Death Penalty Debate- Michael Portillo for Horizon

[GusF]

Irrespective of his beliefs, Robert Bleckin is a bit of an arsehole.

[gigalojam]

Must say I don't agree with or see the rationale behind this eye for an eye mentality. No individual should ever take away another persons life, but in the sad circumstances where this does happen, where is the logic in the state then condoning and performing the very act that they deem to be so wrong? Is the function of the state not to be emotionless and free of the notion of 'revenge'?

Any replies from someone who is pro-death penalty would be greatly appreciated because I just don't unders

[dumbtrooper]

end violence it make us violent agree thumb up

[g111g]

Never heard of this nitrogen method. What about using it in abattoirs?

[estesoyojajaja]

@g111g  what about the chair ?

[ktbroadwell]

murderers should be killed the same way they killed thier victims. thats justice.

[hippotoast]

No they should not. Governments should not have the right to exterminate their citizens, no matter how worthless they are or how detrimental they are to society. People don't choose to become a tax paying citizen of wherever they are forced to become a tax paying citizen of wherever. Personally I think life in jail is a worse fate than execution anyway.

Capital punishment is wrong.

[Herodotus99]

If you're opposed to the death penalty on the grounds of 'government rights' then you should be opposed to any form of reciprocated punishment on those grounds. Otherwise you're just being selective because of your preferred ends. Punishment is an end in itself.

[hippotoast]

Death is the end of all things for the individual. The ability to think and feel, regardless of the crimes you have committed is something that shouldn't be destroyed by any covertly motivated government. The idea that the government has the power to end my life on grounds that are never 100% certain and vulnerable to human error is a travesty of my individual rights as a human being.

[Herodotus99]

That's not my point. You can defend your opposition to the death penalty for humanitarian reasons and such, but your point was with government/judiciary intervention. The death penalty is no different from any other penalty when it comes to government intervention. If you're going to oppose government intervention for the reciprocated punishment of death, then you'd have to oppose government intervention for a prison sentence that reciprocates equal damage posed on a victim of pillage or rape.

[Herodotus99]

Plus, it's not a case of 'government intervention'. The judiciary makes the decision. That's the reasoning behind the devolvement of power in the establishment. Executive-parliament-judiciary­. The law is there as an option for JUDGES. It would never equate to some form of totalitarian imposition.

[hippotoast]

But It's the state that decides what criteria constitutes as a crime. The jury is given the power to sentence the defendant within parameters decided by the state. The state is the entity empowering itself to execute criminals not the jury nor the citizens of the state.

[hippotoast]

I was implying that imprisonment is a lesser of two evils. I don't like the idea that the government is entitled to the degree of power over the individual that it does, but in order to protect society as a whole certain criminals should be secluded from the whole. Imprisonment also opens up the possibility of rehabilitation.

[MrGilles1990]

@hippotoast do you believe in abortion?

[TheCaptainLulz]

@hippotoast Nitrogen is humane, fast and cheap. Its going to happen anyways, lets use something humane.

[theporksicle]

@hippotoast

Perhaps not- but if you reject the gov't doing it (which I can understand as it metes out punishment in a clinical fashion anyway) would you object to the relatives of a murder victim killing the murderer? How about the friends? How about anyone in the local community? How about someone who didn't even know the victim but read about their death in the newspaper?

[hippotoast]

@theporksicle We enter murky territory with this. On principle, I can't defend the actions of revenge killings but on the other hand I can't say I couldn't empathize with an individual who's family has been killed, In their position I could very feasibly seeing myself seeking revenge but it would be fuelled by emotion not moral judgement or rationale. Although I wouldn't endorse a mob rule killing situation, I don't think a revenge killing should carry the same sentence as the original murder.

[theporksicle]

@hippotoast

Should it carry any sentence or would there be circumstances where you think a prosecution would not be appropriate?

We do indeed enter murky waters here, take following scenario and tell me what you think ought to happen as someone who doesn't condone but empathises with revenge killers- guy's relative killed by serial killer, relative then pays inmate in same prison as killer to kill them- who gets into trouble?

[theporksicle]

@hippotoast

Or suppose the original killing was justified, would you expect family members to hold in their vengeful tendencies, I would.

So if you kill someone breaking into your home to kill you, and one of their relatives then kills you its not really fair the relative should not receive the full sentence as what you did was not wrong.

[MrGilles1990]

@hippotoast capital punishment is cheaper!

and more efficient.

Prisons are more like a huge club where people get supply's of drugs!

[estesoyojajaja]

@hippotoast That is disgusting. A murderer deserve to die. The governenm has the right to execute someone who has commited a murder, because with that action, they will be showing that they care about their citizen and they are taking a bastard away of this planet. As soon as you killed someone, you had lost your right to live and to be trate as a human being.

[messibo]

What you said, is in the same essence as a murderer.. you would have the potential to kill a human if you think revenge is justice.

That statement makes you no different from the criminal himself.

[ehunter2]

Ghoulish freak. Christ what a souless monster.

[sanshuz]

FUCK that PRICK

[SPAG22]

Which one?