we are not like moses: a reply to ProfMTH

[manutdfan4321]

excellent exegesis dude. Im so sorry for your shortness-of-breath syndrome that is so sad lol.

[junjimalaza]

Maybe you need to talk to the Jews first, this scripture in NT for me is inaccurate. It sounds like Paul does not even sound like he is a Jew. Even without Jesus you can receive this as long as you believe in G-d.

[fenoglios]

I'm pretty convinced that the "God of this age" and the "principality and power of the air" are both referring to Satan. Two good books on the issue: God at War and Satan and the Problem of Evil by Gregory A. Boyd. They talk about alot more than just those two passages, but you know what I mean.

I like to think of God's "hardening" like the heat of a kiln. If we decide to be like cheese (mmm), God's heat will soften us, but if we decide to be like potting clay, God's heat will harden us.

[legodesi]

@fenoglios

i miss you.

[fenoglios]

@legodesi

Awww shucks.

I do actually have a video I just recorded. I need to edit it. I'll try to get it up soon.

[Chibling]

you are right I am not like moses... I would not stab my child to death because I was hallucinating that God wanted me to murder... not only am I not like Moses but I am morally superior.

Regardless of bible passage interpretation, the vast majority of people that live on earth or that have EVER lived are not Christan or were not Christian. If God's message was so amazing and convincing you would expect at least 50% of people to believe... but they don't... because it is unbelievable...

[Samuraionthewall]

@Chibling Also, it's plagiarized. They needed other storywriters to supply them with the material so they could incorporate it into their own little cult. :)

[UnBeguiled]

I think you should write down what you want to say, and then read it back to yourself and make sure it makes sense.

This video, like so many of your videos, is just nonsense.

[legodesi]

@UnBeguiled

Like I said to others, feel free to make substantive criticisms of any arguments I make in my videos.

[pulelovesme]

@UnBeguiled his videos apparently make sense to several others. so maybe the problem is your brain's lack of intellectual capacity.. or you're blinded by the mindset that all religion is ridiculous just because you yourself don't believe in God. instead of being a typical ignorant atheist, consider being open-minded and insightful.

[legodesi]

@pulelovesme

it's okay. i don't think he'll reply.

[pumpstations]

Not to be too picky, but if "the word" according to Paul is "veiled" to all that do not believe in Christ. How does one ever become a Christian in the first place? If we are born sinners and our hearts are veiled from the word and/or the word is veiled from our hearts, how could it even be expected? You made a good vid. reply but I consider this a real issue. Unless I have missed something I'm about to look up the verses. Thanks

[legodesi]

@pumpstations

good question; i think the issue is: what sort of unbelief is needed for being "veiled"? i think at some level we are all veiled to God in proportion to how out-of-tune we are to him. and imo, that's partly a result of factors that we inherited, and also factors that we contribue to. in Isaiah and in Paul, one's own active individual turning from God is what causes them to be veiled: Israel turned from knowledge of God, etc. but it's really an open question for the rest of us

[pumpstations]

@legodesi You have hit on the crux of the matter, It seems to be an real Irony. If you don't believe, you never will and if you do but have a doubt, it's taken away. It just doesn't seem the thing to do, especially if you are claiming to be gentle, loving and wanting your word known by everyone. I can understand for the purpose of the story, BUT then that brings up free will. We cant have free will if anyone tinkers at all. Something (similar) to the Grandfather paradox. Or am I off, on that.

[legodesi]

@pumpstations

right, but in my view, the passages in Isaiah or in Corinthians don't speak to this entire issue - isaiah was specifically for the israelites. Paul says in Romans that the gentiles are held responsible for what they know and could respond to. at times, he seems to suggest that while we have a bent away from God, we're given some knowledge of him. i think there's a lot of room to debate how this applies.

[pumpstations]

@legodesi Ooo I see what your saying. This does leave a great deal of room for interpretation. I have only recently become skeptical of the bible. I was raised Baptist, and of course all of our views were right and everyone else were wrong on some level. I now know that could not be. I am now questioning all! For my own conscience. Not just Christianity, but all religion. Thanks.

[wimsweden]

@legodesi

"Paul says in Romans that the gentiles are held responsible for what they know and could respond to.

What do you mean by "know"? Most Christians have read or heard biblical stories, but have many ways of "knowing" them. In some instances the knowledge some Christians draw from the text would be closer to what an atheist holds of these texts or of the world than other Christians'. Also, what do you mean by "could respond to"?

[HiltownJoe]

I don't understand why to dislike this.

It's a really well understandable reply.

Especially since ProfMTH asked for an explaination of a personal viewpoint, this is probably the best answer I could imagine.

[legodesi]

@HiltownJoe thanks! in light of the commenters who strongly disagree, yours was a most encouraging reply.

[tgeorge95]

im liking the artwork in the back.

[DaGingerHeadMan]

So you're telling us that the magic sky fairies are real, and we should believe because they love us? Unless we don't believe the magic God nonsense of course. Then we'll be sorry, right Stooge?

[mcrd2001]

Banana Phone!

[MomoTheBellyDancer]

The Bible is a bunch of fairy tales. Get over it already.

[DaGingerHeadMan]

As both a Philosopher and a Christian, reality escapes you my deluded friend. Your videos on Philosophy and Dualism and the like are laughable to say the least. I guess some people don't require evidence for a belief in their fairytales. Moses and the Exodus story is not historically based. There's no evidence this Moses even lived. Same for Jesus or Yeshua if you like.

[skepticnyc]

@DaGingerHeadMan

There's no evidence for Jesus?

When you say this, what do you base this assertion on?

Most ancient historians agree there was a historical Jesus. The trinity is a later Christian embellishment. But to say that Jesus never existed, when there is more evidence for Jesus than ANY other person in ancient history is simply wrong.

Ancient sources:

Tacitus-Roman historian/senator

Josephus-Jewish historian

Gospels-unknown

You don't have to make this outrageous claim 2b an atheist.

[Samuraionthewall]

1) Tacitus was born after the... cruci-fiction of "Jesus", furthermore, he cites no sources for his mention of a "Christos" whose actual name apparently eluded him.

2) Josephus was born years after the cruci-fiction of "Jesus" and wrote his story after the first gospels had been published and

3) the gospels were written at best 40 years after the cruci-fiction of "Jesus", none of which by contemporaries.

4) all other alleged "sources" are also hearsay.

=> The Jesus story - most likely a myth.

[skepticnyc]

@Samuraionthewall

All your claims don't make the historical Jesus a myth at all.

Simply ask any ancient historian on their methodology or epistemology.

At any rate check out this vid

watch?v=yRx0N4GF0AY

Im an atheist, and in all honesty people making claims that the historical Jesus never existed is ridiculous. All I can say is do the research.

[Samuraionthewall]

@skepticnyc "when there is more evidence for Jesus than ANY other person in ancient history"

Please stop bullshitting people.

[DaGingerHeadMan]

@skepticnyc As a Christian you're lost in the legends on magic Jesus. There is no first-hand historical evidence for this Jesus which anyone wrote down at the time. Tacitus, Josephus, And the Apostles wrote about the alleged Jesus long after his alleged death. Then the legends started getting more far fetched. Indeed there were gnostic writing of Jesus. These showed him as just a man. These never made it to the bible canon because a "regular" man doesn't make a religion. Lies of magic are needed

[skepticnyc]

@DaGingerHeadMan

We live in an age of technology, and feel people want the same amount of evidence now than of ancient history.

Your only reason to think, from what I read, that Jesus is a myth is that people wrote about him after his death. That doesn't make anyone a myth.

Anyway, ask any real ancient historian (a prof.) about the issue.

watch?v=yRx0N4GF0AY

[DaGingerHeadMan]

@skepticnyc "Your only reason to think, from what I read, that Jesus is a myth is that people wrote about him after his death. That doesn't make anyone a myth."

------------------------------­---------

Well that's the very definition of a myth, isn't now? And the second-hand accounts for Jesus written about and changed over 2 thousand years wouldn't stand up in a court of law. Your argument without evidence is also know as an argument from ignorance. It's a logical fallacy. Google that term.

[skepticnyc]

@DaGingerHeadMan

Arguments for Jesus being a myth:

1-all accounts are after his death

2-it wouldn't stand in a court of law.

1 This is a non sequitur (I know you are familiar w logical fallacies). 1 does NOT mean anyone is a myth. (myth:an imaginary or fictitious thing or person)

2 Court of law for what? To prove his divinity? I agree. But we do have a "court of law" for deciding historicity.

It's called ancient historians...and all serious historians agree.

watch?v=yRx0N4GF0AY

[skepticnyc]

@DaGingerHeadMan

I'm not a Christian.

I'm an atheist.

[DaGingerHeadMan]

@skepticnyc My mistake! I responded to the wrong user, sorry. Go in peace my clear thinking friend.

[Samuraionthewall]

@DaGingerHeadMan Well, either skepticnyc is one of those "I'm an atheist and therefore my bullshit arguments cannot be refuted by atheists"-Christians or he's really *just* a dumb troll.

[legodesi]

@DaGingerHeadMan

GingerHeadMan, feel free to pose substantive criticisms of any of my arguments. i'm particularly interested in what you'd think of my argments concerning dualism.

[thwoolfe]

@legodesi:

as concerning Jesus, there is no single (nonbiblical) contemporary source.

there are no contemporary sources at all.

if you say there is: list it.

as Moses: there is only the bible reporting of Moses.

No contemporary nonbiblical source. again: prove it, if you say there are sources.

There are some biblical figures which really have existed as far as we can tell.

the evalusation of this persons may differ from inside and from outside the bible.

i.e. Omri was honoured by sumerians

[ProfMTH]

Sorry for this 2d comment. I left something out. I *did* push an argument for the "God of this world" passage in my "Failure by Divine Design" video--namely, Hartley's argument. I didn't push any argument in the poll video because I wanted to get Christians just to offer *their* takes on the 4 passages. "The G/god of this world" passage is the one that generates the most controversy, so it will likely be the focus when I get back to this.

[ProfMTH]

Thanks for the response. I'm going to follow up on the responses I've gotten in the near future--or near-ish future (once the dust of the new semester settles). Nicely done.

[SisyphusRedeemed]

Nice reply. I'm curious if Prof will speak to it.

[aaronk1994]

Great video man.

[FluidDeconstructor]

Why are people still talking about bible nonsense?

Seriously, listen to yourselves...

[WayOfTheBastard]

@FluidDeconstructor Why are you commenting on it, listen to yourself...

[floydstinkyboy]

@WayOfTheBastard still talking about it because actually being surrounded by believers in demons and angels and prophets is scarier than trying to imagine we are surrounded by actual demons and angels and prophets.

[AbusiveAntitheist]

@WayOfTheBastard hahaha

[GallusSapien]

@FluidDeconstructor Thats not a rebuttal.

[floydstinkyboy]

@FluidDeconstructor still talking about it because actually being surrounded by believers in demons and angels and prophets is scarier than trying to imagine we are surrounded by actual demons and angels and prophets.

[legodesi]

@FluidDeconstructor

FluidDeconstructor, if you find it nonsense and if you're subscribed to me, please unsubscribe.

[dsdougharty]

@legodesi You are posting on a public forum not only the subscribed to you will see this vid. You enter a conversation then complain when people have something to say. Wether or not his comment was constructive your was just whiney.

[legodesi]

@dsdougharty

I complain when people have precisely nothing constructive to say; that his comment, and yours, is not constructive at all, justifies me asking him not to watch my videos.

[dsdougharty]

@legodesi I conceded his comment wasn't constructive but nothing justifies you asking him to not watch your videos if you post in a PUBLIC forum. You want to keep it private please do so. For the record my comments though not nice were meant to be constructive.

[LetReasonPrevail1]

Oh, come on. It's quite fun to engage theists with regards to their notions of how to interpret their make-believe reality.

I mean, literally anything goes.

You don't have to tie anything you say to any aspect of actual reality. It's all bullshit.

Step #1 is to begin your search for truth by assuming that which you must in fact prove

After that, it's an "anything goes" affair.

Now enjoy the ride & be sure to take a big wiff of all the theistic cow patties.

That shit be stanky!

[WayOfTheBastard]

Way to not link prof's video in the crotch bar Lego =P On a side note, what are you thoughts on theological modernism?

[Phantominfernox]

@WayOfTheBastard

The link is in the response section. There's no need to be condescending.

[WayOfTheBastard]

@Phantominfernox Ahh, I was just teasing lego. Lego knows I've got his back 110%.

[legodesi]

@WayOfTheBastard

i got your back too!

[GallusSapien]

@WayOfTheBastard His video is in the video responses bar where it says this video is a response to: A poll for christians

[WayOfTheBastard]

@GallusSapien Yeah, it wasn't there when I made the comment, and I was teasing... moving forward... I want lego to make a video on theological modernism, assuming he has any interest in the topic. I'd love to watch that.

[legodesi]

@WayOfTheBastard

yeahh i'm too lazy to put it up, bite me. if by modernism, you mean something akin to theological liberalism, well i don't consider myself a theological liberal; i take Jesus as he presented in the gospels to be the historical Jesus, so i'm not in the same project as a lot of those guys are in.

[thunderbolt94]

I saw Prof's video when it was released and considered making a response. You response better than anything I would've said.

[legodesi]

@thunderbolt94

heh no, us lit. majors do everything better in general.

[SephieRothe]

@legodesi As a math major, I object.

[legodesi]

@SephieRothe

okay okay.