Whaaaaaaaattttttt!!!! School is cool. Economics Rock and so is MATH! Mwaahahaahaaha. I love Calculus and Writing! I'm majoring in English and Math with a minor in Business. WOO!
Nowadays, education has turn more into a business. They do not teach much, but charge student so much money. I wish I had the courage to be a monk when I was in high school. Now I'm in so much debt from going to 4 years of college.
Just because something is "natural" or not does not make it in accordance with the dharma. I don't think it is a good measurement of good /bad right / wrong. For examle we could say that it is natural for men and women to live together, engage in sexual relations, and have families. That certainly is true but it does not make those acts better in terms of dharma.
@TheSwross it's semantics, really... still, I would argue that there is nothing natural in things like men or women or poking body parts into either; these are pretty clearly artificial constructs. It seems far more natural is to give up all such constructs, which is indeed what I understand the dharma to be; so it seems to me that natural does equal dharmic.
@yuttadhammo The semantics of Buddhisms idea of "natural" verses evolutions idea of "natural" is an important point in this discussion. Just because a monkey doesn't do something doesn't mean that human's should emulate their example. As in the example of going to school. Monkey's don't meditate either does that mean that we shouldn't meditate. I'm sure you don't think so...
I think that you were a lucky person to have parents to encourage your interests and explorations. Not every person has parents like that though, so education can provide them with an external source they can use to explore things like buddhism with. Things their parents might actually discourage in some cases. Any tool that can increase potential enlightenment should not be dismissed to easily.
when i was in elementary school i had to go to the learning center, and even over the most common math problems i couldnt handle it, i now think that the school didnt truly help with my learning challenge, its all just "Do this, not that"
and they only focus on keeping me like that instead of helping me do normal math on a normal level.
@pathsounds I agree that education is not sufficient - but it's necessary (e.g. for technical advances, but also for the very thing currently going on between you and me: conversation in a language we both understand.)
Most technical advances were achieve from people who drop out of college or don't go at all - Great minds don't need others to teach them, they learn to teach themselves.
@4GreenEarth2 That might be true for Thomas Edison, but that's probably about it. On Wikipedia is a List_of_inventors (go see for yourself). By randomly picking 15 people, I just found one apart from Edison with no institutionalized education. So on basis of a quick&dirty research, the opposite seems true: Most technical inventions are achieved by people WITH university degrees. But I certainly agree with you, that great minds can teach themselves.
Wow, you went to Wiki and just found one ?! Wiki is widely used, but not always a reliable site. Off the top of my head, I can think of Bill Gates, Steve Job, Mark Zuckerberg, and a lot of others who dropped out of college because they saw that institutionalized education only hinders their creativity and free thinking.
@4GreenEarth2 Three outstanding personalities, indeed. The question remains: Are they the normal case or are they exceptions? People sometimes think: What comes to my mind very easily, must be the regular case in the world. (called availability heuristics) Unfortunatly that's not always a very reliable method as we tend (me inclueded) to have cognitive biases. That's why I looked into 15 randomly chosen inventors to extrapolate from that sample.
Normal v.s Exceptions - are really semantics . Who is it to say what's normal or exceptions. These are just concepts defined by institutionalized society to hinder the creative thinking of a free mind - perhaps what should be normal are those minds like Bill Gates, Steve Job, etc...but because of the restrictions and limitations institutionalized society taught us we can't see the truth.
@4GreenEarth2 Sorry, I meant "normal/exceptional" in a statistical way, purely descriptive. When you claim, that most of the technical advances are achieved by people dropped out of school, then you actually say what normally/usually is the case - according to your opinion. And I just say: Well, there are some exceptional cases where uneducated people invent cool stuff, but usually they are achieved by educated people.
@yuttadhammo You've completely missed the point. The tool itself does not determine its value, it's how you use it. And I can't help but wonder where you think you would have gotten your eye glasses and computer from if it wasn't for institutionalized education. All the insight in the world won't teach you how to make those.
@TBucker just look at the world, it's a mess, and these institutions help to perpetuate this. People would and do still learn and make discoveries without institutionalized education, I'm a computer expert and I have no real computer qualifications or training, I taught myself through practice. Most parents teach their kids to read, that's all the learning you need to teach yourself. PS The first eyeglasses were made in Italy at about 1286, long before institutionalized education!
@NlKNAK72 "just look at the world, it's a mess, and these institutions help to perpetuate this" Wow, sorry, I didn't know we had a *cough* computer expert in the room. Hey guys, I know what's wrong with the world today...there's just too many schools! HAHA wwwoooowww. Wanna know what the REAL problem is? It's people like YOU who think that school is a joke. Try learning how to be a doctor without college. Try being an engineer. The fact that you can fix my PC is not impressive.
@TBucker He's not saying doctors are bad. As a teacher, I have to say that I agree in large part with what this monk is talking about. School, from my perspective is more aimed at perpetuating ruling class money values and reducing education to tasks for students to perform. It's an obedience mill. We also need to rank our populace so that we can decide who is going to dominate whom in the future, cause perpetuating equality would be a threat to the elite power structure that we serve.
@TBucker The idea is...that people today are blinded from their personal power. You can be a doctor today without college - all the information is out there. What's generally missing these days is the focus, the motivation, and the commitment to the path you wish to travel. So we rely on others, because we've been conditioned to, to teach us a curriculum - when it's much more empowering doing it on our own time, knowing where our own mental/spiritual/emotional roadblocks are.
@TBucker The idea is...that people today are blinded from their personal power. You can be a doctor today without college - all the information is out there. What's generally missing these days is the focus, the motivation, and the commitment to the path you wish to travel. So we rely on others, because we've been conditioned to, to teach us a curriculum - when it's much more empowering doing it on our own time, knowing where our own mental/spiritual/emotional roadblocks are.
@pathsounds A college professor probably wont be able to understand why you have a problem doing your homework or why you do good in class but totally freeze up on tests. Oftentimes in bigger classes they wont even care. They don't even know who you are. Only you can ask the questions to why you feel this way, or why you're holding yourself back from success. That's the problem with school. It forces you to learn, when we naturally put up barriers that block us from truly learning.
@pathsounds NOW - this isn't to say that school is bad. But school is a 5th chakra event, introduced to society where the vast majority doesn't even have a strong 1st-4th chakra. So no wonder we fail, no wonder we hate it. It's just approached in the wrong point in our lives.
@yuttadhammo I think you are being far too harsh. Take for example when you start shooting off some of the products that come from modern education. Modern education also provides medicine and methods to help people. I agree with Tbucker and think that education is a tool, and like any tool (even a machine gun) what matters is the intention of the person using it, or not using it at all.
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all, it is to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. - H.L. Mencken
@UU361 If I wished a boy to know something about the arts and sciences, for instance, I would not pursue the common course, which is merely to send him into the neighborhood of some professor, where any thing is professed and practised but the art of life.
Whaaaaaaaattttttt!!!! School is cool. Economics Rock and so is MATH! Mwaahahaahaaha. I love Calculus and Writing! I'm majoring in English and Math with a minor in Business. WOO!
Ant29 2 months ago
Great video, thank you so much
WantedAngelina 2 months ago
Nowadays, education has turn more into a business. They do not teach much, but charge student so much money. I wish I had the courage to be a monk when I was in high school. Now I'm in so much debt from going to 4 years of college.
4GreenEarth2 2 months ago
Very controversial view, but I'm thankful that you did this. My respect for you shot up 100%. It was already at 100% to begin with.
oxboxtox 2 months ago
Sickness old age and death is the highest school you can attend
humaner 3 months ago
@humaner Real school can postpone sickness old age and death.
TBucker 2 months ago
Hi Yuttadhammo,
Just because something is "natural" or not does not make it in accordance with the dharma. I don't think it is a good measurement of good /bad right / wrong. For examle we could say that it is natural for men and women to live together, engage in sexual relations, and have families. That certainly is true but it does not make those acts better in terms of dharma.
TheSwross 3 months ago
@TheSwross it's semantics, really... still, I would argue that there is nothing natural in things like men or women or poking body parts into either; these are pretty clearly artificial constructs. It seems far more natural is to give up all such constructs, which is indeed what I understand the dharma to be; so it seems to me that natural does equal dharmic.
yuttadhammo 3 months ago
@yuttadhammo The semantics of Buddhisms idea of "natural" verses evolutions idea of "natural" is an important point in this discussion. Just because a monkey doesn't do something doesn't mean that human's should emulate their example. As in the example of going to school. Monkey's don't meditate either does that mean that we shouldn't meditate. I'm sure you don't think so...
TheSwross 3 months ago
@yuttadhammo
I think that you were a lucky person to have parents to encourage your interests and explorations. Not every person has parents like that though, so education can provide them with an external source they can use to explore things like buddhism with. Things their parents might actually discourage in some cases. Any tool that can increase potential enlightenment should not be dismissed to easily.
Susgog 2 months ago
when i was in elementary school i had to go to the learning center, and even over the most common math problems i couldnt handle it, i now think that the school didnt truly help with my learning challenge, its all just "Do this, not that"
and they only focus on keeping me like that instead of helping me do normal math on a normal level.
TheFarmerboyproducti 3 months ago
Doesn't it seem a bit ironic to talk about the uselessness of education via such a modern technical achievement like the internet?
Sofaklecks 3 months ago 6
@Sofaklecks Lol, this did not come solely from modern education. Originality, ideas, creativity, when do you learn that in school?
pathsounds 2 months ago
@pathsounds I agree that education is not sufficient - but it's necessary (e.g. for technical advances, but also for the very thing currently going on between you and me: conversation in a language we both understand.)
Sofaklecks 2 months ago
@Sofaklecks
Most technical advances were achieve from people who drop out of college or don't go at all - Great minds don't need others to teach them, they learn to teach themselves.
4GreenEarth2 2 months ago
@4GreenEarth2 That might be true for Thomas Edison, but that's probably about it. On Wikipedia is a List_of_inventors (go see for yourself). By randomly picking 15 people, I just found one apart from Edison with no institutionalized education. So on basis of a quick&dirty research, the opposite seems true: Most technical inventions are achieved by people WITH university degrees. But I certainly agree with you, that great minds can teach themselves.
Sofaklecks 2 months ago
@Sofaklecks
Wow, you went to Wiki and just found one ?! Wiki is widely used, but not always a reliable site. Off the top of my head, I can think of Bill Gates, Steve Job, Mark Zuckerberg, and a lot of others who dropped out of college because they saw that institutionalized education only hinders their creativity and free thinking.
4GreenEarth2 2 months ago
@4GreenEarth2 Three outstanding personalities, indeed. The question remains: Are they the normal case or are they exceptions? People sometimes think: What comes to my mind very easily, must be the regular case in the world. (called availability heuristics) Unfortunatly that's not always a very reliable method as we tend (me inclueded) to have cognitive biases. That's why I looked into 15 randomly chosen inventors to extrapolate from that sample.
Sofaklecks 2 months ago
@Sofaklecks
Normal v.s Exceptions - are really semantics . Who is it to say what's normal or exceptions. These are just concepts defined by institutionalized society to hinder the creative thinking of a free mind - perhaps what should be normal are those minds like Bill Gates, Steve Job, etc...but because of the restrictions and limitations institutionalized society taught us we can't see the truth.
4GreenEarth2 2 months ago
@4GreenEarth2 Sorry, I meant "normal/exceptional" in a statistical way, purely descriptive. When you claim, that most of the technical advances are achieved by people dropped out of school, then you actually say what normally/usually is the case - according to your opinion. And I just say: Well, there are some exceptional cases where uneducated people invent cool stuff, but usually they are achieved by educated people.
Sofaklecks 2 months ago
I agree with UU361
ilovetodraw555 3 months ago
5:05 "What other animal goes to school?" Fish ; - )
Bakmoon 3 months ago 9
I completely disagree with this. Education, like most things, is a tool. It's how you use that tool which determines its value.
TBucker 3 months ago 4
@TBucker a machine gun is also just a tool, this is not a good argument for the usefulness of institutionalized education.
yuttadhammo 3 months ago 5
@yuttadhammo You've completely missed the point. The tool itself does not determine its value, it's how you use it. And I can't help but wonder where you think you would have gotten your eye glasses and computer from if it wasn't for institutionalized education. All the insight in the world won't teach you how to make those.
TBucker 2 months ago
@TBucker just look at the world, it's a mess, and these institutions help to perpetuate this. People would and do still learn and make discoveries without institutionalized education, I'm a computer expert and I have no real computer qualifications or training, I taught myself through practice. Most parents teach their kids to read, that's all the learning you need to teach yourself. PS The first eyeglasses were made in Italy at about 1286, long before institutionalized education!
NlKNAK72 2 months ago
@NlKNAK72 "just look at the world, it's a mess, and these institutions help to perpetuate this" Wow, sorry, I didn't know we had a *cough* computer expert in the room. Hey guys, I know what's wrong with the world today...there's just too many schools! HAHA wwwoooowww. Wanna know what the REAL problem is? It's people like YOU who think that school is a joke. Try learning how to be a doctor without college. Try being an engineer. The fact that you can fix my PC is not impressive.
TBucker 2 months ago
@TBucker He's not saying doctors are bad. As a teacher, I have to say that I agree in large part with what this monk is talking about. School, from my perspective is more aimed at perpetuating ruling class money values and reducing education to tasks for students to perform. It's an obedience mill. We also need to rank our populace so that we can decide who is going to dominate whom in the future, cause perpetuating equality would be a threat to the elite power structure that we serve.
gamma235 2 months ago
@TBucker I'm not trying to impress you, ps, your ego is showing.
NlKNAK72 2 months ago
@TBucker The idea is...that people today are blinded from their personal power. You can be a doctor today without college - all the information is out there. What's generally missing these days is the focus, the motivation, and the commitment to the path you wish to travel. So we rely on others, because we've been conditioned to, to teach us a curriculum - when it's much more empowering doing it on our own time, knowing where our own mental/spiritual/emotional roadblocks are.
pathsounds 2 months ago
@TBucker The idea is...that people today are blinded from their personal power. You can be a doctor today without college - all the information is out there. What's generally missing these days is the focus, the motivation, and the commitment to the path you wish to travel. So we rely on others, because we've been conditioned to, to teach us a curriculum - when it's much more empowering doing it on our own time, knowing where our own mental/spiritual/emotional roadblocks are.
pathsounds 2 months ago
@pathsounds A college professor probably wont be able to understand why you have a problem doing your homework or why you do good in class but totally freeze up on tests. Oftentimes in bigger classes they wont even care. They don't even know who you are. Only you can ask the questions to why you feel this way, or why you're holding yourself back from success. That's the problem with school. It forces you to learn, when we naturally put up barriers that block us from truly learning.
pathsounds 2 months ago
@pathsounds NOW - this isn't to say that school is bad. But school is a 5th chakra event, introduced to society where the vast majority doesn't even have a strong 1st-4th chakra. So no wonder we fail, no wonder we hate it. It's just approached in the wrong point in our lives.
pathsounds 2 months ago
@TBucker
Bill Gate did not created an empire by finishing college. Great minds don't need others to teach them, they learn to teach themselves.
4GreenEarth2 2 months ago
@yuttadhammo I think you are being far too harsh. Take for example when you start shooting off some of the products that come from modern education. Modern education also provides medicine and methods to help people. I agree with Tbucker and think that education is a tool, and like any tool (even a machine gun) what matters is the intention of the person using it, or not using it at all.
MrLogicstorm 1 month ago
The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all, it is to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed a standard citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. - H.L. Mencken
UU361 3 months ago 2
@UU361 If I wished a boy to know something about the arts and sciences, for instance, I would not pursue the common course, which is merely to send him into the neighborhood of some professor, where any thing is professed and practised but the art of life.
-- H. D. Thoreau
yuttadhammo 3 months ago
@UU361
Well that just stinks. Had I read his quote, I would not have decided to go to college and be in debt...
4GreenEarth2 2 months ago