from birth ( or before? ) we all have unique experiences that only we had these events in our own personal lives effect how we see, experience and react to the world around us no living thing ever holds the exact same opinion or belief as any other just like no living thing sees exactly the same color as anyone else. You live in your meme/reality tunnel and I live in mine. At times they may run parallel but that's all. See "Maybe Logic"
Sorry ppl. Religion is nice to have if it makes you happy, but you can not convince people with it or use it as a base for decision that are going to affect all people. If you say "A is simply true", the counterargument is as simple as "No, it's not.". But scientific facts are the same for all people who look at them and can thus be used to find common ground.
This is an interesting, yet inconsistent video in light of her video on the burden of proof. I have seen too many people espousing their firm grasp on reason while making errors from a lack thereof.
You cannot convince the unreasonable to accept reason based on a reasonable argument. It's bordering on begging the question but, at the very least, it's trying to reach an audience you will never reach through reasoned argument. You can't save everybody, ZJ. Just try not to be living next door to them when they go off.
I think a more effective analysis of the situation is this:
When someone has put a great deal of care into developing their epistemology and world view, they have many layers of reasoning which take some time to process. When backed into a corner, without adequate time to consider what is being presented, people will often become defensive and try to avoid the issue. If you spend a great deal of time honing your beliefs, it is unreasonable to expect others to agree quickly.
How would it even be possible not to use reason? Everyone uses everyday reason, right? Like you decide to wear warm clothes if it's cold outside, since it is proven, you are less likely to get cold that way.
Or are there in fact people who just take out their bible and look what it says about cold weather and clothing?
Is it that "people don't like reasoning" or people can see through your "reasoning" and you don't like that, many people have found many flaws in your "reasoning".
You are remarkably erudite with flawless reasoning and considered arguments. But you could lighten up a little, if that's in your nature. I mean no disrespect, it is merely a suggestion.
@SaruCharmed Well if they don't want to put forth a valid argument for why something is good and they don't want to admit that it's maybe not particularly good at all, but they enjoy it anyway... they kinda look stupid. ._.
True as this video is, it is also true that for some people reasoning just doesnt work out. Good for them that society is built in such a way they can still function.
Its also a bit optimistic to assume all reasoning would be done correctelly. False reasoning can be just as bad as running after your 'feelings'.
Excellently said. I agree with everything you have to say here.
We disagree on a lot of things, I'm sure. But one thing we have in common is that we are not Postmodernists. This is the philosophical culprit behind much of the crap thinking you describe. Interestingly, Postmodernism is the belief system which DISPROVES ITSELF immediately upon its own dogmatic assertion.
I appreciate your sincere efforts to ground your points in logic. No offense but...God bless you. ;-)
christians and atheists require faith that there is or is not a deity or deities. and reason is not based on faith. reason relys on logical proof or material evidence.
Your argument takes place in a reason-based arena, and you are attempting to use reason to show that reason is beneficial and correct. Therefore, you are presupposing that reasoned arguments lead to true statements in order to show exactly that. For example, you say that reason "actually works" and that "it is productive," but these statements cannot be supported without reasoned argument. (If you disagree, please suggest how it would be done.)
@meritocratic1337 Take two groups of cancer patients. One of them will be treated by scientists and researchers who are performing studies on which drugs and therapeutic regimens will be most effective in treating and curing cancer, and then the treatments found to do best will be given to the patients. The other group will be given random, bizarre treatments chosen by all kinds by people with no regard for whether they're actually effective or not.
@ZJemptv Suppose we perform the experiment as you stated it, and find that (for simplicity's sake) the patients which the scientists treat all get better and the patients which the non-reasonists treat all die. This is the fact of reality we are given. Now, you want to conclude based on this that it was in fact the scientists who caused the curing, and further that it was their reasoning which allowed them to do so. How do you do so without making an argument which presupposes reason is valid?
@meritocratic1337 Now, you are the one who said that "you say that reason "actually works" and that "it is productive," but these statements cannot be supported without reasoned argument". I then provided you an example by which the use of reason could be shown to actually work and be productive, an example which operates without the need for any recourse to reason. I showed you how this can be supported "without reasoned argument". Do you acknowledge that your claim has been disproven?
@ZJemptv No, I don't admit that. I don't agree that the example you gave indicates in any way that reason worked / was productive. In the example, the patients treated via reason got better, but that doesn't by itself show that reason worked. It is a conclusion, not an observation, and my question for you is how you would reach that conclusion without using reason. Do you see the distinction I'm trying to make?
@ZJemptv As much as I love your videos, this straw man doesn't actually disprove anything. While it is true that, in your single example, the merits of reason and logic has been validated, it is not necessarily true in general.
@ZJemptv Sweetheart Rosie Jones! You are reasoning with the unreasonable. If some one rejects the greatest achievement of mankind, namely, the ascendency of reason, as a tool to resolve questions, he has fallen to the level of prehistoric man. Don't bother with him.
@SaruCharmed No, I am using reason to point out that an argument for reason had assumed reason to hold, and is thus not a sound proof. I am making no attempt to prove that reason does not hold.
@meritocratic1337 You understand that this is absurd right? When I make a decision, I apply previous experience to bring about a desired effect. The only underlying 'assumption' is that things exhibit minimal change in behavior from one moment to the next. So instead of imagining a ton of alternatives, I expect the simplest patterns until I'm forced to revise to more complex ones. This is reasoning. It is a behavior. The only way to argue against it is to suggest a better way to achieve goals.
@vinguru896 The word "reason" isn't used in formal mathematics nor logic. However, if it were used, it wouldn't mean that the axioms were consistent. There's already a word for that. "Consistency." (Qualifications: Two months away from getting my BA in Mathematics.) However, even if it meant exactly what you wanted it to mean, it would still not give any strength to ZJ's argument.
@bro718 I cannot speak for ZJ, but I can tell you why I do not believe in pink coala bears in my corn-flakes,, there is no evidence for them.
This is also the case for religious God concepts.
If God is everything which exists, then someone saying they know God is like saying they know everything which exists.. else they only know a little of it, which is like everyone else; historical nonsense and selfish pride.
religion is a scam, it is actually an insult to the genuine idea of God.
Intellectualism is also dangerous. We need emotions too, otherwise we are just robots, we start talking like them (you sound like one already), then it's all about numbers, statistics, etc. Like falling in love, not everything always has to make sense.
@HECTOR2006ELPASO It's not dangerous to be intellectual, it's very dangerous not to be. And anyone with good intellect knows the importance of emotions (but has self-control when needed, mind you). ZJ only sounds like that because he's reading what he's written beforehand; he has a couple videos that aren't like that. And about love, I think it makes perfect sense, as any good thing does :)
it really does my head all the time when talking to some ppl and trying to analyze things logically they apply too much emotional thoughts of what they think but what they can't prove and also they quite often try to push the true and right conclusion away from them, just because it's comfortable that way... I hate when ppl don't know the meaning of the word admit and the acceptance of their failures:)
I think that what you dont account for is that each individuals thoughs are attatched to emotions, emotions that are more or less environmentally, and socially/environmentally proned to be evolved and mentally dominant. its like a field of specialization.
Considering the wrongs and the rights, hmm.. i think you could be close to go around the perceptual universe and back if you get over the roadbumps along the way.
give this a moment, its extremly hard to have such a big part in viewing the world enough to change ones point of view. and maybe its best done in an honorless manner and in ones own pace. gl with that roadbump of yours, there is a mighty price on the otherside ;)
now, here is where the matter of free will come to mind. i dont think i need to go on about that for too long right? we know where we stand on that one. could be a whole new thread though. but, that thread could be methaphoricly explained with this thread as well accually.
So, the wrongs and the rights. .. i am approching my spoiler here heh.. and .. =o if i fill in all the blanks it wont be as real to you. thats emotion btw. anyways, i'd feel glad if you would
like a picture says more than a thousand words, a picture is tied to emotions more than what a verbal medium could contribute.
understanding the contrast here, at least as i see it, is in the history of environmentall progression for each individual. which ultimately leads to, something close to a matter of choice for each induviual in sertain key moments of their lives, likly in a turbulance of adolescence.
and i can imagine you seing reason everywhere in my explanation here, but pls dont get lured towards a comfort zone. i am simply trying to explain my view in a way you're usually accustomed to understand. which also means that if i would have been talking to your counterpart i would have been speaking in emotional terms instead, and may have been able to explain is in a shorter manner actually.
Its abit like asking whats your most used way transport, (you're asking while your answer is by car), the one you're asking is saying -well i have to use the boat since i live on an island nowadays. its differant from when we once grew up isnt it.
i havent begun with being specific enough to give a straight answer, and its becuase its gotto be a backgroundstory that'll lead you out of this one =)
hmm, im close to giving you a discovery spoiler now but i rather have you find your answers to that one hums. anyways, the rights and the wrongs here is abit like reason contra emotion, and if the topic would be about culture we would call that a "culture clash" in sweden. two extremities of opinion. and reason is not opinionated? as are not feelings then you say? they both have an individually selfbiased history of evolution within each individual.
I have this problem with my mom all the time ZJ. She can never explain herself. Whenever we might argue about something and I ask her why? She'll say why do I always need an answer for everything? And I'll tell her well, if you're going to argue about something it'd be nice if you had an explanation to back it up. Then she'll just ignore me and refuse to answer,or walk away,or get more angry and just say I argue about nothing and she just wants peace.I don't think I'll ever get through to her.=/
if you say it is true because you believe it is then that means that it is true because you pretend it is.. which can make sense ... I hope you realize the word believe in the dictionary says to pretend..
I couldn't agree more. My mother is a well educated, accomplished business woman and a theist. If she spent 1/10 the reasoning she used for her business and pointed it towards her religion, she's be an atheist just like me.
I know exactly what you mean. People will say whatever is convenient for the moment, then completely contradict themselves in the next breath if you point out their logical fallacies. They will repeat this pattern, also throwing in ad hominem attacks and shouting. Very sad.
Hey ZGAY, did it ever occur to u that 99% of the pro-christian comments u get are just ppl trying to antagonize u? hmm. u aren''t that sharp are u? NERD.
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I see- By *yawning* u agree that u are a narcissistic chump who thrives on the negative comments. I have a request! please make another video where u bitch about ppl bitching about ur bunkbeds...i truly enjoy that.
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You're correct, he's not a nerd. he's a fucking geek, and you're an asshole. So go shove your nerd pride up your ass, Anyway, ZJ is an average geek, you make nerds sound like they are the hero's of the 21st century. 'Pool boy' of a nerd, HAHAHAHA, you're an angry geek, arn't you? HAHAHAHAHA.
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I pray for you. Christ died for you and I hope that you realize that before it's too late. When you find out that you were wrong and misled....what are you going to do? As smart as you claim to be you should be able to answer that.
@ZJemptv I very much enjoy your videos, it is just a shame that so many religious zealots seem to concentrate on insulting you rather than actually admitting that you have valid points. I was just curious, what is your IQ?
@ZJemptv Misled by what Martin Luther called "that damned whore" reason. He called it that because it would serve against god just as well as for god, which in Luther's mind meant it was evil. With us or against us rears it's ugly head again.
@theshredder404 You said "When you find out you were wrong and misled...what are you going to do?". To even consider making a response to that, you would have to assume that ZJ's arguments are going to be disproven. Any rational thinking individual can see that there is no proof of any of the thousands of Gods allegedly said to exist. So it would appear that the possibility of ZJ being proven wrong is remote at best. Also, prayer is completely ineffective. Google "Prayer effect studies"
@theshredder404 Christ didn't die. Christ "sacrificed" himself on the cross knowing that he would leave this world and live eternally as the king of heaven. Not just go to heaven but be the KING up there! I'd make that "sacrifice" at any time if you asked me. Leave an ugly world as ours with so many limitations and hatred and pain, hunger, fear etcetera to go to heaven as a king? Doesn't seem like a sacrifice to me. Also, why don't you open your bible and read Leviticus? You'd be surprised.
The day something impacting in your life occurs that you can't analyze, can't bear with pain and agony, have no explanation for, I just want you to remember to call on Jesus with FAITH that He will hear you, forgive you, accept you as you are and as you think and will embrace you with open arms...just remember that...
Unfortunately for us humans,the universe will not conform to our predispositions it will be us humans who have to conform our dispositions to the universe.
Very true and very sad. And though we expect it from religious people, what stings the most is when this comes from non-religious people who defend religion in that, "oh, stop picking on them, you're being an asshole" sort of thing, when you're the one standing there full of bible-shaped bruises on your face. Just because you're able to show a person how to crumble the foundation of their own faith doesn't mean you're an asshole. Means you actually are doing the world a favour.
True,reason can lead to very uncomfortable truths...but I would rather live with an uncomfortable truth than a comfortable delusion because I, like other reasonable people,not exclusively atheists,understand that belief won't change reality.
You are very hard to listen to, i think it may help if you speak from the heart instead of your screen, and use gestures. Its a video and the whole video is just of a talking head reading in monotone
My problem with your assertion is that people rarely say they just believe things. Many Christians say they believe something because the bible says so, and they know that the bible is true because of x, y and z. Everyone has their own standards of what constitutes a reasonable argument. The other big problem is that people are, at their core not reasonable, they are emotion driven with a thin veneer of reasonableness that cracks under surprisingly little stress.
The problem here would be that reason may be sound and valid....or sound and invalid (such as in the case of supernaturalism) or unsound and valid (when correct assumptions derive from poor logic).
THEREFORE: the two purple ponies in my bedroom are unusual (not to mention purple).
This is sound...the logic is inerrant...but the assumption is invalid. There are not two purple ponies dancing in my bedroom. This is kind of an abstract example but you can have actions that logically follow invalid ideas
Even if the terms are mixed...irrational and ignorant actions CAN AND DO follow from logistical extensions of false beliefs. The terms specifically are not important, what is important is that false premises can logically lead to violent actions. In the case of religion...IT DOES A LOT
"Reasoning, **when properly applied**, leads to conclusions that are difficult to deny." How does one know that reasoning is being properly applied?
Inductive reasoning can lead to incorrect conclusions. For example, because native European swans are white, Europeans concluded using inductive reasoning that all swans were white. I was only discovering in 1790 a breed of black swan native to Australia that showed them to be wrong.
Prior to 1790, a European who believed that black swans existed without grounds for that belief would still have been factually correct despite having no evidence to support their belief.
@EvilUmpire: I think we all understand that the folly of logic and reasoning are those things that lie outside our realm of understanding. We have to make certain assumptions to get anywhere, and I'll call them assumptions since nothing is 100% infallible.
The problem is, many do not know *how* to reason, or it they do, they do not use their reason with any consistancy. Many do not understand the methodology that must be employed when using reason - frankly, it is work - and many seek truth by taking the path of least resistance. Also, one who uses reason is called 'closed minded' by those who think that truths can come by means other than reasoned skepticism - and who wants to carry that tag around with them?
I once talked to a guy (Purushadasa on YouTube) who said that he had "observable data" for his belief. Of course this "observable data" was nothing else than just belief. When I pointed this out for him he started calling me stupid.
It's true what you say. Some peoples greatest fear are reasoning.
Every life form in the multi-verse is unique
from birth ( or before? ) we all have unique experiences that only we had these events in our own personal lives effect how we see, experience and react to the world around us no living thing ever holds the exact same opinion or belief as any other just like no living thing sees exactly the same color as anyone else. You live in your meme/reality tunnel and I live in mine. At times they may run parallel but that's all. See "Maybe Logic"
moldrad 3 days ago
Some people are just naturally not very good at reason.
Whatsisface1 3 months ago
Sorry ppl. Religion is nice to have if it makes you happy, but you can not convince people with it or use it as a base for decision that are going to affect all people. If you say "A is simply true", the counterargument is as simple as "No, it's not.". But scientific facts are the same for all people who look at them and can thus be used to find common ground.
KendrixTermina 4 months ago
This is an interesting, yet inconsistent video in light of her video on the burden of proof. I have seen too many people espousing their firm grasp on reason while making errors from a lack thereof.
PhillipNicewaner 9 months ago
You cannot convince the unreasonable to accept reason based on a reasonable argument. It's bordering on begging the question but, at the very least, it's trying to reach an audience you will never reach through reasoned argument. You can't save everybody, ZJ. Just try not to be living next door to them when they go off.
TheCeejReturns 9 months ago
If only "some people" would consider reasoning....
LOCUSTHATER666 1 year ago
I think a more effective analysis of the situation is this:
When someone has put a great deal of care into developing their epistemology and world view, they have many layers of reasoning which take some time to process. When backed into a corner, without adequate time to consider what is being presented, people will often become defensive and try to avoid the issue. If you spend a great deal of time honing your beliefs, it is unreasonable to expect others to agree quickly.
Baustrophedonic 1 year ago
suck cock and lick cunt
NoShame86 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
what does it mean when reason can't explain something?
boundtoscore 1 year ago
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boundtoscore 1 year ago
How would it even be possible not to use reason? Everyone uses everyday reason, right? Like you decide to wear warm clothes if it's cold outside, since it is proven, you are less likely to get cold that way.
Or are there in fact people who just take out their bible and look what it says about cold weather and clothing?
666Leosch 1 year ago
the best difference between us and other animals is that we have the ability to reason, lets use it
sameritaco 1 year ago
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sameritaco 1 year ago
im about throw up everywhere
MrKillDoe 1 year ago
Is it that "people don't like reasoning" or people can see through your "reasoning" and you don't like that, many people have found many flaws in your "reasoning".
daddyg321 1 year ago
You are remarkably erudite with flawless reasoning and considered arguments. But you could lighten up a little, if that's in your nature. I mean no disrespect, it is merely a suggestion.
Kaalec 1 year ago
-Sigh- I wish not everyone I knew was like this. I can't even mention my dislike of Twilight anymore without them basically telling me to shut up.
SquekyMice 1 year ago
@SquekyMice It is just as bad when someone starts to confront you about liking something that they do not. xD
SaruCharmed 1 year ago
@SaruCharmed Well if they don't want to put forth a valid argument for why something is good and they don't want to admit that it's maybe not particularly good at all, but they enjoy it anyway... they kinda look stupid. ._.
SquekyMice 1 year ago
True as this video is, it is also true that for some people reasoning just doesnt work out. Good for them that society is built in such a way they can still function.
Its also a bit optimistic to assume all reasoning would be done correctelly. False reasoning can be just as bad as running after your 'feelings'.
SirScourge 1 year ago
GIGANTIC FAGOT
king12124545 1 year ago
zjemptv can i just say your hot for many reasons lol not mocking just admiring your stance
cjhmmp 1 year ago
Excellently said. I agree with everything you have to say here.
We disagree on a lot of things, I'm sure. But one thing we have in common is that we are not Postmodernists. This is the philosophical culprit behind much of the crap thinking you describe. Interestingly, Postmodernism is the belief system which DISPROVES ITSELF immediately upon its own dogmatic assertion.
I appreciate your sincere efforts to ground your points in logic. No offense but...God bless you. ;-)
UncleIrv 1 year ago
christians and atheists require faith that there is or is not a deity or deities. and reason is not based on faith. reason relys on logical proof or material evidence.
dav37777777 1 year ago
you can use reason to prove that u cant trust reason.
u have no reason to trust urself because u dont know what u are, and you don't know what trust is
and therefore this phare makes no sense,
yes the world is absurd reason cannot explain absurdity
u know nothing, and if im wrong , tell me something that you know (nothing is not a thing)
frgjnfsgj 1 year ago
Your argument takes place in a reason-based arena, and you are attempting to use reason to show that reason is beneficial and correct. Therefore, you are presupposing that reasoned arguments lead to true statements in order to show exactly that. For example, you say that reason "actually works" and that "it is productive," but these statements cannot be supported without reasoned argument. (If you disagree, please suggest how it would be done.)
meritocratic1337 1 year ago
@meritocratic1337 Take two groups of cancer patients. One of them will be treated by scientists and researchers who are performing studies on which drugs and therapeutic regimens will be most effective in treating and curing cancer, and then the treatments found to do best will be given to the patients. The other group will be given random, bizarre treatments chosen by all kinds by people with no regard for whether they're actually effective or not.
See which group has a better survival rate.
ZJemptv 1 year ago 14
@ZJemptv Suppose we perform the experiment as you stated it, and find that (for simplicity's sake) the patients which the scientists treat all get better and the patients which the non-reasonists treat all die. This is the fact of reality we are given. Now, you want to conclude based on this that it was in fact the scientists who caused the curing, and further that it was their reasoning which allowed them to do so. How do you do so without making an argument which presupposes reason is valid?
meritocratic1337 1 year ago
@meritocratic1337 Now, you are the one who said that "you say that reason "actually works" and that "it is productive," but these statements cannot be supported without reasoned argument". I then provided you an example by which the use of reason could be shown to actually work and be productive, an example which operates without the need for any recourse to reason. I showed you how this can be supported "without reasoned argument". Do you acknowledge that your claim has been disproven?
ZJemptv 1 year ago 12
@ZJemptv No, I don't admit that. I don't agree that the example you gave indicates in any way that reason worked / was productive. In the example, the patients treated via reason got better, but that doesn't by itself show that reason worked. It is a conclusion, not an observation, and my question for you is how you would reach that conclusion without using reason. Do you see the distinction I'm trying to make?
meritocratic1337 1 year ago
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vinguru896 11 months ago
@ZJemptv As much as I love your videos, this straw man doesn't actually disprove anything. While it is true that, in your single example, the merits of reason and logic has been validated, it is not necessarily true in general.
vinguru896 11 months ago
@ZJemptv Sweetheart Rosie Jones! You are reasoning with the unreasonable. If some one rejects the greatest achievement of mankind, namely, the ascendency of reason, as a tool to resolve questions, he has fallen to the level of prehistoric man. Don't bother with him.
azzy314159 7 months ago
@ZJemptv or equally as bad, people who pray for divine intervention while rejecting scientific method.
(catching up on some vintage ZJ....)
RedroomStudios 9 months ago
@meritocratic1337 You are using reason to try to disprove reason?
SaruCharmed 1 year ago
@SaruCharmed No, I am using reason to point out that an argument for reason had assumed reason to hold, and is thus not a sound proof. I am making no attempt to prove that reason does not hold.
meritocratic1337 1 year ago
@meritocratic1337 You understand that this is absurd right? When I make a decision, I apply previous experience to bring about a desired effect. The only underlying 'assumption' is that things exhibit minimal change in behavior from one moment to the next. So instead of imagining a ton of alternatives, I expect the simplest patterns until I'm forced to revise to more complex ones. This is reasoning. It is a behavior. The only way to argue against it is to suggest a better way to achieve goals.
Baustrophedonic 1 year ago
@Baustrophedonic If you think logic is absurd or your argument is coherent, then you are mistaken.
meritocratic1337 1 year ago
@meritocratic1337 Reason doesn't mean the same thing that you think it means.
In the logic/math arena, all it means is that "previous assumptions are consistent."
vinguru896 11 months ago
@vinguru896 The word "reason" isn't used in formal mathematics nor logic. However, if it were used, it wouldn't mean that the axioms were consistent. There's already a word for that. "Consistency." (Qualifications: Two months away from getting my BA in Mathematics.) However, even if it meant exactly what you wanted it to mean, it would still not give any strength to ZJ's argument.
meritocratic1337 11 months ago
I reject your reasoning!! lol jk, good vid ^_^
mikerodeman 1 year ago
Are you a virgin? Anyway so what is your reasoning to believe in atheism? Is it logical, or is it based on what you believe to be true?
bro718 1 year ago
@bro718 I cannot speak for ZJ, but I can tell you why I do not believe in pink coala bears in my corn-flakes,, there is no evidence for them.
This is also the case for religious God concepts.
If God is everything which exists, then someone saying they know God is like saying they know everything which exists.. else they only know a little of it, which is like everyone else; historical nonsense and selfish pride.
religion is a scam, it is actually an insult to the genuine idea of God.
marsCubed 1 year ago
Intellectualism is also dangerous. We need emotions too, otherwise we are just robots, we start talking like them (you sound like one already), then it's all about numbers, statistics, etc. Like falling in love, not everything always has to make sense.
HECTOR2006ELPASO 1 year ago
@HECTOR2006ELPASO It's not dangerous to be intellectual, it's very dangerous not to be. And anyone with good intellect knows the importance of emotions (but has self-control when needed, mind you). ZJ only sounds like that because he's reading what he's written beforehand; he has a couple videos that aren't like that. And about love, I think it makes perfect sense, as any good thing does :)
seats19 1 year ago
that is very true...
it really does my head all the time when talking to some ppl and trying to analyze things logically they apply too much emotional thoughts of what they think but what they can't prove and also they quite often try to push the true and right conclusion away from them, just because it's comfortable that way... I hate when ppl don't know the meaning of the word admit and the acceptance of their failures:)
great vid
xpzwhisper 1 year ago
Godel's incompleteness theorems.
cadavr19 1 year ago
Hi,
I think that what you dont account for is that each individuals thoughs are attatched to emotions, emotions that are more or less environmentally, and socially/environmentally proned to be evolved and mentally dominant. its like a field of specialization.
Considering the wrongs and the rights, hmm.. i think you could be close to go around the perceptual universe and back if you get over the roadbumps along the way.
Part 1 of my comment
Satori86 1 year ago
give this a moment, its extremly hard to have such a big part in viewing the world enough to change ones point of view. and maybe its best done in an honorless manner and in ones own pace. gl with that roadbump of yours, there is a mighty price on the otherside ;)
feel free to throw me a comment sometime. cheers.
Part 8 of my comment, last part.
Satori86 1 year ago
now, here is where the matter of free will come to mind. i dont think i need to go on about that for too long right? we know where we stand on that one. could be a whole new thread though. but, that thread could be methaphoricly explained with this thread as well accually.
So, the wrongs and the rights. .. i am approching my spoiler here heh.. and .. =o if i fill in all the blanks it wont be as real to you. thats emotion btw. anyways, i'd feel glad if you would
Part 7 of my comment
Satori86 1 year ago
like a picture says more than a thousand words, a picture is tied to emotions more than what a verbal medium could contribute.
understanding the contrast here, at least as i see it, is in the history of environmentall progression for each individual. which ultimately leads to, something close to a matter of choice for each induviual in sertain key moments of their lives, likly in a turbulance of adolescence.
Part 6 of my comment
Satori86 1 year ago
and i can imagine you seing reason everywhere in my explanation here, but pls dont get lured towards a comfort zone. i am simply trying to explain my view in a way you're usually accustomed to understand. which also means that if i would have been talking to your counterpart i would have been speaking in emotional terms instead, and may have been able to explain is in a shorter manner actually.
Part 5 of my comment
Satori86 1 year ago
Its abit like asking whats your most used way transport, (you're asking while your answer is by car), the one you're asking is saying -well i have to use the boat since i live on an island nowadays. its differant from when we once grew up isnt it.
i havent begun with being specific enough to give a straight answer, and its becuase its gotto be a backgroundstory that'll lead you out of this one =)
Part 4 of my comment
Satori86 1 year ago
hmm, im close to giving you a discovery spoiler now but i rather have you find your answers to that one hums. anyways, the rights and the wrongs here is abit like reason contra emotion, and if the topic would be about culture we would call that a "culture clash" in sweden. two extremities of opinion. and reason is not opinionated? as are not feelings then you say? they both have an individually selfbiased history of evolution within each individual.
Part 2 of my comment
Satori86 1 year ago
I have this problem with my mom all the time ZJ. She can never explain herself. Whenever we might argue about something and I ask her why? She'll say why do I always need an answer for everything? And I'll tell her well, if you're going to argue about something it'd be nice if you had an explanation to back it up. Then she'll just ignore me and refuse to answer,or walk away,or get more angry and just say I argue about nothing and she just wants peace.I don't think I'll ever get through to her.=/
MysteryGreenTea 1 year ago
Cute scarf. :)
Heartwood256 1 year ago
no I think they are only saying this to steer the conversation a certain way..
woyay 2 years ago
that is what they mean man..
woyay 2 years ago
if you say it is true because you believe it is then that means that it is true because you pretend it is.. which can make sense ... I hope you realize the word believe in the dictionary says to pretend..
woyay 2 years ago
people reject reason only when it contradicts beliefs in which they find comfort
brianmoran1973 2 years ago
Ahh I love your logic, an old man name Larry needs to see this video :) instead of listning he just likes to yell or walk away if he's in the wrong.
Kamikuru77 2 years ago
I couldn't agree more. My mother is a well educated, accomplished business woman and a theist. If she spent 1/10 the reasoning she used for her business and pointed it towards her religion, she's be an atheist just like me.
DblOSmith 2 years ago 4
can i be your student?
maitreyaone 2 years ago 8
I know exactly what you mean. People will say whatever is convenient for the moment, then completely contradict themselves in the next breath if you point out their logical fallacies. They will repeat this pattern, also throwing in ad hominem attacks and shouting. Very sad.
MMA 2 years ago 7
Your thinking is so sexy! 5 stars.
SouthernContrarian 2 years ago 24
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey ZGAY, did it ever occur to u that 99% of the pro-christian comments u get are just ppl trying to antagonize u? hmm. u aren''t that sharp are u? NERD.
Omegaman990 2 years ago
*yawn*
ZJemptv 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I see- By *yawning* u agree that u are a narcissistic chump who thrives on the negative comments. I have a request! please make another video where u bitch about ppl bitching about ur bunkbeds...i truly enjoy that.
Omegaman990 2 years ago
Nerd? Nerds are those who engineer your medicine, fly our planes, build our homes, run billion dollar companies, study at CERN.
You would be lucky to be the pool boy of a "nerd".
You are an idiot.
cooperaerosmith 2 years ago 33
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You're correct, he's not a nerd. he's a fucking geek, and you're an asshole. So go shove your nerd pride up your ass, Anyway, ZJ is an average geek, you make nerds sound like they are the hero's of the 21st century. 'Pool boy' of a nerd, HAHAHAHA, you're an angry geek, arn't you? HAHAHAHAHA.
Omegaman990 2 years ago
We are nerds...
We fly your planes, we make your game,
we manage your websites, we guard your house, you need us!
NO NOT, FUCK WITH US!
TheReasonWhyGuy 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I pray for you. Christ died for you and I hope that you realize that before it's too late. When you find out that you were wrong and misled....what are you going to do? As smart as you claim to be you should be able to answer that.
theshredder404 2 years ago
Misled by what? Reality?
ZJemptv 2 years ago 22
@ZJemptv I very much enjoy your videos, it is just a shame that so many religious zealots seem to concentrate on insulting you rather than actually admitting that you have valid points. I was just curious, what is your IQ?
CynicalSkeptic1 1 year ago
@ZJemptv Yeah, reality. Observable evidence. The liar :)
melancholyid 1 year ago
@ZJemptv I'm thinking that theshredder404 doesn't like your reason "because it can lead to uncomfortable but undeniable conclusions."
kahmi987 9 months ago
@ZJemptv Misled by what Martin Luther called "that damned whore" reason. He called it that because it would serve against god just as well as for god, which in Luther's mind meant it was evil. With us or against us rears it's ugly head again.
newperve 6 months ago
When you say you pray you mean you talk to yourself?
spol07 2 years ago 2
So you claim it is not reasonable to believe that Christ died for ZJemptv ?
Because this is what this clip is about, no actual religious stuff here, just "you shouldn't fear reason".
Biarry 2 years ago 3
@theshredder404 You said "When you find out you were wrong and misled...what are you going to do?". To even consider making a response to that, you would have to assume that ZJ's arguments are going to be disproven. Any rational thinking individual can see that there is no proof of any of the thousands of Gods allegedly said to exist. So it would appear that the possibility of ZJ being proven wrong is remote at best. Also, prayer is completely ineffective. Google "Prayer effect studies"
CynicalSkeptic1 1 year ago
@theshredder404 Christ didn't die. Christ "sacrificed" himself on the cross knowing that he would leave this world and live eternally as the king of heaven. Not just go to heaven but be the KING up there! I'd make that "sacrifice" at any time if you asked me. Leave an ugly world as ours with so many limitations and hatred and pain, hunger, fear etcetera to go to heaven as a king? Doesn't seem like a sacrifice to me. Also, why don't you open your bible and read Leviticus? You'd be surprised.
fablan6 9 months ago
The day something impacting in your life occurs that you can't analyze, can't bear with pain and agony, have no explanation for, I just want you to remember to call on Jesus with FAITH that He will hear you, forgive you, accept you as you are and as you think and will embrace you with open arms...just remember that...
milliebx1 2 years ago
amen man
religion is still kicking in me
who the fuck cares about proving everything except you
i bet you that no one excepts you in todays society except your smartass friends
most people dont have common sense and i hope it stays that way
DobbePoq 2 years ago
Well said! We need more young people, like yourself, who try to look at the world in a rational, logical way.
Bberryman2 2 years ago 3
Unfortunately for us humans,the universe will not conform to our predispositions it will be us humans who have to conform our dispositions to the universe.
new8745fan 3 years ago 3
Very true and very sad. And though we expect it from religious people, what stings the most is when this comes from non-religious people who defend religion in that, "oh, stop picking on them, you're being an asshole" sort of thing, when you're the one standing there full of bible-shaped bruises on your face. Just because you're able to show a person how to crumble the foundation of their own faith doesn't mean you're an asshole. Means you actually are doing the world a favour.
limegreensquid 3 years ago
You speak my mind - exactly!
godhateslove 3 years ago
Great commentary, right on the money.
Most people have their heads for one reason only,
monthly barber visit. This is if they can ever get them out
of their asses long enough
quovadis1952 3 years ago
this is like porn to my ears...or something
haha
reallyahahaha 3 years ago 2
omg that is sooo true i cant get enough it like my brain cells are jaking off to the sound of his mid tone voice and ranting!!!
fattyJNL 3 years ago
thank you for doing this haha
you've avenged many arguments based on this alone.
i HATE people who do this... SO much
and ive said tidbits of your video millions of times.
but never so elegantly !
you really drive it home :)
keep making your videos, infact make more!
5 a day if need be haha i love them!
reallyahahaha 3 years ago
God you're fucking smart. Thank you for these video's they have enlightened me a little, and gave me hope that all people aren't idiots...
ITSAJACKAL1111 3 years ago
True,reason can lead to very uncomfortable truths...but I would rather live with an uncomfortable truth than a comfortable delusion because I, like other reasonable people,not exclusively atheists,understand that belief won't change reality.
new8745fan 3 years ago
EITHER WAY....logically consistent actions CAN AND ARE based on invalid or FALSE beliefs.
MaisonDetre 3 years ago
are you a boy
Sockhead360 3 years ago
You are very hard to listen to, i think it may help if you speak from the heart instead of your screen, and use gestures. Its a video and the whole video is just of a talking head reading in monotone
SpicerDavid 3 years ago
i see what you're saying but i think thats just one way of looking at it
cesarvivas 3 years ago
Sex scarf FTW
MaisonDetre 3 years ago
My problem with your assertion is that people rarely say they just believe things. Many Christians say they believe something because the bible says so, and they know that the bible is true because of x, y and z. Everyone has their own standards of what constitutes a reasonable argument. The other big problem is that people are, at their core not reasonable, they are emotion driven with a thin veneer of reasonableness that cracks under surprisingly little stress.
macrumpton 3 years ago
The problem here would be that reason may be sound and valid....or sound and invalid (such as in the case of supernaturalism) or unsound and valid (when correct assumptions derive from poor logic).
MaisonDetre 3 years ago
Something can only be sound if it is valid.
It is impossible for something to be 'sound and invalid.'
TheLawnmower17 3 years ago
Sound And Invalid
even if i'm mixing the two terms is as follows:
given the assumptions
the two purple ponies in my bedroom are dancing.
ponies are animals.
animals that dance are unusual.
THEREFORE: the two purple ponies in my bedroom are unusual (not to mention purple).
This is sound...the logic is inerrant...but the assumption is invalid. There are not two purple ponies dancing in my bedroom. This is kind of an abstract example but you can have actions that logically follow invalid ideas
MaisonDetre 3 years ago
Allow to clarify soundness and validity for you.
An argument is valid if and only if, if the premises are true then the conclusion must be true.
An argument is sound if and only if, the argument is valid and the premises are true.
As I said it is impossible for something to be sound if it is invalid.
The argument you gave is valid (the premises entail the conclusion) but it is not sound (the premises are false, as you say).
TheLawnmower17 3 years ago
Allow me to speak in complete sentences for you.
I get you kind of....but wow that is some mangled garbage.
MaisonDetre 3 years ago
Even if the terms are mixed...irrational and ignorant actions CAN AND DO follow from logistical extensions of false beliefs. The terms specifically are not important, what is important is that false premises can logically lead to violent actions. In the case of religion...IT DOES A LOT
MaisonDetre 3 years ago
reason is good.
so is feeling.
and just being.
windham666 3 years ago
Interesting video but I think a naive argument.
"Reasoning, **when properly applied**, leads to conclusions that are difficult to deny." How does one know that reasoning is being properly applied?
Inductive reasoning can lead to incorrect conclusions. For example, because native European swans are white, Europeans concluded using inductive reasoning that all swans were white. I was only discovering in 1790 a breed of black swan native to Australia that showed them to be wrong.
EvilUmpire 3 years ago
Prior to 1790, a European who believed that black swans existed without grounds for that belief would still have been factually correct despite having no evidence to support their belief.
EvilUmpire 3 years ago
@EvilUmpire: I think we all understand that the folly of logic and reasoning are those things that lie outside our realm of understanding. We have to make certain assumptions to get anywhere, and I'll call them assumptions since nothing is 100% infallible.
djmccormick 3 years ago
nice scarf. you look FAAAAABULOUS!
DethFromAbv 3 years ago 4
lol.
58694003 3 years ago 3
oh you, teehee!
sy1234 3 years ago
Quick and easy answer:
You believe in reason because you're not trying to manipulate someone else and you don't like to be manipulated.
It's easier to controll people by lying to them.
Scrapheap71 3 years ago 3
sooooooo true that is why i believe in fsm (flying spaghetti monster)
fattyJNL 3 years ago
The problem is, many do not know *how* to reason, or it they do, they do not use their reason with any consistancy. Many do not understand the methodology that must be employed when using reason - frankly, it is work - and many seek truth by taking the path of least resistance. Also, one who uses reason is called 'closed minded' by those who think that truths can come by means other than reasoned skepticism - and who wants to carry that tag around with them?
HeIsSailing 3 years ago
Just a thought of the top of my head...
By rejecting reasoning you dont have to group up. Denying reasoning allows you to remain a child in your mind. Some people just dont want to group up.
SuperFlyNB 3 years ago
I once talked to a guy (Purushadasa on YouTube) who said that he had "observable data" for his belief. Of course this "observable data" was nothing else than just belief. When I pointed this out for him he started calling me stupid.
It's true what you say. Some peoples greatest fear are reasoning.
Marduk379 3 years ago
But they'd be hypocrites if they reasoned their fear of reason. At least you can give them their consistancy in that regard.
Demonaphia 3 years ago
Yeah, but...that scarf DEFIES ALL REASON!
;)
BionicDance 3 years ago 3