Obama is great. Now Obama care will give us all RFID chips isn't that great. We all will be tracked by Satellite and monitors at every store. I googled this and it becomes mandatory 3 years after full enactment of Obama care. So full enactment start in 2014. We all love Obama so much we should run to the doctors office and get the RFID chip, right.
If this scares the hell out of you then get to the primaries and support RON PAUL to stop the insanity.
@CrogBear oh please, no concsious decision on ANYTHING is done without choice. So calling it pro-choice is redundent. And if no one was pro-abortion, then there wouldnt be abortions in the first place.
@eminem4436 First of all, I never said that, stop putting words in my mouth and you still don't make sense. Take a chill pill. I'm guessing you don't want freedom for people to choose what they do with a couple of cells that are not even conscious. I have my beliefs, and I'm not forcing them on anyone. There's this thing called freedom of speech. All I said is that no one is pro-abortion. As in, no one is going to get pregnant just for the sole purpose of aborting it. Calm. Down.
@CrogBear Wait, are you saying that what is inside a woman is not human? Do you have evidence of that? There is not doubt what inside a woman is alive, meaning it's a life. And because the woman can only give birth to a human, that makes it a human life.
@eminem4436 Sure it's organic, but it doesn't have any measured brain activity untill the 10th week of pregnancy, which is where we would consider it cognitive. Isn't the ability to think what seperates us from the animals? Otherwise you should have laws to prevent animal or plant life killings :)
@Entertekken Believe it or not, you can actually live WITHOUT the majority of yout brain. Id put a link down but Youtube doesnt let you do that so youll have to look it up yourself. And what about this, if we agree that we dont truly know when a human life begins, dont you think its extreamly ruthless to allow abortions without that key piece of information?
@eminem4436 No, I'm sticking to the brain activity thing :) I don't believe in souls, so from a both scientific and philosophical viewpoint, I'd say that before the 10th week, go ahead and slice it out. I'm not saying it couldn't grow into an amazing human being, but generally, people who have abortions aren't gonna give their babies the best chances in life. And you can maybe live without parts of your brain, but would you really want to? I'm sure some function would be missing :)
@Entertekken Actually both scientific and philosophical viewpoints dont know either, so it IS reckless. And, why does the brain make any difference? You cant live AT ALL without a heart, so why not start there?
@eminem4436 Well, then we're back to the animals. The heart only pumps blood around the body. Admittedly, that's a pretty important function, but it has nothing to do with what makes us human, despite what litterature tells us. It's all in the brain, the collective memory and electric impulses that makes us who we are. And they start at the 10th week. That's why it's the law in my country.
@Entertekken Well then, here's a question for you. When EXACTLY do you think life begins? I mean, when during pregnancy. More specifically, is it alive the moment the brain starts forming at 10 weeks in?
@eminem4436 No, life begins of course at the very moment of conception. So, yes it's alive when the brain starts working. Then you'll say "Then how can you justify taking a human life?" And I respond: Abortion is not okay in all situations, but if the mother's health is in danger, if it's a rapechild, if it prevents infanticide, if it prevents severely malformed babies from suffering and if it stops a too young girl from ruining her life, I say yes. It should be an option.
@Entertekken Im in Canada, and currently there is no law on abortion, although idk of any doctors that will abort a child after three months, but if they did, that would be fine.
@eminem4436 I just read up on your history on wiki :) It's pretty cool how one doctor changed the whole system into free abortion. Though I would probably be against abortion if the mother was three months in :)
@Entertekken Although doctor M gets credit for bring this to the supreme court, it wasnt really him that changed the law. And I could go in a big speech about how its even possible, but i dont have many characters left, so I'll leave it at that.
@CrogBear so if there ever was a way to find out that a child is predisposed to be gay and people 'chose for themselves' to abort the child on that basis, you'd still stick by your 'choice' position?
@DREwestcoast Well there isn't a way to tell, so that's not even a problem for now. If there was, then parents should have the decision to do what they want, however I would be extremely against anyone aborting a child on that basis. I'm just saying it depends on the circumstances. Maybe a 14 year old girl was raped and lives in poverty and doesn't want her child to wonder why he/she gave him/her away. Not everything is black and white like you think.
@CrogBear What's your take on down syndrome abortions? as for your example you seriously think that the child would rather never live than having to deal with being adopted? please, tell me you don't hold this view..
@dnanalahcnap How is giving birth killing the mother. I assume that you are eight years old, and are yet the go through sexual education, but there are other ways for a mother to give birth. A c-section for example.
@lovebigboobs29 So it is unfortunate that the person inside has no choice whether or not he/she lives or dies. If an abortion is needed to spare the life of the mother, that's understandable. Seems like most of this pro abortion crap is just party loyalty. A democrat says it's ok, so all the super loyal supporters just go with it. Not like every female is running around having an abortion all the time. The way they talk about it, you'd think that was the case
@cfr53 They have to get an abortion before the fetus is even conscience nor is it even a person when its aborted. People have the right to choose if they want to have an abortion. How is it anyone elses business? Its not. I never said I was a democrat. The current president is an idiot and is a democrat so no I am not going for just what a party says. Their opinions dont influence mine.
@lovebigboobs29 You know the funny part is that I agree with you for the most part. I'm not against laws allowing early abortion, it's nobody's business what people choose to do. It's only my opinion that abortion is immoral. But the thing that does bother me the most about it (among other issues) is that there is so much of this party loyalty crap going on. Another example is pro amnesty for illegals, democrats will support it because "their guy" or "their team" does.
@cfr53 Yeah I am not for amnesty for illegals. We need to do immigration reform for real and send all of them back where they came from. If you're not a citizen ya shouldn't be allowed to live here.
i have made a question that WILL determine. here it goes- if there is a fire and you have the choice between saving a 4 year old girl or a test tube filled with a thousand JUST fertilized eggs, which one would you choose. why?
also mind you, you guys tend to talk about rights, right? then is it ok to chop off some of the kids penis(circumcise) before he can say he wants just that? you kinda just do it any way right?
also, if the brain and heart function then its living, too late to abort.
@cfr53 Did you hear nothing Obama said? He'll legalize early abortion while the baby is still as high of a life form as an ant but illegalize late term abortion.
@planetary109 Late term is generally 4 to 5 months. A fetus has a heartbeat as early as 3 weeks, that was my only point. I don't agree with Obama on many things, but in the case of this video I agree with "as long as there is an exception for the mother's health", just my opinion.
@lovebigboobs29 Lol im going to argue abortion with a guy named "lovebigboobs"
Obviously a guy that digs sluts is going to be pro abortion cause he'd prefer to shirk the responsibility right....
I believe that the unborn is a life. If I didnt think a life was being ended I wouldnt care, but it is a life.
You argue the babys stage of development or the inability to care for itself,make it not important. Regardless I believe the human life that cant speak for themselves should be protected.
@Jamespot24 Unborn isn't a life. Hate to break it to ya but it isn't. Besides its still none of your business if someone gets an abortion. Its onlt the business of the person. Why not get a life and worry about yourself and not what others do. No matter what you think the female will still get an abortion if she wants. Its called freedom of choice. I support Pro-choice always will!
@lovebigboobs29 You are a sheep if you think that after 3-4 months of development its not a life. Premature births have survived after just 5 months in the womb!!!
And yes I do not care if a woman does birth control, but if she ends a life I do care.
@Jamespot24 You can care all you like but the woman will not give a damn what you think and will still get the abortion. Its none of anyones business but the person getting an abortion.
@JDMURDERERS Embryologists the world over agree that it is a complete human life from the moment of conception. When 23 chromosomes of the father join with 23 chromosomes of the mother a new life is formed where none existed before. It has a gender and is fully and uniquely programmed and equipped to grow, develop and change until death. All he or she needs is nutrition and a warm place to grow. Not one single embryology text book on earth denies this. Abortion ends a human life.
obama is full of dung. obama will say anything he thinks voters want to hear even if he is totally against it. Everything out of his mouth is a phoney campaign proimise or a pander. I don't trust him anymore then bernie maddoff.
@TizianoCrudeliNo1Fan europe would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that their working population is shrinking and their elderly population is large. What does that mean? Higher retirement age or end taking care of the elderly.
"Abortion in Ireland is illegal unless the pregnancy is in threat of endangering the life of the woman (as differential to her health) through continuance of the pregnancy."
@stevece80 "Abortion in Ireland is illegal unless the pregnancy is in threat of endangering the life of the woman (as differential to her health) through continuance of the pregnancy."
@stevece80 Abortion in Ireland is ILLEGAL. That is a FACT. If there is a danger to the life of the mother she will get whatever treatment she requires to protect her life even if this poses a threat to the life of her unborn child. This is perfectly ethical, legal and acceptable. This is not abortion. Abortion deliberatly targets the unborn child for death. This is illegal in Ireland. It is also an affront to the natural law and completely immoral.
It's terrible how rape happens, but two wrongs don't make a right, and in Ireland, where health care is free and extremely safe, and morally right, maternal life is extremely rare; abortion is only neccessary when the women's life is in danger, but that's not abortion, that's SAVING the women's life.
@avaiae Isn't that the Republican's favorite gripe? Minimum wage kills jobs?
Get off it! When someone says high, you say low. You disgree to gisagree. You smell up every room you enter.
The upper 1% are NOT paying enough in taxes. 3/4 of the American people agree with that.
Let the filthy rich pay their fair share, and almost all of our budget problems will be solved. Then cut military spending to be in line with REALITY, and the working poor won't have to tighten their belts anymore.
It is patent nonsense to claim that there is a need for abortion to protect the life of the mother in any circumstances. Ireland, where abortion is illegal, has the lowest maternal mortality rate in the world.
@TheSciencefiend all the women come to Liverpool to have their abortions, because Ireland is run by retarded fuckwits, called catholics and if you thing childbirth cannot kill a woman/child, you are a knobhead.
@Skaramoosh5 It is true, women do travel to the UK for abortions. Around 12 women per day do this and although it is very difficult to get numbers for their reasons it is believed that almost all do so for social and not health reasons. Abortion is not health care. I agree that childbirth can kill a woman, that is why Irish medical practice concentrates on the health of the mother and the baby. Please note that this is not a only Catholic thing. It is a question of general morality.
@TheSciencefiend If a woman in Ireland was pregnant and the doctors said, if she gives birth, she will die, is she then allowed to have an abortion in Ireland or would she still have to come to liverpool.??? forcing your morals onto other people, I will never believe that is right.!!!
@Skaramoosh5 Let's say someone comes up to you and pulls a gun to your head. I have the ability to stop him. But it's the gunman's choice to pull the trigger. Not mine. For me to stop him would be for me to force my morals on him. So then tell me, is it wrong for me to attempt to save your life? By your logic, no, it isn't.
@Skaramoosh5 What if it was legal? Laws are based on popular vote, not morality. In Germany around 1943, it was legal to kill jews, homosexuals, the mentally unstable, those with ADD etc. Legality is irrelevant in this debate.
But for the argument's sake, let's say you're a Jew, you have ADD and are gay. A Nazi has his gun on you. I have the ability to stop him. But I would be imposing on his choice to pull the trigger. Should I stop him?
@SuburbiaSurvivor It's entirely up to you, if you want to stop him, stop him, if not, then don't. I will always decide what I do with my body, whether it's legal or not. I will never give birth and if they make it, that I would be forced to, I would simply kill myself. You give examples, that effect other people, i will only be doing something with my body, no one else's.
@Skaramoosh5 That is false. You will not be doing something simply with "your body" because you're not just affecting "your body". You'll be doing something with someone else's body, your child's. You'll be killing another human being in the name of convenience. This is completely wrong. And since you just admitted that I can try and stop the murderer, then I have a right to protest and pass laws that illegalize abortion.
@SuburbiaSurvivor As long as the fetus is inside my body then It belongs to me and therefor i will decide what to do with it. I wont be killing anything, i will be having an abortion. It wont be convenience, I don't ever want to give birth and be a mother. I'm not a murderer, so you have no right over my body as my actions does not involve another living human. You can ban abortion, I'll just do it myself, makes no difference to me. No other human will ever own me.!!!
@Skaramoosh5 "I won't be killing anything, I will be having an abortion."
The phrase "I won't be killing anything" is equivalent to the phrase "I will be killing nothing". However, this is completely false, as you WILL be killing something because you will be killing a developing human being. There's no getting around that. Either you accept it or you don't.
@Skaramoosh5 "It wont be convenience, I don't ever want to give birth and be a mother."
You just contradicted yourself. You say you don't want to ever be a mother. Therefore, if you get pregnant and have a abortion it will be a convenience for you. Because that way you won't have to be a mother.
@SuburbiaSurvivor Me not wanting to be a mother is not out of convenience, it's because my body tells me, (since the age of 10) that I'm not going to be a mother. I just have a different take on the word convenience that you do.
@Skaramoosh5 "I'm not a murderer, so you have no right over my body as my actions does not involve another living human"
If it's not a living human, then what is it? A duck? Or a naked mole rat that somehow has the DNA of a human and is developing into a human adult? Please tell me how your statement is in anyway logical or scientific.
@SuburbiaSurvivor It gets it's oxygen from me, it cannot survive without me, it is not independent of me. As I am the one who is giving it these things, While it dwells in my womb. I decide what happens.
@Skaramoosh5 "It gets it's oxygen from me, it cannot survive without me, it is not independent of me."
Infants aren't independent either. They rely on their mothers for milk and attention. So by your logic I guess it's okay for a mother to kill her infant child?
@Skaramoosh5 The medical advances for expectant mothers have been tremendous in the past number of years and if a pregnant mother in Ireland needs any treatment whatsoever in order to protect her life she will get it, even if this threatens the life of her unborn child. This is perfectly ethical and acceptable. Abortion however which deliberately targets the unborn baby and kills it, is not. In natural law the unborn have a right to life.
@TheSciencefiend Giving birth, will be the most dangerous thing a woman can do with her body. I believe the woman has the right to decide what she does with her womb, whether or not it carries a baby. Some abortions are ok but some are not. The woman is not allowed to decide, she is forced to have another human decide for her.!!!! The fetus only survives because of the umbilical cord which is attached to the woman. the unborn have no rights, until they are born.
@Skaramoosh5 "Giving birth, will be the most dangerous thing a woman can do with her body"
90% of maternal deaths take place in developing countries where they don't have access to modern medicine. Which means that your statement is only true if you live somewhere like Africa.
There are far worse things you can do with your body. Such as take drugs, or risk your life going rock climbing. Childbirth is painful, but no longer very dangerous.
@SuburbiaSurvivor In England women dying from childbirth has increased in the last 5 years. It is still very dangerous. the fact that men had to invent drugs to give to a woman so she could cope with childbirth, says to me It's very dangerous and very painful.!!!
@SuburbiaSurvivor No. it's increased. Your comparing coughing and sneezing and hiccuping to childbirth, come on, really.!!!! If someone else controls my womb, does that mean I get to control someones testicles, and decide whether or not, they become a father.!!!!! Oh the fun i would have with that. :)
@Skaramoosh5 Coughing and Sneezing and Childbirth are all natural bodily functions. If you sneeze wrong, you could rupture your eardrums, break your back, and even die. If you give birth, there could be complications in which you hemorrhage and die. Sure, it's dangerous. But so are alot of things.
And you are the one who chooses to have sex. Not us. When you create a human life, you forfeit your right to not be a mother. Because you choose to partake in an act which makes you a mother.
@SuburbiaSurvivor So when My body becomes pregnant, i become an non entity, and loose all my human rights. Really.!!!! I partake in an act that gives myself and my partner pleasure in each others bodies, and I use sex as a way of showing my partner, that I love him. I don't use sex to breed. No, I will not stop having sex. if childbirth is so natural, why is it so traumatic.
@TheSciencefiend I am sure you realise that the human being is inside a female, therefor she comes first as she has already been born and it is the female who will decide (as she owns her body) if she wants to become a mother or not, if it's safe to become a mother and what circumstances made the mother pregnant. I put the mother before the fetus every time.
@Skaramoosh5 I hear your reasoning and understand even though I disagree entirely with your view point. Why must there be a choice between the mother and the baby? Pro abortion groups readily admit that the primary reason for abortion is convenience. This is hardly a good reason to take a human life. Abortion hijacks the vocations of the mother and medicine. It takes ordinary pregnant mothers and makes them accomplices in murder. When human life is thus cheapened, we all lose.
@TheSciencefiend You see, convenience would not be my reason. For me, abortion is there for women who do everything they can not to get pregnant. If a woman wants an abortion, she must always be allowed to have one, for whatever reason, but if they haven't used birth control, It fucks me off as well. We cannot force women to give up the right to own her body, no matter what she does with it. Those mothers who abuse or kill their kids, does the law say they have to be sterilized.!!!!!
@Skaramoosh5 I wouldn't argue against the idea that a woman can do as she wishes with her own body ---- as long as no one else gets hurt and that is where the problem lies. What about the body of the life developing within her? Does he or she have no value? Is ending it's life and flushing the remains down the garbage chute morally right? There is no humanity to be found in actions such as this. As for mothers who abuse or kill their children, the law says they should be put in prison.
@TheSciencefiend How are going to say to me, if i'm pregnant (because the condom would have split) You have to give birth, what do you think, seriously, I'm going to do.?? Do you think, I'm just going to say ok then, I'll give birth. Not ever, ever going to happen. You cannot take away the woman's human rights just because she is pregnant. Let's say, i take a fancy to you, I want your baby, you don't want to be a father, but I want your sperm, who decides if you become a father or not, YOU.!!!
@Skaramoosh5 Hello again. Firstly there is not now nor ever has been a 'human right' to abortion in either national or international human rights legislation. It seems to me that to terminate the human life within you simply because the condom split is callous in the extreme. In addition to our freedoms comes responsibility which are two sides of the same coin.
@TheSciencefiend "So when My body becomes pregnant, i become an non entity, and loose all my human rights"
Not what I said in the slightest. Try rereading my arguments, then post a response.
No, sex can result in babies. You know this. You're not an idiot. Therefore you willfully partake in an act that creates another human being. Therefore you willfully allow your body to become the vessel of another human being. You have no right to kill innocent life.
@MellowMink I'd say that as sad as that is, two wrongs don't make a right. There are various cases of women who aborted their rapist's baby in which they healed from the rape experience but never healed from the abortion experience. I think it goes with the idea that it is easier to forgive someone else then it is to forgive yourself.
@TheSciencefiend Using the word pro-abortion is inaccurate and immature. Should I call you anti-choice then since that's a different version of the pro-life term? Nobody likes or gets excited by abortion, but they acknowledge that some women use it as a last resort after careful consideration in response to health problems and more rarely, with rape and incest. Pro-choice is that you believe a woman should have the legal right to control her body, not that you enjoy abortion.
@MellowMink It was a joke ass. Plus who are you to say what a woman is allowed to do with her body. Would I get an abortion? probably not. Does my personal ideology or belief constitute as the opinion of another? No. So who is anyone to tell what someone can or can't do with their body. Plus I stand by the supreme court of the United States. Roe v. Wade. I think it is just as immoral to force someone else to follow what you think is right or wrong. If they want an abortion then let them.
@JDMURDERERS I didn't say I was against abortion. I implied I was pro-choice and that I believe a woman should have the decision to choose. I was saying that people shouldn't assume pro-choice means the same as pro-abortion, and that woman spend a lot of time deciding on having one. A woman should be able to control her own body. I agree with you that women should be allowed to have an abortion.
@MellowMink ironically "PRO-CHOICE" people never consider that the baby wouldn't CHOOSE death...the BABY is a separate entity. the BABY has it's OWN DNA for crying out loud. The mother CHOSE to have SEX and if she gets pregnant, she is RESPONSIBLE for the consequenses of her actions. The poor baby didn't get to choose which mommy would LET it live...
Wel, "my friend" why does a baby have to be punished for the sins of its father? In the case of rape it is quite understandable that the mother is upset on two counts, but she does have a choice. Give the child to another loving family or keep it...i'd recommend (and i do actually) keeping the baby. What better healing than a new life in your arms depending on you for everything? Punish the rapist. Don't cause the victim any more pain by killing her baby too.
@prolifeprincess I'd like to believe in an ideal world where the victim would be in a position to raise a child, both financially and emotionally but in many cases it's not possible. I am not saying to everyone who has an unplanned pregnancy to go out and get an abortion, i myself was unplanned. What i'm saying is that a woman should have the choice to decide what to do with her own body. Abortion is limited to below 24weeks, at this point the baby is not a conscious being
@coreycunninghamkarl If consciousness defined our humanity then every one who is asleep or who is under an anaesthetic is not human and therefore may be killed with impunity. Abortion terminates a human life. Even some of those who actually carry out abortions have become so arrogant about this that they freely admit it.
@coreycunninghamkarl So much for women having control of their own bodies. Far from having any rights in this case the majority of women are victims, as are their babies. The only 'winner' in this case are the abortionists such the FPA who annually are subsidised by the US government to the tune of around 300 million dollars. These are the ones who talk up a storm about women's rights but who care only about the money. They have you all conned.
@TheSciencefiend I am simply putting a question to you. As I have already said, i don't encourage abortion, rather i encourage woman's rights. You are a moron if you honestly believe what you just said. Anyway, who won the election? Obama, the people have spoken. You are in the uneducated minority!
@coreycunninghamkarl There is no national or international treaty on human rights that includes abortion. It is against the natural law and is morally wrong. You are the one who described consciousness as defining humanity. It stands to reason therefore that those who are unconscious are not human. Perhaps you need to be a bit more thoughtful when you take it upon yourself to define a human life. Me uneducated? Hardly. Bachelors degree in Science and a Phd in Quantum Physics.
@prolifeprincess and such is not aware of his/ her life. I reiterate, i am not encouraging abortion, it should be the very last choice of any woman but they should have the freedom to consider that option, i can guarantee 99% of women who have had abortions did not do so lighlty, it is a huge decision and one that is well thought out before proceeding with
@coreycunninghamkarl So 99% of women think deeply before they have an abortion? I doubt it. in a recent study by VM Rue et al 'Induced abortion and traumatic stress' it was reported that 64% of women were coerced by their partners to have an abortion and refusal to do so often resulted in violence or even murder. A further study by Horton and Cheng ' Enhanced surveillance for pregnancy associated mortality' indicated that murder is the leading cause of death for pregnant mothers in the US.
@TheSciencefiend Ok, and what benefit to these women that receive physical and mental coercion to get abortion's will they get by being unable to choose to get the abortion?
@coreycunninghamkarl Yes but what about the body she carries in her womb? It is a separate human life and as such is deserving of respect, not to be destroyed and discarded as garbage.
@TheSciencefiend It is not a seperate human life until a certain stage, it's a living thing but it has not got a developed mind or body. Are you telling me you've never picked a flower or squashed a spider, why isn't that murder?
@coreycunninghamkarl Let me give you a scientific fact. In all of creation when 23 chromosomes of the mother combine with 23 chromosomes of the father a unique biological entity is formed. In humans this entity is a human being. It already has a gender and is fully programmed and equipped to develop and grow until death. All he or she needs is nutrition and a warm place to grow. It is not a potential human being, it is a human being with potential. Embryologists the world over agree on this
@TheSciencefiend Listen to me, i do not encourage abortions. I encourage the mother's choice. At the end of the day certain circumstances do not lend themselves to the upbringing of an unwanted child. Would you rather this unfeeling, unthinking being be prevented or a thinking, feeling human baby being neglected, starving, and unloved. Have you seen trainspotting? That is the alternative in many cases where a woman could not bring up a child but cannot consider abortion.
@coreycunninghamkarl Question: Should we kill human beings based on the assumption that they might suffer?
If the answer is yes, then who decides how much suffering a person must possibly experience before they can be killed? How could it not be assumed that perhaps YOU might suffer in your future, and then how would you be able to defend against someone killing you?
@coreycunninghamkarl There are always alternatives to abortion and help is available from a number of groups. Also there are many many childless couples crying out for the opportunity to adopt. Abortion does not solve anything. Are you aware of recent studies which link abortion to mental health problems and increased risk of cancer to the mother. Abortion just adds to women's difficulties. Trainspotting? I have no idea what this is.
@prolifeprincess Well if you're gonna use that logic, you could say that ironically the pro-life position doesn't consider the life of the mother in comparison to that of the fetus/embryo and that it's anti-choice for the mother. The mother didn't choose to have sex in the case of rape, and the fetus doesn't develop memory for at least two months. Should she not be allowed to have an abortion if it is shortly after rape (before the fetus has developed conciousness)?
@SuburbiaSurvivor If you are talking about the maternal mortality rate in Ireland then yes. Ireland has the lowest on the planet. Our government is under pressure from the EU to legalise abortion and the only response our mealy mouthed EU politicians can make is to say 'we'll look into it' instead of shouting our great record in maternal care from the rooftops.
@TheSciencefiend no, YOUR statement is nonsense. of course there are still cases in which the mother's health and life is in danger if she continues with the pregnancy. it's almost as if you're trying to say that ireland's low maternal mortality rate is a result of abortion being illegal.
@crlnewlls I'm not sure which statement you are referring to but you appear to be suggesting that there are cases where an abortion may be required to save the life of an expectant mother. Now that IS utter nonsense. Abortion is not a treatment for any known medical condition. I'm not suggesting that that Ireland's low mortality rate is because abortion is illegal but it certainly puts paid to the pro abortion argument that it should be made legal to improve reproductive health in Ireland.
@TheSciencefiend mccain is right that democrats say "health of the mother" and stretch that to where it can just mean convenience. but OF COURSE there are cases that the woman will die if she has the baby. i know someone who was given a 10% chance of survival for both her and the baby if she went through with the pregnancy. she went through with it anyway and neither one of them made it. & what about young girls whose bodies aren't developed enough yet to carry and give birth? do some research.
@crlnewlls I'll say it again. Abortion is not health care and is not a treatment for any known medical condition. I don't know the case you are referring to so I cannot comment on it. As for young girls, this is a very sad situation and of course very young girls have conceived and given birth but is not at all desirable. I will say however that hard cases make bad law and in spite of original limitations, abortion on demand soon became the norm resulting in over 50 million worldwide annually
Why people care about other people life's decision like abortion? How is that changing their life? And if someone do it, then they'll go to hell (for religious people) and you won't have to worry about it. And phetus are not thinking at all, it's better to abort your baby inside you while it's not conscient than letting him die from starvation.
@bengacris because it doesn't JUST affect that person, it effects everyone. Abortion is economic suicide, it kills our future soldiers, it threatens our culture, it undermines life which leads to things like genocides and Holocausts (getting rid of old people, retarded people, blacks, which BTW is how planned parenthood started, to get rid of minorities and retards... etc), never mind it comes out of our taxes, so you actually have to pay for someone elses choice! How does it NOT affect us?
@TheTerrorUforgot you are comparing apples to oranges, in those countries they don't have social security that needs to be paid into by the following generation, never mind you can't even call it their country as most of the stuff is owned by foreigners like in Zambia where all the money goes to China. It will effect us like say Muslims, who don't abort and have lots of kids they can change the political shift (and already have in some places) to the point of shairia law, where women are nothing
@Agape4TheirSakes Muslim countries aren't very well off. They would also be third-world hell holes if not for oil. A high birthrate shows an uneducated populace who still use children for labor to offset the cost of raising them, who have no concept of birth control ( or are puppets of the Pope). No country has overgrown and fallen to immigrants yet, so you have no examples to stand on , sir. It's just hypothetical conjecture or outright lies (genocide BS)
@bengacris that is why Canada will not live long...none of those aborted babies are paying into our system...the generation after the baby boomers won't be able to retire, our economy will dwindle (except by some miracle like a gold mine find) and our culture will be handed over to whoever is having the kids, which would be the immigrants, mainly Muslims...yeah, we will eventually be under sharia law which puts down women...yippee...no offence intended to Muslims like Mahfooz Kanwar
Hey stupid conservetives. Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion
GRITTYSTACKZ 2 days ago
BILL COSBY 2012! FREE PUDDING FOR EVERYONE
SwagJuiceBWC 4 days ago
GO SPIDERPIG 2012!
MrTruthUnleashed 1 week ago 2
The VC brainwashed McCain.. INTO MAKING DELICIOUS JUICES!!!!
TylerTheT 2 weeks ago
LOL! McCAIN IS A PUSSY! lolz
negativefuckhead 2 weeks ago
OBAMA 2012 !!!!
mitchthemich 3 weeks ago
Look how the uncommitted Ohio voters reacted when McCain opened his mouth.
deutschland08fn 3 weeks ago
God I'm glad he wasn't elected. I hate his cocky smile he does whenever Obama is talking.
walrusgh 1 month ago
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Obama is great. Now Obama care will give us all RFID chips isn't that great. We all will be tracked by Satellite and monitors at every store. I googled this and it becomes mandatory 3 years after full enactment of Obama care. So full enactment start in 2014. We all love Obama so much we should run to the doctors office and get the RFID chip, right.
If this scares the hell out of you then get to the primaries and support RON PAUL to stop the insanity.
RON PAUL FOR A REAL CHANGE
Beeman56258 1 month ago
How many babies (and the poor health of the mothers) did McCain TERMINATE when he dropped a massive amount of bombs on North Vietnam you baby killer!
narlycat 1 month ago
@narlycat
How many babies did Obama kill for allowing abortion. Same fucking thing.
Peezster 1 month ago
Comment removed
ComicBookBoy1082 1 month ago
2012 2012
zimThuet 1 month ago
I dont think anyone is "pro-abortion", just the right to chose for yourself.
CrogBear 1 month ago
@CrogBear oh please, no concsious decision on ANYTHING is done without choice. So calling it pro-choice is redundent. And if no one was pro-abortion, then there wouldnt be abortions in the first place.
eminem4436 1 month ago
@eminem4436 Wow, what you just said literally made no sense. Can make a case for your point, lose the tude and then get back to me? kthnx
CrogBear 1 month ago
@CrogBear You said no one believes in abortion, if that were the case, there would be no abortions. Is that simple enough for you?
eminem4436 1 month ago
@eminem4436 First of all, I never said that, stop putting words in my mouth and you still don't make sense. Take a chill pill. I'm guessing you don't want freedom for people to choose what they do with a couple of cells that are not even conscious. I have my beliefs, and I'm not forcing them on anyone. There's this thing called freedom of speech. All I said is that no one is pro-abortion. As in, no one is going to get pregnant just for the sole purpose of aborting it. Calm. Down.
CrogBear 1 month ago
@CrogBear Wait, are you saying that what is inside a woman is not human? Do you have evidence of that? There is not doubt what inside a woman is alive, meaning it's a life. And because the woman can only give birth to a human, that makes it a human life.
eminem4436 1 month ago
@eminem4436 Sure it's organic, but it doesn't have any measured brain activity untill the 10th week of pregnancy, which is where we would consider it cognitive. Isn't the ability to think what seperates us from the animals? Otherwise you should have laws to prevent animal or plant life killings :)
Entertekken 3 weeks ago
@Entertekken Believe it or not, you can actually live WITHOUT the majority of yout brain. Id put a link down but Youtube doesnt let you do that so youll have to look it up yourself. And what about this, if we agree that we dont truly know when a human life begins, dont you think its extreamly ruthless to allow abortions without that key piece of information?
eminem4436 3 weeks ago
@eminem4436 No, I'm sticking to the brain activity thing :) I don't believe in souls, so from a both scientific and philosophical viewpoint, I'd say that before the 10th week, go ahead and slice it out. I'm not saying it couldn't grow into an amazing human being, but generally, people who have abortions aren't gonna give their babies the best chances in life. And you can maybe live without parts of your brain, but would you really want to? I'm sure some function would be missing :)
Entertekken 3 weeks ago
@Entertekken Actually both scientific and philosophical viewpoints dont know either, so it IS reckless. And, why does the brain make any difference? You cant live AT ALL without a heart, so why not start there?
eminem4436 3 weeks ago
@eminem4436 Well, then we're back to the animals. The heart only pumps blood around the body. Admittedly, that's a pretty important function, but it has nothing to do with what makes us human, despite what litterature tells us. It's all in the brain, the collective memory and electric impulses that makes us who we are. And they start at the 10th week. That's why it's the law in my country.
Entertekken 2 weeks ago
@Entertekken Well then, here's a question for you. When EXACTLY do you think life begins? I mean, when during pregnancy. More specifically, is it alive the moment the brain starts forming at 10 weeks in?
eminem4436 2 weeks ago
@eminem4436 No, life begins of course at the very moment of conception. So, yes it's alive when the brain starts working. Then you'll say "Then how can you justify taking a human life?" And I respond: Abortion is not okay in all situations, but if the mother's health is in danger, if it's a rapechild, if it prevents infanticide, if it prevents severely malformed babies from suffering and if it stops a too young girl from ruining her life, I say yes. It should be an option.
Entertekken 2 weeks ago
@Entertekken Fine, but allowing abortion only for rape, health of the mother, etc., would be MUCH better then the system we have now.
eminem4436 2 weeks ago
@eminem4436 You from the US? What are your laws on abortion exactly?
Entertekken 2 weeks ago
@Entertekken Im in Canada, and currently there is no law on abortion, although idk of any doctors that will abort a child after three months, but if they did, that would be fine.
eminem4436 2 weeks ago
@eminem4436 I just read up on your history on wiki :) It's pretty cool how one doctor changed the whole system into free abortion. Though I would probably be against abortion if the mother was three months in :)
Entertekken 2 weeks ago
@Entertekken Although doctor M gets credit for bring this to the supreme court, it wasnt really him that changed the law. And I could go in a big speech about how its even possible, but i dont have many characters left, so I'll leave it at that.
eminem4436 2 weeks ago
@Entertekken Like George Carlin said : “Not every ejaculation deserves a name!”
idiosyncrazy1980 3 weeks ago
@CrogBear so if there ever was a way to find out that a child is predisposed to be gay and people 'chose for themselves' to abort the child on that basis, you'd still stick by your 'choice' position?
DREwestcoast 1 month ago
@DREwestcoast Well there isn't a way to tell, so that's not even a problem for now. If there was, then parents should have the decision to do what they want, however I would be extremely against anyone aborting a child on that basis. I'm just saying it depends on the circumstances. Maybe a 14 year old girl was raped and lives in poverty and doesn't want her child to wonder why he/she gave him/her away. Not everything is black and white like you think.
CrogBear 1 month ago
@CrogBear What's your take on down syndrome abortions? as for your example you seriously think that the child would rather never live than having to deal with being adopted? please, tell me you don't hold this view..
DREwestcoast 1 month ago
YOUR MAMA 2012
blackdeckbox 1 month ago
STALIN 2012
Amish234 1 month ago
ANTI-FAT 2012
SeventhSun 1 month ago
NO HOMO 2012
E139486 1 month ago
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*°º·¤.¸.`*°º·¤.¸.¤·º°´¸.¤·º¤·°´
`*°º·¤.¸((( OBAMA 2012 )))¸.¤·º°´
¤·º°¸.¤·º°´.¤·º°`°º·¤.¸`°º·¤.¸
HE'S FIGHTING FOR US!!
He took out DADT
Got us BIN LADEN
Got out TROOPS BACK
Let's keep the ONE that's fighting for OUR RIGHTS
NuLaifMusic 1 month ago
KIM JONG-IL 2012
haz464 1 month ago 47
@haz464 oh shit this comment is relevant now
macarion 1 month ago
@macarion ;-; Dear Leader will never be elected now
haz464 1 month ago
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@haz464 KIM JONG-IL 2012 he was murdered!!
ScoutWanderer 3 weeks ago
@haz464 loooololloolollol
TheWez90 6 days ago
RON PAUL 2012
palunga09 1 month ago
I guess the mother not dying is an extreme position. what the fuck mccain?
dnanalahcnap 2 months ago 57
@dnanalahcnap
well he's batshit, you can't blame him lol. he lost his mind when he supported bush in 04' despite bush gucking him over in 00'.
TeslaDRay 1 month ago 2
@dnanalahcnap How is giving birth killing the mother. I assume that you are eight years old, and are yet the go through sexual education, but there are other ways for a mother to give birth. A c-section for example.
ImPuLSeShAdoWz 1 week ago
@dnanalahcnap so kill the innocent life then?
Shelisa4 5 days ago
the heart starts beating 21 days after conseption, no life present before that.
maestro4110 2 months ago
Abortion is up to the person. PERIOD..... No-one elses business.
lovebigboobs29 2 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 So it is unfortunate that the person inside has no choice whether or not he/she lives or dies. If an abortion is needed to spare the life of the mother, that's understandable. Seems like most of this pro abortion crap is just party loyalty. A democrat says it's ok, so all the super loyal supporters just go with it. Not like every female is running around having an abortion all the time. The way they talk about it, you'd think that was the case
cfr53 2 months ago
@cfr53 They have to get an abortion before the fetus is even conscience nor is it even a person when its aborted. People have the right to choose if they want to have an abortion. How is it anyone elses business? Its not. I never said I was a democrat. The current president is an idiot and is a democrat so no I am not going for just what a party says. Their opinions dont influence mine.
lovebigboobs29 2 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 You know the funny part is that I agree with you for the most part. I'm not against laws allowing early abortion, it's nobody's business what people choose to do. It's only my opinion that abortion is immoral. But the thing that does bother me the most about it (among other issues) is that there is so much of this party loyalty crap going on. Another example is pro amnesty for illegals, democrats will support it because "their guy" or "their team" does.
cfr53 2 months ago
@cfr53 Yeah I am not for amnesty for illegals. We need to do immigration reform for real and send all of them back where they came from. If you're not a citizen ya shouldn't be allowed to live here.
lovebigboobs29 2 months ago
i have made a question that WILL determine. here it goes- if there is a fire and you have the choice between saving a 4 year old girl or a test tube filled with a thousand JUST fertilized eggs, which one would you choose. why?
also mind you, you guys tend to talk about rights, right? then is it ok to chop off some of the kids penis(circumcise) before he can say he wants just that? you kinda just do it any way right?
also, if the brain and heart function then its living, too late to abort.
muaythaijunky 2 months ago
Aborted babies had heartbeats before they were murdered.
cfr53 2 months ago
@cfr53 Did you hear nothing Obama said? He'll legalize early abortion while the baby is still as high of a life form as an ant but illegalize late term abortion.
planetary109 2 months ago 5
@planetary109 I said nothing about Obama. But since you mention it, how early exactly is an early term abortion?
cfr53 2 months ago
@cfr53 Ask him. I don't know the specific details.
planetary109 2 months ago
@planetary109 Late term is generally 4 to 5 months. A fetus has a heartbeat as early as 3 weeks, that was my only point. I don't agree with Obama on many things, but in the case of this video I agree with "as long as there is an exception for the mother's health", just my opinion.
cfr53 2 months ago
@cfr53 so?
lovebigboobs29 2 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 Lol im going to argue abortion with a guy named "lovebigboobs"
Obviously a guy that digs sluts is going to be pro abortion cause he'd prefer to shirk the responsibility right....
I believe that the unborn is a life. If I didnt think a life was being ended I wouldnt care, but it is a life.
You argue the babys stage of development or the inability to care for itself,make it not important. Regardless I believe the human life that cant speak for themselves should be protected.
Jamespot24 2 months ago
@Jamespot24 Unborn isn't a life. Hate to break it to ya but it isn't. Besides its still none of your business if someone gets an abortion. Its onlt the business of the person. Why not get a life and worry about yourself and not what others do. No matter what you think the female will still get an abortion if she wants. Its called freedom of choice. I support Pro-choice always will!
lovebigboobs29 2 months ago
@lovebigboobs29 You are a sheep if you think that after 3-4 months of development its not a life. Premature births have survived after just 5 months in the womb!!!
And yes I do not care if a woman does birth control, but if she ends a life I do care.
Jamespot24 2 months ago
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@Jamespot24 You can care all you like but the woman will not give a damn what you think and will still get the abortion. Its none of anyones business but the person getting an abortion.
lovebigboobs29 2 months ago
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Ron Paul 2012
IslamISofTheDevil666 2 months ago
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Ron Paul 2012
IslamISofTheDevil666 2 months ago
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Ron Paul 2012
IslamISofTheDevil666 2 months ago
I"m sorry but does John McCain remind anyone else of a teddy bear? Idk why but for me he does hahaha :D
laliisx 2 months ago
Its alright Its alright, its not a human life until its born.
JDMURDERERS 2 months ago
@JDMURDERERS Embryologists the world over agree that it is a complete human life from the moment of conception. When 23 chromosomes of the father join with 23 chromosomes of the mother a new life is formed where none existed before. It has a gender and is fully and uniquely programmed and equipped to grow, develop and change until death. All he or she needs is nutrition and a warm place to grow. Not one single embryology text book on earth denies this. Abortion ends a human life.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
obama is full of dung. obama will say anything he thinks voters want to hear even if he is totally against it. Everything out of his mouth is a phoney campaign proimise or a pander. I don't trust him anymore then bernie maddoff.
natashiapelouski 2 months ago
@TizianoCrudeliNo1Fan europe would agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that their working population is shrinking and their elderly population is large. What does that mean? Higher retirement age or end taking care of the elderly.
redarrowhead2 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend - that is completely incorrect:
"Abortion in Ireland is illegal unless the pregnancy is in threat of endangering the life of the woman (as differential to her health) through continuance of the pregnancy."
Next time try facts.
stevece80 2 months ago
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@stevece80 "Abortion in Ireland is illegal unless the pregnancy is in threat of endangering the life of the woman (as differential to her health) through continuance of the pregnancy."
Is completely true.
Go research it for yourself.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@stevece80 Abortion in Ireland is ILLEGAL. That is a FACT. If there is a danger to the life of the mother she will get whatever treatment she requires to protect her life even if this poses a threat to the life of her unborn child. This is perfectly ethical, legal and acceptable. This is not abortion. Abortion deliberatly targets the unborn child for death. This is illegal in Ireland. It is also an affront to the natural law and completely immoral.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
yaa obama
if you cant give abortions then you fuckin raised the population and gotta spend money on your son
somany5 2 months ago
Barack Obama is the antichrist.
muel0341 2 months ago
PENIS.
lukeseti 2 months ago
It's terrible how rape happens, but two wrongs don't make a right, and in Ireland, where health care is free and extremely safe, and morally right, maternal life is extremely rare; abortion is only neccessary when the women's life is in danger, but that's not abortion, that's SAVING the women's life.
LeftHandCookie 2 months ago
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@avaiae Isn't that the Republican's favorite gripe? Minimum wage kills jobs?
Get off it! When someone says high, you say low. You disgree to gisagree. You smell up every room you enter.
The upper 1% are NOT paying enough in taxes. 3/4 of the American people agree with that.
Let the filthy rich pay their fair share, and almost all of our budget problems will be solved. Then cut military spending to be in line with REALITY, and the working poor won't have to tighten their belts anymore.
zerogullibility 2 months ago
It is patent nonsense to claim that there is a need for abortion to protect the life of the mother in any circumstances. Ireland, where abortion is illegal, has the lowest maternal mortality rate in the world.
TheSciencefiend 3 months ago 9
@TheSciencefiend I bet they have funding for foster care, day care, welfare for single mothers, etc.
dancer8164 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend all the women come to Liverpool to have their abortions, because Ireland is run by retarded fuckwits, called catholics and if you thing childbirth cannot kill a woman/child, you are a knobhead.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 It is true, women do travel to the UK for abortions. Around 12 women per day do this and although it is very difficult to get numbers for their reasons it is believed that almost all do so for social and not health reasons. Abortion is not health care. I agree that childbirth can kill a woman, that is why Irish medical practice concentrates on the health of the mother and the baby. Please note that this is not a only Catholic thing. It is a question of general morality.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend If a woman in Ireland was pregnant and the doctors said, if she gives birth, she will die, is she then allowed to have an abortion in Ireland or would she still have to come to liverpool.??? forcing your morals onto other people, I will never believe that is right.!!!
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 Let's say someone comes up to you and pulls a gun to your head. I have the ability to stop him. But it's the gunman's choice to pull the trigger. Not mine. For me to stop him would be for me to force my morals on him. So then tell me, is it wrong for me to attempt to save your life? By your logic, no, it isn't.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor But the gunman is breaking the law, is he not, so therefor he loses all his rights as a human.!!!!
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 What if it was legal? Laws are based on popular vote, not morality. In Germany around 1943, it was legal to kill jews, homosexuals, the mentally unstable, those with ADD etc. Legality is irrelevant in this debate.
But for the argument's sake, let's say you're a Jew, you have ADD and are gay. A Nazi has his gun on you. I have the ability to stop him. But I would be imposing on his choice to pull the trigger. Should I stop him?
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor It's entirely up to you, if you want to stop him, stop him, if not, then don't. I will always decide what I do with my body, whether it's legal or not. I will never give birth and if they make it, that I would be forced to, I would simply kill myself. You give examples, that effect other people, i will only be doing something with my body, no one else's.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 That is false. You will not be doing something simply with "your body" because you're not just affecting "your body". You'll be doing something with someone else's body, your child's. You'll be killing another human being in the name of convenience. This is completely wrong. And since you just admitted that I can try and stop the murderer, then I have a right to protest and pass laws that illegalize abortion.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor As long as the fetus is inside my body then It belongs to me and therefor i will decide what to do with it. I wont be killing anything, i will be having an abortion. It wont be convenience, I don't ever want to give birth and be a mother. I'm not a murderer, so you have no right over my body as my actions does not involve another living human. You can ban abortion, I'll just do it myself, makes no difference to me. No other human will ever own me.!!!
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
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@Skaramoosh5 "As long as the fetus is inside my body then It belongs to me and therefor i will decide what to do with it".
Mothers do own their children, but mother's aren't allowed to kill their children. It's illegal. Why? Because it's wrong.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 "I won't be killing anything, I will be having an abortion."
The phrase "I won't be killing anything" is equivalent to the phrase "I will be killing nothing". However, this is completely false, as you WILL be killing something because you will be killing a developing human being. There's no getting around that. Either you accept it or you don't.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor You can use the word kill or murder, how many times as you want, still wont make it any more true.!!!
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
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@Skaramoosh5 "You can use the word kill or murder, how many times as you want, still wont make it any more true.!!!"
Kill: "To cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing)" Synonyms: slay - murder - destroy - slaughter - assassinate.
You were saying?
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 "It wont be convenience, I don't ever want to give birth and be a mother."
You just contradicted yourself. You say you don't want to ever be a mother. Therefore, if you get pregnant and have a abortion it will be a convenience for you. Because that way you won't have to be a mother.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor Me not wanting to be a mother is not out of convenience, it's because my body tells me, (since the age of 10) that I'm not going to be a mother. I just have a different take on the word convenience that you do.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 "Me not wanting to be a mother is not out of convenience"
No, it's not. But you killing your child so you won't have to be a mother is something done out of convenience.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor No, I wont be killing anything. Do i get your testicles.???? :)
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
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@Skaramoosh5 "No, I wont be killing anything. Do i get your testicles"
You will be destroying a living thing (a fetus is living, unless you failed biology and never learned that), therefore you are killing something.
And no.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor just ignore her, she ruins youtube and is a stupid crackhead
TheBen67 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 "I'm not a murderer, so you have no right over my body as my actions does not involve another living human"
If it's not a living human, then what is it? A duck? Or a naked mole rat that somehow has the DNA of a human and is developing into a human adult? Please tell me how your statement is in anyway logical or scientific.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor It gets it's oxygen from me, it cannot survive without me, it is not independent of me. As I am the one who is giving it these things, While it dwells in my womb. I decide what happens.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
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@Skaramoosh5 "It gets it's oxygen from me, it cannot survive without me, it is not independent of me."
Infants aren't independent either. They rely on their mothers for milk and attention. So by your logic I guess it's okay for a mother to kill her infant child?
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 "You can ban abortion, I'll just do it myself, makes no difference to me. No other human will ever own me!!!"
I'm sorry you'd kill someone just so you wouldn't have to be a mother.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor No, i wouldn't kill anything, I would have an abortion. I would not wait until I had given birth, because that would be murder.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
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@Skaramoosh5 "No, i wouldn't kill anything, I would have an abortion."
Abortions kill fetuses. Unless you don't believe fetuses exist.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 The medical advances for expectant mothers have been tremendous in the past number of years and if a pregnant mother in Ireland needs any treatment whatsoever in order to protect her life she will get it, even if this threatens the life of her unborn child. This is perfectly ethical and acceptable. Abortion however which deliberately targets the unborn baby and kills it, is not. In natural law the unborn have a right to life.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend Giving birth, will be the most dangerous thing a woman can do with her body. I believe the woman has the right to decide what she does with her womb, whether or not it carries a baby. Some abortions are ok but some are not. The woman is not allowed to decide, she is forced to have another human decide for her.!!!! The fetus only survives because of the umbilical cord which is attached to the woman. the unborn have no rights, until they are born.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 "Giving birth, will be the most dangerous thing a woman can do with her body"
90% of maternal deaths take place in developing countries where they don't have access to modern medicine. Which means that your statement is only true if you live somewhere like Africa.
There are far worse things you can do with your body. Such as take drugs, or risk your life going rock climbing. Childbirth is painful, but no longer very dangerous.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor In England women dying from childbirth has increased in the last 5 years. It is still very dangerous. the fact that men had to invent drugs to give to a woman so she could cope with childbirth, says to me It's very dangerous and very painful.!!!
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 It hasn't increased in England, it just simply hasn't decreased because of a lack of medical care for pregnant women.
Sure, it's dangerous. So is coughing and sneezing and hiccuping. All could result in death if a problem occurs. Your point?
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor No. it's increased. Your comparing coughing and sneezing and hiccuping to childbirth, come on, really.!!!! If someone else controls my womb, does that mean I get to control someones testicles, and decide whether or not, they become a father.!!!!! Oh the fun i would have with that. :)
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 Coughing and Sneezing and Childbirth are all natural bodily functions. If you sneeze wrong, you could rupture your eardrums, break your back, and even die. If you give birth, there could be complications in which you hemorrhage and die. Sure, it's dangerous. But so are alot of things.
And you are the one who chooses to have sex. Not us. When you create a human life, you forfeit your right to not be a mother. Because you choose to partake in an act which makes you a mother.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor So when My body becomes pregnant, i become an non entity, and loose all my human rights. Really.!!!! I partake in an act that gives myself and my partner pleasure in each others bodies, and I use sex as a way of showing my partner, that I love him. I don't use sex to breed. No, I will not stop having sex. if childbirth is so natural, why is it so traumatic.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 I am sure you realise that abortion ends the life of a human being. How can this be justified?? It is morally wrong.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend I am sure you realise that the human being is inside a female, therefor she comes first as she has already been born and it is the female who will decide (as she owns her body) if she wants to become a mother or not, if it's safe to become a mother and what circumstances made the mother pregnant. I put the mother before the fetus every time.
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 I hear your reasoning and understand even though I disagree entirely with your view point. Why must there be a choice between the mother and the baby? Pro abortion groups readily admit that the primary reason for abortion is convenience. This is hardly a good reason to take a human life. Abortion hijacks the vocations of the mother and medicine. It takes ordinary pregnant mothers and makes them accomplices in murder. When human life is thus cheapened, we all lose.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend You see, convenience would not be my reason. For me, abortion is there for women who do everything they can not to get pregnant. If a woman wants an abortion, she must always be allowed to have one, for whatever reason, but if they haven't used birth control, It fucks me off as well. We cannot force women to give up the right to own her body, no matter what she does with it. Those mothers who abuse or kill their kids, does the law say they have to be sterilized.!!!!!
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 I wouldn't argue against the idea that a woman can do as she wishes with her own body ---- as long as no one else gets hurt and that is where the problem lies. What about the body of the life developing within her? Does he or she have no value? Is ending it's life and flushing the remains down the garbage chute morally right? There is no humanity to be found in actions such as this. As for mothers who abuse or kill their children, the law says they should be put in prison.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend How are going to say to me, if i'm pregnant (because the condom would have split) You have to give birth, what do you think, seriously, I'm going to do.?? Do you think, I'm just going to say ok then, I'll give birth. Not ever, ever going to happen. You cannot take away the woman's human rights just because she is pregnant. Let's say, i take a fancy to you, I want your baby, you don't want to be a father, but I want your sperm, who decides if you become a father or not, YOU.!!!
Skaramoosh5 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 The only way for you to get the sperm would be for him to consent anyway. Your argument just failed.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@Skaramoosh5 Hello again. Firstly there is not now nor ever has been a 'human right' to abortion in either national or international human rights legislation. It seems to me that to terminate the human life within you simply because the condom split is callous in the extreme. In addition to our freedoms comes responsibility which are two sides of the same coin.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend "So when My body becomes pregnant, i become an non entity, and loose all my human rights"
Not what I said in the slightest. Try rereading my arguments, then post a response.
No, sex can result in babies. You know this. You're not an idiot. Therefore you willfully partake in an act that creates another human being. Therefore you willfully allow your body to become the vessel of another human being. You have no right to kill innocent life.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor I think you are confusing me with some one else. You are not replying to anything I posted.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor And what do you say to that if the sex involves rape or incest?
MellowMink 2 months ago
@MellowMink I'd say that as sad as that is, two wrongs don't make a right. There are various cases of women who aborted their rapist's baby in which they healed from the rape experience but never healed from the abortion experience. I think it goes with the idea that it is easier to forgive someone else then it is to forgive yourself.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend Using the word pro-abortion is inaccurate and immature. Should I call you anti-choice then since that's a different version of the pro-life term? Nobody likes or gets excited by abortion, but they acknowledge that some women use it as a last resort after careful consideration in response to health problems and more rarely, with rape and incest. Pro-choice is that you believe a woman should have the legal right to control her body, not that you enjoy abortion.
MellowMink 2 months ago
@MellowMink It was a joke ass. Plus who are you to say what a woman is allowed to do with her body. Would I get an abortion? probably not. Does my personal ideology or belief constitute as the opinion of another? No. So who is anyone to tell what someone can or can't do with their body. Plus I stand by the supreme court of the United States. Roe v. Wade. I think it is just as immoral to force someone else to follow what you think is right or wrong. If they want an abortion then let them.
JDMURDERERS 2 months ago
@JDMURDERERS I didn't say I was against abortion. I implied I was pro-choice and that I believe a woman should have the decision to choose. I was saying that people shouldn't assume pro-choice means the same as pro-abortion, and that woman spend a lot of time deciding on having one. A woman should be able to control her own body. I agree with you that women should be allowed to have an abortion.
MellowMink 2 months ago
@MellowMink Oh that was meant for TheScienceFiend. My bad.
JDMURDERERS 2 months ago
@JDMURDERERS Ah, no problem. Don't worry about it.
MellowMink 2 months ago
@MellowMink ironically "PRO-CHOICE" people never consider that the baby wouldn't CHOOSE death...the BABY is a separate entity. the BABY has it's OWN DNA for crying out loud. The mother CHOSE to have SEX and if she gets pregnant, she is RESPONSIBLE for the consequenses of her actions. The poor baby didn't get to choose which mommy would LET it live...
prolifeprincess 2 months ago
@prolifeprincess What about Rape my friend..?
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl
Wel, "my friend" why does a baby have to be punished for the sins of its father? In the case of rape it is quite understandable that the mother is upset on two counts, but she does have a choice. Give the child to another loving family or keep it...i'd recommend (and i do actually) keeping the baby. What better healing than a new life in your arms depending on you for everything? Punish the rapist. Don't cause the victim any more pain by killing her baby too.
hows that?
prolifeprincess 2 months ago
@prolifeprincess I'd like to believe in an ideal world where the victim would be in a position to raise a child, both financially and emotionally but in many cases it's not possible. I am not saying to everyone who has an unplanned pregnancy to go out and get an abortion, i myself was unplanned. What i'm saying is that a woman should have the choice to decide what to do with her own body. Abortion is limited to below 24weeks, at this point the baby is not a conscious being
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl If consciousness defined our humanity then every one who is asleep or who is under an anaesthetic is not human and therefore may be killed with impunity. Abortion terminates a human life. Even some of those who actually carry out abortions have become so arrogant about this that they freely admit it.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl So much for women having control of their own bodies. Far from having any rights in this case the majority of women are victims, as are their babies. The only 'winner' in this case are the abortionists such the FPA who annually are subsidised by the US government to the tune of around 300 million dollars. These are the ones who talk up a storm about women's rights but who care only about the money. They have you all conned.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend I am simply putting a question to you. As I have already said, i don't encourage abortion, rather i encourage woman's rights. You are a moron if you honestly believe what you just said. Anyway, who won the election? Obama, the people have spoken. You are in the uneducated minority!
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl There is no national or international treaty on human rights that includes abortion. It is against the natural law and is morally wrong. You are the one who described consciousness as defining humanity. It stands to reason therefore that those who are unconscious are not human. Perhaps you need to be a bit more thoughtful when you take it upon yourself to define a human life. Me uneducated? Hardly. Bachelors degree in Science and a Phd in Quantum Physics.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@prolifeprincess and such is not aware of his/ her life. I reiterate, i am not encouraging abortion, it should be the very last choice of any woman but they should have the freedom to consider that option, i can guarantee 99% of women who have had abortions did not do so lighlty, it is a huge decision and one that is well thought out before proceeding with
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl So 99% of women think deeply before they have an abortion? I doubt it. in a recent study by VM Rue et al 'Induced abortion and traumatic stress' it was reported that 64% of women were coerced by their partners to have an abortion and refusal to do so often resulted in violence or even murder. A further study by Horton and Cheng ' Enhanced surveillance for pregnancy associated mortality' indicated that murder is the leading cause of death for pregnant mothers in the US.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend Ok, and what benefit to these women that receive physical and mental coercion to get abortion's will they get by being unable to choose to get the abortion?
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl They do not benefit in any way whatsoever. That's the point. The only ones who benefit are the abortionists
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend No, you dribbling cur.. The woman benefits from the ability to choose what to do with her own body.
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl Yes but what about the body she carries in her womb? It is a separate human life and as such is deserving of respect, not to be destroyed and discarded as garbage.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend It is not a seperate human life until a certain stage, it's a living thing but it has not got a developed mind or body. Are you telling me you've never picked a flower or squashed a spider, why isn't that murder?
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl Let me give you a scientific fact. In all of creation when 23 chromosomes of the mother combine with 23 chromosomes of the father a unique biological entity is formed. In humans this entity is a human being. It already has a gender and is fully programmed and equipped to develop and grow until death. All he or she needs is nutrition and a warm place to grow. It is not a potential human being, it is a human being with potential. Embryologists the world over agree on this
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend Listen to me, i do not encourage abortions. I encourage the mother's choice. At the end of the day certain circumstances do not lend themselves to the upbringing of an unwanted child. Would you rather this unfeeling, unthinking being be prevented or a thinking, feeling human baby being neglected, starving, and unloved. Have you seen trainspotting? That is the alternative in many cases where a woman could not bring up a child but cannot consider abortion.
coreycunninghamkarl 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl Question: Should we kill human beings based on the assumption that they might suffer?
If the answer is yes, then who decides how much suffering a person must possibly experience before they can be killed? How could it not be assumed that perhaps YOU might suffer in your future, and then how would you be able to defend against someone killing you?
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@coreycunninghamkarl There are always alternatives to abortion and help is available from a number of groups. Also there are many many childless couples crying out for the opportunity to adopt. Abortion does not solve anything. Are you aware of recent studies which link abortion to mental health problems and increased risk of cancer to the mother. Abortion just adds to women's difficulties. Trainspotting? I have no idea what this is.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@prolifeprincess Well if you're gonna use that logic, you could say that ironically the pro-life position doesn't consider the life of the mother in comparison to that of the fetus/embryo and that it's anti-choice for the mother. The mother didn't choose to have sex in the case of rape, and the fetus doesn't develop memory for at least two months. Should she not be allowed to have an abortion if it is shortly after rape (before the fetus has developed conciousness)?
MellowMink 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend Really? That's interesting! A brilliant fact. Thank you for posting it.
SuburbiaSurvivor 2 months ago
@SuburbiaSurvivor If you are talking about the maternal mortality rate in Ireland then yes. Ireland has the lowest on the planet. Our government is under pressure from the EU to legalise abortion and the only response our mealy mouthed EU politicians can make is to say 'we'll look into it' instead of shouting our great record in maternal care from the rooftops.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend no, YOUR statement is nonsense. of course there are still cases in which the mother's health and life is in danger if she continues with the pregnancy. it's almost as if you're trying to say that ireland's low maternal mortality rate is a result of abortion being illegal.
crlnewlls 2 months ago
@crlnewlls I'm not sure which statement you are referring to but you appear to be suggesting that there are cases where an abortion may be required to save the life of an expectant mother. Now that IS utter nonsense. Abortion is not a treatment for any known medical condition. I'm not suggesting that that Ireland's low mortality rate is because abortion is illegal but it certainly puts paid to the pro abortion argument that it should be made legal to improve reproductive health in Ireland.
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
@TheSciencefiend mccain is right that democrats say "health of the mother" and stretch that to where it can just mean convenience. but OF COURSE there are cases that the woman will die if she has the baby. i know someone who was given a 10% chance of survival for both her and the baby if she went through with the pregnancy. she went through with it anyway and neither one of them made it. & what about young girls whose bodies aren't developed enough yet to carry and give birth? do some research.
crlnewlls 2 months ago
@crlnewlls I'll say it again. Abortion is not health care and is not a treatment for any known medical condition. I don't know the case you are referring to so I cannot comment on it. As for young girls, this is a very sad situation and of course very young girls have conceived and given birth but is not at all desirable. I will say however that hard cases make bad law and in spite of original limitations, abortion on demand soon became the norm resulting in over 50 million worldwide annually
TheSciencefiend 2 months ago
Also what happens if the mother have high chances of dieng while pregnant? Let her die and lose the baby aswell? Go abortion
bengacris 3 months ago
Why people care about other people life's decision like abortion? How is that changing their life? And if someone do it, then they'll go to hell (for religious people) and you won't have to worry about it. And phetus are not thinking at all, it's better to abort your baby inside you while it's not conscient than letting him die from starvation.
bengacris 3 months ago
@bengacris because it doesn't JUST affect that person, it effects everyone. Abortion is economic suicide, it kills our future soldiers, it threatens our culture, it undermines life which leads to things like genocides and Holocausts (getting rid of old people, retarded people, blacks, which BTW is how planned parenthood started, to get rid of minorities and retards... etc), never mind it comes out of our taxes, so you actually have to pay for someone elses choice! How does it NOT affect us?
Agape4TheirSakes 3 months ago
@Agape4TheirSakes Countries with the highest birth rate are third world hell holes. You're full of shit.
TheTerrorUforgot 3 months ago
@TheTerrorUforgot you are comparing apples to oranges, in those countries they don't have social security that needs to be paid into by the following generation, never mind you can't even call it their country as most of the stuff is owned by foreigners like in Zambia where all the money goes to China. It will effect us like say Muslims, who don't abort and have lots of kids they can change the political shift (and already have in some places) to the point of shairia law, where women are nothing
Agape4TheirSakes 2 months ago
@Agape4TheirSakes Muslim countries aren't very well off. They would also be third-world hell holes if not for oil. A high birthrate shows an uneducated populace who still use children for labor to offset the cost of raising them, who have no concept of birth control ( or are puppets of the Pope). No country has overgrown and fallen to immigrants yet, so you have no examples to stand on , sir. It's just hypothetical conjecture or outright lies (genocide BS)
TheTerrorUforgot 2 months ago
Here abortion is a right and is supported by the governement. Long live Canada.
bengacris 3 months ago
@bengacris that is why Canada will not live long...none of those aborted babies are paying into our system...the generation after the baby boomers won't be able to retire, our economy will dwindle (except by some miracle like a gold mine find) and our culture will be handed over to whoever is having the kids, which would be the immigrants, mainly Muslims...yeah, we will eventually be under sharia law which puts down women...yippee...no offence intended to Muslims like Mahfooz Kanwar
Agape4TheirSakes 3 months ago