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  • acutally Honda has a jet but it's for rent so at least they are trying to make money of fit

  • job security can't be guarenteed, it's not fair just because it's union

  • as long as they pay it back with interest in a reasonable time then I wouldn't mind too much

  • gotta love John Stossel - he thinks a lot like Ron Paul . Check out his book "Give me a break".-

  • hahaha.. I like how Stossel doesn't beat around the bush at 2:20. "It's so...dumb".

  • That's why I only buy foreign cars, so I don;t have to deal with this bullshit.

  • It's guys like those 4 greedy, apathetic son-of-bitches who destroyed the Big Three and turned Detroit from a proud. magnificent city into the crime-ridden shithole that it is today! Meanwhile the people who really made the Big Three great (the autoworkers themselves) are those who have suffered. Let THOSE guys get the helping hand, not the management - to hell with them

  • fuck them let them go out.get a real low paying job like the rest of us

  • And you shouldn't be allowed to demand something from someone that you don't own! Who the fuck do you think you are! The price of a light bulb is set by the market. ALL PRICES ARE SET THAT WAY. Companies charge as much as they feel the public will pay given the VALUE of the good or service. They then base their wages on those prices (among other forces on the business). This is straight Economics 101 supply and demand. If you don't understand that then you need to do some serious reading!

  • Unions are not the problem. Greedy, bloated plutocrats in management are the problem. At one point, GM had 27 different options for the instrument cluster on one car! No sane person would think this is a rational business model. If we got rid of unions tomorrow, Toyota and Honda would immediately reduce their wages. You think things are bad now, get rid of unions and just watch what happens.

  • @bddc201 Wrong, unions are a BIG part of the problem. Unions do not understand something that the rest of us do every time we make a purchase, go somewhere, and/or do some thing; it's called VALUE! Everything has a value; goods, services, labor, and even time has a value. Just because you pay someone more doesn't mean that the value of the good or service they produce is worth more. Unions have created situations that they claim to be against which is sending jobs overseas because of value!

  • @mikebri527 Unions didn't send jobs overseas, politicians encouraged and allowed it and should be criminally accountable. If it weren't for unions you would be begging to work for sub-minimum wage in a sweatshop.

  • @bddc201 Ah yes, typical union mentality. Let me explain it to a simpleton like you, First, the job of any owner of a company is NOT to screw over the employee. It doesn't work that way. You're just a sap for the bull crap you're being fed by union leaders. Second, a true free-market economy (without govn't intervention) would truly prosper and the worker would be in demand. That places him/her in the driver seat to have businesses compete for his talent. THAT'S WHAT DRIVE WAGES UP you idiot!

  • @mikebri527 There is no such thing as a "free market economy". Never has been, never will be.. You've obviously never worked in some of the places I have. Most employers will cheerfully screw virtually anyone they think is powerless to make them accountable. The employer nearly always enjoys a huge advantage over individual employees because there are usually way more workers than there are jobs. Unions were necessary long ago, they are necessary now, and will be for as long as people are human.

  • @bddc201 There was a free market economy in this country. Read your history. You must really SUCK at what you do because I've had employers compete over me when I've gone looking for a job. As long as unions and big govn't are in bed together the little man will always get screwed. There are more workers then jobs because of our govn't caused recession. How stupid can you be to not see that. The only way to get beyond that is to get rid of big unions and big govn't.

  • @mikebri527 That's a very suspicious statement. I don't recall making a statement about what caused the recession on this vid. Unions weren't always around, and ho boy did the little guy get screwed then! Ever heard of Pullman City Indiana? If you worked for Pullman, you had to live in their housing, pay rent and electricity (all at a tidy profit for the employer, of course) and buy groceries at their store. Some people wound up OWING money at the end of the pay period. Merely one example.

  • @bddc201 There's nothing suspicious about the reason why there are more workers than jobs. I've told you TWICE! I've tried to explain it to you but you refuse to take off the blinders and rose colored "union" glasses. When an economy is booming, jobs are plentiful and the worker is in demand pure and simple. If you can't see that then there's no hope for you. Stay in your sad sorry pitiful union world while I move up the ladder and make my life all those around me better! Loser!

  • @mikebri527 He he he, yeahhhhhhhh. Good luck with that. ;>)

  • @bddc201 I don't need luck. I've been successful with that! Unlike some like you who doesn't have a clue the way the world really works. I've worked at the same profession since 1984 and have successfully started and run two part-time businesses. Why does it work for me? Because I go and get it and don't whine and make excuses about why I can't succeed. Unions don't promote entrepreneurship, they promote mediocrity. If unions are as good as you say, then why are there numbers falling?

  • @mikebri527 Little by little, government has helped corporations screw the working class by making it harder and harder to join a union with their "right to work" laws and such. Whoopee, you're a big success (eyes rolling). So freaking what? You sound like you imagine you're better than everyone else. Since when did a union say they promoted entrepreneurial pursuits? That's not what they do. Unions get economic justice for working people through collective bargaining of labor contracts.

  • @bddc201 Economic justice? What the fuck is that! Show me in the US Constitution that your country is to provide you with economic justice! And you still haven't answered my question as to why unionized companies have been in decline since the 60s. Is it because they don't work? Yeah it is! Unions breed mediocrity, laziness, and a culture of entitlements. You didn't start the company, don't own it, have no skin in the game, yet you feel you are entitled to high wages! You're pathetic!

  • @mikebri527 I sure am glad I don't work for you.

  • @bddc201 You would be happy to work me! If you're a good worker and you do the job, then I should pay you AS MUCH AS I CAN to keep you as an employee so you don't go to work for someone else. However (and here's the most important part) but not too much that I go out of business. If the price I can sell my goods for only warrants paying that job $15/hr. (remember I own the job, NOT THE PERSON but the job), then you have the right to accept that job or not.

  • @bddc201 But if I pay you $20/hr because the union demands it and I can't raise the price of my goods because of competition, then I have no choice but to lay you off and take my business elsewhere (i.e another state or country) where I can pay the wage I can afford that keeps me in business. Again as I said early on in our debate, it comes down to VALUE (and also property rights)! Unions just don't don't understand those two concepts and probably never will. That's why they're in decline.

  • @mikebri527 Go to the hardware store and tell them you're only willing to pay two cents apiece for a five dollar light bulb. Tell the electric company you're only going to pay them 20% of what they charge. You think you're on some moral high ground because you own a company? If you believe a human being is only worth $15 an hour, you should'nt be allowed to run a business.

  • If the auto industry failed then all you import drivers would be paying for my college education and my unemployment check.

  • Detroit is a "Crown Jewel" we need to protect? HAHAHAHAH HEHEEE AH HAAHAHEEHEHEH *SNORT*

  • US car companies F'n blow. Their cars suck, their marketing sucks, their business model sucks, everything about them just F***ing sucks. Honda and Toyota sell cars b/c they make good quality cars w/good resale value. GM is such a joke. They're trying to push this Volt, when Tesla's had an electric vehicle for like 3 years now.

  • The problem is bigger than any one element. Think of it as a trinity between company, union & gov't. The gov't wants votes. The company wants subsidies & looser regs. The unions want membership. So the gov't gives bailouts in order the get union votes come election time & in order to keep contributions coming. Restrictions on political donations could help keep all this in check. Only private individuals, not companies and unions, should be able to contribute to political campaigns.

  • People buy more imports than domestic shitboxes!!!!

  • hey, Chinks are shitting on our heads...what a shame !

  • I don't get to go on strike if I don;t like my job. ALso Honda has jets but that's because they make them

  • I don;t get to go on strike if I don't liek aspects of my job

  • Hybrids blow monkey nuts.

    I would rather they flew in on a jet pack and said were gonna drill in America and be self reliant...and pursue constant American Independence.

  • @DamnYourReallyUgly My friend has a Prius and it's awesome. But I agree with you 100% on persuing American independence. Drill on our own soil and phase out forgien oil while phasing in alternative energy.

  • ford took absolutely no bailout money. they are the only american company that deserves your money.

  • @Gsnickets NOT REALLY AFTER MAKING SO BAD CARS FOR SO MANY YEARS THEY DON'T DESERVE SHIT!!

    IF YOU WANT TO GIVE'EM YOUR MONEY THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

  • Bailouts rewards companies for being counter productive. I fucking hate the government.

  • There's no such thing as job security. That's the same as saying: you don't have to be a productive member of the workforce anymore, the union will protect you whether you earn your wage or not. What bullshit. If you don't produce you lose your job to someone who will. What happened to the American work ethic?

  • Just 1 Billion dollars will buy 20 brand new Gulfstream G5's. Congress gave the banks and automobile industry tens of billions of dollars, much of which was wasted. I can see the scenario in my mind....

    Congress: Sorry pals, but we're going to make you drive cars to the next meeting and talk shit about your private jets. Apparently the people know more than we think.

    Big Business: Oh, it's OK sweetie. So long as you give me that reach around you promised in return.

  • Nearly 2 years and 25 billion dollars later and what happen, GM AND Chrysler went bankrupt despite their bailout.

    More money down the drain.

  • i will never buy a shitty "American" car. Government Motors makes shitty looking and shitty performing cars.

  • @infomercialtime Hey now, do NOT group Ford in with Government Motors. I for one think Ford makes good products, especially their trucks. I would give my left arm for a Ford SVT Raptor, ha.

  • @infomercialtime most of the japanese cars sold here are made in the united states, especially Hondas

  • @bphutchins thats exactly right. And no the money doesnt "go back to Japan" as stupid people put it. If it did then how would they open new plants in USA and also pay workers and keep the USA plants running. And the bailout monies GM and Chrysler took went mostly to their execs and over seas operations.

  • @KongKit I should know, I'm from the Marysville are in Ohio

  • @bphutchins i was agreeing with yu and adding sum imput

  • How do you spelling the auto union guys last name? Ghettofinger?

  • The bailout was Obama's payback to the unions that got him elected. The bailout was for the UAW pension, not for the American auto industry. The bond holders, those legallly first in line, were forced to take the biggest haircut. The deal was highly illegal, and typical of big government.

  • This just goes to show that the politician know diddly dick. Even if they all went bankrupt, who cares? There are so many foreign car companies that build and sell here now that it doesn't even matter. They've essentially become the knew American automakers.

  • Robbin hood in reverse... good line.

  • Well, The Jet Issue...it's probably the cheapest way for them to get their stuff done (or not)....I do not critise they having a Jet....

  • now thats how you spend tax dollars. I would've rather seen the billions for bailout burned, that would've been more entertaining.

  • I beat the hell out of a UAW worker the other day. Had a smile on my face when it was over. The UAW has destroyed the US auto industry

  • i'm so glad we spent billions to bail them out just to watch them go bankrupt anyway a few months later.

  • ok they got a bailout ... i expect a brand new camaro and challenger in my driveway within the next 3 days ...

  • It even makes me pissed off and i'm not even american.

  • "No one made that argument during the bank bailout"

    Bull-fucking-shit.

  • Dey tuk 'ur jebs!

  • if i were any SMART member of congress i would have told the big 3 they get nothing, we should have let them fail.

  • @TJ8974

    Exactly but those congressmen must save the industry or they alienate the Auto-workers union from giving them Millions of dollars and a huge voting block. Ford and GM are icons but they were icons when free market and free labor roamed the States. If the congress had a spine they would have told the Union boss go pound sand because your going down with the ship unless you compromise hard on your entitlements.

  • None of the Bail outs made sense especialy the banks and the insurance crooks... The big 3 auto makers made the most sense out of no sense loans

  • Finally, he neglects to mention that Ford didn't get any money.

  • Honda's never owned any private jets?

    What? No? Really? How about you back that one up? After all, they do manufacture jets, so why not?

  • He also goes on to say they built cars people didn't want - while that isn't true (go figure Toyota has 8 SUVs, not counting the two trucks) - the Detroit automakers were doing cars people wanted, only they neglected the lower end of their line so that when demand would shift dramatically (like it did in the Summer of 08) from larger vehicles to smaller ones, they wouldn't have a competitive product to offer.

    The factory innovation bit is an half-truth, some plants can do that.

  • They knew back at least since in 2004 that they would be needing to switch to smaller cars.

  • Stossel forgot Toyota got a bailout package from the Japanese government (under the table, typical Japan stuff - they also got the government to manipulate the yen, explaining Honda's sudden profit - a lot of Euro auto makers have been bailed out in the past and some are today too - it's basically a direct consequence of perpetual government intervention in the industry).

    But yeaaaaah, most of this is right.

  • Are we suppose to believe some douche bag over the internet or are you going to back up what you say with sources?

  • What do you want me to back up? You can check Toyota's website for the US (they've got plenty more SUVs for sale overseas).

    Honda does manufacture jets.

    Toyota and Honda have received their share of help in the 70's and still did recently, it partly explains the shuffle in the board (although that was not driven by government), Reuters and a couple of other outlets had the story up (meaning you can GOOGLE it).

    Ford and GM have flex plants, but fewer.

    Ford didn't get tarp money.

  • At least so far, but they did get DE (dept. of energy) money, just like Nissan and a number of other manufacturers.

    I'm not really going to back it up with a bunch'a links since well, I've been aware of all this for nearly a year now, and the stuff's wildly available online from credible media outlets and Wiki.

    The thing is Stossel said they didn't get a bailout but that was in De. 08, they got one later.

  • I can't complain about what Japan does. I can only talk about what the US government does, and I don't like what they have done.

  • Why in hell would our tax dollars let foreign car companies participate in "cash for Clunkers" ?????

    When we are trying to rescue American Car companies ??? . Quit making excuse and working against an expensive American $ effort and buy an American brand and let's get this American economy back on track !

    I own 2 chevys and 1 Mercury Marquis

    God Bless America

    Greg

  • Well, the car may be assembled in the US, maybe, but so are many foreign automakers. Additionally, the parts may be made anywhere, and are often made in East Asia. Also, GM is a multinational corporation. It did originate in the US, but that's about it.

  • I think the reason why the big three arn't working is because frankly, Americans are beginning to realize that SUVs burn too much gas, the muscle cars arn't as pretty, and there's nothing that really makes the normal sedans more worthwhile than the competiters.

  • If you watched the video, you would also realize that GM pays people to do nothing for four years and dish out 105,000 thousand dollars to people who got fired.

  • It doesn't do that anymore (that God, that was fucking stupid).

  • Unions should be like a good government: limited power but enough to maintain reasonable rights. I have talked to some people who have been layed off or know someone who's laid off and say that a severance package is no good if they can't get a job to maintain their lives. Several of them would trade off that money if they could get another job quickly or take a few cuts if they could not get laid off.

  • If the United States was union free and had better economic freedom, there would more jobs available. Believe it or not, companies have to compete for employers, which translates into better working conditions for everyone.

  • The asian companies has recevied bailouts from their governments.

  • Fuck the bullshit! If the federal gov bailed every American out instead of the big three think of the positive effect it would have on all of us! And talk about your stimulation of the economy, We LOVE to spend MONEY! As long as every dollar we spend stays within the U.S. No Made in China shit! Also if the educational system could receive Billions maybe we would stop the future of stupidity that will bring us right back to the problem we're experiencing now!

  • actually, if the government gave every american extra money it would have no positive net effect what-so-ever.

    Tax and spend, or even deficit spending is just a wealth shifter. Usually it shift's wealth from healthy companies to unhealthy ones, like the bailout, or from politically connected indebted americans, to financially secure americans, like the TARP program.

    when government redistributes it usually comes at the expense of one to help the other, and the other is usually 'connected'

  • Unions can be understood using a darwinian analogy: they jump on a host and feed off of it until the host is exhausted before they jump onto the next host.

  • GM...needs more 1000 billion dollar again..!

  • Or a Trillion UAW destroyed caused american cars to go bad

  • yeah, they are going bankrupt in sections now anyway. The bailout was just a payoff to unions

    The real reason why Detroit doesn't want them going bankrupt is because then the Union contracts would be renegotiated and the guy turning a screw 800 times a day wouldn't get 20+ an hour and then 15 an hour after retirement. The reason Obama wants to band-aid them with more money is so the union can continue taking dues out of those paychecks.

    Dragging heels on fuel efficiency doesn't help either

  • At least,while GM in please for 1000,Chrysler filed for smart -bankruptcy!

    55% stakes owned by VEBA,20% owned by Fiat,10% owned by US & Canadian government

    So Fiat could gain the remaining 15% depending on its Contribution Level.....

    Example;the first 5% will be granted after it offered a 40mpg cars platform to the name of Chrysler..

    And CEO RN & co-pres TL will leave the company..

    I wonder..that the italian-Fiat group have to break the wall ....

  • Those claiming that that the main reason for the downfall of the so-called big 3 is their refusal to "listen" to the customer who wanted above all else fuel efficient cars should know that the only reason a company like GM didn't go bankrupt earlier is because those hot selling SUVs and trucks generated enough income to support the other money losing segments of the business. I am all for saving the environment, I only wish like-minded folks would stick to facts and common-sense.

  • the relationship existing between the so-called big three and the unions reminds me of the relationship between a parasite feeding on its host...paying an employee up to 4 times the free market wage or paying an ex-employee 85% of their salary for sitting around idly for years (in some cases up to 10 years) is bad enough...having the gull to come over later on and whine about losing money and wanting tens of billions in tax-payer dollars in assistance is unconscionable.

  • govt wont let Big3 go bankrupt which would mean these unions die. Govt is in bed with these unions

  • HIgh labour costs and slow sales aren't the only problem... Further compounding the issue is the possibility of bankruptcy. If the Big Three file for chapter 11, then UAW contracts are void, which is why they are considering it. But don't forget that also means whatever warranty was in place on a new car also goes out the window. A warranty is essentially a promissary note for future services.

    Who's willing to purchase a brand new car without a valid warranty?

  • my PT cruiser (PT loser) seems to have been made in mexico. i used to haul parts from michigan & surrounding ares down to nueve laredo,TX, where the parts went across the border to be assembled in mexico, so why should we the people "bail out" the big 3 when the big 3 sent the american jobs out of this country for "cheaper labor"? this is/was clinton's doing paid for by lobbyists by the big 3. and if you think your union UAW, is going to do anything about it, just wait & see...

  • yes, the owners of these car companies and union has gone corrupt. however, the union exists because companies did not know how to treat it's workers. before unions, there was child labor, people were being worked to death, no benefits , and people made pennies on the dollar. look at wal-mart. they are non-union and are always being sued for violations of labor laws and worker discrimination. the solution is for both company and union to reorganize and operate in accordance with the market

  • Wal-Mart employs 1.3 million people. If they really were corrupt, no one would work for them.

  • You're nincompupes. "blah blah this job is worth this, that worth that, blah blah. the only way to make sure wages don't get manipulated by capricious, vain idiots like you morons (except smart lawyer versions of you) is to keep the market free and let supply and demand dictate wages.

  • terrible management, boring shit cars like the SUV, poor investments, contribute to the big 3's road to bankruptcy. the japanese car industry will dominate they dont need a bailout for the their companies based here.

  • Hey douche, it IS your fault. You make ridiculous amounts of money for what you do WHILE getting benefits. While most other Americans get crap...and no benefits.

    Oh, just get a better paying job. Ya, like its just that easy. Sorry, I live in the real world where there are a hundred other people are applying for the same "good jobs" and everyone else has to take whats left.

  • THE UNION ISNT THE PROBLEM! 29 dollars and hr seems like a fair wage to me plus its not like a non union job part of that 29 dollars goes to your medical. The autoworker is only 10% of the cost of building the car. The main thing that is killing the big 3 is the recent high cost of fuel causing truck and suv sales to drop. Thats the bread and butter of the big 3 and it always will be

  • the average wage is actually around $78/hr. That means the car costs more to make, but they still have to sell at a competitive price.Honda and toyota are around $45. The legacy costs are hindering them too.

  • Why the hell should someone on an assembly line make that much? My brother works at a nuclear power plant and only makes like $33 an hour; so why the hell should someone who just pushes a button on an assembly line be making $29 an hour?

  • The Postal employees are crying for more paid personal days which I don't think even include vacation and sick days I mean fuck wages take a big chunk out of profit and when it's tax payers paying the wages and benefits that's even more rediculous

  • I mean no offence but $21 an hour for mail sorting is too much. Also who's to say if you're underpaid. I don't work in a union job yet get union type benefits but not there perks that are a bit unfair. I can't just stop working and cry for more benefits when I am already getting it good, for fuck sakes be thankful you have a job in this economy fucking Americans have ruined it

  • I'm a mail carrier not a sorter and I'm not crying for anything . plus we aren't making as much as exec or other specialized field in the postal service , we do the hard labor, and deal with the elements and suffer injuries and yet cost less that ups and FedEx,, and dhl , which pays more then postal . and $21 is the starting pay now for carriers and the post office trying to get rid of sorters, because of all the automated machines, which make $15 to start .

  • Unions are bullshit and have pulled the big three down. Americans have become stupid and lazy and we're getting what we deserve.

  • Maybe , but dont blame a union for the companies situation, the union didnt design the cars , the union have workers who just assemble them, and thats pretty dangerous , u got to really think about that. GM, Ford , Dodge, make ugly looking cars, with no good resell value,but when the shit the fan, people are blaming the union. $29, or $35 an hour is really nothing compare to how much the execs make yet they do nothing but give green lights to bad looking car. they need to cut there pay

  • fucking unions they make employers overpay people I mean $29 an hour to build cars get real and all those benefits? RIDICULOUS

  • u cant blame all unions, maybe there union are bad in your eyes , but u dont know what the employees go through to make those cars . No and day Employers looks for ways to scam there workers and pay them alot less then what they should, im in the postal union, and u dont know what we at the post office have to deal with , with out the union, the exec would slave us , and under pay us. i make $21 and hour , we couldnt get that with out the union.

  • Bailouts no, loans yes! This will be payed back like the loan chrysler got in the 70's. When compairing the big three one must also consider that honda and toyota's home base market is in small cars. In America for the last 30 years gas guzzlers were in damand till gas went to $4.00 gal.. A Every country is in the process of helping their industries currently. In a capitolist economy with a gold standard I say NO BAILOUTS. In THIS messed up government controlled economy I say why not.

  • Robin hood in reverse!!! Fabulous. Stossel is so on point here.

  • whats the reason why "American Consumers" are buying Toyotas and Hondas the last 20 years most of them repeat customers ?

    are American Consumers dumb/idiots for buying them ?

    whos the idiot then ?

  • how about we let they government buy out the big 3 and we can all drives ladas

  • Stossel is anti union. The UAW carved out the american middle class. The problem with the U.S. auto industry is not the UAW. The problem is making they made the wrong cars along with unfair trade policy.

  • Unfair trade policy!? Gimme a break! They need to reorganize their businesses in order to be sustainable. By following the UAW demands, they obviously cannot sustain their business without a bailout at the cost of ordinary Americans who make less than these union workers.

  • There's an answer to this problem and its simple. Let the Big 3 go bankrupt. Then they can get rid of the little greedy union workers and restructure their business. The union is the problem. Bankruptcy is the solution.

  • intelligentmeathead.

    'Let the Big 3 go bankrupt. Then they can get rid of the little greedy union workers and restructure their business.'

    Exactly. Then honda, nissan, etc can buy up the factories cheaply and snatch up any union workers who are willing to work for a competitive salary. And the incompetent CEO's can try and find anyone willing to hire them as a janitor.

  • looking for friends

    seen it yesterday! lets chat Hg

  • Goddamnit...the worst part about this story is the big three still gets money out of this...depressing.

  • I've been saying it all along, there's a reason people are buying Japanese cars.

  • i love john stossel

  • perfect explanation. just perfect.

    there is no one set of shoulders to throw blame on for this, as there is no one set of shoulders to support these companies when they go belly up.

  • who was the congressmen at 4:51-4:58???

  • Democratic Congressman Michael Capuano of Massachusetts

  • thanks!

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