correct me if I'm wrong, but you affirm the infallibility of councils, but not that of the Pope? and the Pope was explicitly declared infallible at a council..so why don't you accept that?
But the Roman Catholic Church did establish in detail their authority and reason for it as well as their beliefs from the beginning. So, to say that they did dot is false.
The eastern orthodox church came from this exact problem it was part of the Roman Catholic Church, but later broke off due to a wording issue in the creed. That is why Pope John Paul II tried his entire papacy to reunite the churches not just recognize them and also why Catholics can attend an eastern orthodox mass and receive the host there. Something Catholics are under no circumstances allowed to do at any other church.
I hate to break it to this "priest" or anyone else but to be a catholic priest you must recognize the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church and not this "Old Catholic Church". You can call yourself whatever you like but if you are not a roman catholic you are not catholic. At one time they may have been allowed to run themselves but that's probably because in the early church once the faith spread so far it took a long time to travel from rome to the edges of the Catholic Church.
We are seeking individuals for Ordination into the Orthodox Catholic Church World Wide Orthodox Catholic Ministry. The Sovereign Order of O.C.C. is a worldwide, lay, diplomatic religious order which seeks to glorify the Creator by promoting the sanctification of each member through his or her work with the sick and the poor and witness of the faith and to protect The Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Our words should be like bread handed out to the poor, that should never be quenched. I find it very depressing that when a Catholic tries to prove their validity. If you disagree you get this cold bitter response. It's not the response of someone who's trying to win you over. If you catch what I'm saying. This is from my expirience trying to explain the contrast between the Words of the bible and the Catholic relgious practices. "You shall know them by their fruits"Matt7:16 Jesus used kindness
Father Nathan, I am not trying to be rude in any way. I apologize if this comes across that way.
Where in the Bible does it permit us to pray to Mary, or God forbid, bow down to a statue of her?
Why do you insist on having a part in your salvation when the Bible clearly states that it is not of ourselves?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus payed the full price for your sins? Think about that for a second. Do you really believe it? Do you FULLY trust Him as your Savior and your ONLY hope?
@weareabreedofdirt I am sorry for butting in but I couldn't help notice that your very polite and valid questions do not seem to have been answered. Possibly Fr. Nathan has been very busy. I detect a Christlike spirit from you. May I have the opportunity to try to answer your questions? I am also an Old Catholic Priest. I am known as Fr. Hans.
Again, I apologize if I come across as arrogant or rude. Please know that I still do see many Catholics as my brothers and sisters in Christ, and I don't doubt at all that both you and Fr. Nathan are indeed saved.
@weareabreedofdirt Dear Weareabreedofdirt. As I said, I detected a polite and Christlike spirit from you, Thank you for your comment. Indeed as an old Catholic Priest the only one I am trusting for my salvation is our Lord Jesus Christ and with Mary the mother of our Lord I can say: "My spirit doth rejoice in God my Saviour"! There are possibly millions of Catholics who have not responded to the Gospel, but millions have such as Fr. Nathan. John 3:14-16,17! God bless you.
Only Christ is infaoulable let Alone He is the Way And nobody comes to me unless drawn by the Father.We are all the Body there are no denominations for if there be denominations then what we claim would be other than the Family of GOD.Just by calling youreself a catholic prodestant or anything other than a Son of GOD makes you outside the Body of Christ.Constantine combined Pagan traditions with christianity this is unacceptable to the Body of Christ nor is having statues and idols.
Im from original CHURCH OF THE EAST (ASSYRIAN) and still today in all our church has no idols or any images inside; including not having jesus on the cross.
Google church of the east and learn your past and why romans splitted from church at 325 AD; power and money!!!
@MenechemShaul - Christian means "little Christs", or those who followed Christ as the Son of God. Therefore, it is impossible that Jews are Christians, because they do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. I have many Jewish friends, and none of them would say they are true Christians. Also, Jesus said "for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink." He also went into detail on how many would disagree and part their own ways. So, learn more about the Bible and your own religion, too.
Dear One, I am a Seventh-day Adventist. I noticed on one comment you said that God commanded the Hebrews to worship statues. It may say that He commanded them concerning statutes. which are like rules applying to the Ten Commandments. Thank you. PS. Check out the books The Great Controversy and Early Writings. These may be seen and purchased on ellenwhiteestate. organization.
The point to remember about the Old Catholic Church is not if it is "valid" or not. It is if the Bishops of an area are created to fulfill an NEED of a preexisting population or are they created steaming from an EGO... With enough research one will find that nearly all "Old Catholic" denominations in the States have less than need based origins. Sadly, with zero checks and balanced of training- there is also a high rate of unreality! Also READ the classic: Bishops At Large by Peter Anson.
There is only one Catholic Church, that is the Roman Catholic Church and it dates back to the time of the apostles and it is the church that Jesus Christ instituded.
All this bull and I bet not a single one of you live as Christ would truly want you to. You waste far too much time on stupid crap and very little time improving your fruits.
@FatherNathan All That follow the Gospel are Sons of GOD no man is Head but Christ Jesus,And he said we are all eaqual and our body is the temple lest we fall back under the rule of the pharasies or Popes there is no differance.I will write my laws unto their hearts I will be their GOD and they will be my people.Hebrews 8 tells the new covanant and how it will be.And it resembles nothing of the old no big churches no fancy clothes we are now the temple and the Holy Spirit is in us the Body.
What is the difference between the Old Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic church. I am Catholic and I have never heard of the Old Catholic Church. There is only one Catholic Church, that is the Roman Catholic Church and it dates back to the time of the apostles and it is the church that Jesus Christ instituded.
How can a friday crucifixion make any sense?! Study Scripture, We read in Daniel 9 that the Messiah will be put to death and that the Scrifices will be put to an end in the Middle of the Week, in Mathew 12 Messiah Yeshua states that he will be in the Grave for three days and nights. There were two Sabbaths that week the Sabbath of unleavened bread and the Weekly Sabbat. so Tell me How does Good Friday Make any sense?
MenechemShaul ------ I think that your last post was VERY VERY VERY Unchristian of you { You will burn in hell! } where do you get of saying this to anyone... I think you need to say sorry to Father Nathen. And please refrain from making a ATTACK on someones faith. God Bless Fr Mark Paris {Old Catholic Priest from the UK }
@dieper2dieper People are subject to sin. ALL ppl are subject to sin. for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Roman 3:23. This is why one person cannot have infallibility. Like the pope. Now the bishops, are hold the same authority as the apostles. And just like the apostles, like we can see from scripture, they help govern, or try to govern how Christ Church is suppose to go.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Roman Catholic or not, you are still an Idol worshiper! Messiah taught Judaism not catholicism! The old Catholic church split after Vatican I and became the German/Old Catholic! I am an ex catholic (My birth mom is Jewish thus I am jewish, she was raped by a catholic seminarian and I was adopted and raised catholic) and it was by the hand of G-d that I am now living according to new Testament Judaism, the true Christian Church! You will burn in hell! Communion is a remembrance not the real body!
@MenechemShaul What an extremely hateful way to respond to a person. Even if I was interested in considering converting to what you believe, which I am not, that is no way to share it. Messianic Judaism is expressly forbidden in the Bible(Acts 15). God Himself told the Jewish people to make statues (Exodus 25:18) and He even told his people to look upon them for healing (Numbers 21:4). Its no wonder you reject the real presence (John 6:60).
@FatherNathan Stop twisting Scripture, John 6:60 is a symbolic teaching! I can send you proof via other sources if you are open, but you are not! Messianic Judaism is evident in the New Testament, this was and is the Original Church! You have Blasphemed the holy Spirit by twisting Scripture and thus You will burn in hell!
@FatherNathan Numbers 21:4 says "And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. " Wow.. I must convert to catholicism now.. nowhere does God tell us to pray for craven images. But forbids it. Think about it, are you trying to please Catholicism or God?
@FatherNathan Dear Fr. Nathan. Why even bother wasting your energy on people like @Menschen..etc! In his case, you are obviously casting your pearl before!?.. What our Lord Jesus said! He is indeed a soul for whom Christ also made an atonement, may Almighty God have mercy on him.
Um, a real adherent of Judaism doesn't recognize New Testament authority, nor would he recognize Jesus as Messiah unless he came back and performed all of the activities expected of a Messiah, just the same as any other claimant to Messiahship. Nonetheless, it's not nice to call people names, and it's not nice to claim that someone will "burn in hell".
@FatherNathan You again Nathan Are twisting Scripture! What was going on during the time of the Council of Jerusalem was the Judaizng and this is not what I am preaching! First Fruits of Zion, is a ministry that preaches this, not me! Explain to me why then that the Catechism of the Catholic Church states quite clearly that they are the ones who changed the Sabbath and not Sacred Scripture! You are twisting my words and the Word of God and have proven yourself to be a heretic!
@FatherNathan VIVA CONSTANTINE VIVA CONSTANTINE , the father and founder of the satanic roman catolic sect in the yr 313, and dont forget that constantine built the basilica of st peter for his roman sect
@MenechemShaul Why don't you give it a rest? You keep showing up and spewing the same old boring crap over and over. It really is getting tedious. It's the same old heresy over and over again ad nauseam. Why don't you spend that posting time in worship or something constructive?
@Gypsee1000 What heresy, provide me with evidence of this! the Church 'fathers' have had issues with Messianic Believers and it shows up in the works of Jerome! Furthermore in the Talmudic tracs as well as other Rabbinic literature from the era as well! You really do not know much about the topic you claim is tedious!You should get the book Early Jewish Believers in Jesus by Oskar Skarsaune & Reidar Havalik that look at the first Centuries of Messianic Judaism(Beginning with the time of Yeshua).
@MenechemShaul Actually the Old Catholic Church removed form the Roman church well before that , and as for the Eucharistic "Christ stated THIS IS MY BODY " thats pretty direct and not some mere idol
The problem with this group is that every one wants to be a Bishop, in there is no order every one is doing there own thing in inveting sometimes there own doctrine. Father you should call all serious Priest like your self I belive that it could change....Thank you for saying yes to Jesus!
Old Catholic Church is a Christian denomination originating with mainly groups that split from the Holy See in the 1870 because they disagreed with the solemn declaration of the doctrine of papal infallibility What they didnt understand it was only on
teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation But pretty much they copy the true church, but do not except the seat of Peter which Pope Benedict currently requires.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[1] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
The Bible says that we are supposed to move away from works of the Law. Messianic Jews still proscribe to the old customs of the Law. But we are supposed to live under the Law of Grace.
A question about married priests in the Old Catholic church. Do you just support the idea of married men being able to be ordained, as is done in the Eastern Orthodox faith and a few (Roman) Catholic rites?
Or do you support allowing someone who is already a priest to get married, as is done in post-Reformation faiths such as Anglicanism?
Yeah, the question's a little loaded. If you go with the second choice, maybe you can assume that I'd ask you for an explanatory follow-up? :-)
I can assure you that that is most certainly not the case with my congregation. And the same can be said for Roman Catholic Churches on an individual level.
Greetings Father Nathan. A question. According to the Porvoo communion the Anglican Church (among others) are in communion with among others the Church of Sweden. The Old catholic church is in communion with the Anglican Church. How about inter communion between the Church of Sweden and the Old catholic churches, and how about allowing single members of the Church of Sweden to receive the communion in the Old catholic church?
Most of those who term themselves Old Catholic these days are actually Wandering Bishops with multiple lines of succession.
I was consecrated into the Old Catholic Church, but I now sit very lightly on this. I would term myself Gnostic or Hermetic Catholic now as I have revised all of my beliefs.
Old Catholics have no religious orders: even the conservative Dutch have a prejudice against monasticism, which is associated in their minds with the "storm troops" of the Papacy. Confession to a priest is compulsory among the Orthodox but voluntary among Old Catholics. Old Catholics give complete freedom to female bishops, priests and deacons to marry before or after ordination or consecration. Old Catholicism is Protestant rationalism without mysticism. Every year numbers of adherents decline
Actually you are wrong. I am part of a religious society (order) of Celts with devotion to the teachings of St. Patrick and St. Aidan. Confession is not voluntary because it is one of the sacraments and a required sacrament in order to receive the Eucharist. Obviously any group that ordains woman is no longer Catholic and therefor has excommunicated itself for that heresy. Furthermore, mysticism is very much alive at the parish I pastor I can promise you that.
What you do not have is monasticism, you show me a celibate "old catholic" monk and I'll show you "Pope Joan". It was a mistake for me to use the word "religious order"
Your church does ordain women, so you seem to be saying that your own church is "no longer catholic". You are all illicit priests, in peril of eternal damnation. When (and if) your "celts" ever had permission to ordain bishops without papal permission you had no problem with Rome's teaching, but now that Rome says you can't .....you reject Rome?? Seems a little self serving. Come home to Rome!! The body of Christ awaits you!! Peace, love and joy!
In the North American Old Catholic Church, we have a Benedictine Order and a Jesuit Order, and we are affiliated with a Franciscan Order.
Clerical celibacy was only instituted by Rome in the 12th century to protect Church property and to prevent ministers from distracted from ministry. Before this, many priests and bishops were married.
We are not Protestant, because we believe that we are saved through the grace of God, received in the sacraments of the Church, and given life by faith.
And while you say that annually, adherents are falling, in our Church, membership is growing substantially.
We just received 2 full parishes and multiple clergy. Many seminarians, including myself, are preparing for Diaconal Ordination in the fall, and vocations are growing.
While membership may be down in the Churches you have seen, it is not in our Church, which is a fully-Catholic, fully-inclusive, community of believers continuing the traditions of our Early Church Fathers.
CIR229: Jesus is simple. Yes.. his mercy and love is THAT simple attain thru faith. but the wisdom of God is not that simple becoz if its THAT simple he is not God anymore..this proves he is All-knowing and a Mystery. if historian a liar Christian faith are in great danger.. but it continues for 2000 years affirmed by 'all' Catholic and Orthodox worldwide. Baptism is the first step to be born again..its in the Bible man..
CIR229: thats another faux! more than 90% of the early Christian are illiterate and cannot read greeks, hebrews or even latin. so people who cannot read the bible are doom to hell? LOL! faith works thru preaching and preaching the Word of God which passed thru the disciples and successor of the Apostles.. and yes im not Roman Cath. im juz Catholic.
CIR229: thats a faux. christ did not command to send or to write any New testament writings.. he command to PREACH the good news to what the apostles and their successor have been instructed orally. thats why the Holy Spirit descend in the form of tongues during Holy Pentecost not 'books'.. you're funny.
CIR229: wow, u are the first "so-called" follower of says to another Christian that they're not brother.. LOL! well, brother there are many Christ nowadays.. but which Christ u refering to? likewise there are many gods in the world religion..but which god you refering to.. and you pick and choose the verse you like..
The Church I belong to is 2000 years old because it was founded by Jesus Christ.
I didn't call the commandments Christ gave slang I said that you interpretation of that scripture is based upon a vantage point using a slang term to define it.
You still haven't answered my question about the Bible.
Secondly, it is baptism. You can not prove to me that historically Christians believed what you are saying. The term "water breaking" or people believing that it was water is a slag term. Its actually amniotic fluid which is completely different. You are equating a modern understand to ancient text and it doesn't apply.
Can you prove thats the historical understanding of that scripture?
There is only one Christ and that is the Christ of Scripture whom I believe in and trust. I understand when the books were written. I'm asking you when they were compiled and canonized as the books of the Bible. Who decided that?
Hi Father Nathan, just reading some of these comments. God bless you and remember, if you hold the sword of truth by the handle, you are obligated to use it. Drive on!
Right... and who decided the canon of scripture? who preserved the books of the bible? where do the earliest manuscripts come from that the bible is translated from?
no brother you miss the historical line. Catholic Orthodox Church does not create the bible.. they COMPILED it into a thick book. so its the Universal Church give birth to the Bible we are holding now. NOT the written words.. for the Church is the protectress of the written Word of Almighty.
Father Nathan I like I said before I enjoy leaning new things especially in relation with Christ's Church . You said that the councils had infaliblity before Vatican I not the pope and When the pope declared himself infallible he in esense denied the infallibility of the councils however was it not the council (Vatican I ) that declared the pope infallible not the pope himself btw papal infalibility only refers to doctrine of Faith and morals and only when speaking ex cathedra please clarify
I have of course prayed about this. However, there is very little different from the EO and OC other then its very Western mindset. I am simply far more western in my liturgical practices. Whereas I have a great love for the Eastern Church and have numerous Eastern Orthodox priest friends I do not feel that it is the right jurisdictional fit for me as living out my priestly vocation.
Dear father, I'm working towards my ordination in the Old Catholic heritage. Its something of which I'm very proud. Thank you for your excellent posting.
Do not try to defend yourself or our faith to those who are determined to tear either down. You can not win that kind of argument with someone who is not open of mind. If you have been ordained by a valid OC Bishop in proper Apostolic Succession, than you are a Priest forever.
We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Even under the normal conditions this does not fall under doctrine that any Catholic has to believe as infallible. A not to mention this Bull was written before the declaration of Papal infallibility. Not to mention how can you say that under the new canon it says that Eastern Orthodox Christians are saved and can receive the Eucharist. Doesn't this contradict Pope Boniface VII? This is the issue with Papal Supremacy and Infallibility...its the only part of the face that contradicts itself.
it is not so in early Christian and Orthodox teachings. it is not our Lord's command. its like listening to a Muslim saying those who does not obey Muhammad will perish in hell...LOL!!!
Hello Father, I am a Roman Catholic specifically of the Syrian (Syro-Malabar) Rite. My question is, are you basically the same as Roman Catholics except that you don't believe in taking the Pope (Pope Benedict) as the Pope b/c of the infallible issue? I would like to learn more, b/c I never knew about this situation. I'll study some more on this as well while I wait for your answer. Thank you Father!
There are no Eastern Rite parishes in our diocese however I do know of a few Eastern Rite congregations through out the US. I'll try and find some websites and such for you.
Interesting video. I didn 't realize that Old Catholics had a history centuries before Vatican I. Your views on the Primacy of Rome sounds quite orthodox to me. Being a former Latin Catholic, and having attended Eastern Catholic churches before becoming Orthodox, I can say that, while there are external similarities, there also are significant differences in approach.
Do Old Catholics recite the filioque in the Creed?
What most people don't understand is that most of what they consider to be long standing Western traditions within the Catholic Church are mostly post Vatican I such as certain teachings on the Theotokos and the papacy. The Old Catholic Church feels very similar in many teachings to a Western Orthodox church. As far as the filioque Western rite Old Catholic Churches use it in the creed where as Eastern rite Old Catholics do not.
Does it matter where your from? Because if you do not observe the seventh day Sabbath as taught by the Adventists, then, you are not in the body of Christ. Full Stop.
Amazing the amount of anger and hatred I see from, what should be brothers/sisters in Christ. I am a former Roman Catholic and I have absolutely no ill feelings toward the church, nor do I consider Catholics heretics. The centrality of salvation lies Christ and His atoning/finished and sacrifice on the cross. I pray that you would let go of your narrow belief in what "The Church" is. I see a modern day movement of Pharisees, that hinder non-believers from entering the Kingdom of God. Lk 11:37-54
christianity is not re-created nor re-reform. it is an inheritance which we receives from the Apostles and their successor. those who baptized with Christ can inherit salvation. but which Christ you follow? the bible's or the Apostles'? a buddhist who accept Christ also believe they will go to heaven.. Roman is not the only One True Church. Pope is not necessary for salvation. Catholicism is not a Church but its the way of life. if you wanna talk about TRUTH lets refer to the Orthodox Catholic.
There are scores of 'churches' which refer to themselves as 'old Catholic', most have extremely 'liberal' views, a few do not and some encourage a 'cafeteria' Christianity. Most pretend that there is unity within 'old Catholicism' which is totally untrue. Some have more 'bishops' than church buildings. It is mostly a way to enable people to describe themselves as 'catholic' priests or bishops. The original old Catholic church became a part of the Anglican/Episcopalian church in early 1900's
There are plenty of liberal churches within Rome as well. Don't act as if just because it has "Roman" as its prefix that its pure and such. I could send you scores of Roman Catholic Churches under Roman Catholic bishops that have openly gay clergy or or promoted Obama or abortion. You act as if you can disregard Church history so quickly.
As you have stated yourself, the validity of the claims of the Catholic Church (what you would prefix 'Roman') are entirely unconnected to the behaviour of some individual members who may, if the have strayed sufficiently, be self-excommunicated. There is one Holy Catholic Church and you are either in communion with it or not. You are not.
But that completely contradicts the Roman teaching on the Eastern Orthodox Churches which while not in perfect communion are still recognized as "particular" churches.
The Roman Catholic Communion is a communion of Churches. There are 23 sui iurus Churches in the Catholic Communion, the largest being the Latin Church. The Latin Church acknowledges that the Orthodox have true sacraments--which means a true Eucharist--and the Orthodox Churches are understood to be true Churches. The Orthodox do not give communion to those who are not Orthodox.
Which is very Orthodox of them. Historically you couldn't receive the Eucharist at any parish that wasn't your own unless you received a letter from the Bishop. Not to mention I don't know why that is insulting to Roman Catholics considering you will not give Communion to anyone who isn't Catholic on your terms either.
Right but how can they be the "One" true church if the Orthodox Churches, not in communion with Rome, are also considered true particular churches by the Bishop of Rome and according to your Canons? The two great schisms in the Church, the East and the West, and the Old and the New, happened over the issues of the papacy taking more power then he historically deserves.
And you are taking more power than you have the right to. A Catholic priest has studied long and hard to acquire the title, you seem a little reluctant to specify your own qualifications to give yourself that title. Let's be clear, I , myself, could easily get ordained by one of the thousand of extra-catholic claimants to Apostolic succession tomorrow and go around calling myself a 'Catholic' priest and pretend to administer sacraments. It wouldn't make me a priest.
I could sit here and continue to debate this subject with you until I'm blue in the face but obviously nothing I say will convince you otherwise. In order to be ordained you have have proper form, intention and Apostolic succession. The seminary program is not Biblical and a based on a reaction to the reformation. However, I did study at a bishops school which is the most Ancient form of priestly formation.
If there are "thousands" of extra-catholic groups as you put it. I am unaware of them. What I do know is that Rome has viewed and validated our lines of succession and that one of our Bishops teaches at a Roman Catholic seminary once a year in Italy and is invited to celebrate the Mass along with the Roman bishops. You can think what you want but the more you say the more it shows how little you know.
Mr Monk, I have discovered that I can receive illicit, though valid, orders from one of the very many old 'catholic' bishops by attending an interview and paying a (fairly substantial) fee - certificate and everything. Is this Simony?
Well, first off what supposed Old Catholic bishop are you speaking of? Is he part of any jurisdiction and how do you know his orders are valid at all? Judging by what you say that would be simony but I do not know what the entire context of the situation is. I mean would you say that having to pay tuition to a Roman Catholic seminary is simony?
Also, I should mention that I've never paid a single penny to my bishop or diocese for any training, certificate or anything else. So if that is what you are accusing me of then you are extremely mistaken. Also, don't patronize me by calling me "Mr." you might not like the "illicit" nature of my orders but they are valid. If you don't want to call me Father or Reverend you can simply call me Nathan. I've worked to hard towards the priesthood to be called mister.
Nathan, I have no idea what your qualifications might be, if you recall you implied that it was none of my business. However there are 'bishops' out there claiming valid orders (like yourself) who appear to be willing not only to sell valid ordination but even tell you how much to charge for a funeral and what sort of living you can make. Just google a few 'old catholic' sites - it's out there. I have no idea whether his own ordination is valid but he makes claims much like your own.
dang! just as the orthodox have a lot to argue with the Roman theologically it doesnt effect the validity nor their jurisdictions. you have no rights to question Fr.Nathan validity! spread and examine your bishops and Fr.Nathan's apostolic succession. what an insult to the Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church. so was Roman Church invalid just becoz Pope JP II kissed the moslem Quran? settle your Novus Ordo issue first or quit spitting at Old Catholicism. Pax in Christe!
I have every right to question the validity of his orders. There are scores of 'old catholic' organisations out there. Nathan seems to belong to an organisation which includes the whole range of Christian beliefs from 1 extreme to the other.I can set up an 'old catholic' church and get myself 'ordained' by someone who can 'prove' that their own ordination is valid. This is not a recommendation it is the opposite - to use the authority of the Church for one purpose and deny it for all others
hierarchically who gave u the right? does st.peter really care whether you belong to Roman, Eastern Orthodox, Old Catholic or Anglican Church? i know what you mean, there even OC bishop who ordained and organized a freemason movement in Church. this is sad but why question Fr.Nathan? havent you heard of charismatic chaos and so many organization in RC itself? another thing does St.Peter really care of being the Prince of Apostles? he could saved himself and reign pope but he chose martyr..pax!
You're right, I have no right personally to pronounce on anything pertaining to religion, that is reserved to the ONE, Holy, Apostolic Catholic Church of which I am a member, unlike Nathan.
well i cant make assumption on that yet coz i havent know which jurisdiction of Old/Independent Catholic he belongs to. well, in RC theology those who separated themselves from the Pope is not belongs the Catholic Church... so sad coz the SSPX and the 'sedevacantist-catholic' is not in communion with the present Bishop of Rome. but what makes them still valid?
Interesting; I didn't realize you weren't an actual Catholic priest. In spite of your heresy, your pro-life opinions seem orthodox, and your work in that area is admirable. I thank you for your work there and hope it will continue. I'll continue to pray that you come that last little step and mature to full union with Rome. Such willful disunity harms all of Christ's people.
Dear Father, Thank you for your Video explaining the Old Catholic / Old Roman Catholic position. I am just curious as to which jurisdiction you belong to. Are you a priest within the Old Catholic Church of America for instance? With best wishes.
I consider myself more of Roman Catholic with an Old Catholic view, because it seems that the Old catholic is the church of 7 councils, the 4 ancient Patriarchates etc and specially the First among equals, the Pope
Well, there are Catholics who are not Roman Catholics that are in union with the Pope. There are several rites of Catholicism that differ in minor matters of church disciplines but are in full communion with Rome. The "Old Catholics" are not such a rite and are not true Catholics as the term us usually understood. Like the Orthodox, they have most fundamental beliefs in common but reject the teaching authority of the Pope, something they have in common with Protestantism.
Hi. I am a traditional Roman Catholic. I have a question. So from what I understood from your video, the Pope at one time or another actually gave this Diocese of Utrecht or whatever it's officially called (I'm not sure) their own power to elect their own Bishops? I don't understand why the Pope would allow that. Could you explain? Thanks!
I am a traditional Catholic as well. The Bishop of Rome, Eugene III, gave authority to the Cathedral Chapter of Utrecht the right to elect its own bishops at the request of Bishop Heribert of Utrecht and the Holy Roman Emperor. This was to do mainly with the autonomous nature that the Church in the Netherlands has sustained since St. Willibrord first bought Catholicism to it in 696.
Hi thanks for explaining. You do it better than some Old Cath Priests who practically accuse the Pope & Roman Caths of being heretics cause the Old Cath view doesn't agree with a doctrine. We're supposed to be bro's & sisters in Christ. I'm Roman Cath & trying to understand why I get hated for my faith by other "Christians". I believe God is the same yest. today & tom. His Church has the same nature. But how exactly is St Peter's successor suppossed to feed Christ's sheep & not on bread alone?
No offense... but could you liven it up a bit. I keep snoring. By the way, I know my History. I'm aware of the murder,rape & enslavery of Incans & Myans, the "Indulgences" (certificates sold to guarantee no hell)the forcing of conversion, and mixing of Christ with money & gain, etc... It's one sick religion.
The reliance on relics, the selling of ministries, the way the catholic religion forced themselves on people, decided who were witches and killed them, called the shots on how people had to live....
That being said... would you lump all black people together since we all know they own guns and sell drugs and are pimps right? Or how about Jews?... they are all rich. And don't get me started on the Hispanics and lawn services. And in case you can't tell I'm being sarcastic. Obviously we can't lump people in because of the "sins of the fathers" so how dare you lump all Catholics in with your desperate attempt to throw all of "christian" history on us.
Saying no offense before an offensive statement weakens your point. You should have conviction in your offensiveness and simply say what you think instead of hiding behind some vain attempt and being polite because of some hyped up social standard. Have the self dignity to say what you think without masking it.
I never said that the Eastern Orthodox Churches where similar in the sense of liturgy, cultural practices or discipline. However, the Eastern Orthodox Churches are part of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church and so in that sense we are very much the same.
Fr. Nathan, thank you for ALL you views. You're awesome! Keep your videos coming. I wish you the best in your journey.
Phil1045 2 weeks ago
correct me if I'm wrong, but you affirm the infallibility of councils, but not that of the Pope? and the Pope was explicitly declared infallible at a council..so why don't you accept that?
chromecrescent 2 weeks ago
But the Roman Catholic Church did establish in detail their authority and reason for it as well as their beliefs from the beginning. So, to say that they did dot is false.
JohnDoe4612 3 weeks ago
The eastern orthodox church came from this exact problem it was part of the Roman Catholic Church, but later broke off due to a wording issue in the creed. That is why Pope John Paul II tried his entire papacy to reunite the churches not just recognize them and also why Catholics can attend an eastern orthodox mass and receive the host there. Something Catholics are under no circumstances allowed to do at any other church.
JohnDoe4612 3 weeks ago
I hate to break it to this "priest" or anyone else but to be a catholic priest you must recognize the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church and not this "Old Catholic Church". You can call yourself whatever you like but if you are not a roman catholic you are not catholic. At one time they may have been allowed to run themselves but that's probably because in the early church once the faith spread so far it took a long time to travel from rome to the edges of the Catholic Church.
JohnDoe4612 3 weeks ago
As a non-Catholic what you just said made logical sense. It was clear. Thanks for the information.
PierzStyx 1 month ago
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christorthodox 3 months ago
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Our words should be like bread handed out to the poor, that should never be quenched. I find it very depressing that when a Catholic tries to prove their validity. If you disagree you get this cold bitter response. It's not the response of someone who's trying to win you over. If you catch what I'm saying. This is from my expirience trying to explain the contrast between the Words of the bible and the Catholic relgious practices. "You shall know them by their fruits"Matt7:16 Jesus used kindness
soulsurcher 8 months ago
Father Nathan, I am not trying to be rude in any way. I apologize if this comes across that way.
Where in the Bible does it permit us to pray to Mary, or God forbid, bow down to a statue of her?
Why do you insist on having a part in your salvation when the Bible clearly states that it is not of ourselves?
Do you REALLY believe that Jesus payed the full price for your sins? Think about that for a second. Do you really believe it? Do you FULLY trust Him as your Savior and your ONLY hope?
weareabreedofdirt 9 months ago
@weareabreedofdirt I am sorry for butting in but I couldn't help notice that your very polite and valid questions do not seem to have been answered. Possibly Fr. Nathan has been very busy. I detect a Christlike spirit from you. May I have the opportunity to try to answer your questions? I am also an Old Catholic Priest. I am known as Fr. Hans.
frbjoernLA 5 months ago
@frbjoernLA
Yes sir, by all means.
Again, I apologize if I come across as arrogant or rude. Please know that I still do see many Catholics as my brothers and sisters in Christ, and I don't doubt at all that both you and Fr. Nathan are indeed saved.
weareabreedofdirt 5 months ago
@weareabreedofdirt Dear Weareabreedofdirt. As I said, I detected a polite and Christlike spirit from you, Thank you for your comment. Indeed as an old Catholic Priest the only one I am trusting for my salvation is our Lord Jesus Christ and with Mary the mother of our Lord I can say: "My spirit doth rejoice in God my Saviour"! There are possibly millions of Catholics who have not responded to the Gospel, but millions have such as Fr. Nathan. John 3:14-16,17! God bless you.
frbjoernLA 5 months ago
Only Christ is infaoulable let Alone He is the Way And nobody comes to me unless drawn by the Father.We are all the Body there are no denominations for if there be denominations then what we claim would be other than the Family of GOD.Just by calling youreself a catholic prodestant or anything other than a Son of GOD makes you outside the Body of Christ.Constantine combined Pagan traditions with christianity this is unacceptable to the Body of Christ nor is having statues and idols.
korzon 11 months ago
Ahhhhh
majewskproductions 1 year ago
Im from original CHURCH OF THE EAST (ASSYRIAN) and still today in all our church has no idols or any images inside; including not having jesus on the cross.
Google church of the east and learn your past and why romans splitted from church at 325 AD; power and money!!!
assyrianphd 1 year ago
@assyrianphd I pray you be safe there I heard we have been persicuted there.
korzon 11 months ago
YOu are on my Facebook :-)
ljmuncy09 1 year ago
@MenechemShaul - Christian means "little Christs", or those who followed Christ as the Son of God. Therefore, it is impossible that Jews are Christians, because they do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. I have many Jewish friends, and none of them would say they are true Christians. Also, Jesus said "for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink." He also went into detail on how many would disagree and part their own ways. So, learn more about the Bible and your own religion, too.
audreypaudrey212 1 year ago
Dear One, I am a Seventh-day Adventist. I noticed on one comment you said that God commanded the Hebrews to worship statues. It may say that He commanded them concerning statutes. which are like rules applying to the Ten Commandments. Thank you. PS. Check out the books The Great Controversy and Early Writings. These may be seen and purchased on ellenwhiteestate. organization.
bornbythesea 1 year ago
Is that a wedding ring on your finger? Are Old Catholic priests allowed to marry?
RadicalWhig 1 year ago
The point to remember about the Old Catholic Church is not if it is "valid" or not. It is if the Bishops of an area are created to fulfill an NEED of a preexisting population or are they created steaming from an EGO... With enough research one will find that nearly all "Old Catholic" denominations in the States have less than need based origins. Sadly, with zero checks and balanced of training- there is also a high rate of unreality! Also READ the classic: Bishops At Large by Peter Anson.
CorpusHermeticum 1 year ago
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There is only one Catholic Church, that is the Roman Catholic Church and it dates back to the time of the apostles and it is the church that Jesus Christ instituded.
ecv03 1 year ago
All this bull and I bet not a single one of you live as Christ would truly want you to. You waste far too much time on stupid crap and very little time improving your fruits.
RangerRob2009 1 year ago
@umhalil We believe the Church was commissioned by Christ as He ascended to the Father.
FatherNathan 1 year ago
@FatherNathan All That follow the Gospel are Sons of GOD no man is Head but Christ Jesus,And he said we are all eaqual and our body is the temple lest we fall back under the rule of the pharasies or Popes there is no differance.I will write my laws unto their hearts I will be their GOD and they will be my people.Hebrews 8 tells the new covanant and how it will be.And it resembles nothing of the old no big churches no fancy clothes we are now the temple and the Holy Spirit is in us the Body.
korzon 11 months ago
What is the difference between the Old Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic church. I am Catholic and I have never heard of the Old Catholic Church. There is only one Catholic Church, that is the Roman Catholic Church and it dates back to the time of the apostles and it is the church that Jesus Christ instituded.
sarahmcc28 1 year ago
How can a friday crucifixion make any sense?! Study Scripture, We read in Daniel 9 that the Messiah will be put to death and that the Scrifices will be put to an end in the Middle of the Week, in Mathew 12 Messiah Yeshua states that he will be in the Grave for three days and nights. There were two Sabbaths that week the Sabbath of unleavened bread and the Weekly Sabbat. so Tell me How does Good Friday Make any sense?
MenechemShaul 1 year ago
MenechemShaul ------ I think that your last post was VERY VERY VERY Unchristian of you { You will burn in hell! } where do you get of saying this to anyone... I think you need to say sorry to Father Nathen. And please refrain from making a ATTACK on someones faith. God Bless Fr Mark Paris {Old Catholic Priest from the UK }
Revd0280 1 year ago
so, why did the vatican terrorise europe in the dark ages ?
why did the vatican sponsor hitler into power ?
why do they keep raping children ?
dieper2dieper 1 year ago
@dieper2dieper People are subject to sin. ALL ppl are subject to sin. for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Roman 3:23. This is why one person cannot have infallibility. Like the pope. Now the bishops, are hold the same authority as the apostles. And just like the apostles, like we can see from scripture, they help govern, or try to govern how Christ Church is suppose to go.
ephenderson 1 year ago
@dieper2dieper people were corrupt in the dark ages
oneonta310 5 months ago
@oneonta310
Are you saying people now are not?
LVCIVSDEI 2 months ago
@LVCIVSDEI i guess not
oneonta310 2 months ago
@oneonta310
The whole financial crisis proves we are more corrupt than ever.............
LVCIVSDEI 2 months ago
Bravo, This is by far one of the best descriptions I have heard in a while. Keep up the great work.
+Michael Papierski
mapapierski 1 year ago
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Roman Catholic or not, you are still an Idol worshiper! Messiah taught Judaism not catholicism! The old Catholic church split after Vatican I and became the German/Old Catholic! I am an ex catholic (My birth mom is Jewish thus I am jewish, she was raped by a catholic seminarian and I was adopted and raised catholic) and it was by the hand of G-d that I am now living according to new Testament Judaism, the true Christian Church! You will burn in hell! Communion is a remembrance not the real body!
MenechemShaul 1 year ago
@MenechemShaul What an extremely hateful way to respond to a person. Even if I was interested in considering converting to what you believe, which I am not, that is no way to share it. Messianic Judaism is expressly forbidden in the Bible(Acts 15). God Himself told the Jewish people to make statues (Exodus 25:18) and He even told his people to look upon them for healing (Numbers 21:4). Its no wonder you reject the real presence (John 6:60).
FatherNathan 1 year ago 3
@FatherNathan Stop twisting Scripture, John 6:60 is a symbolic teaching! I can send you proof via other sources if you are open, but you are not! Messianic Judaism is evident in the New Testament, this was and is the Original Church! You have Blasphemed the holy Spirit by twisting Scripture and thus You will burn in hell!
MenechemShaul 1 year ago
@FatherNathan Numbers 21:4 says "And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. " Wow.. I must convert to catholicism now.. nowhere does God tell us to pray for craven images. But forbids it. Think about it, are you trying to please Catholicism or God?
Sanosuke18 1 year ago
@FatherNathan Dear Fr. Nathan. Why even bother wasting your energy on people like @Menschen..etc! In his case, you are obviously casting your pearl before!?.. What our Lord Jesus said! He is indeed a soul for whom Christ also made an atonement, may Almighty God have mercy on him.
frbjoern 1 year ago
@FatherNathan
(and MenachemShaul, too)
Um, a real adherent of Judaism doesn't recognize New Testament authority, nor would he recognize Jesus as Messiah unless he came back and performed all of the activities expected of a Messiah, just the same as any other claimant to Messiahship. Nonetheless, it's not nice to call people names, and it's not nice to claim that someone will "burn in hell".
Rickyrab 1 year ago
@FatherNathan You again Nathan Are twisting Scripture! What was going on during the time of the Council of Jerusalem was the Judaizng and this is not what I am preaching! First Fruits of Zion, is a ministry that preaches this, not me! Explain to me why then that the Catechism of the Catholic Church states quite clearly that they are the ones who changed the Sabbath and not Sacred Scripture! You are twisting my words and the Word of God and have proven yourself to be a heretic!
MenechemShaul 1 year ago
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@FatherNathan VIVA CONSTANTINE VIVA CONSTANTINE , the father and founder of the satanic roman catolic sect in the yr 313, and dont forget that constantine built the basilica of st peter for his roman sect
hamlets7 5 months ago
@MenechemShaul Why don't you give it a rest? You keep showing up and spewing the same old boring crap over and over. It really is getting tedious. It's the same old heresy over and over again ad nauseam. Why don't you spend that posting time in worship or something constructive?
Gypsee1000 1 year ago
@Gypsee1000 What heresy, provide me with evidence of this! the Church 'fathers' have had issues with Messianic Believers and it shows up in the works of Jerome! Furthermore in the Talmudic tracs as well as other Rabbinic literature from the era as well! You really do not know much about the topic you claim is tedious!You should get the book Early Jewish Believers in Jesus by Oskar Skarsaune & Reidar Havalik that look at the first Centuries of Messianic Judaism(Beginning with the time of Yeshua).
MenechemShaul 1 year ago
@MenechemShaul Actually the Old Catholic Church removed form the Roman church well before that , and as for the Eucharistic "Christ stated THIS IS MY BODY " thats pretty direct and not some mere idol
77Apostle 1 year ago
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Gregroix 1 year ago
grow up
janhjohansson 1 year ago
That is so sad! Another split, along with King Henry the 8th and Martin Luther. God have mercy.
peacefulvines 1 year ago
schismatic at best.
pickledpork 2 years ago
The problem with this group is that every one wants to be a Bishop, in there is no order every one is doing there own thing in inveting sometimes there own doctrine. Father you should call all serious Priest like your self I belive that it could change....Thank you for saying yes to Jesus!
jesse918824 2 years ago
Old Catholic Church is a Christian denomination originating with mainly groups that split from the Holy See in the 1870 because they disagreed with the solemn declaration of the doctrine of papal infallibility What they didnt understand it was only on
teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation But pretty much they copy the true church, but do not except the seat of Peter which Pope Benedict currently requires.
hanley92 2 years ago
When all said and done, this is the year of the Priest.
Thank you Father Nathan for being priest. +
Hkepfer 2 years ago
are you from the old or new pedophile whore church??
rock9711 2 years ago
@rock9711 What is this supposed to even mean? As in whats your point?
FatherNathan 2 years ago
@rock9711
All you can do is resort to name calling and accusations and you'll demonstrate this point, again.
TenderTrap86 2 years ago
@TenderTrap86 I haven't made any accusations or called any names. I'm just curious what your point is.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
Is it to hard to understand that I was speaking to rock9711? After all, I wrote "@rock9711" before my comment.
TenderTrap86 2 years ago
@TenderTrap86 I'm sorry I just got confused.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
I understand. It happens. A Merry Christmas to you.
TenderTrap86 2 years ago
@rock9711 yo mama.
DavidVelezPerez 2 years ago
What are the views of the Old Catholic Church on the Eucharist?
tyrantslayer999 2 years ago
sounds like a false gentile religious system to me that does not lead to Salvation or (circumcision of the heart).
just another branch of the Harlot system, I would come out of it and repent from a genuine heart until you receive Grace from ADONAI.
and look into the teachings and ways of worship of the Messianic Jews!
Christian3269 2 years ago
@Christian3269
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[1] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
The Bible says that we are supposed to move away from works of the Law. Messianic Jews still proscribe to the old customs of the Law. But we are supposed to live under the Law of Grace.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Christian3269 2 years ago
Nathan, you are taking one verse here my friend and making a statement..
you are a teacher..
are you sure that is correct?
do you think there is a Grace process involved?
what about the Jews who don't know their own Messiah?
what about the Gentiles who do not know the Jewish Messiah?
WHY WAS THE GOSPEL PREACHED THEN AND STILL IS TODAY?
a one verse comment doesn't cut it Nat! There is more to it, much more...
Christian3269 2 years ago
But after all the explanations and little use of Infallibility, isn't there a better understanding of what is and what it is not?
Hkepfer 2 years ago
i am roman, catholic and proud.
oakking1 2 years ago
Hey! I'm a priest and a king. Thank you Lord!
seahawkers101 2 years ago
A question about married priests in the Old Catholic church. Do you just support the idea of married men being able to be ordained, as is done in the Eastern Orthodox faith and a few (Roman) Catholic rites?
Or do you support allowing someone who is already a priest to get married, as is done in post-Reformation faiths such as Anglicanism?
Yeah, the question's a little loaded. If you go with the second choice, maybe you can assume that I'd ask you for an explanatory follow-up? :-)
BaronGrackle 2 years ago
I can assure you that that is most certainly not the case with my congregation. And the same can be said for Roman Catholic Churches on an individual level.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
If that is the case that is good. You did not answer my question a month ago?
karpov89 2 years ago
Greetings Father Nathan,
tq for this video which gives a clear understanding of the Old Catholic Church..
as a matter of curiosity,
what is the pyhsical difference between the Old and the Roman Catholic Church?
(eg, sign of the Cross, adoration of Mary, holy water)
branshayne 2 years ago
Greetings Father Nathan. A question. According to the Porvoo communion the Anglican Church (among others) are in communion with among others the Church of Sweden. The Old catholic church is in communion with the Anglican Church. How about inter communion between the Church of Sweden and the Old catholic churches, and how about allowing single members of the Church of Sweden to receive the communion in the Old catholic church?
karpov89 2 years ago
So does this mean that the Old Catholic Church is valid?
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
Most of those who term themselves Old Catholic these days are actually Wandering Bishops with multiple lines of succession.
I was consecrated into the Old Catholic Church, but I now sit very lightly on this. I would term myself Gnostic or Hermetic Catholic now as I have revised all of my beliefs.
TempleOfLight888 2 years ago
I am glad that your out there helping those that are dis-enfranchised from the other main stream churchs. Keep up the god work.
jhrrs3485 2 years ago
Old Catholics have no religious orders: even the conservative Dutch have a prejudice against monasticism, which is associated in their minds with the "storm troops" of the Papacy. Confession to a priest is compulsory among the Orthodox but voluntary among Old Catholics. Old Catholics give complete freedom to female bishops, priests and deacons to marry before or after ordination or consecration. Old Catholicism is Protestant rationalism without mysticism. Every year numbers of adherents decline
LiturgicalChants 2 years ago
Actually you are wrong. I am part of a religious society (order) of Celts with devotion to the teachings of St. Patrick and St. Aidan. Confession is not voluntary because it is one of the sacraments and a required sacrament in order to receive the Eucharist. Obviously any group that ordains woman is no longer Catholic and therefor has excommunicated itself for that heresy. Furthermore, mysticism is very much alive at the parish I pastor I can promise you that.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
What you do not have is monasticism, you show me a celibate "old catholic" monk and I'll show you "Pope Joan". It was a mistake for me to use the word "religious order"
LiturgicalChants 2 years ago
There are celibate Old Catholic monastics. There is an Old Catholic order of Franciscans, Benedictines and Carmelites, etc, etc, etc.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
Comment removed
ilmokeymayor 2 years ago
Your church does ordain women, so you seem to be saying that your own church is "no longer catholic". You are all illicit priests, in peril of eternal damnation. When (and if) your "celts" ever had permission to ordain bishops without papal permission you had no problem with Rome's teaching, but now that Rome says you can't .....you reject Rome?? Seems a little self serving. Come home to Rome!! The body of Christ awaits you!! Peace, love and joy!
ilmokeymayor 2 years ago
In the North American Old Catholic Church, we have a Benedictine Order and a Jesuit Order, and we are affiliated with a Franciscan Order.
Clerical celibacy was only instituted by Rome in the 12th century to protect Church property and to prevent ministers from distracted from ministry. Before this, many priests and bishops were married.
We are not Protestant, because we believe that we are saved through the grace of God, received in the sacraments of the Church, and given life by faith.
2008805 2 years ago
And while you say that annually, adherents are falling, in our Church, membership is growing substantially.
We just received 2 full parishes and multiple clergy. Many seminarians, including myself, are preparing for Diaconal Ordination in the fall, and vocations are growing.
2008805 2 years ago
While membership may be down in the Churches you have seen, it is not in our Church, which is a fully-Catholic, fully-inclusive, community of believers continuing the traditions of our Early Church Fathers.
And yes, we do have Orthodox Parishes as well.
God bless.
2008805 2 years ago
stop being on my related thing, thanks
TheRomans 2 years ago
huh?
FatherNathan 2 years ago
CIR229: Jesus is simple. Yes.. his mercy and love is THAT simple attain thru faith. but the wisdom of God is not that simple becoz if its THAT simple he is not God anymore..this proves he is All-knowing and a Mystery. if historian a liar Christian faith are in great danger.. but it continues for 2000 years affirmed by 'all' Catholic and Orthodox worldwide. Baptism is the first step to be born again..its in the Bible man..
caydamien02 2 years ago
CIR229: thats another faux! more than 90% of the early Christian are illiterate and cannot read greeks, hebrews or even latin. so people who cannot read the bible are doom to hell? LOL! faith works thru preaching and preaching the Word of God which passed thru the disciples and successor of the Apostles.. and yes im not Roman Cath. im juz Catholic.
caydamien02 2 years ago
CIR229: thats a faux. christ did not command to send or to write any New testament writings.. he command to PREACH the good news to what the apostles and their successor have been instructed orally. thats why the Holy Spirit descend in the form of tongues during Holy Pentecost not 'books'.. you're funny.
caydamien02 2 years ago
CIR229: wow, u are the first "so-called" follower of says to another Christian that they're not brother.. LOL! well, brother there are many Christ nowadays.. but which Christ u refering to? likewise there are many gods in the world religion..but which god you refering to.. and you pick and choose the verse you like..
caydamien02 2 years ago
The Church I belong to is 2000 years old because it was founded by Jesus Christ.
I didn't call the commandments Christ gave slang I said that you interpretation of that scripture is based upon a vantage point using a slang term to define it.
You still haven't answered my question about the Bible.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
so you're saying the roman catholic church today was not founded 2000 years ago?
tonygmilan7 2 years ago
First, you didn't answer my questions.
Secondly, it is baptism. You can not prove to me that historically Christians believed what you are saying. The term "water breaking" or people believing that it was water is a slag term. Its actually amniotic fluid which is completely different. You are equating a modern understand to ancient text and it doesn't apply.
Can you prove thats the historical understanding of that scripture?
FatherNathan 2 years ago
There is only one Christ and that is the Christ of Scripture whom I believe in and trust. I understand when the books were written. I'm asking you when they were compiled and canonized as the books of the Bible. Who decided that?
FatherNathan 2 years ago
Right... but when? When did the Holy Spirit inspire then canon and to whom and at what time in history was it compiled?
FatherNathan 2 years ago
Men can't be infallible? So you don't think Paul, John, Peter, etc. wrote infallibly?
FatherNathan 2 years ago
Hi Father Nathan, just reading some of these comments. God bless you and remember, if you hold the sword of truth by the handle, you are obligated to use it. Drive on!
n623abn 2 years ago
Right... and who decided the canon of scripture? who preserved the books of the bible? where do the earliest manuscripts come from that the bible is translated from?
FatherNathan 2 years ago
no brother you miss the historical line. Catholic Orthodox Church does not create the bible.. they COMPILED it into a thick book. so its the Universal Church give birth to the Bible we are holding now. NOT the written words.. for the Church is the protectress of the written Word of Almighty.
caydamien02 2 years ago
and Tradition and Apostolic succession.. except canon law and liturgical rite.
caydamien02 2 years ago
what's the diffrent between and Roman Catholic Priest and a Old Catholic Preist?
ilovebach123 2 years ago
Father Nathan I like I said before I enjoy leaning new things especially in relation with Christ's Church . You said that the councils had infaliblity before Vatican I not the pope and When the pope declared himself infallible he in esense denied the infallibility of the councils however was it not the council (Vatican I ) that declared the pope infallible not the pope himself btw papal infalibility only refers to doctrine of Faith and morals and only when speaking ex cathedra please clarify
elingeniero2000 2 years ago
I am Eastern Orthodox yet I don't consider the RCC the same as US.
Father Nathan why don't you become EO?
jesujoyofmansdesirin 2 years ago
I have of course prayed about this. However, there is very little different from the EO and OC other then its very Western mindset. I am simply far more western in my liturgical practices. Whereas I have a great love for the Eastern Church and have numerous Eastern Orthodox priest friends I do not feel that it is the right jurisdictional fit for me as living out my priestly vocation.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
Dear father, I'm working towards my ordination in the Old Catholic heritage. Its something of which I'm very proud. Thank you for your excellent posting.
Yours in Christ.
wycliffe35 2 years ago
Nathan+
Do not try to defend yourself or our faith to those who are determined to tear either down. You can not win that kind of argument with someone who is not open of mind. If you have been ordained by a valid OC Bishop in proper Apostolic Succession, than you are a Priest forever.
+Bruce
osjb 2 years ago
We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff. (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
ByzantineSpirit 2 years ago
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
ChristianFAQs 2 years ago 5
Even under the normal conditions this does not fall under doctrine that any Catholic has to believe as infallible. A not to mention this Bull was written before the declaration of Papal infallibility. Not to mention how can you say that under the new canon it says that Eastern Orthodox Christians are saved and can receive the Eucharist. Doesn't this contradict Pope Boniface VII? This is the issue with Papal Supremacy and Infallibility...its the only part of the face that contradicts itself.
FatherNathan 2 years ago
it is not so in early Christian and Orthodox teachings. it is not our Lord's command. its like listening to a Muslim saying those who does not obey Muhammad will perish in hell...LOL!!!
caydamien02 2 years ago
Hello Father, I am a Roman Catholic specifically of the Syrian (Syro-Malabar) Rite. My question is, are you basically the same as Roman Catholics except that you don't believe in taking the Pope (Pope Benedict) as the Pope b/c of the infallible issue? I would like to learn more, b/c I never knew about this situation. I'll study some more on this as well while I wait for your answer. Thank you Father!
Sebastian
sebastians92 2 years ago
Are you born again?
excatholics 3 years ago
Just as much as you are - we are both on a journey - let's hope we both run the race to the end and not fall by the wayside.
Estaban333 3 years ago
There are no Eastern Rite parishes in our diocese however I do know of a few Eastern Rite congregations through out the US. I'll try and find some websites and such for you.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
That story is about as real as the Grinch who stole christmas.
E3Harrison 3 years ago
What about this story isn't real? You as an Orthodox Christian you and I should find many things to agree with more then Rome considering.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
Interesting video. I didn 't realize that Old Catholics had a history centuries before Vatican I. Your views on the Primacy of Rome sounds quite orthodox to me. Being a former Latin Catholic, and having attended Eastern Catholic churches before becoming Orthodox, I can say that, while there are external similarities, there also are significant differences in approach.
Do Old Catholics recite the filioque in the Creed?
StealthGoblin1 3 years ago
What most people don't understand is that most of what they consider to be long standing Western traditions within the Catholic Church are mostly post Vatican I such as certain teachings on the Theotokos and the papacy. The Old Catholic Church feels very similar in many teachings to a Western Orthodox church. As far as the filioque Western rite Old Catholic Churches use it in the creed where as Eastern rite Old Catholics do not.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
Are there Eastern Rite Old Catholic congregations at present? I'd be interested in hearing their history.
StealthGoblin1 3 years ago
Does it matter where your from? Because if you do not observe the seventh day Sabbath as taught by the Adventists, then, you are not in the body of Christ. Full Stop.
robtuk31 3 years ago
who taught the adventist about the sabbath? the apostles?? the apostles 'break the bread' on the first day of the week.
caydamien02 3 years ago
Amazing the amount of anger and hatred I see from, what should be brothers/sisters in Christ. I am a former Roman Catholic and I have absolutely no ill feelings toward the church, nor do I consider Catholics heretics. The centrality of salvation lies Christ and His atoning/finished and sacrifice on the cross. I pray that you would let go of your narrow belief in what "The Church" is. I see a modern day movement of Pharisees, that hinder non-believers from entering the Kingdom of God. Lk 11:37-54
augustine430 3 years ago
christianity is not re-created nor re-reform. it is an inheritance which we receives from the Apostles and their successor. those who baptized with Christ can inherit salvation. but which Christ you follow? the bible's or the Apostles'? a buddhist who accept Christ also believe they will go to heaven.. Roman is not the only One True Church. Pope is not necessary for salvation. Catholicism is not a Church but its the way of life. if you wanna talk about TRUTH lets refer to the Orthodox Catholic.
caydamien02 3 years ago
Very well put my friend, I absolutely agree. Yours in Christ.
wycliffe35 2 years ago
Interesting stuff. I heard of Old Catholics, but never quite knew what that meant.
I look forward in watching more of your videos :)
FalanxKnight 3 years ago
There are scores of 'churches' which refer to themselves as 'old Catholic', most have extremely 'liberal' views, a few do not and some encourage a 'cafeteria' Christianity. Most pretend that there is unity within 'old Catholicism' which is totally untrue. Some have more 'bishops' than church buildings. It is mostly a way to enable people to describe themselves as 'catholic' priests or bishops. The original old Catholic church became a part of the Anglican/Episcopalian church in early 1900's
Estaban333 3 years ago
There are plenty of liberal churches within Rome as well. Don't act as if just because it has "Roman" as its prefix that its pure and such. I could send you scores of Roman Catholic Churches under Roman Catholic bishops that have openly gay clergy or or promoted Obama or abortion. You act as if you can disregard Church history so quickly.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
As you have stated yourself, the validity of the claims of the Catholic Church (what you would prefix 'Roman') are entirely unconnected to the behaviour of some individual members who may, if the have strayed sufficiently, be self-excommunicated. There is one Holy Catholic Church and you are either in communion with it or not. You are not.
Estaban333 3 years ago
But that completely contradicts the Roman teaching on the Eastern Orthodox Churches which while not in perfect communion are still recognized as "particular" churches.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
No it does not, the Church teaches that IT is the one Holy Catholic Church. We are not in communion with the Orthodox who deny us their Eucharist.
Estaban333 3 years ago
The Roman Catholic Communion is a communion of Churches. There are 23 sui iurus Churches in the Catholic Communion, the largest being the Latin Church. The Latin Church acknowledges that the Orthodox have true sacraments--which means a true Eucharist--and the Orthodox Churches are understood to be true Churches. The Orthodox do not give communion to those who are not Orthodox.
StealthGoblin1 3 years ago
Which is very Orthodox of them. Historically you couldn't receive the Eucharist at any parish that wasn't your own unless you received a letter from the Bishop. Not to mention I don't know why that is insulting to Roman Catholics considering you will not give Communion to anyone who isn't Catholic on your terms either.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
I am aware of that , all these churches together comprise the One True Church because they are all in communion with the Pope.
Estaban333 3 years ago
Right but how can they be the "One" true church if the Orthodox Churches, not in communion with Rome, are also considered true particular churches by the Bishop of Rome and according to your Canons? The two great schisms in the Church, the East and the West, and the Old and the New, happened over the issues of the papacy taking more power then he historically deserves.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
And you are taking more power than you have the right to. A Catholic priest has studied long and hard to acquire the title, you seem a little reluctant to specify your own qualifications to give yourself that title. Let's be clear, I , myself, could easily get ordained by one of the thousand of extra-catholic claimants to Apostolic succession tomorrow and go around calling myself a 'Catholic' priest and pretend to administer sacraments. It wouldn't make me a priest.
Estaban333 3 years ago
As you are not a Catholic nor Orthodox we can at least exclude you from the Church. You are a member of a denomination at best.
Estaban333 3 years ago
I could sit here and continue to debate this subject with you until I'm blue in the face but obviously nothing I say will convince you otherwise. In order to be ordained you have have proper form, intention and Apostolic succession. The seminary program is not Biblical and a based on a reaction to the reformation. However, I did study at a bishops school which is the most Ancient form of priestly formation.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
If there are "thousands" of extra-catholic groups as you put it. I am unaware of them. What I do know is that Rome has viewed and validated our lines of succession and that one of our Bishops teaches at a Roman Catholic seminary once a year in Italy and is invited to celebrate the Mass along with the Roman bishops. You can think what you want but the more you say the more it shows how little you know.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
Mr Monk, I have discovered that I can receive illicit, though valid, orders from one of the very many old 'catholic' bishops by attending an interview and paying a (fairly substantial) fee - certificate and everything. Is this Simony?
Estaban333 3 years ago
Well, first off what supposed Old Catholic bishop are you speaking of? Is he part of any jurisdiction and how do you know his orders are valid at all? Judging by what you say that would be simony but I do not know what the entire context of the situation is. I mean would you say that having to pay tuition to a Roman Catholic seminary is simony?
FatherNathan 3 years ago
Also, I should mention that I've never paid a single penny to my bishop or diocese for any training, certificate or anything else. So if that is what you are accusing me of then you are extremely mistaken. Also, don't patronize me by calling me "Mr." you might not like the "illicit" nature of my orders but they are valid. If you don't want to call me Father or Reverend you can simply call me Nathan. I've worked to hard towards the priesthood to be called mister.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
Nathan, I have no idea what your qualifications might be, if you recall you implied that it was none of my business. However there are 'bishops' out there claiming valid orders (like yourself) who appear to be willing not only to sell valid ordination but even tell you how much to charge for a funeral and what sort of living you can make. Just google a few 'old catholic' sites - it's out there. I have no idea whether his own ordination is valid but he makes claims much like your own.
Estaban333 3 years ago
dang! just as the orthodox have a lot to argue with the Roman theologically it doesnt effect the validity nor their jurisdictions. you have no rights to question Fr.Nathan validity! spread and examine your bishops and Fr.Nathan's apostolic succession. what an insult to the Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church. so was Roman Church invalid just becoz Pope JP II kissed the moslem Quran? settle your Novus Ordo issue first or quit spitting at Old Catholicism. Pax in Christe!
caydamien02 2 years ago
I have every right to question the validity of his orders. There are scores of 'old catholic' organisations out there. Nathan seems to belong to an organisation which includes the whole range of Christian beliefs from 1 extreme to the other.I can set up an 'old catholic' church and get myself 'ordained' by someone who can 'prove' that their own ordination is valid. This is not a recommendation it is the opposite - to use the authority of the Church for one purpose and deny it for all others
Estaban333 2 years ago
hierarchically who gave u the right? does st.peter really care whether you belong to Roman, Eastern Orthodox, Old Catholic or Anglican Church? i know what you mean, there even OC bishop who ordained and organized a freemason movement in Church. this is sad but why question Fr.Nathan? havent you heard of charismatic chaos and so many organization in RC itself? another thing does St.Peter really care of being the Prince of Apostles? he could saved himself and reign pope but he chose martyr..pax!
caydamien02 2 years ago
You're right, I have no right personally to pronounce on anything pertaining to religion, that is reserved to the ONE, Holy, Apostolic Catholic Church of which I am a member, unlike Nathan.
Estaban333 2 years ago
well i cant make assumption on that yet coz i havent know which jurisdiction of Old/Independent Catholic he belongs to. well, in RC theology those who separated themselves from the Pope is not belongs the Catholic Church... so sad coz the SSPX and the 'sedevacantist-catholic' is not in communion with the present Bishop of Rome. but what makes them still valid?
caydamien02 2 years ago
Interesting; I didn't realize you weren't an actual Catholic priest. In spite of your heresy, your pro-life opinions seem orthodox, and your work in that area is admirable. I thank you for your work there and hope it will continue. I'll continue to pray that you come that last little step and mature to full union with Rome. Such willful disunity harms all of Christ's people.
CDRphoenix 3 years ago
Dear Father, Thank you for your Video explaining the Old Catholic / Old Roman Catholic position. I am just curious as to which jurisdiction you belong to. Are you a priest within the Old Catholic Church of America for instance? With best wishes.
FATHERVICTOR 3 years ago
vicar of rome is Antichrists?
andy08s 3 years ago
I consider myself more of Roman Catholic with an Old Catholic view, because it seems that the Old catholic is the church of 7 councils, the 4 ancient Patriarchates etc and specially the First among equals, the Pope
TheEcumenator 3 years ago
Grainy.
DrSpitona 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You must not be a roman catholic priest
you dont molest young boys !
JuanJdiesel 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
That doesn't mean he doesn't molest girls.
DrSpitona 3 years ago
You are not funny you savage animal. Go away or act human please.
xplics 3 years ago 4
why are you called "Old catholic" when you broke away from the Roman Catholic?
I know there is "catholics" that broke away from Rome (not in union with the Pope) like Old catholic.
about the infallible is only when teaching in faith and morals nothing else...
i do thank you though for your video..
truthisbetter 3 years ago
Well, there are Catholics who are not Roman Catholics that are in union with the Pope. There are several rites of Catholicism that differ in minor matters of church disciplines but are in full communion with Rome. The "Old Catholics" are not such a rite and are not true Catholics as the term us usually understood. Like the Orthodox, they have most fundamental beliefs in common but reject the teaching authority of the Pope, something they have in common with Protestantism.
CDRphoenix 3 years ago
Hi. I am a traditional Roman Catholic. I have a question. So from what I understood from your video, the Pope at one time or another actually gave this Diocese of Utrecht or whatever it's officially called (I'm not sure) their own power to elect their own Bishops? I don't understand why the Pope would allow that. Could you explain? Thanks!
Patriarch00 3 years ago
I am a traditional Catholic as well. The Bishop of Rome, Eugene III, gave authority to the Cathedral Chapter of Utrecht the right to elect its own bishops at the request of Bishop Heribert of Utrecht and the Holy Roman Emperor. This was to do mainly with the autonomous nature that the Church in the Netherlands has sustained since St. Willibrord first bought Catholicism to it in 696.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
Hi thanks for explaining. You do it better than some Old Cath Priests who practically accuse the Pope & Roman Caths of being heretics cause the Old Cath view doesn't agree with a doctrine. We're supposed to be bro's & sisters in Christ. I'm Roman Cath & trying to understand why I get hated for my faith by other "Christians". I believe God is the same yest. today & tom. His Church has the same nature. But how exactly is St Peter's successor suppossed to feed Christ's sheep & not on bread alone?
nta982 3 years ago 2
wow, i always thought that you were a Roman Catholic priest, lol.
royce555 3 years ago
No offense... but could you liven it up a bit. I keep snoring. By the way, I know my History. I'm aware of the murder,rape & enslavery of Incans & Myans, the "Indulgences" (certificates sold to guarantee no hell)the forcing of conversion, and mixing of Christ with money & gain, etc... It's one sick religion.
SusieArviso 3 years ago
The reliance on relics, the selling of ministries, the way the catholic religion forced themselves on people, decided who were witches and killed them, called the shots on how people had to live....
SusieArviso 3 years ago
That being said... would you lump all black people together since we all know they own guns and sell drugs and are pimps right? Or how about Jews?... they are all rich. And don't get me started on the Hispanics and lawn services. And in case you can't tell I'm being sarcastic. Obviously we can't lump people in because of the "sins of the fathers" so how dare you lump all Catholics in with your desperate attempt to throw all of "christian" history on us.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I think you need to be defrocked.
DrSpitona 3 years ago
Saying no offense before an offensive statement weakens your point. You should have conviction in your offensiveness and simply say what you think instead of hiding behind some vain attempt and being polite because of some hyped up social standard. Have the self dignity to say what you think without masking it.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
I am Eastern Orthodox and totally reject the idea that we are very simpar to Roman Catholicism. We are very different.
sprtslvr1973 3 years ago
I never said that the Eastern Orthodox Churches where similar in the sense of liturgy, cultural practices or discipline. However, the Eastern Orthodox Churches are part of the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church and so in that sense we are very much the same.
Also, I'm not Roman Catholic.
FatherNathan 3 years ago
Frankly the Western rite of the Antiochian Orthodox has much more to offer than any Old Catholic Church ever has...
LiturgicalChants 2 years ago
That being said I do have a great love for the Antiochian Orthodox Church and I have numerous friends who are priests in that Rite.
FatherNathan 2 years ago