Added: 1 year ago
From: slortind
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  • @soupcanprotestor ...note that these people are using the language in a casual, common-sense way that fits the particular context of their operation...so the way they use language does not help you in any way to decide if a particular logico-musicological statement makes any sense...these people are not logicians...or musicologists...

  • @soupcanprotestor ...it has nothing to do with "they were born etc.","they lived etc", and so on...it has to do with logic, i.e. "does it make any sense to say, etc.".All this stuff with what happened to "they" does not help you in any way, this all has to do with whether you are using the English language in a way that retains any coherence and logic. But you, being Polish, don't care about any of that, you want to be a propagandist..."that they died"..."that it is unfair" etc...

  • @soupcanprotestor ...you keep falling into the same logical trap, and keep trying to convert a lot of negative statements into something positive...this will never work. You have to, first, answer the question "under what circumstances does make sense to call a piece of what is ostensibly so called "Jewish music" a piece of Polish music. If you try to do this you right away hit wild logico-musicological contradictions...unless you are interested in practicing political propaganda, it is hopeless

  • @fredericfranc you take music way too seriously. i absolutely assure you that not one mebmber of this band has ever even thought about that. calling this jewish music is wrong though; i do not really understand where that thought comes from from a logico-musicological" standpoint. what you are doing is similar to people collecting street art and selling it for 20000dollars while interpreting wildly what it means and where it comes from, completely missing the actual message

  • @fredericfranc btw jewish culture and polish culture have a history together because unlike other countries poland had religious freedom in the 15th and 16th century when jews were already persecuted in germany

  • @Zirc0nium69 ...I don't think you understand what my tricky, technical exchange with soupcanprotestor was about.You would have to read the whole sequence, which may be just too much. But it started with my notion that you cannot try to polititize what WVB does now, by making references to the convergences the the polish and jewish cultures in the 15th century. Politicizing art is the greatest crime of all, but today in Poland it is done more viciously than ever before '89.

  • @fredericfranc now i have read part of it and i am starting to understand both sides, but i believe you are being a little anti-polish here. i am polish as you probably guessed but i usually really dislike polish patriotism. can you only call polish what was polish from the very beginning and has its roots in the exact same spot its played now?

  • @fredericfranc what exactly could you call american then? this music has many influences and doesnt try to claim that its exactly the same as 1000 years ago, they are calling this a neofolk/punk crossover

  • @fredericfranc @fredericfranc people saying they want to be polish because of this obviously dont know shit but they dont mean it seriously. calling it "as unpolish as can be" is simply WRONG - it does have many influences from the songs polish farmers have been passing on for generations, it just not trying to be the exact same but to give it a youth culture touch and more power so people can dance to it

  • @fredericfranc one more thing. you seem to think that them portraying the palace of culture symbolizes their support for stalinism ( as expressed in a very weird comment on anoither wvb video) that is not the meaning of the cover. it is supposed to symbolize the triumph of beauty and peace over the monumental human way of waging war and filling everything with concrete. believe me nobody in poland likes the palace of culture. we call it the deuce stalin left in the middle of our living room

  • @Zirc0nium69 ...no, I was not trying to imply that WVB "support stalinism", even Vladimir Putin, even when he gets drunk out of his mind, does not support stalinism...Some "music" appearing in the compositions of, can you believe, FREDERIC CHOPIN(!), is "totally unpolish", so it is no wonder I was enraged that someone tried to call THIS HERE "polish music"...on stuff like this my thinking is "either you are technical on this, or keep your mouth shut, don't give me this political PC shit"...

  • @fredericfranc i still believe you are far too strict with the rules here but who am i to tell you what to think. im just going to leave you alone now but i will still consider this polish music just like i consider "jeden osiem l" to be polish hip hop and im still going to be proud of it even if that unjustified :D call it religion or politics if you want.

  • @Zirc0nium69 ...if you call THIS polish music, you can call ANYTHING polish music, for any reason you feel like using at the moment. This is, of course,a very polish way to think, it is called, in the american vernacular "anything goes". In a country that seems to enjoy veering from Bolszewia to Ojciec Rydzyk, having this oriental stuff pulled into the "polish" rubric should not bother me. Wl. Gomulka quote comes to mind " ni pies, ni wydra, cos na ksztalt swidra" Moze pan pierwszy sekretarz...

  • @fredericfranc but you ignore sooo many people who are inbetween these two extremes. i could just as well reduce america to reagan and the kkk

  • @Zirc0nium69 ...dowcip w tym, ze mimo ze Ojciec R. nauczyl sie jak kierowac tym przedsiebiorstwem niby od Niemcow, zachowuje sie jakby byl przeszkolony w Moskwie, byl kolega-po-fachu Boleslawa Bieruta z okresu trzeciej miedzynarodowki, i wogole nawet ich "prazdniki" Radio Maryja odwala na modle sowiecka, jest Pan Ojciec tez za-pan-brat z Putinem wzgledem tych transmisji na zakresach NATO. Zreszta nie byloby ceregieli z moim uznaniem tej azjatyckiej muzyki za nadwislanska, czy...

  • @Zirc0nium69 ...przeflancowaniem tanca hora na kujawiaka, gdyby ktos, z poczucia elementarnej kurtuazji powiesil mi kilku polskich hiphopowcow, moze byc dyskretnie, ale jak nalezy, za odpowiednia czesc ciala...

  • @fredericfranc lol no kilku to na pewno fajnie byloby sie pozbyc :) ale niektórzy się starają i nie robią tylko "joł joł madafaka"

  • @fredericfranc ale powiedz mi, już tak bez wrogości, co uznajesz za prawdziwą polską muzykę?

  • @Zirc0nium69 ...w obecnych warunkach "rynkowych" i wogole, nakladanie etykietek narodosciowych na jakakolwiek muzyke jest pojeciem chybionym. Jasne ze o wiele latwiej sformulowac kiedy takie "klasyfikowanie" jest extra absurdalne, jak wlasnie w tej tu sytuacji...

  • @soupcanprotestor ...you are making a lot of negative statements like "you can't define this, you can't define that" and then convert all this into a positive statment "therefore this music here is actually Polish music". This is entirely illogical. You should try this line of argument at a real musicology conference and you are going to get "smiech na sali"...

  • @soupcanprotestor ...I understand and sort of agree with the general tenor of what you say here...the catch is that we are dealing here with music which is a very technical entity by nature, and working with it, and drawing conclusions about it calls for extremely strict logical and evidentiary procedures. Your approach, which I basically like, relying on socio-political-historical-eth­nic reasoning, will not work for music. You need much more rigid procedures, otherwise you have nothing to show.

  • Brief lesson of Polish nouns and adjectives:

    Kurwa, zajebiste!

  • I found it when i type "hard folk" in search bar lol

  • @gameraltz ...the uploader would call this a kiddie act...if he figured it got him more hits...

  • ...you people who say that you want to be Polish...or you wish you had been more into the polish stuff etc...you ALL IS badly confused...this music is as UN-POLISH...as you can find anywhere on the freaking TUBE...

  • @fredericfranc a USA-based guy teaching everybody what does it mean to be Polish. Yeah...

  • @zapasiewicz ...if you are Polish...and apparently you are...you KNOW that this is not Polish music...even if it is quite good...

  • @fredericfranc If by Polish you mean made by people who are from the Polish nation and having both parents Polish then that isn't Polish music. But if you learn about the history of music and the history of Poland you'll get to know that Polish folklore and culture used to be deeply connected with the folklore and culture of Polish Jews. Therefore, this music, as the motives come from Polish-Jewish folklore and it has been written and performed by Polish people, is Polish as it only can be.

  • @zapasiewicz ...I understand what you are trying to say...but a typical Jewish musical scholar would disagree, probably, with this notion...he would insist on emhasizing the distinctness...the differences here from anything Polish...he would have no use and patience for the idea that any of this was "Polish as it only can be"...because this music was one of the means and devices for preserving the distinctness of this ethnic group for centuries...

  • @fredericfranc this comment shows you don't understand what "deeply connected" mean.

  • @zapasiewicz ...notice that I am quoting a hypothetical Jewish scholar...like are you saying that my scholar is ignorant of actual history?...or he is for some reason refusing to believe the "deep connecting" was ever taking place?...that ever had a chance to take place?...the way Poles and Jews coexisted over there back then, and the way the various ethnic musics sound today...how do you establish this?...is this done out of "desire" for retroactive "political correctness"?...

  • @fredericfranc There are many people who tend to hide cooperation between Poles and Jews back then. I don't know if your scholar is ignorant, but if he's hypothetical, then he doesn't really exist, so it doesn't matter. As far as I'm concerned, right now PC is to name Polish people antisemites who would never like to live with Jews. And I don't want to and sound "ex cathedra", but please read about 1st Commonwealth and the situation of different religious, national and language groups in it...

  • @fredericfranc (because the roots of this music date back to the times of 1st Commonwealth)

  • @zapasiewicz ...can you find any musical DNA in the so called either Polish or Jewish music of today, of the other's influence?...in Chopin's mazurkas, echoes of the distant Jewish influence, or even that collection of Kolberg's?...I am a scientist, a doubting Thomas, I always want proof of everything...and I am very afraid of all this "political correctness" stuff in the cultural area...better to execute somebody innocent with a lethal injection, as we do in the U.S. all the time, than try to..

  • @fredericfranc why search in Chopin's or Kolberg's works if you have an example right here, and you're commenting on it?

  • @zapasiewicz ...notice that you are admitting that you are motivated by PC, desire to establish all that cooperation was going on back then. Does not do anything for the scientist in me...this piece the WVB are playing does not establish anything...does not have any "musical signatures" establishing any "deep connecting" going on BACK THEN...Kolberg and Chopin at least give us a chance at this...

  • @fredericfranc and you're telling me the opposite on the basis of what?

  • @zapasiewicz ...notice the logical implications of your thinking and the concept of the "proof" needed to establish any "deep connecting"...the "deep connecting", if any, took place, like 2 centuries ago, or something...so you can estabish this ONLY by examining "old musical texts", there is no other way, logically...so what the WVB are doing here is of no use for this...we don't have any "old text", musically speaking involved in this situation...but Ch. and Kolberg give us something to work on

  • @fredericfranc This is not the answer to my question. You're going off topic.

  • @zapasiewicz ...well, this is the only topic I was ever trying to address here FROM MY VERY FIRST COMMENT...I am only interested and was, at all times, in this context, in the "musical texts" business...it requires a mental extra effort on my part to figure what YOU ARE DRIVING at, here...I think you are interested in the social-political implications of what the VWB are doing "HERE and NOW"...I disconnect the "cultural" stuff here from any social-political...only care about the "proof"...

  • @fredericfranc still it isn't even a part of an answer. But I can wait. I'm not interested in the social and political part, because I'm a musician myself, so I'm only saying about the musical part. Which is a, let's say, sampled music of Polish Jews, written and performed by Polish people. There's nothing more and nothing less behind it. And if you want to take the opposite site, tell everybody why do you think this music is not Polish. I'm waiting and if there's no answer, the topic's over.

  • @zapasiewicz ...I am trying to follow your reasoning...but you are making no effort to follow mine, that I can see..."sampled music of Polish Jews, written and performed by Polish people"...you should, at least see, that, from my point of view, this does not prove, or establish, anything...it has no capacity, or does not offer any possibility of establishing any "deep connecting" ever...to try to prove any "deep connecting" you are forced to take the "old texts" route, no other way to do it...

  • @fredericfranc so you're trolling. Bye

  • @zapasiewicz ...you have to meet the burden of proof here, that IT IS Polish music...but you can't do it...you don't know how to do it...so you are trying to tell me that I have the burden of proof that IT IS NOT Polish music..but, you see, in logic, YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGATIVE...it is a logical classic we got going here...

  • @fredericfranc I already gave you a lot of arguments. You gave none. It's only some kind of a game you're trying to play on the Internet. I'm not playing

  • @zapasiewicz ...the way these musicians interview here...they object to any "nationality label" being slapped on their work...they are not a "polish" band, they are not a "folkish" band...they will not tolerate any labels of any kind...I rather like the sound of this, I think like this too...so the idea that they are playing "polish" music here, they will not tolerate this..maybe this will help you with your "deep connecting" idea...if you like this idea and want to get it to "perform" you have

  • @fredericfranc "they are not a polish band, they are not a folkish band" I would disagree. Having went to their concert and having heard them introduce their songs and listening to most of the songs, I can definitively say they are a polish, folk band. It does not exclude that the work is influenced by many cultures and by many artists from all over the world. But first and foremost, they want to reintroduce polish folklore to the polish people, to make them proud of their own roots and music

  • I'm not Polish, but this band makes me wish I was.

  • I love this song !! ( from french )

  • I come from Poland and now i´m ashamed of myself - i never liked Polish folk music, and now, i know what i´ve missed...

  • This song is so Amazing, and it Just Gets Me Pumped to Finish the task I need to finish with a Positive smile, and to love life while I am here. :-) Nostrovia !

  • Comment removed

  • I love this song!!!

    It reminds me of india :) not because it has anything to do with india, but because I listened to it over and over and over one time I went to india.

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