An Answer to WCOFTheology the spiritually dead!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@orionifo this is the poison of limited atonement!Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@orionifo For people who come to see this example of a person so deceived that they force such a distortion when it doesn't add up to their false interpretation. Have a look how this person tries to distort truth. The Bible makes it quite clear that Jesus wept over Jerusalem because "THEY WOULD NOT" heed His teaching and this person adds a dose of his doctrinal error to force the lie. See how in their blind deceit they ignore truth. Check the scripture for yourself.

[orionifo]

dude Jesus was weeping over Jerusalem due to the fact that they couldnt recognize him as the Messiah, because he taught only those whom his Father would give him would come to him for salvation, no matter how you try and get around it or evade it Jesus taught election. Jesus was weeping for their total depravity and poverty and he knew none of them could see Him unless the Father enabled them.  so your premise is completely wrong from start to finish.

[no1djkamilo]

@BludBaut nope you are correct falling from grace is caused by seeking self justification which comes from a rejection of Christ and bis gifts

[ChristianHopeVideos]

Apologies to all of you I have been busy doing stuff for God outside I thank you for your input and will try to answer objections.

[Blaze25z]

You sent me 2 videos.......? What can I do for you?

[beith1945]

merci pour cet exposé

[ElijahJohn888]

Yes after all thats said & done the ONLY thing that matters is ARE YOU SAVED/BORN AGAIN. And if you think you are do you have your New Birth Certificate? For those who are not yet saved you can get saved by doing Romans 10:9&10 .Now at The Appointed Time The Lord Jesus Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout & all those who have been sealed by The Holy Spirit shall be Lifted Up to meet the Lord in the air.1 Thessalonians 4:15-18. Maranatha. Amen & Amen

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo You have had enough truth to open your blind eyes. Just because you continue to deceive yourself I leave you to answer to the God of truth.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. What do you think this means?Rev_22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come.And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.and this. I will tell you what it means and it is obvious to honest people. It means if you want the gift you can have it, it's your choice.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo my friend, my friend, my friend, IF IT IS NOT MAN'S FREE WILL WHAT IS IT. IT IS FORCED UPON US WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT. CAN YOU BE HONEST HERE PLEASE?IF IT IS ONLY GOD'S WILL IT IS SHOVED DOWN OUR THROAT WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT. YOU DIDN'T SAY IT BUT YOUR DOCTRINE IMPLIES IT.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo My reason has not gotten in the way of the Bible at all which is visible for all to see here. What has gotten in the way is the traditions men and false doctrines of so called theologians. Look through these verses and see where I have been dishonest in my interpretation of the Bible.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo How do you interpret "believe and is baptized"! Is their something wrong with your logic? Does it mean baptism comes after belief in that phrase? YES IT DOES! how about this one?Act_10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Baptism was a commandment to those who believe. If baptizing a child were biblical it would tell us. It is not in the Bible.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Do you really believe your choice is not involved in the receiving of the gift? I am beginning to see now why you are pushing this subject. It's because you believe in baptismal regeneration. This would mean one could baptize children and say they are becoming Christians in the act. Well as I presented baptism is for those who believe not those who don't. There is a provision for children and it's not Baptism. They are made holy by the faith of at least one of the parents.

[BludBaut]

@ChristianHopeVideos "They are made holy by the faith of at least one of the parents."

Kudos on believing a verse *not* believed by most "Believers."

Its neglect is most frequently brought to light by the unscriptural claim that all children who die go to heaven. Well, if God only wanted people in heaven, as many claim, then He'd be doing better to kill all the children. Yet, people don't follow that simple single step of logic, preferring religious dogma to truth.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Salvation is totally God's provision. Free will to accept that gift IS NOT MAKING SALVATION ANY LESS GOD'S WORK. Free will to reject the gift or accept it IS NOT A GOOD WORK TO BUY SALVATION. If a person gives you a gift and you say yes and accept it does that mean you worked for the gift? Of course not! You simply said yes and accepted it as a gift. If you said no does that mean it never was possible for you to have the gift? Of course not.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo I have never said salvation depends on free will! Accepting salvation is the right of choice. God does not shove salvation into anyone like injecting a needle in their arm. WHOSOEVER WILL! Do you know what this term means? "IF ANY MAN COMES AFTER ME" Do you know what that means? It means that anyone that chooses to come to Christ and anyone WHO DENIES HIMSELF and take up his cross will gain his life and not lose his soul.

[no1djkamilo]

i also dont see where it says that baptism is a command of man's obedience

[no1djkamilo]

i didnt see the word 'after' in the mark passage.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo About baptism where do you want me to start?Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Baptism here is obviously a command after one believes.

[no1djkamilo]

yes. youve interpreted well. however ythe unbiblical notion that you have is that the free gift of salvation depends on freewill. where does the bible teach this?

[BludBaut]

@no1djkamilo I don't know if you're being contentious or asking a sincere question. The "depends" throws me. If you're not being contentious, "Whosoever will may come and drink of the water of life freely" is a good answer.

I think Calvinists are more thoughtful and honest with Scripture than Arminians, but when they seek to justify Calvin at the expense of the truth of Scripture, they err. God put a tension in His Word between "truths" that the humble get and the proud miss.

[no1djkamilo]

@BludBaut 1- CHP has been sending me his videos for quite some time on why Calvinism is wrong and Arminianism is true.

2- I was trying to show that CHV (as most ppl) doesn't understand true Calvinism (AKA Covenant Theology)

3- I also told him I was a Lutheran and we believe ultimately both Arminians and Calvinists are both Reformed in the way they read the scriptures (with Reason at the driver's seat).

4- I was showing CHV he had the lens described in point 3 (above).

5- He didn't like it.

[no1djkamilo]

@BludBaut And I'm not being contentious just clearing up the false assumptions Arminians have about faith, works and children. The burden of proof is on CHV to show the CLEAR passages that teach his semipelagian position, so me asking for where the NOUN 'will' and 'choice' are shown to decide, or receive salvation. In essence the Arminians have replace 'faith' with 'choice'.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Christians can commit the unpardonable sin and often do when they accuse the work of the Holy Spirit and say it is a devil. Rom 11:22 proves that the elect can turn and be cut off from God. All in Christ are the elect. The 12 elect were warned in John 15 that if they did not continue to abide in Christ they would stop the grace flow in their lives and would eventually be cut off from Christ.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo I have never studied what Arminians believe. I only study the Bible and if I debate with a Calvinist or a Lutheran I only debate from the Bible. I believe the free gift is presented to all and that's all God. Accepting that gift after hearing the Gospel is a free will choice. To abide in Christ is a continuing choice. While one abides in Christ they cannot lose their election and they will always be fruitful! This does not mean a Christian cannot commit a sin unto spiritual death.

[BludBaut]

@ChristianHopeVideos You've got a mixture there that suggests to me that you don't appreciate some Scriptures because your eyes haven't been opened to them.

Be careful when inferring something from a Scripture because it seems like a reasonable or logical conclusion from what is said. God's illumination will often expose the fallacy of logical deduction in drawing conclusions.

Abiding in Christ is as much grace as choice, for we simply DON'T make all the right choices.

[BludBaut]

@ChristianHopeVideos cont2 To follow up, I grew up in the Lord with a strong emphasis of our responsibility and God has opened my eyes to the magnitude of His love manifested in His amazing forbearance and graciousness. While I considered "eternal security" a doctrine of men (or demons), I've become amazed by His mercy and grace. You might benefit on meditating on "mercy triumphs over judgment." God is so much BETTER than we realize! His mercies are new every morning. wow

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo PLEASE TELL ME HOW Rom11: 21 CONTRADICTS MY INTERPRETATION?

[ChristianHopeVideos]

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20  Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

[ChristianHopeVideos]

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Ok so it seems I did miss 21 so I will add it. I did however prove the real meaning of the verse through that quote so we will add 21 because IT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT HOW I HAVE INTERPRETED THAT VERSE IN FACT IT PROVES MY INTERPRETATION IS CORRECT!

[no1djkamilo]

where does the bible teach baptism is man's work of obedience?

[BludBaut]

@no1djkamilo Is it not obvious by the fact that it is the ONLY independent volitional act that God requires apart from the new birth? Didn't Peter say it was a cry for a clear conscience and that it washes away sins? Isn't it the one act that publicly testifies that we've joined ourselves to Him? Isn't it the counterpart to His baptizing us in the Spirit. We do our part and He does His part. Do you meditate on Scripture? It seems not. You should; it's invaluable.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo So because this verse proves his doctrinal error he has attempted to change the meaning of the verse. Rom 11:19 You will say then, The branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.

Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.

When it is talking about the branches being broken off it is not "cut off from God's people" BUT CUT OFF FROM GOD. So Jesus came and the natural branches chose to reject Him.

[no1djkamilo]

yes exactly! the scriptures teach that a true Christian can fall from grace and be separated from God. In this point the Arminians are right. The scripture does not teach however that man's will is what brings salvation. it teaches the opposite.

[BludBaut]

@no1djkamilo "the scriptures teach that a true Christian can fall from grace"

Clearly that's true, but without the context of falling from grace by "seeking to be justified by law," which is unbelief in Christ's redemption, aren't you suggesting that there are other bases for falling from grace? Do you see other bases? Please point to them. Since salvation is by faith, is pointing out unbelief as the cause for the loss of grace a suggestion that there are any other reasons?

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Just scroll down amigo and find where I quoted tha verse you said I ignored. In fact I shall find it and re quote it. Be careful when you accuse me of ignoring something. I have a good memory.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Please explain how it contradicts my reasoning don't just say it does without explaining yourself!

[no1djkamilo]

interesting how you ignore the verse before 21. Verse 20 contradicts your system and reason and hence you ignore it.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

NO IT DOESN'T! The first verse is related to taking Salvation away against one's will the other is a result of a willful act on behalf of the believer TO SOP ABIDING IN CHRIST.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I have a question. Does this verse contradict Romans 11:22?

[no1djkamilo]

you have clearly misunderstood the Lutheran (biblical) view of salvation and condemnation. Arminians believe man is ultimately responsible for his salvation and condemnation (semipelagianism). Double predestination Calvinists believe God is ultimately responsible for his salvation and condemnation. Lutherans believe that the scripture teaches that God is ultimately responsible for man's salvation but man is responsible for his condemnation. There, test it against scripture.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo The answer of a Christian's good conscience or basically obedience to the command to be baptized after believing the gospel!1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Your logic said, "cut off from God's people" Bible plainly says CUT OFF FROM GOD!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Well let's look at your logic as you had presented it in these comments!"Once again I'm a Lutheran and I'm not gonna shy away from any text of Scripture nor explain it away, but take it for what it says even if they don't make sense."This is your logic?And this! "Yes Rom 11:22 teaches you can be cut off from God's people."So you have not taken Romans 11:22 for what it says you have tried to make it mean something else because you see it contradicts your theology. Unsanctified logic

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Are you trying to spin me in circles! The scripture does not contradict itself! Your interpretation contradicts the truth. Need I refer to the Scriptures that you think contradict other Scriptures? It is the interpretation of Paul's teachings that contradict the truth not the truth contradicting the truth.

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos Let me provide an example for you. What is baptism according to the scripture?

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo DID JUDAS LOSE HIS ELECTION AS AN APOSTLE? DID JUDAS BY TRANSGRESSION LOSE HIS APOSTLESHIP?WAS JUDAS ONE OF THE 12 THAT WAS TOLD HE WOULD SIT UPON ONE OF THE 12 THRONES? To all these questions A GIGANTIC YES!!!!!!!!!!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo I am perplexed with your logic when it comes from interpreting the scriptures. Did you say that I prefer Logic than truth? That has never been me my friend. How could you differentiate Grace from Calling and election re Judas?Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Is this a calling and election amigo?WAS JUDAS CALLED TO BE AN APOSTLE?

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo God expects us to use sanctified logic. It always amazes me that when debaters are without an answer for the truth presented they move from the scriptures to personal opinions and unfounded jibes. The truths I have debated are irrefutable.

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos where do you get this notion that God wants us to use "sanctified logic"? and if this is attainable in this side of death how do YOU know you have it?

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo ok let me define perseverance of the saints in brief. All that are Christians will persevere till the end if they don't they were never Christians. Let's put that in light of Lucifer's fall. The Angel Lucifer rebelled against God so he was never an angel. Adam sinned against God so he was never pure. Or "all branches in Christ that are broken off from Christ were never in Christ!" You that have accused me of making "Logic" my Holy Grail. When do we ignore truth and call it logic?

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos I'm saying the foundation of how you read the bible has logic as master instead of servant of God's word. To read God's word with logic as servant is to accept truths that seem to contradict themselves but are true because they are CLEAR truths in scripture.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@b66175 Nao Comprhende amiga!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@preachinshawn I am not so sure what you mean! I believe in the eternal perfection of the believer that abides in Christ till the very end. BUT THE CHOICE TO NOT ABIDE WILL REMAIN WITH US UNTIL DEATH. IF WE MAKE OUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE WE WILL NEVER FALL ACCORDING TO ONE(PETER) WHO NEARLY DID FALL FROM HIS CALLING AND ELECTION. 2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Note"shall be" future tense!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@savana906 Thank God that their are a few honest people regarding truth. Bless you Savana I know you will not be deceived.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo ..if they did not continually abide in Him as He taught them in John 15. This was Jesus' instruction to them(the 12) telling them that if they did not continually abide in Him they would dry up be broken off from Him and cast into the fire. When they would have seen the betrayal and the fatal end of their once time colleague, Judas there would not have been any need for an explanation. The True Vine teaching said it all! Judas was elected and in Christ the Vine and stopped abiding.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

From this scripture does it say that Judas had an ELECTION? IT WAS HIS APOSTLESHIP AND HE FORFEITED IT THROUGH SIN. JUDAS WAS NOT A DEVIL WHEN ELECTED HE WAS ABIDING IN CHRIST AND THEN TRANSGRESSION ENTERED AND HE WAS A BRANCH THAT DRIED UP WAS BROKEN OFF AND CAST INTO THE FIRE.God warned the 12 that they would also suffer the same..

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos He forfeited through unbelief. Judas fall from grace (or apostleship if you want) is not a CLEAR passage to suggest that the elect fall from grace. On the contrary, there's a bunch of other scriptures you are ignoring that say just the opposite. That is your logic overriding the CLEAR teaching of God's word.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.He was addressing the 12 which included Judas. Judas had an election, how do we know? I am glad you asked that question! We shall prove from a proper exegetic method of interpretation right now!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo So my theologian friend what about an answer?Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Hmmm here it is amigo, HE FELL FROM HIS HOLY APOSTOLIC CALLING!!!! Did the apostle Judas have a calling and election? Yes he did! In fact Jesus had spoken a promise to the 12 INCLUDING JUDAS, that they would sit upon the 12 thrones in the new Jerusalem when Jesus entered His glory.

[savana906]

Amen. <3

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Ok so you deny Calvinism and Arminianism yet you believe in the perseverance of the saints, WHICH IS ANOTHER TERM FOR ETERNAL SECURITY, ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED doctrine. Your next post has prompted another question concerning Judas. What did Judas fall from if you think it was not his election? Of course if you were in a position and you fell from that position because of something you did then what position do you think Judas fell from?

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos No they are different. But I believe the scriptures teach the perseverance of the elect, not of saints. Judas fell from grace, not from election.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo ...think they are, if it does not fully comply to the truth that can be clearly derived from the Scriptures it is chaff. So yes I know it destroys the T.U.L.I.P. fallacy the "Holy Grail" of the reformed doctrine so let God be true and everyone else opposed to His truth be found a liar.

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos You're incorrect, the holy grail of Reformed doctrine (which includes yours) is Logic, not the tulip.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo ...ARE THE REMNANT OF CONVERTED JEWS SUCH AS PAUL AND THE OTHER APOSTLES AND THE BELIEVERS AT THE TIME OF CHRIST. So God is speaking through the apostle Paul saying to the Gentile Church specifically in Rome that they would suffer the same fate as the unbelieving Jews if they do not continue in His goodness. Now that's what the passage actually means so what do you and the deceived theologians want it to mean? I don't give heed to any religious person no matter how smart they ....

[preachinshawn]

I agree with the main point of this video.

It's just unfortunate that you deny the fact of eternal perfection for those who come to Christ.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Suffer the same punishment as the Jews that were cut off from God?Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Are you an honest theologian? I will ask you a question. Who was grafted in to the Gospel tree here in this verse?Who is the stump that the wild olive tree was grafted in to? Quite simple answer THE GENTILE CHURCH AND THE STUMP......

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo ...as it contradicts your view you tell me that I am forcing a meaning that is not here. This is a common way in which people with such concepts lure the unstable into an intellectual investigation of other theologians when basically all you need to do is look at the text. Funny how a basic truth can be interpreted another way rather than the Bible way. So I will ask you a question my theologian friend? Is this verse saying that if the Christians at Rome do not continue they will..

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo amigo you might just tell me what you think I am saying seeing as you grant me my premise and you might also tell me how I am failing to interpret this verse Romans 11:22? Oh I already know. You being a Lutheran who believes in reformed theology believe it is impossible for a believer to lose his salvation because you believe all true believers will endure to the end and are sealed in an air tight hope that cannot be taken away.So when it comes to the TRUTH IN THIS VERSE...

[b66175]

Free will, the Apocalypse day of terminate ! When the imposztor announces

self - himself. Because placed under the control ~ the men to.

( Revelation 13:15-18 )

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo There are Christians that have shipwreck faith! There are some that yoke themselves to unbelievers and they cut themselves off from the grace of God. There are sad cases described in Hebrews 10 where they draw back to perdition and never return.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo A Christian can turn from God AND BECOME A DEVIL. Judas and Jesus had sweet fellowship together and they were called friends. Judas who was a holy elected apostle turned from that Holy calling and lost his Apostleship by sinning. Peter was called a Devil but Peter did not commit a sin unto spiritual death, Judas did. There are sins that Christians can commit that have no forgiveness. Christians that allow the leaven of the Pharisees into them blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Who is creating straw men? You are! When did I say that justification is not by faith. I know exactly what it is talking about. As the body without the spirit is dead so "faith without works is dead" Faith is not an inactive experience. They work together but my friend I can assure you that you do not understand that unbelief can turn a saint back to their old ways and faith can die. When revelation says "I know your works" It is the same as saying I know your faith.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo God's children can be blotted out of the book of life according to Rev 3:5. What does this mean to believers? Well it means what peter said we should do. Make OUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE. Why should we? Because fellow Christian it is certainly not guaranteed. We must hold fast our profession of faith to the very end. We must not let those things die that once were vibrant we must overcome sin the world and the devil. Abide and you will not slide!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo The only way for the children of God to not be cut off was to abide in faith and continue in the goodness of God, that is what they had to fear, if they drew back to perdition they would have the same result as the unbelieving Jews. This then people who are observing this blog proves that a person can fall from their election and calling the same as Judas did. Judas by transgression fell. Fell from what? His election as an Apostle of the Lamb.

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos This shows the issue you Reformed (both Calvnists and Arminians) guys have. You put reason above scripture and put words into the scripture that aren't there and ignore things that don't agree with your system. The scripture NOWHERE says that Judas fell from his election. That's you reading your semi-pelagian beliefs into the passage.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Please notice "Do not be high minded but fear"! Firstly let us note to whom Paul is talking! Rom 1:7 to all those who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. This is to whom Paul is talking. What is he saying to them? If you don't continue in His goodness you will suffer the same fate as the unbelieving Jews. What fate was that? THE WERE CUT OFF FROM GOD.

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos I'll grant you your premise, even though the verse doesn't say what you want it to say. Once again I'm a Lutheran and I'm not gonna shy away from any text of Scripture nor explain it away, but take it for what it says even if they don't make sense. Yes we believe that Christians can shipwreck their faith, fall from grace, etc, as the scripture defines these terms.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo So because this verse proves his doctrinal error he has attempted to change the meaning of the verse. Rom 11:19 You will say then, The branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.

Rom 11:20 Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be high-minded, but fear.

When it is talking about the branches being broken off it is not "cut off from God's people" BUT CUT OFF FROM GOD. So Jesus came and the natural branches chose to reject Him.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo I want you that visit this blog to note how a Calvinist or Reformist deals with scriptures that add a subtle change to their meaning through the answer of no1dj. The verse I quoted was Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness, and the severity of God; on those having fallen, severity; but on you, kindness, if you continue in the kindness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. He says the verse means "teaches you can be cut off from God's people." Do you see what he has changed here?

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo According to Acts 10 unregenerate man can make good choices before they are born again. This unregenerate Italian made such good choices that God commended him.Of course I am not saying that it would be enough to save his soul from hell but it certainly got God's attention. And guess what? His heart was wide open so that he welcomed the Word Of God preached into his heart and was saved and Baptized in the Holy Spirit.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo What was the difference between David's heart and his brothers?Seeing as they are all totally depraved according to your doctrine?What was it that Cornelius had done that caused God to marvel and say his deeds went up as a memorial before God and that Peter said anyone in any country that had the same heart was accepted by God?You see where this poison of Calvinism has its roots.They are deceived to believe the person in their sinful state cannot do anything good.God says they can!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Joh_12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. Jesus is equal to the Father so does it mean all men will choose to believe in Him? No they will not all choose to believe/ What does that mean? They disobey the gospel. I have a question! 1Sa 16:7 But Jehovah said to Samuel, Do not look on his face, nor on his height, because I have refused him. For He does not see as man sees. For man looks on the outward appearance, but Jehovah looks on the heart.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Of course the deceit of true Calvinism is that God did not die for all therefore God only presents His grace to the elect. If what Calvinism says is true they make out HE IS A LIAR. In the Bible the gift of salvation is presented to everybody. Christ died for sinners, does that leave anyone out. BUT THE HORRENDOUS LIE OF CALVINISM SAYS GOD ONLY DIED FOR THE ELECT. They ignore the universal promises to all men. Whosoever WILL LET HIM COME! GET IT?ANYONE WANTING TO CAN HAVE IT!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Firstly if Calvinism does not teach eternal security you better explain what you think Perseverance of The Saints means. Let me tell you the truth about Calvinism so you don't do the Calvo cop out and call everything a straw man that proves Calvinism a lie. Let's look at something you mentioned about free will. We don't have a free will because everyone is tainted by sin so we cannot choose the gift of God presented to us. That my friend is a lie.

[no1djkamilo]

It seems that you are afraid of studying the position of the Reformation better because it might dispel your semi-pelagian beliefs.

[no1djkamilo]

Yes Rom 11:22 teaches you can be cut off from God's people. True Calvinism (Covenant Theology) teaches just the same. And BTW, I'm a Lutheran, not a Calvinist but I can understand Calvinism better than you can sir.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo What was it that made Rahab different to the whole City of Jericho She Chose to believe the God of Israel. Jas_2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? This is all free will response to believing in God.

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos This is the same prooftexting Roman Catholics use to deny justification. Read in context, James is talking about justification before men by works, Paul is talking about justification before God by grace alone, faith alone in Christ alone which produces works. The text never mentioned free will, choice, salvation. Repent of your semi-pelagianism. Salvation is of the Lord. God bless.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo I appreciate your offering me the idea to study covenant theology but I will pass on that because I feel I have a clear view of Calvinism. When it crops up I will answer it with the Scriptures.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo I will just post one infallible Scripture proof that Christians can lose their Salvation.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@no1djkamilo Are you saying the Children of Jerusalem are born again? So now you would bring an emphasis upon them being Children of God. These children you are talking about are abiding in unbelief and resisting grace. This is the nature of Calvinism. No matter what scriptures prove it an error they say we hold a straw man view of it. I can prove from Scripture. 1. You can resist grace 2. Free will is involved in the salvation experience. 3. Eternal security is not scriptural.

[no1djkamilo]

@ChristianHopeVideos Never said the children of Jerusalem are born again, I was trying to make the point that they were two different sets of people (ye, your children) hence the verse doesn't disprove irresistible grace. No it is not the nature of Calvinism, this is a strawman again 1. Yes, scriptures say you can resist irresistible grace. 2. The only free will involved in salvation is God's. Man's will is bound to sin. 3. Eternal security is not Calvinism, perseverance of the saints is.

[no1djkamilo]

You have an amazingly oversimplified view of Calvinism from what I see in your comments, a strawman of sorts which is then easy to tear apart. If you're really interested in true Calvinism, study Covenant Theology. Just one observation about your quoted passage in Matthew. Notice Jesus saying "How often would I have gathered thy CHILDREN ..... and ye would not". God bless.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 People must be persuaded to believe. 2Co_5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. They are not manipulated to believe.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 fall from?Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. The truth is Judas sinned unto spiritual death. Judas by transgression fell, fell from what?Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. From his holy election as an apostle. He lost it and Matthias was given it.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 ...two by two into every city. So after looking at the teaching of the true vine which Jesus spoke directly to the 12 disciples one can see that you can be in Christ growing in His grace yet make the fatal decision that would cut him off from the virtue of Christ. Strange how Calvinists deny he had a calling and make out that he was a devil from the beginning. The truth revealed in the scriptures is that he lost his calling and election. If Judas never had anything what did he..

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 Does it mean that God is tampering with his free will? No it does not! Some refuse to believe no matter what pressure is coming from outside to persuade them. Judas was called and elected as a Holy apostle that was promised a throne in the New Jerusalem yet Judas fell from his Holy calling. It boggles the mind after having a holy election as he had how he could turn away from his holy calling and vacate it for another. Especially knowing he was used for in miracles as they ....

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 ...persuade him to repent. Jon 2:3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.

Jon 2:4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

Here is proof of Jonah's change of will. "yet I will look again toward thy holy temple." A change of heart right here. I have never said God does not persuade the will by doing all He can to change it.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 Notice how Jonah int the throat of the fish turns his heart to pray,Jon 2:1 Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,

Jon 2:2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

I dare to say if Jonah had not turned his will back towards God he would have perished in the fishes belly. Yet because God knew how this would turn out has prepared the circumstances to..

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 That is a very good question! Yet I find it very easy to answer. First let's look at it in the light of a Calvin view as if it would relate to Salvation. Calvin view! You will go to Nineveh I condition your will to go and you will not resist because you have no free will I change your heart to conform totally to my will. God's wisdom! I will command Jonah to go I already know He will resist my will and when he desires death I also know he will turn back to me and pray for ...

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 I do not care how many religious people condemn free will as heresy as long as the Word of God doesn't condemn it! The highest religious brains of the era condemned Christ for saying He was the Son of God yet it did not change the truth. Free will before regeneration is biblical truth as far as it relates to Salvation.

[October31st1517]

@ChristianHopeVideos Question? Did God interfere with the Prophet Jonah's will?

[ChristianHopeVideos]

I do not care how many religious people condemn free will as heresy as long as the Word of God doesn't condemn it! The highest religious brains of the era condemned Christ for saying He was the Son of God yet it did not change the truth. Free will before regeneration is biblical truth as far as it relates to Salvation.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@bereansearch This Scripture turns on its head the doctrine of Calvinism because in the eyes of Calvinism any work done before salvation is a filthy rag in God's eyes yet here we see plainly that God calls Cornelius' deeds a worthy memorial before Him.Peter picks it up and says anyone from any nation that has the same attitude will be accepted by God and no doubt be lead to the Gospel to be saved. These would be like those spoken of in the book of Acts 18:10 for I have much people in this city.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@bereansearch Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Right here we see that a person has the ability to do good deeds and the ability to open their heart to God and the ability to make a free will choice THOUGH THEY ARE NOT REGENERATED. To imagine that no one can make a free will choice to accept the Word of God is ludicrous.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@bereansearch Act 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

Act 10:4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@bereansearch As I have repeated before all unregenerate men can never do enough good deeds to outweigh their bad deeds and thus give themselves the new birth. What I am saying and this is proven through Scripture is that unregenerate man can make a free will choice that gives them an entry into the rebirth. A clear illustration of that is in Acts 10. Here is an unregenerate man who is doing good deeds and fearing God and praying always and God said his good deeds were a memorial in heaven. 

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@bereansearch ....this forces an erroneous idea that God selects only a few humans at his pleasure works the decision into them like a band of automated robots and locks them in for eternity. This illustration of God seeking to gather her chicks under her wings is proof that God does not force Salvation on anyone. God's sending Jonah to Nineveh was the same. The Ninevites were presented the Word of God AND BY THE FREEDOM OF THEIR WILL CHOSE TO BELIEVE.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@bereansearch You are the one that believes no one can make a free will positive choice without God initiating that choice before regeneration. I am saying that the Choices based on free will can be made on the presentation and makes that available to anyone as the Scripture says. This puts to the sword the lie of the "Limited Atonement". Which is perverse concept which describes persons as having not had the rebirth being unable to use a free will choice in favor of Salvation

[October31st1517]

WCOF means Westminster confession of faith. It's a presbyterian confession. Your position of freewill was condemned as heresy by the Council of Orange

[bereansearch]

Men aren't robots, just slaves to sin (Rom.6:6,17). "Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." -Rom.8:7 The command to repent and believe is just that... a command. The lost cannot understand or accept it though (1 Cor. 2:14). Jesus is lamenting and says he would have gathered "your children" not gathered "you". A parable is not a good source for a foundational theological stance.

[guitmartiman]

This idea of the gospel by force is actually the argument of Satan. The genesis of Satan's rebellion against God, if one could come up with some kind of rational explanation as to why he would rebel, has its foundation in the concept that he wanted absolute freedom to do whatever he wanted to do regardless of God's law. Basically, he wanted the prerogatives of God. Since that was one thing he could not have, he claimed that God ruled by force and His creatures did not have freedom of choice.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty You see free will in us chooses what we value. People who disobey the gospel make that free will choice and will be accounted responsible for that choice. People who choose not to obey when the Light comes will remain in that bondage of darkness! That bondage of devilish darkness is broken when the free will choice accepts the Word preached. The preaching is the eye opener but only those who choose to believe enter the blessing.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty There is no flawed doctrine in this truth at all. What is flawed is the deceit of Calvinism.There are more holes in their doctrine than Swiss cheese. See what your quoting about the blinding of those who don't believe is like the birds who when those hearing it, did not understand and the devil moved in and took the seed of truth away.Is that God shutting their eyes. No! What did Nicodemus do? He chose willingly to seek out the meaning of the gospel before his heart was regenerated!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty They should have been provoked to repentance by the change seen in the Sinners but they chose to resist God's plan for their lives."repented not afterward, that ye might believe him"

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty Mat_21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. Here is a classic case revealed in this parable of the freedom of choice related to salvation. The choosing to believe is the individuals right and the presentation is all God. Notice that repentance comes PRIOR TO BELIEVING.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty So let's get this in perspective. The tax gathers and harlots came to Christ why?They loathed their sins and want the Light in their lives but the religious hypocrites loved their sin and would remain in the darkness because THEY CHOSE TO!!!! Jesus did not come to sinners to force them to believe He came to invite them to believe in Him and only those who wanted out would get out!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty If you love the Light YOU WILL COME TO JESUS. So then a love for Christ the only way precedes salvation not proceeds it. Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Joh 3:20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. "If a person loves sin will they come to Jesus? No!If a person loves Jesus do they love sin?No!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty You have made another subtle but erroneous statement too. "It is our own love for our sin that keeps us in it." This sounds right? Would you agree? In otherwords you have made this statement to prove we have no free will because we love our sin right? So that would require a change of the heart first before one could receive something from God right? Well let's see what the Bible says about that.

My Bible says if you love darkness you WILL NOT COME TO JESUS.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty Sin is a willful act against God whether by omission or commission. My next question, what sin have those hearing the gospel committed making them responsible themselves for that sin in Acts 13:46?They have sinned by rejecting the truth which is their free will choice, they are resisting grace.



[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty then it would decimate their whole doctrinal error. I can take this further into responsibility of the chooser. I ask you a Question? What is sin? Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty If they believed as I do, that Christ died for all sinners as the Bible teaches, then they would have to say free will is involved to enter the blessing. So in their attempt to promote an error they have to believe Jesus only died for a few elect and those elect had to be conditioned to believe because they think if it is all God and the receiver has to be conditioned to believe. If however they believed the truth, that is to say that the free will choice belongs to the individual...

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty Actually at first I thought you were re-inventing Calvinism but then I saw what you were actually doing. That subtle statement almost threw me but I am happy to expose it now. Jesus did not die for anyone wanting to be saved,ONLY! HE DIED FOR ALL SINNERS, INCLUDING THOSE WHO WOULD CHOOSE TO REJECT HIM. 1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. Here is where the poison of limited atonement falls short.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty It really is so sad how one can be so duped concerning truth. You are saying that what I have explained does not demolish the error of Calvinism yet you are re-inventing Calvinism.How are you doing that? "And OF COURSE Jesus paid for the sins of anyone wanting to be saved." This is an attempt to say the one desiring God is the only one Jesus died for.The Calvinistic error is that the wanting there has been placed inside the Desiree thus making the desire, God's planting!

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@October31st1517 Well that of course is true, Choice is the response from the free will. Every choice comes from free will. So when does free will end? Well good question. When God sends the wicked with the devil into hell and when He receives the righteous into eternal life. Then we will have eternal security and only then.

[October31st1517]

Choice & freewill are 2 different things.

[THEBIGREDHAT]

Responsiblity after you know the truth to choose the way of truth and refuse the way of evil that destroys the soul.There is a lot of confusion spread by the enemy Deu 30:19 mention the choice and if we have a choice we can have we do have the power of choice.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

Thanks good brothers!May God use you all to rise up to curse this doctrine at the roots. Not only does it cling like a choking vine to a tree slowly taking over it, sucking out the virtue and strangling all life,It is used to sow seeds of doubt about the precious Gift of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. They impose a lie once again that the promised Baptism of the Holy Spirit is equal to salvation when the Bible describes it as a secondary experience. One thing's certain they are not lead by HS.

[trailoftears91]

The woman at the well story is a good example of Jesus talking about polygamy.

[truegospelofchrist]

It is good teaching with proper understanding. God bless you.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@Jimvesterstallone Amen well said! Notice how nothing is mentioned by these guys concerning the subject! They hide behind their straw man cop out!

[Jimvesterstallone]

It is so telling when that phrase comes out. I have never heard anyone but a professing Calvinist say it, & in my 20 years saved I have heard it too many times to count. It is not a magical phrase cancelling out pages of Scripture. We must immerse ourselves in God's Word alone & teach our young ones to do the same to protect ourselves from adopting man's doctrine and inadvertently absorbing lies.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@theocratickingdom30 That's ok Jesus and the disciples had no credibility with the religious hypocrites so if WC had that meaning it would suggest I had been kept from the lies they announced there. Hallelujah for that! I don;t need any credibility with those who believe a lie.

[theocratickingdom30]

Credibility is lost in the first minute. If you do not know what WCOF stands for you should not be discussing this subject. :-/

[Jimvesterstallone]

@theocratickingdom30 I don't meant to insult you but...that's absurd. Someone came along with a name he did not recognize *saying things contrary to Scripture*, and he *brought Scripture*. The subject was not who the person was, but what they said and how it failed in light of Scripture. If someone comes to me today with a name I am not familiar with saying things contrary to Scripture, I am not going to read up on who they are before I bring the pure Word of God to them.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty If you are a Calvinist you are telling a lie. If it is all God and not freedom of the will God has tampered with that free will. Do not come in here and present a lie about Calvinism. In fact if it is all God then the person has no will. How the poison disguises itself! Amazing! Corner a seasoned Calvinist and this is their trick. They deny what they actually believe to lead Christians deep into their error! The cloak will be stripped from your deceit in these last days!

[stegokitty]

@ChristianHopeVideos - That's flawed logic. Our wills are free only to choose that which our hearts desire. We're born into this world fallen, with corrupt, wicked hearts, with corrupt, wicked desires. It is our own love for our sin that keeps us in it. The Devil also has blinded the eyes of the unregenerate so that they cannot repent and believe. This is why it is necessary for the sovereign grace of God, else there shall be no salvation. I never deny what I believe. I love what I believe.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

@stegokitty Ha ha ha I wondered when when this would happen. The loophole of every cornered Calvinist! Call verses that demolish their lying doctrines a straw man argument and then they do the trick to try and get the unstable to seek the intellectual confusion route and fall to the tricks of the devil. Basic truth, Jesus paid for the sins of all anyone wanting to can be saved. The lie Jesus died for a few elect! What blatant heresy!

[stegokitty]

@ChristianHopeVideos - I haven't seen you call any verses which "demolish" anything except for any cohesive meaning of the Scriptures. Divorcing Scriptures from their contexts, and ignoring the rest of the Word is the same way that cults like JW's and Mormons, et al, "prove" their positions. And OF COURSE Jesus paid for the sins of anyone wanting to be saved. Who said otherwise? Certainly not a Calvinist. Everyone who turns from their sins, and embraces Jesus shall be saved. Period.

Next?

[stegokitty]

No one has claimed that God "tampers" with the "free will" of men. That's (yet another) straw man. You poison the waters by doing such deceptive moves. Your listening audience doesn't know the difference, because they don't do the necessary study, and it's evident that neither do you. Fallen man has no "sovereignty". It matters not how many "chances" that you give to a spiritually dead man, he will never, never, ever repent of his sins and believe on Christ UNLESS God works that in him.

[ChristianHopeVideos]

Very good and Bible based comments thanks for your input! I cannot understand how so many can be so duped into believing irresistible grace. We are not God's automated robots.

[TheLordsweapon]

I agree on the free will brother, but I also believe that God knows ahead of time what all of our free will choices will be in every circumstance of a persons life.

Acts 1:24

Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men.

1 John 3:20

God ... knoweth all things.

[Jimvesterstallone]

"...If ***ANY man*** ***WILL*** come after me, ***let HIM deny himself***, and take up his cross, and follow me." -Matthew 16:24

Jesus said "any man" can come after Him!; He addresses the "will" of man (it must exist!); and He says it is in a person's power to deny himself (repent). Mankind is told again and again and again throughout the Bible to "repent" (deny ourselves and follow Him) *for* forgiveness of sin. This is how we are saved. Blessings. :)

[HumbleFaith777]

WCOF stands for Westminster Confession of Faith.

[offline111]

WCOF.....Similar to the Diet of Worms! The Protestants are just Catholics out of fellowship with their "holy mother." Babylon is seen in her daughters and wisdom is justified in it's children. The Apostle's Creed, Christ-Mass, Easter, All Saints Day (Halloween), are also the bent of such religious zealots, blind guides one and all. Free Will is very obviously reality that Yahweh has established from the very beginning, even before Heaven and earth were created. Lucifer chose sin.