First of all, someone linked me to the video because they found it absolutely hilarious that people believe it was perfectly acceptable to castrate young boys in order to preserve the quality of their voices. I agreed with him.
It doesn't necessarily disturb me. I find it not only funny, but fascinating.
Oh, the insult was unnecessary, but if you feel as though you must, I forgive you anyway.
That you don't understand the historical context of it doesn't mean that it wasn't done for a particular reason. It truly came down to religious impositions, women were not allowed to sing or perform publically, so children were used for higher voices...and then castration was deviced in order to keep their voices from deepening. That plus years of training allowed them to become the most virtuosic singers in history.
why on earth couldn't these people just choose GIRLS instead of boys? Why did they have to put them through the torture of cutting off their balls when there are plenty of talented little girls out there with equal beautiful voices, except with a bonus...THEIR BLOODY VOICES DON'T DEEPEN. >< also btw, there are women whose voices can sound like a castrato person, its not an impossible thing
Boys were originally castrated to preserve their voices into adulhood because women were not allowed to sing in public because of religious and cultural reasons at the time.
But even considering such ridiculous reason, women do not have the vocal range the average castrati developed (more than 3 octaves) or the breathe control (holding a note a full minute) and the virtuosity they developed by study as women were only allowed to study music past age 16 and boys since age 6.
it's too bad that we can't hear any real castratos. i wanna hear then in real life cuz it must have been mind-blowing. too bad they didn't have any recording devices back in the 18th century. =(
wow....it's just sad no recording devices were available back then to record such a phenomenon...such relics will never be seen again in the modern days....castrato extincted like the dinosaurs...
@NESHero : unfortunately, Moreschi was a very poorly gifted singer, with a frail and feeble voice. So in fact, there is no real way to know what good castrati really sounded like: can you imagine Haendel composing pieces for voices like Moreschi? He may not have been the grumpy bear Jeroen Krabbé made him to look like in the film Farinelli, but he wàs demanding where quality was concerned!
Its typical british ego that fails to mention the french singer jaquossky or the turkish singer who may be considered modern day "castrato". If they were to include these people, we may have a richer picture of these magnificent singers.....
@51m0n77: Nothing to do with Britsh ego! The documentary is from before Jaroussky's becoming famous. High-pitched male singers aren't called castrati anymore, since it isn't done anymore; bytheway, since people found out a boy could keep on to his angel's voice without having to be castrated, naturally there are more and more boys who make a career as a countertenor, and all those beautiful pieces for castati from 18th century can be enjoyed by us again.
Thanks for posting this series - very informative & interesting. Fortunately for me, I don't come with a lot of baggage on the issues of countertenors, falsettos, castrati, etc. so I can just enjoy this. ;-)
I probably wouldn't agree with his statement that the castrati vocal folds were the same length of a child. There simply isn't any proof of that. I would also say that like women, castrati would have had a falsetto voice too. Higher up on the scale than a countertenor.
Why could you not maintain your self respect? are you saying men with high singing voices are not worthy of respect? or are you sayig effeminate men are not worthy of respect? or are you saying if you were either of them you could not respect yourself? ...how twisted.
@primohomme that's a very polite way of seeing it all (although it does sound quite full of it), but truth is, for most men, it's pretty hard and painful to imagine this amount of testosterone not quite there. for instance, ask a straight man about being gay, he's either gonna roll his eyes or sight : oh god. Most of us have to much pride (in the negative sense) for that
@primohomme Well in regards of the comment that got disliked.. It's not about men with high singining voices naturally.. It's about the the castrato phenomenon... Boys were forced in young age to get their testicles removed in order to please the general public...
@TheSjpatrik the boys weren't always forced. In fact, most of the times they weren't! In those days, medical knowledge was limited: people had no idea about hormones and stuff. We over-estimate the gravity of this "operation". In 18th century, life as a castrato, successfull and rich, was preferable to starvation. And such was the fear of the boys to lose their golden voice at puberty, that most of them asked to be castrated themselves. As for the pain: pulling a tooth hurt more, back then...
@Mangasakka Not sure if I believe that the boys really asked for the operation, more believeable that they did the operation in order to support their family. They probably got persuaded by their peers and siblings to do this. Forced or not I do not believe they wanted this themselves.
@TheSjpatrik: I realise it must be hard to believe, today, now we know the function of the testicles, and the consequences of the ablation thereof so much better. But back then, they didn't even know you couldn't have children anymore as a castrato!. Also those children were often orphans and didn't have a family to support, just themselves. So the drama of it must be relativated. Certain is, that nobody forced Carlo Broschi: he really wanted it himself, out of love for music.
@TheSjpatrik: why? The church didn't make them orphans, disease or poverty did. The church took care of their upbringing: orphanages in non-catholic countries were much worse. Just think of Oliver Twist! Anyway, The Broschi family was one of music-lovers, like the Mozarts: Father and oldest son gifted composers, youngest fabulous interpreter. He loved music so much he volutarily had the operation in order to keep his voice and serve music all his life. They weren't poor.
@primohomme I'm removing the comment I made and I apologise for making it, it was very rude and inconsiderate of me. Hope you accept my apology, Masterish91.
@MasterIsh91 If you were a singer(counter-tenor or not) and had a successful career, then of course you'd have great self-respect and respect from others. But if you didn't have a career at all (singer or any other profession), would you have enjoyed self-respect just because your voice was low?
@MasterIsh91 If you were a singer(counter-tenor or not) and had a successful career, then of course you'd have great self-respect and respect from others. But if you didn't have a career at all (singer or any other profession), would you have enjoyed self-respect just because your voice was low? The most confident people are bass/baritones?
@MasterIsh91 you sound like Samson from the Bible: he believed his strenght lay in his long hair. When they cut it, he lost all force. You think your self-respect lays in the pitch of your voice? I can't believe you mean that for real. It's too silly. Just give it a thought...
@Mangasakka I'm removing the comment I made and I apologise for making it, it was very rude and inconsiderate of me. Hope you accept my apology, Masterish91.
@MasterIsh91: Aw, it's okay. Maybe think a bit longer before you write down something, next time? Maybe you wanted to say somenthing funny; but don't forget when you've put it on the net, it stays there and after a while, when everyone is frowning, you realise it isn't as funny as you thought..
@Mangasakka I think I wasn't in a particularly receptive mood when I made the comment and didn't really appreciate the offence it could cause. After attending quite a few lectures and classes with counter-tenors I realise just how short sighted my comment was. Anyway, I hope the youtube community will not bear a grudge against me for my past immaturity.
@primohomme I understand, but, if they didn't have the testosterone, thus the muscle tissue of a grown man, it coul't have the power of a man's voice! Thanks for the upload.
The power was given by the breathe support capacity (with bigger lungs) and in fact their chest cavity grew larger than that of a normal man, so they were able to hold phrases of endless coloratura without having to retake a breathe for a whole minute.
@saintsaens21: that's not at all true. It was unlike a woman's, a man's or a child's. And I was reading an article by Clapton who did the reproduction for this documentary. He took a boy's voice, but just the laryngeal output and spliced the harmonics from a tenor singing the same thing onto it to mimic the larynx of a boy with the body (and therefore resonance) of a man. It's fascinating!
check out alessandro morchesi. the last and only castrato to record an album. poor quality but then again its over 80 years old and he was past his prime.
I kinda agree lol the treble seems to be slightly throaty or breathy, thin, shrill at times (for instance at the opening 'cara' was sharp), and the countertenor is slightly aspirated and his vibrato is wobbly/spreading, do you know the physological factors responsible for this perhaps bad placement? cuz i can make my vibrato tight and narrow and more center and I feel it "ringing" out evenly or I can spread it and wobble it slowly like his making my voice sound older/tired! lol
@primohomme I kinda agree lol the treble seems to be slightly throaty or breathy bushing too tighyly at times, and the countertenor is slightly aspirated and his vibrato is wobbly/spreading, do you know the physological factors responsible for this perhaps bad placement? cuz i can make my vibrato tight and narrow and more center and I feel it "ringing" out evenly or I can spread it and wobble it slowly like his which makes my voice sound old & tired, worn down. lol
@primohomme Yeah. The general public already has little enough knowledge of and respect for guys who sing high. The countertenor is a historian of the castrati so you can see why they had him singing but the use of the treble really annoys me. Nowhere near enough boys sing treble as it is and the ones who do often get teased for it. They could have found a twelve- or thirteen-year-old from a cathedral choir with a strong full mature voice and good technique.
That's bloody horrible.
I couldn't stop laughing though. They really castrated these poor, young men to preserve the quality of their voices? LOOL
ParadoxAnonymous 1 week ago
@ParadoxAnonymous
Yes, and some of them went on to become the greatest singers that have ever lived
primohomme 1 week ago
@primohomme
So the sacrifices was justified?
Poor, unwilling children.
ParadoxAnonymous 1 week ago
@ParadoxAnonymous
If the topic disturbs you so much why did you even watch the video?
And you seem to have some mental problems; first you think it's fine, then you feel outraged this actually went on...
Are you off your meds?
primohomme 1 week ago
@primohomme
First of all, someone linked me to the video because they found it absolutely hilarious that people believe it was perfectly acceptable to castrate young boys in order to preserve the quality of their voices. I agreed with him.
It doesn't necessarily disturb me. I find it not only funny, but fascinating.
Oh, the insult was unnecessary, but if you feel as though you must, I forgive you anyway.
ParadoxAnonymous 1 week ago
@ParadoxAnonymous
That you don't understand the historical context of it doesn't mean that it wasn't done for a particular reason. It truly came down to religious impositions, women were not allowed to sing or perform publically, so children were used for higher voices...and then castration was deviced in order to keep their voices from deepening. That plus years of training allowed them to become the most virtuosic singers in history.
primohomme 1 week ago
@primohomme
Insulting me and now assuming that I'm incapable of understanding their ridiculous religious reasons for castrating young boys. Hm.
No, no. You're wrong. I perfectly understand it, but that does not mean I shouldn't be able to find it hilarious; which it is.
ParadoxAnonymous 1 week ago
Thank you for posting this, very interesting movie.
jewelmarkess 2 weeks ago
Anyone know the name of the piece at the very end of this part?
ThePrimusGuy 3 weeks ago
@ThePrimusGuy
"Al lampo dell'armi" from the opera Giulio Cesare by Handel
written for the castrato Senesino.
primohomme 3 weeks ago
Ah-Ha!!!! I knew something was wrong with his singing!!! Yes, I am kinda pissed!!! NEVER PERFORM WHAT YOU AREN'T READY FOR!!!!! NEVER!!!!!!
GuqinZheng 3 weeks ago
0:50 - 1:10 -- kid is noticeably off-key. I wonder if any of the musicians are super-pissed.
7beers 1 month ago
@7beers
Most of the singers chosen here sing off key...except for the mezzo and the natural male soprano
primohomme 3 weeks ago
@primohomme Could be. I didn't listen too much after the first few minutes.
7beers 3 weeks ago
@7beers I was actually thinking why couldn't have chosen a better singer.
splicio 3 weeks ago
@7beers
He's fucking shit!!!
Pilkie101 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
why on earth couldn't these people just choose GIRLS instead of boys? Why did they have to put them through the torture of cutting off their balls when there are plenty of talented little girls out there with equal beautiful voices, except with a bonus...THEIR BLOODY VOICES DON'T DEEPEN. >< also btw, there are women whose voices can sound like a castrato person, its not an impossible thing
jualkyn 1 month ago
@jualkyn
Boys were originally castrated to preserve their voices into adulhood because women were not allowed to sing in public because of religious and cultural reasons at the time.
But even considering such ridiculous reason, women do not have the vocal range the average castrati developed (more than 3 octaves) or the breathe control (holding a note a full minute) and the virtuosity they developed by study as women were only allowed to study music past age 16 and boys since age 6.
primohomme 1 month ago
Comment removed
jualkyn 1 month ago
it's too bad that we can't hear any real castratos. i wanna hear then in real life cuz it must have been mind-blowing. too bad they didn't have any recording devices back in the 18th century. =(
DoggieAngel12345 1 month ago
@DoggieAngel12345 Alessandro Moreschi, you'll see him in the suggestions, he was the very last castrato.
Spac3JunK 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Radu Marian... solved
Florencione 1 month ago
................
start out the documentary by sharpening a knife
how fitting....
YOUCANNOTDENY 2 months ago
I WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE PART 3 TOO. PLEASE! THANK YOU!
yvrknv 3 months ago
@yvrknv
I'm sorry but youtube blocked it :(
primohomme 3 months ago
Fantastic. No words.
mikewill9511 4 months ago
DIOS!! LOS CASTRATO ERAN PRODIGIOS Y LOS CONTRATENORES ACTUALES SON DIGNOS DE SER NOMBRADOS LA MEJOR VOZ Y SIN EMBARGO LOS DISCRIMINAN!!!
solouyo 4 months ago
4:35 The 3 nutless wonders!
SuperStrik9 4 months ago
anyone know which arias are played in this part? Specially 4:10
fmcfurlan 4 months ago
@fmcfurlan Venti turbini, aria de Rinaldo, Acto I from Händel's opera Rinaldo from 1711
HerrWarja 3 months ago
wow....it's just sad no recording devices were available back then to record such a phenomenon...such relics will never be seen again in the modern days....castrato extincted like the dinosaurs...
aiayumi 8 months ago
@aiayumi yes there was a recorded castrato.
Search youtube for Alessandro Moreschi. He was recorded on something like a phongraph around 1902.
NESHero 6 months ago
@NESHero : unfortunately, Moreschi was a very poorly gifted singer, with a frail and feeble voice. So in fact, there is no real way to know what good castrati really sounded like: can you imagine Haendel composing pieces for voices like Moreschi? He may not have been the grumpy bear Jeroen Krabbé made him to look like in the film Farinelli, but he wàs demanding where quality was concerned!
Mangasakka 1 month ago
Its typical british ego that fails to mention the french singer jaquossky or the turkish singer who may be considered modern day "castrato". If they were to include these people, we may have a richer picture of these magnificent singers.....
51m0n77 9 months ago
@51m0n77: Nothing to do with Britsh ego! The documentary is from before Jaroussky's becoming famous. High-pitched male singers aren't called castrati anymore, since it isn't done anymore; bytheway, since people found out a boy could keep on to his angel's voice without having to be castrated, naturally there are more and more boys who make a career as a countertenor, and all those beautiful pieces for castati from 18th century can be enjoyed by us again.
Mangasakka 1 month ago
Thanks for posting this series - very informative & interesting. Fortunately for me, I don't come with a lot of baggage on the issues of countertenors, falsettos, castrati, etc. so I can just enjoy this. ;-)
mrgreynomore 9 months ago
I probably wouldn't agree with his statement that the castrati vocal folds were the same length of a child. There simply isn't any proof of that. I would also say that like women, castrati would have had a falsetto voice too. Higher up on the scale than a countertenor.
mradaChris 10 months ago
What is the song that starts right at the end. At 10.13
Ruffleberg 1 year ago
Comment removed
MasterIsh91 1 year ago
@MasterIsh91
Why could you not maintain your self respect? are you saying men with high singing voices are not worthy of respect? or are you sayig effeminate men are not worthy of respect? or are you saying if you were either of them you could not respect yourself? ...how twisted.
primohomme 1 year ago 16
Comment removed
MasterIsh91 1 year ago
@primohomme that's a very polite way of seeing it all (although it does sound quite full of it), but truth is, for most men, it's pretty hard and painful to imagine this amount of testosterone not quite there. for instance, ask a straight man about being gay, he's either gonna roll his eyes or sight : oh god. Most of us have to much pride (in the negative sense) for that
BowetBurger 11 months ago
@BowetBurger
you admit its a negative way of looking at it so why are you defending such ignorance?
faceyfaceface 1 month ago
@primohomme Well in regards of the comment that got disliked.. It's not about men with high singining voices naturally.. It's about the the castrato phenomenon... Boys were forced in young age to get their testicles removed in order to please the general public...
TheSjpatrik 3 months ago
@TheSjpatrik the boys weren't always forced. In fact, most of the times they weren't! In those days, medical knowledge was limited: people had no idea about hormones and stuff. We over-estimate the gravity of this "operation". In 18th century, life as a castrato, successfull and rich, was preferable to starvation. And such was the fear of the boys to lose their golden voice at puberty, that most of them asked to be castrated themselves. As for the pain: pulling a tooth hurt more, back then...
Mangasakka 1 month ago
@Mangasakka Not sure if I believe that the boys really asked for the operation, more believeable that they did the operation in order to support their family. They probably got persuaded by their peers and siblings to do this. Forced or not I do not believe they wanted this themselves.
TheSjpatrik 1 month ago
@TheSjpatrik: I realise it must be hard to believe, today, now we know the function of the testicles, and the consequences of the ablation thereof so much better. But back then, they didn't even know you couldn't have children anymore as a castrato!. Also those children were often orphans and didn't have a family to support, just themselves. So the drama of it must be relativated. Certain is, that nobody forced Carlo Broschi: he really wanted it himself, out of love for music.
Mangasakka 1 month ago
@Mangasakka yeah that is true, most of them were orphans, I blame the church! hehe
TheSjpatrik 1 month ago
@TheSjpatrik: why? The church didn't make them orphans, disease or poverty did. The church took care of their upbringing: orphanages in non-catholic countries were much worse. Just think of Oliver Twist! Anyway, The Broschi family was one of music-lovers, like the Mozarts: Father and oldest son gifted composers, youngest fabulous interpreter. He loved music so much he volutarily had the operation in order to keep his voice and serve music all his life. They weren't poor.
Mangasakka 1 month ago
Comment removed
MasterIsh91 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@primohomme I'm removing the comment I made and I apologise for making it, it was very rude and inconsiderate of me. Hope you accept my apology, Masterish91.
MasterIsh91 1 month ago
@primohomme
hahaha awesome. That idiot got owned.
faceyfaceface 1 month ago in playlist CASTRATO, BBC Documentary
@MasterIsh91 If you were a singer(counter-tenor or not) and had a successful career, then of course you'd have great self-respect and respect from others. But if you didn't have a career at all (singer or any other profession), would you have enjoyed self-respect just because your voice was low?
PrimoUomo 1 year ago
@MasterIsh91 If you were a singer(counter-tenor or not) and had a successful career, then of course you'd have great self-respect and respect from others. But if you didn't have a career at all (singer or any other profession), would you have enjoyed self-respect just because your voice was low? The most confident people are bass/baritones?
PrimoUomo 1 year ago
@MasterIsh91 you sound like Samson from the Bible: he believed his strenght lay in his long hair. When they cut it, he lost all force. You think your self-respect lays in the pitch of your voice? I can't believe you mean that for real. It's too silly. Just give it a thought...
Mangasakka 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Mangasakka I'm removing the comment I made and I apologise for making it, it was very rude and inconsiderate of me. Hope you accept my apology, Masterish91.
MasterIsh91 1 month ago
@MasterIsh91: Aw, it's okay. Maybe think a bit longer before you write down something, next time? Maybe you wanted to say somenthing funny; but don't forget when you've put it on the net, it stays there and after a while, when everyone is frowning, you realise it isn't as funny as you thought..
Mangasakka 1 month ago
@Mangasakka I think I wasn't in a particularly receptive mood when I made the comment and didn't really appreciate the offence it could cause. After attending quite a few lectures and classes with counter-tenors I realise just how short sighted my comment was. Anyway, I hope the youtube community will not bear a grudge against me for my past immaturity.
MasterIsh91 1 month ago
@MasterIsh91: somebody who can apologize so eloquently, can't but be pardoned by all, Masterlsh. ;-)
Mangasakka 1 month ago
I don't know what all the fuss is about. It's just a woman's voice.
saintsaens21 1 year ago
@saintsaens21
No it wasn't at all like a woman's voice, if anything was more like a child's voice but with the power of a grown man's.
primohomme 1 year ago
@primohomme I understand, but, if they didn't have the testosterone, thus the muscle tissue of a grown man, it coul't have the power of a man's voice! Thanks for the upload.
saintsaens21 1 year ago
@saintsaens21
The power was given by the breathe support capacity (with bigger lungs) and in fact their chest cavity grew larger than that of a normal man, so they were able to hold phrases of endless coloratura without having to retake a breathe for a whole minute.
primohomme 1 year ago 6
@primohomme OMG that sounds unhuman.
Ichisokeno 6 months ago
@saintsaens21: that's not at all true. It was unlike a woman's, a man's or a child's. And I was reading an article by Clapton who did the reproduction for this documentary. He took a boy's voice, but just the laryngeal output and spliced the harmonics from a tenor singing the same thing onto it to mimic the larynx of a boy with the body (and therefore resonance) of a man. It's fascinating!
silversheep1 9 months ago
check out alessandro morchesi. the last and only castrato to record an album. poor quality but then again its over 80 years old and he was past his prime.
51m0n77 1 year ago
That doctors explaination was cool as hell,thanks for posting!!!
fjj8 1 year ago
Does anyone know who the soprano is at 8:24?
THL95 1 year ago
@THL95
She is a mezzo-soprano, and her name is Jennifer Johnston, I think.
primohomme 1 year ago
I feel sick. Sorry.
fuccons 1 year ago
I kinda agree lol the treble seems to be slightly throaty or breathy, thin, shrill at times (for instance at the opening 'cara' was sharp), and the countertenor is slightly aspirated and his vibrato is wobbly/spreading, do you know the physological factors responsible for this perhaps bad placement? cuz i can make my vibrato tight and narrow and more center and I feel it "ringing" out evenly or I can spread it and wobble it slowly like his making my voice sound older/tired! lol
whistlenotelover 1 year ago
@whistlenotelover
The short answer would be...Breathe control
primohomme 1 year ago
I don't know why they used that treble and that countertenor, their intonation is HORRIBLE.
primohomme 1 year ago
@primohomme I kinda agree lol the treble seems to be slightly throaty or breathy bushing too tighyly at times, and the countertenor is slightly aspirated and his vibrato is wobbly/spreading, do you know the physological factors responsible for this perhaps bad placement? cuz i can make my vibrato tight and narrow and more center and I feel it "ringing" out evenly or I can spread it and wobble it slowly like his which makes my voice sound old & tired, worn down. lol
whistlenotelover 1 year ago
@primohomme Yeah. The general public already has little enough knowledge of and respect for guys who sing high. The countertenor is a historian of the castrati so you can see why they had him singing but the use of the treble really annoys me. Nowhere near enough boys sing treble as it is and the ones who do often get teased for it. They could have found a twelve- or thirteen-year-old from a cathedral choir with a strong full mature voice and good technique.
essslj 10 months ago
@primohomme cont'd They shouldn't be perpetuating the notion that children who sing have weak thin 'angelic' voices not good for much.
essslj 10 months ago
Does anybody know which is the piece played at 06:18?. Thank you!!
sweltame 1 year ago
What was the name of the song at the end of part 1 of 6?
Bublerap12 1 year ago
@Bublerap12
"al Lampo Dell Armi" from Handel's Giulio Cesare, and it seems is the recording by David Daniels
primohomme 1 year ago
@primohomme Thanks man
Bublerap12 1 year ago
@primohomme yes is al Lampo dell Armi from Handel's Giulio Cesare, but the singer in this recording is James Bowman no David Daniels, thanks
LordMagros 1 year ago
BBC ROCKS!!!!!!!
ALTAIR241100 1 year ago
the last Castrato died in Rome in 1922! the only one to exist in all Europe at that time!
acerb45666555 1 year ago
Interesting bunch... looking forward to this!
TheWisemonkey8 1 year ago
@TheWisemonkey8
Check out the rest of the videos, it's quite an interesting documentary :)
primohomme 1 year ago