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
About Flew, you really need to check again. You'll find many sources that say Flew was never a christian, but a deist. Google "atheist-turned-deist dies", and the first result is from christianpost, stating he was a deist.
Also, repeating your Logical Positivism and Gödel's Theorems arguments does nothing to address the fatal flaw in them which I already pointed out - the fact that they do nothing to prove your religion over others. Would you care to address that?
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy and I know you're a liar, futureboy. A desperate one. Flew wrote the words I read, the ones you never hope to or will. Even as a deist, he's defeated your purpose, i.e. to say there is no god—when Flew's book is titled "THERE IS A GOD! How the World's Most Famous Atheist Changed His Mind" :) Of course you wouldn't want to come to terms with the import of Flew's or Goedel's work *I* told you about. You're the 1 who needs to address it, forgetting your constant denialism. Fight *that*.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur "Flew wrote the words"
And I also read the words he wrote, which I quoted, remember?? I specifically quoted him saying that your god was an "omnipotent Oriental [despot]" and a "cosmic Saddam [Hussein]"
"he's defeated your purpose"
No, he defeated yours. I never had a purpose for him, which is why I didn't bring him up. I merely pointed out how your name-dropping of him failed because he was never a christian as you mistakenly said.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy I know why you can't hear the truth. Because God made you dumb. You can't help it. You're just an animal,eh? tsk poor thing, you believe your own lies. That makes you not pretty damned & stupid like you could impress Someone. You've come undone: Flew *believed* in God hence *his* book: THERE IS A GOD! How foolish are you? Quite & very. God AND Flew *constantly* make a liar of you. Yet, honestly I hope you please yourself best in hurry finding your highway to hell & get there 'safely'.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur "why you can't hear the truth"
If you tried actually speaking rationally, it might help, otherwise, you just seem like an enraged christian who doesn't know how to cope with the fact that your arguments are unfounded. I already accepted Flew's belief in god - I have no problem with that, but you still seem to be ignorant of what he thought about the christian god. I don't have to lie about it, nor did I.
futureboy 1 week ago
I won't admit that I lied because I did no such thing. I explained why and how I made those two errors, and apologized for them, something that you seem unable to accept, as it's probably easier for you to just spout anger and flames at me instead of rationally respond to my posts.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy You're a liar. Why would you think I'd lie about David Aikman being a former MILITANT atheist? You have no answer because you're a bullshitting liar. That's the ony reason why you'd choose to doubt it without any legitimate reason why. You lie...Stop. Please. You're found out. I'm not angry. It's typical atheist 'integrity' at its best...nothing new in you. You're just another atheist liar liar. *shrug* I'm only here to make sure others know better than you care to. Thanks.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur "Why would you think I'd lie"
Because, as I already explained, in all the info on him I found, there is nothing mentioned about his conversion. Do you actually read posts in their entirety?
"I'm only here to make sure others know better than you care to."
Oh, really? Then why did you keep asserting that Flew was a christian, and kept ignoring the fact that he was a deist, and my point about the fact that he had nothing good to say about the christian god?
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy God help you. The plain assertion you keep trying to misconstrue is that FORMER atheist ANTONY FLEW BELIEVED IN GOD and wrote THERE IS A GOD! so literal dumbasses like you would know it. And this "nothing about Christian God" you say? AGAIN it's real simple, Stupid. He wrote that CHRISTIANITY of ALL religions, disavowing your fuqtup atheism, was MOST ATTRACTIVE TO HIM. & you keep lying about Aiken too! the MILITANT Atheist disbelieving when you had NO reason to but 4ur damn stupidity.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
Like I said before, he was quoted as not believing in the christian god, no matter what you can quote him saying about how he felt about Wright's presentation of christianity. You can ignore it all you like, but he was not a christian - he was a deist. That only adds to the problem behind your mentioning the positivism and theorems; they do nothing to prove the existence of the christian god.
Also, I don't keep lying about Aiken - I explained that. Try reading posts sometimes.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy hello liar..remember you're the one who *keeps* MISquoting FORMER atheists w/your 'misunderstandings' hello??? you there? Knock on wood? Yes, that's David AIKMAN, not Aiken, also FORMER ATHEIST and who is a Christian I believe because if you google it
"David Aikman - Home Page...Cached...
His topic will be "On Their Turf: How to Refute the Atheists." Aikman is available that weekend to speak to groups and churches in and around the Philadelphia."
You LOSER!!!
sexyeur 1 week ago
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@sexyeur "you're the one who *keeps* MISquoting"
Please explain how I have misquoted anyone, because as far as I can tell you're the one who's misquoting. You're the one who takes Flew's praise of Wright's presentation of christianity to mean he was christian. That is a gross falsification - especially after I quoted for you what Flew said about the christian god, and provided a reference that said he died a deist - not a christian - from a christian news source, no less.
futureboy 1 week ago
LoL dead I hope he gone to heaven
SuckMeOffx9 2 weeks ago
Hitchens smashes all competition as usual.
OnkelStein 2 weeks ago 2
Humanity has created thousands of gods throughout the centuries. Why should the Biblical God be seen as any different than Thor, Odin, Apollo and Zeus? Hopefully, Christianity will be referred to as "hebrew mythology" in the future. We don't NEED this shit, and it divides and destroys humanity. Fuck religion.
OnkelStein 2 weeks ago
Religion is on it's way out. Exciting times :)
greyglee 2 weeks ago
Most atheist claim that goodness mercy love and many fruits of His own Spirit are desireable.So why is it any risk believing? If you believe, and you are right, you've won everything! If you believe and your wrong, you've lost nothing. But it's more basic and proper to believer "There IS a God!" as former-atheist Antony Flew testified believing, than to assume the astounding complexity of DNA could arrive merely haphazardly. Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project, the Language of God.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur errr...that is Francis Collins, head of the Human Genome Project which decoded our DNA, calls his book about it "The Language of God," NOT "The Occasional 'Random' House of Cards"... ;) hehe We have scientifically "unexplainable" DNA so far by secular perversion alone. DNA to say the least is fairly complex and found in every cell in our body. Funny how genuinely apropos Dr. Collin's title is then. Glory! Amen!
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur The fact that there are intelligent and successful people who believe in god does not make god true.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion and it does not make it any less true either. You'll always have that choice: faith or doubt...it's about what you're willing to believe of Him! It's your perfect adventure! Behold I set before you life and death God says, Choose ye this day whom you will serve..but I say most do this without thinking in everyday mindless living, if they're not considering Him at all :( He''s not a hateful God. He loves all His creatures especially the ones who can't always understand Him. :)
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur and there you have the crux of the matter, taking faith is based on reason if you believe what you want and hopeful is attainable and "reasonable" to us. God can do anything. it's up to us to believe it. Faith can "activate" miraculous powers and yet God says that faith without love is nothing. He says we could mountains and without love nothing really matters! That's how WE are too!!! Amazing at the end of it...Consider and praise Him!!!
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur I have seen no evidence for a god therefore I have no reason to believe that a god exists.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion its in the heart of man, that knows there is a god.
999Thip 2 weeks ago
@999Thip Hearts don't know anything. Hearts pump blood.
I don't think that anyone knows whether a god exists. One may believe that a god exsist. One may even believe that they know whether god exists. But that's different from actually knowing that a god exists.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur Why not just believe? You've nothing to loose and everything to gain!
This is a well known argument known as Pascals Wager and it's deeply flawed for various reasons.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion You take a deeper critical look with respect to doubt than to faith. "O ye of little faith...how long shall I endure you." Yeshua said. You need faith to interface with the infinite. You must trust like a child jumping into his Father's arms for the first time. Love never fails, Scriptures assure. God is love to those who love Him. Wager love if you can't faith. Hope is another thing that lasts. Scripture calls hope the anchor of the soul, bcuz His gives us our hearts desire
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem PROVED the utter fallibility of all logic. Scientists hated him but "it's not a matter of liking it or disliking it, you see there is proof.." & that's all there is to it. There were no flaws in his work. Perfect. Basically he proved there would always be things true that can never be PROVED to be true. This devastated his contemporaries. So much for all this scientism so prevalent today and we still have death & all manner of disease celebrating "grand" evolution
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
While you may seem to know what you're talking about, you are completely wrong about the theorems and their philosophical implications. Gödel's Theorems (there are 2) deal with formal systems, not religion. Furthermore, however successfully you may put forth such arguments, they provide no reason whatsoever to believe in the god of the bible over anything else it is possible to believe in without evidence. It's really just an exercise of the Liar Paradox in formal systems.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion Why do you believe in the fallacy of logical positivism? It's been dead for many years. When the world was starving for the security of certainty in maths and sciences, they saw their foundations crumbling beneath them in Cantor, Boltzman, Goedel, and Turring; and your scientific establishment couldn't discredit and so shamefully mocked and abhorrently trivialized greater thinking men. Tragedy is still we have yet to come to terms with the uncertain implications of their work
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur The fallacy of logical positivism? I've not heard of that before.
I base my beliefs on evidence. Evidence which is reliable and trustworthy. I don't find the claims within the bible anywhere near to being relieble or trustworthy and I don't see how anyone else can.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion "i dont see how anyone else can"
and I'm glad you can't cuz it's clear you would pretend to think for the rest of us who do know better as everything you said is logical positivism, and I tell you the truth, it's long dead. You need to regroup and reevaluate. You can read about the death of logical positivism in Antony Flew's book because he's the one who originally championed it. He himself disavowed it. He said Chrisitianity held the most gravity 4him.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
Again, you don't know what you are talking about. Logical positivism is not a fallacy.
Also, any connection between the flaws of logical positivism and philosophical debate has nothing to do with theistic claims, nor does it give credit for your theistic claim over others.
"When the world was starving" "they saw their foundations crumbling beneath them"
More spiritual BS. Name-drop all you want; it won't convince anyone you know what you're talking about.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy Your just stupid deceiver. READ Antony Flew's book THERE IS A GOD: HOW THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS ATHEIST CHANGED HIS MIND, and you'll know. The death of logical positivism was disavowed by its greatest champion. He hated it because scumbags like you keep insisting on it. tsk tsk tsk Serious atheist don't go there, Stupid. The work of Cantor, Goedel etc. they are PROOFS of the real limits of science. The Incompleteness Theorem is a logical scientific proof, Stupid, not a spiritual one.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
Blackwell just brings his one line about the US being built on christian morals over and over and then laughs at Hichtens' historical facts. What a smug asshole. A true christian.
0122460166 2 weeks ago
The End of Christian America? heh. What a tool, just like the rest of you God-haters...petulance is your greatest hallmark. Not truth. Denialism *is* your religion, you damn fools REPENT!
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur You think that the bible is true?
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion Let me guess Denialism is the best "rational" Delusion? I advise you read the work of former *militant* atheist, former Times correspondent David Aikman's "The Delusion of Denialism: Why the New Atheism is a Threat to Your Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness". Peter Veith is yet another of my favorite former atheists! ;) I also love how the world's most famous atheist Antony Flew change his mind with "There IS A God!". Hitchens too. Many atheists made BETTER Christians!! :)
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur Why do you believe that there's such a thing as a god?
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion Prophecy. AND for the reasons I've already cited..but you wouldn't look because you've tragically underestimated them all. Scriptures could be true in your case to say that even should the dead rise, those too eagerly neglecting the prophets should never believe, even with their own eyes, because seeing they see not and hearing they hear not. It's a mystery only God can reveal. Only Believers marvel at the awesomeness of God! But without faith it is impossible to please God,
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur Give me your best example of a prophecy.
Faith is not a good thing to have. faith is simply believing something for no good reason.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion "faith is simply believing something for no good reason"
use a little imagination just for the sake of "quantum" possibilities :) what if you'd allow that faith could be believing for a very good reason. I've given you several sources, but I'm not going to spoon feed you. You should desire the Truth for the it's own sake, and not what you presume it should already mean to you when you haven't known Him yet. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Just believe.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur The only good reason for believing something is if there is reliable evidence. Faith is belief in the absense of evidence.
'Just believe'. That says it all really.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@RationalConclusion No you can come to God using Reason, in fact God invites us to reason with Him. He's not irrational. He made your sanity too. ;) But it's not the *best* way. Faith rather is more Scripturally defined "the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen." Why shoot a basketball if you don't have some faith it could go in, & more often with practice, given 'faith'. Faith is not weak as some suppose. It's one of only 3 things that last. Faith is a gift from God.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur It sounds like what you're explaining is hope.
RationalConclusion 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
Hilarious! You can't even name-drop properly! The book is called "The Delusion of Disbelief", and has been roundly rejected as being filled with falsifications and conveniently ignored or omitted historical facts. Also, David Aikman was never an atheist! Furthermore, even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that Aikman's tirades are even slightly true and atheism is an evil force, it still fails to give even one shred of evidence to support your religion! Epic fail!
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy "David Aikman was never an atheist!"
you're not an atheist, you're just a petty liar—even worse. Google Books tells the truth fortunately & so does Aikman himself in his book, which I actually read: "He holds two doctorates from Oxford, the first of which he earned in 1966. ... a militant atheist. In 1996 ... A New Yorker profile called him “Britain's village atheist ..."
futureboy it'd be better a millstone were tied to your neck and you were thrown into the sea. Amen.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
I admit that my knowledge of Aikman was incorrect, as there is quite little of his conversion mentioned anywhere. For that I apologize. My intention wasn't to lie. Now, can you address and explain the reasons for your inaccuracies (lies)?
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy You should admit that you're a liar, instead, when you had no legitimate reason to disbelieve, but for your petulant suck-ass denialism. You intend rather to mislead others, and I will make you eat your own shit, pig. Wallow in the mud some more, eh? LIAR.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
Flew never converted to christianity. Here's what he says about his belief: "I'm thinking of a god very different from the god of the christian and far and away from the god of islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins."
Your lie about Hitchens is also absurd.
The fact that you have to resort to lying sinfully about famous people converting to christianity proves even you yourself realize that you have no valid points to make.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy Another book I actually read, Flew writes in "There IS a God! How the World's Most Famous Atheist CHANGED HIS MIND" that he is most impressed with N.T. Wright's presentation and that if ANY religion holds any profound attraction to him, it is undoubtedly Christianity. Enough said. As well, Hitchens brother has disavowed atheism as a serious danger, and has converted to Christianity. Google it. Chronic Denialism tends to make desperate liars, like you, a most VALID POINT I also make.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
Check again, champ, Flew died a deist, and never openly accepted the christian faith. I can understand your wishful thinking made you to jump to conclusions and mistakenyl assume that his praise of Wright's presentation meant he was a christian. Just as I mistakenly assumed that when you said "Hitchens too [changed his mind]" that you meant Christopher Hitchens, when you were really talking about his much-less-known brother Peter. I'm sorry for such a simple misunderstanding.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur
However, if you think that these misunderstandings have in some way proven you right, you're way off. You've yet to address any of the counters to your rantings I've posted.
"a most VALID POINT I also make"
I'm wondering about the word "also" in there, because it implies you've made other valid points. Could you paraphrase those, perhaps? Because I'm fairly certain that none of the posts you've made in reply to mine have contained anything of validity.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy 'misunderstandings' *your* LYING ass...There are many more former atheists. My point is that they believe in God. Hitchens, Flew, Veith, Lewis, Aikens, etcetera :) ALL FORMER atheists who disavowed the crap you now spew in much much GREATER detail and eloquence. You tune it out cuz it's not what you are. You're more of a liar than they care to be. Word—and sadly that's probably the most valid point you allow me to make. *shrug* But ALL are equally valid. I don't lie like you do.
sexyeur 2 weeks ago
@sexyeur I don't know if you're trying to get a rise out of me, repeatedly calling me a liar after I explained why it happened (once because I hadn't enough info, the 2nd time because you called Peter Hitchens "Hitchens" - really dumb on your part, btw). You fail to get me to react angrily, and only continue to seem more belligerently angry yourself - a very unchristian characteristic, not being able to control your wrath. One day you'll look back and be ashamed of yourself.
futureboy 1 week ago
Hitchens's main arguments:
1. Founding American documents are secular at heart, and though they do not exclude religion from American society, the constitution omits the mention of God.
2. The founding fathers were atheists (though the first word he describes is deists), including Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and others.
3. At 8:05 in the video, he mentions an article which proves declining faith in the American public.
4. The US's enemy is the most devoutly religious adversary yet.
RIP
NoDerpingAllowed 2 weeks ago
Have no idea what the heck Blackwell did in trying to refute the fact of Benji and Washington being Atheists or atleast non christian. He took a weird turn in denying that.
Issaquan5 2 weeks ago
one goes into specifics to make his point, the other asserts vague relations and repeats them if counterargued. Can you spot the one that knows what he's talking about?
darkmater4tm 3 weeks ago
OH AND 6.00
cuove 3 weeks ago
4.40 Is a typical response from a religious person. Start smugly laughing as if they have an answer for your rebuke but then refuses to really explain why they dismiss your point.
cuove 3 weeks ago
Oh behalf of the great state of Ohio, I apologize that you have to endure the moronic Ken Blackwell. He's from Cincinnati, the same place that tried to get laws passed in the state congress to require people to baptize their pets........seriously.
jschultzVII 3 weeks ago
@jschultzVII im from ohio too and i cringe every time this idiot opens his mouth.
MsDDiddy 2 weeks ago
Fuck Christians it's all about that Jew shit!
mymarkis666 3 weeks ago
And Ken Blackwell is just laughing because he's being mowed down. Oh man, what an idiot <3 Religion and idiotic behavior unfortunately flows in the same direction...
OculusMachi 4 weeks ago
To paraphrase, "Chris - you're no Bertrand Russell".
TodayFreedom 1 month ago
I feel so bad for that Ken guy, just getting demolished by Christopher.
Justpooinabush 1 month ago
Why is a black man defending the same world view that enslaved his people in the first place?
rnalithe00 1 month ago
Blackwell has been schooled by Professor Hitchens.In other words Hitchslapped!
Instantfunk1978 1 month ago
I don't have the faith to be an atheist!
highoctave1 1 month ago
@highoctave1 you don't have "a belief without evidence" to be an Atheist? Makes no sense, try again. Think about this clearly before replying. Atheist's are non believers in any god's existence. We require evidence in order to believe something to be factual. Theists are believers in a god with faith (no evidence) who don't require any evidence to believe what they believe. Now which one seems more rational to you?
Happy Winter Solstice!
EddieSchultz62 1 month ago
@highoctave1 faith is not required for unbelief. However, with statements like yours above, you have certainly demonstrated that you don't have the capacity for critical thinking that many atheists enjoy.
MisterDataJack 1 month ago
@MisterDataJack my comment was a tongue in cheek remark; I said that to say this there's so much evidence of " intelligent design" that to be an atheist you have to insist with " faith" but what is faith? the conviction of what you don't see and the hope of what you expect. just look around you and think critically even the colors on animales and vegetation match nicely!!!
highoctave1 1 month ago
@highoctave1 Oops. My apologies.
MisterDataJack 1 month ago
@highoctave1 "there's so much evidence of intelligent design"
Unfortunately, you're wrong. ID is merely one interpretation (of many) of the observed facts that posits there is or was something outside our current understanding that acted as designer. ID is not evidence of god and, as such, not something that goes against atheism. MisterDataJack was right when he said you don't have the capacity for critical thinking. Also, could you explain more about the colors "on animales" part?
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy besides ID and evolution what other options are there? alliens? about the "colors" issue; what I meant to say was that the biggest problem a painter faces is how to work with colors that match in order to make reality what he envisioned, however, in nature we see the harmony of colors that had to come from a "critical thinking mind" or ID if you will. Just a simple observation about art in nature. Atheism is not an intellectual issue is a spiritual issue, atheism is worship of self
highoctave1 2 weeks ago
@highoctave1 The other options are irrelevant, as the point was that belief in ID does not require atheism, or theism, for that matter. You specifically gave ID as an example of atheists requiring faith to not believe in something that had "so much evidence". You were wrong. Also, your supposedly simple observation carries a gross assumption about the truth of ID, which hasn't been conclusively proven nor accepted as true.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy Like I said this is not an intellectual issue but rather a spiritual one; for instance Isaiah 40:22 : the earth is a sphere, Jeremiah33:22: innumerable stars and Job 26:7:free float of earth in space; all this and more was written before the word atheism was ever coined. But everyone worships! and atheism worships the "self-made -man" face it, we had our day in the sun and we botched it. In reality nobody is born an atheist since evryone is born with a sense of the divine ........
highoctave1 2 weeks ago
@highoctave1 "In reality nobody is born an atheist since evryone is born with a sense of the divine".
Can you present any evidence for this fantastic claim?
greyglee 2 weeks ago
@highoctave1 "not an intellectual issue"
Ignoring intellectual points and citing scripture does not make an issue spiritual instead of intellectual, it just makes you ignorant of the principles of intellectual debate.
"all this and more was written before the word atheism"
This means nothing but the "fact" (you haven't supported it) that some words existed before others.
"everyone worships" "nobody is born an atheist"
More assumptions. It appears that for you "spiritual" means BS.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy ... An awareness of God which is another way of saying that the law of God is written in the hearts of men. There's a well known phrase " Do what thou wilt" which is really what's behind atheism; it simply means I won't submit to God so to escape that idea I will deny He exists But let me ask you a critical thinking question: why do you argue, debate and fight something or someone you don't believe in?
highoctave1 2 weeks ago
@highoctave1 "the law of God is written in the hearts of men"
More conjecture (spiritual BS).
"what's behind atheism" "deny He exists"
Young don't know what atheism is. I don't need to deny anything.
"a critical thinking question"
You don't know what critical thinking is, either. In any case, it doesn't matter why - I could just as well be a christian providing a "devil's advocate" argument. Until you can successfully counter the points made, asking why they are made is irrelevant.
futureboy 2 weeks ago
@futureboy why do you fight what you don't believe in? maybe you don't want to talk about it but I know this: you and hitchens along with lenin, stalin etc. one day will bow down and your forked tongs will confess that JesusCrist is Lord wanting or not. Just to give you a hint of what having to submit to His Will is check this out: what year is this Mr. Critical thinking? ...time's up is 2012 AD! time is counted only after His Birth! and you have to write down 2012 and take it and live with it
highoctave1 1 week ago
@highoctave1 "fight what you don't believe in"
I already explained that this was irrelevant. Please don't let that stop you from thinking about the points I made.
I don't mind talking about it. It's really simple - you believe all non-believers are going to hell; I don't. No big deal. What's worth discussing is the absurdity of why you believe it. 2012? Wow, since when do you believe that? Because it'll be really sad when '12 is over, and you'll have to find the next ultimatum.
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy next ultimatum? I never said or thought that the end of the antichrist world is in 2012. Time only mattered to people after He was born; and my point was that it must be irritating having to yield in some form or way year after year to the very concept and/or Deity you so despise.
highoctave1 1 week ago
@highoctave1 What makes you think I despise the Jesus concept? Also, you really need to study up on your history. If you think that nobody cared about time before Jesus, you're dumber than you've made yourself seem until now. First of all, nobody's sure about the fact that 1 AD is the year JC was born, because the BC/AD calendar wasn't in widespread use until 800-900. It seems his supposed birth didn't matter to anyone for hundreds of years.
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy nobody serves 2 lords either you are for Jesus or God or against him, either you adore him or despise him there's no middle ground. Again; the point is that no matter what happend until 800-900. time is counted as of today since the day of his birth. Now do you have prove of that data or you just have "faith" in it? Clearly for the other hundreds of years people did care until now
highoctave1 1 week ago
@highoctave1 "serves 2 lords" Serve 2 lords? Are you even listening to yourself?? Who made you the decider of who serves, despises or adores who? Do you really believe that it's just a simple question of adoring or despising? Are you so naive that you think the rest of the world is as simple-minded as you are?
"time is counted as of today since the day of his birth" This is just too funny for words! You really don't know what you're talking about.
futureboy 1 week ago
@futureboy I don't decide who serves who, that wasn't even close. That is just the way God looks at it. is either light or darkness for God or against God. is not a narrow minded approach God simply calls for a desicion are you with me or not. I see you are getting in touch with your anger, hey If you don't believe you don't have to! Like I said this is not an intellectual issue this is an spiritual issue
highoctave1 1 week ago
@highoctave1 Unfortunately you're wrong. You feel it's a choice between christian god or no christian god, when you ignore all the other possibilities - which IS narrow-minded. Why should one choose to believe in your god over others, when there's just as much of the spiritual BS to support those?
And what anger? I was simply expressing incredulity.
"If you don't believe you don't have to" And the same applies to you, as you haven't produced one shred of support for your belief.
futureboy 1 week ago
RIP Christopher Hitchens, you were a great man.
Antonomon 1 month ago
R.I.P
MrFunxy 1 month ago
a freaking christian on cnn even said that hitchens held strong onto his non-belief in death.
effing trolls
mateo4424 1 month ago
and and and and and ken blackwell is a douchebag
mateo4424 1 month ago
number one rule of debating never let the other guy talk
username2069 1 month ago
Why was Guy Blackdude smiling the entire time when he was getting his ass handed to him.
33bynum 1 month ago
@33bynum proberly because he understands that in the end jesus will return, and people like that rude white guy will be sent to hell where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, and the black dude will be in heaven.
999Thip 1 month ago
@999Thip It amazes me people believe in religion when I could argue that Harry Potter is as real as it. Also imaging in a man right now started saying he was the son of god and he was talking to god so we need to worship him as jesus. That man would be regarded as literally an insane person. People like you who were most likely born into a religious family are brainwashed into believing this garbage because in the end you will know the truth; religion is made up to keep people in line.
33bynum 1 month ago
@33bynum it would be better if you just said, i reject jesus--
make it simple,
all else is bla bla bla, bla bla BLA BLA bla
999Thip 1 month ago
@999Thip And that is why one cannot argue with a theist.
33bynum 1 month ago
@33bynum the word is debate..
999Thip 1 month ago
@999Thip My point exactly. Argue or debate one thing and theist change the subject and dont listen to any arguments.
33bynum 1 month ago
I can't debate anyone, I have a low tolerance for people who disagree with me with untrue arguments.
attackzac21 1 month ago
Good old Christian revisionism.. didn't you know everyone is truly Christian at heart? Going back the whole 6000 years the Earth has existed? Then.. you aren't brainwashed by your bible, report to your local reprogramming center immediately so your pastor can fix that.
JaytheOstrich 1 month ago
Nervous laughter throughout.
C4ExplosiveTalk 1 month ago
'If I just keep laughing everyone will surely agree with me.' Idiot... smh
rozster1 1 month ago
Man that smile is the most irritating thing in the world... covering up his ignorance and the fact that he knows he was destroyed by Hitch in a few well structured phrases.
Julz787878 1 month ago
Damn I already miss him!!
gskowal 1 month ago
Ken keeps talking but he doesn't say anything. Winning.
RasmusDraegerNielsen 1 month ago
Hitchens destroys him. A mind this clear will be greatly missed
iamlordalmar 1 month ago
I just couldn't help but lash out when Blackwell began his condescending laugh. I doubt that many people could really take such a irritating and foolish laugh like that.
Domiok 1 month ago
HAHA Go Hitch!
feralpandy